Timing Explained for Brushless Motor and ESC's
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 พ.ค. 2019
- What is timing within a Brushless Motor?
Timing is the relationship between when the stator is energized and the position of the rotor. Firing a winding within the stator at an earlier time advances the timing. A timing is advancement is known as increasing the timing. One could view brushless motor timing as similar to the timing on spark ignition of a gasoline powered engine.
Advantages of High Motor Timing
Increased performance by increasing the total amount of RPM output. Better synchronization between ESC and Motor when operating in sensorless mode.
Advantages of Low Motor Timing
Increased amounts of low end torque. More efficient operation. Cooler running power system. Longer run times.
Fixed vs Variable (electronic) Timing
Fixed timing occurs when the brushless motor has an adjustable end bell that allows mechanical timing adjustments. Another example of fixed timing is with most sensored brushless motors. In order to override the sensors, brushless motor manufactures will place in additional options for motor timing that allow some variability.
In general sensorless motors operate in a range for timing. The ESC is able to determine the best range. When a user selects the timing option in the ESC settings, they are simply dialing in to a specific area within this range.
#BrushlessTiming #motortiming #RCexplained - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
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I stumbled across this while trying to get a better understanding of timing, boost, turbo. Apparently due to your clear explanation, you’re still on top of the list years later.
With that said, I want to personally thank you for the time you take explaining everything clearly and in a way most of us finally understand. I’m 52yo and have been in the R/C world over 40-years now. From cars, to boats, planes, helis and drones, I thought I understood most of it until the sensored programmable esc/motors became mainstream. I figured with so many years of experience, these features were just minor adjustments and were just added more for the sales and flashiness of it all. Turns out it was just laziness on my part not wanting to learn new tech, because after your video, followed by some tweaks and Hotwire settings (TEKIN), boy was I missing out! What a huge difference changing the manual (can) timing, switching esc to sensored AND sensorless, then manipulating the turbo & boost to get BOTH low end timing improvements through manual, as well as high timing adjustments via the sensored electronic settings. So thank you for the lesson, your 10+ minutes taught me more than the past 5-years of reading manuals and playing with settings. I intend on watching many more of your videos (if still available) and getting my learning curve straightened out a bit more.
I am curious what the best way of knowing the RPM range of each motor is..? It’s not noted anywhere and I’m not sure whether the software just “knows”, or if maybe data logging might be the best way to go about ultra fine tuning hose parameters? I’ve done data logging on my full scale GTR quite a bit to get waste gates, blow off, etc. in sync with turbo. Usually send logs in for programming, but have made minor adjustments also. Hopefully I’ll find one of your videos about it shortly. Thanks again!
Great video!! I appreciate that you don’t “dumb” it down too much. While still giving enough info to make a good decision.
Your videos are the best!!! You focus on sharing information, not false entertaining. With pleasure, I watch your channel!
I wish you big grown!!!
Hi Jarosław, thank you for taking the time to comment. It's comments like these that make it all worthwhile and why I continue to pump out videos. Thank You for your support!
I know I'm a little late on seeing this video lol but very useful video, the way you explain timing, boost, and turbo where everyone can understand is great.
Thank you for your comment, much appreciated!
I'm glad I found your channel. I've been struggling with motor timing on one of my planes and now I understand it. Thank you!
Glad the channel could help!
One of the very very few videos 1 can watch all the way though. Awesome info thank you again!
I appreciate that! Thanks for the comment Greg!
These videos are great. So much info! Thanks!
Very informative video. This is exactly what I needed!
Thank you so much for taking the time to make these videos.
My Pleasure! Glad you like them!
Man this dude the truth....thankyou mannn I love u for this real talk
Thank you for talking about boost. I have been searching everywhere for an explanation on what boost is, everyone mentions it like its a known thing. I have a Hobbywing esc that I am using for speed runs and wanted to start fine tuning, but needed to understand what I was changing first. Great vid as usual!
Thank you Spacecadet!
You helped me so much to find the best motor combo system for my DR10 drag car. Stock Reedy is good but no I'm only keeping the reciver for DVC. Its awesome. I use Protexh shorty pach 2c 4900 size 120c.
Hey Casey, that's very good to hear!
Great video as always!
Thank You!
You just made my day. Nicely explained buddy😉👍
Glad to hear that! Thanks for the comment!
Thanks for share your knowledge!
My pleasure!
this video is really helpful
great video, thanks for sharing,
Thanks!
good video! timing I use on my ESC are between 23 and 30, but I guess it's the same logic
Thanks for the comment. Yes, it does depend on the ESC manufacture and how they decide to label timing.
A video on Battery Connectors for drag racing would be awesome. :)
Noted!
On brushed motor escs the turbo mode used to just switch a relay so the motor was connected directly to the battery.
Nice, appreciate you making this for us lol. I’ve got a new Losi DB Pro and it has a slight hesitation when accelerating from a dead stop. Also makes a slight noise so hopefully this will help fix it, pretty sure it’s normal but it bugs me so 🤷🏻♂️. Appreciate it.
Are you using a sensored motor? A sensored motor would remove any hesitation from a dead stop. Adjusting timing usually won't help this.
@@RCexplained I had no clue until I just looked it up and it’s the “Spektrum Firma® 4-Pole 3150” which is sensorless. Hopefully I can work it out, if not, no big deal.
Thank you.
Your welcome!
My mmx8s 1520-1650kv combo is running 10° of timing from the factory, if I bumped it back to maybe 6° or 8° of timing, would it make my motor run cooler, more torque, more efficiently, and less heat, but be slightly slower on top end? It's an off road build, needs torque anyway
If you have a motor that has Tynice adjustable on his, do you have to be center from work?
I lovr the castle mamba x cheat mode makes timing tunning fun
Right On, that's great!
2950 2 pole motor, do you have any suggestions on how we should gear it and how to set it up on the esc settings, it keeps doing 1.99 no prep and whatever we do we get 330 amps max and 12 hp. Seems that needs more rpm that what we currently get. The motor is 100k rpm and we only get 72...let me know what you think thanks!
So on a sensored brushless motor, only the mechanical timing on the motor can adjust the turning, not the esc right?
Hi my 14 pole 6s brushless motor having squealing sound at high throttle. Could this be timing issue? I changed timing to 22. But still getting that noise
Hey I have a Traxxas hoss that is stock besides 50 tooth spur and a 20 tooth pinion and it has a spectrum firma 150 amp ESC and a 2050 KV motor combo what should I have my timing set to to get rid of just a tiny bit of cogging I really don't want to go back down a tooth I mean I will if I have to I just can't find the gear at this particular time at my local hobby shop and I really don't want to order one but it's set to factory settings I think it's like 22.5 degree is it set to right now
What 6amp draw most people aiming?
I like your vidéos :-)
Glad you like them!
@@RCexplained ; I would also have liked your videos in the French language haha ;-) (I'm french)
my fms 1450mm Mustang did the squeal on a full throttle pull to vertical. motor stopped instantly followed by torque roll and crash.
If you have a motor that has adjustable timing on it, do you need a censored ESC to make it work?
I have a motor in a freewing moray...had to change to a hobbywing 40 amp esc...the motor looks to be 28 35 ,1500kv...i bench tested on low and med timing on esc..i can not tell the difference...i just want to know if i should set timing at low or med...i am using 1500 4s 50c battery...thanks
Low
Just the video I was looking for thanks!
Do you have a video on single vs dual motors by chance? I tried searching
I don't think I do.
What is the maximum amount of timing you can apply to a motor before it becomes inefficient? I have a hobbywing XeRun XR8 pro and it supports 48 boost and 48 turbo, and when combined with a possible 40 on the motor you can have 136 degrees of timing! I’ve heard that the maximum you can have is 60 total, is that true?
It’s late but doing my own research and R&D the motor seems to be happiest around 44-51 degrees “Combined”
Just a fun factoid. CHEAT stands for "Castle High Energy Advanced Timing"; it's a bit of a backronym. We thought CHEAT was fun because it wasn't common when we released it and was in the grey area of the rules. It kind of forced the "Blinky" rule.
Thanks for the insight Thomas! I didn't know this.
What does timing do I don’t see any performance when I add timing just more current an the rpm is the same
I rewinding with thick wire bldc motor. Why i can't increase speed the BLDC motor? Because ESC have limiter?
What should I set my timing on spektrum firma 8s 160 ESC thanks
What did you find out? I have the same setup.. did u leave it on zero?
Good info you gained a subscriber, is it possible to eliminate acceleration hesitation by adjusting the timing?
Thanks for the sub Sheldon! It's not possible to eliminate startup hesitation through timing in the testing I have done.
@@RCexplained Yeah I didn’t think so gotta go with the sensor
Can you use boost mode or turbo timing on a four pole motor
You can but I would not recommend using fixed timing.
Ok thanks so much I using the motor for 132ft drag racing so you would use it thanks for the great info
I drag race with sensored motor but certain timing tunes i use the car gives a rev limiter effect just before the finish line is that normal
Also what if i put the cheat mode to 20° @ 5,000 rpm - 25,000 rpm and my motorendbell is set to 20° when the motor is at 5,000 would the timing 40° and would it go back to 20° after exceeding 25,000 rpm
I'm not exactly sure what you mean by a rev limiter at the top end of your strip. Certain timing on your brushless ESC can definitely lower your ability to hit maximum RPM's. I would definitely want to make certain that any type of fixed timing is removed at high RPM's.
As far as 20 degree timing by rotating an end bell and then setting 20 degrees in your ESC as fixed timing, I would expect this to be adding. It would depend on whether your ESC is using the sensor data when the ESC adds timing. If the sensor position @ 20 degrees is used at the time the ESC is at 20 degrees of its own timing, these will be added. If the ESC is operating in sensorless mode, sensor position is ignored meaning that 20 degrees on the endbell is not used.
@@RCexplained thanks i was running 20°on my fixed end bell along with cheatmode probably that gives me the fluctuation in rpm (rev limiter effect) i set the endbell to 0 and the motor runs alot smoother
I tried a new cheatmode setting 21,000rpm/76,000 rpm and the motor seems faster and smoother thanks for the tip
@@racingrivals8934 Right on, that's great.
OK, so, question: can you lower a motor's timing for better torque and acceleration, and then set your gearing for top speed, taking advantage of both?
Yes, absolutely.
@@RCexplained Could you do a video on that?
😳🥶🤯
I'm currently build a F16 90mm with a 1500kv 10 blade with a castle 160 esc would i need to set a low timing it is going to be 8s.
I usually start with low timing on hot wound motors
my esc struggles to get the car going and i bought the programming card. i put the start mode at level 10, i'm not sure it helped. i don't care what the speed is on this thing. once you started talking about sensored motors i knew i'm on the wrong video because mine has no sensor.
This video is not specific for sensored or sensorless motors.
Really dumb question can anyone explain what boost and turbo are ?
Hi minez 408, on the radiocontrolinfo website there is more details. Follow this link: www.radiocontrolinfo.com/timing-explained-for-brushless-motor-and-escs/
With mmx8s and capacitor
Castle seems to be a very good brand.
Are other big names in Hobby in same class? I assume answer is yes.
Is this for a specific application? Boat vs airplane for example.
1/10th and 1/8th cars and buggy. A Slash 2wd, 1/8 4wd buggy for dirt.
@@tonyromano6220 have you looked in to Tekin?
PropWash Yes that is one of the brands I am thinking about for my top end rigs. VS display or light play RCs!
Onyx is good.
Guess your videos are pretty good. But my english isn't that good. And it's too much theory for my special use of the motors. Keep going dude
Hey stefan, thanks for the comment. You will see more and more practical examples on the channel. This is what I am working towards to include more of these examples as an experiment.
ok so basically leave it default 15. got it lol.