I dont know about worse but how Waltman was in NWO , DX and then NWO 2002 was ridiculous . Literally the best example of ''jobs for the boys'' . Before it was cool to say someone sucked ..... WWF crowds were full of ''X Pac sucks '' chants . The guy was such a mediocre worker but heyyyyyy he could drink and take drugs so he was ''over'' with the kliq
@@BOBBYSOX86Y'know what? I rolled my eyes at the Giant all the time back then. In retrospect though, that dude was thrown straight into the deep water with zero experience. I don't think White gets enough credit, especially when it comes to being 'The Giant' of wrestling. He was more athletic, and a much better worker than Andre. I'll bet plenty of wresters say the same, but only behind closed doors.
@craiggrayson9036 You have a great what if. I would put Giant on WCW side and add a few more to the nWo such as Buff, Hennig, and Rodman. I know I'm adding members, but it not to much more. I was never one of those fans who over exaggerated saying it was 30 members in it at the same time.
Bret was a heel in the US at the time he came into WCW - a lot of people forget that because of Montreal and the fact that it was in Canada where he was a face.
I remember an old NWO vignette where Scott and Kevin were selling NWO tshirts and it went like Nash- These are the NWO tshirts 20 dollars each or 2 for 40 Hall- You buy a million! It's only 20 million dollars! That still pops into my head multiple times a year 😂
Those nWo shirts are still a best seller for WWE to this day. They've probably made far more off nWo merch alone than they paid for all of WCW (which they got for an absolutely bargain of only a few million). Makes you realize how silly AOL TimeWarner were for selling it, especially for such a low price.
I feel like the first seven or eight members all made sense. Giant was the first defection and was pissed WCW (and specifically the Dungeon of Doom) didn't come to help when Hogan beat him for the world title. Having Dibiase as the original manager at the time made sense because it was still looking like WWF was invading and the nWo was "buying" the tv time to air their promos. Syxx, for the reasons Eric gave, made sense. Even Virgil as Vincent made sense, who was the seventh official member to join, because he was originally "Head of Security" for the nWo and hired by Dibiase, which served as a continuation of Virgil working for Ted. Also, he could take the bumps whenever WCW came out to fight off an nWo attack. After Bischoff joined is when I feel it began to be watered down.
Nwo is meant to be a wrestling organization not a faction.. hence it doesnt make sense to have only a few members. And it didnt water down the angle. The audience grew and ratings were the highest when they were more nwo members in the group.
Adding Randy made the least sense since the gang was founded on him getting beaten big time. The real Randy would want ultimate revenge! Not join them.
Agreed. Randy should not have been the recipient of the leg drop. Should have been sting or Luger Randy joining Nwo shortly afterwards would have made better sense.
@spikeohara4life meaning one of the faces for WCW who didn't stand for bs ! Randy has always been a fan favor! He could've did anything an we would have still love him ! Remember how savage was acting right before he join the NWO wearing all black didn't trust anybody and sting had to come get him out the ring one night? that's the savage that would've been gold for WCW but WCW focus to much on the bad guys an didn't have enough favorite able good guys to take down NWO ! Only goods guys Sting Luger Goldberg DDP Roddy Piper & two of them ended up joining NWO wolfpack could've made bret a WCW guy but that's what happen to him lol 🤦🏾♂️ ??? that's not enough good guys is basically were I'm heading! An could had Savage playing a major role into taking down the NWO right alone wit sting in others
To me, the nWo started losing it’s luster when former nWo foes started joining or bouncing in & out of it. Sting, Luger, The Giant, Konnan, Stevie Ray, Scott Steiner, Dusty Rhodes….
Agreed, especially Sting and Luger. The two guys who originally fought the Outsiders, plus Sting was their main foe for over a year. It just made no sense whatsoever that suddenly there's a faction of this group that he's just fine joining. They could've formed a "Wolfpac" faction and totally disassociated from the nWo, and that could've made some sense - like Sting and Luger helping rehab those guys. Dusty also - the guy most associated with legacy NWA (along with Flair) - never any reason he would consider switching teams at that point in his career.
@@daviderickson8699 there’s a theory about Sting’s gimmick that parallels the Crow: once the mission is over, the Crow loses his power. Sting did beat Hogan, in botched fashion, but lost his luster after the match. After early ‘98, he was an upper mid carder at best as opposed to an unstoppable force of nature that was more than capable of taking the bloated nWo.
There was one time when Sting with the baseball bat and showed the nWo he’s dropped the bat off the ring daring the nWo to engage him, I remember X-Pac gotten hit with Sting right fist and he was flying to the top rope. Sean Waltman sold really well. Edit: X-PAC? Excuse me, what was I thinking. Syxx.
People like Virgil and disciple made sense because they were “bodyguards” and you could job them out without hurting any credibility with the top tier members. People like Norton and Brian adams shouldn’t have been in. Buff and Steiner were both great.
I'm with you, Virgil wasnt top tier talent, but you needed that guy who the babyfaces could beat on without hurting the others too much. Waltman wasnt that guy, he was the guy to eat a pin in a match. Not just get beat up in a pre match segment. Virgil made sense, someone like sting coulkd clear the ring with only Virgil left, then he'd get the beating. What hurt the NWO was when everyone and their mothers became members.
I dont know when it started dying but when Stevie Ray was brought in and i saw curt henning on the "B" team i know it was done. Still the best faction ever. N.W.O 4life
@@michaelmercury1297 true Malenko Eddie Benoit Bret Hart Jericho Jim Ross ( Ross was taken off air by Eric bischoff on bill shaw orders. Bill was Eric mentor ) He let go of Mick Foley bcz of Mick risky behavior Then mick had the most famous matches in WWE . His matches are stuff of legends
With big talent came massive egos. You can see a lot of no selling and nonsensical matches back in 96-97 with those top guys. If they could all just work together, they would've blown WWF out of the water.
Was never a really big fan of them but love them or hate them Eric was a genius go back and watch the R.A Era circa 2004 when he was GM of Raw you truly have to understand what he could do especially comedy/ entertainment wise.
Whoa whoa whoa. Eric. Hulk wrestled 400 to 411 or 412 days a year. Those NJPW shows allowed hulkster to shock the international date and time line to freeze then spin backwards brother. Those atomic leg drops added hours to days and days to years they created so much thunder brother. It allowed hulk to change physics and control the date and time. That’s how powerful hulkamania was back then brother. 😂
Back in the Hulkamania era, Vince McMahon once paid Hulkster $1,000,000 to train the Moondogs and British Bulldogs to behave around the Junkyard Dog...because everyone knew Hulkster was a Dog's best friend.
@@AG-kb7yb Nah, Jericho's work still has a point. Not only is he good in-ring, but people being part of his groups gives them a spotlight they would have a tougher time getting solo. He's also a top guy who doesn't mind putting people over (Fandango, Swagger, etc.) if it helps build people, even if it doesn't always work out. Finally, he's one of the adults in the room, like Danielson, who can be a calming influence whereas hotheads like Punk can ruin a locker room.
Hogan, Hall, Nash with Big Poppa Pump and Buff Bagwell as nWo black and white vs. Sting, Macho, Bret, Konan and Rey in red and black vs. DDP, Giant, Goldberg, Eddie, Jericho for WCW and Flair, Benoit, Malenko and Hennig as the 4 Horsemen. So much damn talent and it was all wasted
Adding Big Bubba, Wallstreet, Hennig, Rude, Konnan, The Disciple, the entire Black and White (Virgil, Adams, Stevie Ray, Horace). I think Norton was a good heavy and Bagwell was a decent entry level heel. DiBiase was superfluous as well. The problem wasn't just that there were too many members, it was that they never lost. Watch Starrcade '97. It was supposed to be the WCW Strikes Back PPV.
Sean Waltman is really underrated for his contribution to The NWO, He was able to have a different style and different variety of matches that the other guys couldn't, as well as being able to fit perfectly into The NWO personality, He was an added depth to them
@@StevenBertuglia They may have gotten good ratings but they did the same boring ass shit week after week for 3 years and had way too many pointless members.
It went too far when Hogan started to add his homies into the group, the excessive winning and not putting over others. Then it was too much when they added the red NWO, and the LWO. It got absurd
Hot take: Virgil made sense. Was seen as a WWF guy. And was someone you could beat the piss out of in the nWo and it didn't matter. When the Giant was knocked out and Vincent went down to the ring poking him and then Giant woke up and murdered him was quality TV.
Why would you have a jobber in your Stable? Especially when the purpose of said stable is to take over the promotion? How does that make sense?! Not even from a booking perspective does it make sense.
@@ShadowAngel606 It can make sense if the jobber is there as someone who makes the other members laugh, a scapegoat when things go wrong, a gopher to carry bags/deliver bad news to other members, etc.
@@ShadowAngel606Gotta have someone around to do jobs and sell. Virgil was their stooge. Sting or whomever can come down and whoop up on the lower level foot soldiers/fodder. It makes perfect sense, makes the baby face look like an avenging hero while running through Hogan's underlings.
@@ShadowAngel606I’d argue that most stables need jobbers for two main reasons. First, if you’re a heel stable you need a guy that the faces can beat up without diminishing the main roster’s heat. Jobbers are great for this. Much like the Ministry with guys like Mideon. Second, if the jobber is young and talented enough, you can use their time with the more established guys to set up a push of their own. Kidman from Raven’s flock in WCW comes to mind.
@@ShadowAngel606 Jobbers make complete sense, especially once the stable gets belts. "Want a title shot? You gotta beat ... Virgil!" Then the main guys come out & interfere in the match so that Virgil wins. The challenger doesn't look bad because he didn't lose clean, and you've drawn-out your feud for another week or two leading up to the next PPV.
It was great when it was Hogan, Nash and Scott. I would have been okay if the Giant had joined them, and would have loved to have seen Bobby Heenan as their manager, but other than maybe Savage or possibly Brett Hart when he jumped ship. But, they could have or should have just gotten obvious favoritism in the programs, even allowing the nwo create matches during the events so they can cause chaos. They could break up tag teams and create mismatches of epic proportions. But, it was good while it lasted, even though it should have lasted longer.
Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall, DiBiase, Syxx, Bubba, Wallstreet, Vincent, nWo Sting, Rodman. That's all it needed to be, top ex-WWF guys with a few mid-card friends and muscle as backup. As that unit, they'd still be poweful enough to almost overthrow WCW with dirty tactics and everybody in the group would at least make sense in some way.
People that think the NWO should have stuck to 3,4 members miss the point of a takeover type storyline. 15 people are too much,but keeping it at 7,8 people with one wcw defector thrown in made sense.
Poor Virgil, he gets so much crap lol. And tbh, Idk much about the guy beyond the wwf days, so forgive my ignorance if he was just not good for the business or whatever have you. But any time people talk about him he just gets put down left and right, I can't help but feel bad for the guy.
It couldnt stay just Hogan, Hall, & Nash bc just 3 guys dominating the entire WCW roster buries WCW. 5-6 would be ideal. Macho joining made him look pathetic after all they pit him through. It was a "cant beat em join em." And he never fit in. Giant also didnt fit in either. So id go with.... 1. Syxx. He made sense. He matched their vibe perfectly. And could be a bump taker. 2. Buff. Every group should have a younger guy in it that its looking to elevate. And he matched the vibe in a different way. 3. I'd go with Bret Hart. With less members in the group when he came in, it would've been more surprising. While he did not match the vibe, he was a huge mainevent player, which the group would need sonce Syxx & Buff were not. AND when the time for the NWO to end came, the obvious rift would be Bret & Hogan... Maybe the rest of the group turns on Hogan & make Bret the new leader. So you get Hulkamania vs the NWO. Or who knows? Theres a thousand way it could go.
From what I understand, the original plan was to do a brand split, and have the two brands be WCW and nWo. If you watch some of the earlier promos, they talk about wrestlers having either WCW contracts, or nWo contracts.I heard they canned the idea when the first Souled Out PPV flopped.
@@Donny_1611 He was intense, erratic, & psycho. I wouldn't use those words to describe how the others acted... I'm not nearly the first person to say this. Pretty common consensus.
@@explosionsandstuff7787 Yeah. I think that part of it was a bad idea from the get go. You can't have one whole brand of heels & a whole brand of faces (who've been jobbed to death by the heels).
@@Donny_1611 You do realize we're talking about wrestling CHARACTERS? I have no idea what he was like in real life 😆😂💀 He's my all time favorite wrestler bc he behaved like an unhinged maniac. Great CHARACTER lol.
I'm kind of getting tired of hearing "Savage didn't fit" and then being the one to ask, "Then what about the feud with Diamond Dallas Page?" Does anyone remember those matches any more?
Hogan wrestling 300 times a year? I went to live WWF shows every year starting in the late 80s. Ive seen every big name except Hulk Hogan. He wrestled a handful of times a year for almost a decade before he got to WCW.
I always wondered if at some point Eric was trying to make nWo mostly if not all former WWE talent. IF you look at the members besides the core 3 plus syxx, you had Vincent (Virgil) Dibiase, Mike Rotunda (IRS) Big Bubba (Big Bossman) Randy Savage, Steiner, Hennig, Rude, Disciple (Brutis Beefcake) Lex Luger and Bryan Adams (CRUSH). The only ones not former WWE were Konnan, Giant, Horus and Bagwell.
All major factions should have a top champion, a midcard champion, and a tag team. Maybe throw in a manager and 2-3 other guys and call it good. If the NWO would have stayed with Hogan, Hall, Nash, Syxx, Steiner, DiBiase and either Bagwell or Giant, I think they would have lasted longer and they would have been more dominant. It seemed like it was completely watered down after just one year due to members being added every week.
The first part of this, talking about how the promos went... that's not the same story that Nash tells. That's why bischoff has such a bad reputation as being full of it.
stories can seem drastically different based on how the story is told and how the person believes it all happened. You also can't believe any of these people because they are storytellers. They all take liberties.
If he took credit for the idea of a B&W promo, I'd say you had a valid point, but he gives credit to someone most people never heard of. He easily could have said "it was my idea" and nobody would give it a second thought, but he made sure to mention the guy's name twice.
I agree here but I also think Buff, Big Papa Pump and Scott Norton were good fits. Norton had that bodyguard vibe to him.. which that's what they should of used him as.
They added Virgil because he was black lol Gave them more street cred in Eric’s eyes That’s where it should’ve ended Nash, Hall, Hogan, PAC, Konan, Virgil
Bischoff joining was the beginning of the end of the NWO. How could they be anti establishment while being bffs with the boss. And the boss was simping for Hogan. That's the opposite of cool.
Hogan was 42yrs, Hall was 36yrs, and Nash was 35yrs... It always makes me laugh that they acted like they were these young guys compared to Hogan. Career wise maybe, but they weren't young...
Fuck. Konnan wrestled at Starrcade 1990. Crazy. What I want to know is who got C -Murder to rap the Wolfpac song? Definitely wasn’t Jimmy Hart 😂 …. And one more thing… them kicking out Konnan in the Wolfpac was a huge mistake. I never looked at them the same.
He's the one who said all WCW wrestlers should join the nWo. It's his fault there were too many members. Besides that -- once everyone joins, who are the nWo fighting against?
I love the nwo . Nwo black an white should of been Scott hall Kevin Nash hulk hogan ..now I loved the nwo Wolfpack Kevin Nash sting lex luger konnan that was a great group Maybe added Scott hall to it then it better...now the nwo Wolfpack elites Kevin Nash Scott hall Scott steiner hulk hogan buff Bagwell lex luger that was awesome group but couldn't stay healthy..
Bischoff joining was the beginning of the end of the NWO. How could they be anti establishment while being bffs with the boss. And the boss was simping for Hogan. That's the opposite of cool.
Contrary to popular opinion, nwo is not a faction like horseman or dx, it is a meant to be another wrestling organization going against wcw. So it made sense to have many members. Another misconception is having too many members affect the ratings. It was the opposite. Their highest ratings were during the nwo wolfpack split and peaked at post fod at (5.0). Ratings only started to fall when wcw(ric flair) won, took over and they start to phase out the nwo..
Savage, Sting and Bret should have been the ones to destroy the nWo. Hall and Nash were adamant that Bischoff didn’t want them to job out at all, which makes the WCW guys look like chumps. At first, that’s cool but eventually you gotta pull the plug. Otherwise, WCW in 1998 is what happens. EZ E didn’t have that kind of foresight to creatively kill it off and he bloated the roster with a bunch of jabronis that had no business being the ring Hall and Nash. 20/20 hindsight is so damned useful. What can I say?
WWE pushes the idea of the nWo having too many people whenever they talk about it, but I think it’s just so they never have to talk about anyone other than the original 3
The nWo should have remained strictly ex-WWF guys. The Outsiders and Hulk obviously starting that off, 123 Kid/Syxx/X-Pac/Waltman made sense, Kurt Hennig made sense, Rick Rude made sense, even fuckin Virgil/Vincent made sense ( there was a place for that lacky who always gets whooped type of character in the nWo ). But guys like Giant didn't really fit the narrative because it was originally ex-WWF guys ( or what was supposed to be invading WWF guys ) who started it off.
Bischoff messed up the gift Vince handed him on a sliver platter. Bret was a massive baby face internationally so Wcw would have gained lots of that fan base by making him the face of WCW going against the NWO. Bret, sting, Luger, DDP, Booker T and DohBerg would have been a form formidable WCW stable against the NWO. Imagine Bret putting the sharpshooter on Hall and Sting putting the Scorpion Deathlock on Nash in the ring at the same time. That is something that would be a sight to see. Not the horrible angle of having Bret betraying Sting and joining the NWO
Never was a fan of factions where the champion had a group of quality wrestlers playing stooges following him around. Instead of all those guys wanting to stand and nod while Hogan ran his mouth, they should have wanted to face Hogan and beat him for the title. Same thing applied to Flair and the Horsemen when Flair was champ.
If Eric had gotten his way and had been able to spin the nWo off into a separate brand, then the ballooning roster and fragmentation that ended up happening on screen would have made perfect sense. Turner brass refusing that should have been the sign that he should keep the group fairly lean and mean. Size-wise, maybe about as big as the Dungeon of Doom, but that's it.
The only nWo members who should have been in the group were Hogan, Hall, Nash, Syxx, Giant, Ted Dibiase, Scott Steiner, Buff, Bryan Adams, and Scott Norton. Everybody else was a train wreck.
nWo should have never been more than 5 acrive wrestlers. 1 to be world champ, 2 to be tag champs, 1 for US champ, and 1 to be crusier weight. Then they could have had managers/valets. Anything more was too much. They could have kept the nWo alive for years, like the 4Horsemen, by sticking to this formula
Two biggest mistakes with the NWO storyline .... they let in way too many people and they dragged out the Sting in the rafters stuff three times longer than they should have .....and in the end he just joined the NWO himself which made it even worse. They had a great idea for a story but never had an ending ..... thus, it just fizzled into meh.
A faction like that should be 7 maximum because anymore then you are going to struggle to form a strong enough group to challenge them not just for story aspect but for booking aspect as if you do the culmination of the story at your biggest PPV you can have the card dominated by those matches making it the soul focus of the PPV and really emphasis it is the battle for the company. Any more guys in the faction and you won't have time to cover everyone and by that point, the talent involved will overlap with someone else, not making either truly stand out. 5 seems the ideal size.
Who was the worst nWo member? Let us know in the comments below!
I dont know about worse but how Waltman was in NWO , DX and then NWO 2002 was ridiculous . Literally the best example of ''jobs for the boys'' . Before it was cool to say someone sucked ..... WWF crowds were full of ''X Pac sucks '' chants . The guy was such a mediocre worker but heyyyyyy he could drink and take drugs so he was ''over'' with the kliq
Horace Hogan
Brian Adams, Bret Hart & Jeff Jarrett
Scott Norton. The guy was just crap.
Vincent and Stevie Ray also sucked.
So did Michael Wallsteet and Bryan Adams.
You guys have funny ways to spell "David Flair".
Adding the giant was when it got stupid and made no sense. They already didn’t have enough main event wcw guys to challenge them
True. Then it was Luger. I was like. Hmmmmmm once sting joined I STOPPED. WCW WAS DEAD TO ME
Giant made sense at the time. He was the first defection and the fourth member of the group.
Giant was corny and cringe. He tried to hard to be funny and cool. He didn't fit the NWO at all.
Yup.
@@BOBBYSOX86Y'know what? I rolled my eyes at the Giant all the time back then. In retrospect though, that dude was thrown straight into the deep water with zero experience. I don't think White gets enough credit, especially when it comes to being 'The Giant' of wrestling. He was more athletic, and a much better worker than Andre. I'll bet plenty of wresters say the same, but only behind closed doors.
The worst addition that really mattered was Bret Hart. It should’ve been Bret, Sting, & Luger vs the main NWO guys.
WCW guys Bret , Luger , Sting , DDP, Goldberg, Macho Man ,Booker T, Piper vs NWO Hogan Nash Hall Giant Syxx Scott Steiner Konnan! This is my what if
@craiggrayson9036 You have a great what if. I would put Giant on WCW side and add a few more to the nWo such as Buff, Hennig, and Rodman. I know I'm adding members, but it not to much more. I was never one of those fans who over exaggerated saying it was 30 members in it at the same time.
Poor WCW Bret
Bret never fit the NWO. NWO was cool because of cool guys like Nash and Hall. Even Hogan got goofy in the end there.
Bret was a heel in the US at the time he came into WCW - a lot of people forget that because of Montreal and the fact that it was in Canada where he was a face.
I remember an old NWO vignette where Scott and Kevin were selling NWO tshirts and it went like
Nash- These are the NWO tshirts 20 dollars each or 2 for 40
Hall- You buy a million! It's only 20 million dollars!
That still pops into my head multiple times a year 😂
sounds iike some steiner math...turn out its just redundant
I remember one where Nash said "All proceeds go to the Ric Flair Retirement Fund."
Its important to remember that it was during the era of corny gimmicks so for them to act "real" on camera was genius.
Those nWo shirts are still a best seller for WWE to this day. They've probably made far more off nWo merch alone than they paid for all of WCW (which they got for an absolutely bargain of only a few million). Makes you realize how silly AOL TimeWarner were for selling it, especially for such a low price.
I feel like the first seven or eight members all made sense. Giant was the first defection and was pissed WCW (and specifically the Dungeon of Doom) didn't come to help when Hogan beat him for the world title. Having Dibiase as the original manager at the time made sense because it was still looking like WWF was invading and the nWo was "buying" the tv time to air their promos. Syxx, for the reasons Eric gave, made sense. Even Virgil as Vincent made sense, who was the seventh official member to join, because he was originally "Head of Security" for the nWo and hired by Dibiase, which served as a continuation of Virgil working for Ted. Also, he could take the bumps whenever WCW came out to fight off an nWo attack. After Bischoff joined is when I feel it began to be watered down.
I feel like the Giant didnt make sense both times he joined the nWo
Steiner and bagwell should have been the last. Maybe stevie ray because he was good in the role.
Adding a jobber never made any sense in what was supposed to be an ultra-elite group.
Nwo is meant to be a wrestling organization not a faction.. hence it doesnt make sense to have only a few members. And it didnt water down the angle. The audience grew and ratings were the highest when they were more nwo members in the group.
I agree with you definitely with maybe bringing Buff an later scott steiner,then that should have been enough.
Adding Randy made the least sense since the gang was founded on him getting beaten big time. The real Randy would want ultimate revenge! Not join them.
Agreed. Randy should not have been the recipient of the leg drop. Should have been sting or Luger
Randy joining Nwo shortly afterwards would have made better sense.
Randy was supposed to be the dean ambrose of the WCW back then but WCW screwed that up ! Instead they had him join the Opp 🤦🏾♂️
@spikeohara4life meaning one of the faces for WCW who didn't stand for bs ! Randy has always been a fan favor! He could've did anything an we would have still love him ! Remember how savage was acting right before he join the NWO wearing all black didn't trust anybody and sting had to come get him out the ring one night? that's the savage that would've been gold for WCW but WCW focus to much on the bad guys an didn't have enough favorite able good guys to take down NWO ! Only goods guys Sting Luger Goldberg DDP Roddy Piper & two of them ended up joining NWO wolfpack could've made bret a WCW guy but that's what happen to him lol 🤦🏾♂️ ??? that's not enough good guys is basically were I'm heading! An could had Savage playing a major role into taking down the NWO right alone wit sting in others
The idea of Randy joining the NWO came from Randy himself!
He saw how hot they had become and wanted to be a part of it
@@NoneofYabiz-rx3zi Exactly. This man knows.
To me, the nWo started losing it’s luster when former nWo foes started joining or bouncing in & out of it. Sting, Luger, The Giant, Konnan, Stevie Ray, Scott Steiner, Dusty Rhodes….
Id say Scott Steiner kinda worked out but the others i cant disagree with
When it got so big they had to do splinter groups.
Hall and Nash wanted Dusty almost as much as DDP.
Agreed, especially Sting and Luger. The two guys who originally fought the Outsiders, plus Sting was their main foe for over a year. It just made no sense whatsoever that suddenly there's a faction of this group that he's just fine joining. They could've formed a "Wolfpac" faction and totally disassociated from the nWo, and that could've made some sense - like Sting and Luger helping rehab those guys. Dusty also - the guy most associated with legacy NWA (along with Flair) - never any reason he would consider switching teams at that point in his career.
@@daviderickson8699 there’s a theory about Sting’s gimmick that parallels the Crow: once the mission is over, the Crow loses his power. Sting did beat Hogan, in botched fashion, but lost his luster after the match. After early ‘98, he was an upper mid carder at best as opposed to an unstoppable force of nature that was more than capable of taking the bloated nWo.
There was one time when Sting with the baseball bat and showed the nWo he’s dropped the bat off the ring daring the nWo to engage him, I remember X-Pac gotten hit with Sting right fist and he was flying to the top rope. Sean Waltman sold really well.
Edit: X-PAC? Excuse me, what was I thinking. Syxx.
Hogan, Hall, Nash, Bischoff, Bagwell, Scott Steiner, Syxx thats all you needed
That’s actually a very cool list!
The giant joined got kicked out re joined got kicked out again then joined up again in 2002
I always thought Scott Norton was under utilized. He was totally believable as a badass enforcer that was a good fit.
Konnan also. As Eric said, you’ve got to have guys that can sell at some point. Konnan’s attitude fit the group, and he could work.
I cant imagine the nWo without Scott Norton and Bryan Adams. They weren't main event members and should have been used for TV and US title belt runs.
People like Virgil and disciple made sense because they were “bodyguards” and you could job them out without hurting any credibility with the top tier members. People like Norton and Brian adams shouldn’t have been in. Buff and Steiner were both great.
I'm with you, Virgil wasnt top tier talent, but you needed that guy who the babyfaces could beat on without hurting the others too much. Waltman wasnt that guy, he was the guy to eat a pin in a match. Not just get beat up in a pre match segment. Virgil made sense, someone like sting coulkd clear the ring with only Virgil left, then he'd get the beating. What hurt the NWO was when everyone and their mothers became members.
Didn't Norton help bring nwo to Japan,? I could be off base here.
I dont know when it started dying but when Stevie Ray was brought in and i saw curt henning on the "B" team i know it was done. Still the best faction ever. N.W.O 4life
Something moves
Eric praises Hogan
This guy had the best talent and didn't know what to do with them.
True WCW had more top guy's then the WWE did, but WCW didn't know what to do with them.
@@michaelmercury1297 true
Malenko
Eddie
Benoit
Bret Hart
Jericho
Jim Ross ( Ross was taken off air by Eric bischoff on bill shaw orders. Bill was Eric mentor )
He let go of Mick Foley bcz of Mick risky behavior
Then mick had the most famous matches in WWE . His matches are stuff of legends
When the first name you list is Malenko you lose all credibility
You should be stocked and quartered for 8 hours.
@@JonySmith-bb4gx
@@JonySmith-bb4gx Steve austin, taker
With big talent came massive egos. You can see a lot of no selling and nonsensical matches back in 96-97 with those top guys. If they could all just work together, they would've blown WWF out of the water.
They should have kept the nWo at 4 or 5 members like WWF did DX.
everyone wanted to join to avoid jobbing it seemed like mostly..
Was never a really big fan of them but love them or hate them Eric was a genius go back and watch the R.A Era circa 2004 when he was GM of Raw you truly have to understand what he could do especially comedy/ entertainment wise.
They split up him and Austin running the show too soon.
Whoa whoa whoa.
Eric.
Hulk wrestled 400 to 411 or 412 days a year.
Those NJPW shows allowed hulkster to shock the international date and time line to freeze then spin backwards brother.
Those atomic leg drops added hours to days and days to years they created so much thunder brother.
It allowed hulk to change physics and control the date and time.
That’s how powerful hulkamania was back then brother. 😂
Super comment
Back in the epic Hulkster vitamin and prayer days, Hulk could pin the Legion of Doom under Demolition...for a five count!
Back in the Hulkamania era, Vince McMahon once paid Hulkster $1,000,000 to train the Moondogs and British Bulldogs to behave around the Junkyard Dog...because everyone knew Hulkster was a Dog's best friend.
NWO
The thing that made and broke WCW
Jericho was one of the first to recognise how pointless it was
Shame he cannot see how pointless his work today is.
lol@@AG-kb7yb
But hes la champion,the Ocho, and a wizard 😢@@AG-kb7yb
@@AG-kb7yb Nah, Jericho's work still has a point. Not only is he good in-ring, but people being part of his groups gives them a spotlight they would have a tougher time getting solo. He's also a top guy who doesn't mind putting people over (Fandango, Swagger, etc.) if it helps build people, even if it doesn't always work out. Finally, he's one of the adults in the room, like Danielson, who can be a calming influence whereas hotheads like Punk can ruin a locker room.
@@spartangrizzly3086 He definitely wasn't happy about putting Fandango over.
It should of been a stable that only lasted 2 years. In hindsight, jobbers or lesser tier wrestlers got paid so overall it was a success I guess.
Horace Hogan in there was a low point
Horace Hogan 😂😂😂 bootleg Steve austin with the Hogan name
Correction: Hogan was wrestling 400 days a year 😂
Still can't get over how Hogan slammed the 8 foot 700 pound Giant and tore all the muscles on his back. And didn't take any time off.
And that was in-between dates with Metallica, Brother!
um..pretty sure it was 400 times a day brother
Hogan, Hall, Nash with Big Poppa Pump and Buff Bagwell as nWo black and white vs. Sting, Macho, Bret, Konan and Rey in red and black vs. DDP, Giant, Goldberg, Eddie, Jericho for WCW and Flair, Benoit, Malenko and Hennig as the 4 Horsemen. So much damn talent and it was all wasted
Should've kept it to 3-5
Adding Big Bubba, Wallstreet, Hennig, Rude, Konnan, The Disciple, the entire Black and White (Virgil, Adams, Stevie Ray, Horace). I think Norton was a good heavy and Bagwell was a decent entry level heel. DiBiase was superfluous as well.
The problem wasn't just that there were too many members, it was that they never lost. Watch Starrcade '97. It was supposed to be the WCW Strikes Back PPV.
Dennis Rodman, Horace Hogan, Randy Savage, Queen Elizabeth,
Nah, that don't work for me, brother!
Sean Waltman is really underrated for his contribution to The NWO,
He was able to have a different style and different variety of matches that the other guys couldn't, as well as being able to fit perfectly into The NWO personality,
He was an added depth to them
Scott norton i always thought was a beast he fir the vibe of nwo when i was toung as a midcard heavy
Explanation for bagwell?
The first lot made sense as it was WWF V WCW
I was bored stiff with the NWO by the end of 1996. I mostly watched WCW for the mid-card and the cruiserweights.
Well that’s just you. WCW ratings till mid 98 say otherwise.
@@StevenBertuglia They may have gotten good ratings but they did the same boring ass shit week after week for 3 years and had way too many pointless members.
Bischoff doing all these shoots about WCW, most of the time he allowed it to happen.
It went too far when Hogan started to add his homies into the group, the excessive winning and not putting over others. Then it was too much when they added the red NWO, and the LWO. It got absurd
Hot take: Virgil made sense. Was seen as a WWF guy. And was someone you could beat the piss out of in the nWo and it didn't matter. When the Giant was knocked out and Vincent went down to the ring poking him and then Giant woke up and murdered him was quality TV.
Why would you have a jobber in your Stable? Especially when the purpose of said stable is to take over the promotion? How does that make sense?! Not even from a booking perspective does it make sense.
@@ShadowAngel606 It can make sense if the jobber is there as someone who makes the other members laugh, a scapegoat when things go wrong, a gopher to carry bags/deliver bad news to other members, etc.
@@ShadowAngel606Gotta have someone around to do jobs and sell. Virgil was their stooge. Sting or whomever can come down and whoop up on the lower level foot soldiers/fodder. It makes perfect sense, makes the baby face look like an avenging hero while running through Hogan's underlings.
@@ShadowAngel606I’d argue that most stables need jobbers for two main reasons.
First, if you’re a heel stable you need a guy that the faces can beat up without diminishing the main roster’s heat. Jobbers are great for this. Much like the Ministry with guys like Mideon.
Second, if the jobber is young and talented enough, you can use their time with the more established guys to set up a push of their own. Kidman from Raven’s flock in WCW comes to mind.
@@ShadowAngel606 Jobbers make complete sense, especially once the stable gets belts. "Want a title shot? You gotta beat ... Virgil!" Then the main guys come out & interfere in the match so that Virgil wins. The challenger doesn't look bad because he didn't lose clean, and you've drawn-out your feud for another week or two leading up to the next PPV.
there’s still time for goldberg to join the nwo and start a feud with the lwo.
It was great when it was Hogan, Nash and Scott. I would have been okay if the Giant had joined them, and would have loved to have seen Bobby Heenan as their manager, but other than maybe Savage or possibly Brett Hart when he jumped ship. But, they could have or should have just gotten obvious favoritism in the programs, even allowing the nwo create matches during the events so they can cause chaos. They could break up tag teams and create mismatches of epic proportions. But, it was good while it lasted, even though it should have lasted longer.
Hogan, Savage, Nash, Hall, DiBiase, Syxx, Bubba, Wallstreet, Vincent, nWo Sting, Rodman. That's all it needed to be, top ex-WWF guys with a few mid-card friends and muscle as backup. As that unit, they'd still be poweful enough to almost overthrow WCW with dirty tactics and everybody in the group would at least make sense in some way.
People that think the NWO should have stuck to 3,4 members miss the point of a takeover type storyline. 15 people are too much,but keeping it at 7,8 people with one wcw defector thrown in made sense.
Poor Virgil, he gets so much crap lol.
And tbh, Idk much about the guy beyond the wwf days, so forgive my ignorance if he was just not good for the business or whatever have you.
But any time people talk about him he just gets put down left and right, I can't help but feel bad for the guy.
It couldnt stay just Hogan, Hall, & Nash bc just 3 guys dominating the entire WCW roster buries WCW. 5-6 would be ideal.
Macho joining made him look pathetic after all they pit him through. It was a "cant beat em join em." And he never fit in. Giant also didnt fit in either.
So id go with....
1. Syxx. He made sense. He matched their vibe perfectly. And could be a bump taker.
2. Buff. Every group should have a younger guy in it that its looking to elevate. And he matched the vibe in a different way.
3. I'd go with Bret Hart. With less members in the group when he came in, it would've been more surprising. While he did not match the vibe, he was a huge mainevent player, which the group would need sonce Syxx & Buff were not.
AND when the time for the NWO to end came, the obvious rift would be Bret & Hogan... Maybe the rest of the group turns on Hogan & make Bret the new leader. So you get Hulkamania vs the NWO. Or who knows? Theres a thousand way it could go.
From what I understand, the original plan was to do a brand split, and have the two brands be WCW and nWo. If you watch some of the earlier promos, they talk about wrestlers having either WCW contracts, or nWo contracts.I heard they canned the idea when the first Souled Out PPV flopped.
@@Donny_1611 He was intense, erratic, & psycho. I wouldn't use those words to describe how the others acted... I'm not nearly the first person to say this. Pretty common consensus.
@@explosionsandstuff7787 Yeah. I think that part of it was a bad idea from the get go. You can't have one whole brand of heels & a whole brand of faces (who've been jobbed to death by the heels).
@@Donny_1611 You do realize we're talking about wrestling CHARACTERS? I have no idea what he was like in real life 😆😂💀
He's my all time favorite wrestler bc he behaved like an unhinged maniac. Great CHARACTER lol.
I'm kind of getting tired of hearing "Savage didn't fit" and then being the one to ask, "Then what about the feud with Diamond Dallas Page?" Does anyone remember those matches any more?
Thats why degeneration x was perfect. It was just the right amount if wrestlers, perfect balance.
It got stupid the moment half of the wcw locker room was getting out of nwo limousines. Like 3 minutes in.
Has anyone interviewed Craig Leathers like this? That would be worth a watch!
From the first era…….Virgil, Mike Rotunda, Scott Norton, Nick Patrick, Eric Bischoff, Giant & Buff Bagwell, Macho Man, Ted Debiase
Hogan wrestling 300 times a year? I went to live WWF shows every year starting in the late 80s. Ive seen every big name except Hulk Hogan. He wrestled a handful of times a year for almost a decade before he got to WCW.
he actually wrestled for 400 days a year
@@zeitxgeist That's right. I forgot about his time (traveling) in Japan.
Those B&W 4 Horsemen videos were classic. IDC how many guys were in those. They were gold @ the time. Nash as Arn😅
I always wondered if at some point Eric was trying to make nWo mostly if not all former WWE talent. IF you look at the members besides the core 3 plus syxx, you had Vincent (Virgil) Dibiase, Mike Rotunda (IRS) Big Bubba (Big Bossman) Randy Savage, Steiner, Hennig, Rude, Disciple (Brutis Beefcake) Lex Luger and Bryan Adams (CRUSH). The only ones not former WWE were Konnan, Giant, Horus and Bagwell.
All major factions should have a top champion, a midcard champion, and a tag team. Maybe throw in a manager and 2-3 other guys and call it good. If the NWO would have stayed with Hogan, Hall, Nash, Syxx, Steiner, DiBiase and either Bagwell or Giant, I think they would have lasted longer and they would have been more dominant. It seemed like it was completely watered down after just one year due to members being added every week.
I wonder if the original plan for hall was to make him champ at some point till his troubles got to him
I remember watching nitro and it was like every match the nwo music came on, I was so sick of that song.
The first part of this, talking about how the promos went... that's not the same story that Nash tells. That's why bischoff has such a bad reputation as being full of it.
stories can seem drastically different based on how the story is told and how the person believes it all happened. You also can't believe any of these people because they are storytellers. They all take liberties.
Nash is just as big of a liar though.
If he took credit for the idea of a B&W promo, I'd say you had a valid point, but he gives credit to someone most people never heard of. He easily could have said "it was my idea" and nobody would give it a second thought, but he made sure to mention the guy's name twice.
Sting beating Hogan at Starrcade should’ve dismantled the nWo for while. They could’ve come back a few months later and it would’ve been fresh
Sting beating Hogan *cleanly* should have been the finish instead of "That doesn't work for me, Brother!"
Eric was a Legend in the world of Wrestling.1993-2006
No
Why that dude has his hair like Paul from Tekken
I agree here but I also think Buff, Big Papa Pump and Scott Norton were good fits. Norton had that bodyguard vibe to him.. which that's what they should of used him as.
They added Virgil because he was black lol
Gave them more street cred in Eric’s eyes
That’s where it should’ve ended
Nash, Hall, Hogan, PAC, Konan, Virgil
Disco Inferno made it bad way too far when he got in it.
Bischoff joining was the beginning of the end of the NWO. How could they be anti establishment while being bffs with the boss. And the boss was simping for Hogan. That's the opposite of cool.
I didn't realize it when i was young, but yeah the nwo had a ridiculous amount of people on the team in WCW.
Hogan was 42yrs, Hall was 36yrs, and Nash was 35yrs... It always makes me laugh that they acted like they were these young guys compared to Hogan. Career wise maybe, but they weren't young...
Fuck. Konnan wrestled at Starrcade 1990. Crazy. What I want to know is who got C -Murder to rap the Wolfpac song? Definitely wasn’t Jimmy Hart 😂 …. And one more thing… them kicking out Konnan in the Wolfpac was a huge mistake. I never looked at them the same.
As soon as it went passed 3 it was stupid
He's the one who said all WCW wrestlers should join the nWo. It's his fault there were too many members. Besides that -- once everyone joins, who are the nWo fighting against?
Hogan was only 5 years older than Nash and Hall, so the Dad comment is strange. They were probably more hip to what society was driving.
I love the nwo . Nwo black an white should of been Scott hall Kevin Nash hulk hogan ..now I loved the nwo Wolfpack Kevin Nash sting lex luger konnan that was a great group Maybe added Scott hall to it then it better...now the nwo Wolfpack elites Kevin Nash Scott hall Scott steiner hulk hogan buff Bagwell lex luger that was awesome group but couldn't stay healthy..
Seven member's was great. Hogan, Hall and Nash, Buff bagwell, Scott Steiner and Shawn Waltman. With Eric just talking for them sometimes.
Bischoff joining was the beginning of the end of the NWO. How could they be anti establishment while being bffs with the boss. And the boss was simping for Hogan. That's the opposite of cool.
TV was like " That doesn't work for me brother"
Contrary to popular opinion, nwo is not a faction like horseman or dx, it is a meant to be another wrestling organization going against wcw. So it made sense to have many members. Another misconception is having too many members affect the ratings. It was the opposite. Their highest ratings were during the nwo wolfpack split and peaked at post fod at (5.0). Ratings only started to fall when wcw(ric flair) won, took over and they start to phase out the nwo..
83 weeks, and it was all over
Nick Patrick made sense, but it definitely had some useless members.
The NWO it was them all the time I just lost interest in them because it was all one sided
The moment they decided to add non WWE guys it didn't make sense to me anymore.
Savage, Sting and Bret should have been the ones to destroy the nWo.
Hall and Nash were adamant that Bischoff didn’t want them to job out at all, which makes the WCW guys look like chumps. At first, that’s cool but eventually you gotta pull the plug. Otherwise, WCW in 1998 is what happens. EZ E didn’t have that kind of foresight to creatively kill it off and he bloated the roster with a bunch of jabronis that had no business being the ring Hall and Nash. 20/20 hindsight is so damned useful. What can I say?
They no plan on what to do next, so they kept going
Hulk seemed older sure, but in reality Hulk was only 4-5 years older than both Hall and Nash
WWE pushes the idea of the nWo having too many people whenever they talk about it, but I think it’s just so they never have to talk about anyone other than the original 3
Even the janitors was NWO
It just got stupid past the original 3 personally they didnt need more than that. Its like they was running out of ideas
Its funny, Kevin Nash wanted more people in the nWo because he didnt want to get beat up by the faces when it was there turn to go over
I was just thinking the other day about this topic lol like how many members is too many?
Prime example of “less is more”
The nWo should have remained strictly ex-WWF guys. The Outsiders and Hulk obviously starting that off, 123 Kid/Syxx/X-Pac/Waltman made sense, Kurt Hennig made sense, Rick Rude made sense, even fuckin Virgil/Vincent made sense ( there was a place for that lacky who always gets whooped type of character in the nWo ). But guys like Giant didn't really fit the narrative because it was originally ex-WWF guys ( or what was supposed to be invading WWF guys ) who started it off.
Bischoff messed up the gift Vince handed him on a sliver platter. Bret was a massive baby face internationally so Wcw would have gained lots of that fan base by making him the face of WCW going against the NWO. Bret, sting, Luger, DDP, Booker T and DohBerg would have been a form formidable WCW stable against the NWO. Imagine Bret putting the sharpshooter on Hall and Sting putting the Scorpion Deathlock on Nash in the ring at the same time. That is something that would be a sight to see. Not the horrible angle of having Bret betraying Sting and joining the NWO
one of the lowest drawing wwf champions that Vince let go was never going to be the face of the company where the big boys play
Never was a fan of factions where the champion had a group of quality wrestlers playing stooges following him around. Instead of all those guys wanting to stand and nod while Hogan ran his mouth, they should have wanted to face Hogan and beat him for the title. Same thing applied to Flair and the Horsemen when Flair was champ.
Marks hate on Eric Bischoff... But they love the Bullet Club. . Um...
If Eric had gotten his way and had been able to spin the nWo off into a separate brand, then the ballooning roster and fragmentation that ended up happening on screen would have made perfect sense. Turner brass refusing that should have been the sign that he should keep the group fairly lean and mean. Size-wise, maybe about as big as the Dungeon of Doom, but that's it.
The fans were the ones who didn't want it to happen
The fans were the ones who didn't want it to happen
The fans were the ones who didn't want it to happen
The fans were the ones who didn't want it to happen
The fans were the ones who didn't want it to happen
They should have restricted it to WWF guys only. Keeps the original vibe of the group in tact
The only nWo members who should have been in the group were Hogan, Hall, Nash, Syxx, Giant, Ted Dibiase, Scott Steiner, Buff, Bryan Adams, and Scott Norton. Everybody else was a train wreck.
Hogan, Hall, Nash, Scott Steiner, Syxx, and Ted DiBiase should have been the group. Replacing Ted with Eric Bischoff always confused me.
nWo should have never been more than 5 acrive wrestlers.
1 to be world champ, 2 to be tag champs, 1 for US champ, and 1 to be crusier weight.
Then they could have had managers/valets. Anything more was too much.
They could have kept the nWo alive for years, like the 4Horsemen, by sticking to this formula
Ray Traylor and Mike Rotundo were great wrestlers, but they never should have been in the NWO.
For what it's worth... I thought having Nick Patrick join was a great idea. Seriously.
NWo should of only been
Hogan ,Nash ,Hall ,Syxx ,Nick Patrick (NWO ref)maybe Hennig and Savage along with Liz
Should've never gone beyond 5 guys. They could've wreaked havoc like a prime 4 horsemen.
Dude conducting the interview goes to my Treasure Troll's barber.
Nwo officially lost all luster when Nash was finger poked of doomed and that ended NWO
Two biggest mistakes with the NWO storyline .... they let in way too many people and they dragged out the Sting in the rafters stuff three times longer than they should have .....and in the end he just joined the NWO himself which made it even worse. They had a great idea for a story but never had an ending ..... thus, it just fizzled into meh.
Eric joining messed it up to me they started it off bullying him it made no sense for him to join
can't beat em, join em.
Makes sense, mark
Should’ve kept it to the original trio or even keep a minimum of 5 members
david flair was worse
A faction like that should be 7 maximum because anymore then you are going to struggle to form a strong enough group to challenge them not just for story aspect but for booking aspect as if you do the culmination of the story at your biggest PPV you can have the card dominated by those matches making it the soul focus of the PPV and really emphasis it is the battle for the company. Any more guys in the faction and you won't have time to cover everyone and by that point, the talent involved will overlap with someone else, not making either truly stand out. 5 seems the ideal size.
Sean Waltman was in his mid 20's during this time not his 40's lol. I'm tempted to call this entire thing bullshit just based on that.
Hogan,Hall,Nash,Waltman,Savage,Buff,ScottSteiner....Managers..Liz,Dibiase,Rude....Thats-all....The-Giant-shouldve-NEVER-been-in-the-nWo-and-needed-to-be-on-the-WCW_side-and-feud-with-the-nWo-group..
What is with all the bleeping? It would have been better to just mute the curse words. That beeping is annoying.
Say Hogan wrestled 300 nights a year in WCW is funny. He probably never worked more then 60 dates a year then.