*No* *trinitarian* *doctrine* is *explicitly* *taught* in the *Old Testament.* Sophisticated trinitarians grant this, holding that the doctrine was revealed by God only later, in New Testament times (c.50-c.100) and/or in the Patristic era (c. 100-800). They usually also add, though, that with hindsight, we can see that a number of texts either portray or forshadow the co-working of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. For example, in Genesis 18, Yahweh appears to Abraham as three men, and the text has often been read as though the men spoke as one, with one voice. What is this, they urge, if not an appearance of, or even a triple temporary incarnation of the three persons within God's nature? (Other interpretations identify Yahweh with one of the men, the one who stays behind while the others travel to Sodom in Genesis 19.) In numerous other passages, many Christian readers hold, the preincarnate Son of God is mentioned, or even appears in bodily form to do the bidding of his Father, and is (so they believe) sometimes called the “angel of the Lord”. Some have even identified the preincarnate Christ as Michael, protecting angel over Israel mentioned in the books of Daniel, Jude, and Revelation. And in several passages, Yahweh refers to himself, or is referred to using plural terms. Non-trinitarians usually read this as a plural of majesty, a form of speech which occurs in many languages, or a conversation between God and angels, while trinitarians often read this as a conversation between the persons of the Trinity. In sum, Christians read the Old Testament through the lens of the New. For example, the former speaks of God as working by his “word”, “wisdom”, or “spirit”. Some New Testament passages call Jesus Christ the word and wisdom of God, and in the Gospel of John, Jesus talks about the sending of another comforter or helper, the “Holy Spirit”. Thus, some Christians claim the door was open to positing two divine intelligent agents in addition to “the Father”, by, through, or in whom the Father acts, one of whom was incarnated in the man Jesus. In opposition, other Christian readers have taken these passages to involve anthropomorphization of divine attributes, urging that Greek speculations unfortunately encouraged the aforementioned hypostasizations. The *New* *Testament* contains *no* *explicit* *trinitarian* *doctrine.* However, many Christian theologians, apologists, and philosophers hold that the doctrine can be inferred from what the New Testament does teach about God. But how may it be inferred? Is the inference deductive, or is it an inference to the best explanation? And is it based on what is implicitly taught there, or on what is merely assumed there? Many Christian theologians and apologists seem to hold it is a deductive inference. In contrast, other Christians admit that their preferred doctrine of the Trinity not only (1) can't be inferred from the Bible alone, but also (2) that there's inadequate or no evidence for it there, and even (3) that what is taught in the Bible is incompatible with the doctrine. These Christians believe the doctrine solely on the authority of later doctrinal pronouncements of the True Christian Church (typically one of: the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox tradition, or the mainstream of the Christian tradition, broadly understood). Some Catholic apologists have argued that this doctrine shows the necessity of the teaching authority of the Church, this doctrine being constitutive of Christianity but underivable from the Bible apart from the Church's guidance in interpreting it. This stance is not popular among Christians who are neither Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox. (2) would be the main sticking point, although some groups deny all three. Many Christian apologists argue that the doctrine of the Trinity is “biblical” (i.e. either it is implicitly taught there, or it is the best explanation of what is taught there) using three sorts of arguments. They begin by claiming that the Father of Jesus Christ is the one true God taught in the Old Testament. They then argue that given what the Bible teaches about Christ and the Holy Spirit, they must be “fully divine” as well. Thus, we must, as it were, “move them within” the nature of the one God. Therefore, there are three fully divine persons “in God”. While this may be paradoxical, it is argued that this is what God has revealed to humankind through the Bible.
Hello Even scholars point out * NET Bible Many Christian theologians interpret it as an early hint of plurality within the Godhead, but this view imposes later trinitarian concepts on the ancient text. In its ancient Israelite context the plural is most naturally understood as referring to God and his heavenly court (see 1 Kgs 22:19-22; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-6; Isa 6:1-8). “Christians have traditionally seen this verse as adumbrating the Trinity. It is now universally admitted that this was not what the plural meant to the original author.” Wenham, G. J. (1987). Genesis 1-15 (Vol. 1, p. 27). Dallas: Word, Incorporated. God is a single HE where are all the verses of people referring to God as “they”??
Since everyone seems to be putting in their two cents about the Trinity, I say that I believe in the Father, the son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. I also believe they are all one in the same. So I guess you could say I do believe in the "Trinity", but I don't much like the term. The term itself is not biblical, it is theology jargon and should always be viewed as such and not seen as doctrine like most try and push it. I also think the term trinity isn't even a could word to describe the Godhead in a proper way. The word gives a visual interpretation in the mind of the relationship between the parts of the Godhead that aren't so. It also ends up as a stumbling point for people because it blurs the line of monotheism more then it needs to in my opinion.
There is plenty of biblical support for the existence of the trinity. I agree with what you are saying in this video. If you are a good Christian you believe in the trinity. If you call yourself a Christian and don't believe in the trinity, you are at best a gnostic and at worse a heretic. I mean that in the nicest way possible. Creation in the trinity is how the Bible should be understood, so I like the way you think. This was a good message. Now I will go onto cite from Scripture support for the trinity. To quote from one of my favorite websites: www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html """ 1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:v4; 1 Corinthians 8:v4; Galatians 3:v20; 1 Timothy 2:v5). " 2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:v1, 26; 3:v22; 11:v7; Isaiah 6:v8, 48:v16, 61:v1; Matthew 3:v16-17, 28:v19; 2 Corinthians 13:v14). In Genesis 1:v1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:v26, 3:v22, 11:v7 and Isaiah 6:v8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity. " In Isaiah 48:v16 and 61:v1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:v1 to Luke 4:v14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:v16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:v19 and 2 Corinthians 13:v14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity. " 3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:v24; Hosea 1:v4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:v7, 12; Proverbs 30:v2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:v18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:v10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:v6-7; Hebrews 1:v8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:v16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity-the Father. " 4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:v27; Romans 1:v7; 1 Peter 1:v2). The Son is God (John 1:v1, 14; Romans 9:v5; Colossians 2:v9; Hebrews 1:v8; 1 John 5:v20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:v3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:v16). " 5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:v42, John 5:v36, John 20:v21, and 1 John 4:v14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:v16, 14:v26, 15:v26, 16:v7, and especially John 16:v13-14. " 6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:v6; Revelation 4:v11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:v1); salvation (John 3:v16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:v17; 14:v10). The Father initiates all of these things. """ So those people that claim to be Christian, but don't believe in the trinity really need to do their research better (because the evidence isn't on their side). I agree with this ministry, because they know what they are talking about. Amen!! Great video, keep up your good work. God bless!! ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- with love from a nerdy Christian.
good explanation. Jesus created the universe. God can only think about himself because he is perfect and we are not, like ugly. We do not think about microbes on our skin. God can relate to us only because God has three parts. God is pure and can only relate to us through Jesus his pure Son and we can wear a pure Jesus cloak to see God if we believe in Jesus. Jesus can see and relate to us in the meantime because he came to earth to hold a human form.
I must totally and respectfully disagree with this video. I know of countless non-trinitarian folks, like myself, that know, see and sense actions and events that demonstrate both God and Christ are certainly in our daily lives. The Israelites or modern Jews never saw God as a trinity, the Old testament doesn’t teach it. It was conjured up hundreds of years after Jesus. The Bible doesn’t say Jesus has an eternal past. Instead it shows: Jesus was created.. Revelation 3:14 Jesus was born...... Colossians 1:15 Jesus was begotten.. John 3:16 Father greater than Jesus..John 14:28 Father but not Jesus knows the Last day.Mark 13:32 God not Jesus is good....Luke 18:19 Must know God AND Jesus. John 17:3 “Trinity” or “triune” isn’t mentioned in the bible anywhere. See also; John 5:19, and also verse 30 Names and words in the Bible... (Different translations may vary) Yahweh/Jehovah ..... Jesus Most High 44 0 Most Holy One 3 0 Almighty 57 0 Yehweh/Jehovah/God Sabaoth 272 (or of Armies) 0 God of Abraham 21 0 God of Israel 302 0 “Yahweh/Jehovah God” 100s “Jesus God” 0 “Everlasting to everlasting” 4 0 Beginning of creation 0 1 Firstborn 0 6 Begotten 0 5 “God the Father” 18 “God the Son” 0 Trinity-Triune 0 0 There are many people in “mainstream” religions that claim belief in the Trinity doctrine yet personally don’t believe it. Philippians 2:9-11 I am stating this kindly...
And also I am amazed at Christians that rightly don't believe in the apostate Romish Church, and yet trust it for it's dictates about a) the 'Trinity' and b) the Canon...
👉🙏👈👋HI 👋😊 EVERYBODY 👈👉I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE IN A TRINITY 🤔!!👈👉THIS IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRIN!!👈👉 DON'T UNDERSTAND IT EITHER,, IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT ALMOST EVERYONE OF THEM HAS A DIFFERENT WAY OF EXPLAINING THIS (TRINITY)🤔🙏🤔👈
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TRINITY INVOLVED IN CREATION
Amen and amen 🙏🙏🙏🙏
You can't put the trinity on elohim as a meaning, it causes problems later in other passages if you do. js
*No* *trinitarian* *doctrine* is *explicitly* *taught* in the *Old Testament.* Sophisticated trinitarians grant this, holding that the doctrine was revealed by God only later, in New Testament times (c.50-c.100) and/or in the Patristic era (c. 100-800). They usually also add, though, that with hindsight, we can see that a number of texts either portray or forshadow the co-working of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.
For example, in Genesis 18, Yahweh appears to Abraham as three men, and the text has often been read as though the men spoke as one, with one voice. What is this, they urge, if not an appearance of, or even a triple temporary incarnation of the three persons within God's nature? (Other interpretations identify Yahweh with one of the men, the one who stays behind while the others travel to Sodom in Genesis 19.)
In numerous other passages, many Christian readers hold, the preincarnate Son of God is mentioned, or even appears in bodily form to do the bidding of his Father, and is (so they believe) sometimes called the “angel of the Lord”. Some have even identified the preincarnate Christ as Michael, protecting angel over Israel mentioned in the books of Daniel, Jude, and Revelation.
And in several passages, Yahweh refers to himself, or is referred to using plural terms. Non-trinitarians usually read this as a plural of majesty, a form of speech which occurs in many languages, or a conversation between God and angels, while trinitarians often read this as a conversation between the persons of the Trinity.
In sum, Christians read the Old Testament through the lens of the New. For example, the former speaks of God as working by his “word”, “wisdom”, or “spirit”. Some New Testament passages call Jesus Christ the word and wisdom of God, and in the Gospel of John, Jesus talks about the sending of another comforter or helper, the “Holy Spirit”. Thus, some Christians claim the door was open to positing two divine intelligent agents in addition to “the Father”, by, through, or in whom the Father acts, one of whom was incarnated in the man Jesus. In opposition, other Christian readers have taken these passages to involve anthropomorphization of divine attributes, urging that Greek speculations unfortunately encouraged the aforementioned hypostasizations.
The *New* *Testament* contains *no* *explicit* *trinitarian* *doctrine.* However, many Christian theologians, apologists, and philosophers hold that the doctrine can be inferred from what the New Testament does teach about God. But how may it be inferred? Is the inference deductive, or is it an inference to the best explanation? And is it based on what is implicitly taught there, or on what is merely assumed there? Many Christian theologians and apologists seem to hold it is a deductive inference.
In contrast, other Christians admit that their preferred doctrine of the Trinity not only (1) can't be inferred from the Bible alone, but also (2) that there's inadequate or no evidence for it there, and even (3) that what is taught in the Bible is incompatible with the doctrine. These Christians believe the doctrine solely on the authority of later doctrinal pronouncements of the True Christian Church (typically one of: the Catholic Church, the Eastern Orthodox tradition, or the mainstream of the Christian tradition, broadly understood). Some Catholic apologists have argued that this doctrine shows the necessity of the teaching authority of the Church, this doctrine being constitutive of Christianity but underivable from the Bible apart from the Church's guidance in interpreting it. This stance is not popular among Christians who are neither Catholic nor Eastern Orthodox. (2) would be the main sticking point, although some groups deny all three.
Many Christian apologists argue that the doctrine of the Trinity is “biblical” (i.e. either it is implicitly taught there, or it is the best explanation of what is taught there) using three sorts of arguments. They begin by claiming that the Father of Jesus Christ is the one true God taught in the Old Testament. They then argue that given what the Bible teaches about Christ and the Holy Spirit, they must be “fully divine” as well. Thus, we must, as it were, “move them within” the nature of the one God. Therefore, there are three fully divine persons “in God”. While this may be paradoxical, it is argued that this is what God has revealed to humankind through the Bible.
Trinity= 1 What, 3 Who’s ♥️
Hello
Even scholars point out
* NET Bible
Many Christian theologians interpret it as an early hint of plurality within the Godhead, but this view imposes later trinitarian concepts on the ancient text. In its ancient Israelite context the plural is most naturally understood as referring to God and his heavenly court (see 1 Kgs 22:19-22; Job 1:6-12; 2:1-6; Isa 6:1-8).
“Christians have traditionally seen this verse as adumbrating the Trinity. It is now universally admitted that this was not what the plural meant to the original author.”
Wenham, G. J. (1987). Genesis 1-15 (Vol. 1, p. 27). Dallas: Word, Incorporated.
God is a single HE
where are all the verses of people referring to God as “they”??
Since everyone seems to be putting in their two cents about the Trinity, I say that I believe in the Father, the son Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit. I also believe they are all one in the same. So I guess you could say I do believe in the "Trinity", but I don't much like the term. The term itself is not biblical, it is theology jargon and should always be viewed as such and not seen as doctrine like most try and push it. I also think the term trinity isn't even a could word to describe the Godhead in a proper way. The word gives a visual interpretation in the mind of the relationship between the parts of the Godhead that aren't so. It also ends up as a stumbling point for people because it blurs the line of monotheism more then it needs to in my opinion.
There is plenty of biblical support for the existence of the trinity. I agree with what you are saying in this video. If you are a good Christian you believe in the trinity. If you call yourself a Christian and don't believe in the trinity, you are at best a gnostic and at worse a heretic. I mean that in the nicest way possible. Creation in the trinity is how the Bible should be understood, so I like the way you think. This was a good message. Now I will go onto cite from Scripture support for the trinity.
To quote from one of my favorite websites: www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
""" 1) There is one God (Deuteronomy 6:v4; 1 Corinthians 8:v4; Galatians 3:v20; 1 Timothy 2:v5).
" 2) The Trinity consists of three Persons (Genesis 1:v1, 26; 3:v22; 11:v7; Isaiah 6:v8, 48:v16, 61:v1; Matthew 3:v16-17, 28:v19; 2 Corinthians 13:v14). In Genesis 1:v1, the Hebrew plural noun "Elohim" is used. In Genesis 1:v26, 3:v22, 11:v7 and Isaiah 6:v8, the plural pronoun for “us” is used. The word "Elohim" and the pronoun “us” are plural forms, definitely referring in the Hebrew language to more than two. While this is not an explicit argument for the Trinity, it does denote the aspect of plurality in God. The Hebrew word for "God," "Elohim," definitely allows for the Trinity.
" In Isaiah 48:v16 and 61:v1, the Son is speaking while making reference to the Father and the Holy Spirit. Compare Isaiah 61:v1 to Luke 4:v14-19 to see that it is the Son speaking. Matthew 3:v16-17 describes the event of Jesus' baptism. Seen in this passage is God the Holy Spirit descending on God the Son while God the Father proclaims His pleasure in the Son. Matthew 28:v19 and 2 Corinthians 13:v14 are examples of three distinct Persons in the Trinity.
" 3) The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:v24; Hosea 1:v4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:v7, 12; Proverbs 30:v2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:v18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:v10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:v6-7; Hebrews 1:v8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:v16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also all the other times in the Gospels where Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity-the Father.
" 4) Each member of the Trinity is God. The Father is God (John 6:v27; Romans 1:v7; 1 Peter 1:v2). The Son is God (John 1:v1, 14; Romans 9:v5; Colossians 2:v9; Hebrews 1:v8; 1 John 5:v20). The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:v3-4; 1 Corinthians 3:v16).
" 5) There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply an area which our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:v42, John 5:v36, John 20:v21, and 1 John 4:v14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:v16, 14:v26, 15:v26, 16:v7, and especially John 16:v13-14.
" 6) The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:v6; Revelation 4:v11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:v1); salvation (John 3:v16-17); and Jesus' human works (John 5:v17; 14:v10). The Father initiates all of these things. """
So those people that claim to be Christian, but don't believe in the trinity really need to do their research better (because the evidence isn't on their side). I agree with this ministry, because they know what they are talking about.
Amen!!
Great video, keep up your good work. God bless!!
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------- with love from a nerdy Christian.
good explanation. Jesus created the universe. God can only think about himself because he is perfect and we are not, like ugly. We do not think about microbes on our skin. God can relate to us only because God has three parts. God is pure and can only relate to us through Jesus his pure Son and we can wear a pure Jesus cloak to see God if we believe in Jesus. Jesus can see and relate to us in the meantime because he came to earth to hold a human form.
I must totally and respectfully disagree with this video. I know of countless non-trinitarian folks, like myself, that know, see and sense actions and events that demonstrate both God and Christ are certainly in our daily lives. The Israelites or modern Jews never saw God as a trinity, the Old testament doesn’t teach it. It was conjured up hundreds of years after Jesus.
The Bible doesn’t say Jesus has an eternal past. Instead it shows:
Jesus was created.. Revelation 3:14
Jesus was born...... Colossians 1:15
Jesus was begotten.. John 3:16
Father greater than Jesus..John 14:28
Father but not Jesus knows the Last day.Mark 13:32
God not Jesus is good....Luke 18:19
Must know God AND Jesus. John 17:3
“Trinity” or “triune” isn’t mentioned in the bible anywhere.
See also; John 5:19, and also verse 30
Names and words in the Bible... (Different translations may vary)
Yahweh/Jehovah ..... Jesus
Most High 44 0
Most Holy One 3 0
Almighty 57 0
Yehweh/Jehovah/God Sabaoth 272 (or of Armies) 0
God of Abraham 21 0
God of Israel 302 0
“Yahweh/Jehovah God” 100s “Jesus God” 0
“Everlasting to everlasting” 4 0
Beginning of creation 0 1
Firstborn 0 6
Begotten 0 5
“God the Father” 18 “God the Son” 0
Trinity-Triune 0 0
There are many people in “mainstream” religions that claim belief in the Trinity doctrine yet personally don’t believe it.
Philippians 2:9-11
I am stating this kindly...
And also I am amazed at Christians that rightly don't believe in the apostate Romish Church, and yet trust it for it's dictates about a) the 'Trinity' and b) the Canon...
👉🙏👈👋HI 👋😊 EVERYBODY 👈👉I ALSO DON'T BELIEVE IN A TRINITY 🤔!!👈👉THIS IS A ROMAN CATHOLIC DOCTRIN!!👈👉 DON'T UNDERSTAND IT EITHER,, IT IS ALSO TRUE THAT ALMOST EVERYONE OF THEM HAS A DIFFERENT WAY OF EXPLAINING THIS (TRINITY)🤔🙏🤔👈
Very poorly presented argument..WildwoodCastle is correct