Check out Fast & Loose, the Formula 1 Post Show on Amp - where commentary meets comedy. Tune in live immediately following every F1 race, drop comments in chat, or call in as Mika, Will Arnett and Michelle Beadle are joined by a rotating list of insiders, commentators and drivers. Download the Amp app here: bit.ly/3e43X73 and follow @amppresentsf1 to join the conversation. (Available in US only).
Honda sees a chance to be tied to championships and success and wants to be part of it. Frankly, they did design and build the lumps so they do deserve some credit.
It's still a bonda fide Honda engine. This year the engine is still being supplied and supported by HRD Sakura. Honda absolutely deserves credit for this year's PU performance.
Honda isn't going to be on that rear wing. Nothing changed. Just a Honda logo instead of HRC. A lot of people won't even notice it. From next year on, I thought they would return on that rear wing, but that's probably not going to happen, unless Honda spends money on sponsoring, which they did last year as well. But since the aren't part of the team anymore, they would have to spend way more money on that, which they probably won't do.
@@djoetma thanks for reiterating that the "HONDA" logo won't be on this year's car. The original poster simply stated that the "HONDA" logo on the rear wings of RB/AT is a beautiful sight. And we ALL agree that it is.
This is what they do for centuries - do something in their own way (with mostly crappy result...) - stays for a while.. but as soon as near real success - "we are out".
@@annon-ski7985 Except Porsche was the one that screwed up because they wanted to effectively buy their way to a top team instead of working from the ground up. Red Bull is fine without an official partnership and Porsche is struggling to find an entry onto the grid
I’m glad there there is another manufacturer team in the Honda/Red Bull combo if they were to comeback. I was sad to see them go but they deserve the same credit as 2021 because they more or less made that engine.
@@stpbasss3773 both big Japanese companies so they certainly have something in common the way they do business doesn't make sense from a western viewpoint, who the F retreats when you are having succes.....
I hope they bring the "Farewell" livery from Turkey back for a "Welcome Back" in Japan with Championship white to crown a Suzuka and World Champion in a single weekend. I'm not even a Max fan, but that would make me happy.
That sadly only really works when Singapore-Japan isn’t a double header, as the cars don’t go back to the Factory in between, would be awesome if they could do it next year though
It makes complete sense to me. They initially said they were leaving to divert resources to EV development, since then they have made close ties to GM to share development costs which certainly reduced their stress. They also saved a lot of money by not being so prominent in F1 for this season. Now they agreed with RBR and AT that the branding returns albeit with less prominent real estate on the car and likely not having to pay he teams for said real estate. This news makes me very happy and with RBR bolstering their PU production space this means that if Honda return it would be almost like consulting and branding instead of shouldering huge development costs. Honda also makes the best hybrids in the world, so the new regulations are very marketable for them. Great news!
It feels like they left after 2021 because they thought rb would flop hard under the new regs, and now they return when rb is running away with the championship 💀
Correction: Honda left after 2020. Honda just had a year of full support contract left for 2021. Originally they left because of "SuStainaBle fUtuRe pLanS"...
If you want to ignore politics in Japan, Honda's competitors in Japan, the pandemic, the global car market, Honda's other projects outside automotive, and the fact that Honda Japan (who make the decisions) and Honda F1 (a devision of Honda Japan who very much want to stay in F1) are two separate entities, with different management, then..... yeah, your comment can apply?
? They left because Honda thought it wasn’t worth all the money and people that are on the project. But now that the powerunit is so strong and redbull is to win both championships, why would they pull out now?
No, the decision was made way before the new regs. And rationally taken, they were right to leave. They are making the engines now, because Red Bull can't and is paying them to do so, while before, Honda didn't get payed at all and were spending around two billion for something that didn't render them anything. Not in terns of technological knowledge and not in terms of PR.
They left Red Bull last year because they are focusing on the electrification of cars but due to the fact that by 2026, F1 cars will run with sustainable fuels, they came back to F1 because it aligns with the current direction of Honda
Nope. That's bullshit. Honda left F1 last year because they had poured money in it from 2015 with nothing much to show for it other than a couple of wins. Remember, they made the decision to leave in 2020. Then 2021 happened, and they were thinking...“kuso..."
@@user-11528 Kinda like all the electric green bullshit. Electric cars are worse for the environmental to make and not to mention they need to be charged which runs off power plants. Like dumbass America, some states want to have all electric cars by 2030 or some shit yet they are constantly crying about a energy crisis, it's like they don't use their brains at all. Imagine hundreds of millions of electric cars being charged every day lmao.
@@kever678 1st lap his fault. 2nd lap still his fault as if he did the 1st he would've been able to slow down and have enough fuel for a 2nd lap instead of 2 push laps. And his race weren't very impressive either
@@harry4454 he got called by his team to break his first lap since they had time for another. Then he got called by his team to break his second lap as well for the fuel.
@@kever678 he made a mistake on his first run that's why he bailed out. He was gonna get pole on the first run but made a mistake. Stop the silliness and get out of his arse
I'm pretty sure it just has to do with some financial/accounting/tax related business stuff. When they're officially in F1 they'll have to book those costs under a different category then when they just supply engine to an external party, being Red Bull. It might well be that some people within Honda's higher management and/or stakeholders think that the one or the other option is more risky or gives more benefits to the company.
The whole Honda thing is a master stroke of genius. Act like Honda is pulling out, have talks and meetings with a potential new partner (Porsche) see where they are, learn everything, and then decide the grass isnt greener on the other sode. I love Honda. This whole thing of we are in love, no we are not in love, babe take me back is awkward to say the least. Just go all in on F1. No one GAF about electric blah blah blah. Is it the future? Yes, but you still make Civic Type and (hopefully) Integra Type R, which is all we enthusiasts care about.
They can not completely leave F1. Honda car started in F1. They were still just an motorcycle company when entering F1, their then car engineers "LEARNT" to design a car from F1 track. This is classic Soichiro Honda "versus" Takeo Fujisawa, Engineering vs Finance, Dream vs Reality. 😉
Honda: Builds a championship winning screamer of an engine (again) Decides to drop out of F1 after the year that reality comes true Refuses to elaborate furter Leaves. OH LAWD HE COMMIN
Honda won't leave F1. They appreciated the time of development given by RB and trusted them to develop the ICE and won them the 2021 WDC (although it was very controversial), compared to McLaren with the tight deadlines who struggled a lot by rushing the Japanese brand.
It feels pretty common sense, really. Honda wanted to pull out saying they wanted to focus more on street cars. They see RBR doing well with their name still kinda' sorta' on the cowl and the good PR that can come from it, so now they're likely reconsidering 2026 and a more formal technical partnership with RBR.
I have a feeling the cost cap and some creative accounting comes into play in this entire scenario, and honestly if that is the case, we’ll done to them for getting it done. One thing is for certain - you cannot beat the RB strategists.
It’s also a tactic to get Porsche execs back around the table. We know they want to be in F1 and that Red Bull are the only viable team that would fit what they’re after. The last round of meetings didn’t work out, Porsche pulled out. If Porsche want to get back in, they need to get around the table and agree to Red Bull who are showing here that they have backup options easily available to them.
Porche didn't pull out, porche wants control on what happens with the team, and Horner and Marko don't want to give up the control. They want more of a honda agreement and not just being a glorified title sponsor
It's quite clever for honda. They supply the bits and recieves all the british engineering tec, something that historically been a huge issue for the teams it is with. Due to the vast distances between the team factory and honda's engin factory. And as Ron Denis put it, many English to Japanese and Japanese to English languages often don't get the subtleties or dialects each side are using, which causes misunderstanding and delays. Redbull using a parallel developement system offers the best of both.
The enhanced branding deal with Honda and the possibility of an extended and reworked engine development and supply deal will finally put to an end of any Red Bull Porsche deal. The dual F1 participation of Audi Motorsport and Porsche in F1 was always perplexing as they would be competing against each other and therefore splitting resources.
It seems kind of crazy Honda worked so hard after returning to F1, suffered so many humiliations in the hands of McLaren and Fernando Alonso (calling its engine "GP2" in Canada), found a great team in Red Bull, and when it finally has an utterly dominating season, not unlike the late 1980s days, its name is barely there to reap the benefits. Something is slightly worped in their Tokio headquarters.
If you knew anything about the videos made when Honda left, it was all about electric energy marketing from Honda Japan and nothing to with Honda F1. Since the time they made that decision, F1 has made a commitment to different PU which is cheaper, more electrification, and sustainable fuels. But I guess you know better.
@@Ruylopez778 That literally just repeats what I said. At the time Honda wasn't really confident going into 2021, with sporting direction and technology. You need to read the words before you comment.
@@ApexwithDavin You don't know what you're talking about. Honda Japan **wanted an excuse** to get out of F1, a money pit, and focus on competing with other manufacturers in electrification. It had FUCK ALL to do if RB were going to win or not, because they made the decision much earlier. There's now new management, new PU regulations focused on more electrical power and the battery tech they developed with RB, so the decision is based on CHANGES to the sport and a CHANGE in leadership. It's not 'literally what you said', and if you can't understand, you need to read before you comment. It has fuck all to do with being 'prideful'.
@@Ruylopez778 Then make a full commitment back in immediately. If it has nothing to do with pride, then Honda would have no problem just saying "Hey, we're back and we want you to see it."
@@ApexwithDavin You have no understanding of the complexity involved. you sound like the typical weirdo that wants to simplify everything to your opinion, just to make snarky comments and jump to conclusions. No insight. Different management make different decisions based on the global economy, the outlook, technology, marketing, public opinion etc. You don't make commitments overnight, and not without assurances. They also have to consider what RB want from a partnership after 2025. RB are obviously quite particular about their IP and strategy. They're already in 13 or more other championships/series. It's highly debatable whether they would gain sufficient marketing exposure to justify the costs, so there has to be some technological benefit with the regulations also - like sustainable fuels and battery tech. And any fan who cares about F1 knows Honda are in the championship, anyway.
Honda is ridiculous because of its stock holders and some top executives hating F1. Yes, Honda has 2 groups within, one who love F1 and one who hate F1. Last CEO hated F1 because it does not make any money for them. Lets just say Honda didnt make any money because they didnt even market F1 a lot at their dealerships in Japan. Only Kei-cars, to be honest. Honda and F1 should not be apart, its their strength, even Toyota could not do it.
The stars alighted tbh, the engine freeze, Porsche deal falling through, Redbull's current form and not to mention a competitive masterpiece engine after all the trials and failures.
Thinking about Honda's F1 return and where their Power Unit is now. Even if their brand isn't on the cars, the whole world knows that VTEC is kicking in. Welcome back HONDA🇯🇵
To begin with, it's a very weird decision for honda to pull out. First of all, since their return with mclaren, they have come a long way and they are finally tasting success, and then all of a sudden they just give up. And neither do their engineers would like this decision, I mean, given you have proven you have the ability to be very competitive and go toe-to-toe with all the other top teams, suddenly all the years of hard works just... abandoned, worse more, they abandoned the f1 project just to go back to designing economy cars.
This is exactly why F1 and Red Bull need Honda. They are better off together than apart 👍. Every Red Bull Honda fan can look at the Civic’s and CR-V’s in their garage with pride.
After "working" with Mclaren it is not so confusing to see why Honda did not want to continue. The public face of that relationship was marred by criticism bordering on abuse at times by Mclaren towards Honda. Looking back it is clear the problems at Mclaren were not Honda or drivers. Many of their issues continue including the public trashing of another current elite driver. From Honda's perspective look at how they are treated by Red Bull. Constant respect and positivity shown and inclusive behaviours by both, further illustrate the less than optimal nature of Mclarens treatment toward Honda. This context should help alleviate some confusion.
Yep. Honda’s engineering really deserves more recognition. A full Honda garage with Civic Type R’s, Acura MDX Type S’s, and Honda lawnmowers would be awesome
I again I'm putting alot if this on the FIA it took a WHOLE year to get a set list of engine regulations that just so happened to line up with everything the company wants. A less expensive over all Saves them money More electrical power Aligns with their global vision Carbon neutral fuels Perfect for their green mission
100% chance of rain tomorrow at Suzuka so I’m taking my duck gear. An 80% chance of rain on Sunday 80 to 90% of the race will be on those ugly blue tires. It’s going to be a lot of fun out there sorry you guys can’t be there.
The problem Honda faces is having to face scrutiny in the ev world if they’re backing a major racing team that does not use fully electric motors. In my opinion, Honda could still kill the championship. If they wanted to make a difference, they could push for F1 to use ev’s for transportation of the massive haul they move every weekend. That would make a bigger positive impact in becoming green, while leaving the motorsport intact
It was always about Honda cost cutting to manage the changes in the automotive world. Anything less than a full works commitment would be seen as leaving as people cannot see or understand anything in between when infact inbetween was what Hond and Redbull had been targeting all this time. With RedBull footing more of the cost Honda cannot have the same logo prominence on the car giving rise to the confusion. Honda and Redbull merely negotiated on the expenses not Honda leaving completely.
It never made sense to me why they would want to remove their branding when they didn't have to do any major work producing their engines and almost have free branding on the car
I wonder whether part of this was because there was the potential for Porsche to rebadge their engines and muscle in on the success without Honda getting any credit.
From everything I have read it's down to the fact that Red Bull are still using the Honda engine and Honda not being happy with the lack of Honda branding on the Red Bull, we may see even more next year if they can afford it 😜
Everyone knows that the so called Powertrain is still Honda in all but name. It's only right they get the credit they deserve for helping Red Bull win the both titles this year and their name is back on the Engine.
Honda have a history in F1 if coming in as a new team, and as an engine supplier, since the 1960,s difficult to predict what they will do in the future.
This is the same Honda that designed and gave away the car that eventually became a F1 championship winner back in 2009. Although part of the success of the Brawn GP car was it had a Mercedes engine in it.
Honda have missed on so much free branding and praise from this 2022 season when they/RBPT have been a really good engine most likely the best engine overall on the grid It’s only natural they want their name to be more prominent again also wouldn’t be surprised if they’re back by 2026 they clearly have a good thing going with RB/AT
Can't blame them for back peddling their move. I'm sure they regret their decision after Verstappen won last years Championship, and is on track to win the 2022 Championship, along with what is seemingly to become RedBull securing their first Constructors Championship in years.
If there ever was a time to run that white Honda tribute livery, this is it. GET THAT SHIT ON THE CARS STAT. Legit one of if not the most beautiful F1 cars i’ve seen in recent times.
If anything, this just shows that RB clearly cannot run the powertrains division by themselves, hence the 'desperation' to get someone in to join them. First Porsche, now Honda.
Thankfully they at least had an HRC logo until now at least otherwise they would have had zero visibility in a season that turned out to be unexpectedly dominant for Red Bull. Unexpectedly because no one expected Ferrari to screw up so much and for Mercedes to not get it right with the new regs.
I understand why red Bull would be interested in a reunion with Honda. Though if Red Bull was still interested in a larger party to be involved in RPT why would they not be interested in Porsche who’s in it for the long term or at least through the next 6 years of engine regulation
Nothings changed. They replaced HRC (HONDA Racing Corporation, well known in motorbike racing and it actually said 'Honda Racing' under the logo on the car all year) logo for a Honda logo. Still a very small logo. To be clear, Honda stepped back because they couldn't get the PR value from F1 they expected. Nobody cared about Honda, including Red Bull who hardly ever mentioned the brand if it wasn't necessary. They spend billions on F1. The amount of ads you can buy from that will do more for you than F1 involvement, especially for Honda who always are walking uphill when it comes to getting credit for their effort. Everyone stumbled over each other the moment Audi/Porsche even farted in the direction of F1. Honda the media mostly mentioned when they were failing at McLaren, with the 'truth' that it was all Honda's fault and not in any way McLaren's. Apart from the PR, it's simply true that it doesn't make sense to spend so much money on F1 that doesn't do anything for you while the are behind on EV technology.
Basically Honda has struggled for a few years in this hybrid era so they wanted to leave the sport but now Red Bull is winning championships they probably want back in to get more recognition for Red Bulls success
well, it looks to me that Honda learned from their 2008 mistake to sell off their factory team to Ross Brawn when they had a championship winning machine for the following year.
Honda built the best chassis for 2009 after years of struggling but left and the car did not race under its name and then built the best engine for 2022 (after years of struggling until '21) and then left before racing with is full name. It's a pattern, glad it's back though!
I just realize,... *Honda is a Tsundere* 😅😅 Honda - _" I Hate you, I'm Leaving"_ Honda - _" Ok, I'm staying but, not because I like you or anything"_ Honda - _" Do you want me to stay? Not that I care"_ 🤣🤣
@@halofreak1990 the 2026 engine will be entirely different though although still a 1.6 v6 it has to be more efficient , the bottom end will be limited development but the upper half will be free to develop with less exotic materials and the electrical storage and recovery will be different aswell
in/out, confusing messaging. Other teams helping RB with an engine freeze so they can develop their own powertrains. Then Honda change their minds and RBPT will be Honda again. A bit messy. But it's Redbull and they have a huge fanbase.
The first video from The Race that has my dislike. I don't understand the tone of this video. As a motorsport, it should be a good thing that there are more engine manufacturers coming in from the sport, not to mention a good one in this case, and the narrator of this video only sounds confused (somewhat justified) and annoyed (why?). Granted that Honda's movement was indecisive, but its their own problem, and the decision is made by multiple people, at different times, and they even had a CEO change during that time as you mentioned. Why the hell do you need to sound that negative about a development that would only bring more competition to the sport? Does adding Honda-RBPT to the list of Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, Alpine (Renault) fighing for the best engine in 2026 sound that anticlimactic to you? WRC fans have been vying for more manufacturers in the sport other than the usual trio for YEARS without hope, and now F1 stands at a chance to have SIX and the best you can do is to sound annoyed about it?
This is only so that porsche can have extra money without giving any reasons for the other teams to say "well porsche is not really a new to f1 because they signed in 2022" in 2026
I never understood the whole "leaving F1 for eco reasons". Honda have continued to make engines for Indy Car and IMSA and never talked about leaving and F1 engines are more efficient than either of those.
It seems to me that this was all an elaborate ruse by RB to stop its rivals in developing there engines and agreeing to an advantageous engine development freeze! It’s utterly disgraceful and I’m shocked at how Mercedes and Ferrari agreed to this arrangement!
The mistake here is focusing on Honda instead of RB. Keep in mind the decision was made by RB not Honda. The only explanation for this is that the RB engine is not happening and RB has to look for other options, including Honda.
Check out Fast & Loose, the Formula 1 Post Show on Amp - where commentary meets comedy. Tune in live immediately following every F1 race, drop comments in chat, or call in as Mika, Will Arnett and Michelle Beadle are joined by a rotating list of insiders, commentators and drivers.
Download the Amp app here: bit.ly/3e43X73 and follow @amppresentsf1 to join the conversation. (Available in US only).
Is there another way you can watch this without the app? It’s not available in my country😢
Yeah. Never mind ...
- Apple only?
- have to use a specific unknown app?
- is it only a liveshow?
- not available in my country?
Honda sees a chance to be tied to championships and success and wants to be part of it. Frankly, they did design and build the lumps so they do deserve some credit.
Its not just limited to that. RBPT has concessions for 2026 if they are "new" constructor which the VW group gets as well
Max Costcappen with Honda. We'll see
@@theonlylolking it's Crashtappen.. please give the man the credit he earned
It's still a bonda fide Honda engine. This year the engine is still being supplied and supported by HRD Sakura. Honda absolutely deserves credit for this year's PU performance.
@@theonlylolking That's better than having to race for the Mercedes Nazi Petronas team
Can we agree that having HONDA on that rear wing is a beautiful thing to see in F1?
Leclerc after the race: "I think I'm going to buy a Civic"
Honda isn't going to be on that rear wing. Nothing changed. Just a Honda logo instead of HRC. A lot of people won't even notice it. From next year on, I thought they would return on that rear wing, but that's probably not going to happen, unless Honda spends money on sponsoring, which they did last year as well. But since the aren't part of the team anymore, they would have to spend way more money on that, which they probably won't do.
and that acura special on cota is so good too
@@djoetma thanks for reiterating that the "HONDA" logo won't be on this year's car. The original poster simply stated that the "HONDA" logo on the rear wings of RB/AT is a beautiful sight. And we ALL agree that it is.
yes
Honda after making a masterpiece of an engine : Aight we out
When that engine wins the championship: Aye we did it!
absolutely gigachad
@@TheRealSonicBeats well, rightfully so.
This is what they do for centuries - do something in their own way (with mostly crappy result...) - stays for a while.. but as soon as near real success - "we are out".
@@TheRealSonicBeats sounds identical to rosberg’s story
Honda: *wins championship then leaves*
Rosberg: *wins championship then leaves*
So Honda is reluctantly admitting that they want to be back in F1. Truly, one of the most tsundere moments in F1 history.
Honda-chan is best girl
I think Redbull is begging back after screwing up the Porsche deal.
@@annon-ski7985 Porsche messed that up, not RB. The greedy Germans wanted too much influence
@@annon-ski7985 Except Porsche was the one that screwed up because they wanted to effectively buy their way to a top team instead of working from the ground up. Red Bull is fine without an official partnership and Porsche is struggling to find an entry onto the grid
@@justadummy8076 Sasuga Honda-chan
Regardless of how weird their decisions are, i’m just happy that Honda is back in F1 ❤
I'm very happy to return at least for now under the hrc brand
Not weird at all they are just japanese, Nintendo fans will understand they have a very different view how to do business
@@kabritu. Yes because Nintendo and Honda are related somehow 😂.
I’m glad there there is another manufacturer team in the Honda/Red Bull combo if they were to comeback. I was sad to see them go but they deserve the same credit as 2021 because they more or less made that engine.
@@stpbasss3773 both big Japanese companies so they certainly have something in common the way they do business doesn't make sense from a western viewpoint, who the F retreats when you are having succes.....
I hope they bring the "Farewell" livery from Turkey back for a "Welcome Back" in Japan with Championship white to crown a Suzuka and World Champion in a single weekend. I'm not even a Max fan, but that would make me happy.
Max driving in the rain with the white honda livery has been my desktop wallpaper ever since. Such a good livery.
Yes!! That should be their permanent livery
Can we have RBR run last year's white and red Honda tribute livery again this year in Suzuka? That was beautiful.
Yeah, that white RBR livery was so cool, it also contrasted the black Mercs. Yin and Yang situation.
That sadly only really works when Singapore-Japan isn’t a double header, as the cars don’t go back to the Factory in between, would be awesome if they could do it next year though
It makes complete sense to me. They initially said they were leaving to divert resources to EV development, since then they have made close ties to GM to share development costs which certainly reduced their stress. They also saved a lot of money by not being so prominent in F1 for this season. Now they agreed with RBR and AT that the branding returns albeit with less prominent real estate on the car and likely not having to pay he teams for said real estate. This news makes me very happy and with RBR bolstering their PU production space this means that if Honda return it would be almost like consulting and branding instead of shouldering huge development costs. Honda also makes the best hybrids in the world, so the new regulations are very marketable for them. Great news!
It feels like they left after 2021 because they thought rb would flop hard under the new regs, and now they return when rb is running away with the championship 💀
Correction: Honda left after 2020. Honda just had a year of full support contract left for 2021. Originally they left because of "SuStainaBle fUtuRe pLanS"...
It is the old guys in the board has something to do with it
If you want to ignore politics in Japan, Honda's competitors in Japan, the pandemic, the global car market, Honda's other projects outside automotive, and the fact that Honda Japan (who make the decisions) and Honda F1 (a devision of Honda Japan who very much want to stay in F1) are two separate entities, with different management, then..... yeah, your comment can apply?
? They left because Honda thought it wasn’t worth all the money and people that are on the project. But now that the powerunit is so strong and redbull is to win both championships, why would they pull out now?
No, the decision was made way before the new regs. And rationally taken, they were right to leave. They are making the engines now, because Red Bull can't and is paying them to do so, while before, Honda didn't get payed at all and were spending around two billion for something that didn't render them anything. Not in terns of technological knowledge and not in terms of PR.
They left Red Bull last year because they are focusing on the electrification of cars but due to the fact that by 2026, F1 cars will run with sustainable fuels, they came back to F1 because it aligns with the current direction of Honda
Nope. That's bullshit.
Honda left F1 last year because they had poured money in it from 2015 with nothing much to show for it other than a couple of wins. Remember, they made the decision to leave in 2020.
Then 2021 happened, and they were thinking...“kuso..."
Yup, 100% sustainable fuel, and massive hybrid power increase, will only help Honda’s future road car development.
those "carbon neutral" fuel make more co2 to produce than production of petrol.
@@tiadaid Agreed. If they were serious about that "electification" excuse, they'd also have pulled out of IndyCar, which they didn't.
@@user-11528 Kinda like all the electric green bullshit. Electric cars are worse for the environmental to make and not to mention they need to be charged which runs off power plants. Like dumbass America, some states want to have all electric cars by 2030 or some shit yet they are constantly crying about a energy crisis, it's like they don't use their brains at all. Imagine hundreds of millions of electric cars being charged every day lmao.
really hope Max wins the title this weekend, it would be really nice for him to do it in Japan for Honda
Be even funnier if he cracks again like in Singapore
@@harry4454 cracks again? You mean his 2 Q3 laps who both would have been pole but were destroyed by his team?
@@kever678 1st lap his fault. 2nd lap still his fault as if he did the 1st he would've been able to slow down and have enough fuel for a 2nd lap instead of 2 push laps. And his race weren't very impressive either
@@harry4454 he got called by his team to break his first lap since they had time for another. Then he got called by his team to break his second lap as well for the fuel.
@@kever678 he made a mistake on his first run that's why he bailed out. He was gonna get pole on the first run but made a mistake. Stop the silliness and get out of his arse
I'm pretty sure it just has to do with some financial/accounting/tax related business stuff. When they're officially in F1 they'll have to book those costs under a different category then when they just supply engine to an external party, being Red Bull. It might well be that some people within Honda's higher management and/or stakeholders think that the one or the other option is more risky or gives more benefits to the company.
The fans and RB continue to show love for Honda, im glad theyre willing to stick around in name as well.
It would be cool if Redbull run the special white livery again at Suzuka this year.
The whole Honda thing is a master stroke of genius.
Act like Honda is pulling out, have talks and meetings with a potential new partner (Porsche) see where they are, learn everything, and then decide the grass isnt greener on the other sode.
I love Honda. This whole thing of we are in love, no we are not in love, babe take me back is awkward to say the least. Just go all in on F1. No one GAF about electric blah blah blah. Is it the future? Yes, but you still make Civic Type and (hopefully) Integra Type R, which is all we enthusiasts care about.
They can not completely leave F1. Honda car started in F1. They were still just an motorcycle company when entering F1, their then car engineers "LEARNT" to design a car from F1 track. This is classic Soichiro Honda "versus" Takeo Fujisawa, Engineering vs Finance, Dream vs Reality. 😉
Well said
Maybe it was all part of an elaborate plan that red bull thought would allow it to evade the cost cap without detection....
best explanation.
Honda:
Builds a championship winning screamer of an engine (again)
Decides to drop out of F1 after the year that reality comes true
Refuses to elaborate furter
Leaves.
OH LAWD HE COMMIN
Words can’t express how glad i am to see that Honda is back. Especially when the alternative was Porche.
Honda won't leave F1. They appreciated the time of development given by RB and trusted them to develop the ICE and won them the 2021 WDC (although it was very controversial), compared to McLaren with the tight deadlines who struggled a lot by rushing the Japanese brand.
7:10 Ah yes, our dear friend Ben Salayem looking out the window and opening his laptop. Incredible scenes!
I don't care how confusing the whole situation is, I'm just glad we have Honda in some form still as part of F1.
we're winning.
lets quit.
lets buy a team.
lets quit.
lets make an engine.
lets quit.
hey they want us.
lets quit.
good to see the name HONDA in F1. They have a great legacy.
Where can I watch that press release???
I think they should start from scratch again and partner with Aston Martin just for the giggles 😂
Great to see Honda and Suzuka back
It feels pretty common sense, really. Honda wanted to pull out saying they wanted to focus more on street cars. They see RBR doing well with their name still kinda' sorta' on the cowl and the good PR that can come from it, so now they're likely reconsidering 2026 and a more formal technical partnership with RBR.
I have a feeling the cost cap and some creative accounting comes into play in this entire scenario, and honestly if that is the case, we’ll done to them for getting it done. One thing is for certain - you cannot beat the RB strategists.
Just hope this doesn't mean redbull has a new engine supplier form next year and use it as a loophole to upgrade its engine more
It’s also a tactic to get Porsche execs back around the table. We know they want to be in F1 and that Red Bull are the only viable team that would fit what they’re after.
The last round of meetings didn’t work out, Porsche pulled out. If Porsche want to get back in, they need to get around the table and agree to Red Bull who are showing here that they have backup options easily available to them.
Porche didn't pull out, porche wants control on what happens with the team, and Horner and Marko don't want to give up the control. They want more of a honda agreement and not just being a glorified title sponsor
Porche wanted a majority in the team basically and RB said f off
Ferrari are bag fumblers for strategy but Honda are bag fumblers for overall management. Nice video. Keep up the good work.
It's quite clever for honda. They supply the bits and recieves all the british engineering tec, something that historically been a huge issue for the teams it is with. Due to the vast distances between the team factory and honda's engin factory. And as Ron Denis put it, many English to Japanese and Japanese to English languages often don't get the subtleties or dialects each side are using, which causes misunderstanding and delays. Redbull using a parallel developement system offers the best of both.
The enhanced branding deal with Honda and the possibility of an extended and reworked engine development and supply deal will finally put to an end of any Red Bull Porsche deal. The dual F1 participation of Audi Motorsport and Porsche in F1 was always perplexing as they would be competing against each other and therefore splitting resources.
It seems kind of crazy Honda worked so hard after returning to F1, suffered so many humiliations in the hands of McLaren and Fernando Alonso (calling its engine "GP2" in Canada), found a great team in Red Bull, and when it finally has an utterly dominating season, not unlike the late 1980s days, its name is barely there to reap the benefits. Something is slightly worped in their Tokio headquarters.
Basically should have just stayed because they didn’t actually leave
You can tell Honda wasn't really confident going into 2021, then Red Bull was dominant and they were too prideful to walk it back.
If you knew anything about the videos made when Honda left, it was all about electric energy marketing from Honda Japan and nothing to with Honda F1. Since the time they made that decision, F1 has made a commitment to different PU which is cheaper, more electrification, and sustainable fuels. But I guess you know better.
@@Ruylopez778 That literally just repeats what I said.
At the time Honda wasn't really confident going into 2021, with sporting direction and technology.
You need to read the words before you comment.
@@ApexwithDavin You don't know what you're talking about. Honda Japan **wanted an excuse** to get out of F1, a money pit, and focus on competing with other manufacturers in electrification. It had FUCK ALL to do if RB were going to win or not, because they made the decision much earlier. There's now new management, new PU regulations focused on more electrical power and the battery tech they developed with RB, so the decision is based on CHANGES to the sport and a CHANGE in leadership.
It's not 'literally what you said', and if you can't understand, you need to read before you comment. It has fuck all to do with being 'prideful'.
@@Ruylopez778 Then make a full commitment back in immediately.
If it has nothing to do with pride, then Honda would have no problem just saying "Hey, we're back and we want you to see it."
@@ApexwithDavin You have no understanding of the complexity involved.
you sound like the typical weirdo that wants to simplify everything to your opinion, just to make snarky comments and jump to conclusions. No insight.
Different management make different decisions based on the global economy, the outlook, technology, marketing, public opinion etc. You don't make commitments overnight, and not without assurances.
They also have to consider what RB want from a partnership after 2025. RB are obviously quite particular about their IP and strategy.
They're already in 13 or more other championships/series. It's highly debatable whether they would gain sufficient marketing exposure to justify the costs, so there has to be some technological benefit with the regulations also - like sustainable fuels and battery tech.
And any fan who cares about F1 knows Honda are in the championship, anyway.
6:22 I wish they would just use this livery at every race it looks so good.
This is exactly why F1 and Red Bull need Honda. 👍 Every Red Bull Honda fan can look at the Civic’s and CR-V’s in their garage with pride.
Honda is ridiculous because of its stock holders and some top executives hating F1. Yes, Honda has 2 groups within, one who love F1 and one who hate F1. Last CEO hated F1 because it does not make any money for them. Lets just say Honda didnt make any money because they didnt even market F1 a lot at their dealerships in Japan. Only Kei-cars, to be honest. Honda and F1 should not be apart, its their strength, even Toyota could not do it.
The stars alighted tbh, the engine freeze, Porsche deal falling through, Redbull's current form and not to mention a competitive masterpiece engine after all the trials and failures.
Thinking about Honda's F1 return and where their Power Unit is now. Even if their brand isn't on the cars, the whole world knows that VTEC is kicking in. Welcome back HONDA🇯🇵
Wouldn't be a scott mitchell video if he didn't somehow manage to worm in some saltiness about last year.
To begin with, it's a very weird decision for honda to pull out. First of all, since their return with mclaren, they have come a long way and they are finally tasting success, and then all of a sudden they just give up. And neither do their engineers would like this decision, I mean, given you have proven you have the ability to be very competitive and go toe-to-toe with all the other top teams, suddenly all the years of hard works just... abandoned, worse more, they abandoned the f1 project just to go back to designing economy cars.
This is exactly why F1 and Red Bull need Honda. They are better off together than apart 👍. Every Red Bull Honda fan can look at the Civic’s and CR-V’s in their garage with pride.
Was this video brought to us by Fast and Loose? I can’t remember…
After "working" with Mclaren it is not so confusing to see why Honda did not want to continue. The public face of that relationship was marred by criticism bordering on abuse at times by Mclaren towards Honda. Looking back it is clear the problems at Mclaren were not Honda or drivers. Many of their issues continue including the public trashing of another current elite driver.
From Honda's perspective look at how they are treated by Red Bull. Constant respect and positivity shown and inclusive behaviours by both, further illustrate the less than optimal nature of Mclarens treatment toward Honda.
This context should help alleviate some confusion.
Such great news to see them “step back” in. Great motors for road and track.
Yep. Honda’s engineering really deserves more recognition. A full Honda garage with Civic Type R’s, Acura MDX Type S’s, and Honda lawnmowers would be awesome
I again I'm putting alot if this on the FIA it took a WHOLE year to get a set list of engine regulations that just so happened to line up with everything the company wants.
A less expensive over all
Saves them money
More electrical power
Aligns with their global vision
Carbon neutral fuels
Perfect for their green mission
Can we have the 2021 japanese special livery on the cars for this week? 😍
I truly believe Red Bull's success convinced Honda to reverse the decision and carry on.
Seeing the commercials that shows their “championship winning card” I’m not surprised by this.
100% chance of rain tomorrow at Suzuka so I’m taking my duck gear. An 80% chance of rain on Sunday 80 to 90% of the race will be on those ugly blue tires. It’s going to be a lot of fun out there sorry you guys can’t be there.
@MPG Suzuka is going to tear those wet weather tires to pieces maybe five or six laps max pre set.
The problem Honda faces is having to face scrutiny in the ev world if they’re backing a major racing team that does not use fully electric motors. In my opinion, Honda could still kill the championship. If they wanted to make a difference, they could push for F1 to use ev’s for transportation of the massive haul they move every weekend. That would make a bigger positive impact in becoming green, while leaving the motorsport intact
It was always about Honda cost cutting to manage the changes in the automotive world.
Anything less than a full works commitment would be seen as leaving as people cannot see or understand anything in between when infact inbetween was what Hond and Redbull had been targeting all this time.
With RedBull footing more of the cost Honda cannot have the same logo prominence on the car giving rise to the confusion.
Honda and Redbull merely negotiated on the expenses not Honda leaving completely.
It never made sense to me why they would want to remove their branding when they didn't have to do any major work producing their engines and almost have free branding on the car
they did produce the engines .
I wonder whether part of this was because there was the potential for Porsche to rebadge their engines and muscle in on the success without Honda getting any credit.
Wish they’d just admit they were wrong and recommit
Honda coming back in fully reminds me of Mr Satan taking credit for the wins in DBZ
From everything I have read it's down to the fact that Red Bull are still using the Honda engine and Honda not being happy with the lack of Honda branding on the Red Bull, we may see even more next year if they can afford it 😜
Everyone knows that the so called Powertrain is still Honda in all but name.
It's only right they get the credit they deserve for helping Red Bull win the both titles this year and their name is back on the Engine.
Honda has an amazing talent to leave F1 right before things would turn out well
Red Bull needs them. It was very ambitious to go with their Power Trains. They understand it was too bold of a move.
Honda is like the undecided ex who called the break up but keeps on coming back like the break up never happened.
Honda have a history in F1 if coming in as a new team, and as an engine supplier, since the 1960,s difficult to predict what they will do in the future.
This is the same Honda that designed and gave away the car that eventually became a F1 championship winner back in 2009. Although part of the success of the Brawn GP car was it had a Mercedes engine in it.
Honda have missed on so much free branding and praise from this 2022 season when they/RBPT have been a really good engine most likely the best engine overall on the grid
It’s only natural they want their name to be more prominent again also wouldn’t be surprised if they’re back by 2026 they clearly have a good thing going with RB/AT
Can't blame them for back peddling their move. I'm sure they regret their decision after Verstappen won last years Championship, and is on track to win the 2022 Championship, along with what is seemingly to become RedBull securing their first Constructors Championship in years.
If there ever was a time to run that white Honda tribute livery, this is it. GET THAT SHIT ON THE CARS STAT. Legit one of if not the most beautiful F1 cars i’ve seen in recent times.
If anything, this just shows that RB clearly cannot run the powertrains division by themselves, hence the 'desperation' to get someone in to join them. First Porsche, now Honda.
Thankfully they at least had an HRC logo until now at least otherwise they would have had zero visibility in a season that turned out to be unexpectedly dominant for Red Bull. Unexpectedly because no one expected Ferrari to screw up so much and for Mercedes to not get it right with the new regs.
I understand why red Bull would be interested in a reunion with Honda. Though if Red Bull was still interested in a larger party to be involved in RPT why would they not be interested in Porsche who’s in it for the long term or at least through the next 6 years of engine regulation
Good to have you back Honda!
I'm just happy Honda is back. Please don't quit midway again. 🙏
To be fair to Honda, they had some alonso level timing with their “departure”
Nothings changed. They replaced HRC (HONDA Racing Corporation, well known in motorbike racing and it actually said 'Honda Racing' under the logo on the car all year) logo for a Honda logo. Still a very small logo.
To be clear, Honda stepped back because they couldn't get the PR value from F1 they expected. Nobody cared about Honda, including Red Bull who hardly ever mentioned the brand if it wasn't necessary. They spend billions on F1. The amount of ads you can buy from that will do more for you than F1 involvement, especially for Honda who always are walking uphill when it comes to getting credit for their effort. Everyone stumbled over each other the moment Audi/Porsche even farted in the direction of F1. Honda the media mostly mentioned when they were failing at McLaren, with the 'truth' that it was all Honda's fault and not in any way McLaren's.
Apart from the PR, it's simply true that it doesn't make sense to spend so much money on F1 that doesn't do anything for you while the are behind on EV technology.
Basically Honda has struggled for a few years in this hybrid era so they wanted to leave the sport but now Red Bull is winning championships they probably want back in to get more recognition for Red Bulls success
Is there something in the regulations that allow Honda to develop in a different method by not being directly involved?
Honda just has to meet their quota of ‘leaving F1 at random times for little to no reason’ they have been a bit behind recently.
-It's still Honda?
-Always has been 🔫
honda just pulled "dad came home from milk" to RB
Your sponsor sounds like a nickname I’d give my ex
💯The real reason the Red Bull Porsche deal fell through
well, it looks to me that Honda learned from their 2008 mistake to sell off their factory team to Ross Brawn when they had a championship winning machine for the following year.
Honda is very unstable in decision making. Confused Honda
The Race: You’d be forgiven for asking what the hell Honda are playing at.
I’ve stopped asking that question….
Honda built the best chassis for 2009 after years of struggling but left and the car did not race under its name and then built the best engine for 2022 (after years of struggling until '21) and then left before racing with is full name.
It's a pattern, glad it's back though!
It’s not about regrets…
It’s race passion
I just realize,... *Honda is a Tsundere* 😅😅
Honda - _" I Hate you, I'm Leaving"_
Honda - _" Ok, I'm staying but, not because I like you or anything"_
Honda - _" Do you want me to stay? Not that I care"_
🤣🤣
Do they not get extra budget for new engine developers ? Like a loop hole as they left and are technically a new engine supplier
The whole thing sounded to me like a world championship of creative accounting for big teams from the get go.
No, I don't think so, given that they designed the direct predecessor to the 2026 engine if they were to return to F1.
@@halofreak1990 the 2026 engine will be entirely different though although still a 1.6 v6 it has to be more efficient , the bottom end will be limited development but the upper half will be free to develop with less exotic materials and the electrical storage and recovery will be different aswell
Mercedes and Porshe disliked this video
in/out, confusing messaging. Other teams helping RB with an engine freeze so they can develop their own powertrains. Then Honda change their minds and RBPT will be Honda again. A bit messy. But it's Redbull and they have a huge fanbase.
The first video from The Race that has my dislike.
I don't understand the tone of this video. As a motorsport, it should be a good thing that there are more engine manufacturers coming in from the sport, not to mention a good one in this case, and the narrator of this video only sounds confused (somewhat justified) and annoyed (why?).
Granted that Honda's movement was indecisive, but its their own problem, and the decision is made by multiple people, at different times, and they even had a CEO change during that time as you mentioned. Why the hell do you need to sound that negative about a development that would only bring more competition to the sport?
Does adding Honda-RBPT to the list of Audi, Mercedes, Ferrari, Alpine (Renault) fighing for the best engine in 2026 sound that anticlimactic to you?
WRC fans have been vying for more manufacturers in the sport other than the usual trio for YEARS without hope, and now F1 stands at a chance to have SIX and the best you can do is to sound annoyed about it?
This is only so that porsche can have extra money without giving any reasons for the other teams to say "well porsche is not really a new to f1 because they signed in 2022" in 2026
I blame everything on McLaren. Honda's confidence was so shot from being publicly demeaned, they couldn't see the gem they had in their hands.
If it works and is winnning for both, there is not reason for Honda to not stay. Whoever made the decision to leave F-1 needs to get fired.
I never understood the whole "leaving F1 for eco reasons". Honda have continued to make engines for Indy Car and IMSA and never talked about leaving and F1 engines are more efficient than either of those.
It is not that confusing. They made an executive decision but don't really want to follow through. That is a normal thing in bit cooperations.
It seems to me that this was all an elaborate ruse by RB to stop its rivals in developing there engines and agreeing to an advantageous engine development freeze! It’s utterly disgraceful and I’m shocked at how Mercedes and Ferrari agreed to this arrangement!
The mistake here is focusing on Honda instead of RB. Keep in mind the decision was made by RB not Honda. The only explanation for this is that the RB engine is not happening and RB has to look for other options, including Honda.