Wow. I could have used this video last year installing these exact drop brackets. My son and I had a hell of a time trying to figure out how to line up the holes. I’m pretty sure we invented a new language while we were at it too. Haha. Nice work.
Eddie, your videos never fail to entertain! I eagerly anticipate each new installment where you not only add exciting new features to the Jeep but also provide clear, step-by-step installation guides. Your content has been immensely helpful in customizing both my Jeep and my wife’s. I'd love to see your next video cover installing rear axle shafts or upgrading to a bolt-on long arm kit. Looking forward to it, Eddie! Keep up the great work!
I’ve said this before but I will say it again. Watching your videos sure makes it tough to stay away from the Jeep dealerships. That rig looks awesome and thank you for walking us through the process.
Great video. I ran geometry correction brackets about 5 years on my 2016 JKUR with a 4" lift, and 37's/ 38's. The brackets did help, but I was on fixed control arms. When I switched to adjustable mid arms, and got rid of the brackets. After an alignment the Jeep drove just as well. I am not going to say they are snake oil because they do work for fixed control arms, but if you have adjustable control arms there isnt much I could tell to gain. At least that was my experience. I am also not a pro by any means, so take my thoughts with a gain of salt. In the grand scheme of things these are about $150. give it a shot, and it may help you out a ton more than it did for me. Cons: 1) There is a ton of leverage/force applied to the brackets. Even when properly torqued the bracket If you do not re torque the bolts after say 500 miles or so the bracket can rock leading to oblong through holes. This will lead to poor tolerances on the bolts, and the bracket will "rock" in the direction the force is applied. You will begin to hear a clunking sound. 2) You need to get fully boxed design. There are "sandwich" designs out there, and they will bend/fold. The ones in this video seems boxed, and of good quality. 3) Rocks can eat these up. On larger tires it is less of an issue. Mine were semi beat up with 37's/38's. Also just like I mentioned above the through holes can get messed up if you take to many hits with the rocks. These multiply the forces seen via leverage, so keep that in mind. Like anything offroad you need to check them after trail runs. 4) There are a lot of folks out there whom do not understand what these things do. They will constantly, and irritatingly try to tell you these are worthless, or dumb. Even if they have now clue what your build criteria is about. Not all rigs are the same nor are your needs. 5) This is nit picky, but you take a small hit in the ground clearance department technically. The only time I even noticed was the once in a blue moon direct hit in the rocks out here in the PNW. Specifically Reiter ORV park. The rocks are large boulders strategically placed along the trail system. You can look it up YT to see what I am talking about. Regular scenic trails I never touched these on obstacles.
Another excellent video. EVen though I already have brackets, I watched the whole thing. ha. These are consistently the best install/how to videos, and enjoyable to watch. Just as a side, I prefer (and use) the Rancho brackets as they allow for a little adjustment of the upper control arms as they have 3 positions to use. Using your older videos as inspiration, I did a Rancho lift with the 9000xl shocks a few months ago and got 3" of lift. I added the Mopar extended lower LCAs (Not ready to drop $1k or more on a set of arms) and the Rancho bracket and have dead on 6 degree caster and the the jeep handles great. If I need to do anything on my Wrangler, your videos are the first ones I look at (and usually the only ones i need).
Evo once again made another great kit. These work best with fix control arms. Though if you're lucky enough to have adjustable control arms, I would highly suggest getting the alignment readjusted once done. As this is exactly why we have adjustable arms... so we can adjust the axle angles to the proper alignment after a large lift. It will only help make good things better.
There's no need to get an alignment. I had already set my control arms to be about +4° when I installed my lift and after installing these drop brackets, I'm only seeing about +5°. With FAD, it's not a problem.
@@wayalife I really wasn't talking about your particular situation, but for those watching that are installing fresh arms and brackets. People get these nice stronger arms that happen to be adjustable. Then still set them to stock lengths. In that case, an alignment for them would be a good idea.
Great to see you working the tools. I must say at my age that 100 plus torgue is tuff laying on the ground. I had some sway bar bracket that needed torqing on my Merceds van and that was a struggle. Buy yourself a 15/16 wrench next time the Snap on guy swings by.😊
Glad I saw one of your earlier videos on EVO’s long arm kits for the JL. Been very happy with them. Still a great video on the drop arm bracket kit. Thanks for sharing
Running 4.5" MC lift on my JLU noticed HUGE difference after installing front and rear MC drop brackets! Haven't had any issues rock crawling either.. Nice install video BTW
I've had these brackets on my JLURD for just over a year now. Love the ride quality but that loss of ground clearance has been an issue for me on only a 2.5" lift. I bent one of the ears bad coming down on a rock. If I was higher up I might consider keeping them but I went for a lower COG concept with this jeep. I'm actually about to take them off and install a Metalcloak arm set for the front. Then again I mainly used the geo brackets as a stop gap till I could afford the arms.
LOL - honestly, it really is as easy as you see in this video. You just need to follow the steps I show and I can assure you, this is something you can do 👍
Gotta tell you, I have drop brackets on my 2.5” lifted 2-door JL and it is a BIG DIFFERENCE in the driving and steering. I couldn’t quite get the bottom mega torque on that bolt with the clearance I forgot to give myself, so I used a floor jack to torque it. Hope it’ll help one of y’all, out there.
Honestly, it would be nice if there were something for the rear but it's far from necessary to have. Most of what you feel and experience in terms of ride comfort and handling is felt up front and so that's why the correction is just made there. Of course, long arms would address both ends but they come at a steep cost and a lot of work.
ORZ has a kit that address the rear but really, it isn't as needed as most of what you feel is up front and due to steering. For you, what you really need is a u-joint style double cardan drive shaft and in order to run that, you will need adjustable rear upper control arms to set your pinion angle in line with drive shaft. th-cam.com/video/Jw3JIatxsZY/w-d-xo.html
Death wobble is a condition caused by loose or worn out steering and or suspension components. If you have it, I would check your track bar bolts to make sure they are tightened to 120 ft lbs of torque and that the bushing are still in good shape. If they check out, I would give your ball joints a look next. Both are very common causes of death wobble.
Another great video. I was just wondering where the spec for the torque came from. I have seen it listed as low as 80 and as high as 130 but not 180. Even your specs on the forum don't show it that high. Is that for a JT? I have a JL that I put some brackets on and want to confirm the torque for Lower and upper. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Specs come from a couple different manufacturers instructions but really, torque specs are typically determined by bolt size and type. I confirmed the value based on this.
Question : you’re literally my father in mechanical engineering 😅❤, do I need long arms with 40s on my JT gladiator or I can do mid arms and the drop brackets ?
LOL - now that's funny and I'm humbled that you would say as much. Regarding your question, "mid arms" are nothing more than standard control arms that are set 1" too long and it annoys me that there are companies that would push them as somehow being beneficial for anything. While they will make your axles/wheels "look" centered at ride height, they will cause issues with spring bow, rubbing of your rear track bar on them, front coils on the sway bar arms and front track bar making contact on the differential. In a nutshell, they are stupid. That said, if you're wanting to run 40's, you will need a substantial amount of lift and or trimming and while long arms are not necessary to make it all work, they will help to correct suspension geometry and that will improve ride quality and handling and that is what I would recommend you do. Drop brackets like you see in this video will help as well especially if you're on a budget.
@@wayalife you’re definitely my mechanical engineer father 👨🥰 I appreciate you a lot , and I will follow your advice as always . Health for you and your family
I do not have a video on setting caster but I do have a write-up for it here www.wayalife.com/threads/basic-do-it-yourself-jeep-jk-wrangler-front-end-alignment.3861/#post-42391
Just got a gladiator looking to put a 3 1/2 inch lift on mine soon. Is it better to replace the lower control arm with an adjustable or should you do like you did in this video and just get a lowering bracket? The shop that quoted me wanted to do an adjustable bracket and charging outrageous amount to put it on pretty much not gonna use them.
It really depends on how you use your Jeep. If you play on big rocks a lot, the drop brackets will get hit a lot. If you use your Jeep as a daily driver and just do moderate off roading, the geometry correction will provide a better ride.
Great video! Super informative. I have a jk with 3.5 lift and fixed UCA and adjustable LCA to be 4.3 degree caster now. With the drop bracket should I readjust the LCA length or just leave it as you did? the whole axle will move a bit forward so. Thank you!
Being that you have a JK, I would say that you should readjust your LCAs so that you still have 4.3° of caster, especially if you're running a higher gear ratio and a u-joint style double cardan drive shaft. Anything more and you will start to feel driveline vibrations.
hi waya Thanks for the video! I do have a question, maybe a stupid question, after we lift we usually use adjustable control arm, adjustable track bar to restore the geometry, or we use relocation bracket. My question is, if we just consider drive quality, should we use both the adjustable arm/bar and relocation bracket? Will horizontal (parallel to the ground) control arm, track bar and steering bar give us the best driving experience?
Adjustable control arms will allow you to position your axle and set caster up front and pinion in the rear. Adjustable track bars will allow you to recenter your axle at ride height. Neither will NOT "restore" geometry. The only way to do that is to install long arms or drop brackets for the control arms and relocation brackets for the track bars. For most people, this is more than acceptable and most won't feel or notice a difference in ride quality. However, correcting your geometry will improve your over all ride/driving experience.
@wayalife Thanks! that is really helpful! Btw recently my friend shown me a picture, it is wrangler JL's axle with adjustable spring base and caster, so it looks like you can adjust angle of spring, caster and pinion individually.
Great video as always. I do have a question though as I’m planning to install a lift for the first time myself in the near future. If the drop brackets were installed at the time of the lift, would you have altered the length of the control arms differently than what they are now? Hope this question makes sense. I’m a newb with this kind of thing.
To be honest, installing the drop brackets during the installation of your lift is the best time to do it and no, there is no need to change the length of your control arms. In fact, drop brackets are typically used with factory control arms or ones set to that length.
So I installed a 2.5" clayton overland kit with adjustable control arms all around. The angle on the lower control arms reads about 11-12 degrees, would you recommend the geometry brackets to level them further? To note it's on a gladiator rubicon, as of right now I do mostly highway around town with 35" mickey thompson, mild trails if I have time
Ok so hear is my question is it better to have the caster adjusted back to a factory setting or is it better to have less of a difference between driveshaft and pinion angle? because you are going to have to choose one or the other.
Caster NEEDS to take precedence over pinion angle. Factory setting is best but a bit more will make your steering feel tighter and track straighter. This is something you should only do with FAD or manual locking hubs. Setting your pinion in line with your driveshaft, as you would do for the rear would cause your Jeep to feel very flighty, wander all over the place and worse.
Sure. I'm always a fan of EVO control arms but really, anything with Johnny Joints will get the job done well too. Of course, that would include RockJock as they make the Johnny Joints.
I have adjustable front lowers and fixed uppers just like in the video. If I install the drop brackets do I have to adjust the length of the lowers back to factor length?
I suppose it depends on how much you have them adjusted. If it's more than 3/8", I would say the lowers should be pulled back to at least 1/4" or less and then set your uppers so that you have +4°-5° of caster.
Great video as usual. May I ask a question. What do you think about the aev 2 inch spacer lift? If I get it, should I get adjustable front and rear track bars of will the factory track bars still be fine? Thank you in advance.
With just 2" of lift, you're still with in factory spec and new adjustable track bars will not be needed. Even with 4" of lift, they're not really needed but they will help to recenter your axles at a typical ride height. I say typical because your axles will always be off one way or the other depending on how much weight you have or don't have in your Jeep. It's just the nature of solid axles with 4-link suspension and a track bar. That said, a relocation bracket the rear and an adjustable one up front is what I would do if anything.
You don't NEED to but if you measure how much one wheel sticks out vs the other of you have any OCD you'll want to put an adjustable on to center your axle.
Unless you have adjustable components like control arms and track bar, the most an alignment shop will to is take your money to do a whole lot of nothing.
Wayalife I really need your help I just installed my 3.5 rc lift on today with 37x12.5r17 nitto ridgegrappler wrapped around Black Rhino Abrams and I did the finger test to see the gap between the tire to the back of the fender and driver side is 4 finger and half inch gap passenger is a huge gap with 4 finger it looks like my axle is slightly shifted off center I tried everything but can't get it even what do? I do thank you.
Sorry, not sure what finger test you're talking about but assuming you did NOT install an adjustable track bar, your front axle will shift to the driver side at ride height.
@wayalife no I installed a adjustable track bar the finger test I mean where you hold your hand out and see from side to side gap difference just something I been doing for a quick check
Sounds to me like you need to spend a little more time setting your track bar. www.wayalife.com/threads/basic-do-it-yourself-jeep-jk-wrangler-front-end-alignment.3861/#post-42377
I am still running factory upper arms but no, I did not set the lowers back to stock. This gave me an extra degree of caster, about 5° now and with FAD, it isn't enough to be a problem.
Not a drop bracket question but replacing my LCA with Mopar kit longer ones and can’t get wrenches under it enough to loosen then torque. Can I just do this with axle on jack stands like you’re doing here so weight is on the axle?
While it would be nice to have in the rear as well, it is not needed. The front is desirable as that's where you benefit the most from improved handling and ride comfort.
Death wobble is something is loose. You need to retighten your control arm bolts, and trackbar bolts. I don't know XJ's but if it's a solid front axle, it's the same concept. If that's all been done and you still have issues, it's time to look at your steering. Drag link and tie-rod joints need to be checked, as do the steering knuckle ball joints.
@TheJoePhoto No. Death wobble is a condition caused by loose or worn out steering and or suspension components. Typically, a loose track bar bolt or worn out bushing is the culprit. Worn out ball joints are the second most common cause.
Just installed a 2.5 inch spacer lift in a jlu Sahara, now jeep won’t align properly, pulling right at speed, are control arm bracket or track bar brackets needed to correct this ?
A spacer lift should have had no affect on your alignment as nothing has really changed and there is nothing you can adjust other than your drag link to recenter your steering wheel. Nothing else is adjustable and an alignment shop will charge you to do a whole lot of nothing. Safe to assume you installed new bigger tires with your lift? More than likely, what you are experiencing is radial pull from them. Or, if you installed a new steering stabilizer, you are experiencing push from it.
@@wayalife new tires yet, but changed front tire location from side to side and the pull didn’t follow the tire, and no new stabilizer. Going to tray adjustable track bar front and track bar bracket to the back to square up axle. Good idea ?
@@DBene-br7xo Tread pattern doesn't change regardless of where you put your tires or at least, unless you have directional tread. Playing around with your track bar won't make a difference. Your axle is always a bit off one side to the other depending on how much weight you have in your Jeep or not. It's just the nature of a 4-link with a track bar setup.
@@wayalife isn’t the fact that it’s directional exactly why it would pull to the opposite side of switch to the other side? Meaning if a front right tire was causing you to pull right moving that tire to the left would cause the vehicle to pull left? That’s at least what the tire shop tells me.
@@DBene-br7xomost tires are NOT directional. Being that you have not said what kind of tires you have, I can only assume you are running standard tires. That said, I would never pretend to know as much as your shop and have simply been trying to offer some help and based on what I’ve learned over the years.
Man, it's been years since I bought it but if I recall, I got it from Harbor Freight. It's a 3/4" drive so you will need a step down bit for it. That said, it sure makes getting up close to 200 ft lbs a lot easier.
@@raywarner4704 Noise? I don't have any. I would double check the torque on your bolts or your control arm bushings as there shouldn't be ANY noise from these brackets.
@@rosco1883 If you're at 6 now, adding the brackets will INCREASE your caster even higher. I would adjust your lower control arms in a bit to help prevent that as it would be way too much.
EVO Enforcer Stage 3 Overland Lift: evomfg.com/products/4-5-enforcer-suspension-systems-for-jt-diesel?aff=2 You can see the install video for it here: th-cam.com/video/Jw3JIatxsZY/w-d-xo.html
Wow. I could have used this video last year installing these exact drop brackets. My son and I had a hell of a time trying to figure out how to line up the holes. I’m pretty sure we invented a new language while we were at it too. Haha. Nice work.
LOL - sorry I didn't get this up sooner but happy to hear you were still able to enjoy it 😎
Eddie, your videos never fail to entertain! I eagerly anticipate each new installment where you not only add exciting new features to the Jeep but also provide clear, step-by-step installation guides. Your content has been immensely helpful in customizing both my Jeep and my wife’s. I'd love to see your next video cover installing rear axle shafts or upgrading to a bolt-on long arm kit. Looking forward to it, Eddie! Keep up the great work!
Truly humbled to hear you say as much and glad you enjoy our videos.
I’ve said this before but I will say it again. Watching your videos sure makes it tough to stay away from the Jeep dealerships. That rig looks awesome and thank you for walking us through the process.
Great video. I ran geometry correction brackets about 5 years on my 2016 JKUR with a 4" lift, and 37's/ 38's. The brackets did help, but I was on fixed control arms. When I switched to adjustable mid arms, and got rid of the brackets. After an alignment the Jeep drove just as well. I am not going to say they are snake oil because they do work for fixed control arms, but if you have adjustable control arms there isnt much I could tell to gain. At least that was my experience. I am also not a pro by any means, so take my thoughts with a gain of salt. In the grand scheme of things these are about $150. give it a shot, and it may help you out a ton more than it did for me.
Cons:
1) There is a ton of leverage/force applied to the brackets. Even when properly torqued the bracket If you do not re torque the bolts after say 500 miles or so the bracket can rock leading to oblong through holes. This will lead to poor tolerances on the bolts, and the bracket will "rock" in the direction the force is applied. You will begin to hear a clunking sound.
2) You need to get fully boxed design. There are "sandwich" designs out there, and they will bend/fold. The ones in this video seems boxed, and of good quality.
3) Rocks can eat these up. On larger tires it is less of an issue. Mine were semi beat up with 37's/38's. Also just like I mentioned above the through holes can get messed up if you take to many hits with the rocks. These multiply the forces seen via leverage, so keep that in mind. Like anything offroad you need to check them after trail runs.
4) There are a lot of folks out there whom do not understand what these things do. They will constantly, and irritatingly try to tell you these are worthless, or dumb. Even if they have now clue what your build criteria is about. Not all rigs are the same nor are your needs.
5) This is nit picky, but you take a small hit in the ground clearance department technically. The only time I even noticed was the once in a blue moon direct hit in the rocks out here in the PNW. Specifically Reiter ORV park. The rocks are large boulders strategically placed along the trail system. You can look it up YT to see what I am talking about. Regular scenic trails I never touched these on obstacles.
Another excellent video. EVen though I already have brackets, I watched the whole thing. ha. These are consistently the best install/how to videos, and enjoyable to watch.
Just as a side, I prefer (and use) the Rancho brackets as they allow for a little adjustment of the upper control arms as they have 3 positions to use.
Using your older videos as inspiration, I did a Rancho lift with the 9000xl shocks a few months ago and got 3" of lift. I added the Mopar extended lower LCAs (Not ready to drop $1k or more on a set of arms) and the Rancho bracket and have dead on 6 degree caster and the the jeep handles great. If I need to do anything on my Wrangler, your videos are the first ones I look at (and usually the only ones i need).
Awesome! Glad you were able to still enjoy the video 😎
As a long time follower of Wayalife, I only have one question for you, how you keep these jeep so clean that I can not find any dirt on your jeep😂😂😂
Have loved my teraflex drops with the drop bracket Reinforcements.
Has worked perfectly for 3 hard years now.
Awesome
As always great video
Thank you. Glad you enjoyed it 😎
Evo once again made another great kit. These work best with fix control arms. Though if you're lucky enough to have adjustable control arms, I would highly suggest getting the alignment readjusted once done. As this is exactly why we have adjustable arms... so we can adjust the axle angles to the proper alignment after a large lift. It will only help make good things better.
There's no need to get an alignment. I had already set my control arms to be about +4° when I installed my lift and after installing these drop brackets, I'm only seeing about +5°. With FAD, it's not a problem.
@@wayalife I really wasn't talking about your particular situation, but for those watching that are installing fresh arms and brackets. People get these nice stronger arms that happen to be adjustable. Then still set them to stock lengths. In that case, an alignment for them would be a good idea.
Awesome explanation of why and how. Those brackets look great, they don’t seem like they’ll hang up too bad. 👍
Thank you my friend, glad you found our video to be informative 😎
I agree with you, I installed them on my gladiator and it made a noticble difference. Keep up the great videos!!
Glad to hear they worked out well for you too.
love this installation videos saves me a headache thank you sir!
Happy to hear our video is helpful to you 😎
Great to see you working the tools. I must say at my age that 100 plus torgue is tuff laying on the ground. I had some sway bar bracket that needed torqing on my Merceds van and that was a struggle. Buy yourself a 15/16 wrench next time the Snap on guy swings by.😊
Nice video you guys. Great to hear your feedback on these. Definitely a great addition for the daily driver/weekend warrior 🤙🏼
Thank you. I honestly think that for most guys, these are all they need and they'll hold up just fine.
NICE JOB
Thanks! Hope you found our video to be helpful 😎
I always enjoy your videos. Very informative, accurate and entertaining.
Glad you like them!
Always enjoy your installs….
Really happy to hear you enjoy them 😎
Another great video Eddie (and cindy) thank you
Glad you enjoyed it 😎
great video-- will you do an oil cooler change/upgrade on your 3.6 from plastic to metal ? your thoughts ?
Since buying my first JL right when it came out in 2018 and having bought and still have multiple JLs and JTs, I have yet to see a need for one.
Another well done video!! Thank you for sharing.
Glad you found it to be informative 😎
Glad I saw one of your earlier videos on EVO’s long arm kits for the JL. Been very happy with them. Still a great video on the drop arm bracket kit. Thanks for sharing
Glad you enjoyed the video and really, if you can afford long arms, they are the better way to go.
I just put on Metal Cloak Drop brackets and control arms a month ago. Wasn't too bad and only took about 2 hours to do.
My friend your timing is on point, love your content, stay well and healthy!
Glad to hear it and thank you 😎
Great video as always. Thanks!
Happy to hear you enjoyed it 😎
Running 4.5" MC lift on my JLU noticed HUGE difference after installing front and rear MC drop brackets! Haven't had any issues rock crawling either.. Nice install video BTW
Glad you enjoyed the video :)
Do you have all adjustable arms as well ?
@@delagto_5340 yes
@@delagto_5340 Adjustable arms are not needed with drop brackets but yes, I do have them from the original install.
Great instructions!
Glad it was helpful! 😎
Thanx again for great info and video
Happy to hear you found our video to be enjoyable and informative 😎
Gotta love EVO products. Thanks for sharing.
Glad you enjoyed the video! 😎
Awesome thank you for sharing your expertise wall of us
Happy to hear you found our video to be informative.
I've had these brackets on my JLURD for just over a year now. Love the ride quality but that loss of ground clearance has been an issue for me on only a 2.5" lift. I bent one of the ears bad coming down on a rock. If I was higher up I might consider keeping them but I went for a lower COG concept with this jeep.
I'm actually about to take them off and install a Metalcloak arm set for the front. Then again I mainly used the geo brackets as a stop gap till I could afford the arms.
Great video! Learned something new which is always a good thing. Bad thing… you make it look way too easy! 😂
LOL - honestly, it really is as easy as you see in this video. You just need to follow the steps I show and I can assure you, this is something you can do 👍
Awesome Outstanding job thanks you
Glad you enjoyed it
Another great video Eddie. 🤟⚔️🇺🇸
Glad you enjoyed it
Good video
Glad you enjoyed
Gotta tell you, I have drop brackets on my 2.5” lifted 2-door JL and it is a BIG DIFFERENCE in the driving and steering. I couldn’t quite get the bottom mega torque on that bolt with the clearance I forgot to give myself, so I used a floor jack to torque it. Hope it’ll help one of y’all, out there.
Question, is something like this not required for the rear? Thanks, great vid!
Honestly, it would be nice if there were something for the rear but it's far from necessary to have. Most of what you feel and experience in terms of ride comfort and handling is felt up front and so that's why the correction is just made there. Of course, long arms would address both ends but they come at a steep cost and a lot of work.
Always 🇺🇸 👍 great 👍 stuff 👍 🇺🇸 😊
Thank you. Happy to hear you enjoyed the video 😎
How do you fix geometry in the rear? I’ve been through 2 driveshafts in the past year on a 4” lift
ORZ has a kit that address the rear but really, it isn't as needed as most of what you feel is up front and due to steering. For you, what you really need is a u-joint style double cardan drive shaft and in order to run that, you will need adjustable rear upper control arms to set your pinion angle in line with drive shaft. th-cam.com/video/Jw3JIatxsZY/w-d-xo.html
Great demo as usual, thanks. dose the control arm drop brakets solve the death wobble for 2.5" lift?
Death wobble is a condition caused by loose or worn out steering and or suspension components. If you have it, I would check your track bar bolts to make sure they are tightened to 120 ft lbs of torque and that the bushing are still in good shape. If they check out, I would give your ball joints a look next. Both are very common causes of death wobble.
Another great video. I was just wondering where the spec for the torque came from. I have seen it listed as low as 80 and as high as 130 but not 180. Even your specs on the forum don't show it that high. Is that for a JT? I have a JL that I put some brackets on and want to confirm the torque for Lower and upper. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Specs come from a couple different manufacturers instructions but really, torque specs are typically determined by bolt size and type. I confirmed the value based on this.
Question : you’re literally my father in mechanical engineering 😅❤, do I need long arms with 40s on my JT gladiator or I can do mid arms and the drop brackets ?
LOL - now that's funny and I'm humbled that you would say as much. Regarding your question, "mid arms" are nothing more than standard control arms that are set 1" too long and it annoys me that there are companies that would push them as somehow being beneficial for anything. While they will make your axles/wheels "look" centered at ride height, they will cause issues with spring bow, rubbing of your rear track bar on them, front coils on the sway bar arms and front track bar making contact on the differential. In a nutshell, they are stupid. That said, if you're wanting to run 40's, you will need a substantial amount of lift and or trimming and while long arms are not necessary to make it all work, they will help to correct suspension geometry and that will improve ride quality and handling and that is what I would recommend you do. Drop brackets like you see in this video will help as well especially if you're on a budget.
@@wayalife you’re definitely my mechanical engineer father 👨🥰 I appreciate you a lot , and I will follow your advice as always . Health for you and your family
Did I miss in the video where you measured the caster angle?
I do not have a video on setting caster but I do have a write-up for it here www.wayalife.com/threads/basic-do-it-yourself-jeep-jk-wrangler-front-end-alignment.3861/#post-42391
@wayalife Thanks, I'll check it out.
Just got a gladiator looking to put a 3 1/2 inch lift on mine soon. Is it better to replace the lower control arm with an adjustable or should you do like you did in this video and just get a lowering bracket? The shop that quoted me wanted to do an adjustable bracket and charging outrageous amount to put it on pretty much not gonna use them.
It really depends on how you use your Jeep. If you play on big rocks a lot, the drop brackets will get hit a lot. If you use your Jeep as a daily driver and just do moderate off roading, the geometry correction will provide a better ride.
Great video! Super informative. I have a jk with 3.5 lift and fixed UCA and adjustable LCA to be 4.3 degree caster now. With the drop bracket should I readjust the LCA length or just leave it as you did? the whole axle will move a bit forward so. Thank you!
Being that you have a JK, I would say that you should readjust your LCAs so that you still have 4.3° of caster, especially if you're running a higher gear ratio and a u-joint style double cardan drive shaft. Anything more and you will start to feel driveline vibrations.
@@wayalife thank you so much!
hi waya
Thanks for the video!
I do have a question, maybe a stupid question, after we lift we usually use adjustable control arm, adjustable track bar to restore the geometry, or we use relocation bracket.
My question is, if we just consider drive quality, should we use both the adjustable arm/bar and relocation bracket? Will horizontal (parallel to the ground) control arm, track bar and steering bar give us the best driving experience?
Adjustable control arms will allow you to position your axle and set caster up front and pinion in the rear. Adjustable track bars will allow you to recenter your axle at ride height. Neither will NOT "restore" geometry. The only way to do that is to install long arms or drop brackets for the control arms and relocation brackets for the track bars. For most people, this is more than acceptable and most won't feel or notice a difference in ride quality. However, correcting your geometry will improve your over all ride/driving experience.
@wayalife Thanks! that is really helpful! Btw recently my friend shown me a picture, it is wrangler JL's axle with adjustable spring base and caster, so it looks like you can adjust angle of spring, caster and pinion individually.
@wayalife We don't have much information about that axle, have you ever heard about it?
I am sorry but I have no idea what you're referring to.
Great video as always. I do have a question though as I’m planning to install a lift for the first time myself in the near future.
If the drop brackets were installed at the time of the lift, would you have altered the length of the control arms differently than what they are now? Hope this question makes sense. I’m a newb with this kind of thing.
To be honest, installing the drop brackets during the installation of your lift is the best time to do it and no, there is no need to change the length of your control arms. In fact, drop brackets are typically used with factory control arms or ones set to that length.
Good to know. Thank you!
Can you do it on a jeep renegade latitude 4x2 sport 😮
Renegades have IFS and this is for a solid front axle.
So I installed a 2.5" clayton overland kit with adjustable control arms all around. The angle on the lower control arms reads about 11-12 degrees, would you recommend the geometry brackets to level them further?
To note it's on a gladiator rubicon, as of right now I do mostly highway around town with 35" mickey thompson, mild trails if I have time
Honestly, unless you're feeling like you need more correction, I would just leave well enough alone.
Bolts come off so easy wished my xj did this as well , unfortunately the break everyone of them 😅
Definitely the benefit of living in Nevada and working on a newer Jeep.
Would this work in conjunction with a kit with replacement “ caster correcting” lower control arms?
Yes but you will end up with more caster. This isn't a terrible thing so long as you still have your FAD.
Ok so hear is my question is it better to have the caster adjusted back to a factory setting or is it better to have less of a difference between driveshaft and pinion angle? because you are going to have to choose one or the other.
Caster NEEDS to take precedence over pinion angle. Factory setting is best but a bit more will make your steering feel tighter and track straighter. This is something you should only do with FAD or manual locking hubs. Setting your pinion in line with your driveshaft, as you would do for the rear would cause your Jeep to feel very flighty, wander all over the place and worse.
Hello. I always watch your videos. Do you have any recommended control arms for the JK Wrangler?
Sure. I'm always a fan of EVO control arms but really, anything with Johnny Joints will get the job done well too. Of course, that would include RockJock as they make the Johnny Joints.
@@wayalife
Thanks. Does that include the rock crawlers you are considering?
That's what I have on my JK and big Gladiator if that's what you're asking.
I have adjustable front lowers and fixed uppers just like in the video. If I install the drop brackets do I have to adjust the length of the lowers back to factor length?
I suppose it depends on how much you have them adjusted. If it's more than 3/8", I would say the lowers should be pulled back to at least 1/4" or less and then set your uppers so that you have +4°-5° of caster.
Great video as usual. May I ask a question. What do you think about the aev 2 inch spacer lift? If I get it, should I get adjustable front and rear track bars of will the factory track bars still be fine? Thank you in advance.
With just 2" of lift, you're still with in factory spec and new adjustable track bars will not be needed. Even with 4" of lift, they're not really needed but they will help to recenter your axles at a typical ride height. I say typical because your axles will always be off one way or the other depending on how much weight you have or don't have in your Jeep. It's just the nature of solid axles with 4-link suspension and a track bar. That said, a relocation bracket the rear and an adjustable one up front is what I would do if anything.
You don't NEED to but if you measure how much one wheel sticks out vs the other of you have any OCD you'll want to put an adjustable on to center your axle.
@@wayalife thank you for the reply. Love your content.
Do you suggest doing a front end alignment after installing? Or is that necessary?
Unless you have adjustable components like control arms and track bar, the most an alignment shop will to is take your money to do a whole lot of nothing.
Wayalife I really need your help I just installed my 3.5 rc lift on today with 37x12.5r17 nitto ridgegrappler wrapped around Black Rhino Abrams and I did the finger test to see the gap between the tire to the back of the fender and driver side is 4 finger and half inch gap passenger is a huge gap with 4 finger it looks like my axle is slightly shifted off center I tried everything but can't get it even what do? I do thank you.
Sorry, not sure what finger test you're talking about but assuming you did NOT install an adjustable track bar, your front axle will shift to the driver side at ride height.
@wayalife no I installed a adjustable track bar the finger test I mean where you hold your hand out and see from side to side gap difference just something I been doing for a quick check
Sounds to me like you need to spend a little more time setting your track bar. www.wayalife.com/threads/basic-do-it-yourself-jeep-jk-wrangler-front-end-alignment.3861/#post-42377
@@wayalife ok thanks I'm going to buy a shirt from your merchandise on Tuesday
You went back to stock lengths for the upper and lowers after putting the drop brackets on?
I am still running factory upper arms but no, I did not set the lowers back to stock. This gave me an extra degree of caster, about 5° now and with FAD, it isn't enough to be a problem.
Not a drop bracket question but replacing my LCA with Mopar kit longer ones and can’t get wrenches under it enough to loosen then torque. Can I just do this with axle on jack stands like you’re doing here so weight is on the axle?
Yes. Putting your axle on jack stands will still have the full weight of your Jeep on the ground.
Do you need to put on rear?
While it would be nice to have in the rear as well, it is not needed. The front is desirable as that's where you benefit the most from improved handling and ride comfort.
Hi..
Would Control Arm down brackets help with Death Wobble on an Cherokee XJ..?
Death wobble is something is loose. You need to retighten your control arm bolts, and trackbar bolts. I don't know XJ's but if it's a solid front axle, it's the same concept. If that's all been done and you still have issues, it's time to look at your steering. Drag link and tie-rod joints need to be checked, as do the steering knuckle ball joints.
@TheJoePhoto No. Death wobble is a condition caused by loose or worn out steering and or suspension components. Typically, a loose track bar bolt or worn out bushing is the culprit. Worn out ball joints are the second most common cause.
Just installed a 2.5 inch spacer lift in a jlu Sahara, now jeep won’t align properly, pulling right at speed, are control arm bracket or track bar brackets needed to correct this ?
A spacer lift should have had no affect on your alignment as nothing has really changed and there is nothing you can adjust other than your drag link to recenter your steering wheel. Nothing else is adjustable and an alignment shop will charge you to do a whole lot of nothing. Safe to assume you installed new bigger tires with your lift? More than likely, what you are experiencing is radial pull from them. Or, if you installed a new steering stabilizer, you are experiencing push from it.
@@wayalife new tires yet, but changed front tire location from side to side and the pull didn’t follow the tire, and no new stabilizer. Going to tray adjustable track bar front and track bar bracket to the back to square up axle. Good idea ?
@@DBene-br7xo Tread pattern doesn't change regardless of where you put your tires or at least, unless you have directional tread. Playing around with your track bar won't make a difference. Your axle is always a bit off one side to the other depending on how much weight you have in your Jeep or not. It's just the nature of a 4-link with a track bar setup.
@@wayalife isn’t the fact that it’s directional exactly why it would pull to the opposite side of switch to the other side? Meaning if a front right tire was causing you to pull right moving that tire to the left would cause the vehicle to pull left? That’s at least what the tire shop tells me.
@@DBene-br7xomost tires are NOT directional. Being that you have not said what kind of tires you have, I can only assume you are running standard tires. That said, I would never pretend to know as much as your shop and have simply been trying to offer some help and based on what I’ve learned over the years.
Which Bilsteins are you running on your Gladiator?
5100
Who makes that giant torque wrench?
Man, it's been years since I bought it but if I recall, I got it from Harbor Freight. It's a 3/4" drive so you will need a step down bit for it. That said, it sure makes getting up close to 200 ft lbs a lot easier.
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Did you not have to reset your caster?
I did not. After installing the brackets, I was seeing about 5° of caster and with FAD, it really isn't an issue.
Good deal. I am doing this to mine this weekend, and I am around 6 degrees now. If it's too low, I will adjust it if I need to.
I installed these and liked the improvement in the ride but they made a lot of noise.
@@raywarner4704 Noise? I don't have any. I would double check the torque on your bolts or your control arm bushings as there shouldn't be ANY noise from these brackets.
@@rosco1883 If you're at 6 now, adding the brackets will INCREASE your caster even higher. I would adjust your lower control arms in a bit to help prevent that as it would be way too much.
what model lift is on the JT from EVO
EVO Enforcer Stage 3 Overland Lift: evomfg.com/products/4-5-enforcer-suspension-systems-for-jt-diesel?aff=2
You can see the install video for it here: th-cam.com/video/Jw3JIatxsZY/w-d-xo.html
That Jeep sure has a clean underside…
LOL - I always try my best to clean it before working underneath it 😎
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It looks like the ones for a 2018 rubicon are a little different
Not sure in what way. I've owned a 2018 JL and still own a 2020 JT and a 2022 392. All is the same.
You know, just to clarify, these will work on a 2018 JL Wrangler and NOT a 2018 JK Wrangler. I know that both were made in that year.