now test not with variable throttle, but variable input voltage. should ESCs use a dynamic DC to DC inverted to simulate full throttle all the time for better efficiency.
This holds true for inrunner/car motors as well. The constant switching imduces eddy currents in the rotor which can make it very hot very quickly. Solution for this is splitting the rotor magnet into segments which is more expensive to manufacture ofc.
d-shot without filtering or rc smoothing. analogue with filtering, lots of it, bit of dead band to phase out the micro jitters. 48khz seems to be the sweet spot for digital, unless it is a micro tiny whoop then 98khz. Amazing how esc's have gone from mechanical esc's right up to 4 in 1 55a esc's on a 25 by 25mm board. over gearing or over propping a motor is the esc's biggest killer.
Wow, that's quite surprising. I would expect efficiency to go down, until 100% duty cycle which is kinda a special case. Does it mean that switching losses in FETs is the biggest source of energy loss in the system? More than wires/windings heating? Do you expect the same picture for any setup or could it be different for other motor/esc/prop combinations? Also want to point out that if we are talking about the 'whole system' then voltage sag in the battery should be a factor too. If you have 8.11V with no load, but 7.88V at 15.15A then it is about 3.5W extra losses in the battery due to voltage sag (I don't know exactly how it works, but I would expect that this energy will result in battery heating). It's not a big deal in this case, but I think it could be a major factor for crazy freestyle drone punch-outs, and that will bring down 100% throttle efficiency.
It doesn't quite mean that losses are biggest in the FETS. The motor gets warm during this process too. I expect the same relationship with all brushless motors and typical ESCs but to varying degrees of efficiency. I agree with the battery losses. Although the losses from the IR of the battery is not directly counted in this measurement of efficiency.
The way you explain things makes total sense, however the only time I get temperature warnings for my ESC through my radio telemetry is when I am full throttle. So I believe what you are saying but its counter to what I thought was happening. Now I wonder why I get the high ESC temps only at full throttle. (This is for my T28 RC Plane)
What you are experiencing is entirely possible. My test is in a controlled lab environment. Inside a plane has many stacking elements that will contribute to what you are seeing. For example, fly your plane for 2 minutes constant at 100% vs 2 minutes at 85% throttle checking temps before changing the throttle position.
Hi Ryan. This disturbing news, especially for those of us that do not and will not fly our jets at 100 % throttle. The question is. Why have a speed controller at all if damage is being done to it at lower throttle positions ??
Its not "damage" but just a loss in efficiency and an increase in heat. The speed controllers are still designed to handle the temps that were shown in this video.
Thanks for this video, I already knew this but I will defently share this video in my club. Its hard to explain it clear without pen and paper. BTW I am not sure but can you make A switch on your transmitter to make full throtle (on stick) to 80% ( software )will this help with temp of your ESC. I always thought it did but I am not sure.
I didn't follow the exact criteria of the programming you are looking for. But more than likely, what you are asking is possible on the radio used in the thumbnail.
I had an issue when I had a brushless esc 60A and a included motor 3650 3900kv but when I upgraded just the kv my built fan stops working and like Speed all randomly my battery is 80c 5200mah 2s and only with this +5200kv it’s goes warmer also I got less start push power from that motor idk feel like the motor is demanding more power ? Even at the begging it wastes a lot of battery I went fast w out tires on ground so fast but when I raced on ground it drain my fully Charge battery super quick ? So we could say higher kv motors will demand consume more amps even at lower starting speeds vs lower kv motors on same in my case 1/10 scale truck ?
There's a few dependencies to directly say that high Kv motors will consume more power at slow speeds as well. high Kv motors have the potential to pull more current at any speed but only if they are requested to do so.
So at least for EDFs it's a tradeoff between a cooler battery or a cooler ESC which translates to a longer or shorter life for either of them. If you use some throttle discipline, the battery will not be as hot or puffed. If you flew at 100% throttle the entire flight, the ESC will be cooler and its life extended. If you are flying props, you are probably not pushing the battery to its full potential or limits, unless it's a low TRUE "C" rated battery. The battery's labeled "C" rating is a joke as we all know by now.
Thanks for the comment. Not always am I able to get to the comments on the channel right away. Take a look at previous videos. Odds are majority of the comments where appropriate, I reply.
Anyone who's been in the hobby is entirely unsuprised by this, it has been standard for decades that running at part throttle puts more stress on certain components of the electronics, albeit the reasons have changed from ballast resistance to frequency curves and loading.
@@RCexplained When you edit videos you do it in such a way that next sentance begins 0ns after end of previous sentance. That is so unnatural. It is not about me, but about how you present yourself. You would probably get bigger oudiance, if made space between sentances like profesionals do.
This video is pointless because at full throttle, I will have less of a flight time.. why would someone want to go full throttle with a rc jet losing a bunch of flight time? Who cares about heat, we care about flight time!
There are more ways to fly other than the way you do. Im sure you acknowledge this. Most of my video topics come from suggestions by viewers. This was no exception. The request came from a concern about a destroyed ESC due to component selection and running at half throttle.
now test not with variable throttle, but variable input voltage. should ESCs use a dynamic DC to DC inverted to simulate full throttle all the time for better efficiency.
That's a good question and video
Sounds like a good test. I'll have to find the equipment.
This holds true for inrunner/car motors as well. The constant switching imduces eddy currents in the rotor which can make it very hot very quickly. Solution for this is splitting the rotor magnet into segments which is more expensive to manufacture ofc.
Is some manufacturer/ models with split rotor magnets for sale?
I only know of LMT, they use it on the bigger motors.@@R.B_B
d-shot without filtering or rc smoothing. analogue with filtering, lots of it, bit of dead band to phase out the micro jitters. 48khz seems to be the sweet spot for digital, unless it is a micro tiny whoop then 98khz. Amazing how esc's have gone from mechanical esc's right up to 4 in 1 55a esc's on a 25 by 25mm board. over gearing or over propping a motor is the esc's biggest killer.
I agree it is amazing to see where tech is at today!
a lifetime of full throttle finally justified !
Absolutely!
Wow, that's quite surprising. I would expect efficiency to go down, until 100% duty cycle which is kinda a special case. Does it mean that switching losses in FETs is the biggest source of energy loss in the system? More than wires/windings heating? Do you expect the same picture for any setup or could it be different for other motor/esc/prop combinations?
Also want to point out that if we are talking about the 'whole system' then voltage sag in the battery should be a factor too. If you have 8.11V with no load, but 7.88V at 15.15A then it is about 3.5W extra losses in the battery due to voltage sag (I don't know exactly how it works, but I would expect that this energy will result in battery heating). It's not a big deal in this case, but I think it could be a major factor for crazy freestyle drone punch-outs, and that will bring down 100% throttle efficiency.
It doesn't quite mean that losses are biggest in the FETS. The motor gets warm during this process too.
I expect the same relationship with all brushless motors and typical ESCs but to varying degrees of efficiency.
I agree with the battery losses. Although the losses from the IR of the battery is not directly counted in this measurement of efficiency.
The way you explain things makes total sense, however the only time I get temperature warnings for my ESC through my radio telemetry is when I am full throttle. So I believe what you are saying but its counter to what I thought was happening. Now I wonder why I get the high ESC temps only at full throttle. (This is for my T28 RC Plane)
What you are experiencing is entirely possible. My test is in a controlled lab environment. Inside a plane has many stacking elements that will contribute to what you are seeing. For example, fly your plane for 2 minutes constant at 100% vs 2 minutes at 85% throttle checking temps before changing the throttle position.
@@RCexplained by the way, your videos are great! I'm really learning a lot. Thank you.
@@malatoke thank you for the kind words.
Phenomenal
Thanks for the comment.
Hi Ryan. This disturbing news, especially for those of us that do not and will not fly our jets at 100 % throttle. The question is. Why have a speed controller at all if damage is being done to it at lower throttle positions ??
Its not "damage" but just a loss in efficiency and an increase in heat. The speed controllers are still designed to handle the temps that were shown in this video.
Hi Frank, as pointed out by nopy, the ESC is designed with this in mind. I didn't mention of any damage done to the ESC.
You had me worried there. Thanks for explaining it to me.@@RCexplained
Frank, I'd recommend flying your jet at 100% when you are comfortable. It usually increase the smile rate. 😆
But doesn't that use up the battery much faster and reduce flying time ?@@RCexplained
Thanks for this video, I already knew this but I will defently share this video in my club. Its hard to explain it clear without pen and paper. BTW I am not sure but can you make A switch on your transmitter to make full throtle (on stick) to 80% ( software )will this help with temp of your ESC. I always thought it did but I am not sure.
I didn't follow the exact criteria of the programming you are looking for. But more than likely, what you are asking is possible on the radio used in the thumbnail.
Allright thank you. It also works on the Futaba T18SZ
What could help or distort if we were to change the pwm hz for the esc will it respond slower faster heat up less on more hz ?
Response won't really be felt by a user in my experience. The esc would in theory heat up more but the overall power system would be more efficient.
I had an issue when I had a brushless esc 60A and a included motor 3650 3900kv but when I upgraded just the kv my built fan stops working and like Speed all randomly my battery is 80c 5200mah 2s and only with this +5200kv it’s goes warmer also I got less start push power from that motor idk feel like the motor is demanding more power ? Even at the begging it wastes a lot of battery I went fast w out tires on ground so fast but when I raced on ground it drain my fully Charge battery super quick ? So we could say higher kv motors will demand consume more amps even at lower starting speeds vs lower kv motors on same in my case 1/10 scale truck ?
There's a few dependencies to directly say that high Kv motors will consume more power at slow speeds as well. high Kv motors have the potential to pull more current at any speed but only if they are requested to do so.
So at least for EDFs it's a tradeoff between a cooler battery or a cooler ESC which translates to a longer or shorter life for either of them. If you use some throttle discipline, the battery will not be as hot or puffed. If you flew at 100% throttle the entire flight, the ESC will be cooler and its life extended. If you are flying props, you are probably not pushing the battery to its full potential or limits, unless it's a low TRUE "C" rated battery. The battery's labeled "C" rating is a joke as we all know by now.
More than likely the weakest link in the EDF setup will be the battery.
FET'S dont like holdings back current.
Hi Ryan. Is good to your videos and channel. If you answer the comments in your videos.
Thanks for the comment. Not always am I able to get to the comments on the channel right away. Take a look at previous videos. Odds are majority of the comments where appropriate, I reply.
@RCexplained Thanks for the videos and the answer. I know is not easy respond all the comments
Anyone who's been in the hobby is entirely unsuprised by this, it has been standard for decades that running at part throttle puts more stress on certain components of the electronics, albeit the reasons have changed from ballast resistance to frequency curves and loading.
Not everyone is an electronics engineer.
It's true that it's been well known for a very long time. Even so, its still a question I am asked.
hummm interesting is this the same for a car.
Yes, it's the same.
Me,,Sounds good....Batteries No it doesn't
Yep exactly, it's true!
People may not like my comment, but when explaining things it is better to speak slower.
You can use the built in youtube functionality to slow the clip down if you think it's too fast. Hope this helps
@@RCexplained When you edit videos you do it in such a way that next sentance begins 0ns after end of previous sentance. That is so unnatural. It is not about me, but about how you present yourself. You would probably get bigger oudiance, if made space between sentances like profesionals do.
@@maciekkormicki9298 I understand that. that's the best I can make the cut. I need a professional editor.
This video is pointless because at full throttle, I will have less of a flight time.. why would someone want to go full throttle with a rc jet losing a bunch of flight time? Who cares about heat, we care about flight time!
There are more ways to fly other than the way you do. Im sure you acknowledge this.
Most of my video topics come from suggestions by viewers. This was no exception. The request came from a concern about a destroyed ESC due to component selection and running at half throttle.