Super helpful video if you're a new cube creator just rediscovering your old Magic collection and lacking overall metagame knowledge. Everything I needed to know to even start thinking about how a cube looks is right here. Took about a week to even finesse the meaning of an unpowered cube (lacking the 9 or fast mana) vs a low power cube (tier 0 vs tier 2 archetypes) from dozens of reddit and cube forum threads. This should be linked as a part of step 0 prep for any new cuber. Well made.
this is exactly the guide I was looking for. I'm relatively new to cubing and this is a issue i've been coming across more as of late. Thanks for all the great work o/
I think there is alot more nuance to this, but obviously you can't get that in-depth without it being over an hour long video. I'd say my cube falls in a Tier 1.5 range. I think this strikes a good balance of having extremely powerful magic cards, and a healthy number of options for deck building and archetypes if you push for it.
There is a lot of nuance that this cannot encapsulate. I was really just hoping to give viewers a jumping off point for crafting their own environment. Hopefully, it creates a thought exercise where they reevaluate their own choices, and either find themselves reaffirmed, or make changes.
As always great video! I love that you love Aristocrats and play in your tier 1 too. It keeps getting just a little better each set too. Exciting times to like killing your own things! Concerning a thought I have on tier 1, I do run Tinker and Reanimate combos in my unpowered 540 cube. I find that while the combos themself can be the fastest way to kill someone in the cube, their lack of consistency and all in nature keep them in check power level wise. If you go all-in on the most broken reanimator ramp deck you are literally just that. Cool, you turn 2 reanimated a fatty and it got hit by Swords. Good luck with the rest of the game. Or you just didn't get the best opening hand and are stalling. Over the course of enough games, this will start to happen if you are running the risk/reward toward full-on combo style reanimate as opposed to adding as a possible finisher in a control/midrange deck. I really enjoy this style of environment. It has that almost powered level feel, but with a little less consistency due to less powerful rocks not allowing you to craft a combo kill as easily from a nonideal opening hand. Since I do often play with my one buddy we started going best of five as well. This helps make sure our decks have to be a bit more consistent and we get more time with them since we aren't going full three separate matches. Sometimes it's just fun to roll the dice though!
I've always felt & seen Tempo is just how Blue does aggro; it can't do *straight* aggro as well as other colors, but it has the disruption of tempo to compensate, and aggro in other colors supports it. Black aggro uses Thoughtseize to disrupt, 'Blue Aggro' aka Tempo uses spell pierce or daze. Patrick Chapin agrees with me as well in his Archetype breakdown, although to be fair, that's more for Constructed than Cube.
I feel like my premodern cube is tier 1.5 or 2. It is running 2 cmc reanimate effects like animate dead the premium reanimate hits are weaker since creatures were worse in the premodern times. I also support tinker but you need to go 2 mana rock into tinker to get something like teeka's dragon. Since both these combos rely on enchantments/artifacts all colours are able to deal with them (apart from red enchantment removal). The cheat is all 4 mana apart from oath of druids but I think the oath deck is hard to build. Removal ranges from 0-3 mana and my aggro decks and white weenie and (mainly incidental) goblins. Thank you for making this video. It's very thorough and I think it provides a good way of viewing your cube as a whole. If you find one or two archetypes are over or under performing, this video let's you know if those archetypes even belong in your cube or if there's something else you should be considering with them
This is such a helpful video, thank you for taking the time to research and produce it! You've made me think a lot about how my cube balance should be evaluated and some obvious changes I've been missing. I think this has been the best single video yet for cube design principal and if I were ever asked for a jumping off point from someone who knew the basics of cube and wanted to make one of their own I'd point them here. As for preferred tier to play in, I've only ever played my own cube and thanks to this video I now know it is mostly tier two with some odd splashes from t1 and t3
I've been wanting to redo my Cube (or create a new one) for the longest time, so I started watching your videos. It was not until this particular video and the chart in it that I knew exactly what I wanted to do: what you call a Tier 2 Cube (maybe with some hints of Tier 1). Thanks a lot!
my pleasure. I am not making content on youtube anymore, but I still regularly update my cube on cubecobra, and post our draft results, etc. if you are interested.
Great video as always. My cube is somewhere between tier 2 and 3. Pretty happy with my balancing so far. I was aiming for something along the lines of a streamlined/hi power retail format to begin with and have since shifted to a more traditional cube with upgrades that help push it up a little.
I'd have to disagree on a small point. Mono-red is very viable in tier zero cubes, and has a ton of disruption, specifically for fast-mana artifacts: Embereth Shieldbreaker, Goblin Cratermaker, Abrade, Ancient Grudge. There's also disruption for combo decks in eidolon of the great revel, land destruction with avalanche riders, reach with fireblast, bounce with Dead//Gone, and much more. You're also assuming Mono-red won't use any power to ALSO be fast. A turn 1 Koth of the Hammer is incredibly difficult to beat just like a turn 1 Emrakul. Additionally, just because a deck scoops to a turn 1 Emrakul doesn't mean it's non viable. Lots and lots and lots of decks lose to that, and it's OK. (Also, in your example, if they play Emrakul off show and tell and I play Cratermaker, I probably win there too). That is an awesome way to lose, and that's what makes cube so dope. Even losing feels awesome when it's to something utterly badass. The MTGO cube still supports Mono-red aggro, and that deck regularly 3-0's leagues. You clearly put alot of thought and work into your content, Matt, and it's very polished work. But you're also pretty unequivocal sometimes about what "can't work", which can be misleading to some folks. At any rate, keep up the good work, and best to you and yours!
The artifact removing bodies: embereth, cratermaker are solid and pretty much mandatory for red it tier 0. Red will have to scoop to many turn 1-3 threats Wurmcoil, batterskull, griselbrand, any eldrazi/blightsteel. Only black's hand disruption or white's tax effects can help red overcome these obstacles, and so red is best paired with one of these colors. Red can use the artifact ramp to be faster, and your point about koth is well taken, but many of reds threats is get rocked by a board wipe, and they turn on so much faster in a powered environment. I would also add, the larger the powered cube is, the better mono red can be. Powered cubes at 450+ will have power available less consistently in draft. As a result, mono red can be better because the other decks will be less consistent, but it will still occasionally just insta-lose. All of that said, you are right, that I can seem unequivocal, each person's cube is such a specific thing, and it is hard to discuss cube with everyone, without making assumptions about their card inclusions. I hope the guide is just a starting point as people consider their own cube environments with the chart as a lense to analyze it.
This was my immediate thought having played and watched a lot of Vintage Cube on MTGO. Obviously this is more generic advice but calling White, Black and Mardu Aggro better than Red in powered cube is a big miss for me.
Great video! This is a tremendous guide to anyone getting into cube. My cube has archetypes from Tier 0 and Tier 1 at 540 cards, and I think that's the case with most cubes at that level.
Thank you for this! I built a starter cube and when thinking about upgrading it, or upgrading the power level, i never have a good idea of what the difference is between power levels unless it’s like the big 9 lol. This is a fantastic way to show how one archetype differs across levels.
This is definitely one of your more in-depth videos and boy was it helpful. This helped me get a better grasp of where I want to take my cube and how to better manage the archetypes and combos within it. Keep it up 👍
Have my subscribe. Great overview. Maybe one thing to add: Those categories are not clear cut, there is some overlap. My cube, curated and balanced for almost eleven years, is somewhere between tier 2 and tier 3. Just imagine, the less powerful stuff from t2 and the better end from t3. There is cheap removal, but it can only deal with small threats, e.g.
Ok, this is an amazing channel, this is the 3rd video im watching non stop, and I barely stand 10 mins of regular youtube. Sick content, very informative, you guys r blowing my mind with ideas. Thank very much for the great work, can't wait to see some more cube stuff!
Love this video. Very good insight and advice. My cube is a tier 1 cube but without combo or planeswalkers. Due to these restrictions the "premium" archetype is aggro since it is not nerfed by these restrictions at all, as such every color and archetype is designed with fighting aggro in mind. The biggest insight I got from this video is that I may be pushing blue aggro/tempo too hard and should take out the weaker blue creatures and just keep the high tempo/disruptive ones, if someone wants to play a blue tempo strategy they can rely on one of the mardu colors for their threats.
Very well done video, My suggestion would be to slightly turn the music down, it wasn't loud enough to be distracting but you would benefit by putting more focus on your voice!
yeah, the music kills me. It sounds fine on my computer, but when my video releases and I stream it on my tv, sometimes the music is too loud. What were you watching on out of curiosity?
Hey does anybody know any good examples of Tier 2 cubes? I just recently started adding rares to my former peasant cube, and even de-powered the removal and am finding it difficult to find examples of that sort of environment!
Loved the video! Great way to break down what decks can exist in each power level! I'm definitely shooting for a tier 2 cube with the potential to go up or down depending on my play group! One question I had while watching the video a couple times now. Is what types of dual lands should I play to achieve a certain tier! I was thinking about playing the shocks and another set of duals but not sure which ones will make my cube stay in the tier 2 range
I have watched all of your videos on the channel so far, and have learned a lot in terms of cube design choices. I also realize you are a busy man and might not have the time for this, but I wonder if I could trouble you to have a look at my list and seeing whether you find anything out of place? I am aiming for a Tier 2 power level, although some inclusions feel borderline 1.5 or 2.5: cubecobra.com/cube/list/5e929268a0c28578ee399117 Thanks again for all your great videos and keep on doing what you do for the community. Cheers and thanks in advance!
I noticed a few bomby cards depending on whether you are trying to upgrade over time or not. If you are trying to power up, you can leave them: Dack, and Garruks seem every strong here, and spider spawning seem under powered.
I have to disagree in the tier 1 aggro section, mono red ia a good archetype when combined with a little bit of interaction such as strip Mine, wasteland, abrade, eidolon and such, the consistence is a Key
Isn't that what he said? I think he said that mono red aggro starts to work on tier 1 and lower. He sais that mono-red aggro however has no place in a tier 0, power cube. If people play moxen, turn 1 artifact ramp, entomb, reanimate, black lotus and tinker you will not be able to handle those turn 1-2 emrakuls, grislebrands, ionas, blightsteel colossuses or even batterskulls with your goblin guides and lightning bolts. You would be hard pressed to handle a turn 3 wormcoil engine with mono red. That's why he sais that a mono red aggro that has 0 interaction to stop the opponents broken stuff and tries to win turn 3-5 with small pings and 0 cards left is not going to cut it in tier 0.
@@cubefortwo Some of these cards you specifically mentioned, others were "hinted" at with your mana cost descriptions and some just came to mind because I used to play in a legacy league years ago (:
Super helpful video if you're a new cube creator just rediscovering your old Magic collection and lacking overall metagame knowledge. Everything I needed to know to even start thinking about how a cube looks is right here. Took about a week to even finesse the meaning of an unpowered cube (lacking the 9 or fast mana) vs a low power cube (tier 0 vs tier 2 archetypes) from dozens of reddit and cube forum threads. This should be linked as a part of step 0 prep for any new cuber.
Well made.
this is exactly the guide I was looking for. I'm relatively new to cubing and this is a issue i've been coming across more as of late. Thanks for all the great work o/
Trust me not only for beginners. its useful for me and im doing cubes for 2.5 years
Glad you found it helpful.
I think there is alot more nuance to this, but obviously you can't get that in-depth without it being over an hour long video. I'd say my cube falls in a Tier 1.5 range. I think this strikes a good balance of having extremely powerful magic cards, and a healthy number of options for deck building and archetypes if you push for it.
Nicely said sir
There is a lot of nuance that this cannot encapsulate. I was really just hoping to give viewers a jumping off point for crafting their own environment. Hopefully, it creates a thought exercise where they reevaluate their own choices, and either find themselves reaffirmed, or make changes.
As always great video! I love that you love Aristocrats and play in your tier 1 too. It keeps getting just a little better each set too. Exciting times to like killing your own things! Concerning a thought I have on tier 1, I do run Tinker and Reanimate combos in my unpowered 540 cube. I find that while the combos themself can be the fastest way to kill someone in the cube, their lack of consistency and all in nature keep them in check power level wise. If you go all-in on the most broken reanimator ramp deck you are literally just that. Cool, you turn 2 reanimated a fatty and it got hit by Swords. Good luck with the rest of the game. Or you just didn't get the best opening hand and are stalling. Over the course of enough games, this will start to happen if you are running the risk/reward toward full-on combo style reanimate as opposed to adding as a possible finisher in a control/midrange deck. I really enjoy this style of environment. It has that almost powered level feel, but with a little less consistency due to less powerful rocks not allowing you to craft a combo kill as easily from a nonideal opening hand. Since I do often play with my one buddy we started going best of five as well. This helps make sure our decks have to be a bit more consistent and we get more time with them since we aren't going full three separate matches. Sometimes it's just fun to roll the dice though!
I've always felt & seen Tempo is just how Blue does aggro; it can't do *straight* aggro as well as other colors, but it has the disruption of tempo to compensate, and aggro in other colors supports it. Black aggro uses Thoughtseize to disrupt, 'Blue Aggro' aka Tempo uses spell pierce or daze. Patrick Chapin agrees with me as well in his Archetype breakdown, although to be fair, that's more for Constructed than Cube.
I feel like my premodern cube is tier 1.5 or 2. It is running 2 cmc reanimate effects like animate dead the premium reanimate hits are weaker since creatures were worse in the premodern times. I also support tinker but you need to go 2 mana rock into tinker to get something like teeka's dragon. Since both these combos rely on enchantments/artifacts all colours are able to deal with them (apart from red enchantment removal). The cheat is all 4 mana apart from oath of druids but I think the oath deck is hard to build. Removal ranges from 0-3 mana and my aggro decks and white weenie and (mainly incidental) goblins.
Thank you for making this video. It's very thorough and I think it provides a good way of viewing your cube as a whole. If you find one or two archetypes are over or under performing, this video let's you know if those archetypes even belong in your cube or if there's something else you should be considering with them
I have a premodern cube as well. Do you have a list online for yours? I'd love to look at it and compare the differences between our two lists.
@@vaerthxaal cubecobra.com/cube/list/old_border_cube
Mono red decks tend to run land death and artifact removal as disruption.
This is such a helpful video, thank you for taking the time to research and produce it!
You've made me think a lot about how my cube balance should be evaluated and some obvious changes I've been missing.
I think this has been the best single video yet for cube design principal and if I were ever asked for a jumping off point from someone who knew the basics of cube and wanted to make one of their own I'd point them here.
As for preferred tier to play in, I've only ever played my own cube and thanks to this video I now know it is mostly tier two with some odd splashes from t1 and t3
This video is great! Thanks a lot for this great effort and insight!!
I've been wanting to redo my Cube (or create a new one) for the longest time, so I started watching your videos. It was not until this particular video and the chart in it that I knew exactly what I wanted to do: what you call a Tier 2 Cube (maybe with some hints of Tier 1). Thanks a lot!
my pleasure. I am not making content on youtube anymore, but I still regularly update my cube on cubecobra, and post our draft results, etc. if you are interested.
Great video as always. My cube is somewhere between tier 2 and 3. Pretty happy with my balancing so far. I was aiming for something along the lines of a streamlined/hi power retail format to begin with and have since shifted to a more traditional cube with upgrades that help push it up a little.
I'd have to disagree on a small point. Mono-red is very viable in tier zero cubes, and has a ton of disruption, specifically for fast-mana artifacts: Embereth Shieldbreaker, Goblin Cratermaker, Abrade, Ancient Grudge. There's also disruption for combo decks in eidolon of the great revel, land destruction with avalanche riders, reach with fireblast, bounce with Dead//Gone, and much more. You're also assuming Mono-red won't use any power to ALSO be fast. A turn 1 Koth of the Hammer is incredibly difficult to beat just like a turn 1 Emrakul. Additionally, just because a deck scoops to a turn 1 Emrakul doesn't mean it's non viable. Lots and lots and lots of decks lose to that, and it's OK. (Also, in your example, if they play Emrakul off show and tell and I play Cratermaker, I probably win there too). That is an awesome way to lose, and that's what makes cube so dope. Even losing feels awesome when it's to something utterly badass. The MTGO cube still supports Mono-red aggro, and that deck regularly 3-0's leagues. You clearly put alot of thought and work into your content, Matt, and it's very polished work. But you're also pretty unequivocal sometimes about what "can't work", which can be misleading to some folks. At any rate, keep up the good work, and best to you and yours!
The artifact removing bodies: embereth, cratermaker are solid and pretty much mandatory for red it tier 0. Red will have to scoop to many turn 1-3 threats Wurmcoil, batterskull, griselbrand, any eldrazi/blightsteel. Only black's hand disruption or white's tax effects can help red overcome these obstacles, and so red is best paired with one of these colors.
Red can use the artifact ramp to be faster, and your point about koth is well taken, but many of reds threats is get rocked by a board wipe, and they turn on so much faster in a powered environment.
I would also add, the larger the powered cube is, the better mono red can be. Powered cubes at 450+ will have power available less consistently in draft. As a result, mono red can be better because the other decks will be less consistent, but it will still occasionally just insta-lose.
All of that said, you are right, that I can seem unequivocal, each person's cube is such a specific thing, and it is hard to discuss cube with everyone, without making assumptions about their card inclusions. I hope the guide is just a starting point as people consider their own cube environments with the chart as a lense to analyze it.
This was my immediate thought having played and watched a lot of Vintage Cube on MTGO. Obviously this is more generic advice but calling White, Black and Mardu Aggro better than Red in powered cube is a big miss for me.
nice alternatives here! thanks for showing. very nice animation dude :-D
The table and the video really helped me understand my design goals better. Would it be possible to get a copy of the final table?
Great video! This is a tremendous guide to anyone getting into cube. My cube has archetypes from Tier 0 and Tier 1 at 540 cards, and I think that's the case with most cubes at that level.
Thank you for this! I built a starter cube and when thinking about upgrading it, or upgrading the power level, i never have a good idea of what the difference is between power levels unless it’s like the big 9 lol. This is a fantastic way to show how one archetype differs across levels.
Excellent video. I've been looking for a guide video like this for a while.
This is a super helpful guide, thanks! :)
How do you feel that the Strix guide would over-lay onto your tiers?
This is definitely one of your more in-depth videos and boy was it helpful. This helped me get a better grasp of where I want to take my cube and how to better manage the archetypes and combos within it. Keep it up 👍
This is such a quality video! I just started building my first cube and your videos are so helpful!
Amazing video. My group and I seem to gravitate towards Tier 2. Modern(ish) I'd say. Thanks for the great guide.
Combo in tier three is more or less 4 card combos or more I’m assuming as in rooftop storm + gravecrawler + vengeful dead + sac outlet
Have my subscribe. Great overview. Maybe one thing to add: Those categories are not clear cut, there is some overlap. My cube, curated and balanced for almost eleven years, is somewhere between tier 2 and tier 3. Just imagine, the less powerful stuff from t2 and the better end from t3. There is cheap removal, but it can only deal with small threats, e.g.
Thanks for the video, I am new to cube format. I don’t like standard and the eternal formats are not my thing either. I thought I’d give cube a try
Ok, this is an amazing channel, this is the 3rd video im watching non stop, and I barely stand 10 mins of regular youtube. Sick content, very informative, you guys r blowing my mind with ideas. Thank very much for the great work, can't wait to see some more cube stuff!
Ralpho, thank you so much! I really appreciate it.
Love this video. Very good insight and advice. My cube is a tier 1 cube but without combo or planeswalkers. Due to these restrictions the "premium" archetype is aggro since it is not nerfed by these restrictions at all, as such every color and archetype is designed with fighting aggro in mind. The biggest insight I got from this video is that I may be pushing blue aggro/tempo too hard and should take out the weaker blue creatures and just keep the high tempo/disruptive ones, if someone wants to play a blue tempo strategy they can rely on one of the mardu colors for their threats.
exactly, blue tempo can always use another color's threats.
this is an awesome video.exactly what I was looking for to start getting into building a cube :)
Where can I give Double thumbs up? ;)
Btw Music too loud. -5 dB my suggestion
Very well done video, My suggestion would be to slightly turn the music down, it wasn't loud enough to be distracting but you would benefit by putting more focus on your voice!
yeah, the music kills me. It sounds fine on my computer, but when my video releases and I stream it on my tv, sometimes the music is too loud. What were you watching on out of curiosity?
Exalted/Vehicles is something I has some decent mid level potential.
cant take this, how would blue and red not work? Don't u have sneack attack in red?
From this video i learned that my cube is power level 1,75
Excellent stuff, very helpful and makes total sense
Hey does anybody know any good examples of Tier 2 cubes?
I just recently started adding rares to my former peasant cube, and even de-powered the removal and am finding it difficult to find examples of that sort of environment!
I’m running a 450 tier 1 cube. What are some combos that could fit in around the twin power level that aren’t super parasitic?
Very nice
Loved the video! Great way to break down what decks can exist in each power level! I'm definitely shooting for a tier 2 cube with the potential to go up or down depending on my play group!
One question I had while watching the video a couple times now. Is what types of dual lands should I play to achieve a certain tier!
I was thinking about playing the shocks and another set of duals but not sure which ones will make my cube stay in the tier 2 range
got a link to the list?
I currently do not have a list because I don't have a computer. Also any time I try and view your cube list cube cobra does work on my phone.
Good video. My cube is like tier 1.3 (but has been gradually moving upwards lol).
you can thank wizards, power creep is real. lol
I have watched all of your videos on the channel so far, and have learned a lot in terms of cube design choices. I also realize you are a busy man and might not have the time for this, but I wonder if I could trouble you to have a look at my list and seeing whether you find anything out of place? I am aiming for a Tier 2 power level, although some inclusions feel borderline 1.5 or 2.5:
cubecobra.com/cube/list/5e929268a0c28578ee399117
Thanks again for all your great videos and keep on doing what you do for the community. Cheers and thanks in advance!
I noticed a few bomby cards depending on whether you are trying to upgrade over time or not. If you are trying to power up, you can leave them: Dack, and Garruks seem every strong here, and spider spawning seem under powered.
@@cubefortwo were u referring to both the garruks?
Good video
kinda not true, if mono red has fast mana it might also have a great start
I have to disagree in the tier 1 aggro section, mono red ia a good archetype when combined with a little bit of interaction such as strip Mine, wasteland, abrade, eidolon and such, the consistence is a Key
Isn't that what he said? I think he said that mono red aggro starts to work on tier 1 and lower. He sais that mono-red aggro however has no place in a tier 0, power cube. If people play moxen, turn 1 artifact ramp, entomb, reanimate, black lotus and tinker you will not be able to handle those turn 1-2 emrakuls, grislebrands, ionas, blightsteel colossuses or even batterskulls with your goblin guides and lightning bolts. You would be hard pressed to handle a turn 3 wormcoil engine with mono red. That's why he sais that a mono red aggro that has 0 interaction to stop the opponents broken stuff and tries to win turn 3-5 with small pings and 0 cards left is not going to cut it in tier 0.
@@DevineAbyss is dropping knowledge bombs.
@@cubefortwo Some of these cards you specifically mentioned, others were "hinted" at with your mana cost descriptions and some just came to mind because I used to play in a legacy league years ago (:
Love the breakdown :-) Happy father's day!
Thank you Stephen