KLH Model 5. The "Safest" Audiophile Speaker?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 31 ก.ค. 2024
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Many thanks for translating the manual and measurements. I've had these for a few months now and I've had a hard time placing them in my weird room. I had them further into the room trying to reproduce the 3D effects I heard at the dealer's much bigger room, but because one speaker was closer to a corner, that one had more bass-mid-bass energy. Thanks to you I've now moved them much closer to the back wall (~11-18"). They are now both equally energised with a healthier amount of mid-bass.
FYI the attenuator knob is confusingly labelled. the LO setting actually means low attenuation and more treble, whereas the HI setting means a high amount of attenuation and less treble. Even though my room has a weird shape and is fairly bright, I prefer the LO setting. I thought the MID and HI settings were a bit bland, as you say.
You're right about them not needing much breaking in. I thought mine sounded great out of the box. I don't know if it's psychological adaptation, but they do seem to sound better the more I play them, even with my weird room/OCD issues.
I'm not having any issues with the soundstage. I haven't listened to anywhere near as many speakers as you, so I'll take your word for it. In my system it all depends on the recording I'm listening to. Perhaps not as precise as my old monitors, but the Model 5's are way more linear/neutral and the sound opens up above and around the speakers. It's a trade-off I'm more than happy to live with.
EDIT: I've now moved the attenuators to MID as the new position closer to the wall was also energising the speakers with treble reflections. This seems to have clarified the sound stage/stereo image too.
thank you, i enjoyed this review :)
all of your measurements and listening thoughts came to a in depth impression for me to think about.
I'm throwing another $10 in the hat. Since moving my speakers closer to the wall thanks to this video, I have had so much fun listening to the KLHs and my system. The sound has finally clicked into place. Many thanks!
That’s great to hear. No pun intended.
In my 16 x 20 ft Listening Room the model 5's do a remarkable job. The bass is very solid and the midrange and highs are second to none. They are powered by a Marantz integrated amp and CD player. The speaker wire and interconnect are both DH labs.
Thanks Erin. You cleared it up at the end, but I think partway through you reversed you grill on vs grill off preference. I agree that most manuals are poor, glad to see one that provides useful info.
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Do you have a consolidated list of affiliate links somewhere? I use your link for Amazon. Help me help you help me ;)
@@Imperfect12345 the affiliate links don’t have to be item specific so as long as you click one for where you want to go, that’s adequate. But I just updated the post with the Amazon link. Here it is again. Thanks!
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Fascinating, very cool, thank you 😀
Great review :) I have this speaker 1+ years. I tired out matching with more amps, and i do not like the ab amps with it (nait xs, benchmark ahb2), but has more punchy and exciting sound even with the very cheap behringer a800 and has a good match with the nad c298 (purify based).
Prob. not speaking for myself here, but 'we' DO appreciate your opinion(s). Recently I'm doing more measurements with REW and your explanations are of great value to understand the stats vs listening. Thank you for pointing out helpful considerations for potential buyers. 👌
+ or - 3 db on the upper mid /highs is desirable . Good video mate 👍
Good information and review as you continue to grow your channel, but some humble viewer advice: please please add some photos of the speaker and maybe some panning video action showing the speaker close up and maybe even next to you as you talk about it. It really helps keep interest to see the speaker as you discuss its attributes. Keep up the content, your opinions are informative and helpful!
I know. I’ve tried but it always looks janky. I suck at that kind of stuff. Though, in some reviews I stand next to the speaker and show it off a bit. I just didn't for this one. And frankly, my time is best spent providing the data and honest assessment of actual performance rather than me providing cool photo reels and whatnot. I appreciate that stuff, too... but my contribution to the hobby is best spent on doing what no one else can do. With that said, I’ll try to provide some of what you asked.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Ron at NRD does it Best In Category in my opinion. I’d be REAL surprised if you reached out he couldn’t/wouldn’t help you out. He’s all about moving the audio/“HiFi” community forward.
@@GoggleAX Ron seems like a good dude. My problem really is time. I work a full time job. I prioritize providing the data over providing more pictures. You can find those anywhere. But no one else is doing what I'm doing in the manner I'm doing it. So I focus on that and hope viewers will be satisfied with using google images to get better pictures.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Don’t get me wrong, these are tremendously valued videos you produce, and without all of the nonsense that seems to so often be associated with our wonderful hobby. My suggestion was solely intended to be a) helpful and b) a suggestion. I personally enjoy looking into your deep blue (?) eyes as you break down all these audio measurement complexities, so I’ll watch everything you release regardless.! (The eyes comment is intended as an attempt at “creepy humor”, nothing else). 😇😂👍🏼
@@GoggleAX haha. I took zero offense. I was just explaining that while I would love to improve in some areas, I tend to have so much here to get through that I focus on what I can do. Maybe one day I'll get a break and have some more time to look into the tools necessary to make the videos more polished looking. But for now, I'm just doing the best I can. :)
Looking forward to your listening comparison of the KLH 5 and the Lintons.
Coming soon. If you're a Patron make sure to check Patreon because I posted the video earlier today.
Erin could you review the Martin Logan motion series speakers?
Thanks Erin for the honest review as usual. Hope the JBL L100 classic is next. I am trying to decide between the Lintons, Model 5 and the L100 classic.
I'd like to but they're pretty dang expensive. If you happen to have a pair and would be willing to send them my way, I'll cover shipping. (that goes for anyone else)
@@ErinsAudioCorner Unfortunately I don't have them. They are on my speaker bucket list.
If you prefer a bit of bass punch say around 80hz region, then Linton would be your choice. For me, I would go for Linton purely from tonality preference. Model 5 sounded a bit boring and tame to me.
Had the Lintons but felt Model 5 were significant step up when I A/B'd them. Can't comment on the L100 though, but they're pricey!
In your opinion, what would be the ideal room area for these speakers?
I heard you say at 5:10 that you toed them out 10 deg, did you mean to say toed in?
Another good review. I heard KLH and my first impression was that the bass lacked punch. Now, because tonality was very important to me, I chose the Linton in the end. Still there was bit of room mode but with a bit of EQ via REW and MiniDSP, I was able to tame the room and now Linton was perfect.
I have boomy bass issues with my lintons as room a bit small and not enough clearance from the wall ...might check these out :) Using celestion UL10 (sealed box) at the moment and boomyness is no more
front ported is supposed to help if up against the wall is only option i think... ?
Hey, when we were young (early 90s) was KLH not considered a junk brand? For some reason I recall seeing klh speakers at places like Montgomery Wards.
They went from being really respected to being terrible. The company was recently bought by an ex Klipch executive and they are trying to return the brand to their former glory.
Couldn't care less about their past, when they now (anno 2022) have two of the best speakers available in the Price class under 3000 $, with the Model 5 and Kendall. Heck, those rival some Sonus Faber speakers., especially the 5's.
Early 90’s 😂
Cool, I had the Lintons for a few weeks and then sent them back, I had some clarity issues with them in my Home theater setup, even with room correction/EQ. I got the KLH model 5 and the dialog just sounded a little clearer, and the image was way more solid centered (I could probably ditch my center speaker with these tbh). So it was a better fit. It did sound a little "cool", which may be that upper base dip you mentioned, but the room correction/EQ (I have a Yamaha so YPAO) fixed that right up. Though when I bought these they were only $300 more than the lintons, they raised the price like $500 since then. Lintons didn't work for my HT, but maybe if I had a dedicated stereo setup and a well paired amp. KLH has a biggers soundstage and more solid image, but those lintons were nice and warm and less fatiguing, so I it matters what you were going for.
Are there any speakers you have test that you can put against a wall or in a corner and still can offer good imaging and depth? That is what I have to work with in my living room.
I wonder if these speakers would complement the R-N2000A
A question, when we talk about on-axis with the KLH does the calculations take into account that the speaker stands has them off axis by default and are meant to be used with those stands? Really enjoy your reviews, especially your data driven analysis!
I’m talking horizontally. But, yes, also aligned with the tweeter firing at your ear.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Thanks for the answer! The reason for asking is that I, just for fun, tried to place them on my old stands and found that they were behaving in the same way as depicted by the graph, lacking in mid base and treble. But when I placed them on their own stands the sound changed and I found them to become more neutral. The length from the back and side wall was the same, the only difference being the shift in the vertical axis, and height obviously.
@@mw3640 That is the point. If you use the KLH as prescribed by KLH happy camper. If you measure at 90°, and then justify 5 minutes of explaining, the point is missed. They are just fine on the stands tilted so the time to your ear provides simple time domain equalization.
@@mw3640 The stands are meant to be used with the speakers, as the manufacturer intended. Why would anyone think it would be a good idea by not doing so?
Im so lookin' forward for your review of Linton vs KLH 5.
Thanks
Linton’s easy win.
@@HanifBarnwell you mean Model 5 "flawless victory" 🤣 Linton's not reveal anything, warm, thick syrupy sound. Model 5 are next level Imaging, crisp and better Bass, Mids and Trebles. There is not one category where the Linton's beat the 5s.
@@ManuelMedellin. By imaging do you mean relative to the Lintons? I’m not used to this kind of speaker (coming from small monitors) but I mostly heard diffuse imaging/wall of sound from the KLH
@@ManuelMedellin. fair enough, I don’t listen to modern music on a regular basis (and if I do I play through the Klipsch), since I’m stuck in the past and listen to oldies the Linton’s provide everything I need (especially on the vocals).
@@thepickyaudiophile I auditioned both in home and the best way I can compare the two is that the to 5's sound more like a modern speaker and the Lintons like a vintage. I found the Imaging and detail to be superior on the 5's but the Lintons to have that old school warmth and richness. I like both and considered replacing a pair of Pioneer HPM's with the Lintons iny basement rec room. At the end of the day I only kept the 5's. I have them in my livingroom and are used for both home theatre and critical listening.
The one good thing Indiana makes
After some finagling😅🤣😭. I love that you speak my language. No audiophile flowers words for this guy
A product with a real paper manual that provides good details on the product's use? Really Erin - have you been drinking? You know you have to go the manufacturer website and search for info for the first five days of ownership and then spend another week searching the forums. That's how it's really done. And, you had better understand that calling the company for help is impossible.
(Thank goodness for the very few manufactures that do provide great customer service!)
I am very, very satisfied with my KLH Model 5s. The music is well served by these speakers. The measurements you made are interesting. Your complaining seems above the baseline of every other reviewer. I understand your preference for a darker-colored set of drivers.
I use them exactly as KLH suggests they be used. They are easy on the ears if I am wanting to listen to them at stadium level, all one has to do is attenuate them. Simple and full of detail. At lower volumes, they are articulate. The Linton's prefer a volume level that allows them to bloom, then they sound right.
Your bias toward the Linton's took away focus from understanding the KLHs. It did not make me relax, it made me feel you were so anxious to justify your own bias toward the Linton. I felt rather used. Your measurements appear to have been done at 90° rather than tilted, as KLH prescribes. I got the feeling you were showing off at the listener's expense.
I approached your review with anticipation and ended up turned off.
You seem to have entered into this with your own bias; expecting me to love the KLH, maybe?
The measurements were taken at the tweeter axis as they are designed with the tweeter to be pointed toward the listener.
I sang opera for 15 years. I studied in NYC and Venice, Italy. More than a few of my friends are the most important singers in opera. So my orientation is rather particular. It isn't just a bias. I listen to performers with different ears than many listeners. I help professional singers and voice professionals.
In as much as the Linton presents instruments and pianos in a slightly rounded manner, I felt I could not identify the work of pianists like Glenn Gould or Jacques Loussier, or singers with whom I myself have worked with. Transparency allows one to identify not just melodies, but how those melodies are performed. I cherish music, because once it is played it is no more.
Perhaps that opens the door to perception?
I am not into picking the hairs off of a fly. When you hear Vivaldi played in Venice in the school where he taught, you recognize the room resonance
In comparison, the Mission 770 does an admirable job of this as well. I don't listen at the music, but am often listening for elements that may be observable only live or very transparent speakers. So, when you ask if I am biased, I am.
I could be happy with Lintons because they distance the listener: rather like sitting on the 13th row of a theater rather than on the 6th. They are less expensive. They are much larger and come without stands. They are not as fussy with the amp used.
If you listen to AC/DC Hells Bells there is something lost when following the entry of each instrumental group, it leaves on impression. If you remember, as I do, the sound of a singer like I do, my heart beats a little faster when the timbre is theirs.
To be sure, the Polk Audio R 700s are as much speaker as most non-rich audiophiles will ever need. It is also a great speaker.
But if I want to listen to the timbre of instruments & voices, I will more often choose something like the Buchardt 400mii or the KLH model 5. I stop listening to the speaker and focus on the music with those speakers.
@@clarice1001nights I wonder if Erin read this. I don't understand how a measuring tool can be accurate without being able to take those measurements correctly.
@@clarice1001nights Thank you Clarice. Spot on. Gaslighting comes to mind.
@@dropthehammer1360 Erin uses his "Golden Ears", no instrumentation required.
KLH Model 5 are some of the most misunderstood speakers in hifi. There is a politeness about them that is disarming. I believe this leads some testers to think them a bit weak or bland. I know people who expect a "JBL sound" to them, which they are not. I don't think the Model 5 should be compared to Lintons, personally. They sound totally different and have vastly different sound signatures. I listened to the Lintons often as I know people with them and local shops had them. The Model 5 are more refined and polite. If you like EDM or want or a more modern, bass-leaning sound, the Lintons are for you. But the Lintons are also grainy on top and the cross over is wanting. If you listen to Jazz and classic rock, the Model 5 are the only choice between the two, imho. And Yes, I own and love the Model 5. Nothing against the Lintons- fine speakers. Just not for me.
"You probably don't even care about my opinion"
Ha, yours is the most trusted opinion. Especially since it is opinion combined with facts.
I'm not even in the market for speakers and I was excited to see you reviewed these.
I know you’re busy as hell but can you give a weary traveler some idea about how these would fair against the kef r3? Very different speakers i know but i just love the look of these damn things….
So hopefully I can add some useful input into this debate. I have been searching for new speakers of this type for the last 6 months and am frankly pulling my hair out😵💫 I value imaging, clear articulate mids and warm but controlled bass. I had the KLHs on home Dem for a while, and whilst I liked their imaging, I could not live with the somewhat harsh metal dome tweeter and hole in the mids. I have tried many other models, including expensive Triangles, SVSs, Focals, Elacs, Dalis, AE, etc. I currently have the Lintons on home Dem and can confirm the general comments many others have made. I love old school speakers versus the more modern clinical narrow baffle designs and I like many aspects of the Lintons, but the poor imaging and soundstaging are driving me nuts. Also there is a lack of clarity in the treble and upper mids which robs recordings of essential detail. That said, I am still contemplating them on the basis I will upgrade the crossovers, which are the weak points due to relatively cheap components. I hope this is helpful to those considering these two speakers 👍🏻
Could I suggest it may be the gear you are using vs the speakers? I have a few amps and preamps laying around here, and have been through a number of DACs, and every switch in any drastically changes the sound of these speakers. Maybe try a R2R Ladder DAC? That was a night and day experience for myself, moving away from the chip DACs and going to the Denafrips Ares II was a game changer with the Model 5's.
@@michaelwright1602 Thanks but I am an old hand at this and to avoid this very problem tried the speakers with various front end components. I also own a wonderful R2R DAC, so have that covered too. I will be upgrading the Linton crossover shortly, which will make them a great speaker for people like me who prefer an old school style of presentation🤘🏻
18:06 you mean grill on?
No.
The best speaker reviewer bar none..
Erin, please try to correlate why most of us here feel the Lintons are warmer sounding than the M5s....
I don’t feel that way at all. I felt opposite. But it’s in the upcoming video. 👍
The vocalist is suppose to be closest to you in the center forward on the sound stage front and center. All instruments behind the vocalist and to the sides is suppose to be further back, just as it is at a live event.
Gerald, you know that's not right. The soundstage depends on the recording and the mastering of the track.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Almost all recordings have the vocalist front and center closest to the listener in the mastering of the recording itself. If a system doesn’t portrait this, it’s not proper. A proper system will render depth and layering. Drum kit is usually set back behind the vocalist in the center. Those layers and instrument separation grow in increased proportion as a system’s resolving power increases as does three dimensionality of the sound stage.
The vocalist being front and center is especially apparent in older recordings like Nat King Cole. “Unforgettable” , for example. His vocal is right there almost reach out and touchable and all the other instruments are placed well back far on the stage.
@@hiresaudiocosta873 that’s not true, man. Many (studio) records are nearfield mic recorded to each instrument/vocalist and they are recorded on separate tracks then mixed together by the engineer.
@@ErinsAudioCorner Exactly, but in the mixing process, the volume level of the vocalist is purposely set higher to give the illusion of a person standing up in front of the microphone, front and center stage.
@@hiresaudiocosta873 You should know that volume alone doesn’t determine depth. You need echo, reverberation, cues that extend beyond the source itself.
By the way your microphone is causing this very faint hiss as you speak, sounds like distortion or maybe clipping. But I’m listening with my phone so it could be a resonance in the speakers but it’s worth checking.
do not use a phone for internet....
thumbnail was a little over the top 🙃
Good one!
These things are $2,500 a pair. That's a joke. I bought two pairs of Cerwin-Vega DX5's on clearance sale at SEARS around 25 years ago for $99 each! Still got them. Everything is too expensive now.
Yea, stuff definitely ain't cheap anymore. Even the cheap stuff is getting expensive. And the legitimately cheap stuff is often pretty bad.
Second 🥈
third
If you have dogs and kids, you don't want speakers at that level and angled up, that's for sure.
I like the dB spec. and frequency response. But 6 Ohm nominal is a deal breaker for me. I won't even listen to a speaker that does not have an 8 Ohm nominal impedance.
Lol, wut?
6 ohm will give more power on same given amp than 8, impedance has no bearing on sound characteristics
All these retro looking speakers are so silly priced. They probably sold for $50 back in the day.
You are extremely ignorant
The drivers look like OLD CHEAP DESIGN from the 70's my car speakers are much more better and for $ 2,500 I would not buy particle board wood speakers. And you need a equalizer too. Nope not me!!!
You know nothing about speakers, and your Engish could be "much more better" too! Buy a dictionary, if you even know what that is