Well a bit of correction, the Gwadan was destroyed in the latest chapter of F90FF manga. The ship was trying to rescue the RF Gromlin II, but F90PV & Charles's Lehr Doga came and blow the bridge of the ship to Kingdom Come
No, the Gwadan is clearly seen being destroyed in Zeta Gundam and the Zeta New Translation movie events. Either two possibilities exist for the events of F90. Either they are non-canon/alternate universe, or it is another ship of the same class. Gundam Wiki states there was three ships of the line and also states that the ship in the F90 manga is just "A gwadan-class ship." Given that there used to only be two Dolos-class ships until Thunderbolt introduced a third one and sank it in an ocean on earth, I think it's safe to say it's just another ship of the line as gundam writers play really fast and loose with production numbers.
No, no you're definitely correct. The one is F90FF is identified in Japanese sources as the third Gwadan the "Gwajar" and possibly either the "In-Excess" from Char Return or the Gwarei (which survived Sentinel). Also yeah you're right i didn't had access to the last chapters of the Trimurti battle so I had to go for the info of some sources that stated that "Legacy retreated its fleet after loosing their leader"
@@gundamfacts I haven't seen references to a Gwadan-class named In-Excess, but I have seen references to one named Inx, mentioned as being allied to the early Crossbone Vanguard. Could this be the same ship, with the name just translated weirdly?
11:20 ton for TON the Gwadan might be lrss well armed, but overall it probably still has more firepower. Likez if they had made a Gwazine with as much mass and volume as the Gwadan it would outgun the Gwadan by devoting less internal space to thr hangars which might cap put at oly 50-60 suits.
One of my favorite Zeon ships, and one I still hope may get a post-OYW surviving unit that gets access to a ballute and fulfill its role as a ship capable of atmospheric flight. As mentioned previously, it seems that the intent of MS Igloo was to retcon the 294m length stat and now claim that all Gwazines are 440m long. In MS Igloo we see both the Great Degwin (being struck by Solar Ray) and the Gwaden (abandoning A Baoa Qu) using the redesign. The Gwanban is one big headache when it comes to its length: in the new Zeta trilogy we have one scene showing an Endra passing in front of of the Gwanban, in the same orientation, suggesting it’s easily twice as big as an Endra (410m long), which could make it as big as 800m long. You see the image in the wikia’s entry on the Endra. Though in the thread in question, it was also suggested that the Endra might be closer to 300m in length, putting the Gwanban on a 600m more reasonable ballpark By the way, during the same discussion it is pointed out that the Sadalahn seems closer to 700m of length, which may actually work best for explaining how the Midalahn came to be. I should also touch on the Rewloola, which back in the mechatalk forums had sparked debate regarding its size, specially when Mark pointed out that even at 350m length, the proportional size of its catapult doors was too small for large MS like the Sazabi and Sinanju. Making matters worse, in Unicorn we even see in the 6th OVA a foreshadowing scene showing the Neo Zeong being assembled inside the Rewloola, suggesting a larger size to fit such a large MA. The 160m Musaka, which the official specs say is only 14m longer than a Garencieres (146m), seems to have been given a much smaller length spec as well, specially considering scenes where we see the Garencieres launching the Kashatriya or when the 2 Geara Zulus using it as an armory for attacking the Garuda. Moving on from lengths specs, I have also speculated that some disc like details of the Gwanban and Endra could potentially be laser guns, like those of the Sadalanh. The Endra has 6 of these red discs on top of its MS hangar and 2 more on the bridge. The Gwanban has 4 of these, 2 on each side of the rear half of the ship on either side. Lastly, while I realize how visually different they are, aren’t the King/Kaiser of Dragon and the Gwazine related? Given that the Gwazine was intended to also operate on Earth, but failed the reentry test, it sounds logical to assume that the King of Dragon may have been designed with the intention to replace it at its role.
In addition to a couple of Musaka-class light cruisers built too late to participate in Char's rebellion and being picked up by a Zeon Remnant group (which may or may not have been affiliated with the Sleeves), I've seen multiple references to a second Rewloola-class ship that survived at least into the UC 0120's, using its spherical fuel tanks and massive operating range to remain a ghost ship haunting the Earth sphere and harassing the EFSF with hit-and-run attacks for years. Also, is it just me, or does the Rewloola's refit include lengthening the hull somewhat, in addition to upgrading the two secondary turrets into main turrets?
Random thought: the name conventions of Zeon ships always gave me the idea that that is a "meaningful name" in zeonic language and the Gw- is the article part in that languaje
Naval Combat is absolutely vital to the operations of mobile suits and without these ships fulfill their roles the Ace Pilots of these Suits would have been shot down with ease and without a base to return their pilots will burn out after heavy engagements.
I'll say the Sadalahn is my overall favorite as far as big red zeon ships go, just like it's overall shape and how versatile it is though the Gwanban having a dedicated MA hanger is pretty neat. As far as OYW ships are concerned I really like the Chivvay-class for some reason.
For a bit of Lore, a long time ago I once planned to create a TH-cam Channel called the UC shipyards, but backed down after Kakarot did his video on the Salamis, which pushed me to instead try my luck on Instagram. Took me a year to decide to do the TH-cam ride but with a less specific content
Suggestion: i don't know of you will ever be able to get around to it but maybe the ships and MS of Thunderbolt should have their own episode as you have already covered the ship classes themselves. The Beehive, Beehive II, Ticonderoga, Spartan, Bermingham-Class and a new Meghellan carrier variant have all made appearances as well as smaller ships like the Minesweeper that play surprisingly important roles.
Digging a bit more around, I found a couple more ships you didn't mention: -The Sadalahn class Gadalahn from Meaningless War 0091 -The Rewloola class Gwazine Kai from UC 0099 Moon Crisis Perhaps more debatable, but given its role and the fact that the Gwazine was intended to fly within Earth's atmosphere, perhaps we should throw in the King of Dragons and its supposed sister ship, Kaiser of Dragons among Gwazine derived designs? On a different note, I recently noted the name Rein Dragun/Draghun for the guy in care of the Gwajar in U.C. 0116: isn't he one of the two leaders of the Axis Advance Force that went to Earth ahead of Haman in ZZ? The other one was Louis Bazaar. Supposedly these accounted for, first the Endra already at Dakar ahead of Haman and second the one at Kilimanjaro seen at the beginning of episode 32. If they are indeed the same person, that's one hell of an obscure cameo/returning character! I think there was s similar case with one of Char's political supporters from CCA appearing as younger version of himself in 0083 among Haman's supporters in Axis. Even more questionable, but despite the lack of a direct connection to it, the Gran Xandria from AoZ Reboot fits a similar role and is a similar gaudy design that seems inspired by other Zeon red capital ships. Supposedly its based on the Chivvay, or more specially the Tivvay from 0080, which I recall that Mark pointed out that it had to be much larger than the official specs indicated given that Gelgoog Jagers fit both horizontally and vertically inside its two launching bays with their wide shoulder armors, which wouldn't be realistically possible if it was the size of a regular Chivvay. And forgive my insistence, but if you need further evidence that all Gwazines have been retconned to the 440m size, in MS Igloo the Great Degwin is briefly shown as one of the large models with 12 propellant tanks. In the very next episode we see that the Delaz Fleet Gwaden, whose fleet retreats as the Jotunheim is launching flares and rescuing surviving friendly forces, is of the same type. Lastly, in the first episode of MS Igloo we see two Gwazines, both of the 12 propellant tanks type, participating, one which might have been the Gwaran (as suggested in the Library of Londenion). Lastly... hundreds of Magellans? Figures for the battle of Loum range between 12 to 48 Magellans... and in the later case it is indicated that 36 (75%) were lost in that one battle. By the time the Battle of Solomon takes place, 24 Magellans are said to participate, which are reduced to 18 for the final battle. It's also worth noting that one of the most consistent numbers out there is that the entire EF fleet by the last stages of the war consisted on 320 ships, including 128 battleships & cruisers. Out of these 228 were new ships produced by the Vinson plan, which originally aimed at producing 340 ship, but not only missed this figure by roughly a third, most of the ships actually produced were modified Columbus supply ships and small Public assault boats, which raised serious questions about the "success" of the plan. The 24 Magellans previously mentioned could therefore be made from the 12 surviving ships from the start of the war and 12 more produced before the end of the war, which gives us 60 ships. Now, there's one figure I left out, which is that the EF had 92 Magellans at the start of the war, however, that number would then suggest that 44 Magellans were sunk prior to the Battle of Loum and then 36 more at Loum itself, for a total of 80 out of 92 Magellans sunk during the first couple of weeks of the war, and which only got replenished by 12 by the end of the war. Ironically this means that during most of the war, the number of Magellans around was actually comparable to the total number of Gwazines built and also around during most of the war, with this gap only briefly increasing by the end of the war. So, maybe you could say that little over a 100 Magellans were produced, but most were destroyed in the early battles, after which their numbers were barely 2 or 3 times larger than the number of Gwazines around.
- Meaningless War is actually a fan made story. I know it's seems very "professional" but despite all the mechs files it remains a fanfiction. - I agree for the one from Moon Crisis but I decided not to enter fully the entire Moon Crisis stuff (else why I barely mentioned the Vectra despite it being one my favorite ships, instead of covering it fully). If I covered Moon Crisis extensively I would also have required to do the same for Origin with its Great Degwin (the only Gwazine of this continuity as it is a standalone ship instead of limited production). - i also support your calculations. Origin clearly states the Feds initially had 15 Magellans in the Tianem Fleet , and 15X3= 45 in the Revil Fleet so 60 for the battle of Loum (wouldn't be too far from mainline UC numbers) . Considering most of these got mauled, I would say it would be safe to assume they were able to double these numbers for operation Cembello and Star one. So I think around 120-200 at max is plausible. - as for the retcon of the 298m, most Japanese sources stands with this original size. Yes Igloo perhaps attempted to retcon it, but the Japanese still keep the original number, similarly to the original 100×100 size of the Gaw, which Igloo (and some other later sources) attempted to resize at 62×52m
@@gundamfacts -I remembered seeing Meaningless War at Mahq, but was confused as to why I could no longer find it there, guess it must have been removed for its fanfic origin. Pity as some of its ideas, such as a Dreissen derived Dom III (AoZ Reboot) did came to happen in more official capacity later on. -Could you do a video on Moon Crisis? The few details that have come up make it sound quite interestingly, at least on the mechanical side of things. -I do can agree that the EF probably wanted to build another 60 or more Magellans after the losses they suffered during the early battles throughout he Vinson Plan, but given the outcome of it, I doubt they actually managed to do so. As already mentioned, the plan aimed to build 340 new warships for the space offensive, but only 228 were ultimately built, out of which only 128 were battleships (Magellans) and cruisers (Salamis), with the MSV 3 book claiming that the rest were modified Columbus class and Public class ships, questioning the success of the plan. Out of the 128 proper warships, I think it's safe to assume that the majority of them were Salamis class. In fact, if we assume that the from the 24 ships that participated in the final battles, 12 were the surviving ships from the early battles and 12 were new ones, that means that roughly 10% of the 128 ships were Magellans. This is a lower % compared to early in the war, but if the Vinson Plan was already struggling to meet its goals, it makes sense that they focused on producing a larger number of Salamis, Columbus and Public ships instead. -Unfortunately there do are some weird figures floating around, some which don't make much sense. The Gaw figure for instance needs to account for the fact that a whole Komusai is supposed to be able to fit in the Gaw's rear hangar. 08th MS team also makes it evident that MS fit standing on the rear hangar of a Gaw (during Yuri's Odessa retreat). At the Mechatalk forums Mark also pointed out that the official length specs for the Rewloola and Musaka made some of their MS related features (doors & catapults) too small. IIRC, there was also some issues with the depiction fo the Alpha Azieru being towed by the Rewloola which also suggested that the ship had to be bigger, and in UC we see the Neo Zeong being assembled inside the ship. In the case of the Gwazine, in a twist of irony I think the larger 440m makes more sense for a ship with over a dozen MPC cannons, while the smaller 298m size makes sense for a ship with just 3 MPC turrets and ballistic AA defenses instead of secondary MPC turrets. But more importantly, I like to consider the Zanzibar Kai from MSV-R essentially a "Gwazine upgrade kit" for the Zanzibar class, adding additional MS carrying capacities (plus a proper catapult), propellant tanks and pushing the ship closer to the 400m, capital warship territory. Which takes me back to the Tivvay, which in the MSV-R manga is shown in a simulation as a replacement for a Gwazine in a 7 ship fleet formation. My take on 0080 ships is that they were intended as low cost ships to shore up Zeon's navy size to close the gap between them and the EF fleet, which is the explanation given for the Musai Final Production Type. The Tivvay would then be a low cost replacement for a Gwazine flagship, focusing on MS carry capacity and likely also speed given the size of its engines, a trait that The Origin version also decided to focus on. Sadly, like the Musai FPT, its firepower seems to be below average as its only confirmed weapons are the a couple of triple-barreled MPC turrets, that may be of the same size as a regular Chivvay's (in the original design these are rather huge turrets, almost 20% the size of the ship each), but weren't scaled up for the Tivvay (nor better placed, the rear one can't even aim directly behind it due to the larger engine block). The MSV-R manga does give it some missile launching capabilities, but it's unclear where these are placed. Anyway, that's why I think that the Gran Xandria (partially based on the Tivvay) can be considered a very distant relative of the Gwazine. But all of that being said, I realize that there are bigger "size issues" to be concerned with, such as The Origin's and Thunderbolt's gigantic iterations of the already huge & costly Dolos class. I don't even know how the one in Thunderbolt ended up in the ocean: did it descend to Earth from space or was it built on Earth? Either theory comes with even more questions, like how they managed to get something that large to Earth when they couldn't get Gwazines to reenter the atmosphere, or where they could have built it on Earth given its size and the resources needed. Lastly, I know I already asked for a video on Moon Crisis, but could you also consider doing one on Twilight Axis, as in the novel/manga version, not the awful ONA/film version, which sadly is the one most people are largely familiar with.
I actually liked the alava zeru. I do think its back story is over complicated and should have just been an abandoned mobile armor. Maybe if they wanted it connected to char, maybe say it was related to the nightingale. It's not like which continuity it was in mattered.
It's actually the same from CCA. As I stated in the video, Moon Crisis is AUC since it doesn't take into account the events of Unicorn (it was made prior to the UC novel). It was an original idea for a conclusion to the first Universal Century, which later was taken over by Unicorn
@gundamfacts how does Moon Crisis take Hathaway's Flash into account then? Being that Moon Crisis is UC 0099 (albeit AUC) and Hathaway's Flash being in UC 0105 (original novel version also being AUC).
@stephenemery8831 Depends, the novel was originally a sequel to Beltochika'a children. So if Moon Crisis is a sqqu3k to actual CCA if couldn't account for the BC timeline at all.
If I had to have a ship from uc, then its probably gonna have to be a gwazine class or derivative, the musai is just bad, and the federation ships have unreliable armor plating in key areas
I'm very sorry. I tried to upload the subtitles yesterday but the TH-cam editor was busted beyond repair so I couldn't modify the speech to text automatic subtitles, and after I erased them by mistakes, I didn't found any way to put them back
![ALL the variants of the Clop-class light cruiser (Gundam Lore/ Universal Century [CCA/HF/Late UC])](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/pSPQY_e5NAQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Well a bit of correction, the Gwadan was destroyed in the latest chapter of F90FF manga. The ship was trying to rescue the RF Gromlin II, but F90PV & Charles's Lehr Doga came and blow the bridge of the ship to Kingdom Come
No, the Gwadan is clearly seen being destroyed in Zeta Gundam and the Zeta New Translation movie events. Either two possibilities exist for the events of F90. Either they are non-canon/alternate universe, or it is another ship of the same class. Gundam Wiki states there was three ships of the line and also states that the ship in the F90 manga is just "A gwadan-class ship." Given that there used to only be two Dolos-class ships until Thunderbolt introduced a third one and sank it in an ocean on earth, I think it's safe to say it's just another ship of the line as gundam writers play really fast and loose with production numbers.
@@wolfehoffmann2697 Whatever the ship name is, it's still the Gwadan Class....and it do appears and destroyed in F90FF manga events
No, no you're definitely correct. The one is F90FF is identified in Japanese sources as the third Gwadan the "Gwajar" and possibly either the "In-Excess" from Char Return or the Gwarei (which survived Sentinel). Also yeah you're right i didn't had access to the last chapters of the Trimurti battle so I had to go for the info of some sources that stated that "Legacy retreated its fleet after loosing their leader"
@@gundamfacts I'm sure you'll get any help in your discord server, don't shy to ask
@@gundamfacts I haven't seen references to a Gwadan-class named In-Excess, but I have seen references to one named Inx, mentioned as being allied to the early Crossbone Vanguard. Could this be the same ship, with the name just translated weirdly?
11:20 ton for TON the Gwadan might be lrss well armed, but overall it probably still has more firepower. Likez if they had made a Gwazine with as much mass and volume as the Gwadan it would outgun the Gwadan by devoting less internal space to thr hangars which might cap put at oly 50-60 suits.
I agree with this ratio turrets per mass logic
One of my favorite Zeon ships, and one I still hope may get a post-OYW surviving unit that gets access to a ballute and fulfill its role as a ship capable of atmospheric flight.
As mentioned previously, it seems that the intent of MS Igloo was to retcon the 294m length stat and now claim that all Gwazines are 440m long. In MS Igloo we see both the Great Degwin (being struck by Solar Ray) and the Gwaden (abandoning A Baoa Qu) using the redesign.
The Gwanban is one big headache when it comes to its length: in the new Zeta trilogy we have one scene showing an Endra passing in front of of the Gwanban, in the same orientation, suggesting it’s easily twice as big as an Endra (410m long), which could make it as big as 800m long. You see the image in the wikia’s entry on the Endra. Though in the thread in question, it was also suggested that the Endra might be closer to 300m in length, putting the Gwanban on a 600m more reasonable ballpark
By the way, during the same discussion it is pointed out that the Sadalahn seems closer to 700m of length, which may actually work best for explaining how the Midalahn came to be.
I should also touch on the Rewloola, which back in the mechatalk forums had sparked debate regarding its size, specially when Mark pointed out that even at 350m length, the proportional size of its catapult doors was too small for large MS like the Sazabi and Sinanju.
Making matters worse, in Unicorn we even see in the 6th OVA a foreshadowing scene showing the Neo Zeong being assembled inside the Rewloola, suggesting a larger size to fit such a large MA.
The 160m Musaka, which the official specs say is only 14m longer than a Garencieres (146m), seems to have been given a much smaller length spec as well, specially considering scenes where we see the Garencieres launching the Kashatriya or when the 2 Geara Zulus using it as an armory for attacking the Garuda.
Moving on from lengths specs, I have also speculated that some disc like details of the Gwanban and Endra could potentially be laser guns, like those of the Sadalanh. The Endra has 6 of these red discs on top of its MS hangar and 2 more on the bridge. The Gwanban has 4 of these, 2 on each side of the rear half of the ship on either side.
Lastly, while I realize how visually different they are, aren’t the King/Kaiser of Dragon and the Gwazine related? Given that the Gwazine was intended to also operate on Earth, but failed the reentry test, it sounds logical to assume that the King of Dragon may have been designed with the intention to replace it at its role.
I’m a big fan of the Rewloola class, so to see it finaly get its own breakdown is Amazing. can’t wait for more ship vids.
Gwadan could use more catapults for rapidly deployingnand retreiving its compliment, but it is such a great ship already.
The Axis Zeon Gwadan and Rewlooa are some of my favorite Zeon ship designs.
Sadalahn bridge tower and neck reminded me of SDF-1 Macross
Zeon had the best ships. I would to have a couple of models of them.
I know you probably won't read this but: i hoping for a video like this for the Federation Pegasus-class ships like the White Base, Albion and Spartan
And the Thoroughbred and Blanc Rival as well
Not forgetting Blanc Rival is the most likely base design to created Archangel and Minerva in Seed
In addition to a couple of Musaka-class light cruisers built too late to participate in Char's rebellion and being picked up by a Zeon Remnant group (which may or may not have been affiliated with the Sleeves), I've seen multiple references to a second Rewloola-class ship that survived at least into the UC 0120's, using its spherical fuel tanks and massive operating range to remain a ghost ship haunting the Earth sphere and harassing the EFSF with hit-and-run attacks for years.
Also, is it just me, or does the Rewloola's refit include lengthening the hull somewhat, in addition to upgrading the two secondary turrets into main turrets?
The Fadlan is probably the inspiration of the remote gun turrets of Gundam Seed Freedom's Millennium.
Random thought: the name conventions of Zeon ships always gave me the idea that that is a "meaningful name" in zeonic language and the Gw- is the article part in that languaje
13:04 Those are all giant Haros.
Holy wait?! I just see them!
@@gundamfacts Artist easter egg!
love these videos. can you do some videos on crossbone vanguard MS , like the den'an zon?
Eventually, but it's a good idea I once wanted to explore
Naval Combat is absolutely vital to the operations of mobile suits and without these ships fulfill their roles the Ace Pilots of these Suits would have been shot down with ease and without a base to return their pilots will burn out after heavy engagements.
Still want a video on the salamis class
One day
I'll say the Sadalahn is my overall favorite as far as big red zeon ships go, just like it's overall shape and how versatile it is though the Gwanban having a dedicated MA hanger is pretty neat.
As far as OYW ships are concerned I really like the Chivvay-class for some reason.
Another great, informative video. I do enjoy the naval videos quite a bit. looking forward to more.
For a bit of Lore, a long time ago I once planned to create a TH-cam Channel called the UC shipyards, but backed down after Kakarot did his video on the Salamis, which pushed me to instead try my luck on Instagram. Took me a year to decide to do the TH-cam ride but with a less specific content
Suggestion: i don't know of you will ever be able to get around to it but maybe the ships and MS of Thunderbolt should have their own episode as you have already covered the ship classes themselves.
The Beehive, Beehive II, Ticonderoga, Spartan, Bermingham-Class and a new Meghellan carrier variant have all made appearances as well as smaller ships like the Minesweeper that play surprisingly important roles.
Digging a bit more around, I found a couple more ships you didn't mention:
-The Sadalahn class Gadalahn from Meaningless War 0091
-The Rewloola class Gwazine Kai from UC 0099 Moon Crisis
Perhaps more debatable, but given its role and the fact that the Gwazine was intended to fly within Earth's atmosphere, perhaps we should throw in the King of Dragons and its supposed sister ship, Kaiser of Dragons among Gwazine derived designs?
On a different note, I recently noted the name Rein Dragun/Draghun for the guy in care of the Gwajar in U.C. 0116: isn't he one of the two leaders of the Axis Advance Force that went to Earth ahead of Haman in ZZ? The other one was Louis Bazaar. Supposedly these accounted for, first the Endra already at Dakar ahead of Haman and second the one at Kilimanjaro seen at the beginning of episode 32. If they are indeed the same person, that's one hell of an obscure cameo/returning character! I think there was s similar case with one of Char's political supporters from CCA appearing as younger version of himself in 0083 among Haman's supporters in Axis.
Even more questionable, but despite the lack of a direct connection to it, the Gran Xandria from AoZ Reboot fits a similar role and is a similar gaudy design that seems inspired by other Zeon red capital ships. Supposedly its based on the Chivvay, or more specially the Tivvay from 0080, which I recall that Mark pointed out that it had to be much larger than the official specs indicated given that Gelgoog Jagers fit both horizontally and vertically inside its two launching bays with their wide shoulder armors, which wouldn't be realistically possible if it was the size of a regular Chivvay.
And forgive my insistence, but if you need further evidence that all Gwazines have been retconned to the 440m size, in MS Igloo the Great Degwin is briefly shown as one of the large models with 12 propellant tanks. In the very next episode we see that the Delaz Fleet Gwaden, whose fleet retreats as the Jotunheim is launching flares and rescuing surviving friendly forces, is of the same type. Lastly, in the first episode of MS Igloo we see two Gwazines, both of the 12 propellant tanks type, participating, one which might have been the Gwaran (as suggested in the Library of Londenion).
Lastly... hundreds of Magellans? Figures for the battle of Loum range between 12 to 48 Magellans... and in the later case it is indicated that 36 (75%) were lost in that one battle. By the time the Battle of Solomon takes place, 24 Magellans are said to participate, which are reduced to 18 for the final battle. It's also worth noting that one of the most consistent numbers out there is that the entire EF fleet by the last stages of the war consisted on 320 ships, including 128 battleships & cruisers. Out of these 228 were new ships produced by the Vinson plan, which originally aimed at producing 340 ship, but not only missed this figure by roughly a third, most of the ships actually produced were modified Columbus supply ships and small Public assault boats, which raised serious questions about the "success" of the plan. The 24 Magellans previously mentioned could therefore be made from the 12 surviving ships from the start of the war and 12 more produced before the end of the war, which gives us 60 ships.
Now, there's one figure I left out, which is that the EF had 92 Magellans at the start of the war, however, that number would then suggest that 44 Magellans were sunk prior to the Battle of Loum and then 36 more at Loum itself, for a total of 80 out of 92 Magellans sunk during the first couple of weeks of the war, and which only got replenished by 12 by the end of the war. Ironically this means that during most of the war, the number of Magellans around was actually comparable to the total number of Gwazines built and also around during most of the war, with this gap only briefly increasing by the end of the war. So, maybe you could say that little over a 100 Magellans were produced, but most were destroyed in the early battles, after which their numbers were barely 2 or 3 times larger than the number of Gwazines around.
- Meaningless War is actually a fan made story. I know it's seems very "professional" but despite all the mechs files it remains a fanfiction.
- I agree for the one from Moon Crisis but I decided not to enter fully the entire Moon Crisis stuff (else why I barely mentioned the Vectra despite it being one my favorite ships, instead of covering it fully). If I covered Moon Crisis extensively I would also have required to do the same for Origin with its Great Degwin (the only Gwazine of this continuity as it is a standalone ship instead of limited production).
- i also support your calculations. Origin clearly states the Feds initially had 15 Magellans in the Tianem Fleet , and 15X3= 45 in the Revil Fleet so 60 for the battle of Loum (wouldn't be too far from mainline UC numbers) . Considering most of these got mauled, I would say it would be safe to assume they were able to double these numbers for operation Cembello and Star one. So I think around 120-200 at max is plausible.
- as for the retcon of the 298m, most Japanese sources stands with this original size. Yes Igloo perhaps attempted to retcon it, but the Japanese still keep the original number, similarly to the original 100×100 size of the Gaw, which Igloo (and some other later sources) attempted to resize at 62×52m
@@gundamfacts -I remembered seeing Meaningless War at Mahq, but was confused as to why I could no longer find it there, guess it must have been removed for its fanfic origin. Pity as some of its ideas, such as a Dreissen derived Dom III (AoZ Reboot) did came to happen in more official capacity later on.
-Could you do a video on Moon Crisis? The few details that have come up make it sound quite interestingly, at least on the mechanical side of things.
-I do can agree that the EF probably wanted to build another 60 or more Magellans after the losses they suffered during the early battles throughout he Vinson Plan, but given the outcome of it, I doubt they actually managed to do so. As already mentioned, the plan aimed to build 340 new warships for the space offensive, but only 228 were ultimately built, out of which only 128 were battleships (Magellans) and cruisers (Salamis), with the MSV 3 book claiming that the rest were modified Columbus class and Public class ships, questioning the success of the plan. Out of the 128 proper warships, I think it's safe to assume that the majority of them were Salamis class. In fact, if we assume that the from the 24 ships that participated in the final battles, 12 were the surviving ships from the early battles and 12 were new ones, that means that roughly 10% of the 128 ships were Magellans. This is a lower % compared to early in the war, but if the Vinson Plan was already struggling to meet its goals, it makes sense that they focused on producing a larger number of Salamis, Columbus and Public ships instead.
-Unfortunately there do are some weird figures floating around, some which don't make much sense. The Gaw figure for instance needs to account for the fact that a whole Komusai is supposed to be able to fit in the Gaw's rear hangar. 08th MS team also makes it evident that MS fit standing on the rear hangar of a Gaw (during Yuri's Odessa retreat).
At the Mechatalk forums Mark also pointed out that the official length specs for the Rewloola and Musaka made some of their MS related features (doors & catapults) too small. IIRC, there was also some issues with the depiction fo the Alpha Azieru being towed by the Rewloola which also suggested that the ship had to be bigger, and in UC we see the Neo Zeong being assembled inside the ship.
In the case of the Gwazine, in a twist of irony I think the larger 440m makes more sense for a ship with over a dozen MPC cannons, while the smaller 298m size makes sense for a ship with just 3 MPC turrets and ballistic AA defenses instead of secondary MPC turrets. But more importantly, I like to consider the Zanzibar Kai from MSV-R essentially a "Gwazine upgrade kit" for the Zanzibar class, adding additional MS carrying capacities (plus a proper catapult), propellant tanks and pushing the ship closer to the 400m, capital warship territory.
Which takes me back to the Tivvay, which in the MSV-R manga is shown in a simulation as a replacement for a Gwazine in a 7 ship fleet formation. My take on 0080 ships is that they were intended as low cost ships to shore up Zeon's navy size to close the gap between them and the EF fleet, which is the explanation given for the Musai Final Production Type. The Tivvay would then be a low cost replacement for a Gwazine flagship, focusing on MS carry capacity and likely also speed given the size of its engines, a trait that The Origin version also decided to focus on. Sadly, like the Musai FPT, its firepower seems to be below average as its only confirmed weapons are the a couple of triple-barreled MPC turrets, that may be of the same size as a regular Chivvay's (in the original design these are rather huge turrets, almost 20% the size of the ship each), but weren't scaled up for the Tivvay (nor better placed, the rear one can't even aim directly behind it due to the larger engine block). The MSV-R manga does give it some missile launching capabilities, but it's unclear where these are placed.
Anyway, that's why I think that the Gran Xandria (partially based on the Tivvay) can be considered a very distant relative of the Gwazine.
But all of that being said, I realize that there are bigger "size issues" to be concerned with, such as The Origin's and Thunderbolt's gigantic iterations of the already huge & costly Dolos class. I don't even know how the one in Thunderbolt ended up in the ocean: did it descend to Earth from space or was it built on Earth? Either theory comes with even more questions, like how they managed to get something that large to Earth when they couldn't get Gwazines to reenter the atmosphere, or where they could have built it on Earth given its size and the resources needed.
Lastly, I know I already asked for a video on Moon Crisis, but could you also consider doing one on Twilight Axis, as in the novel/manga version, not the awful ONA/film version, which sadly is the one most people are largely familiar with.
My favorite Battleship after Rewoola Class
Rewoola is a superb design
@@gundamfacts i agree with you
I actually liked the alava zeru. I do think its back story is over complicated and should have just been an abandoned mobile armor. Maybe if they wanted it connected to char, maybe say it was related to the nightingale. It's not like which continuity it was in mattered.
SIEG ZEON!!!!!!! GLORY TO ZEON!
SIEG ZEON!!!
o7
Foolish Zeke!!!
If Rewloola was Star Destroyer
I'm bet it would be related to Bellator class fast Dreadnought
Gwasha looks godlike
Isn't there's another Rewloola appeared in manga UC0099 Moon Crisis?
It's actually the same from CCA. As I stated in the video, Moon Crisis is AUC since it doesn't take into account the events of Unicorn (it was made prior to the UC novel). It was an original idea for a conclusion to the first Universal Century, which later was taken over by Unicorn
@gundamfacts how does Moon Crisis take Hathaway's Flash into account then? Being that Moon Crisis is UC 0099 (albeit AUC) and Hathaway's Flash being in UC 0105 (original novel version also being AUC).
@stephenemery8831 Depends, the novel was originally a sequel to Beltochika'a children. So if Moon Crisis is a sqqu3k to actual CCA if couldn't account for the BC timeline at all.
Out of curiosity. How many UC shows, OVAs, and movies has this ship appeared in?
Hey maybe you could make a video on some M.p. type gundam mp ZZ mp nu gundam mp hyaku shiki silver bullet
35:30 ARGAMA MENTIONED YAYYYYYYYYYYYY🎉🎉🎉🎉
If I had to have a ship from uc, then its probably gonna have to be a gwazine class or derivative, the musai is just bad, and the federation ships have unreliable armor plating in key areas
Gwanban is surely my love
Why are captions disabled? as someone who is hard of hearing and was very excited to watch the video this is very sad :(
I'm very sorry. I tried to upload the subtitles yesterday but the TH-cam editor was busted beyond repair so I couldn't modify the speech to text automatic subtitles, and after I erased them by mistakes, I didn't found any way to put them back
@@gundamfacts I understand, thanks for trying!
@@steenk.2291 the next video will have accurate CCs dont worry
First like. First comment!
115th like 👍