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Civilization 5 - Filthy's Air Combat Guide
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 ม.ค. 2016
- Filthy talks, in detail, about air and anti-air combat. The TL;DR is at 35:46
The NQ multiplayer balance mod can be found here: / nqmod_v80_released
"AA Units cannot intercept for themselves..."
-Scene in my mind-
*Private hands binoculars to Officer and says:
-Sir! Hostile bomber headed straight for us, should I load the AA rounds, Sir?
*Officer looks through the binoculars, and then says to the Private:
-No! Let Them Come!
+timetosuitup So strange isn't it?
+timetosuitup
Kinda hard to intercept while the bomber rains bombs on top of you, as if you don't prepare to be hit by those bombs. you're screwed. Hence they will only defend themselves as a unit.
Which them being an anti air unit is still much more effective then any other unit. ^^
+timetosuitup Sure it doesn't intercept for itself because intercept is a "fight for a friend" type mechanic. When the AA unit is attacked it still fights, but if its isolated it just doesn't have the help of an allied unit. Intercept basically is Discipline from the Honor tree that works that adds the nearby AA units attack to the fight instead of just a 15% bonus. If it did intercept for itself it would basically be making a double attack. Its intercept and its normal attack.
+timetosuitup The way I see it, the combat damage dealt is the interception damage.
Otherwise it would be able to attack twice
Idk why you don't make more of these. They're always so good.
Without this guide, I basically didn't know how to do air combat.
It's amazing how the entire air combat system, which clearly took a lot of man-hours to design and code, is ruined by a lack of willingness to playtest and patch.
basically, don't pay firaxis money, they are dickholes
why is it ruined? im new to the game, and only got through 10 mins of the video
@@mastermax7777 You're currently asking us to explain to you the rest of the 30 minutes that you didn't watch.
@@Borjigin. man i got 400 hours on the game and dont understand what ur referring to
29:30 mid-turn intercepts is one examplr
Nice info. Seems like the air combat mechanics in Civ are even more gimmicky than I thought. This certainly makes Destroyers look bad, since they could actually work against you by taking the place of a better interceptor.
I usually have 1 (2 or 3 incase they recapture the city) destroyer for cities if i play for domination victory in a map that has a lot of (good) coastal cities/capitals.
And that only if i cant use land units efficiently...
My thought is the Evasion(100) on stealth bomber is 100% reduced damage from interception not 100% dodge chance, so same mechanic as the evasion(50) upgrade, Thanks for great video!
+Kyle Gordon That might actually be correct. When I test this stealth bombers seem to use up enemy interceptions. It doesn't change anything really, it's still 0 dmg taken either from 100% dodge or -100% dmg and "evasion" is still a misnomer (it should be something like air armor, or armor plating), but at least evasion might be consistent from evasion(50) to evasion(100)
Stealth bombers are even better in that case, since they basically do a free air sweep every time you attack. That means if you have a mix of bombers and stealth bombers (not enough money or aluminum to upgrade them all), you can send your stealth bombers in first to clear out intercepts, use your bombers afterwards with impunity, and then leave your fighters on intercept mode
Teachers are pointless in school when filthy is better at explaining everything xd
Filthy: "God knows why the mechanics are the way they are."
No, he doesn't actually, the logic behind that is so convoluted that nothing and no one understands why the mechanics are the way they are.
Great video. Most people don't experience too many air fights in single player game so this will be definitely a lot of help.
btw, I think the Atomic bomb can be intercepted, although it usually won't one shot kill the atomic bomb which makes the whole interception meaningless. If you look at the atomic bomb, it's produced with evasion(50) promotion.
Never understood this thanks for the information!
Stealth bomber's evasion 100 just reduces damage taken from interception by 100%
+calze6 Confirm? That would mean that stealth bomber airstrikes safely spend enemy interceptions.
+Josh Marsolais They do indeed.
Awesome guide. I had no idea about air sweeping! I thought the game just decided that in later eras units should be used in mass quantity to be effective. Air seemed so slow and barely relevant but this clears things up!
+Jim Boulter Air is almost the best thing to have. :)
Great guide, thanks Filthy!
Hopefully I can actually remember this next time a game goes long. So far I've only had two games go into the modern eras, so I only have any real practice with medieval/renaissance eras.
I seriously hate how Atomic Weapons cannot be intercepted, think of what you see, a single bomber flying over and dropping the bomb. A single plane could easily be shot down. I also think there should technically be a way to intercept missiles, as they can also be stopped very easily. BTW, I checked, and the Atomic Bomb does indeed have a chance of interception, but it is so low it does not make a difference.
If you shoot down a plane carrying an atomic bomb, then it's still going to go off when it hits the ground, doesn't matter if the plane is included in the fall or not. :)
Resonant Evol For safety, all weaponry of that scale needed to have a so to say, safety switch, which was only turned off just before drop. The bomb would be proven useless if destroyed with the switch on.
+Andrew Dorcas if I was a pilot with an a-bomb and I thought I was going down, I'd turn it on.
Resonant Evol Well, I mean, it doesn't just work like that. You'd have to go through so many safety precautions.
@@resonantevol5062 No. Not exactly. Do you know how an atomic bomb works? Two chunks of uranium are fired at each-other in a precise and exact way that starts nuclear fission. If a nuke hits the ground worse case scenario it spreads radioactive material over an area of maybe 100 feet.
TLDR @ 36:46 for those who dont want to watch everything, which i highly recommend as its very informative. nice guide as usual filthy :))
Wow, turns out I know shit about air game :D Thank you a lot, looking forward to using this knowledge against you soon :D
+FilthyRobot Thanks for teaching him how these things work, now the dream is dead forever :P
Acqua of the Back I never thought you would be able to stop yourself from teaming me up to the time air units come into play :D
FilthyRobot Well that helps in a way. Rule 1: never build triplanes because they can't even intercept proberly. Rule 2: never build jet fighters because they eat your aluminum. Rule 3: never build fighters because mobile SAMs are just better :P Also, if you are intercepting with an embarked mobile SAM, do you know if it will have regular interception strength or strength of an embarked unit?
+kuba2898 The embarked SAM does still intercept, it just has greatly reduced strength, likely from the embarkation penalty.
+FilthyRobot wouldn't the songhais embarkation promotion on their units help with that?
500 hours of civ, and I still never got why fighters were useful, lol. Thanks!
Thanks for the guide, Filthy! I never realised air combat was so convoluted.
Do you have any advice for getting into multiplayer Civ? I've had an itch to play it recently, but none of my friends play it. On the other hand I don't feel confident enough with the game to jump straight into proper NQ group games.
+Blaze Firereign My advice is to jump straight into NQ and try to play in lobbies where players have some lower hours. Like 1k instead of 3k.
FilthyRobot
Honestly, even those with 1k hours would terrify me and my 200 hours, almost all of which are singleplayer. :P I've been tempted to give it a go but frankly, I've been worried about being so bad that I might somewhat ruin the experience for the others too. Are the pubs in Civ V's own browser any good for getting a bit of experience, or do you possibly know of any beginner's groups?
Thanks for the advice by the way, I appreciate it.
+Blaze Firereign The public games always result in leavers and scrapped games. I wouldn't waste your time there. Seriously, just join NQ games and learn on the fly.
FilthyRobot
Okay, I'll give it a go when I can. Thanks again Filthy, I really appreciate it. I'll throw you a sub on Twitch when I can spare a bit.
+Blaze Firereign This is exactly my reasoning for not joining NQ for multis. I have only a couple hundred hours, and they feel a little measly compared to everyone else. Also, I've seen these games can stretch many hours too. (Ain't nobody got time for that)
I've gotten some friends to play it here and then, but they're rarely up for a game at the same time, so a lot of 1v1vAIvAIvAIvAI, which I've found out that I crush my friends on.
They really should get Civ V to speed up a little bit more, without the fun. It seems to take forever, esp. without the turn timer.
Great stuff as always! One question, when referring to the combat strength of the Missile Cruiser when defending against aircraft, you mentioned it had 100 strength. I believe it is 80 strength and 100 ranged attack, would the strength against aircraft be its base strength or its ranged attack?
+Seebass18 Ranged strength is used for both attacking and defending against ranged attacks. I believe air strike counts as a ranged attack, so the Missile Cruiser would indeed have a base 100 strength in that case.
+Seebass18 The ranged one for the reasons Kumiplus outlines!
Yay! And I only had to wait a year. Great vid.
Filthy, I was wondering if you might elaborate further as to why you think mid turn interception is considering unsportsmanlike and not good strategy. After all interception can only be put on during a turn (assuming it wasn't already on from the previous turn), and I do not think it is reasonable that you need to be telling your opponent every time you turn interception on or should be telling your opponent anything that you are doing to try and crush them. Is there anything about this in NQ rules or is this an unwritten rule of sorts in your mind. Do you know that others in the community feel the same was as you?
I will add that my only first hand civ playing experience is single player and my only multi player experience has been watching your videos which I enjoy and thank you for. Maybe I would feel differently if I played multiplayer like you. Keep up the good work.
+Clint Holmes interception is CONSIDERED... not considering obviously, that is.
+Clint Holmes Because you "waste" an air sweep every time to check for interceptions. So if I have 1 bomber and 1 fighter and I'm attacking a player with 1 fighter I should be able to sweep away his interceptions and then bomb him. That's how it would work in turn based.
In simultaneous he could start the turn by turning off all his intercept. Then I'd air sweep with my fighter, "encounter no resistance" and be out of fighter actions. At which point he then can turn his fighter on intercept and catch and kill the bomber.
Moving mobile SAMs/AA guns mid turn is already strong enough, abusing intercept on/off would make it even stupider.
It's funny, I never found it difficult to understand why my planes die, it always says when highlighting if I'll be intercepted or aa shot
+B Vargas Too bad that only works for the ones you can see. It's possible for it to show no visible intercepts and still have it get intercepted.
+FilthyRobot your right, I'm glad you made this video though because in the games I typically play I almost never play against someone that fully understands this mechanic so they get frustrated at me very quickly
Do the Air Sweep promotions also provide a defensive bonus? I.e. if a fighter on intercept with 3 air sweep promotions gets air swept by an opposing fighter, does the defending fighter get a 100% combat bonus?
+David To the best of my knowledge, no.
So I assume that that isolated missle cruiser that didn't intercept my bomber's attack, but survived it can still intercept this turn.
Filthy, u are my true Civ hero! Allow me one stupid question : Are interceptions only active when actively activated or are there some cases where it is passively active? Wow, what a crappy sentence, hope u get the meaning of it :)
+DodgemasterDLux Fighters are only activated when they are put on interception, all the others are active just by being there.
I believe, don't quote me on this, but intercepts (other than fighters which you set to intercept to activate) only occur when the unit still has movement left.
+B Vargas Pretty sure that is incorrect
Would you mind doing a guides, tips and tricks for single player folks? I understand you're mostly a multiplayer person but I'd really like to see your insight on the AI and compare the two types of gameplays. Great videos though!
+YellowJacket530 I would advice you to PrimEvalCiv. He's really great on single player stuff. Although, I wouldn't mind looking at Filthy playing single player.
Does the dogfighting promotion only work for the attacker doing air sweeps, or do defending fighters intercepting enemy fighters benefit as well? If they don't benefit from the promotion, doesn't that put the intercepting fighters at a severe disadvantage?
+Matthew G Just the attacker. Kind of, defenders can heal each turn while attackers cannot.
Can you do a video about all the mods you use?
what do you plan for the next guide :?
If you take a city full of air units, will you gain those air units or will they be deleted?
+Flimpeen Flarmpoon They are instantly destroyed, like any other garrisoned unit.
i like this video great job
Does dogfighting promotion also help when intercepting an airsweep
They really don't have a good way to learn this stuff in game. Bad Sid, bad!
Can land units like the mobile SAM intercept if they are embarked?
Great video! Please add time stamps
Question: When the enemy starts to sweep a tile, your intercepting anti-air unit - say, a fighter - will be picked at random from those locally available, and the two fighters will engage.
But, let's say they send a tonne of sweeping fighters, and your defending fighter eventually gets destroyed! I'm assuming that, should the enemy then sweep again in their turn, another one of your local fighters will be picked to engage?
Rather than that tile just being seen as 'undefended' for the rest of the turn?
Thanks! Great vid.
Correct
does the combat multiplier (for example, 150% for AA Guns against aircraft) represent a 150% multiplication (meaning 1.5x its base damage) or an *extra* 150% damage (meaning 2.5x its base damage)? edit: nvm, filty clarifies that 250% bonus means 3.5x dmg at 13:20
Hi FR! Thanks for this video. But I've got a question about promotions concerning vessels. There are the items land bombardement but I wonder what's their meaning with subs, carrier and missile cruiser. Can you enlighten me regarding that issue?
I know this is an old video, but if I'm going to try for a lot of planes. I'll take faith healers, as it heals 75 HP (50+25)
Hey Filthy have any tips on Archipelago maps? I figured most important would be rushing optics
Didn't go in depth into helicopters, will promoting fighters with intercept work on stealth bombers? what about B-17s evasion?
Helicopters aren't air units, they just ignore terrain. Nothing can intercept stealth bombers. b-17 evasion is a dmg reduction, and I do go into it.
I had no idea how Air Sweep worked or how it was supposed to be used until this video. Thanks!
man, you should some up your speech. Sometimes you say 5 sentences when you could just say in 1
Wow. Man be glad he made this video otherwise so much of the civ 5 community wouldnt understand air combat
@@USSEnterprise3 i know, i am just telling him in a friendly way, so he can improve
Did not come off friendly tbh
I dont even build air units, waste of time imo
Chairman Meow they are the best ranged units in the late game besides nukes. They are very good at weakening the city after a nuke so your paratrooper or xcoms can take it easily
@@bed693 I know, I just find them really aggravating to keep track of and use. The UI for air units is really poor imo.
One thing to add that I didn't hear in the video is the utility of Medic promoted units to support air combat. A medic promoted unit can help air units heal faster meaning that co-locating these units with your fighter stacks can improve their survivability (especially with things like sortie) and with bombers it can help their cooldown rate when they take damage attacking a city. (Khan's also have this effect) - sorry to revive an old video but it is a neat feature.
He did mention this, specifically.
5:05
Maybe you didn't hear it in the video because you're deaf?
This is a fantastic walk through. May I ask a question for 26:05 though? It says that the reason the GW bomber survived at all was likely due to the SAM (65 cs) intercepting and not a fighter (45 cs), but shouldn't it be the other way around? Even with interception III the fighter should have been at most ~157 cs, while the SAM ought have been at 162 cs. Am I missing some mechanic?
Fighters have +100 from interception 3, and have a bonus of +250 vs bombers for being a fighter. That is 350 bonus, 4.5 times the 45 base of the fighter, which is 202 combat strength'
I thought the same. Fighters with 45 base get +150 % vs. Bombers (not +250 like butterflyspirit said) and another +100 % with Intercept III, resulting in 157.5 CS. The Mobile SAM is at 257.4 CS, as shown at 28:09.
Nevermind, I got it now. The reason the Mobile SAMs do less damage is because the Bomber also has +100 % damage against land units by its promotions. Mobile SAMs are land units, Fighters are not.
filthyrobot; don't be a dick
good advice
So the defense for stealth bombers is just being more than 20 tiles away or you're screwed. Or ask Gandhi for help nuking them.
Heyho, can you tell me the name of the interface mod you are using?
the tldr needs a tldr
Air units don't count as ranged units, cover doesn't work against them
I never knew how vital air sweeps were, thanks man!
Hey , I was wondering what of you guys do to nukes.
I was Denmark and I had like 20 bombers all with a ton of ascensions, but Japan just nukes my two cities and lost all my planes in one turn.
bomb shelters.
FilthyRobot I never build those xD. I should read more, thanks
One of these for civ 6? :)
Will fighters with dogfight promotion get a bonus intercepting fighters using air sweep?
don't believe so
Talking about firing nukes -- I'm flashing back to that old 'The End of the World' vid. 'But I am le tired.' 'Fine. Go take a nap. ZEN FIRE ZE MISSILES!"
Bloody well done mate. That criticism of last week about going off-topic was well out of line in my opinion.
I don't pretend to be an expert at creating videos, so I'm open to hear constructive criticism. He wasn't hostile about it and tried to link examples, and that seems pretty reasonable from my perspective. My hope is that my guide style videos getting better over time.
ok, so i need to carefully maintain my unit composition, got it
Filthy I like your videos, but if I could offer some constructive criticism I would say that sometimes you go off-topic and lose yourself, it happens to me a lot too, and I find that just writing speaking notes helps keep on topic and cut down time. Just a suggestion, I like your videos and tips a lot
Where is it that you think that occurred here?
For instance at 4:00, you diverge into interception when it is coming later and wouldn't need to be mentioned, and somewhere else later in the video. When i watch again it seems like a quick thing not worth a comment, but I thought there was a longer part elsewhere. Regardless, you cover hours of material so it's understandable
lol @ 18:31 "you get less sure-iddy"
How to play with mods in multiplayer? have around 800 hours multiplayer now and me and my friends would love to use mods!
I might come a little late and seems irrelevant, but why dos your cursor show you can improve coasts with a "warehouse". I can't find any warehouse ingame or as mod.
No clue!
25:32 Doge Shaka lmao
Can you do a naval warfare guide? I realize you usually play on Pangea so naval units might not be prioritized.
1. Build frigates
2. That's it
Play England / Get Great Lighthouse / Get the bonus from exploration.
Naval wars are often decide by who has first move and who has more movement points.
I saw the annotation that an atomic bomb can't be intercepted. I remember seeing an evasion promotion or something similar on the atomic bomb, implying that it can be intercepted. I would love clarification on this.
What are you asking to be clarified?
The civilopedia article on the atomic bomb says this:
Since the Atomic Bomb is delivered by a bomber, it is possible for an opponent with sufficiently strong anti-air defenses to shoot down the plane that carries it. Keep an eye out for Anti-Aircraft Guns and Mobile SAMs, and be especially careful when attempting to bomb a city with aircraft based in it.
Is that just wrong then? I know you said they can't be intercepted.
This is a copy paste from further down the thread:
th-cam.com/video/Sp5-amh0A6E/w-d-xo.html
The unit strength of the SAM determines its intercept strength.
That's a max strength SAM, it's in a citadel (+100%), on a hill (25%),
triple rough terrain promoted (+45%), near a general (+15%), fortified
(+40%), and created with a heroic epic (+15%). You're not going to get a
stronger intercept unit and although the atom bomb uses the SAMs
interception up (that's what the bombers show) the SAM doesn't stop the
abomb from going off. Aboms are, essentially, un-interceptable.
Thanks!
Wouldn't it be possible to get cover 1 and 2 for an additional 66% combat strength, and be China for an additional great general bonus? In theory of course.
steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=607612479
This mod removes "Evasion (100)" promotion from Stealth Bomber, making it interceptable.
Something I found out and now I don't know if it was a bug but Jet Fighters and Stealth Bombers wouldn't base to Carriers. I just kind of accepted it rather than question it because Stealth Bombers do need a huge runway and you don't here of them coming off Carriers.
th-cam.com/video/sT_fRC44jJw/w-d-xo.html
@@australiawideservices6729 that’s a drone
Lol I thought the triplanes, fighters and jet fighters where for land units and the bombers for cities xD great video! Thank you so much!
I'm sort of ashamed to admit it, but I've played 2,000+ hours of Civ 5 and I did not know how interception worked, mechanically. Even worse, I had no idea how Air Sweep works until this very moment after watching this video. I honestly thought it was something buggy that just did nothing. I could have saved a lot of bombers over the years... Thanks for informative vid though, I'll watch more from you too.
+Everett Harris Cheers!
Thanks for the guide! So is the Evasion promotion basically unless for Stealth bombers since that have 100% evasion?
+raysim13 Yep!
Question. If you use a nuclear bomb or nuclear missile on a city that has a nuke garrisoned (either a bomb or a missile), does the nuke(s) inside the city die, or are they conserved?
+DerRakzo Dies, even if there is a bomb shelter.
Hey, thanks a lot man, I had this question quite a while ago an couldn't find an answer. Your videos have helped me quite a bit, excellent work and keep them coming!
that road system south of ulundi though.....
ikr Its hilarious
All road leads to ulundi
Atomic bombs can be intercepted and shot down before they drop their bomb.
+Stefan Nilsson No, they cannot.
+FilthyRobot civilization.wikia.com/wiki/Atomic_Bomb_%28Civ5%29
+Stefan Nilsson th-cam.com/video/Sp5-amh0A6E/w-d-xo.html . The unit strength of the SAM determines its intercept strength. That's a max strength SAM, it's in a citadel (+100%), on a hill (25%), triple rough terrain promoted (+45%), near a general (+15%), fortified (+40%), and created with a heroic epic (+15%). You're not going to get a stronger intercept unit and although the atom bomb uses the SAMs interception up (that's what the bombers show) the SAM doesn't stop the abomb from going off. Aboms are, essentially, un-interceptable.
FilthyRobot
ok
Stefan Nilsson
What 50% evasion means is that the unit takes -50% dmg from intercepts. Unfortunately nothing in the game does 200 dmg to a atomic bomb in one shot.
stealth bombers can NOT be based on carrier, FYI
Do Great Generals/Admirals affect interception? Do Great Generals affect bombers/fighters strength when attacking?
+TPQ1980 Yes to interception, no to bombers.
FilthyRobot Thank you!
why wouldnt you just build tanks?
It would be good if you gave us some tips on espionage (go for city states, go for capitals etc)
Basically how to maximaze your spies :)
Cheers
Use them as early as possible on the highest enemy population city
i wish i didnt have class so i could watch your videos all day
The delay between video and your voice is bothering me