KDE Dev Reacts To Linus' New Linux Video! And tries some of the challenges!
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Linus searched for "snipping tool" because that's what the defualt screenshot utility is called in Windows
I was going to say that, but actually that is no more the default app on Windows, it still exist, but specifically "Snipping tool" is the old app, the new one I don't remember the official name. Either way for me Flameshot is the best screenshot app for Linux and Windows too.
Yeah, that was silly of Linus to do that, searching for screenshot was be the right search term.
@@agushex On Windows 11 it went back to being named snipping tool as far as I know
@@noellewastaken Oh I didnt't try it yet xD
@@agushex- the new one is name just as bad- Snip & Sketch
Snipping tool is what's it's called on Windows
Honestly when I first moved to linux I also searched for snipping tool by intuition :D
So definitively a good job of adding this as a keyword
I had really hard time finding it in windows because it was called snipping tool. 😀
I was really surprised in a positive way that the kde devs thought of including "snipping" as a keyword to redirect to Spectacle. Very wise move of which we need more in linux. However if you try "snipping tool" you get nothing again :)
@@iodreamify It'll be fixed in the next release
@@nebulous962 yeah true. It's windows that was pretty unintuitive for me
I really like KDE and it's great to see this KDE developer reviewing this. Mad respect to people who put in long hours to these DEs and take it on the chin when critics say bad things. This helps Linux as a desktop go from strength to strength.
Say what you want about these challenge videos. It is generating a super important movement in the Linux community! Just seeing a KDE dev acknowledging some of the flaws based on his video is a sign that it's doing a great impact
Exactly what I'm thinking
For sure.
especially the way things are thought out are good.
It works like X on windows.
Should we include it on linux? if so, how?
Copying functionality from Windows doesn't have to be bad even if it was copied directly.
If the UX is good and the UI looks good... then there is no issue.
Not reinventing the wheel is important in all places
Yeah, honestly I think all Linus points are valid. while some might be reminiscences of a windows mindset there's plenty of UI/UX flaws in linux desktop (all of them).
6:35 "If I click on digital sign, nothing happens"
If this happens to you, you can be sure it may happen to thousand others. It should be really hard to overlook this kind of stuff. When you want to perform a certain action and apparently nothing happens (similar to the dolphin file copying), many users are confused. If you want to perform an action, you want to know its progress and whether it needs further input from you.
Yep, the popup asking to draw a rectangle was really very, very hard to spot
But Dolphin file copying is more straightforward than in Windows tho?
When you drag a file, it will always ask you whether to move, copy, or make a link.
In Windows, if you drag something to a flash drive, it will copy the file.
If you drag something within the same drive, it will move the file.
This could be really confusing to people and cause them to do something they didn't want on accident.
@@l4kr And if you drag something like "My Documents" it will create a shortcut.
True, I think that Okular sould use notifications or popups like dolphin, very easy to spot them.
-Also about the copying I think that we can use something like a little progress bar on the icon itself plus the current notification. I think other OS do it like that and also some others DE.- (I keep seeing the video and Niccoló commented then that they are working on it)
@@l4kr Yes, the process of initiating the process is simple, but what I mean that the user also wants to know when it's done. Linus didn't see the progress bar because it was on a large screen in the lower right corner. Because he saw the file in the target folder, he assumed that the copying/moving/zipping was finished and he could use the file. Ideally, these files should either have a certain color (e.g. gray) or not be visible at all until they are ready to be interacted with. Also, since there is no directly visible popup at the window itself, it is easy to overlook the progress bar.
I gotta say, Linux developers had their priorities straight when they made printer development work. Essentially, they didn't want to hear back from their users, so they set it up to "just work" all the time.
Fun fact: CUPS is actually developed by Apple.
In the end its a luck thing on any OS if a fitting driver is available. Not that having each printer requiring a separate driver in the first place makes much sense. Its not 1995 anymore. (fault of the printer industry)
@@vast634 I do love my lazer printers though
@@CyFr what printer do you have?
@@MrWorshipMe I have a brother B&W multifunction. I like the options with connections networking wired or wireless, and USB
I think if the temporary zip file had "temp" in its name, there would've been less room for confusion. Just my opinion.
This. Either naming it some_name.hash.temp or making it a hidden file would make it more clear as it queue's a user to glance around the screen for feedback and they are more likely to see the tiny progress bar in the corner. And those larger screens are becoming more common, especially for gamers and developers with multi monitor setups. I'm on a pretty large screen right now typing this, actually.
Another option, rather than having it on the file itself, could be to pop up a prompt over the top of the window that is the source or destination, centered on the middle of the window. This would also make it more visible.
Or "Temp" on the icon graphic.
Yes!!! Idk what was the idea behind a random string to denote a temp file
@@Firestar-rm8df I think progress indication on the file is better than both notification progress and a popup. The problem with a popup is it either blocks the window from further interactions until it's gone, or it gets lost in the clutter of all open windows. I want to be able to queue operations using one or at most two windows. I don't want to have to wait for one operation to complete for me to be able to request the next one. The notification way is better in that regard compared to a pop up, but is not noticeable enough. It could be made more flashy and big, but icon progress on the files themselves seem much more elegant. I imagine it the icon as a growing pie piece, or growing top to botton or bottom up. Or maybe just a blue bar with flow animation moving across the icon.
@@NullPointer I think the idea was to prevent name collisions if you tried compressing multiple archives simultaneously in the same directory. But since it creates an archive named after that dir, it'd probably confict anyway once done (?) haven't tried it... They might have been smart enough to add a counter index if an archive of that name already exists in the directory once the operation completed.
Dolphin giving the *same* icon to the "zip.uqjqfu" as a normal zip, just *completely* defeats the purpose of the "uqjqfu" part, that being to not to confuse it with an actual complete zip. It should look like what it is, a typeless temporary file.
@Watcher Then the reaction would be "Where is my zip file? Does it do anything?" -- especially on large archives.
@Evan Dark Agreed. Even a specialized "null" icon that's entirely blank would be useful as a way yo imply a new user can't play with a temporary file yet. Then adding the icon after completion would help "complete" the sequence.
It's only polish work, and impatient people would still probably screw around with it anyway, but I think it's the kind of polish that would help improve the system.
@@MyselfAgain That's actually what most file managers are doing. Dolphin is the one that goes out of his way to give this "zip." file a proper archive icon, instead of just using the unknown file one. Only to confuse the poor user.
@@EvanOfTheDarkness Agreed. I've never used Dolphin, but I've used countless others on my distro-hopping days... All of them use temporary type icons until a file is done downloading, compressing, etc. before killing the suffix to normal and the icon resolving to the correct one.
Also, why not use .TEMP or something like that instead of .UQJFU-- that makes it much clearer that it is a temporary file.
I could see how dragging a an item from a folder to the desktop wouldn't be the first choice for a link. Most people would assume that it's going to either copy or move that file to the desktop.
Dolphin will always ask you what you want to do when you drag a file, its copy, move, or create a link.
So after using Dolphin once you'll know immediately.
I would be shocked if a click and drag action results in a context menu, like if I thought it was just going to do a copy action then I might get confused why the action isn't happening, or "what is this box"
@@gardian06_85 The thing is Windows is inconsistent.
When you drag a file to an external drive or USB, it will actually copy the file.
When you drag it in the same drive, it will move the file
It's inconsistent and users can get confused.
In Dolphin, it's clear. You can also hold shift to move ctrl to copy while dragging.
in windows you also have an option when you right click to create a desktop shortcut.
would never expect a menu to pop up after dragging a file,you right click when you want to see a context menu.
It's just one of those things that Windows makes you do wrong all the time.
I understood and rethought a lot after switching to Linux.
I'm surprised by your surprise that Linus didn't just drag the file to create a link. I don't use KDE and I would expect dragging to move the file, not offer me a menu.
Of course, the first time I want to move a file, I will be informed of this fact, but going in completely blind, I can absolutely understand why Linus didn't do that. I would not have either.
Because on windows you drag it with the right mouse button and you'll get a context menu when you release, I think that's what happened here.
Hopefully you didn't skip Luke's part when you watched it, because it has some pretty important points regarding Linux as well.
He has a ryzen thread ripper. Zipping files on that thing should be insanely fast. However, in Linux the zipping was SUPER slow for him. I can vouch because I just tested zipping the same files on KDE arch and windows 11, and windows 11 took the cake on this one. Not sure what would cause it though
It's just as fast if not faster for me (KDE Arch aswell, BTRFS file system)
so many factors tho, weird
@@l4kr yeah see I have no clue. I have a ryzen 7 5800x which theoretically should be insanely fast for everything but then I try zipping a video of the same size and it hung similarly to Linus
I also just check and the compression is single-threaded.
Its not hanging issue. Usually in Windows or like Linux mint, it will give an estimated time remaining which also assures that the process is still happening.
@@tuantran3629 I'm wondering, is Dolphin not using some standard compression library for this? It seems to me like any way a program decides to zip a file which results in the implementation being restricted to a single thread is a case where you're reinventing the wheel.
"You're holding it wrong" - This cracked me up XD
Haha, yes, it was a nice touch and part of what made the video good. Trying out and analyzing what caused the issue, not just blaming Linus. The "You're holding it wrong." said ironically made me chuckle, because that's what many people would do instead of at least taking the issues seriously.
IMO, the refresh issue just illustrates the failure of the hamburger menu. This is a perfect example of form over function creating more layers and clicks to do the simple tasks just because "it looks better/cleaner".
Not necessarily the failure, rather the consequence. If the menu is very rarely used, an extra click is not that big of a price for the saved space.
@@mishaerementchouk That's another way to look at it I guess. I think it's a failure because it's a poor way to solve that problem. Maybe the menu bar should simply be hidden, like with ctrl-m, but shown when hovering somewhere, like the title bar, or at least present the full menu on the hamburger menu to avoid the situations where something being one layer deep [refresh is under view], are then 3-4 layers deep on hamburger.
Vivaldi actually does this. You hit the V hamburger style menu icon and you get the usual file, edit,view,tools,help.
@@glock21guy I didn't install KDE for a while and don't know if the menu is now hidden by default. If it is, it's a questionable default. On my machines, I do have the hamburger menu on the title bar for Qt applications because I use menus rarely. Frankly, I think making the menu reappearing through a shortcut is worse than revealing it consistently by clicking a button. I used to tweak the konsole settings on fresh installations, for which I needed to menu. Time passed and I don't remember the hot key for showing it. The hamburger menu is there all the time in case I need it. And I find the titlebar rather useful anyway.
When Linus was compressing , there was no dialog box in the center of the screen alerting him that the compression process was still ongoing. KDE should have shown a dialog box with progress perhaps right in the center of the screen.
I do think a notification box is fine.
The reason he misses it is that he comes to Linux from Windows and does things with the box in the center.
Downloads in browsers used to be in the center of the screen with a dialog box as well but slowly moved to the top right, left or bottom.
This, however, was done with loads of arrows to let people know that the downloads moved position.
And even though it was not the best, windows 8 had like loads of tutorial windows showing you how the new windows worked when first booting.
So maybe something similar could be done in Linux.
Sort of a tutorial trigger that when a notification pops up it prompts the user to read a small and simple explanaition that all notifications and system alerts and dialog windows will be down in the corner.
that at least makes people look there if they can't find the dialog opening up.
just some ideas :)
Maybe a brief moment then animated to the cornor. I don't like the (7-zip, WinRar on) Windows way, it's annoying to check the progress and get in the way.
If I were designing a commercial OS user interface, I would set it up so that ANY TIME that ***ANYTHING AT ALL*** started its progress that would be indicated on the progress stack in the corner, it would have a little spark or square fly from the centre of the app window (or the centre of the screen as fallback) down into the corner where the progress stack lives. That way the user would KNOW FOR SURE, immediately, that a process had initiated and would not be left in the twilight zone like this.
I would not have Windows's horrible floating task progress dialog windows that get buried behind your browser, your zip application, your hardware monitoring apps, your main install dialog, and your mother's cat... (or else force themselves to the front and get in the way!) and I certainly would not have tasks start up silently like what happened to Linus in the KDE.
Oh also, I would include a standard icon for a temporary working file or any sort of in-progress file. Even Windows does not do this and it creates unnecessary confusion.
EDIT: Actually turning the entire file icon (in icon matrix view) or item row (in row-column details view) into a progress bar might not be the worst idea...
@@amystery5238 yeah, I agree, I can think of at least two approaches to the UX.
1: Upon first install you get a question what DE you're most familiar with, e.g. Windows, Linux, MacOS etc.
Then, whenever you try to do something for the first time, where the action or prompt or notification or whatever deviates from what you'd expect, you get a prompt (with a "don't show this again" checkbox) telling you how it should be done or whatever.
2: Same as 1 except you choose whether you want lots of help, some or none (beginner, intermediate, expert or something similar) and you get tips and pointers accordingly.
E.g. the zip/copy notification could be front and center in the beginner version, and maybe remember last position if you decide it's in the way.
That way it's a conscious decision where it ends up, making it more intuitive to look for.
Excuse my ramblings.
@@ThaitopYT What do you mean? On windows when you minimize the info tab on progress. It shows the progress on the icon itself on the taskbar.
14:00
simple fix:
Show a popup that says „extracting started, check the bottom right corner to see the status”. Add a checkbox that says „never show this again”. Done.
How about something like a chat box growing up from the file transfer bubble, showing the progress bar, that disappears or shrinks down when you click something on screen, this would very clearly say "The transfer is ongoing, the status is shown here in the bubble", and also need no specific interaction to remove, so it could be shown every time
I like this a lot. Should be a relatively easy fix, shown once to every user, never to be sen again.
"check the bottom right" might not work if you costumised your desktop.
But that is just a quick fix xD I mean every design decision of KDE feels like a quick fix 🤣
Nothing to fix here it is not a bug. And the pop-up is well enought come on... Windows Always do things in background not letting you know and people don't complain...
I think Linus had all the task files on usb-stick and was compressing them on the stick which would be really slow on any OS.
I think Linus is a n00b xD
Yup for someone who is supposedly a tech reviewer how he doesn't know USB memory sticks can be slow as fuck is beyond me, especially if you are reading and writing back to the same place.
But still the notification needs to be in the same window if was executed from. In nautilus it does it that way. No need for it to be a desktop notification, or perhaps be both,
@@edwardecl ofc he knows, why would you think otherwise? His problem is him not having any obvious notification of tasks being performed on it, so he naturally assumed whatever copying or zipping was done in an instant.
Possibly stupid idea... This actually might be solvable from the plasma end. Compress in a tmpfs directory if the room exists and copy after.
@@mamamia8891 You're right, but I notice people who didn't grow up with the early days of plain text email often don't have any concept of file size or why anything might be too big for email.
In fact they are used to the system automagically proposing an alternative. Some software would suggest reducing the size or quality of images in a document if you told it to send the file by email, while as in the video, Google will on-the-fly redirect you to send the file to drive and just send a link to the recipient. Their testing will have discovered it's easier to second-guess the user and guide them to the preferred alternative than try to teach them the reason why.
"Why do I have 15 applications open?"
I can totally relate to this.
HAJAJAAJAJAJAJAJAJJAJAJAAJJAAJH I LOVE IT
He also keeps them open and just moves them a little bit.
Probably 5 Minutes later: "Why do i have 20 applications open?" :D
I can't. My PC would die.
"I paid for all this RAM, so I'm gonna use all the RAM!
15 applications open? Those are rookie numbers...
You’re always so diplomatic and open-minded when hearing about criticisms! I’m actively trying to be more like you in this regard.
The refresh button he left in a bad note of "you should've done these setting changes". It undermined how earlier he seemed to take the criticism.
@@gJonii I didn’t think he was being particularly confrontational. Go tell a gnome dev they need to change something and then tell me if you still see a problem with his response.
Yeah I was expecting this dev to be full of himself but he was really open-minded. Maybe more of these types of videos should be done. I think linux development UI design is done by people who know linux typically and falls into these holes.
Linus is a terrible person to take criticism from when it comes to Linux. He is a win fanboy.
@@caseycu Someone else being worse isn't really a defence of behavior. Otherwise with Hitler I guess we're all free to do whatever, since any criticism can be countered with "But Hitler"
4:45 It shouldn't be buried by default though. Customizability is no excuse for a poor default experience. The default really should be the benchmark for any software, especially GUIs.
14:50 Display a notification in dolphin maybe? Or include a task queue or something in the application to see pending file operations...
24:39 I would not agree that the use of refresh is niche
ubuntu does the 2nd one
vouch for 3
vouch for 3
I thought 3 was true for a long time, but turns out a lot of people, even professional typists use the mouse to do simple things like copy, paste and yes, refresh, so refresh is apparently not a niche.
Poor zip performance can probably be really easily explained: A usb-drive with a windows file system (ntfs or fat32), which uses a fuse-driver in linux, combined with not great read/write performance on that usb-drive in the first place. Then trying to run 3 different compressions at the same time - one of which had the temp zip-file renamed in the middle of the compression.
And then compressing back to the usb-drive again
I think if he just let the original dolphin job complete it would have been less than a minute, but impatience and trying to do the same thing a dozen different ways at once + dolphin not clearly showing that compression is ongoing lead to the disaster we saw
The locking up "Clearly stalled" is fairly typical of accessing slow devices with a FUSE driver
Dolphin compression is also single-threaded. Although, I don't think that matter much with low I/O speed from a USB.
USB sticks are also really slow when writing. This kind of flash storage is not very fast, but due to write caches, it might appear fast, but finishing up the write process (syncing) could take a long time.
I think that dolphin itself not having the progress indicator is the main problem. Nautilus does this better, it has a progress bar circle in the file manager itself.
@@marcmil4064 Fuse makes this 100x worse, a drive that gets ~10MB/s on NTFS in windows can easily choke to 100KB/s in linux, not just slow but extremely so
@@Flimzes I think at least for NTFS this will or has already changed. I've read somewhere recently in the media that the kernel gets a NTFS driver.
For me, it would be great if there's a main window that displays progress of every ongoing file operations just like in windows. But a progress bubble similar to nautilus is good enough.
Full agree. I made Linus mistake also several times. With large screens, it's really easy to oversee the current progress.
@@marcmil4064 Or multiple screen. For such large screen a work around could be to have notification on top middle. Like gnome. It'll be better noticeable. You can configure it in settings.
The Notifications applet has all of that, though it depends on how it's configured and where it's placed, i have my KDE desktop(also Manjaro) setup like Gnome, so i don't miss anything.
That was the kase in KDE3. It was removed when plasma rolled in.
@@kiloneie I can only place the notifications in the screen corners?
Maybe add something like '.tmp' extention to indicate a temporary file being compressed is a good idea?
Downloads often get the ".part" extension. Also a good choice imho.
Yes, better than random string.
19:50 A screenshot capture utility that is included with Windows since Vista or 7 is called "Snipping Tool", so that's probably a habit
Note: Microsoft tried to deprecate that tool and replace it with "Snip and Sketch", but that didn't really took off, and the "Snipping Tool" just got updated with the functionality from S&S
pretty happy with that as well.
I use the snipping tool a lot as it is so quick and easy to use.
when I tried the snip and sketch, i was less happy about that.
@@Controvi same
@@Controvi For me, both tools are virtually the same, aside for the fact that you can bind S&S to the PrintScreen Button without some third party tools, which can be pretty handy
As a Windows user who has a Linux Mint laptop on the side, I really want Linux devs to succeed and grow. I'm hoping that SteamOS and Proton especially will push developers to consolidate their efforts and perhaps standardize some things. Some day I want to switch from Windows and never look back
You can’t force all desktop environments but one to be abandoned. Developers can choose to work on the projects they support.
@@Alex-if1nf What do you think will end up happening? Linus Torvalds said he hope SteamOS will push developers to focus on one distro more heavily, and he liked the idea. I don't want distros to be "abandoned" but working together with a strong focus would be the best thing for Linux as a whole
@@wolfpox Do you expect KDE devs to abandon KDE and work on GNONE?
@@amystery5238 maybe a new generation of developers will be biased toward what the market favors, which could be driven by something like Steam Deck
@@wolfpox the market can fuck itself if you ask me let the devs do what they want isn't that the point of linux if you want to be treated like livestock by corporate overlords & spoon fed use windows or mac os or android just let those of us who want freedom have it devs have the right to develop what they want & we users have the right to choose what we use i like it that way
Dolphin should allow operations that require root privileges by asking root password. This is what most users expect.
Why? Because Linux is system where users often need to tweak some system files, configs (for example, fix sound issue on notebook).
Also for consistency, Kate gives ability to save system file by asking root pwd.
Why apps of same system performs differently?
Also there is some developers who would prefer to use Dolphin instead of shell or midnight commander.
This drives me CRAZY. If some dev reads this, PLEASE consider changing this behavior. Put it in a menu option that isn't easy to accidentally hit if you need to, but please dear god add that functionality in there somewhere. Dolphin is really great besides this missing functionality. I hate having to get the AUR package from someone else with that added in, i'd rather it just work out of the box. Sigh.
YES
Dolphin urgently needs this feature, for advanced users they can use the terminal within Dolphin itself but for new users it should have a pop like "You are about to modify your system, introduce your password to continue with root privileges"
I understand why sudo GUI apps expose the X server to compromise to some degree... and thus why KDE has disabled the ability to easily run Dolphin as root. I also believe the ultimate idea is to have it work like Kate (utilizing PoilicyKit rules) where you are prompted to elevate when needed versus running the app as root. But the problem is that it can't do that now... and I often find times I need to do something as root in Dolphin and it frustrates me that I can't easily override the new behavior... especially since the new functionality isn't there as of yet.
I can do what I need to via CLI obviously (and often do), but I shouldn't be forced to as Linus believes. I'm behind a NAT and not exposing my Linux box... I'm not too worried about someone getting root to my system via X. Maybe I'm wrong and I shouldn't elevate Dolphin ever... but I do occasionally do it still. I close it immediately after I'm done. As of today on Kubuntu, it can still be done with a command like:
pkexec env DISPLAY=$DISPLAY XAUTHORITY=$XAUTHORITY KDE_SESSION_VERSION=5 KDE_FULL_SESSION=true dolphin
But I'd rather not have to do something like this...
It has been in the works for months now.
One of the better reaction videos to Linus's video. I've started to consider switching to Linux and it's helpful to see "how it's done". Maybe you should title it accordingly as you are also trying the tasks yourself, and it's not just a lazy reaction video.
You mentioned the Visual Design KDE chat, maybe they should know of this here at 11:39 where it should be a rule to always show in front the dialog that's being shown following a user action.
at 20:17 he's searching for the snipping tool because that's the way the screenshot tool is called on Windows.
Well, I learned something today, it exist actually an easier way to take screenshot on Windows than "PrtScr button > Open Photoshop > Past > Reframe > Save " ^^
Thanks :-)
@@thibautstilli5947 it gets even faster, Windows + Shift + S quickly launches the screenshot tool (without you needing to launch it initially) and asks what portion do you want to screenshot, it also saves to the clipboard so after this you just paste in Slack or Discord, without saving a file and tracking it down later.
Dialogs are shown in front. He actually clicked there multiple times and opened 2 windows. It works fine.
@@ClifffSVK you shouldn't be able to launch two such dialogs, just one. It should ignore the second request and keep it in front.
@@brcosmin In KDE, dialogs disable interactions with the parent window, so clicking on buttons in the parent window won't do anything. There's even an effect of changing color/contrast of the parent window so you know a dialog box is open for that window. However, for some reason this particular dialog for adding a printer is not an actual dialog box but a regular window.
I think the reason zipping the files was so slow for Linus was the 3+ GB video, and the files were on a USB stick. Progress bars for file operations on USB sticks also seem to just hang until a file has been completely processed, which is why he thought it was stalled.
Progress bars in plasma often don't have any ETA or percentage progress, so you have no idea if the process is stalled, crashed or similar. The bar just stays in place and you wait for it.
The "snipping tool" issue could be fixed with select keywords that get flagged when windows specific names are searched for instead. As a non-developer, I wonder if it would be as easy as having the search utility have a text file that contains the windows-specific keywords along with the "reccomended" utility names on the same line of text.
The same file could even contain certain mac-specific keywords as well, if the concept works.
These keywords are part of the . desktop file of the applications, the .desktop file in this case contained the keyword "snip" so it was found, but when searching for "snipping" it is then not found
@@jonathanbrouwer3026 Seriously? So a keyword was added yet nobody thought to add a redundant keyword (like how "search" may include "searching" and other variants). I don't really know how to react to that info. Thank you for letting me know!
20:04 Cause it's called "snipping tool "in windows, he probably went by that
@Watcher It's actively anti-user tbh, but we all got used to it in the end.
21:10 Dragging and dropping files and folders works a bit different in Windows and in KDE
In Windows if you click on a file/folder with a Left mouse button and drag it somewhere, it will get moved (if you're dragging it to a location on the same drive) or copied (if you're dragging it onto a different drive)
If you click and drag with a right mouse button then Windows will show you a context menu
In Dolphin dragging with a Left mouse button shows a context menu like you showed, and right mouse button just shows context menu for the file you clicked on.
In conclusion, it's just habit from Windows
Yes, after a year on Linux and almost two, it's an issue I still run into sometimes, old habits die hard. Not the fault of Linux or Windows, both are good solutions, but this is one of the things I find hard to get used to.
The left-click drag make me confused the first time too but I like the Dolphin way more because it preditable and I like right-click drag on Windows anyway.
I'm gonna add what Niccoló talked about towards the end, you don't need to do it the windows way, but if linux devs wants to help windows users, it needs to at least be understandable what is different. Maybe have some sort of "windows to linux mode" or whatever, which is just a set of setting defaults which either mimics windows behaviour where applicable (such as the "minimize all windows" instead of "show desktop"), or use settings which are a bit more "handhold:y" like "Is this what you actually want?"
@@weakamna Yes, this please! I don't get why Linux devs are so adverse to copying windows. I don't see how having these options would in any way take things away from Linux power users.
@@ijiikieru Isn't the point to be flexible? Like wouldn't it be the perfect flex to say "we can be exactly like windows if you want to, but we also have _more_ options"
For 13:53 i think showing progress bar inside the dolphin like nautilus or showing under the newly created file will be great for such things
@@mamamia8891 Cosmetically, I'd be tempted to overlay the file size field with a progress bar [in the highlight colour for the current theme]
because this would not take up extra space or a dialog,
and would draw attention to the file size still increasing while compression not complete, and be near where the user's attention was on the folder window.
Not saying it would be easy to implement.
However technically I would also consider creating the temporary file in RAM (based on estimated size) with backing store on the fixed disk if necessary. Creating and appending the temporary file on USB storage while also reading the source file from USB storage would be bad on Windows too.
Pretty sure 7-Zip on Windows has options for default temporary file location.
The challenge would have gone better if they weren't constantly working from a USB folder esp. while manipulating a 3+GB video file.
@@mamamia8891 you could make the progress bar part of the file icon I guess
or maybe play a sound effect when the notification pops up, or make the notification a window that appears in the middle of the screen like Windows does?
20:06 The default app in windows 10 to create partial screenshots is called the snipping tool, so i guess for him the application to create screnshots is a snipping tool.
15:40 one solution would be to make the notifications bigger on a bigger screen, so like draw it depending on the percentage of space it should occupy vs just pixels, so that it would occupy 1/6 of height both on 1920p and 4000p. Though not sure how easy it would be to implement.
Every single reaction to Linus and Luke being able to just use their printers without any issue has been exactly the same: "Oh, it just worked?" LMAO
"Games are boring"
Me looking at his wall of board games at the back of his room
20:10
Snipping Tool is the screenshot tool that comes with Windows.
Dolphin is my favorite file manager, but yeah it is definitely very clunky. I think there is a much better way to organize everything that you can customize, rather than hide them under layers upon layers of different drop-down and menus.
Many times I saw "oh wait you can customize that?" was when I was messing around and accidentally clicking on cool things.
Yea, its called ribbon UI, but old farts hate it with so much passion that no linux developer will dare consider using ribbon ui
Thanks for pointing out that that the 'show desktop' and 'minimize all windows' are actually two different widgets. I went to the settings of the default 'show desktop' widget so many times and I could never figure out how to change the behavior. These two widgets should probably merge into one and be configurable.
The ZIP file that is still being compressed should be hidden (. at the filename) until it is complete, the way it is currently done is incredibly dumb - why is the user presented with the file with gibberish as an extension instead? At least .incomplete or .inprogress instead if making it a hidden file is somehow not acceptable.
Feedback so you know the compression is in progress, you can even look at file size to monitor it's progress :D
I would rather have it presented, then hidden so that makes me wonder what is going on.
I don't know about hiding it as this could be more confusing to the user of "why is nothing happening I told it to do something [rage]",
but instead/in-addition of what looks like a hash string, put ".temp" (tmp maybe but that could get confusing to very low level users),
also creating any archive in GUI should probably ask for a name (I have seen conflicting into from Manjaro/KDE that "if all the files have a common name then the archive will have that common name")
@@gardian06_85 well there is a progress bare too, but he is missing those as they are on his other monitor at the bottom.
@@EwanMarshall Linus isn't running multiple monitors, he is running an "Ultra Wide"
even Nicco said 'that would be an issue, but that is a very special use case' to which I am of mixed thoughts on.
the system is already appending what looks like a hash (maybe to ensure uniqueness [shrug]), so maybe something more meaningful to the user like temp (even if the name was different then the actual structure on the drive), or like grey it out to show "not yet"
@@gardian06_85 Actually, both, but, yeah, I've had the same issue with 2 monitors, but yeah, forgot he is on really big one. Hunt for the notification is not ideal, though plasma trying to centralise them is also interesting...
To be fair, big monitors like that are fairly common already and getting more and more popular. In my environment pretty much everyone at work has these ultra-wide screens. A small notification at the bottom left corner is very easy to spot.
The signing popup was straightforward bad UX. It should be bigger and more visible, maybe with an overlay and a text in the middle. Flameshot does something like that for snipping screenshots and it's very nice.
The zipping was bad UX too in that case, with the notification again, same as copy and not asking for a name. Most programs I use create the file, but then go to rename directly so I can pick one. It's often set to the folder/filename depending if it's one or more file, but if I press enter or lose focus it confirms. If I type I can change easy. It was very slow, because the files where on a USB drive ("Kingston"), that is slow no matter the OS. 😅
Searching for snipping tool makes sense, because taking a screenshot of part of the screen (or rather taking a whole screenshot and then snipping it to the right size), is called snipping. It's good, that the keyword snip was found.
The drag and drop issue was something I still stumble upon after Linux as a daily driver for over a year now: On Windows you drag & drop with right click, which KDE and Cinnamon seem not to support. Linus tried that too. Dragging with left works, but moves if on same drive or copies when on other drive (so context is important), with shift, ctrl etc, the default action can be modified which changes the cursor. But even on Windows not many people know and use that. So it's a fair mistake a fresh Linux user might make.
I also don't agree with the refresh button thing. I need it fairly often, so I went to the settings and added the button. I mostly use Nemo (Cinnamon user here), and there the Refresh is under "View", so just two clicks away and not hidden deep inside context menus.
All in all, I think the challenge went pretty well. But one nitpick I have as a developer: Never use "that's not a common use case" as an excuse. Sure, it can be helpful for prioritizing tasks, but demographics can change quickly and something minor can become a problem or, we as developers, are a bit out of touch what most users need. Big screens are much more common than you give it credit for, become more and more common and the notification system is not well designed for that. My recommendation would be, to pop up the notification on the focus spot, e.g. where the file was pasted/zipped/whatever, or at least screen center, and then move it in a smooth animation to the screen corner and keep it there.
In Dolphin, “Refresh” is the first item in the “View” menu. It wasn’t there in the video because the menu was hidden in the first place, so to get to it one need to make extra clicks.
@@mishaerementchouk I just have the menu bar visible by default, so I didn't see what his issue was here at first. Menu bar visible by default should probably be the default setting, it is what most Windows users are used to.
@@shawnsorbom8907 Frankly, I am not a Windows user but I prefer to have the menu available by default. I usually replace it by the hamburger menu in the title bar, but this should be a conscious decision.
I really love this reaction video. I'm new to Linux and overall I've been really impressed with how most of the Linux community has responded positively to feedback. This makes me feel even more energetic about wanting to make the move full time.
Linus did a great service to KDE on this video, just like he did for apt and pop! os in the previous one. Shining a spotlight on bugs and pain points points developers in the right direction. There was a quick fix for the apt blunder coming from Debian, and a more thorough solution is being thought of thanks to that video. Hopefully the KDE developer community takes to heart his criticism and improve KDE too.
When we put Linus' comments in a nutshell: one main point of his critics is the condescanding attitute of the Linux Community
Even more specifically it is the condescending attitude of _some people_ in the community. There is only so much we can do about that and the other half of the coin from Linus' complaint are all the obnoxious complainers who direct their fury on the wrong people. I wouldn't even be surprised if they are the same people sometimes.
@@nicolaim4275 Maybe it would be more helpful to establish a more professional support structure, when it's really wanted to have a bigger market share. Focus ressources in support and development of a small set of distributions.... Bigger market share will also result in less educated users, like Linus also mentioned. But maybe it's also not wanted to support hipster apple users & their chai lattes all the time. ;-) I as a 95% Windows User would be happy, when my Zorin 15.3. would upgrade by itself to Zorin 16 ... just to mention one example.
@@wutzedale The problem is that the limited resources of volunteer efforts generally don't allow for that type of support structure. It is a very ad-hoc system for better or worse. But the situation with getting help has gotten better each year for more than 15 years since there are more GUI-friendly new users each year.
@@nicolaim4275 When MS or Apple would maintain hundrets of versions of their OS, even they would feel limited to invest properly each and every version
@@wutzedale Every time a customer gets a 'no' from Microsoft or Apple, a new Linux distro is born.
creating symlinks and knowing what a symlink is, sure is pretty easy for those that use a linux OS or are a developer that uses linux.. However someone coming from windows is not going to understand what a symlink even is because Windows' uses a context menu option that says create shortcut, using the "send to" context menu on windows also has a "send to desktop" option which automates the process even further. Sure some windows power-type users might know what hardlinks and softlinks are but those users are not common at all, the common user is not going to know what any of it is.
I've been very impressed by your level-headed and rational critique of Linus' videos.
You seem to have a very good way of taking on board the criticisms without responding like you are being personally attacked.
That's a great way to address these issues and it means there are knowledgeable people like yourself who are willing to affect real change for the better whilst keeping all the great parts that keep Linux unique and powerful.
I adore your personality. Love your comments, I'm so happy to have discovered you through this recommendation. ❤
There's a lot of wisdom in this video. Great job and keep up the good work!
For the «creating a link to a file» task i think there were two options what Linus was trying:
① When you right click a file/folder in Windows, the context menu has an item with the name [Send to ▸] And one of its (sub) entries is [Desktop (create shortcut)]
② In Windows it's possible to drag files/folders with the pressed right mouse button, because in Windows does the context menu appear when you release the mouse button, NOT when you press it. So: When you drag a file/folder with the pressed right mouse button and release the button in the target folder the opening context menu contains at least these four entries:
⇒ [Copy here]
⇒ [Move here]
⇒ [Create shortcuts here]
⇒ [Abort]
I think Linus was just more frustrated with the results of the overall system than with the developers of Dolphin personally and when he said "THIS SUX", he was more just venting than trying to berate the efforts that the devs have put into the project. That said, I think there's always room for improvement and the whole point of the challenge was to go from Windows to Linux, so it's not surprising that there is a bit of frustration. The vast, vast, vast, majority of Linux desktop users came from Windows first, so it might be worth considering at least making it a little easier to make the transition and if the user decides they want a more decidedly "Linux" experience, to have some clear options in the primary settings panel so that they can make the transition smoothly. Just my thoughts. I know the KDE environment was never meant to replicate Windows, but I think it's one of the things that the Cinnamon desktop environment has done really well and why it's taken off so much in the past few years. Personally, I've used KDE, Cinnamon and XFCE over the years and I'm always tinkering around with my desktop environment when I get bored, but most people don't want to do that, they just want to use their computer like a computer. Linux users like to tinker, but most users just want to go on about their business so I think we need to try and relate more with the end user.
I love KDE. Thank you for working on it sir!
Great video, thank you 🙂
Having had to work on Windows for the last 20 years, I can say that Linux is a learning curve but certainly not impossible. KDE Plasma is a beautiful distro that works. Sometimes you won’t know how to do something and that can be frustrating but guess what Windows is the same. Not everything works on windows. They just target their audience more specifically and especially where it generates revenue.
KDE Plasma is a joy to work with and Linux is a viable alternative to Windows.
15:00 ish. Another solution would be to not show the temporary file to begin with. It could be as simple as making the temporary file hidden, but some users such as myself always go in and set it to show all hidden files. So another solution would be to have a centralized temp files folder somewhere else, and when the process completes, it can move the file back to where it should be. And move operations, unlike copying, as long as the source and destination are on the same drive, should be near instantaneous.
The reason why I like these solutions is because rather than trying to get the user's attention so they don't screw things up, why not just make it impossible for them to screw it up to begin with. And no power user would want to operate on a temp file while it is currently being written to by this compression process anyway.
Different temp location may be in a drive with lower space and then it needs to move to the current folder when done. So that is not a solution.
The best is to make it hiddent and add .temp in the name even blah.zip.temp.randomletters
That's not a good idea ... I mean what location do you chose for the temporary file?
Imagine you're doing this on an external drive like Linus is. Do you make the temporary file in your own filesystem somewhere and THEN move it onto the external drive? You'd need a temporary file to move it there which creates the problem that you've tried to avoid, you just added extra moving parts. Or maybe you create the temporary file on the drive in the first place in which case the user sees that and deletes it because "what is this thing and what is it doing here"
@@MrRolnicek It could be a hidden directory at the root of the drive.
@@ex0stasis72 Yea that's the one that's getting deleted ... "what's this hidden file doing here? I didn't put it here and it sounds suspicious"
Hiding the file would cause the newbie user to assume that their action wasn’t performed.
Linus' missing the bottom right zip notification. I too thought that's because of the size of your monitor and how close you are to it. Reminds me of people who buy huge TVs and put it in a room that's far too small for the TV.
This is how a reaction video about technical issues should be made. To the point, no drama and nothing like this is sparta.
@16:00 I don't use Dolphin nor KDE, but I wonder if it would help normal users if there were a "Progress" column in the in Detail view which could show a bar, plus the percentage of the action which is happening with the file. So you'd have "Name", "Progress", "Size", "Type", "Date" as the column headers. This way if individual files were being written to, copied, zipped... the user could see what is happening.
I find it very good, that an actual Developer acknowledges his Problems.
What we need is Linux, that just works - and is extremely easy to use. No Command Line - ever, unless you need to some real advanced Stuff.
And we seriously need a better Mindset in the Community.Don't be condescending, be nice and just answer. Everyone starts somewhere. Some will have Linux as Hobby - which is absolutely fantastic! But most People just want to get their work done, play some games and watch a few Cat Videos. No tinkering. Just working.
And of course, we will still have our Gentoo, Arch, Fedora and whatever you like. We can have Linux for all Skill Levels. A Power User won't use Ubuntu regulary, but both Ubuntu and Gentoo exist in the same Universe.
I use OpenSuse and Kde, I really like Yast since it makes configuration so easy. While I use OpenSuse , it doesn't mean other distro's are bad. When you boil it down, they are all Linux . As to Kde, it really works well for me. That doesn't mean that Gnome, Icevm or any other DM is bad, is bad, it means that I like KDE. If someone asks a question about something, I answer if I know A solution. Others most likely will have a different (and most times better) solution. For example, the refresh in Dolphin has bitten me in the butt off and on, but I never really worried about it. Today I edited the Dolphin toolbars and added a refresh button.
I'm impressed with your seriousness and acceptance of the feedback. Some people just sit on their throne and demean the feedback given, good to know a fella with genuine acceptance and understanding instead of belittlement and condescending tone.
15:37
Actually, when I first saw the copy notification in action on quite a smaller monitor back in time (1920x1080 if I remember correctly), I got confused as well. The notification area does not really get into my eye sight, so I believe that if you do not know that it is there, you may pretty miss it.
On how to make the notification more apparent - I really like how TotalCommander did that. When there is a long running operation, the commander would bring a modal progress bar with a "run in background" button that can be also triggered by pressing "b". Effectively, this "run in background" button hides the progress from your eye sight, but this is an intentional user decision and therefore the user knows that he should track the task progress somewhere on the side.
This is what i've been waiting for
I would argue that Dolphins zip failure was presenting a temporary/in-progress file to the user. It should have created the temporary zip in the tmp folder and moved it once completed.
I'm not 100% sure but it's probably because he was zipping on the USB directly and moving it to tmp and back would've been even slower?
Better if it was just a hidden file in the same directory.
@@arishaig yes, I'd settle for that too
this is awesome, watching a dev follow a users experience live. i have so many times found work place applications fail any real basic user style due to the distance the dev is from the basic user. your candidness is commendable Niccolo, dont take the user personal talk personal.lol its a user with extensive knowledge in a different system as like the user will blame the unfamiliar
MAD RESPECT TO NICCO! He's so nice ♥ He acknowledges the criticism where it is fair
14:06 - As a recent convert to Linux (Arch with KDE) having the progress notification for Ark (and dolphin file copy operations as well) all the way down in the bottom right corner of the screen is a minor annoyance. Having an option to have the progress notifications for these programs either in the middle of the screen or free floating would be nice.
I feel like the consistent theme of these videos is that Linus isn't as tech savvy as he likes us to believe. 😂
Not knowing weird quirks and barriers of some OS has nothing to do with not being tech savvy.
@@vast634 Well, I mean. There's not realising the refresh button is in a sub-menu, and then there's trying to zip and send a 3GB video on a flash stick for a timed challenge
@@Sollace It wasnt about how long the compression took, but that the OS did not make it clear that its still processing, and instead show a temp file that looked very much like a final zip. (same icon as zip, "zip" in filename)
Windows has both a refresh button in the explorer window, and also shows a window with a progress bar for compression. Both things that are essential feedback. KDE failed here to make that easily accessible.
@@vast634 Still, it's a timed challenge. Linus should have known it was a bad idea to zip a massive amount of data when he had a time limit. At the very least he should have known to take it off the USB stick first. And then of course you get to the part where he had to send it, and you can't send a big-ass 2G zip in an email. Linus should have known this before starting.
I'm not saying KDE hasn't had its own problems, but to blame every mistake on only one party is missing the point. My comment was specifically aimed at Linus being laughably bad at certain things in Linux, not just in this video but all throughout this challenge.
And again, "not savvy as he wants us to think" isn't so say not savvy at all. He's still very good at the part he knows, but he also has a lot of weird and unusual gaps in his knowledge about Linux, things that even I, as a full-time Windows user and only passingly use Linux for certain projects, could get around with relatively no issue.
The simple fact that his first instinct to refresh a file manager's window _is not_ to immediately press F5 (F5 works in windows too) is just ridiculous.
I really like this series of videos!
Man I did't know that you are the kde dev
Subscribed :)
kde is gr8
Thanks for making this video and for all the hard work you do making KDE. It was nice to hear your input on these things.
I do disagree with you that needing to manually refresh Dolphin is a niche case. I personally think the refresh button should be on the toolbar by default. Dolphin is very good at refreshing automatically for local disks and folders, however as a sysadmin I am connected to SMB shares all day and they don't always refresh when other users are adding/removing/updating files from other workstations on the network. I supposed this could still be argued as a niche case, but it's not unreasonable these days for a home user to have a NAS that the family shares. If for no other reason, it would be a safety blanket for those coming from Windows where there is a refresh button available by default. Anyway, adding the refresh button to the toolbar is one of the first things I do on a fresh install.
I am also glad to hear that the root access in Dolphin is being worked on. This is my only really pain point with Dolphin. I completely understand that it's for security and probably stability reasons. Again as a sysadmin, users always amaze me at how they can break a system even without admin rights. As an admin user though, I do need this ability from time to time, when the task is easier done with GUI rather than the CLI. Some a good use cases for having this are: copying and setting perms on HTML files where they aren't all in one folder to the web server root folder, system recovery from a live USB stick, adding wallpapers system wide, etc.... I usually drop to the CLI and open Vifm or just run the commands for this stuff, but it would be really nice to do in the GUI. Sysadmins are a lazy group after all ;-)
Maybe Dolphin could check if the user is a member of the sudo/wheel group. It could easily see that this particular user already is allowed to perform root operations, so that root functionality would be enabled, obviously prompting them for their password upon needing to do a root operation just like in the terminal. It could also tie into the sudo password prompt timeout setting for when it should prompt again for the password. This would prevent a non-admin user from being able to even turn this feature on which covers the security and stability aspects.
I have one thing to say: KDE forever! 😊 I think that I remember F5 being the refresh button from the MS-DOS and Windows 3.0 days, so I guess that’s why it was chosen and remained as such instead of Ctrll-R that was a later change, I think in Windows 95 if I’m not wrong… Great video!
Fun video. Appreciate all of your good work. Agree on the Show Desktop button. Manjaro also clearly beats Windows on symlinks and shortcuts. The printer thing was a huge win, too. For all of his griping, I think Linus made Linux look pretty good in this video.
This is a great exercise to review fonctionality in the linux desktops,
it benefits everyone and I'm sure Linus will fall in love with Linux like all of us, if he admits it, loll!
And like everyday in the Linux world, I'm still learning something watching this video.TY
A good idea for the temporary compressing file could be to make it hidden with a "." at the beginning instead of adding random letters at the end.
If he doesn't see the notification, he might think nothing is happening and keep making more zip files, so you'll have 10 zips happening in the background.
@Niccolò for the zip thing, couldn't you at least put a write lock on the temp file to avoid renaming it? Might give a hint to the user that the file is being used.
Great video!
About the Compress-Notification:
Remember when you tried to sign the pdf? And a hint appeared inside the document that you have to create an area for where to sign? And it took you quite a few moments to see that?
That's how it is with the compress notification, but worse, because you do something in the file-browser and what's actually happening get's displayed somewhere else completely.
As you already mentioned, the best part would be to display the progessbar on the file itself AND maybe a pop-up or something.
A progress bar/field with the words such as "Compressing", "Extracting" or "Copying" can be added in the area between the file/directory and the file's/directory's information, there a lot of space there for this. Renaming files/directories should be done on a pop-up or make the Name field expand when renaming to prevent miss-clicking. The actions should be happening on the same window that the user is working on and not as a notification in the corner, this is distracting for the user. KDE is beautiful but I find it too distracting and the options are spread all over the place and some are hidden deep inside a menu that is inside a menu. Settings in the Settings menu should be divided on Settings with most common setting and 0 sub-menus and Advanced Settings for the rest of the settings that the user rarely uses. KDE should consider the philosophy of the DE and make the user work flow a center for the development. Make it clear and simple on the eye and advanced and competent under the hood.
For the link file "challenge": In Windows you get the selection menu when you drag and drop with right mouse button. Linus tried that, instead of left mouse button, because he expected same behavior.
i also set up analog to the LTT challenge a dual boot again for my desktop with KDE the first time since years... but besides my windows desktop i also used Linux distros and free BSD for my 3 personal servers and VMs on it... so i just want to applaud how damn beautiful KDE plasma is...
Omg that new task switcher is amazing
The issue with the zipping was the fact that linus was making the zip file inside the usb drive
Well, if you don't know that KDE Plasma takes all the progress bars, and pop up windows and shoves them into the corner as "notifications", then its mighty confusing at first (Coming from windows, you'd expect that if no progress bar pops up, then the task is done). It happened to me back in KDE 3. I ended up liking the thing (after I realized what just happened), but calling it "intuitive" would be a stretch.
Yes, but Linus says they using linux for weeks, so how he cant know about submenu when drag and drop file, or progress bar in kde?
@@Dobaspl The progress bar is surprisingly easy to overlook, if you only copy smaller files. First time I noticed it was when I was backing up a 6 GB folder.
And the refresh button is next to the title bar on like every browser and file manager. Linus just made the (wrong, but logical) assumption, that if its not there, then it doesn't exist. (And it shouldn't be there, Dolphin is using the "Hamburger" menu concept entirely wrong)
You are one of the nicest and soft spoken devs I've ever seen.
Thanks for your open minded reaction video and for your work on KDE!
Dolphin was able to start as root up until a year or two ago. They changed it for security reasons, people freaked the fuck out and then the devs started to be very condescending to those people. I switched to Thunar, which doesn't look as nice but still enabled me to use my machine how I wanted to use it and not how the Dolphin devs wanted me to. It's literally the very reason I say Dolphin sucks!
The digital signing is also another point. It's clearly Ocular's fault. They didn't include a digital signature tool as every other PDF viewer with signature option does. They simply couldn't be arsed to include it.
I love Plasma but some of the default apps are absolut trash simply for devs that are arrogant, can't handle critizism or are just plainly lazy (as in Ocular's case).
It's an insanely bad idea to open your FM as root lol
Digitally sign a document is hard on any platform. Hardware support for cryptographic tokens is a mess. I've worked for years supporting on Windows and, trust me, it's very bug prune and fragile.
The refresh button was 3 menus deep. That's a function that needs to be up front. Also not all keyboard shortcuts are ubiquitous so it's not too weird a user on a new system whose first experience was it killing itself when he tried to install steam might lead to reticence to make assumptions.
I really like the file manager showing progress of file operations like how Gnome does it.
14:29 I wouldn't write this off as a fault of having too large of a monitor. I've been caught by this myself in (when I first switched to) KDE, with a pretty standard 1080p monitor. It only takes a moment of distraction to miss the notification in the bottom right. Linus did miss a number of other signs that something was going on (increasing file size, etc), but in all fairness it's not clear as to what is actually happening.
Had the same thing happen to me, though i don't miss it anymore now that my layout looks like Gnome, you can't miss a top center notification.
lol "31 more actions" that should not be a thing
Yeah there was discussion to change it to remove the number
The refresh button... I come from Windows originally, so I never even thought about it. When I wanted to refresh the file manager window, I just hit F5 and of course it worked as expected. You can waste a lot of time looking for stuff, when often you can get to it faster by just trying things.
For file compression progress bar, should be easy to just you know make that a popup Overlay in Dolphin instead of down in the corner with something clearly visible by default to show the user that something is happening, and display the name of the temporary file or something that's currently in use.
When Linus was drag and dropping files from Ark onto a Dolphin folder and it extracted for him into the wrong folder, i really can't reproduce this issue. And i've seen others stating exactly this: it DOES drop into the correct folder. I really think what happened here was he missed the folders icon behind the 5 filenames he was dragging around and they obstructed his view and he didn't notice. Would it be possible to improve on when you're dragging multiple files at the same time? Maybe make the list transparent so we can at least see if we hit the intended target or not, or group them somehow via icons, i believe Macos does it better here.
Also Niccolò i noticed from your previous videos as well, you've been watching these Linus videos in mpv, but it seems like mpv is automatically jumping through sections of it, is it possible you're using Sponsorblock inside mpv? It's not wrong, i'm not complaining, but if so, Sponsorblock also skips by default through "filler" sections which are marked on the video. And as a result it just skipped through some important discussions you may have missed because of it. And it's very disorienting for the viewer. Just something to consider for your future videos.
Thanks for doing this, it was very interesting to hear the thoughts of a real Kde dev. I hope you and the others can use his feedback.
I use a custom theme and the background on that list is semi-transparent, so I can see through it.
Dolphin has an option to open archives (at least zip) as folders. With this option enabled, the destination of the dragged files is not obstructed.
I can agree/understand most of your points, except for dolphin, just no, when my file manager prevents me from doing what i need to do, it's going straight to garbage compactor, dolphin is literally *the* reason i stay away from KDE and stick with Gnome for years now. Making excuses like "but you can make it nicer" don't fly, if i *have* to make it "nicer" to make it usable im just gonna install a different file manager, too much setup/brain dead defaults is a big problem! Don't get me wrong though, i'm not trying to hate on Linux or KDE, or dolphin for that matter, just listen to users ffs. I've been working with Linux for years and seeing maintainers ignore user feedback is the worst :/
Toaster at top center of the screen for 10 seconds that goes away (setting configurable timeout)
So basically file moves, compression, successes will popout from the top saying something like "Compressing file.zip.." or "Moving blah" etc. Then it slides up and away.
As a user of Manjaro with KDE I can relate to not noticing the notification about copying files (happened to me few times already when I wasn't aware of the file sizes). Personally I really like the idea with the progress bar on the file/directory itself. Or just a simple pop up like Windows does that you can't really miss.
Btw he searched for "snipping tool" because this is called like that in Windows. It would be nice from the newbie POV for spectacle to pop up in search when searching for this term.
First thank you for everything that is KDE, I know you are just one dev amongst many. Linux has come a very long way, been using it off and on since early 2000's. Firstly to run a counterstike server on arch Linux I even had installed a desktop. Stopped due to plugin support. About a year and a half later I was using something else for a desktop. I forget what it was. But there was major issues running a dual monitor setup on nvidia at the time, I did get it to work. Then was stopped for a bit when I wanted to run a game on one monitor and have the second for web browsing and other things. This did not work at all. The hate I got was incredible when I asked for help, lamer gamer was the phrase of the day. Took me 6 months on my own to get it to work, I remember basically rewriting a majority of xorg a bunch of other system files. I was able to drop the game screen to background while still up and click over on the web browser on the other screen. When I posted my success back in the same forum thread, they all wanted to know how I did it. Because of the initial hate, I gave the middle finger. I got stuck on something else again and I gave up in short order and went back to windows. Next time I tried, was linux mint kde. It was very nice. Triple monitor worked out of the box with very little messing around, that only lasted a few months again due to gaming support. Was not gonna ask in forums because lamer gamer was still parroted a lot. These days I'm a windows sys admin of a fairly large corp. I run a domain environment at home, with roaming profiles. I am glad Linus did this it shows what still needs looked at within the Linux community. With windows 10 ending in a few years and the direction microsoft wants to go. For my home stuff, I want no part of it. There are many out there that are thinking the same thing. Sys admins, Gamers and average users alike are thinking this. One of the biggest things a community can do is be inviting. I am glad there are devs out there like you. Keep up the great work. Now time to start converting over all my servers/systems and desktops to linux. This is gonna be a very long project.
8:39 I do think the average user will be able to understand that this is a folder located on their machine... But it does indeed lack the instructions to actually install these certificates.
If I go to my gf (who uses Linux from a year) and tell her 'hey can you open dollar home slash dot etc slash ...' she'd be like, what
Well, some other guy reacting to this video explained it really good. There are basically two ways you could understand the "digital signing" exercise. The first is a "I need an image with a signature" like Luke did. This might be enough for some use cases. In others, you need to digitally sign using a certificate (which may be on a smart card). For example, in my workplace I need to sometimes digitally sign E-Mails or need to provide my smart card PIN when accessing certain internal websites. This stuff is much harder to set-up and is what Linus is trying to accomplish. Usually, the IT team of the company sets this up for you. But I think this form of digital signing is hard on every OS, because just creating a certificate by yourself is usually not enough. You need some certification authority (CA) to sign your certificate to confirm it is really you. Companies often run their own internal CA for this stuff.
@@marcmil4064 Perhaps a dialog that invites you to select a signing certificate would be a more intuitive way to show "Hey! You need a certificate", and then you can go research how to go about this process of getting a proper cert signed by a known CA
@@niccoloveslinux maybe, as another improvement, sections like these in the kde docs could be marked as for advanced users only?
@@Flimzes Yes, a dialog where you can add these would be helpful. This would probably be a system wide dialog, since other applications have the same problem. You could offer the user to create a fresh certificate as well, but then you have a bunch of signed PDFs with self signed certificates, which is not more helpful than the signing Luke did. Getting this across to the user is a challenge :D
The reason why Linus searched "snip" , is because he is coming from Windows - and Windows 10 has 'snipping tool'.
good to know that you are maitaining kde ;) i used it on pop os and i briked my system with KDE5 so i switched to manjaro