Hi Everybody, just noticed that around 10m28s into the video I say that Earth permanently eclipses the Sun at L2 point, keeping JWST in shadow. But that's not correct. Earth will eclipse the Sun at that location but not always where JWST meanders. (L2 is a big area in space.) JWST's built-in Sun shade is what will keep it shaded. Thanks to a bunch of folks in the comment thread for noticing that error. -Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Dr. Tyson... I emailed a question to the StarTalk email questionnaire and never got a reply. Just wondering, if I may ask your opinion on changing the units of time going forward in the future. I think my question was pertaining to a recent video you did on how time is relative and the response to Dr. James Gates video you did on "Proving Einstein right." Since planets can become distant planetary rock bodies, such as Pluto being recast from planet to rock body... can we change the unit of a "second" to the Banneker or give some extra homage to the unit measurement of time? Best Regards... -Siray
You were not incorrect Neil. You merely used a word that some people have yet to properly define is all. There remains a level of an eclipse of the sun by Earth at L2 where JWT is located. The center of the sun's disk always has Earth essentially directly in between it and JWT. And since we know that not every eclipse is total, a partial eclipse throughout the entire orbit is still a "permanent eclipse". Just not a full eclipse of which those who mentioned it were thinking. They were more incorrect than you were Neil. For they did not understand that not all eclipses are total eclipses.
But _why_ are L4 and L5 stable? Seems like the gravity from the two bodies (Earth & moon or whatever other pair) would be pulling things at those two spots inwards like a pair of elastic strings.
@@HopDavid I think Neil has no issues admitting any mistakes he's made. In fact he pinned his mistake and explained his mistake: Pinned by StarTalk Neil deGrasse Tyson 1 month ago (edited) Hi Everybody, just noticed that around 10m28s into the video I say that Earth permanently eclipses the Sun at L2 point, keeping JWST in shadow. But that's not correct. Earth will eclipse the Sun at that location but not always where JWST meanders. (L2 is a big area in space.) JWST's built-in Sun shade is what will keep it shaded. Thanks to a bunch of folks in the comment thread for noticing that error. -Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Chuck is such a good other guy to have on the show. He's capable of understanding a lot of the actual science, plus he's really funny with his improv. He doesn't fail to make Neil laugh.
I've seen Mr. Nice go from hardly understanding Dr. deGrass Tyson to keeping up even though he can still be impressed. I've been a fan for years. Comedy and intellect or not exclusive parts of our minds. They both have it all.
Chuck is on fire in this video. He makes such funny comments, he laughs until he cries. I love watching you guys. You two are so Awesome! You both put to such good use your teaching and comedy skills. Thank you!!! ;)
Hello dear Neil and chuck, as a french fan I gotta say, those impressions were… magnifique x) thanks for all the sweet science facts and the sweet jokes always a pleasure to learn something on this channel.
@@thebeast5215 This David is most probably a flat earther or creationist believer, just by looking at his words and his comments on other vids and channels that he's following.
@@waynewynnx7976 He is bar NONE, one of the most uneducated trolls the internet has ever known. You will never find anything factual with anything he says. And absolutely never will any level of education make it through his intentionally think skull which despises objective truth at all cost. He will almost never leave his own comment and will mostly only ever defecate upon other's comments which are based upon undeniable fact. He is a stalker in a sense. If you make the mistake of responding directly to him, he will locate ANY AND ALL of your social media activity in direct effort to attempt to insult and harass with nonsensical ramblings no one capable of critical thought can make sense of. To be honest, I believe that he believes ONLY in opposition, nothing else. He is convinced it grants him a personality. Matters not the topic, he only ever opposes without logical defense of his chosen opposition. He has called airplanes "non-existent". Claimed there is "no oxygen within Earth's atmosphere". And that lizard alien people have taken our brains, but never his. All because he came across a factual post or comment stating otherwise and no other reason whatsoever. It is STRONGLY advised to block him on every social media channel. Sure, it can be fun to poke holes in his nonsense. But that fun is quickly replaced with sheer annoyance, for he NEVER stops once he gets going. If you ignore one of his ridiculous responses, he merely continues tagging while offering increasingly more ignorant responses. And as with ALL internet trolls, he becomes entirely silent when face to face. He ONLY does this when he can falsely believe that his keyboard keeps him protected.
I'm surprised Neil didn't mention the most interesting fact about James Webb's position in L2, and that is it's not put exactly in L2 because it would be in permanent shadow (and it needs sunlight to operate its solar batteries), but that it actually rotates around that L2 point in small circles, so it can strategically catch the sunlight as well.
10:27 Neil is completely wrong on several things here: 1. At L2 the earth does NOT completely eclipse the Sun, the earth disk is smaller than that of the sun, also, the L2 point itself is not stable, it moves. 2. The James Web Telescope is NOT at L2, it orbits L2 as depicted in the diagram at 10:52, and the distance from L2 is so far away that it is NEVER in the shadow of earth, which means that the solar panel will always be able generate maximum power. Also, it doesn't need to be in the earth shade, because it has the 5 layers of sunshield to keep the temperature down on the side that has the dish and the instruments.
I think that his definition of L1 is also wrong. He says a 3:50 that L1 is where the gravity of Earth and Moon are equal (and in opposite direction so they cancel each others). This is an oversimplification because there is gravity at L1. It is defined as a point where Earth gravity is reduced by the Moon gravity thus allowing an orbit with the same period as the Moon orbit. For example, Earth-Moon L1 is at 85% of the Earth-Moon distance. The Moon gravity at L1 is 38% of Earth gravity and consequently the overall gravity is still 100-38 = 62% of Earth-only gravity (so not zero). If you plug 85% of the distance and 62% of the mass in the formula that gives the orbital period then they will cancel each others (e.g. 0.85^3 = 0.62) thus providing a orbit with the same period than the Moon.
He is also wrong when he says that the James Webb telescope was placed at L2 because at that location Earth permanently eclipses the Sun. That would only be true if JW was exactly at L2 but in fact it follows an orbit around L2 that is larger than the Earth-Moon orbit. I would not be surprised if JW was never going through the shadow of Earth. In fact, JW has solar panels so it probably requires sunlight to operate.
I am well pleased by these presentations. They are very informative in an entertaining manner. The fact that very complex ideas are presented in such a way, makes it easier for those of us involved in education.
@@HopDavid Good points, but you're being pretty nit-picky. At L1 the acceleration due to gravity is EXTREMELY low, as is the centrifugal acceleration. So, when you say the Earth's pull is much stronger than the moon's, that is technically correct, but both "pulls" are but the slightest of fractions that one feels near the surface of either body. It's a very, very weak game of tug o' war. As for the JWST's orbit around L2, you're spot on. Indeed, the diameter of the orbit is about the same distance as L2 is from Earth; a fact that I think is lost on most folks. NASA intentionally put the satellite into this L2 orbit to improve it's ability to image in all directions.
Must have a nitpick with Neil saying that the JWST is at L2 and the Earth is blocking the sun's energy from the JWST. But the JWST is orbiting the L2 point and the Earth isn't blocking the sun's energy because the JWST has solar panels for it's electronics.
10:30 I think Dr. Tyson has misspoken here. The James Webb has a giant orbit around L2 that never takes it through Earth's shadow. So the spacecraft is actually permanently in sunlight.
Yes! The main benefit is that JWST does not have to shield its eyes from 3 heat sources (sun, moon, earth) in different parts of the sky. They are all hidden behind the one “visor”, the sun shield.
Friendly amendment(s): JWST is never in the shadow of the earth. It needs sunlight to power its equipement and reaction wheels. Also, JWST doesn’t sit right at L2, it *orbits* it.
Please correct me if I nitpick incorrectly. My understanding is that the JWST is not at L2 but is instead orbiting it. And that orbit is large enough that JWST is actually outside Earths shadow. The reason for that orbit is so that its solar panels (on the hot side of the heat shield) get sun light in order to power the scopes instruments. Being at L2 (even just orbiting that point) is needed because that point is always outside of the Earths and Moons orbit, so JWST can always look outward, without being blinded by light from its two nearest objects.
@@Izaguirre2002 I just made a similar comment. It could be that your comment was deleted by TH-cam, I've noticed that a comment is very likely to be deleted if you used copy/paste.
Lagrange points have come onto my radar a few times, but I haven't had time to get more into it than the surface. I appreciate you scratching the surface and shedding some light. It catalyzed a few ideas lirking in myind! 🤭😄💙
Fantastic tutorial! I am almost 70 (years not months). In the circa late 1970's I attended a few "L-5 Society" meetings at SUNY at Buffalo (Go Bulls.....we did not have a football team back then). I never fully understood the Lagrange points until now. You explained this really cool phenomenon wonderfully and with some good humor too, thank you.
At first I was like ....i don't know how I feel about chuck....and the relationship between these two...but by the day he's growing on me and the chemistry is so on point....i mean...this is brilliant 😇😃
Man f*** all that noise from earlier on in this series this show would be nothing without you thank you for still being here Chuck. you bring a liveliness to the show that Neil would never be able to. hes a great man hes smart and he can hold his own but this show wouldn't be nearly what it is without Chuck Nice. Makes it worth the startalk
Thank you for this video. Not only was it really fun, but it also filled in the blanks in my understanding of Lagrange points. I’m absolutely fascinated with rocket science, but I don’t have a background in physics, so I can’t thank you enough for helping me to fully understand many concepts that I’ve struggled with. Neil and Chuck are hilarious as well!
This is really entertaining.. This show would be so awesome if there is animation provided. Because everyday people like me, need that to match the great explanation by Neil
I hate to burst your bubble, Neil, but the Earth-Moon L1 Lagrange Point is NOT where the gravitational forces of the Earth and Moon are equalized. The L1 point is NOT the same thing as the NEUTRAL POINT ['NP']. The NP between Earth and Moon is found by first taking the mass ratio (Earth / Moon), which is 81.3-to-1, and then taking the DISTANCE from the center of the Earth to the center of the Moon -- which, on average, is 238,900 miles -- so that that distance is divided into 81.3 + 1 = 82.3 units, and taking the SQUARE ROOT of that. Thus, the NP is 238,900 / SQR(82.3) = 238,900 / 9.071934744 = 26,333.96367 miles away from the Moon's center in the direction of the Earth. Conversely, the NP is 212,566.0363 miles away from the Earth's center in the direction of the Moon. The Earth-Moon L1 Lagrange Point, by contrast, is found by taking the Moon's mass [1 unit] and dividing it by 3 times the Earth's mass [3 x 81.3 = 243.9 units], to get 0.0004100041 units; then you take the cube root of that [i.e. take it to the 1/3rd power] to get 0.160052599; then you multiply the Distance of the centers of Earth and Moon [i.e. 238,900 miles, on average] by that to get 38,236.56612 miles. That is the distance from the center of the Moon to the L1 point situated above the lunar nearside location at Sinus Medii -- as well as the distance to the L2 point above the lunar farside in the other direction. You'll notice that the distance from the Moon's center to the Neutral Point is only 26,333.96367 miles from the Moon's center = 25,253.96367 miles above the surface of the Moon's nearside, whereas L1 is 38,236.56612 miles from the Moon's center = 37,156.56612 miles above the Moon's nearside (the Moon's radius being 1,080 miles). The Neutral Point -- where the gravities of the Earth and Moon cancel out -- is a full 11,902.60245 miles away from L1 (on average). Lagrange Points exist only in 2-body systems where the more massive body is 24.95993579 times the mass of the other body. Because the Earth is 81.3 times as massive as the Moon, there are Lagrange Points in the Earth-Moon system. But in 2-body systems where the mass ratio is LESS than ~24.96-to-1 there are no Lagrange Points -- but there IS a Neutral Point (such as the two stars making up the binary Alpha Centauri A and B, where 'A' is about 1.222... times the mass of 'B', nowhere near the 24.96-to-1 ratio required for Lagrange Points. I hate to correct an astrophysicist on this matter, but it makes a difference. There are Moon Landing Hoaxers who believe that the Moon's surface gravity is NOT one-sixth that of Earth because during the approach of one of the Apollo missions to the Moon, Mission Control stated that they were so many miles away from the Moon upon reaching the supposed gravitational boundary separating the Earth and Moon . . . but there was a failure to differentiate L1 from the Neutral Point, which (as I said) are almost 12,000 miles away from each other. By the way, it is my suspicion that the Earth-Moon Neutral Point moves somewhat during New Moon and Full Moon, as the gravitational pull of the Sun has to be taken into account, as also must factor in during Spring Tides.
Aside from the fact that Neil and Chuck are immeasurably entertaining (mad love guys!), this video turned out to be more useful than I expected. I'm the science freak amongst my friends and family. While I've long since understood the LaGrange points, it's sometimes been tricky to visualize certain concepts when they ask me to explain what they see on the news and stuff. Chuck's grasp of everything along the way just knocks it out the park. Y'all really make life easier for me on a regular basis. 😁💖
I should know by now to never take a drink of water during an Explainer Episode! I just had to learn that lesson again. Fortunately, nothing got an ice water shower and I did not choke to death.
I was wondering why we didn't keep JWST at L4 or L5. I'm guessing cause we don't want it to get wacked by random asteroids that fall in the gravitational sink? Also, do solar systems and galaxies have their own level of lagrangian points with other solar systems and galaxies?
This video cries out for more illustrations! It would have been much easier to understand the descriptions of the Lagrange points if you had used pictures for each one, instead of just Neil waving his hands around -- no offense intended, but after all, this is a video! Visual aids would have helped.
You guys need a prime time TV show right now. I would put the money if I would just have it. No doubt about it. Thanks for all the science and the laughs. You are great.
Best ZZ Top voice! LA Grange (with a twist) "Rumors spread round, about this planet now. About space between the planets... You know what I'm talking about. Just let me know, If you wanna go, To that hole out in space, They gotta nice asteroids, A how how how." Love the explainer videos! 😆 sorry it's what I thought of when you was talking about Lagrange points!
02:23 "uhh, so ... it turns out, after we understood what gravity is, and how it worked, primarily through the equations of Isaac Newton ... " Guess what actually causes gravity? Asymmetrical permeative particle fields!!! And just like how the particles we call photons push on a solar sail, asymmetrical permeative particle fields also can push on solid matter. An object creates its own gravitational field by absorbing particle momentum from the background permeative particle fields. The critical piece of logic and reasoning to understand is that an object absorbing particle momentum in this way is BY DEFINITION only reducing its own upward permeative particle fields, leaving its downward permeative particle fields stronger by whatever amount of permeative particle momentum was absorbed. Thus, the magnitude of the object's gravitational field is proportional to the amount of permeative particle momentum it absorbs, and since the amount of permeative particle momentum absorbed is directly proportional to its mass, we suddenly understand exactly why Newton's gravitational equations work the way they do. The stronger downward permeative particle fields around every solid object IS the object's gravitational field, because those particle fields push nearby matter TOWARD the absorbing object. The cause of gravity was literally guaranteed to be particle fields, because particle fields are the only physical element that continuously bridge any two celestial objects. The Law Of Physics is this: Continuous immersion in approximately isometric permeative particle fields automatically causes a gravitational effect. [12-13-2020]
James Webb orbit around L2 was explained in a previous Star Talk. I think its a little much to go into here and not necessary to understanding the topic but y'all is right!
A tiny correction: that telescope that is always in L1 between Earth and the Sun cannot be watching the same side of our planet (or the same house as they joked) because Earth is not tidally locked to the Sun; in other words, it is rotating.
A couple questions: 1. How much gravity do LaGrange Points have? Is there a direct relationship to the strength of that points gravity when compared to the celestial bodies that created it? 2. Are LaGrange Points taken into account when trying to predict the orbits of the planets? 3. Do Lagrange Points create gravitational lensing? Efforts are currently underway to use the suns gravity as a telescope, thanks to the gravitational lensing the sun creates. If these LaGrange Points have the necessary gravity, could they be used the same way as, "Gravity Telescopes", so to speak?
Two of the most brilliant minds in the world today, each in its own way, come together for this show. Sorry Netflix, HBO, Disney+... I'll be watching Star Talk! Magnifique!
That was quite amazing. Caught me an oh wow fact again, as in "oh wow" I didn't know that until just now. So much we don't know and learn if we don't listen. Amazing!
Hey Neil and Chuck, Greetings From India. Isro's Aditya L1 Targeting L1 point. So i want to know about these points. very well explained man. Love From India.❤❤
![PURPEECH - นี่ฉันเองคนที่... (It's me) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/NuhHd0hOOg8/mqdefault.jpg)
Hi Everybody, just noticed that around 10m28s into the video I say that Earth permanently eclipses the Sun at L2 point, keeping JWST in shadow. But that's not correct. Earth will eclipse the Sun at that location but not always where JWST meanders. (L2 is a big area in space.) JWST's built-in Sun shade is what will keep it shaded. Thanks to a bunch of folks in the comment thread for noticing that error. -Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Dr. Tyson... I emailed a question to the StarTalk email questionnaire and never got a reply. Just wondering, if I may ask your opinion on changing the units of time going forward in the future. I think my question was pertaining to a recent video you did on how time is relative and the response to Dr. James Gates video you did on "Proving Einstein right." Since planets can become distant planetary rock bodies, such as Pluto being recast from planet to rock body... can we change the unit of a "second" to the Banneker or give some extra homage to the unit measurement of time? Best Regards...
-Siray
You were not incorrect Neil. You merely used a word that some people have yet to properly define is all.
There remains a level of an eclipse of the sun by Earth at L2 where JWT is located. The center of the sun's disk always has Earth essentially directly in between it and JWT.
And since we know that not every eclipse is total, a partial eclipse throughout the entire orbit is still a "permanent eclipse". Just not a full eclipse of which those who mentioned it were thinking.
They were more incorrect than you were Neil. For they did not understand that not all eclipses are total eclipses.
But _why_ are L4 and L5 stable? Seems like the gravity from the two bodies (Earth & moon or whatever other pair) would be pulling things at those two spots inwards like a pair of elastic strings.
@@HopDavid like what?
@@HopDavid I think Neil has no issues admitting any mistakes he's made. In fact he pinned his mistake and explained his mistake:
Pinned by StarTalk
Neil deGrasse Tyson
1 month ago (edited)
Hi Everybody, just noticed that around 10m28s into the video I say that Earth permanently eclipses the Sun at L2 point, keeping JWST in shadow. But that's not correct. Earth will eclipse the Sun at that location but not always where JWST meanders. (L2 is a big area in space.) JWST's built-in Sun shade is what will keep it shaded. Thanks to a bunch of folks in the comment thread for noticing that error. -Neil deGrasse Tyson.
Chuck is such a good other guy to have on the show. He's capable of understanding a lot of the actual science, plus he's really funny with his improv. He doesn't fail to make Neil laugh.
He's Watson, only funny.
CHUCK IS THE MAN. NOBODY PLAYS THE COMEDIC TIMER BETTER. CHUCK IS ALSO LEARNING WORKING ALONGSIDE DR. TYSON, HE'S VERY SMART, VERY.
When i look at the top & see all the succesful people.. there is NO mexicans 😩I review weed products on my TH-cam channel .. tryna make it out💯..
I've seen Mr. Nice go from hardly understanding Dr. deGrass Tyson to keeping up even though he can still be impressed. I've been a fan for years. Comedy and intellect or not exclusive parts of our minds. They both have it all.
And he's the only one who can interrupt Neil...
Chuck is on fire in this video. He makes such funny comments, he laughs until he cries. I love watching you guys. You two are so Awesome! You both put to such good use your teaching and comedy skills. Thank you!!! ;)
Same bro
The bromance
Hello dear Neil and chuck, as a french fan I gotta say, those impressions were… magnifique x) thanks for all the sweet science facts and the sweet jokes always a pleasure to learn something on this channel.
French fan approved! Thanks for the kind words, glad you enjoyed :)
@Hollister David could you elaborate on these so called false histories?
@@thebeast5215 This David is most probably a flat earther or creationist believer, just by looking at his words and his comments on other vids and channels that he's following.
@@waynewynnx7976
He is bar NONE, one of the most uneducated trolls the internet has ever known. You will never find anything factual with anything he says. And absolutely never will any level of education make it through his intentionally think skull which despises objective truth at all cost.
He will almost never leave his own comment and will mostly only ever defecate upon other's comments which are based upon undeniable fact.
He is a stalker in a sense. If you make the mistake of responding directly to him, he will locate ANY AND ALL of your social media activity in direct effort to attempt to insult and harass with nonsensical ramblings no one capable of critical thought can make sense of.
To be honest, I believe that he believes ONLY in opposition, nothing else. He is convinced it grants him a personality. Matters not the topic, he only ever opposes without logical defense of his chosen opposition.
He has called airplanes "non-existent". Claimed there is "no oxygen within Earth's atmosphere". And that lizard alien people have taken our brains, but never his.
All because he came across a factual post or comment stating otherwise and no other reason whatsoever.
It is STRONGLY advised to block him on every social media channel. Sure, it can be fun to poke holes in his nonsense. But that fun is quickly replaced with sheer annoyance, for he NEVER stops once he gets going.
If you ignore one of his ridiculous responses, he merely continues tagging while offering increasingly more ignorant responses.
And as with ALL internet trolls, he becomes entirely silent when face to face. He ONLY does this when he can falsely believe that his keyboard keeps him protected.
I'm surprised Neil didn't mention the most interesting fact about James Webb's position in L2, and that is it's not put exactly in L2 because it would be in permanent shadow (and it needs sunlight to operate its solar batteries), but that it actually rotates around that L2 point in small circles, so it can strategically catch the sunlight as well.
10:27 Neil is completely wrong on several things here:
1. At L2 the earth does NOT completely eclipse the Sun, the earth disk is smaller than that of the sun, also, the L2 point itself is not stable, it moves.
2. The James Web Telescope is NOT at L2, it orbits L2 as depicted in the diagram at 10:52, and the distance from L2 is so far away that it is NEVER in the shadow of earth, which means that the solar panel will always be able generate maximum power. Also, it doesn't need to be in the earth shade, because it has the 5 layers of sunshield to keep the temperature down on the side that has the dish and the instruments.
You are right Sir.
I think that his definition of L1 is also wrong. He says a 3:50 that L1 is where the gravity of Earth and Moon are equal (and in opposite direction so they cancel each others). This is an oversimplification because there is gravity at L1. It is defined as a point where Earth gravity is reduced by the Moon gravity thus allowing an orbit with the same period as the Moon orbit. For example, Earth-Moon L1 is at 85% of the Earth-Moon distance. The Moon gravity at L1 is 38% of Earth gravity and consequently the overall gravity is still 100-38 = 62% of Earth-only gravity (so not zero). If you plug 85% of the distance and 62% of the mass in the formula that gives the orbital period then they will cancel each others (e.g. 0.85^3 = 0.62) thus providing a orbit with the same period than the Moon.
He is also wrong when he says that the James Webb telescope was placed at L2 because at that location Earth permanently eclipses the Sun. That would only be true if JW was exactly at L2 but in fact it follows an orbit around L2 that is larger than the Earth-Moon orbit. I would not be surprised if JW was never going through the shadow of Earth. In fact, JW has solar panels so it probably requires sunlight to operate.
And Lagrange was italian, he was born in Turin
You're totally right of course, however I think that is the flavour of this channel. If you want something more substantial PBS Spacetime is the one
Ah yes finally- Space razors that's what I was looking for more then 20 years
Now my life is complete
Lol bro
it really is the best a man can get.
I love this show, it's the perfect blend of knowledge and humor! I love Neil's explanations and Chuck is just so fun 🤣
I am well pleased by these presentations. They are very informative in an entertaining manner. The fact that very complex ideas are presented in such a way, makes it easier for those of us involved in education.
@@HopDavid
I do not use the information, just the humour.
@@HopDavid Please explain. What information is incorrect?
We're glad you enjoy it! Cheers to you, fellow educator.
Agreed
@@HopDavid Good points, but you're being pretty nit-picky. At L1 the acceleration due to gravity is EXTREMELY low, as is the centrifugal acceleration. So, when you say the Earth's pull is much stronger than the moon's, that is technically correct, but both "pulls" are but the slightest of fractions that one feels near the surface of either body. It's a very, very weak game of tug o' war. As for the JWST's orbit around L2, you're spot on. Indeed, the diameter of the orbit is about the same distance as L2 is from Earth; a fact that I think is lost on most folks. NASA intentionally put the satellite into this L2 orbit to improve it's ability to image in all directions.
Must have a nitpick with Neil saying that the JWST is at L2 and the Earth is blocking the sun's energy from the JWST. But the JWST is orbiting the L2 point and the Earth isn't blocking the sun's energy because the JWST has solar panels for it's electronics.
10:30 I think Dr. Tyson has misspoken here. The James Webb has a giant orbit around L2 that never takes it through Earth's shadow. So the spacecraft is actually permanently in sunlight.
Yes Sir.
yeah otherwise there would be no reason for the solar panels or tennis court sized sun shield.
Thank you, I was looking for this comment
Came to the comments to say this, happy to see you’ve done my work for me. I expected better from you, Dr. Neil!
Yes! The main benefit is that JWST does not have to shield its eyes from 3 heat sources (sun, moon, earth) in different parts of the sky. They are all hidden behind the one “visor”, the sun shield.
Friendly amendment(s): JWST is never in the shadow of the earth. It needs sunlight to power its equipement and reaction wheels. Also, JWST doesn’t sit right at L2, it *orbits* it.
Do you think it's time to reinstate the L5 society?
Absolutely !!!
As long as it's not controlled by corporate interests...
Help heal the world first before leaving, please 🙏❤🌍🌌
Hahaha. I enjoy jumping up and down and burgers and milkshakes too much.
Only if I can join too!!!
This was brilliant, I always had a hard time understanding L2
Please correct me if I nitpick incorrectly. My understanding is that the JWST is not at L2 but is instead orbiting it. And that orbit is large enough that JWST is actually outside Earths shadow. The reason for that orbit is so that its solar panels (on the hot side of the heat shield) get sun light in order to power the scopes instruments. Being at L2 (even just orbiting that point) is needed because that point is always outside of the Earths and Moons orbit, so JWST can always look outward, without being blinded by light from its two nearest objects.
Right, and my comment was deleted as soon as I pointed that out.
@@Izaguirre2002 I just made a similar comment. It could be that your comment was deleted by TH-cam, I've noticed that a comment is very likely to be deleted if you used copy/paste.
That's right! That was a mistake. The spacecraft is actually permanently in sunlight!
@@Gerard1971 I stand corrected, it had link to a NASA blog talking about the solar array deployment.
@@HopDavid Yes, it had a link to a nasa blog talking about the solar array deployment.
I love Dr. Tyson's laugh, it's so fun and deep, and really conveys his genuine amusement, and pleasure. It's definitely infectious!
That moment when Chuck understands something and Neil is pleased
I keep watching because this channel respects intellectualism enough to add the comma in the thumbnail title.
Chuck must be the only comedian who always crys and sheds tears for his own jokes.
2 minute add in beginning is disrespectful of everyone's time. Put it at the end. Dr Tyson is amazing
Awesome Lord Chuck. A perfect reference to an '80s card game! And thank you for giving us an understandable explanation of the LaGrange points.
Lagrange points have come onto my radar a few times, but I haven't had time to get more into it than the surface. I appreciate you scratching the surface and shedding some light. It catalyzed a few ideas lirking in myind! 🤭😄💙
Always a fantastic and hilarious way of learning things with these two. Love them both.
So glad you enjoy!
Fantastic tutorial! I am almost 70 (years not months). In the circa late 1970's I attended a few "L-5 Society" meetings at SUNY at Buffalo (Go Bulls.....we did not have a football team back then). I never fully understood the Lagrange points until now. You explained this really cool phenomenon wonderfully and with some good humor too, thank you.
At first I was like ....i don't know how I feel about chuck....and the relationship between these two...but by the day he's growing on me and the chemistry is so on point....i mean...this is brilliant 😇😃
Man f*** all that noise from earlier on in this series this show would be nothing without you thank you for still being here Chuck. you bring a liveliness to the show that Neil would never be able to. hes a great man hes smart and he can hold his own but this show wouldn't be nearly what it is without Chuck Nice. Makes it worth the startalk
@@HopDavid fair point. Also why i have more respect for chuck. He knows where he stands on all this so he only goes for a reach when a joke is there
"lets think up a few things"
its the little phrases like these that might go unnoticed to a lot of people that i love so much neil
I’m so glad that there weren’t any illustrations in this video because you might’ve actually explained something !
Now see, I thought I understood Lagrange points until Tyson started showing off. Thanks Neil for keeping me in check.
Great video guys! Can you do another video on how JWST is not stationery at L2 but is orbiting it? Thanks
They both smoked a big fat j before recording.
1:54 The first thing that popped in my mind is *"Have you ever heard of Among us Gregory?"*
*sorry, can't help it.*
Chuck, The only guy that can convince me to change to a new shaving blade.
You guys are my sanity! Pure and simple. Thank you!
Like the little graphic of the Lagrange points the editor added in
Thank you for this video. Not only was it really fun, but it also filled in the blanks in my understanding of Lagrange points. I’m absolutely fascinated with rocket science, but I don’t have a background in physics, so I can’t thank you enough for helping me to fully understand many concepts that I’ve struggled with. Neil and Chuck are hilarious as well!
Lord Chuck is half of the reason I look forward to these video's.
Whats the other half?
Just learned about the L points during the JW telescope and just can't get enough of em
Another year of Startalk and Chuck'll be ready for his PhD viva
I’ve been waiting for this explainer since the launch of James Webb! Definitely helps
I don't even skip the paid advertisements.. That's how much love I got for startalk
Not super keen on the commercial at the beginning
not at all
Well, I'm French (living in Ireland) and I won't send you any hate mail, don't worry. Great video, as per usual. Keep them coming.
The culinary analogy checks out. There are "Lagrange points" on the tongue in regards to taste sensitivity.
I have no idea why I come here, For science or for Comedy, Both are exceptional.
Why not both!
I’m French and Chuck’s caricatural French accent kills me everytime 😂😂😂
Yes! Approved by a French fan. Thank you!
when you laugh hard enough to bring tears... ALWAYS a great feeling!
This is really entertaining..
This show would be so awesome if there is animation provided. Because everyday people like me, need that to match the great explanation by Neil
I hate to burst your bubble, Neil, but the Earth-Moon L1 Lagrange Point is NOT where the gravitational forces of the Earth and Moon are equalized. The L1 point is NOT the same thing as the NEUTRAL POINT ['NP'].
The NP between Earth and Moon is found by first taking the mass ratio (Earth / Moon), which is 81.3-to-1, and then taking the DISTANCE from the center of the Earth to the center of the Moon -- which, on average, is 238,900 miles -- so that that distance is divided into 81.3 + 1 = 82.3 units, and taking the SQUARE ROOT of that. Thus, the NP is 238,900 / SQR(82.3) = 238,900 / 9.071934744 = 26,333.96367 miles away from the Moon's center in the direction of the Earth. Conversely, the NP is 212,566.0363 miles away from the Earth's center in the direction of the Moon.
The Earth-Moon L1 Lagrange Point, by contrast, is found by taking the Moon's mass [1 unit] and dividing it by 3 times the Earth's mass [3 x 81.3 = 243.9 units], to get 0.0004100041 units; then you take the cube root of that [i.e. take it to the 1/3rd power] to get 0.160052599; then you multiply the Distance of the centers of Earth and Moon [i.e. 238,900 miles, on average] by that to get 38,236.56612 miles. That is the distance from the center of the Moon to the L1 point situated above the lunar nearside location at Sinus Medii -- as well as the distance to the L2 point above the lunar farside in the other direction.
You'll notice that the distance from the Moon's center to the Neutral Point is only 26,333.96367 miles from the Moon's center = 25,253.96367 miles above the surface of the Moon's nearside, whereas L1 is 38,236.56612 miles from the Moon's center = 37,156.56612 miles above the Moon's nearside (the Moon's radius being 1,080 miles). The Neutral Point -- where the gravities of the Earth and Moon cancel out -- is a full 11,902.60245 miles away from L1 (on average).
Lagrange Points exist only in 2-body systems where the more massive body is 24.95993579 times the mass of the other body. Because the Earth is 81.3 times as massive as the Moon, there are Lagrange Points in the Earth-Moon system. But in 2-body systems where the mass ratio is LESS than ~24.96-to-1 there are no Lagrange Points -- but there IS a Neutral Point (such as the two stars making up the binary Alpha Centauri A and B, where 'A' is about 1.222... times the mass of 'B', nowhere near the 24.96-to-1 ratio required for Lagrange Points.
I hate to correct an astrophysicist on this matter, but it makes a difference. There are Moon Landing Hoaxers who believe that the Moon's surface gravity is NOT one-sixth that of Earth because during the approach of one of the Apollo missions to the Moon, Mission Control stated that they were so many miles away from the Moon upon reaching the supposed gravitational boundary separating the Earth and Moon . . . but there was a failure to differentiate L1 from the Neutral Point, which (as I said) are almost 12,000 miles away from each other.
By the way, it is my suspicion that the Earth-Moon Neutral Point moves somewhat during New Moon and Full Moon, as the gravitational pull of the Sun has to be taken into account, as also must factor in during Spring Tides.
Can you have an episode on what it means for humans to live in higher dimensions based on the String theory?
Chuck’s funny comments in between makes learning fun…
Aside from the fact that Neil and Chuck are immeasurably entertaining (mad love guys!), this video turned out to be more useful than I expected. I'm the science freak amongst my friends and family. While I've long since understood the LaGrange points, it's sometimes been tricky to visualize certain concepts when they ask me to explain what they see on the news and stuff. Chuck's grasp of everything along the way just knocks it out the park. Y'all really make life easier for me on a regular basis. 😁💖
Oh man, I love Neil's laugh and Chuck's face when he is laughing :D
I should know by now to never take a drink of water during an Explainer Episode! I just had to learn that lesson again. Fortunately, nothing got an ice water shower and I did not choke to death.
Thanks for explaining.
I am overloaded with Science in my brains. Damn, how many more things can I learn.
Maybe my favorite TH-cam thumbnail of all time as an Amateur Astronomer.
This was one of the best videos! Interesting how those areas can trap asteroids and hold them there!
A Lagrange Point is a location where you listen to ZZTop. L4 and L5 is where they keep rouge horses... because they're stable.
I've figuered out details of Lagrage points. Thaks Neil and Chuck. :)
Best 16 minutes of my life
Best Lagrange Points explanation ever.
@@HopDavid Well, he oversimplified it AF that might be way
@@HopDavid ook
I've loved this channel for a long time now, and how it's so positive and has zero negativity.
seems like you two are having way too much fun....thank you
i ain’t buying hansen no time soon but thanks to chuck it’s on my radar
Damn Chuck was higher than me this time. So excited! I love y’all!
Chuck is the best co-host ever!
Such a good bunch of actors! Love it!
I was wondering why we didn't keep JWST at L4 or L5. I'm guessing cause we don't want it to get wacked by random asteroids that fall in the gravitational sink?
Also, do solar systems and galaxies have their own level of lagrangian points with other solar systems and galaxies?
15 seconds into the show you had me wanting to buy a new razor!
Our beloved Lucy is on it's long voyage to those Trojans.
And somebody call fireservices, Chuck's on fire
This video cries out for more illustrations! It would have been much easier to understand the descriptions of the Lagrange points if you had used pictures for each one, instead of just Neil waving his hands around -- no offense intended, but after all, this is a video! Visual aids would have helped.
Science, humor, and French accent! A perfect combination!
You guys need a prime time TV show right now. I would put the money if I would just have it. No doubt about it.
Thanks for all the science and the laughs. You are great.
Best ZZ Top voice! LA Grange (with a twist)
"Rumors spread round, about this planet now.
About space between the planets...
You know what I'm talking about.
Just let me know,
If you wanna go,
To that hole out in space,
They gotta nice asteroids,
A how how how."
Love the explainer videos!
😆 sorry it's what I thought of when you was talking about Lagrange points!
02:23 "uhh, so ... it turns out, after we understood what gravity is, and how it worked, primarily through the equations of Isaac Newton ... "
Guess what actually causes gravity? Asymmetrical permeative particle fields!!! And just like how the particles we call photons push on a solar sail, asymmetrical permeative particle fields also can push on solid matter.
An object creates its own gravitational field by absorbing particle momentum from the background permeative particle fields. The critical piece of logic and reasoning to understand is that an object absorbing particle momentum in this way is BY DEFINITION only reducing its own upward permeative particle fields, leaving its downward permeative particle fields stronger by whatever amount of permeative particle momentum was absorbed. Thus, the magnitude of the object's gravitational field is proportional to the amount of permeative particle momentum it absorbs, and since the amount of permeative particle momentum absorbed is directly proportional to its mass, we suddenly understand exactly why Newton's gravitational equations work the way they do.
The stronger downward permeative particle fields around every solid object IS the object's gravitational field, because those particle fields push nearby matter TOWARD the absorbing object.
The cause of gravity was literally guaranteed to be particle fields, because particle fields are the only physical element that continuously bridge any two celestial objects.
The Law Of Physics is this: Continuous immersion in approximately isometric permeative particle fields automatically causes a gravitational effect. [12-13-2020]
Great stuff. Love having Chuck around. Can't wait until the next one.
Chuck was on fire today
Chuck is as hilarious as Neil is enlightening!
I didn’t realise how important these Lpoints were for our exploration of the solar system. Thanks very much!
Chuck should do commercials more often...
He's commercials are good
Amazingly interesting! Thank you!
James Webb orbit around L2 was explained in a previous Star Talk. I think its a little much to go into here and not necessary to understanding the topic but y'all is right!
That hill metaphor was as good as Chuck Nice's French accent was bad. Great work Tyson!
I new about the Lagrange points but didn't know all this info about it
A tiny correction: that telescope that is always in L1 between Earth and the Sun cannot be watching the same side of our planet (or the same house as they joked) because Earth is not tidally locked to the Sun; in other words, it is rotating.
Welp! This is cool. And now I understand the James Webb telescope a whole lot better
A couple questions:
1. How much gravity do LaGrange Points have?
Is there a direct relationship to the strength of that points gravity when compared to the celestial bodies that created it?
2. Are LaGrange Points taken into account when trying to predict the orbits of the planets?
3. Do Lagrange Points create gravitational lensing?
Efforts are currently underway to use the suns gravity as a telescope, thanks to the gravitational lensing the sun creates. If these LaGrange Points have the necessary gravity, could they be used the same way as, "Gravity Telescopes", so to speak?
Lagrange points dont have their own gravity.
Two of the most brilliant minds in the world today, each in its own way, come together for this show. Sorry Netflix, HBO, Disney+... I'll be watching Star Talk! Magnifique!
Agreed. But don't forget that Chuck is the new host of Brain Games on Disney+!
@@StarTalk I had no idea I'll check it out thank you
I love StarTalk.
Thank you for adding the Lagrange points image.
chuck is awesome and thats all there is to it..
My favorite STARTALK so far. Mr. Tyson, great explanation of the placement of the Web, and the humor👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾 Love you guys🚀🔭👩🏾🔬
That’s an easy fix, make your own video explaining it your way🤷🏾♀️
@@katrinamichelle8373 100%
That was quite amazing. Caught me an oh wow fact again, as in "oh wow" I didn't know that until just now. So much we don't know and learn if we don't listen. Amazing!
The Lagrange Points between Neil and Chuck are so close but they seem in different time zones.
You are the best Neil you inspired me to go astronomy
Hey Neil and Chuck, Greetings From India. Isro's Aditya L1 Targeting L1 point. So i want to know about these points. very well explained man. Love From India.❤❤
Whenever I hear about "Lagrange Points" I find that I think of "The Grange" by ZZ Top.
EVERYONE HAS TO AGREE THAT CHUCK IS A GEM IN THE SCIENTIFIC COMMUNITY😂😂😂😂...
Agreed!
This video was magnifique!
Anybody else no longer see the upload date on TH-cam videos after you open it? Look Now!