ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 มิ.ย. 2024
- Portal speedrunning has been around for a long, long time, so we had some of the developers from Valve Software watch one of the speedruns on our show Devs React to Speedruns. Not surprisingly, they ended the video with way more questions than answers about what exactly speedrunner CantEven was doing to make his playthroughs so quick. So, we had CantEven join the call to answer any and all questions the Valve team had about the secrets of speedrunning Portal.
Participating in the interview from Valve are: Erik Wolpaw (writer), Jeep Barnett (programmer), and Garret Rickey (programmer).
Check out more from speedrunner CantEven here:
/ cantevenclick
/ canteven
/ @canteven
#IGN #gaming - เกม
this is like a student explaining to his teacher how he cheated
And the teacher getting a kick out of it
This is the greatest comment
Less so cheated but more like “exploit” like a teacher accidentally left a poster on the board with answers
student: "and with our friends we set up a discord server that we share all our new cheating technics and develop new ones"
teacher: "man thats insane, like a full community project centered around this, thats amazing!"
It's not anything like that at all....
"I'm gonna try to explain it as quickly as a I can" Man speedruns conversations too
his gf must not be the biggest fan of this ;)
@@DeadpoolPlayz Speedrunners have no time for girlfriends.
@@QuackedUp Either this, or they speedrun between girls
@@DeltaKT speedrunners are so fast they do both at the same time
@@DeltaKT girls are overrated. Revert to gamer
what a modest person can't even is, when he say "yes the portal 2 wr is 57:57" and not mentioning in was also by him
this is an exercise left to the viewer
Haha, that's awesome.
Really? What an incredible guy.
True, however with how quick he answered and giving the exact time not 'just under an hour' or whatever he kinda gave them enough clues to solve that particular puzzle.
@@jsutrov eh, 57:57 isn't that hard to remember.
"Speedrunner Explains" follow ups like this NEED to happen more. Love hearing the devs mind explode as they realize exactly whats going on.
BUMP
Yah this was really cool to see for sure!
100% agree!!
There is something deeply satisfying about listening to speedrunners and developers connecting and understanding each other completely.
yes, this was great! it gives some nice closure both for the viewers and probably for the devs with all the questions they have trying to understand what's going on during the speedrun they're watching.
Portal dev: " is portal 2 broken? "
Speedrunner: " no. The game makes sure its not broken every tic "
Portal dev: " someone is getting fired! "
Goddammit dave!
“Bet it was dave.”
@@ethanhoward389 it's always a Dave.
Well, it worked. Speedrunner even gave props to the devs. hahaha
Erik Wolpaw seemed to really be like "how dare you fix the game" lmao
The Devs are true Engineers. They are not defensive about what the speed runners are doing but are genuinely interested, if not fascinated, in the mechanics of how they are exploiting the game engine.
to be fair, its a puzzle game designed around moving around space with portals and not something that needs to be balanced around a multi player achievement system. breaking the game doesn't cause consequences that can negatively impact other players.
@John Cox, perhaps but many game devs decide to nerf gear where players before found glitches and exploits to make the game seem easier. Case in point the conference call in BL2.
Not engineer gaming, but game engineering.
Part of that is to understand the exploits to look out for them in later games. It's hard to look for something you know nothing about.
@@InventorZahran incredible
It’s funny, Valve is so mysterious at times but listening to their devs talk about stuff made them seem so approachable and chill.
The main reason they are so quiet all the time is because they are told to be.
@@wafflecopter9296 how you know?
@@kastallion because it's common to have an NDA in place during development 🤔
@@NarWhat Valve has "when it's done" mentality plus the devs don't want to poison the discourse.
@@kastallion because they get fired and possible legal action if they don't?
Them-we'll have to figure out who destroyed the speedrunning glitch on portal 2
Dev 1-it was dave
Dev 2-it was prolly dave
Goddammit dave, its always dave isnt it?
Surely, that was why HAL-9000 did everything it did...
At some point, an innocent dev named Dave, changed some piece of its code, and HAL happened to LIKE whatever bug said code imparted on its routines. It aaaall makes sense now! lol
Sorry ☹
@@DavesBoat
_"No, _*_I'm_*_ sorry, Dave, but I'm afraid that this is why we can't have nice things..."_
- HAL-9000, probably.
that dude deserves a raise
Explains HAL's actions... The first avenger 😔
This is the cutest thing ever. They’re like all equally excited about this 14 year old game. They’re so excited to talk about it and it’s just a testament to how amazing the Portal games are where over a decade later people are still in love with this game.
The game is like their child. You wouldn't stop being excited about your kid just because they turn 14
It's gotta be flattering that so many years later, people are still having fun and putting major time into a game you made.
Also we made X work by doing Y, how have players figured out to do things with that.
@@KillerMZE truer words have not been spoken
@N Mussell son, come milk daddy
Portal is still really fun, too.
This is how all "devs react to speed run" should be, conversation between devs and runner, not "wow, how he did it, what". This is much more interesting and educational, thus some viewers can try those tricks and glitches them self.
Last time they had the speedrunner in with the devs, the speedrunner completely dominated the conversation and the devs could hardly get a word in. That is why this is two separate videos now instead of one single video.
THANKYOU.jpg
By the way, can't even has tutorials on his tricks in his TH-cam channel if you want to check them out
she speed aspect impresses me not at all, but the glitches are interesting from a coding perspective
@@silverblue73 You'd love Ocarina of Time any%.
As a developer myself, it is pretty fun to listen to these guys hear about how their software has been pushed to the absolute limit and found cracks that they didnt even know were possible. So cool
"You know I'm something of a scientist myself"
Speed runners are great debuggers
@@FlemingBarto none of y'all understood what he was saying in the movie ...
Lol I'm sure
*Makes a text based game in visual studio* "As a developer myself..."
If this guys do decide to watch the Portal 2 Inbounds speedrun, wonder what their reaction is going to be seeing the 57:57 speedrun is done by him as well.
•
and Portal 2 SLA/Oob
“Not sure if you have the answer to this off the top of your head, but do you happen to know the portal 2 inbounds world record”
*humbly*: “yeah, it’s 57:57”
Noooo way? Lmao
@@GoTeamScotch Portal 1 OoB
Portal 2 Inbounds(Outdated)
Portal 2 Any%
Even mods like Portal Reloaded and Aperture Tag(haven't rechecked if he still has the world record as of writing, will edit later)
The fix for the save glitch is the most programmer thing ever! If you can't solve the cause of the problem, just constantly check if the problem has occured and let the program fix it "manually". Those fixes are horribly resource inefficient, if you do them too often, but at one point you just can't fix the cause anymore.
Yeah and they are the really bad kind of fixes not only because of resource inefficiency! Had seen some of those and they are just horrible. Reaching the broken state and then moving into valid space of values is also showing you don't understand your own system fully. In games that maybe fine but elsewhere it's not all just fun and games..
Eh, it depends. Sometimes it's the best solution because the previous move may always be able to put you in that state. Kinda depends on why it happens. Also, "horribly resource inefficient" - depends on what the check is. You gotta remember in a game like this there's going to be thousands upon thousands of conditionals per frame (minimum), so if you're just adding one more to that list you're not really costing anything. But sometimes it's expensive to check, yeah. In this case it should be pretty easy since it's likely either 1 or 2 integer comparisons depending on how they represent portals in memory.
@@marcelh7864 yea this fix, while ideally not necessary, likely isn't resource intensive at all and at the level of source spaghetti that was prevalent during Portal 2's development, that was the best thing they could have done to fix it
@@marcelh7864 it's not that they don't understand it. It's that there's not much they can do. The problem is an axis aligned bounding box can't be moved to accommodate the portals representation in the world, so it's always going to be wrong. There's nothing they can do about that.
@@marcelh7864 Most games are running tens of thousands if not hundreds of thousands of lines of code for certain games per tick. If you can check the condition really easily and quickly, and fixing the state isn't complicated, I'd be surprised if that solution adds much more than 0.1% to the frame time of the game. It's nothing compared to the amount of logic that runs per tick to do the rest of the game.
Valve staff: Now they're teaching us how to play our games!
no surprise, bots are still wreaking havoc in TF2
Why does valve even have staff? They haven't made a game in a decade.
@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 who knows what they do or why, which is why they could use a little transparency with the community
@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 They work on their software such as steam and hardware such as the valve index and the steam deck, its not just a game development team
@@poppinlochnesshopster3249 Half-Life: Alyx was released in 2020
There are devs who get mad at players for breaking their game, and then there’s these guys, having a blast discovering how much players have managed to break it down to its simplest form.
No devs will ever get mad if you broke their game, to them the game has always been broken you just havent found out how yet 😅
@@SirDimpls yanderedev
@@pipebombmailer he's far from being a real game dev lmao
Like he said you have just taken our puzzle and figured out a different way of playing it.
Portals sort of lends itself to being played in whatever way you feel like as long as you solve the problem.
@@SirDimpls nintendo
Seriously. Please try to incorporate this approach into the upcoming episodes in this series. It’s so much more fascinating to hear the exchange, than to just hear the incredulous gasps.
@IGN Please do this!
IGN you best be putting out more videos like this one. It’s so amazing to hear the devs actually learning from the community of games we all share and love and seeing them truly invested in what they have to say so much respect all around absolutely loving it!
From a purely creative standpoint it is so satisfying hearing two different sides of the same coin coming together and sharing their love and knowledge on this stuff
One thing they need to improve though, the editing and coordination in the presentation is very lacking which despite it being something very interesting to watch it can be a pretty confusing and messy to watch too. Really feels like they just provide the video, call the dev, give them little information, and just tell them to record their reaction to it blindly
@@roihanfaiz4820 isn't that the entire point though lol
@@herorhim what do you mean the entire point is they want it to be messy and confusing?
@@roihanfaiz4820 Well, the basic premise is a speed run reaction, so the format and editing is constrained by the actual speed run video. This was the first complementary video with explainations by the speed runner for the developers, but again referencing the previous reaction video. You are basically asking for it to be more like a tutorial, but that was never what this series aimed for, and there are other videos covering the how-to. This one instead adds discussions on process and community that tutorial videos couldn't provide.
These devs have a great attitude toward speedrunning, some devs seem to take it as an insult to their game, not realizing that the speedrunners HAVE experienced the game as a whole, probably hundreds of times in aggregate, thousands of hours played, speedrunning is a compliment to a game.
Do you have an example of this? In every dev react I've seen, there's a similar comment praising the devs and talking about how some devs have a negative reaction, but I've literally never seen that...
@@Gody117 Not the ones that do this series, but you can definitely find it in the industry as a whole, to varying degrees, pretty much everywhere. ...particularly in regards to the more... broken... runs.
its more about taking it as an insult to their personal skills, not the game itself. speedrunning thrives on their mistakes/bugs, so it's not hard to see how a dev with a fragile ego wouldn't be a fan of a whole community going through their work with a fine comb to document everything they missed.
In order to actually discover all these exploits you have to play the game over and over for hours. No dev would be mad at that
@@AtomicArtumas Do you have one example of a dev getting mad at a speed run?
fyi: can't even also held portal 2 wr, his 57:57 still standing strong. this man is cracked at both games, if you interested in portal 2 speedrunning you can check his tutorial on his youtube channel
Valve:its fine there is probably no more
Speedrun community: 😐
Hold my gamer supps.
challenge accepted
"Its constant, figuring out how to break the game more"
the dev "hum thats cool" *man in so much pain right now*
"...but [portal 2] is a lot less broken than portal 1" 😭😭😭
Imagine getting to say "It's a lot less broken than Portal 1" to the developers of Portal 1. lol
they probably also developed portal 2 tho...
the silence afterwards tho
@@smoothbrained4channer976 must be because earlier when they talked about the fix for the save glitch they wondered who of them put it in
Yeah. "Broken" in the speedrunning community is "we broke the game, yay" but in the dev world it is "the game is broken".
Hey IGN, this is some of the best content (in terms of Game theory and Design) that you have ever put out there. This whole series should be a model going forward. Thank you
absolutely agree
Could not agree more
100%
it's funny how they snitch who "destroyed the portal 2 speedrun"
"- it's Dave!"
This guy's Mom: dinner's in 10 minutes!
This guy:
Dude I'm so glad they got to ask questions and learn more about the speedrun. The tech in this game is so insane I'm really happy the devs got to indulge in this speedrun further by asking questions to the runner. So awesome!
Having someone explain to the devs what they just saw is absolutely incredible. Please do this for future speed runs.
how random it is to come across your 2yr old comment, fellow Grounded enthusiast ;)
the best series IGN ever came up with 🔥
There's a bloody dabbing emoji?!?!
@@onman14 I'm not sure how but theres YT emoji
@@onman14 on PC you have access to TH-cam's custom emojis
9 out of 10
There is a little something for everyone
@@onman14 welll, its officially the "elbow sneeze", because corona.... but yeah it looks more like a pose!
game devs really do need to look at hiring speed runners when looking for glitches in the game. These people are the most unbelievably intelligent community I've ever seen.
Some Devs actually do employee speed runners to break their game but there will always be glitches in games especially when games take 100s- 1000s of hours to figure out new strates and routes.
Maybe closed betas only open to speedrunners? But tbh the only actual way is for speedrunners to become testers
We're called QA engineers
But no amount of QA is going to match millions of users playing for 14 years
@@KaitouKaiju That is true.
However, in the recent years, it hard to tell if QA even exist. Some game are so buggy, it does not make sense how it pass the QA team.
@@hamizannaruto Bugs like this are not broken enough to delay release. You can still play through the game normally and not have crashes or corrupting your hard drive or anything disastrous like that. Any piece of software will always have bugs, it's just a matter of how severe they are. Typically It is more important for the company to meet some contract or deadline, for example holiday release, than to spend months and months fixing every little issue. That decision is out of our hands
What an honor for the speedrunner to have a conversation with the developers of the game he is speedrunning. It's like a bonus achievement when you reach top 1 in the speedrun category for that game.
Yeah so there is in fact a 2 hour long video just about the function that gets the player unstuck after portal transitions
Link?
link
@@99lumpus YT generally shadowbans links, unfortunately
@@Muskar2 you can still send video id
@@99lumpus You're right, that's often better. But not always. I've been shadowbanned plenty of times with just the id
“… it was probably Dave.” The most underrated statement in this video.
Always fixin’ sh!t.
Hopefully Dave doesn't patch Portal 1 with the fix he did for 2
Fuckin' Dave, man...
They might as well have just said "it was john doe"
@@deepinside9477 there are only 2 David's credited in both Portal 1 & 2. I'd guess it's almost certainly David Speyrer.
Really cool video. Wholesome to hear the mutual respect from both sides for one another.
It's comforting to know that portals have just as many weird complications for in game physics as they do in theoretical real world physics
Props for the speed runner immediately stating that the glitches and techniques used in the run are a collaborative effort of the whole community.
This guy is so unbelievably humble. He never once talked about HIM and instead brought up the entire speedrunning community. It wasn't "I did" it was "We did". What a champ
These might be the best conversations in all of gaming idk how to explain it but its so cool to hear
Valve: We have learned from our past mistakes, lets make portal 4 longer and less glitchy
Speedrunners: Challenge accepted
Glad you said 4 instead of 3. We all know Valve can't count to 3 lol
You know it's a great game when people still play it after 14 years. Valve, please make the next Half-Life and Portal!
Portal 3 would be awesome!
@@Mike-uh5xl 1.....2....Alyx
Impossible, valve cant count to that thing after 2....
The "when do you give up" question and answer is underrated. This is an important reality of people to keep in mind. The idea that sure, some things fade away, but on some level nothing ever fully goes away, and is just waiting to be rediscovered or put back into mainstream by a dedicated, if small, audience.
When ur savestate is a portal
'probably dave'
Imagine how groundbreaking it would be if they removed the check every tick, and released a version for the speed runners to break portal 2.
Can we get more of these? Loving the discussion between creators and runners. Both have so much love for their games and it’s awesome hearing them talk about the fine mechanics. A+ stuff 👌
IGN your devs react series is great, but this is like even leagues above that. It would be awesome to have a speedrunner present for the devs react series because many viewers have the exact same questions the devs have and getting them answered is super cool
Dev: "Destroyed speedrunning on portal 2"
Portal 2 speedrun community: "Are we a joke to you?"
The speedrum community would not at all react like that, because they rose to the challenge.
@@michaelstrodick1769 speed*rum* this sounds like an interesting opportunity.
Dave*
Fun fact, it's actually the opposite. While their is no save-load glitch, there are many other fun glitches speedrunners use in their runs. Making the game a different, but equally great speed run. :)
The developers and the speedrunners, the two group of people with the absolute most detailed and sophisticated in-depth knowledge about how the game works.
MORE OF THIS. Super interesting to hear the speedrunner and devs having a convo about the game they all love.
I've listened to the Portal dev commentary so many times over the years, that hearing Jeep's distinctively soft-spoken voice gave me a huge wave of nostalgia.
Summary of the devs thoughts on the speedrunning community "We spent years trying to fix this game. you found a bunch of stuff we missed and we love you for it"
this format is even better than what you normally do for these devs react to speedruns. defo get speedrunners on the call with the devs to chat about the exploits and bugs they used maybe as a running commentary as some speedruns really do just break the flow of the game or even as an after video replays of the more theory heavy strats
Great follow up video IGN, Garret, Jeep, Erik and CantEven nice to see you have a polite and respectful conversation on this.
Eric is so naturally passionate about this game!! Genuinely amazed/interested with the community and openly cherishing his memories from development. He may just be the very last hope of a 3rd valve game..
This format is MUCH more interesting than "devs react"
This is my favorite interaction with devs and speedrunners. Love Valve and the Portal speedrunning community!
This is such a wholesome interaction between gamers and developers
Great video! Loved the developers attitude and interest instead of being angry at the speed-runners for exposing glitches in a game they worked so hard developing.
There are devs like that?
@@MrMiguel211 well a general example of that kind of behavior (but maybe not who they meant) is Nintendo with how they appear to take issue with the speedrunning of newer Mario games that use glitches, or just glitch showcase levels in Mario Maker
@@simongellatly8787 typical nintendo behavior
@@simongellatly8787 is that the devs though or just the angry corporate suits and their lawyers?
If they're interested in the theory behind speedrunning Portal games, I'm sure they'd love Msushi's videos
Love this debriefing format! Very nice addition to the series!
This Developer's React and Discuss with Gamers is just amazing and it keeps getting better and better.
In order to fully understand this speedrun right from the jump, you have to be able to see in four dimensions.
this was great. would love more videos of the devs actually talking to the speed runners
this was genuinely really really pure and the devs seem to be such cool dudes and it brought me a lot of joy :)
Wow, never even asked him how he skipped the Companion Cube Incineration, even tho it seemed like the thing they were most shocked by lol to me it seemed like they were almost hurt or speechless that he had found a way to skip it. Can't believe they didn't ask about that, otherwise what a cool opportunity for a world record speed runner and developer to talk, wish it went on longer.
They didn't have to ask, because it was obvious he used the save glitch to shoot a portal around that area and just go to the end.
It's like the devs are crafting an incredible knot and the speedrunners spend just as long pulling it apart. Love this conversation. Please do more.
What’s so awesome about this is that it’s a labor of love on both ends. The Devs love what they created, and the Speedrunners loved it so much that they spent tens of thousands of hours collectively trying to uncover every way to break it.
This is wholesome content and really bridges the gap between the developers and the community. Would really love to see more videos like this
Yo IGN. Every devs react video should have an interview like this. PLZ? awesome to listen to this
“Dave, It was definitely Dave” killed me
Speedrunner: 14 years............
Valve on the next game: hold my 3
I'm so happy you got Can't even to do this one :D great questions and great answers
This was amazing! Just by the sheer modesty and clarity he got ALL the people in the call interested in speedrunning! Wow
Love this kind of stuff. Amazing runners, devs and games.
some of the most enjoyable speedrunner-dev content this channel has uploaded
This was incredibly fascinating and would love to see more of this content
Thank you this is exactly what this series needed
While it's fun to see devs gawk at a person tearing apart a game environment as thoroughly as speedrunning does. This dialogue between the devs and runner is really interesting! And who knows, I'm sure some offhand thing the devs say might lead to some new tech :P.
It would be funny if after this they just release an update to remove the bug and destroy the commynity :)
they already did kinda, speedrunners play on an older version of the game to (primarily) make saveglitch more consistent
games are not made because you can speedrun m8 of course they will remove the bugs. thats how it works, bugs are to be removed
@@kitno6415 it was an indirect fix and we've played on the older version for fun and for consistency with more recent times. even if bugs are meant to be removed they can also be fun to use.
@@clairevoyanceSLA yea it got patched when all source games moved to steampipe to fix loads in 2015
@@catethps it wasn't entirely patched, just more annoying and inconsistent to do which is why runners have older versions to play on.
This is honestly a revolutionary video, please, please, please, try and organize more like this
This was probably the best video yet actually having the runner explain it to the devs was great.
This makes me think that the best format for these (when feasible) may be to have the devs react, then afterwards bring in the speedrunner to answer questions
Congrats to Can't Even!!! 😀👍👌
Please do more of these Speedrun Explains followup videos. It makes it so much better.
This is amazing, two groups of people discussing the code of a game, both knowing it nearly as well as each other, and only one of them made it
DO MORE OFTHESE IGN!!! All the dev-react's should have follow up's like this!
Its so sad that after all this time and communities based around this type of game analysis and execution only ONE of the developer teams actually was like, lets talk to this person who has dedicated more cumulative hours to playing the game than it took to make this game.
This is so much better than just the "Devs react to speedrun" just because they can understand a lot more whats happening and theres less guesswork involved. It makes you appreciate the work hat has gone into making and breaking the games so much more.
That was very entertaining to watch - I'd love to see more videos like this! Thanks IGN.
"Probably Dave....... yeah, it was Dave" lolol poor Dave, shat on for doing his job :)
This is kind of like sitting with your daughter's bf and the bf explains in detail how he just completely breaks her in bed
this comment wins 😂😂
😂😂dude..
sitting with your daughter's bf...on Zoom
incredibly specific, but spot on!
But everyone at the table still loves the daughter.
Love the follow up explanation. Great series
This convo is so wholesome, especially at the end lol
the fact that a company is asking other people how their own game works is absolutely crazy
We need Devs React to Portal 2.
That was so wholesome to watch how they all had such a strong interest in the game
Great idea to do this Q&A afterwards! please keep this up
If the gaming community harnessed this kind of energy and dedication they would be able to solve any problem in the world.
Even then they would squeal and hiss if they see sunlight and touch a single fiber of grass
like bots in TF2?
Actually, this is a small fraction of the energy needed in a vast number of areas to bring us to the modern world we know now.
This is what egg heads do, just usually in much much larger numbers outside of video games. Get out more brah
That ending was really sweet tbh.
Having trhe speedrunner explain to the devs what's going on was really cool. Definitely try and do this more often!
That was absolutely fascinating to me. Excellent video, IGN.