@PlayersPurity I agree! There are many ways to exhibit strength and be strong, and them only showing one way, and doing a bad job of it at that, is depriving us of some truly amazing characters.
It because that some people are somewhat too stupidly blind and SJWs people are also stupid, too. Also, i prefer SJWs as Stupid Justify Whiners rather than "Social Justice Warrios" cause there is no social justice abot it what so ever, folks.
This whole thing of rejection of traditional femininity goes all the way back to Susan and Lucy from "chronicles of Narnia", we also see in "Game of Thrones" with Arya and Sansa. Arya's mistakes are always said to be "a kid being a kid"or excused for her "good intentions" but when Sansa is being immature due to her age or makes mistakes by expecting the best of others, she's dumb and deserves the abuse she received because SHE MADE MISTAKES yet Sansa is only a year older than Arya. Sansa and her wolf, Lady are a perfect parallel because more often than not, Sansa is paying for others' mistakes when her mistake was to do what she was told and expect the best from others. We also see in in "Mean Girls" as they become better people, the girls leave behind the color pink and wear more blue, green, and other colours more associated with men. Being feminine isn't a flaw, is a characteristic. Hollywood is just taking one harmful stereotype and putting other in its place.
Being feminine is not a flaw, agreed! It would be great if we were able to see more media that had well thought out, nuanced women, but it seems to be more of a rarity these days.
Susan and Lucy? Why tho? They even gave Susan a love story subplot with Caspian when there's none in the book. Plus they didn't lead battle charges. They just helped and support others. And Lucy is already extra special compared to her siblings, being the one who discovered Narnia and having the closest bond with Aslan.
Dang, and Wendy's roll in Peter Pan is such a rich and powerful one too. Girl is the one member of her family to remember and value her home and then leads like a dozen kids out of stagnation and into an actually meaningful life and family, all while facing her own reluctance to grow up. You have to twist yourself into a pretzal to interpret any of that as weak or uncompelling.
I agree! She is a wonderful character with many strengths and leadership qualities, and the fact that Disney misunderstood her to the point of going the complete opposite with her makes me so sad.
I'm not an overly feminine girl, but I'm not super masculine either. I like my hair short, and I don't like wearing dresses or makeup. I swear like a sailor. But I love animals, plushies, adorable things. I like hugging my friends, I like cooking. I want to live in a small apartment or house in the countryside. Focusing on one extreme is boring, upsetting, and irritating.
Most people are very nuanced and enjoy a lot of different things! I wish Disney would see strength in more than just one type of woman, since there are so many traits and personalities out there to choose from.
Peter Pan is the first Disney movie (animated anyway) to my knowledge to have multiple strong female characters with their own arcs. You have Wendy who can be kind and maternal but is still brave and develops enough to accept that she has to grow up. You have Tinkerbell who is spirited and feisty but also spiteful, easily jealous and easily manipulated but who also learns from her mistakes and shows selflessness by saving Peter from the bomb. Tiger Lily isn't as developed as the other two but is unquestionably brave in handling her situation with Hook and is THE first nonwhite Disney heroine who basically is the only saving grace for the film's questionable depiction of Native Americans, even people who criticize this aspect concede that she is cool and badass. There's the Mermaids who are catty and stereotypical mean girls but they barely get five minutes screen time. Even Mrs. Darling was well written tbh. This was probably the first time a Disney film showed that female characters didn't have to check just one box... even some live action films from this period didn't do this.
Yes! Tinker Bell became so iconic after this movie, that she was featured in their openings for a long time and got her own franchise. Not bad for a side character :)
@@jfk2428 That would be really dark, but also create an interesting dynamic for Tiger Lilly and the rest of her people to join the Lost Boys in their fight against the pirates.
@@jfk2428 I feel like Tiger Lily is almost as important as Tinkerbell in a more quiet way because she was featured in the early pitch art for Pocahontas during the Gong Show meetings and Katzenberg greenlit the project almost instantly which rarely happened. And while Pocahontas undoubtedly has its own problems it did segue Disney into a greater maturity and set the stage for Mulan, Moana, Brave, etc. So I feel like the animators knew there was potential to develop a full character by looking at Tiger Lily who in her brief scenes showed multiple facets in her personality (playful, stoic, flirtatious, a little sarcastic but respectful, etc.). And that's all the more impressive when you realize she barely even has one full speaking line
As a woman thank you. I love wearing dresses and skirts, I hate make up but I love boys particularly Star Wars boys. I love girly things, minus gossip. I am Autistic and I am now a med student.
Anyone who suggests that media aimed at children is inconsequential is incredibly foolish and irresponsible, and is likely either not a parent or does not take parenting seriously. Thank you for the great video.
The biggest flaw in Disney movies today, at least for me, is that they keep changing the original characters to these more masculine traits. There's nothing wrong with masculine traits but they shouldn't the original just create a new character! A love Wendy Darling, the original, and I would like the new Wendy if it was a different character
I did think it was strange that they have Peter Pan, who will never grow up, meaning they could pick a child to go to Neverland from a different time period or a different country even and tell that story, but instead they decided to stick with Wendy while changing everything about her.
As a guy, O'Malley from The Artistocats is my idea of masculine role model: be kind, be resourceful, help those in need if you can, and do it all while gleefully being yourself... and its ok asking for help and needing to be saved by two chatty ladies if you're drowning lol So yeah, in my eyes the new and improved Wendy isnt masculine, she's just a bitter jerk. Even if she were a boy I'd find him unlikable with that attitude.
@DeepEye1994 I barely touched on what they did to Peter in this video, as the point I wanted to make had to do with female characters, but maybe in the future we'll talk about what they are doing to the male characters as well! As the Peter in this version is also far from the Peter in the 1953 version, sadly.
I think making a live action version of Return to Neverland would have been more up the current film maker's alley. Actually it seems like it's the story they wanted to tell to begin with. Think about it. Jane's angst comes from being forced to grow up too soon due to war, while she views her mother and brother's playful nature unsetting. Wendy is just coping with the situation and trying to keep her children calm, but Jane doesn't understand this. So basically the Jane going to Neverland is a story about letting go of her fears and anger and allowing oneself to have moments of happiness. An honestly, I think the live-action version wants to tell this story, but there is NO reason to side with Wendy when WWII isn't happening and her father isn't fighting in a war. She's just angsty for no reason. Way to make her relatable.
@GleeChan Yes! Wendy's arc is to learn that it's ok to grow up, and Jane's was her needing to remember how to be a child and play, even in difficult times.
What especially doesn't make sense about Wendy in this version, is that her abrasive attitude towards her family has absolutely no basis in understanding. We never see her parents be overbearing or forceful towards her, her mother even gently explains why her going to boarding school would be a good thing instead of just saying it's because they tell her to. While being afraid to go to a boarding school can be a legitimate reason for conflict, it's usually because the child is afraid to lose their relationships with their family and friends. Here, Wendy has no positive relationships at her home through no fault of her family, so it doesn't make sense why she'd be resentful to leave for somewhere else when there was nothing for HER to miss. Not only is she neutral towards her own family, she treats them like a nuisance just for existing when there have been multiple child characters that have WAY MORE reason to not be happy with their family. Funny enough, they already did this kind of story right with both the book and film, Coraline. In the beginning, Coraline is also very frustrated with the sudden changes in her life. She's moved to a another place where she doesn't feel heard or appreciated for who she is, and so is lured into a fantasy world where she can have everything she's missing in her real life. However, while both are abrasive and often harsh about their actions, what seperates the two is Coraline has both legitimate reasons and character reevaluation. First, we actually get to see Coraline's frustrations for ourselves. We see that even though her parents love her, they're under a lot of pressure to complete their work on time and are implied to still be recovering from a recent car accident. We see Coraline has almost no one to talk to or confide in while they're going through these changes, and so she feels neglected. Second, Coraline actually takes the lessons she is supposed to learn to heart when she sees how many people have been hurt by the beldom and how she let herself be distracted by materials and shows in place of how she actually gets to know people. She acknowledges her own short-sightedness and realizes the importance of judging people by who they are, not what they can give you. And this was all written as another "children's" book that actually understands how children process the world and how they can grow up to be capable adults.
I completely agree with your assessment. There's a sad attack on femininity going on in so many movies and shows. The blatant disparagement of the pregnant Barbie in that movie, for example. It's all over the place. There's also an attack on masculinity going on too, assigning labels such as toxic to an entire sex, it's atrocious. Thank you for stating your thoughts, they are a breath of fresh air.
Well technically Snow White does express a wish to be a mother when she initially thinks she's going to be taking care of seven children rather than seven adult dwarfs, and even when she does realize the truth seems like she's playing house with them and "acting" like a mother while not expressly stating she wants to be one. Also Cinderella never stated it outright either but its pretty clear she's a mother figure to the mice and what's more this coincides with the King openly stating he not only wants a grandchildren and a "suitable wife" for his son but more importantly a "suitable mother" and considering Cinderella enters the palace directly after this statement it seems the film is basically saying she would be both. And considering she'd lived with Lady Tremaine most of her life I think its safe to say she knows what NOT to do as a mother and would be 100 times better because of it. That being said Wendy is the first one to really verbalize that she want to be a mother so there's that
Cinderella reminds me of my best friend's mom (who was a single parent) who would let me stay over and eat with them as a kid even though there was barely enough for the two of them and who never even once complained or made me feel like I was unwelcome. And she was going through all sorts of stuff we didn't even know about but never showed it or took it out on other people. I think it was smart of Disney to make her as contemporary as possible for the setting because I know for a fact I'm not the only one who has said something like this
I think a big part of the problem is that, some people can't just make the female characters good or competent in their own right, they have to be BETTER than any male characters. This means either making the males incompetent buffoons, and/or making the females girl-bosses. Neither of these things are very appealing to audiences.
@charlesajones77 I was so sad when I saw what they did to Peter in their live action version! I hope they learn their lesson and go back to making great movies with relatable, fully fleshed out characters soon.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions They will once I get a job at Disney as a 2-D artist. I'll turn things around at Disney and we'll make great blockbuster movies with awesome, relatable characters again. That I guarantee.
I think the root of the issue with modern Disney, aside from them giving us what they think we want, can be summed up in my own journey with traditional femininity. I'm a cis woman who was more tomboyish as a child and despised anything "girly" at the time. In retrospect, it was because I associated traditionally feminine things with a lack of choice, that, "You SHOULD be into these things not because you as an individual actually like them, but because you're a girl." It wasn't until I got older that I realized I DO have traditionally feminine aspects to myself and that they're me because they're me, not a conforming to what society expects, and that it's okay to embrace them for my own sake. I think Disney right now is going through the same process: They think presenting traditional femininity indicates a lack of agency for the characters and, while in a lot of historical settings that was the case, it doesn't have to be now in either the real world or fiction. What makes this modern trend even more frustrating is that Disney has shown in the past they know exactly how to create genuinely strong female characters whose personalities feature both traditionally feminine and masculine traits--ya know, like how actual people are. Esmeralda and the original Mulan are great examples of this, and they were my favorites growing up. The original Mulan showed that, just because you're a girl, you don't have to fit yourself into society's box of what being a girl means, and she did so while not being completely perfect at it all the time like the remake did. Esmeralda showed that you can fight for justice and stand up for the outcasts, herself included, and that doesn't mean you have to give up your femininity or reject the kind soldier who shows romantic interest in you. Disney's take on Esmeralda makes her one of their strongest leading ladies, in my opinion. This is a woman who can not only defend herself and her friends in everyday situations, but when she's made to choose between compromising herself by becoming Frollo's sex slave or being burned at the stake, she chooses the stake. If that's not a strong woman worth admiration, I don't know what is.
Live action Wendy is based on your average 16 year old , selfish attitude included. But that creates a plot-hole , how can she fly without truly happy thoughts? All of her memories would be tainted by her mental state. (P.S.) People who couldn't , or shouldn't , have kids feel worthless when they don't.
@@mmecharlotte , she could have come in later after she had some time to reflect. Serving as a decoy for Hook to shoot at while the real Pan sneaks in. I think we just wrote better than Disney.
Time to take notes Disney you have seen and heard of the recent successes of both the Barbie live action movie and One Piece live action series. Both properties had input from the author/ fans of their work. They told a simple story which established their characters and made sure it was fun to watch for most audience members who already loved the original product without alienating them.
If only Disney would have learned before we got this far, but here we are. I don't know where they are going to go once they are out of movies to make live action versions of.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions I've got some great movie ideas for Disney to make. Once I get a job at Disney as a 2-D artist, I'll create wonderful, beautiful animated films that are enjoyable, wholesome and tearjerking. I'll help Disney make great films again, I guarantee it.
@@annien.1727 For your sake and for the sake of people who love animated movies, I really hope so. It would be great to see a resurgence of great Disney movies.
If a Disney Princess is more though and has more of a masculine apearance and personality, then that´s toally okay bc women like this exist too. But this only works if she is a new princess and her own character (and still fleshed out). But if an already existing Disney Princess like Cinderella, Aurora, or Belle, all of a sudden becomes super though in a remake, then people won´t like it. And I think that ruins the spotlight and path for future tough Disney Princesses bc then people who will watch the movie will be like "ough not another "tough" disney princess"
Disney is in some sort of self-destructive death-spiral. It's remaking all its classics just to make horrible versions of them that few people like. It's bizarre to watch. It's like an artist destroying their paintings, except thankfully we can still watch the originals (if we have our own copies, I don't trust streaming services to keep them intact).
It is so sad to watch Disney go down this path, they were such a force to be reckoned with for a long time. The originals of their films are amazing, I wish we could expect the same from their new stuff.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions Listen, I'm not going to stand by and watch Disney collapse like that. I'll get a job at Disney as a 2-D artist and help them get back on their feet. This is NO joke. This is a promise. And I'm planning to keep that promise to the very end.✊🏻 Wait and see. New, amazing blockbuster films will be made by Disney again.
It's so sad to see so many media companies, Disney especially, go down this weird path of not wanting to show love stories on screen, or if they do, it's not like how it used to be portrayed. There is nothing wrong with falling in love.
Barbie was more about Ken having an identity outside of Barbie and healthy unreciptrocation for men, Barbie is unobtainable but there's nothing wrong with that that's just who she is, we need more love stories but not every story needs one
As a feminine black woman, I'm also getting fed up with these 'unlikable strong women who don't need no man' traits. Like, is this what little girls should look up to? Women that are mean, selfish and bigoted? This is why I'm creating different projects where female characters can be both strong and feminine.
It's not necessarily the past protagonist in "classic" Disney movies that modern day people see as weak. It's that the majority of these "classic" characters or adaptions, we're made by men. I'm not just speaking about Disney. Unfortunately that was mostly the only type of female character we we're basically forced to see, especially in regards to princess characters. I like the idea of my little girls seeing a princess or any female character being strong & being an equal to any character on screen. Not just reliant on her looks, appearance, or marital status. It's ok for a girl to look pretty & wait for a prince if she chooses to do so, but there is so much more to life than just that. Femininity shouldn't be put in a box ♀️🙌🏼 💖💪🏻
It is weird to say but i think it is true to say, Disney does not promote family, simultaneously belittling the roles and trying to market to their 'core audience'. The family. They both want to hate on family but also get their money. Then they blame some kind of -ism for their movies and other products not going well.
The funny thing is, the Wendy from the live action version sounds a lot like Jane, Wendy's daughter from the sequel. There WAS a story of a girl who was angry with the world and disillusioned by the ideas of classical femininity and didn't care about listening to stories, being brought to Neverland and acting out her anger on the characters there. They had no reason to change Wendy's character. After all, Wendy in the original story is the center of the narrative, being caught between two extremes: Pan, who symbolized staying a child forever but proving how immature and dangerous that could be, and Hook, who symbolized growing up but showing how that could turn someone bitter. Her point was that she was in between those two extremes. Showing her as moody and explosive and disillusioned shows that she's already abandoned her childlike wonder, so... what is the connection to the original story?
I hate how Disney is making everyone hate feminism when these movies have hardly anything to do with feminism. Feminism means "women's rights", not "women are perfect". These remakes are stupid!🙄
I was annoyed by the costume they gave her. I get they tried to say look how masculine Wendy is by not wearing a night gown, but it’s stupid, because that’s what she historically would have been wearing.
So, I realized after I finished the video that there is, indeed, one other female protagonist who expresses a desire to be a mother and be married in her main movie....Maid Marian in Robin Hood! I dont think it changes any of the points I make in the video, but it bugged me that I forgot about her 😂
It's been quite a while since I watched that; I'll have to check it out. (Support physical media!) I think you're right, though: the usual emphasis is on marriage, and while that implied motherhood back in the day, motherhood is a major point in Barrie's original works.
@@stephenrice2063 Yes, he talks a lot about mothers and their role in a child's life, I was so sad when that part of Wendy's character was taken away in the live action.
This Movie is Disgusting and Disney’s Obsession with Feminism is Ruining the Company, these aren’t relatable and Kind Characters, these Live Action Abominations are Stereotypes and Token Manipulation of Characters that’s a awful message to Kids.
I have a black Jamaican woman for a mailroom supervisor and special thanks to her, we’ve been working together for 14 years. She sure as heck didn’t have to be any of those type of women just to be strong and independent. She knows how to be a supervisor and mother at the same time to her co-workers and look at how successful I’ve become. Special thanks to her, she can take some time off from work just to take care of other way more serious important things in her life besides her job without having to worry about getting extra work to do when she comes back. I always make sure that my boss comes back extra work free by making sure I do my job right. For those in which I wish I could take off but can’t, I give it to her to do the next day simply because she has more experience and has been working there a lot longer than me, in which that is pretty understandable of course. Other than that, most of the time I can do the job on my own and that’s why my supervisor loves me a lot❤
As a kid when 2003 peter pan was released. As a little child I figured out at 6 years old that wendy in that adaptation she was a Strong character within keeping her femininity.
I agree. I think it's really sad that writers cannot recognize that the original Disney heroines WERE strong female leads. Snow White showed an unbreakability, under abuse, and remained positive against everything. Cinderella, similarly, never allowed her step-family to break her, but stayed true to her positive personality, and was kind to everyone. Mulan had no special powers. She was simply THAT DETERMINED. And smart! And brave. I can go on, but frankly, I'm tired. The point is, FEMININE CHARACTERISTICS ARE STRONG, IN THEIR OWN WAY. You think it's EASY to be nurturing? You think it's EASY to tell your little brothers, "It's better to die than to become a villain"? You think it's EASY to be obedient, when you're being ordered to do what you don't want to do (grow up and leave the nursery)? Of course not! But in her CHOICE to be meek and obedient, Wendy showed her strength of character, choosing the more difficult path, because she knew it was right. Being kind to the people who hurt you is HARD. Being optimistic when you literally just escaped an assassination attempt is HARD. Sticking it out, to become a soldier, is HARD. She took it on, in order to save her father's life. When she was booted out, because she wasn't good enough, she could have gone home, taken up her feminine life, and her father would still be at home, alive, and unshamed for his lack of service. But she decided that she would stick to it, because she had the brains to solve that first puzzle. From there, it was just a matter of continued practice and will-power. I mean, they were ALL bad, at the start. She wasn't the only one who couldn't run twenty miles, while carrying buckets of water. She was just the worst of a bad bunch, who ALL improved. And she inspired the others to keep going, because she was. Determination is a human trait, neither masculine nor feminine. But the remake ROBBED HER of that wonderful trait, and gave her innate super-powers, instead. HOW ARE LITTLE GIRLS SUPPOSED TO EMULATE SOMEONE WHO IS GREAT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUPERPOWERS?! Little girls CANNOT gain superpowers! But they CAN learn self-control, and the ability to delay gratification. They can learn to be determined. They can learn to prioritize. They can learn to make the hard choices and stick with them. They can learn to be kind, even to those who hurt them. They can learn to stay positive. They can learn to serve others. They can learn to embrace their best qualities. THEY CANNOT LEARN TO HAVE SUPER POWERS. Captain Marvel, the live-action Mulan, She-Hulk, are all BAD role-models. None of them are truly good personalities, worthy of emulation, and they don't offer anything that children CAN emulate. And Loki was an anti-hero, anyway. I have always been a Disneyphile, but today's Disney is doing a disservice to so many! Except in the Pixar films. Granted, I have not seen ALL the Pixar films, but look at Encanto! Now THERE is a strong female lead, who embraces her femininity, and that is EXACTLY what is needed to save the say - FEMALE POWER in EMOTIONAL LABOR. The fact that she does NOT have a super power is what saves the day! I LOVE Encanto.
I'm not that feminine, I'm gay and I look gay but I still do things like be into fashion, wear makeup and try to be nice to people, that's more personality than a lot of modern female characters in cinema, idk if you've watched Peter Pan 2 but even Wendy's daughter who's stubborn and bitter because she lives in WW2 is a more realistic character than Wendy in this remake, women don't have to all be mothers or be feminine or be nice all the time but seeing an actual human with fear, love, hope and kindness would be nice
There is nothing wrong with having a strong women as a lead, but the biggest problem with the Disney Strong Women character trait is that they have no flaws, no character arc, no sense of humor, and no personality. They are taking the strong woman persona the wrong way. Snow White is clearly going to fall into that trap, even Ziegler said so. They can also be sticks in the mud, especially in the films you described. There is a way to do the strong women right, like Mrs. Brisby from Secret of Nimh, she is has a strong personality, and she has to fight to save her son, but she is small and fragile, she is acrophobic, and she is entering a world that is bigger than her. That makes her arc a lot stronger. That is the key word, Arc. If they give these characters Arcs, we can relate to them, but they are not given arcs. They are born perfect and end perfect. This is not how to write a character. You can make them strong, but give them flaws they need to overcome.
Y'know, probably my favorite female character is Lessa, who manages to be strong, capable *and* a lover. She even insists on staying with one man in a setting where promiscuity is accepted. In short, it's not an either-or proposition.
Not a single live action Disney Princess has been accurately casted and reflected. It’s so sad because fans could make a better live action version of these movies if there was enough budget.
5:10 Wendy sword fighting might be a fun and exciting idea, but she really sucks at it. They should have spent a lot more time training her before shooting that scene. I adore strong women characters, but part of that is that they should be women. I just saw a cartoon called "Night Hood", based on the Arsene Lupin books. The female lead was a woman reporter who was a strong character. I know she was strong because she wore a man's suit, including a blocky fedora. Do the writers want an archetype for a strong woman? Look at Katherine Hepburn. Able to go toe to toe with anyone, but not afraid to fall in love. Having someone they cared about just made them stronger.
@JustClaude13 Katherine Hepburn is one of my favorite women to watch on screen! And yes, it would have been nice to see Wendy at least get trained in sword fighting before the end scene, I agree.
GOOD VIDEO, YOU ARE RIGHT about everything, I don't understand why these modern heroines have to copy the male behavior that they hate so much, only that when they do it it is a symbol of ''empowerment'' perhaps they don't realize the contradictory message In addition to being conceited, the ''modern heroines'' are eternal victims, even if you have all the powers given away and the other characters spend their time praising them, they still always have a bitter face because she is a victim of the patriarch.
New subscriber! I enjoyed this vid and decided to check out your others and subscribe. One request: I would love for your voice to be louder in the final mix. It's a little quiet compared to standard yt vids.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed our videos :) And thank you for the feedback about the audio, I'll do my best to have the sound be louder in our upcoming videos!
I'm gonna defend Captain Marvel because this is her character, it's her role to be the cool badass lesbian, so it's good for her to be stoic and hardcore; but everyone else? No, stop. And like this movie has Lost _girls_ ? As in there's more than one girl character? Then why the fuck are you changing Wendy when you have other girls carrying the load of not being traditionally feminine? This is peak white upper class feminism and I'm done with it
It's sort of sad that they messed up the new peter pan so bad, like the original was flawed and could've been improved by being less racist towards native people and focusing more on the narrative.
I had heard somewhere, when it was first announced, that they wanted to be closer to the book, which could have been fun. They failed at that even more than adapting the animated movie.
I think a lot of the ‘traditionally feminine’ traits of the earlier Disney princesses stemmed more from restrictive gender roles than in celebrating something profound about female nature. What are Snow White’s, Cinderella’s and Aurora’s ‘unique’ personality traits? Uhhhh…they smile a lot and talk to animals and are always nice and patiently endure a lot of oppression and suffering. And they’re pretty and cheerful and sing rather than be sad or angry. These are, absolutely, traits that are socially valued in women now and back in the day. They’re also qualities and social norms that actively harm girls and women. If other people abuse us, dismiss us or take us for granted, we absolutely SHOULD be moody, angry and resistant (with certain exceptions). There is no virtue or strength in suffering in silence - or with cheerful song - until a man comes along who is charmed by our quiet, self-denying inaction. I’m not arguing that all princesses should swing swords, and I actually adore that New Girl quote/scene. But there’s a world of difference between the femininity of Jessica Day (btw I’m in this category too, I’m girly as shit) - and the hollow femininity of the 3 original Disney princesses. And as for Wendy and the encourage motherhood thing. It’s a really complex and thorny issue. For one thing, girls of her age are being forced, in the U.S. and abroad, to give birth. Generally speaking, older sisters often end up ‘parentified’ even if they’re not bio parents (yet) - forced to stand in for the actual mom too often (needless to say, children being forced to be parents is insanely traumatizing). Of course any woman who wants to be a mom is welcome to it, but encouraging girls to want that is not a good or honest thing (or necessary! they're pretty observant just left to themselves). The ~aspirational~ aspects of motherhood are almost never in alignment with actual motherhood, and it causes child abuse/neglect, marriage problems and widespread exhaustion and misery in women. Also…we (generally speaking) don’t encourage boys to want to be dads, so we’re pushing a massive responsibility on little girls, since the time they're virtually babies themselves, that we don’t push on boys. We teach girls that THIS drudgery is FUN (diapers! bottles! actual peeing dolls!) and then as women we torture ourselves mentally bc (even though we love our kid) it’s not fun and games, and it’s way more work and just… sheer boredom than the ‘Being a Mommy is Fun’ toys told us. TLDR - teach girls to care for others/self, to be self-sufficient (cook, first aid), to be empathetic….but don’t teach them to want motherhood (they can figure that out on their own. Not saying to DIScourage - just be neutral. It’s an adult life choice no better or worse than others)**** I agree that the ret-conning of the animated heroines in the live-action films has become obnoxious. None of the ladies needed to be more girl-bossy. There were plenty of ways to demonstrate the complexity and agency of the characters (show, don’t tell etc). But the mess Disney made of it doesn’t indicate that the solution is ‘traditional femininity’ in the vein of the old school princesses. I think many of the 90s ‘princesses’ were a good attempt at course-correction. Belle, Jasmine, Pocahontas, Mulan, Esmeralda and Megara had combinations of traditionally feminine and masculine traits that made them more realistic, relatable, interesting - and far better role models. Kind of lost you at the end of the video, but I think that's something you'd agree with : ) It would be fun to examine how male domination of the entertainment industry has kept 'strong female characters' as two-dimensional - and ubiquitous - as possible. **I get that certain religious groups believe that motherhood is one of/the most important part of femininity. I grew up like that. It's hard to separate that out, mentally speaking, from definitions of traditional femininity. But I think it's possible to wear dresses and pick flowers and bake bread without also encouraging motherhood since before girls even know what a mother is
@@jfk2428 It's true that non-abusive men don't want to be abusive. I work with abuse survivors, so I see the truth of that constantly. Gotta be mindful of phrasing though - males (and females, nb people etc) who abuse *absolutely* want to abuse. They may swear up and down they don't want to abuse. But they do want obedient, submissive partners, and they do want to never have their authority and intentions questioned and they do feel there are appropriate social roles for different genders and they do think of themselves as more rational, worthy leaders and they do believe their partners and kids exist to serve them....etc. No one wants to *think of themselves* as an abuser, but that doesn't mean they aren't choosing to abuse every day in every little way. And you know it's a choice because they sure as heck don't act that way towards their boss or mom. They want to abuse, it's just the stigma and moral/social/legal responsibility they want to avoid
@@kittycatmeowmeow963 Absolutely! Religion was my focus in college, and I particularly enjoyed learning about the diversity of perspectives on various topics (from the nature of Jesus to what's acceptable to eat to gender and sexuality). One thing that always puzzles me is the insistence, within some modern religious communities/denominations etc, that there's only one right way to be a good woman. The history/legacy of Christianity (and other Abrahamic religions to an extent) clearly demonstrates this isn't true. Everyone has different gifts bestowed on them, and different paths to take.
I'm not a fan of the Peter Pen story in general, but I think I can suggest one of the things that was wrong in the original animation. It was made in 1953, and if you look at the historical context, female role models at a time, and basically all of the animation movies that were made from 1937 to roughly 1990es or sometimes even early 2000s, you will see only one role model for little girls -- a lover and a mother. Any Disney princess, any female character in an action movie, or basically anywhere else -- either want to find love or having a mother hen type of relationship with everyone else. I'm not saying it's wrong, or should not be in the media at all, I'm just saying that girls and people in general deserve to have more. If you look at the Peter Pan animation from today's point of view, it would be one of the many stories with girls that you have seen, and you can compare it to Barbie(the movie), The Owl House and so on. And coming from a bigger variety of archetypes for women, where they can be fighters, detectives, criminals, and also allowed to be sad and angry and have their own emotions, not only reflections of male characters nearby. Coming from today you can judge all the variety that was made for you, but looking from the 1950's girl point of view, she could only grow up to be a mother, which is not bad as it is, but really wrong if you have Only One option. P.S. I also think that making a little girl act like a mother, and not allowing her to have her emotions, and making her grow up for her little brothers to allow them to be children it fucked up. She is a child herself, why the fuck everyone else can have they childhood and she should be a mother?! Just because she is a girl? I am not praising disney remake in any way, they are homophobic exploitative corporation of evil, who have no idea what they are doing. I'm just saying that their originals also shouldn't be praised and considered as perfect, because they aren't
I understand that there were movies that had female characters with a love story leading to marriage and motherhood, but it is also inaccurate to say that all of them were that way. Alice in Wonderland, the animated movie, has no motherhood story arc or love story for Alice, and that came out in 1951 from Disney. I grew up watching a LOT of classic movies from the 1930s to modern day, and there is a lot of variety in female characters from that time. Bette Davis, or anything with Mae West, for example. She was portraying women who wanted to have a lot of men in their lives and would make a lot of innuendos toward and about men. Katherine Hepburn played many strong female characters over the course of her career. The movie His Girl Friday from 1940 has the main female protagonist who is a journalist who postpones her wedding and honeymoon to stay behind and get the exclusive scoop from a man on the run from police. Audrey Hepburn also played many strong female characters, and if you watch Funny Face, there is a female character who is in charge of the magazine. She has no husband, no children, and no love interests. Her story is about her career. There are more, but I will stop here. I agree that we need variety in our female characters, we are not all the same. But to take an already established character who DID want to be a mother, which a lot of people can relate to wanting to be a parent, and doing the exact opposite with her character, is where I have the problem. Also, Wendy in the 1953 version CHOSE to have her brothers come with her to Neverland. She could have left them behind, but she Wanted them to come because she genuinely loves to spend time with them. She is the first who needs to grow up not because she is a girl, but because she is the oldest. Her brothers will grow up when they reach around her age. All in all, I agree with you that we deserve variety in our characters, just as we have in real life. I also know that there is variety in these older movies, but unless you have sat down and watched them, it can be easy to think that there wasn't.
@jfk2428 I love seeing good sibling relationships in movies and TV! I know not everyone is fortunate enough to have that, but it is still nice to see as something we can strive to.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions Wow thank you for reply) I grew up in the 2000s, and didn't have the pleasure to watch those movies, and as I am deeply interested in animation, especially mainstream animation, that tends to reflect main social tendencies, as producers want to make profit, and people relate to naratives that they can experience (not the magic, but adulting/love/family/etc) Alice in wonderland is an awesome story, and I love it with all of my heart But, most of the stuff that came out those years will be something like Snowhite, Sinderella, Thumbelina, Alladin, Little Mermaid and so on. We have a bit of an exception in Mulan, Belle has other interests than love, but it still had that "marriage is the main goal" narrative. You can see other stuff in Hayao Miyazaki works, but majority of american animation will be quiet conservative in gender role aspect And about Wendy, will it change anything if we switch her with some of her brothers? Make a male character adult and take care of children? I just think that older sister = mother is a really toxic thing in mainstream media, I grew up in a quite abusive family, and have seen a lot of similar tendencies around, where parents will leave their younger children to the eldest female one. And it ends up with a lot of mental health and just general quality of life problems of said girl. Because if both parents are alive and they wanted to have those children, it's better if they take care of them Thank you for your time, I'll check up the stories that you recommended 🖤
@karaevilsky3012 I'm so sorry you had those experiences! I hope you are doing much better now. I agree that forcing children into parental roles is not good. I would say the difference from the original to the new one is Wendy's desire. In the 1953 version, she wants to be a mother, and she enjoys taking care of her brothers. In the new one, it actually comes off more as her being forced because they changed her character to not wanting to help take care of them, so far that she is outright mean to them. But I do see your point, and I think we agree on the core of what you are saying. I just also see a lot of really good things in Disney's classics and want to help others see that part of them, too. Thank you for watching our video and commenting! We love hearing other people's perspectives and opinions, thank you for being kind in your comments 😊
The Darling parents themselves are constrained by the customs of the early Edwardian period. The father is a stern figure who administers discipline. It would be overly familiar of him to actually devote a significant amount of time to them, since childcare was the mother's domain.
Femininity is a strenght, not a weakness. I really wish people would see it like that...
@PlayersPurity I agree! There are many ways to exhibit strength and be strong, and them only showing one way, and doing a bad job of it at that, is depriving us of some truly amazing characters.
It because that some people are somewhat too stupidly blind and SJWs people are also stupid, too.
Also, i prefer SJWs as Stupid Justify Whiners rather than "Social Justice Warrios" cause there is no social justice abot it what so ever, folks.
This whole thing of rejection of traditional femininity goes all the way back to Susan and Lucy from "chronicles of Narnia", we also see in "Game of Thrones" with Arya and Sansa. Arya's mistakes are always said to be "a kid being a kid"or excused for her "good intentions" but when Sansa is being immature due to her age or makes mistakes by expecting the best of others, she's dumb and deserves the abuse she received because SHE MADE MISTAKES yet Sansa is only a year older than Arya. Sansa and her wolf, Lady are a perfect parallel because more often than not, Sansa is paying for others' mistakes when her mistake was to do what she was told and expect the best from others.
We also see in in "Mean Girls" as they become better people, the girls leave behind the color pink and wear more blue, green, and other colours more associated with men.
Being feminine isn't a flaw, is a characteristic.
Hollywood is just taking one harmful stereotype and putting other in its place.
Being feminine is not a flaw, agreed! It would be great if we were able to see more media that had well thought out, nuanced women, but it seems to be more of a rarity these days.
What do Susan and Lucy have to do with rejection of femininity?
Susan and Lucy? Why tho? They even gave Susan a love story subplot with Caspian when there's none in the book. Plus they didn't lead battle charges. They just helped and support others. And Lucy is already extra special compared to her siblings, being the one who discovered Narnia and having the closest bond with Aslan.
Dang, and Wendy's roll in Peter Pan is such a rich and powerful one too. Girl is the one member of her family to remember and value her home and then leads like a dozen kids out of stagnation and into an actually meaningful life and family, all while facing her own reluctance to grow up. You have to twist yourself into a pretzal to interpret any of that as weak or uncompelling.
I agree! She is a wonderful character with many strengths and leadership qualities, and the fact that Disney misunderstood her to the point of going the complete opposite with her makes me so sad.
I'm not an overly feminine girl, but I'm not super masculine either. I like my hair short, and I don't like wearing dresses or makeup. I swear like a sailor. But I love animals, plushies, adorable things. I like hugging my friends, I like cooking. I want to live in a small apartment or house in the countryside. Focusing on one extreme is boring, upsetting, and irritating.
Most people are very nuanced and enjoy a lot of different things! I wish Disney would see strength in more than just one type of woman, since there are so many traits and personalities out there to choose from.
Nice of you saying that.
You swear like a sailor? Now I know you're a teenager
Peter Pan is the first Disney movie (animated anyway) to my knowledge to have multiple strong female characters with their own arcs. You have Wendy who can be kind and maternal but is still brave and develops enough to accept that she has to grow up. You have Tinkerbell who is spirited and feisty but also spiteful, easily jealous and easily manipulated but who also learns from her mistakes and shows selflessness by saving Peter from the bomb. Tiger Lily isn't as developed as the other two but is unquestionably brave in handling her situation with Hook and is THE first nonwhite Disney heroine who basically is the only saving grace for the film's questionable depiction of Native Americans, even people who criticize this aspect concede that she is cool and badass. There's the Mermaids who are catty and stereotypical mean girls but they barely get five minutes screen time. Even Mrs. Darling was well written tbh. This was probably the first time a Disney film showed that female characters didn't have to check just one box... even some live action films from this period didn't do this.
Yes! Tinker Bell became so iconic after this movie, that she was featured in their openings for a long time and got her own franchise. Not bad for a side character :)
@@jfk2428 That would be really dark, but also create an interesting dynamic for Tiger Lilly and the rest of her people to join the Lost Boys in their fight against the pirates.
@@jfk2428 I feel like Tiger Lily is almost as important as Tinkerbell in a more quiet way because she was featured in the early pitch art for Pocahontas during the Gong Show meetings and Katzenberg greenlit the project almost instantly which rarely happened. And while Pocahontas undoubtedly has its own problems it did segue Disney into a greater maturity and set the stage for Mulan, Moana, Brave, etc. So I feel like the animators knew there was potential to develop a full character by looking at Tiger Lily who in her brief scenes showed multiple facets in her personality (playful, stoic, flirtatious, a little sarcastic but respectful, etc.). And that's all the more impressive when you realize she barely even has one full speaking line
As a woman thank you. I love wearing dresses and skirts, I hate make up but I love boys particularly Star Wars boys. I love girly things, minus gossip. I am Autistic and I am now a med student.
Love to hear it! We deserve to see nuanced women on screen, too. Unfortunately, that is one thing Disney has not been doing great at lately.
Anyone who suggests that media aimed at children is inconsequential is incredibly foolish and irresponsible, and is likely either not a parent or does not take parenting seriously. Thank you for the great video.
I agree! Children's entertainment is important, and if done well, can be entertaining for the whole family. Thank you! 😊
The biggest flaw in Disney movies today, at least for me, is that they keep changing the original characters to these more masculine traits. There's nothing wrong with masculine traits but they shouldn't the original just create a new character! A love Wendy Darling, the original, and I would like the new Wendy if it was a different character
I did think it was strange that they have Peter Pan, who will never grow up, meaning they could pick a child to go to Neverland from a different time period or a different country even and tell that story, but instead they decided to stick with Wendy while changing everything about her.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions YEAH! Why not "Peter Pan and Brunhilda the Shield Maiden In Training"?
As a guy, O'Malley from The Artistocats is my idea of masculine role model: be kind, be resourceful, help those in need if you can, and do it all while gleefully being yourself... and its ok asking for help and needing to be saved by two chatty ladies if you're drowning lol
So yeah, in my eyes the new and improved Wendy isnt masculine, she's just a bitter jerk. Even if she were a boy I'd find him unlikable with that attitude.
@DeepEye1994 I barely touched on what they did to Peter in this video, as the point I wanted to make had to do with female characters, but maybe in the future we'll talk about what they are doing to the male characters as well! As the Peter in this version is also far from the Peter in the 1953 version, sadly.
I think making a live action version of Return to Neverland would have been more up the current film maker's alley. Actually it seems like it's the story they wanted to tell to begin with. Think about it. Jane's angst comes from being forced to grow up too soon due to war, while she views her mother and brother's playful nature unsetting. Wendy is just coping with the situation and trying to keep her children calm, but Jane doesn't understand this. So basically the Jane going to Neverland is a story about letting go of her fears and anger and allowing oneself to have moments of happiness. An honestly, I think the live-action version wants to tell this story, but there is NO reason to side with Wendy when WWII isn't happening and her father isn't fighting in a war. She's just angsty for no reason. Way to make her relatable.
@GleeChan Yes! Wendy's arc is to learn that it's ok to grow up, and Jane's was her needing to remember how to be a child and play, even in difficult times.
What especially doesn't make sense about Wendy in this version, is that her abrasive attitude towards her family has absolutely no basis in understanding.
We never see her parents be overbearing or forceful towards her, her mother even gently explains why her going to boarding school would be a good thing instead of just saying it's because they tell her to. While being afraid to go to a boarding school can be a legitimate reason for conflict, it's usually because the child is afraid to lose their relationships with their family and friends. Here, Wendy has no positive relationships at her home through no fault of her family, so it doesn't make sense why she'd be resentful to leave for somewhere else when there was nothing for HER to miss.
Not only is she neutral towards her own family, she treats them like a nuisance just for existing when there have been multiple child characters that have WAY MORE reason to not be happy with their family.
Funny enough, they already did this kind of story right with both the book and film, Coraline. In the beginning, Coraline is also very frustrated with the sudden changes in her life. She's moved to a another place where she doesn't feel heard or appreciated for who she is, and so is lured into a fantasy world where she can have everything she's missing in her real life. However, while both are abrasive and often harsh about their actions, what seperates the two is Coraline has both legitimate reasons and character reevaluation.
First, we actually get to see Coraline's frustrations for ourselves. We see that even though her parents love her, they're under a lot of pressure to complete their work on time and are implied to still be recovering from a recent car accident. We see Coraline has almost no one to talk to or confide in while they're going through these changes, and so she feels neglected. Second, Coraline actually takes the lessons she is supposed to learn to heart when she sees how many people have been hurt by the beldom and how she let herself be distracted by materials and shows in place of how she actually gets to know people. She acknowledges her own short-sightedness and realizes the importance of judging people by who they are, not what they can give you. And this was all written as another "children's" book that actually understands how children process the world and how they can grow up to be capable adults.
I completely agree with your assessment. There's a sad attack on femininity going on in so many movies and shows. The blatant disparagement of the pregnant Barbie in that movie, for example. It's all over the place. There's also an attack on masculinity going on too, assigning labels such as toxic to an entire sex, it's atrocious. Thank you for stating your thoughts, they are a breath of fresh air.
What about enchanted? Gisele is super feminine and happy to be a mother.
Yes, I love Gisele!
Well technically Snow White does express a wish to be a mother when she initially thinks she's going to be taking care of seven children rather than seven adult dwarfs, and even when she does realize the truth seems like she's playing house with them and "acting" like a mother while not expressly stating she wants to be one. Also Cinderella never stated it outright either but its pretty clear she's a mother figure to the mice and what's more this coincides with the King openly stating he not only wants a grandchildren and a "suitable wife" for his son but more importantly a "suitable mother" and considering Cinderella enters the palace directly after this statement it seems the film is basically saying she would be both. And considering she'd lived with Lady Tremaine most of her life I think its safe to say she knows what NOT to do as a mother and would be 100 times better because of it. That being said Wendy is the first one to really verbalize that she want to be a mother so there's that
Cinderella always had a very maternal quality about her at least to me - almost like she's the mother of the DPs.
Cinderella reminds me of my best friend's mom (who was a single parent) who would let me stay over and eat with them as a kid even though there was barely enough for the two of them and who never even once complained or made me feel like I was unwelcome. And she was going through all sorts of stuff we didn't even know about but never showed it or took it out on other people. I think it was smart of Disney to make her as contemporary as possible for the setting because I know for a fact I'm not the only one who has said something like this
I think a big part of the problem is that, some people can't just make the female characters good or competent in their own right, they have to be BETTER than any male characters. This means either making the males incompetent buffoons, and/or making the females girl-bosses. Neither of these things are very appealing to audiences.
@charlesajones77 I was so sad when I saw what they did to Peter in their live action version! I hope they learn their lesson and go back to making great movies with relatable, fully fleshed out characters soon.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions So do I. And thanks for replying :)
@@yourlittlesistersproductions They will once I get a job at Disney as a 2-D artist. I'll turn things around at Disney and we'll make great blockbuster movies with awesome, relatable characters again. That I guarantee.
I think the root of the issue with modern Disney, aside from them giving us what they think we want, can be summed up in my own journey with traditional femininity. I'm a cis woman who was more tomboyish as a child and despised anything "girly" at the time. In retrospect, it was because I associated traditionally feminine things with a lack of choice, that, "You SHOULD be into these things not because you as an individual actually like them, but because you're a girl."
It wasn't until I got older that I realized I DO have traditionally feminine aspects to myself and that they're me because they're me, not a conforming to what society expects, and that it's okay to embrace them for my own sake. I think Disney right now is going through the same process: They think presenting traditional femininity indicates a lack of agency for the characters and, while in a lot of historical settings that was the case, it doesn't have to be now in either the real world or fiction.
What makes this modern trend even more frustrating is that Disney has shown in the past they know exactly how to create genuinely strong female characters whose personalities feature both traditionally feminine and masculine traits--ya know, like how actual people are. Esmeralda and the original Mulan are great examples of this, and they were my favorites growing up. The original Mulan showed that, just because you're a girl, you don't have to fit yourself into society's box of what being a girl means, and she did so while not being completely perfect at it all the time like the remake did. Esmeralda showed that you can fight for justice and stand up for the outcasts, herself included, and that doesn't mean you have to give up your femininity or reject the kind soldier who shows romantic interest in you. Disney's take on Esmeralda makes her one of their strongest leading ladies, in my opinion. This is a woman who can not only defend herself and her friends in everyday situations, but when she's made to choose between compromising herself by becoming Frollo's sex slave or being burned at the stake, she chooses the stake. If that's not a strong woman worth admiration, I don't know what is.
Live action Wendy is based on your average 16 year old , selfish attitude included.
But that creates a plot-hole , how can she fly without truly happy thoughts?
All of her memories would be tainted by her mental state.
(P.S.) People who couldn't , or shouldn't , have kids feel worthless when they don't.
@@mmecharlotte , she could have come in later after she had some time to reflect.
Serving as a decoy for Hook to shoot at while the real Pan sneaks in.
I think we just wrote better than Disney.
You're all hired! 😂
Time to take notes Disney you have seen and heard of the recent successes of both the Barbie live action movie and One Piece live action series. Both properties had input from the author/ fans of their work. They told a simple story which established their characters and made sure it was fun to watch for most audience members who already loved the original product without alienating them.
If only Disney would have learned before we got this far, but here we are. I don't know where they are going to go once they are out of movies to make live action versions of.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions I've got some great movie ideas for Disney to make. Once I get a job at Disney as a 2-D artist, I'll create wonderful, beautiful animated films that are enjoyable, wholesome and tearjerking. I'll help Disney make great films again, I guarantee it.
@@annien.1727 For your sake and for the sake of people who love animated movies, I really hope so. It would be great to see a resurgence of great Disney movies.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions It WILL happen. I guarantee it.
If a Disney Princess is more though and has more of a masculine apearance and personality, then that´s toally okay bc women like this exist too. But this only works if she is a new princess and her own character (and still fleshed out). But if an already existing Disney Princess like Cinderella, Aurora, or Belle, all of a sudden becomes super though in a remake, then people won´t like it. And I think that ruins the spotlight and path for future tough Disney Princesses bc then people who will watch the movie will be like "ough not another "tough" disney princess"
Disney is in some sort of self-destructive death-spiral. It's remaking all its classics just to make horrible versions of them that few people like. It's bizarre to watch. It's like an artist destroying their paintings, except thankfully we can still watch the originals (if we have our own copies, I don't trust streaming services to keep them intact).
It is so sad to watch Disney go down this path, they were such a force to be reckoned with for a long time. The originals of their films are amazing, I wish we could expect the same from their new stuff.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions This isn't the Disney I grew up with or loved :(
@@yourlittlesistersproductions Listen, I'm not going to stand by and watch Disney collapse like that. I'll get a job at Disney as a 2-D artist and help them get back on their feet. This is NO joke. This is a promise. And I'm planning to keep that promise to the very end.✊🏻 Wait and see. New, amazing blockbuster films will be made by Disney again.
This is exactly the issue I had with Barbie. She didn’t need a man and was independent. Why is it so bad to fall in love? Am I missing something?
It's so sad to see so many media companies, Disney especially, go down this weird path of not wanting to show love stories on screen, or if they do, it's not like how it used to be portrayed. There is nothing wrong with falling in love.
Me too. I saw the propaganda that I walked out halfway through the movie as it was so bad.
Barbie was more about Ken having an identity outside of Barbie and healthy unreciptrocation for men, Barbie is unobtainable but there's nothing wrong with that that's just who she is, we need more love stories but not every story needs one
@@rawyldAnd yet they still have your money lmfao
@@deee71194 I know its the sad truth.
As a feminine black woman, I'm also getting fed up with these 'unlikable strong women who don't need no man' traits. Like, is this what little girls should look up to? Women that are mean, selfish and bigoted?
This is why I'm creating different projects where female characters can be both strong and feminine.
Same here! I'm also creating different projects where female characters are not only strong in mind and spirit, but also feminine, kind and unselfish.
It's not necessarily the past protagonist in "classic" Disney movies that modern day people see as weak. It's that the majority of these "classic" characters or adaptions, we're made by men. I'm not just speaking about Disney. Unfortunately that was mostly the only type of female character we we're basically forced to see, especially in regards to princess characters. I like the idea of my little girls seeing a princess or any female character being strong & being an equal to any character on screen. Not just reliant on her looks, appearance, or marital status. It's ok for a girl to look pretty & wait for a prince if she chooses to do so, but there is so much more to life than just that. Femininity shouldn't be put in a box ♀️🙌🏼 💖💪🏻
It is weird to say but i think it is true to say, Disney does not promote family, simultaneously belittling the roles and trying to market to their 'core audience'. The family. They both want to hate on family but also get their money. Then they blame some kind of -ism for their movies and other products not going well.
The funny thing is, the Wendy from the live action version sounds a lot like Jane, Wendy's daughter from the sequel. There WAS a story of a girl who was angry with the world and disillusioned by the ideas of classical femininity and didn't care about listening to stories, being brought to Neverland and acting out her anger on the characters there. They had no reason to change Wendy's character. After all, Wendy in the original story is the center of the narrative, being caught between two extremes: Pan, who symbolized staying a child forever but proving how immature and dangerous that could be, and Hook, who symbolized growing up but showing how that could turn someone bitter. Her point was that she was in between those two extremes. Showing her as moody and explosive and disillusioned shows that she's already abandoned her childlike wonder, so... what is the connection to the original story?
Yes! They could have done a movie with Jane, or with another child who needed to remember the magic of childhood.
I hate how Disney is making everyone hate feminism when these movies have hardly anything to do with feminism. Feminism means "women's rights", not "women are perfect". These remakes are stupid!🙄
I was annoyed by the costume they gave her. I get they tried to say look how masculine Wendy is by not wearing a night gown, but it’s stupid, because that’s what she historically would have been wearing.
Being a mother is one of the most heroic things a woman can do
Helping to raise the next generation and giving of yourself to ensure they are healthy, kind, and have a good work ethic is so important.
Exactly and the strongest most powerful thing a human can ever do.
So, I realized after I finished the video that there is, indeed, one other female protagonist who expresses a desire to be a mother and be married in her main movie....Maid Marian in Robin Hood! I dont think it changes any of the points I make in the video, but it bugged me that I forgot about her 😂
If Disney makes a live-action Robin Hood, it'll certainly be butchered :(
@@scientistservant Sadly, that is a very likely reality 😕 😔
@@scientistservant Don't give them ideas! Their spies are everywhere!
It's been quite a while since I watched that; I'll have to check it out. (Support physical media!) I think you're right, though: the usual emphasis is on marriage, and while that implied motherhood back in the day, motherhood is a major point in Barrie's original works.
@@stephenrice2063 Yes, he talks a lot about mothers and their role in a child's life, I was so sad when that part of Wendy's character was taken away in the live action.
This Movie is Disgusting and Disney’s Obsession with Feminism is Ruining the Company, these aren’t relatable and Kind Characters, these Live Action Abominations are Stereotypes and Token Manipulation of Characters that’s a awful message to Kids.
@featherguardian6023 I don't think there has been a live action that I have enjoyed nearly as much as the originals.
I have a black Jamaican woman for a mailroom supervisor and special thanks to her, we’ve been working together for 14 years. She sure as heck didn’t have to be any of those type of women just to be strong and independent. She knows how to be a supervisor and mother at the same time to her co-workers and look at how successful I’ve become.
Special thanks to her, she can take some time off from work just to take care of other way more serious important things in her life besides her job without having to worry about getting extra work to do when she comes back. I always make sure that my boss comes back extra work free by making sure I do my job right.
For those in which I wish I could take off but can’t, I give it to her to do the next day simply because she has more experience and has been working there a lot longer than me, in which that is pretty understandable of course. Other than that, most of the time I can do the job on my own and that’s why my supervisor loves me a lot❤
As a kid when 2003 peter pan was released. As a little child I figured out at 6 years old that wendy in that adaptation she was a Strong character within keeping her femininity.
Femininity and strength are not mutually exclusive! You can be both.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions Very true. And it's sad that Hollywood can't see that anymore.
I agree. I think it's really sad that writers cannot recognize that the original Disney heroines WERE strong female leads.
Snow White showed an unbreakability, under abuse, and remained positive against everything.
Cinderella, similarly, never allowed her step-family to break her, but stayed true to her positive personality, and was kind to everyone.
Mulan had no special powers. She was simply THAT DETERMINED. And smart! And brave.
I can go on, but frankly, I'm tired. The point is, FEMININE CHARACTERISTICS ARE STRONG, IN THEIR OWN WAY.
You think it's EASY to be nurturing? You think it's EASY to tell your little brothers, "It's better to die than to become a villain"? You think it's EASY to be obedient, when you're being ordered to do what you don't want to do (grow up and leave the nursery)? Of course not! But in her CHOICE to be meek and obedient, Wendy showed her strength of character, choosing the more difficult path, because she knew it was right.
Being kind to the people who hurt you is HARD.
Being optimistic when you literally just escaped an assassination attempt is HARD.
Sticking it out, to become a soldier, is HARD. She took it on, in order to save her father's life. When she was booted out, because she wasn't good enough, she could have gone home, taken up her feminine life, and her father would still be at home, alive, and unshamed for his lack of service. But she decided that she would stick to it, because she had the brains to solve that first puzzle. From there, it was just a matter of continued practice and will-power. I mean, they were ALL bad, at the start. She wasn't the only one who couldn't run twenty miles, while carrying buckets of water. She was just the worst of a bad bunch, who ALL improved. And she inspired the others to keep going, because she was.
Determination is a human trait, neither masculine nor feminine. But the remake ROBBED HER of that wonderful trait, and gave her innate super-powers, instead.
HOW ARE LITTLE GIRLS SUPPOSED TO EMULATE SOMEONE WHO IS GREAT SIMPLY BECAUSE THEY HAVE SUPERPOWERS?! Little girls CANNOT gain superpowers! But they CAN learn self-control, and the ability to delay gratification. They can learn to be determined. They can learn to prioritize. They can learn to make the hard choices and stick with them. They can learn to be kind, even to those who hurt them. They can learn to stay positive. They can learn to serve others. They can learn to embrace their best qualities. THEY CANNOT LEARN TO HAVE SUPER POWERS.
Captain Marvel, the live-action Mulan, She-Hulk, are all BAD role-models. None of them are truly good personalities, worthy of emulation, and they don't offer anything that children CAN emulate. And Loki was an anti-hero, anyway.
I have always been a Disneyphile, but today's Disney is doing a disservice to so many! Except in the Pixar films. Granted, I have not seen ALL the Pixar films, but look at Encanto! Now THERE is a strong female lead, who embraces her femininity, and that is EXACTLY what is needed to save the say - FEMALE POWER in EMOTIONAL LABOR. The fact that she does NOT have a super power is what saves the day! I LOVE Encanto.
I'm not that feminine, I'm gay and I look gay but I still do things like be into fashion, wear makeup and try to be nice to people, that's more personality than a lot of modern female characters in cinema, idk if you've watched Peter Pan 2 but even Wendy's daughter who's stubborn and bitter because she lives in WW2 is a more realistic character than Wendy in this remake, women don't have to all be mothers or be feminine or be nice all the time but seeing an actual human with fear, love, hope and kindness would be nice
There is nothing wrong with having a strong women as a lead, but the biggest problem with the Disney Strong Women character trait is that they have no flaws, no character arc, no sense of humor, and no personality. They are taking the strong woman persona the wrong way. Snow White is clearly going to fall into that trap, even Ziegler said so. They can also be sticks in the mud, especially in the films you described. There is a way to do the strong women right, like Mrs. Brisby from Secret of Nimh, she is has a strong personality, and she has to fight to save her son, but she is small and fragile, she is acrophobic, and she is entering a world that is bigger than her. That makes her arc a lot stronger. That is the key word, Arc. If they give these characters Arcs, we can relate to them, but they are not given arcs. They are born perfect and end perfect. This is not how to write a character. You can make them strong, but give them flaws they need to overcome.
Y'know, probably my favorite female character is Lessa, who manages to be strong, capable *and* a lover. She even insists on staying with one man in a setting where promiscuity is accepted. In short, it's not an either-or proposition.
Rachel Zegler → A _poster child_ for the cliche:
*_"Do not SH*T where you EAT."_*
Runner-up cliche:
*_"Do not bite the hand that feeds you."_*
Not a single live action Disney Princess has been accurately casted and reflected. It’s so sad because fans could make a better live action version of these movies if there was enough budget.
This why Originals were always my favorite 😅 4:21
And Wendy was my favorite
Agreed I always thought money talks but they've lost millions of dollars and still won't learn.
900 million dollars lost this year and counting, apparently. Snow White could have made them a lot of money, if they hadn't changed so much about it.
5:10 Wendy sword fighting might be a fun and exciting idea, but she really sucks at it. They should have spent a lot more time training her before shooting that scene.
I adore strong women characters, but part of that is that they should be women. I just saw a cartoon called "Night Hood", based on the Arsene Lupin books. The female lead was a woman reporter who was a strong character. I know she was strong because she wore a man's suit, including a blocky fedora.
Do the writers want an archetype for a strong woman? Look at Katherine Hepburn. Able to go toe to toe with anyone, but not afraid to fall in love.
Having someone they cared about just made them stronger.
@JustClaude13 Katherine Hepburn is one of my favorite women to watch on screen! And yes, it would have been nice to see Wendy at least get trained in sword fighting before the end scene, I agree.
I never saw the new version since you're saying about it I'm so glad I never going to see 😮 6:02
GOOD VIDEO, YOU ARE RIGHT about everything, I don't understand why these modern heroines have to copy the male behavior that they hate so much, only that when they do it it is a symbol of ''empowerment'' perhaps they don't realize the contradictory message
In addition to being conceited, the ''modern heroines'' are eternal victims, even if you have all the powers given away and the other characters spend their time praising them, they still always have a bitter face because she is a victim of the patriarch.
It's a trend that I really hope we move on from sooner rather than later. It's starting to get tiring and predictable.
Live action Wendy is basically Jane from Peter Pan 2
Even the 1922 silent version was way better than this remake, it was even more progresive.
Peter Pan was played by a girl: Betty Bronson🧐
In the stage plays of Peter Pan, Peter is usually played by a woman.
New subscriber!
I enjoyed this vid and decided to check out your others and subscribe.
One request: I would love for your voice to be louder in the final mix. It's a little quiet compared to standard yt vids.
Thank you! I'm glad you enjoyed our videos :)
And thank you for the feedback about the audio, I'll do my best to have the sound be louder in our upcoming videos!
I'm gonna defend Captain Marvel because this is her character, it's her role to be the cool badass lesbian, so it's good for her to be stoic and hardcore; but everyone else? No, stop. And like this movie has Lost _girls_ ? As in there's more than one girl character? Then why the fuck are you changing Wendy when you have other girls carrying the load of not being traditionally feminine? This is peak white upper class feminism and I'm done with it
Repeat after me disney: there's nothing wrong in being feminine!!!For a company who grew with these ideas,letting go now is a LOT of stupidity!
It's sort of sad that they messed up the new peter pan so bad, like the original was flawed and could've been improved by being less racist towards native people and focusing more on the narrative.
I had heard somewhere, when it was first announced, that they wanted to be closer to the book, which could have been fun. They failed at that even more than adapting the animated movie.
It is good because she is grumpy
The captain marvel clip was a deleted scene who you fooling
I like this video
I don't know what but this makes me happy now 😂😊 2:46
Instead doing this pile of garbage, cant they make another Tinkerbell movie? I want to see the squad again. I need more Rosetta and the other faries
I wish they would think of doing more projects like that, but alas, this is what they've been giving us instead.
I completely agree with you! ^^
Thank you!
Is it just me or does the new Wendy sound like Jane from Return to Neverland
I think a lot of the ‘traditionally feminine’ traits of the earlier Disney princesses stemmed more from restrictive gender roles than in celebrating something profound about female nature. What are Snow White’s, Cinderella’s and Aurora’s ‘unique’ personality traits? Uhhhh…they smile a lot and talk to animals and are always nice and patiently endure a lot of oppression and suffering. And they’re pretty and cheerful and sing rather than be sad or angry. These are, absolutely, traits that are socially valued in women now and back in the day. They’re also qualities and social norms that actively harm girls and women.
If other people abuse us, dismiss us or take us for granted, we absolutely SHOULD be moody, angry and resistant (with certain exceptions). There is no virtue or strength in suffering in silence - or with cheerful song - until a man comes along who is charmed by our quiet, self-denying inaction. I’m not arguing that all princesses should swing swords, and I actually adore that New Girl quote/scene. But there’s a world of difference between the femininity of Jessica Day (btw I’m in this category too, I’m girly as shit) - and the hollow femininity of the 3 original Disney princesses.
And as for Wendy and the encourage motherhood thing. It’s a really complex and thorny issue. For one thing, girls of her age are being forced, in the U.S. and abroad, to give birth. Generally speaking, older sisters often end up ‘parentified’ even if they’re not bio parents (yet) - forced to stand in for the actual mom too often (needless to say, children being forced to be parents is insanely traumatizing). Of course any woman who wants to be a mom is welcome to it, but encouraging girls to want that is not a good or honest thing (or necessary! they're pretty observant just left to themselves). The ~aspirational~ aspects of motherhood are almost never in alignment with actual motherhood, and it causes child abuse/neglect, marriage problems and widespread exhaustion and misery in women. Also…we (generally speaking) don’t encourage boys to want to be dads, so we’re pushing a massive responsibility on little girls, since the time they're virtually babies themselves, that we don’t push on boys. We teach girls that THIS drudgery is FUN (diapers! bottles! actual peeing dolls!) and then as women we torture ourselves mentally bc (even though we love our kid) it’s not fun and games, and it’s way more work and just… sheer boredom than the ‘Being a Mommy is Fun’ toys told us. TLDR - teach girls to care for others/self, to be self-sufficient (cook, first aid), to be empathetic….but don’t teach them to want motherhood (they can figure that out on their own. Not saying to DIScourage - just be neutral. It’s an adult life choice no better or worse than others)****
I agree that the ret-conning of the animated heroines in the live-action films has become obnoxious. None of the ladies needed to be more girl-bossy. There were plenty of ways to demonstrate the complexity and agency of the characters (show, don’t tell etc). But the mess Disney made of it doesn’t indicate that the solution is ‘traditional femininity’ in the vein of the old school princesses.
I think many of the 90s ‘princesses’ were a good attempt at course-correction. Belle, Jasmine, Pocahontas, Mulan, Esmeralda and Megara had combinations of traditionally feminine and masculine traits that made them more realistic, relatable, interesting - and far better role models. Kind of lost you at the end of the video, but I think that's something you'd agree with : ) It would be fun to examine how male domination of the entertainment industry has kept 'strong female characters' as two-dimensional - and ubiquitous - as possible.
**I get that certain religious groups believe that motherhood is one of/the most important part of femininity. I grew up like that. It's hard to separate that out, mentally speaking, from definitions of traditional femininity. But I think it's possible to wear dresses and pick flowers and bake bread without also encouraging motherhood since before girls even know what a mother is
@@jfk2428 Wait so.... where/how is another gender being put down? Maybe I missed part of the conversation
@@jfk2428 It's true that non-abusive men don't want to be abusive. I work with abuse survivors, so I see the truth of that constantly. Gotta be mindful of phrasing though - males (and females, nb people etc) who abuse *absolutely* want to abuse. They may swear up and down they don't want to abuse. But they do want obedient, submissive partners, and they do want to never have their authority and intentions questioned and they do feel there are appropriate social roles for different genders and they do think of themselves as more rational, worthy leaders and they do believe their partners and kids exist to serve them....etc. No one wants to *think of themselves* as an abuser, but that doesn't mean they aren't choosing to abuse every day in every little way. And you know it's a choice because they sure as heck don't act that way towards their boss or mom. They want to abuse, it's just the stigma and moral/social/legal responsibility they want to avoid
Nice to see that you understand that there's different religious groups (aka, branches) and not all of us agree on the motherhood thing.
@@kittycatmeowmeow963 Absolutely! Religion was my focus in college, and I particularly enjoyed learning about the diversity of perspectives on various topics (from the nature of Jesus to what's acceptable to eat to gender and sexuality). One thing that always puzzles me is the insistence, within some modern religious communities/denominations etc, that there's only one right way to be a good woman. The history/legacy of Christianity (and other Abrahamic religions to an extent) clearly demonstrates this isn't true. Everyone has different gifts bestowed on them, and different paths to take.
1:48 ironic isn’t it
The most ironic
I'm not a fan of the Peter Pen story in general, but I think I can suggest one of the things that was wrong in the original animation. It was made in 1953, and if you look at the historical context, female role models at a time, and basically all of the animation movies that were made from 1937 to roughly 1990es or sometimes even early 2000s, you will see only one role model for little girls -- a lover and a mother.
Any Disney princess, any female character in an action movie, or basically anywhere else -- either want to find love or having a mother hen type of relationship with everyone else.
I'm not saying it's wrong, or should not be in the media at all, I'm just saying that girls and people in general deserve to have more.
If you look at the Peter Pan animation from today's point of view, it would be one of the many stories with girls that you have seen, and you can compare it to Barbie(the movie), The Owl House and so on. And coming from a bigger variety of archetypes for women, where they can be fighters, detectives, criminals, and also allowed to be sad and angry and have their own emotions, not only reflections of male characters nearby. Coming from today you can judge all the variety that was made for you, but looking from the 1950's girl point of view, she could only grow up to be a mother, which is not bad as it is, but really wrong if you have Only One option.
P.S. I also think that making a little girl act like a mother, and not allowing her to have her emotions, and making her grow up for her little brothers to allow them to be children it fucked up. She is a child herself, why the fuck everyone else can have they childhood and she should be a mother?! Just because she is a girl?
I am not praising disney remake in any way, they are homophobic exploitative corporation of evil, who have no idea what they are doing. I'm just saying that their originals also shouldn't be praised and considered as perfect, because they aren't
I understand that there were movies that had female characters with a love story leading to marriage and motherhood, but it is also inaccurate to say that all of them were that way.
Alice in Wonderland, the animated movie, has no motherhood story arc or love story for Alice, and that came out in 1951 from Disney.
I grew up watching a LOT of classic movies from the 1930s to modern day, and there is a lot of variety in female characters from that time. Bette Davis, or anything with Mae West, for example. She was portraying women who wanted to have a lot of men in their lives and would make a lot of innuendos toward and about men. Katherine Hepburn played many strong female characters over the course of her career. The movie His Girl Friday from 1940 has the main female protagonist who is a journalist who postpones her wedding and honeymoon to stay behind and get the exclusive scoop from a man on the run from police. Audrey Hepburn also played many strong female characters, and if you watch Funny Face, there is a female character who is in charge of the magazine. She has no husband, no children, and no love interests. Her story is about her career.
There are more, but I will stop here. I agree that we need variety in our female characters, we are not all the same. But to take an already established character who DID want to be a mother, which a lot of people can relate to wanting to be a parent, and doing the exact opposite with her character, is where I have the problem. Also, Wendy in the 1953 version CHOSE to have her brothers come with her to Neverland. She could have left them behind, but she Wanted them to come because she genuinely loves to spend time with them. She is the first who needs to grow up not because she is a girl, but because she is the oldest. Her brothers will grow up when they reach around her age.
All in all, I agree with you that we deserve variety in our characters, just as we have in real life. I also know that there is variety in these older movies, but unless you have sat down and watched them, it can be easy to think that there wasn't.
@jfk2428 I love seeing good sibling relationships in movies and TV! I know not everyone is fortunate enough to have that, but it is still nice to see as something we can strive to.
@@yourlittlesistersproductions Wow thank you for reply)
I grew up in the 2000s, and didn't have the pleasure to watch those movies, and as I am deeply interested in animation, especially mainstream animation, that tends to reflect main social tendencies, as producers want to make profit, and people relate to naratives that they can experience (not the magic, but adulting/love/family/etc)
Alice in wonderland is an awesome story, and I love it with all of my heart
But, most of the stuff that came out those years will be something like Snowhite, Sinderella, Thumbelina, Alladin, Little Mermaid and so on. We have a bit of an exception in Mulan, Belle has other interests than love, but it still had that "marriage is the main goal" narrative. You can see other stuff in Hayao Miyazaki works, but majority of american animation will be quiet conservative in gender role aspect
And about Wendy, will it change anything if we switch her with some of her brothers? Make a male character adult and take care of children?
I just think that older sister = mother is a really toxic thing in mainstream media, I grew up in a quite abusive family, and have seen a lot of similar tendencies around, where parents will leave their younger children to the eldest female one. And it ends up with a lot of mental health and just general quality of life problems of said girl. Because if both parents are alive and they wanted to have those children, it's better if they take care of them
Thank you for your time, I'll check up the stories that you recommended 🖤
@karaevilsky3012 I'm so sorry you had those experiences! I hope you are doing much better now.
I agree that forcing children into parental roles is not good. I would say the difference from the original to the new one is Wendy's desire. In the 1953 version, she wants to be a mother, and she enjoys taking care of her brothers. In the new one, it actually comes off more as her being forced because they changed her character to not wanting to help take care of them, so far that she is outright mean to them. But I do see your point, and I think we agree on the core of what you are saying. I just also see a lot of really good things in Disney's classics and want to help others see that part of them, too.
Thank you for watching our video and commenting! We love hearing other people's perspectives and opinions, thank you for being kind in your comments 😊
The Darling parents themselves are constrained by the customs of the early Edwardian period. The father is a stern figure who administers discipline. It would be overly familiar of him to actually devote a significant amount of time to them, since childcare was the mother's domain.
16:20 there’s like little to no things I disagree with you about.
@christiantwist3360 Thanks for watching, and I'm glad you liked it!
It’s weakness
Thanks for the engagement.
Disagree with this completely.
And that's OK! Thanks for watching and commenting :)