What LCD monitors are good for Retro PC Gaming?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 เม.ย. 2024
- As awesome as CRT monitors are for Retro PC Gaming, they are expensive, rare and can fail because of age. I am showing you what to look out for when choosing a LCD monitor!
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I am happy, I lucked out on 2 screens for my retro setup. A nice old 19" Viewsonic CRT and a 19" Lenovo LCD. Both working perfectly for my Guetto Pentium3-4 era PC cases running Socket7 computers... that were a HUGE pain to build and an amazing reminder of the painful pleasures we had back then with bios flashing, fdisking, 2 partitions, format and reinstalling windows 98 for installing the wrong usb card drivers... But now I am happy to have a K6-2 400 on a TX430 chipset running at 66Mhz bus with a PCI voodoo3 and a K6-2 450 @ 100Mhz on a via chipset and agp ATI card. Was lots of fun and took lots of video... but editing is so much work and when one starts to make videos, we judge ourselves harshly... making quality videos is a ton of work.
I love your channel and your awesome work! Cheers.
In all my time when choosing monitors, I never considered the speed difference between TN vs. IPS.
I just assumed "IPS is better" and never looked back. Thank you for pointing out this important caveat.
Modern IPS monitors are better than TN. It's only the old IPS monitors that had issues with higher refresh rates. Modern TN monitors exist pretty much only as an ultra budget option.
Panel monitors are an area where you really benefit from buying newer. Back when IPS was a no-go you still had tons of issues with TN panels like them tending to be 6-bit color and having serious ghosting. I guess the idea is to find models with native VGA, but, personally, I'd look at display first and figure out how to VGA or DVI-I second. Even if there is lag involved with a conversion you'll probably still end up ahead compared to using an ancient panel.
@@electricindigoball1244 Even better. Whatever the solution people choose, I just hope it doesn't involve 10-15 year old budget office panels that are noticeably smeary even when watching TH-cam.
This is a reply to the second comment. It seems I can't include the "at" part in my comment. You can get modern IPS monitors with VGA inputs. My monitor (Iiyama ProLite XUB2595WSU) has a VGA input and it's a 1920x1200 display meaning that it can natively (without any scaling) display a game running at 1600x1200 (I tested it and there's no loss in quality when switching between 1920x1200 and 1600x1200).
TN has viewing angle issues, and looks washed. For me it was never an option, and never really saw ghosting. If reaction time was under 20ms, most people would not notice. It was common for LCD reviews at tat time to check reaction time, most IPS monitor were ok, and some better than others. You can’t go wrong with most Dell Ultrasharp monitors
One thing to note: if you get ghosting when using a VGA cable on a CRT monitor try a higher quality cable. I can't count how many times ghosting was caused by a really low quality VGA cable and solved by simply using a high quality (typically thicker) cable.
Good call, absolutely right. 👏🏻
Indeed, i've encountered this problem too, and choosing a new VGA cable really got me a good picture without ghosting. I recommend to spend a few bucks more, for a new cable instead of a used one. But also, YMMV so best be sure to try some different cables and take the best one which suits you.
Vga cables can also be prone to interference. If you're seeing ghosting, check there aren't any other cables nearby that might be affecting it
If you're converting to Digital, it would be beneficial to get the shortest and stoutest VGA cable you can, and then run the distance with the digital connector because it's lossless.
Startech sells really good all-conductor VGA cables up to 100ft, although you need to use as short as possible cord for the best quality. the best part is that the cables have ALL of the pins connected to the cable so you're unlikely to run into any degradation, many thinner and cheaper VGA cables combine all the ground pins even though you're not supposed to do that.
Not possible in many CRT monitor as they are hard wired to the monitor itself.
Great video as always. Please, Phil, never stop making videos. We miss them dearly when they're absent.
Thank you!
Most CRT monitors are pretty solid, it's not really the tube that fails but the other components supporting it - like the Capacitors and a few other things. I've repaired a few dead CRT's but this is an area of specialist knowledge and there aren't enough people around who can do it let alone provide a service doing it. I would encourage everyone interested in them to learn a bit about electronics and do some serious research on CRT repair. It's up to people like us now to stop this technology from completely disappearing.
Without any knowlege, everyone can have a look for deformed capacitor and swap these. That fixes the issue in about 30-50% of cases and costs close to nothing
I can agree, owning the only CRT repair business in West Canada! And the CRTs aren’t even a commodoty one can find on a backalley by the garbage anymore, market is simply dry :(
The problem is that for CRTs such as iMac G3s is that the flybacks are starting to degrade. Without quality spares alternatives are needed to either have parts or swap in an LCD and modify the analog board
@@psxtuneservice Yes caps are easy but you have to be very careful dismantling CRT's as they can hold A LOT of voltage in the tube and flybacks. You can get zapped pretty bad if you don't discharge them properly first.
Nec multisync lcd monitors are well worth checking out. Most are 4:3 and some support features that will be find elsewhere, such as sync on green (required for older unix machines), 15khz (old consoles and amiga) among other things with decent picture quality and refresh rates.
OMG Phil, that LCD to CRT measurement was so bad...... a 15 INCH CRT will have viewable area of 13.5 or thereabout. A 17 inch will be about 15 and so on and so on
There's only 3 options really: hunt for old Dell office monitors (Ultrasharp especially with good response times),the recent LG square monitor for correct aspect ratio or a OLED for amazing colors and instant response/no ghosting.
I agree. I'm rocking a Dell UltraSharp 2007FP for my retro rig and it's the next best thing compared to CRT imo.
my ultrasharp 2001fp is a nightmare, the only upside of it is that it has a 1600x1200 resolution. but then the response time is 16 ms extra on top of the already 16 ms response time that comes with 60 hz, and since the backlight doesnt strobe you get annoying motion blur, and resolutions such as 800x600 and 320x200 are too crisp and pixelated and simply dont have the softness that crts do.
Great content as always.
Happy Philday!
Happy Birthday Phil !
Thanks a lot for your videos!
Who doesn't love our Uncle Phil - love these videos!
One I highly recommend is the 2004 Apple Cinema 20" (A1081) which can be found in my part of Europe for €20.
Originally a $1300 monitor and from the beginning of Apple's switch to all aluminium construction.
I have it matched up to an Nvidia 6600 GT for an XP and Win98SE install and it's been flawless since my CRT suffered vertical collapse.
- Maximum resolution of 1680x1050
- DVI-D input
- Matte screen
- FireWire
- 100 PPI
- 2x Firewire 400 ports
- 2x USB 2.0 ports
- Brightness and power control on the side
I love the thing, it has a real modern retro aesthetic and the matte screen just feels right with Win98 or Win2K from my memories of our computer labs back then.
It weighs 6.5Kg, but feels much heavier due to the all aluminium frame.
I would strongly suggest integer scaling and CRT filters on a modern fixed pixel display to emulate the old school CRT look if you don't have a retro PC/monitor setup.
Definitely. Phil showed this off in a previous video, it looks really great.
The defining characteristic of a CRT monitor is fast pixel response time. The only modern monitor capable of mimicking a CRT is a 120Hz+ OLED. So that's what you have to use, plus NOT integer scaling, because CRTs, being analog, lack pixel clarity, so run them in anything but native resolution. CRTs also have massive per-pixel afterglow, again, an OLED is the only device capable to emulate it, but not sure why you'd want to because that's a negative.
Great video!
Happy Friday Phil!
Thank you!
Brunch with Phil's!
I have some old Dell 4:3 LCD monitors. I snatch them up whenever I find them. You can usually get them for like $5 at thrift shops. Nobody wants them yet, so they're dirt cheap.
Same here, over the last 4 or 5 years, whenever I come across anything that might be useful for a good price (less than £5) I’ll grab it and stash it away.
Got more than I need now, should probably sort through them and do a bit of testing.
CRT technology is still on a lot of peoples wishlists. Trust someone to start a production company in the near future. Let's just hope the lucrative opportunity of day-light robbery pricing doesn't triumph.
Honnestly, I'd buy an HD 4k 120Hz CRT TV if it was avaliable as an affordable alternative.
There's a lot of stuff that doesn't appeal to the masses, but that doesn't mean there's no market for it. Looking at enthusiast audiophile equipment for example.
4:3, 5:3, 16:9, there would be a market.
Just a matter of time untill someone realizes CRT is not obsolete technology. The choice of LCD vs CRT monitors should be likened to Gas vs Induction stoves, Teflon vs Cast Iron pans and pots, or Deepfryer vs Air Fryer.
Come on, give the CRT the love it deserves!
There's a reason why CRT technology died.
It'll never happen, no one wants to manufacture them at the high costs and specialised manufacturing for a niche market that'll never make returns. They use a ton of chemicals in the process too. The best we can get is oled or micro LED with crt filters and some of the filters are getting not bad.
@@andy23rYeah, it is cheaper to produce flat panels in general, so bigger profit margins. There is still demand for CRT, and there was huge at the begging of the end, where plasma, lcd, etc where so much worse than CRT. But this is not about making what people wants, it is about getting more profits, even if you leave huge sectors of a market unsupplied. Other examples? Ultra thin laptops that are useless because they don't have enough ports, they overheat and have glued batteries, but if you like more professional laptops you are now stuck into the "retro" market, as there are no alternatives. Music stations where 99.9999% is commercial pop top ten lists and so generic you wouldn't know if you accidentally changed the station, and where there is 0 options if you like any other kind of music.
There will be a market for CRT's. Period. 😊
@@simplyhard you're kinda delusional. but ok whatever
Happy PhilDay all.
My favorite LCD for vintage computing is the HP W2007. It will display a 4:3 ratio resolution without stretching, and it has VGA and DVI inputs. It even has built-in speakers!
I have almost the exact same monitor, the HP W2207 connected to my old Windows 7 gaming PC.
I love the 16 x 10 aspect ratio, and its 4 x 3 modes. It's also very receptive to creating custom resolutions in the NVIDIA Control Panel. The stand with all its adjustment is also quite impressive. Great monitor for its time.
I also own one of these. It is okay and it has a glossy finish, which helps to gain color richness. But it is limited to 60 Hz. A more modern good choice is also a BenQ XL 2410t. Sadly it is not 16:10 anymore, but it has 120 Hz and Black Frame insertion. The downside is, it is a matte TN Panel and because of this it looks a bit washed out. But the combination of 120 Hz and Black Frame Insertion was a big deal on playing Quake 3 on a LCD. It was the first time it felt kinda fluid again. Not nearly as good as a CRT, but the best thing I could get back then (~2010 I guess)
Cool info, thanks for going through all the variations! I have aquired quite a few crts over the years as part of other hauls (hopefully at least one will outlive me 😁) and nice as they are I always end up using my asus 4:3 gaming monitor for most things as its just too convenient and still looks nice. Though it will always be special to get a crt out every now and then for a gaming session. I was lucky enough to find a 4:3 lcd gaming monitor but like you say at the time 19" was standard and 5:4 many people probabaly weren't nostalgic enough to care about dos games showing correctly yet. I usually dont go widescreen as it just doesn't feel right, though it would save a lot of shelf space.
Excellent as always. Was very excited to see the Samsung S24C450 you have. I have one right next to me now. I've been keeping it handy because it supports all the things (VGA, DVI, DP and it's easy to get HDMI -> DP/DVI) and does a really good job of scaling automatically for any resolution I've thrown at it.
I believe Arcooda will soon release a 4:3 panel with stand. They have been doing 4:3 panels for arcades with retro in mind. Based in Oz too.
It's all about the scaling options. If they are retro minded, hopefully it comes with integer scaling in such options...
@@philscomputerlab tough one. They do 1600x1200 monitors, but I think you need an external scaler. Otherwise must monitors stretch out the image. For 1200p you'd need x5 scaling, which is $$ like the retrotink 5x or I think the ossc pro. I wouldn't depend on a monitor's internal scaler. They're usually poor. The MiSTer can do all sorts of resolutions. It's a while since I've played around with the dos core on it. It's not super accurate, and a little under powered (just makes it into 486 era), but scales beautifully.
@@peterk1837 That's disappointing, but I guess they have reasons. With modern devices, scaling can be done on the device, for example all the modern graphics cards can do integer scaling of low resolution games...
@@philscomputerlab I think it's costs. Good scalers seem to use fpga these days and have very sophisticated software. But are also trying to appeal to all consoles etc, so probably overkill for our simple dos tastes.
Thanks for raising this topic again with the dedicated episode. Like you said with the raising community of retro pc gamers we might get some more attention from the "scalers business" at the affordable price levels. Let's keep our fingers for it :)
@PhilsComputerLab
I have been using a Westinghouse 32" 1366x768 TV with a VGA in for my Retro PC & gaming needs. It's been great and it provides a very large viewing area for games and it does proper scaling for games running at 1024x768, they are in proper aspect ratio. Same with Retro game consoles like the NES, SNES and such but through composite. Most TV's with a VGA input will likely work very well for a replacement for CRT's. I haven't used a CRT in over a decade for this reason.
Trying to get my Dell CRT repaired. It's an UltraScan1000HS Model D1025HTX. First manufactured January 1998. Awesome video Phil.
Excellent video, choosing a retro monitor is complicated and there is no perfect option. I have tried crts, 5:4, 16;10 and even a 1600x1200 eizo. My best option is a 20" crt for high hz and an asus proart 16:10. The asus is my best option for most cases, waiting for a 16:10 oled 120Hz monitor with vga, it is probably a utopia. I have learned a lot with your videos and it is always a joy to see a new one. Greetings from Spain.
Oled with VGA is probably not gonna happen but I think the retrotink4k + oled display is gonna be a winning combo for scaling arbitrary video signals to something a 4k oled likes.
Yeah a 120hz 16:10 Asus OLED monitor with VGA will never happen. The smallest OLED monitor you have is 27 inches and its 16:9 and HDMI or Displayport only
I use DELL U2410, Awesome input in this LCD PANEL !!!
i did find some '15 HP LCD with built in speakers from the thrift store and it works nicely for retro PCs and the speakers don't sound too bad
I must say the only non CRT display that hasn't disappointed me in consuming retro content and games is my 4k OLED TV. The response time, picture quality and scaling at that resolution make the difference negligible, and with a few filters it's near perfect...
As someone who still owns three 19" CRT monitors, a warning:
They're bloody MASSIVE!
You can give yourself a hernia if you're not careful shifting them about.
I had 21 or 22 inch trinitron flat screen (the ones Dell rebranded) and it weighed as much as the sun.
I have four 21" Trinitron TVs, one 25" TV and four CRT monitors of various sizes and brands. I find that the best way to handle them is to sort of hug the screen against your belly, because they are always much heavier in the front, where the tube is. 🤣
@@kosmosyche Right enough - so speaks experience - easily the best way.
In addition, looking at the screen from the front - d'uh! - it's easy to miss how far back they go.
Back in the days we did carry them to LAN Parties (I even did that with a 21" CRT). Along with PCs in Chieftec CS-601 Cases. And we slept beneath the Tables. We weren't heroes, we didn't have a choice. But it was great fun.
@@wabbit234 Had a Sun GDM-20E20 Trinitron, can confirm it weighed as much as the sun. Landed up recycling it because despite the CRT gaming hype, nobody wanted it.
This is a good summary of a complex topic that is a bit overwhelming to be honest (not as overwhelming as ISA sound cards though), so a really helpful video.
Your old threads on vogons were helpful to me when it came time to get a new monitor. I had a 20” 4:3 Philips LCD that did the job nicely until it stopped working. Then I got a Dell 2423 which is 16:10 1920x1200 with vga, dvi, DisplayPort and hdmi and will force a 4:3 or 5:4 aspect ratio. Really a great all rounder for me. I recently acquired a 17” Phillips CRT for the staggering price of $3NZ! I was shocked I got it for so low.
The conclusion I’ve reached is CRT monitor for 1024x768 and lower resolutions (so DOS and early windows gaming, particularly my voodoo 3) and 16:10 LCD for hi-res windows 98, and windows XP gaming (and for me, also my modern computing, I don’t do modern gaming).
Yea that's a good conclusion actually!
Nice video
Great video Phil. Personally, I still have my original Sony MultiScan 15"sf1 CRT. But I want to take my DOS gaming to larger screens. I plan to go with 1600 x 1200 UXGA 19" LCD to keep 4:3 aspect ratio. Ah! The glory days of retro gaming. Next up is Might & Magic for DOS. And original Alone in the Dark series.
Belated happy b-day, Phil! In terms of scalers, the Retrotink4K added a lot of stuff to also focus on retro PC as well. Plus, the thing gets constant updates.
Yup it's an awesome device, I did a review recently 😊
So I read the forum post about SBEmu and apparently someone had it work on the asus eeepc netbook. The atom is about on par with Pentium 3, the video you made on SBEmu brought awareness that something like that existed. Good stuff.
Awesome!
I have 3 CRT's (one 21" and two 17") in my collection and a couple of LCD's for my retro systems :). I recently bougt a quality (made in Japan) LCD for a low price and little usage, a white Eizo FlexScan S2201W, it has good colors, lots of settings and good wieving angles also :).
I'm using AOC G2590FX 1080p 144Hz + FreeSync for modern and retro PC. Monitor have Displayport, 2x HDMI and VGA. TN panel with LED backlight, so like for TN have really good colors. Monitor support to set 4x3, 5x4 aspect ratio or 1:1, so it's a good compromise. Also getting high refresh rate on Win98 on 1024x768 100 hz with Voodoo 3, 85 hz on WinXP with GTX 470 on 1920x1080 and 1440x1080.
Great video but... the idea that CRT monitors are dying made me feel old.
Modern 4K monitors (preferably with HDR 600 support) are able to emulate a crt / pvm aperture grille with astonishing results. Since I started using CRT emulation, I no longer use my real CRT.
you have a good example? Model nr.
@@OpticalHaze Any 4K monitor will do the job just fine, in fact even 1440p monitors can emulate CRT phosphor mask with very convincing results. HDR capable monitor (at least HDR 600) is only needed if you want to emulate CRT mask perfectly (at 100% opacity). All modern HDR-supporting OLED monitors are capable of displaying HDR 600, so it's more a question of which brand to buy rather than which model to buy. If money is not a problem for you I recommend MSI MPG 321URX QD-OLED, because it has HDR 1000 (CRT mask will look even better), superb sRGB emulation, and thanks to 240Hz refreshrate you dont even need BFI to get very good motion quality.
PabloB888
Any microLED modern monitor that supports HDR is better as all CRT monitors.
My old Philips, HDR 1000 was already better, and that was just LCD and Quantum colors backlight zones.
@@OpticalHaze Odyssey 43 by Samsung i use now.
@@lucasrem I have never seen an LCD that could match CRT in terms of color, contrast, viewing angles and especially motion quality.
I think you meant Mini LED LCDs, as current LCDs are built with this backlight technology. Micro LED offers pixel-level light control (like OLED), but this technology is not yet available.
I still use my CRT monitor and it's great!! It is an LG Flatron EZT730 1280*1024 at 85Hz .
LOL ARE YOU POOR?
I live in argentina . Thats all i can say.
NEC EA193Mi, a 19" 5:4 IPS from 2015, has both DVI and VGA.
I have yet to try mine though since years.
Hey nice video Phil :)
yea I'm a Compaq S710 Blackshade CRT user myself it was a gift from a friend which I got way back in 2014 I believer or somewhere around there, on the back it reads that it was made in December of year 2000, so it is now well over 23 years old, it still gives a very good image at 1024x768x32 @ 85Hz, it's horizontal dot pitch s 0.22.5 this gives a super sharp image output, it's beautiful with Dos games especially,17" is a very nice format and probably my favorite alongside 15".
When in use I also use the Degaus function from time to time, to release the remnant magnetic field.
As maintenance goes I would love to do that not sure if anyone here in The Netherlands that is capable of that, my friend Victor Bart may know someone, but then again it works fine and so far I don't see any issues even so some issues can't be seen either, so at times I do want to give it a good maintenance run, just dunno by who.
Incredibly interesting topic Phil! Thanks. How about OLED in the future?
i have a dell 20 inch 5/4 monitor around the age of your Asus circa 2013-14 , bought it for $24 shipping included from goodwill in charlotte NC its a professional 1280x1024 it has amazing picture quality and for some reason a 20 inch 5/4 looks very large compared to 22 or 23 inch hd monitors when playing games , im using a athlon II x4 with a hd 5770 and windows xp , been testing older windows games from mid 90s they look excellent , also tested dirt 3 on the same system and even at 1280x1024 it looks stunning for that resolution , i hit jackpot on this particular monitor
It's even getting more difficult to find a new 1366 × 768 monitor now. Most are classified as "portable".
That’s why when I had the opportunity to buy 5 NOS CRT's a couple of years back I snapped them up.
they will all need some TLC at one point... nothing lasts forever.
In US you can find loads of them in Goodwill for $5. I got a bunch and even a $5 Belkin VGA switch someone tossed in there.
It’s a very relevant topic. Thank you for covering it. I would wish to see more deep dive and hands on content on this. For example how to get high refresh rates going under windows 98. I have a BenQ 2411xl and 7900gs, 6800gt, x850, 4200ti etc And it’s just problems over problems. Either drivers, cables or games don’t support wide screen full hd or higher refresh rates. Under xp there seem to be less problems but I only want my good old 98 and play ut99, cs 1.5 and gta3.
For a Windows 98 retro gaming PC, at least for the games I'm interested in, I believe the sweet spot is 1024x768, a dream resolution back in those days, where running games at maximum details in that resolution was my dream, but it was difficult at that time with my PC. For MS-DOS/W95, starting from the era of Duke Nukem 3D, I think 640x480 and 800x600 are sufficient. For XP, it could be 1600x1200, and with Windows 7, I would use 16:9 or 16:10 resolutions, whichever the monitor supports.
Most of my old LCD monitors are dead or in the process of dying... meanwhile my CRT Monitors are not even flinching.
LCD monitors seem to suffer from bad caps more than CRTs in the same given period. Especially LCD monitors older than 2010.
I use an LG C2 42" 4K OLED TV. It has rather small Pixels and looks really good when you combine it with Filters (e.g. DosBox Staging). It is not cheap, but a good and big CRT is even more expensive. The real Downside is that you will burn out the Pixels in the 4:3 Area faster if you use it for old games. But yeah, I guess those OLEDs will become cheaper and if we get Black Frame Insertion on higher Refresh Rates, it will come really close to an good old CRT.
I was just talking with my significant other about this the other day talk about timing! I luckily just scooped two dell 4:3 displays that are only a few years old and does great for dos and win9x
Yea it's a familiar situation, at the moment they are still easy to find, but in 10 years? All ports will be digital I guess...
@@philscomputerlab Im hoping a company soon will come out with something that fills the gap, until then sometimes im using a VGA to Component adapter to go to my CRT television. and my win9x system is on the aforementioned Dell
the 5200fx was such a piece of crap but its what I had to play doom 3 and half life 2 back in the day 😆 despite being 128mb it still wouldnt play oblivion and I had to upgrade. I dont even remember what I replaced it with but upgrading it with my dad is still one of the best memories I have with him. Good card for older games though of course 👍
Thanks...
My suggestions would be Dell 1908 FP (TN+75Hz) and Dell 2007FP (IPS). Or just just get any 16:10 you can find, they have a 4:3 and 5:4 mode.
I should go through the unused LCD monitors I have to see what their capabilities are, and sell off the retro-friendly ones to retro gamers.
You can do some weird stuff that may suit. You can use an adapter from vga to rca/s-video on a regular Crt tv, or, if you are a little more crazy can adapt the graphics card to output a component or rgb signal wich will involve certain cables and drivers to do it.
Dell Ultrasharp Monitors with multiple analog inputs (composite, component, vga, s-video) are great.
I picked up a lot of 2007FPB 20" Dell 4:3 lcd's a few years back at an auction. They're 1600x1200 60hz displays that render extremely well for older stuff over VGA or DVI. They're 16ms response on the spec sheet, but I haven't had any issues with ghosting/blurs or lag enough to annoy me, and I play arcade fighting games on them. (And modern PC where I'm basically always using a 1ms panel, frame perfect input wasn't as important back in the day... or today as the years go on and that proves to be too difficult for the masses/consoles to keep up with FPS wise to even make 1 frame inputs viable).
Back when I used an analog monitor with my PCs I would use a txt file with a bunch of 1's and that would give it enough grip on the image to focus.
One thing that annoys me with LCDs is that in old DOS demos which switch resolutions in the middle of the demo, the screen will blank for a few seconds. This is not the case on a CRT, the resolution switch is instant and thus the demo flows a lot better. But they take up so much space! :(
I really like my LG Flatron L1730B (5:3) for my win98SE, only downside is that it is only 17 inch so i just bought a LG L1952TQ that is coming in the mail very soon! 👍
For me, the best monitor was Samsung 940MW. The image was great, and the color looks like similar to CRT (IMHO). I repaired it twice, but it failed a third and last time.
The whole Hz issue was about eye strain. 60Hz on an LCD is just fine. For a CRT you would want 85 for longer sessions as they actually flicker. LCDs do not.
lol I have 7 crt monitors in my loft, 4x 15” and 3 x 17”
Get yourself the Dell 2007fpb, the best retro lcd monitor, displays 1600x1200 and has a refresh rate up to 75hz
Dos gaming is a visual experience. Unfortunately with current technology no matter what shaders were applied to the IPS panel there are still glaring differences between CRTs and Modern LCD monitors.
I would recommend the FlexScan S2133... IF you can find it on a discount....
It's one of the few new 4:3 monitors with the native resultion of 1600x1200.
I still have two 19" CRT Flatrons at work they wanted to dispose of but which I keep in storage. But my retro monitors are a Hannspree Hanns.G 19" LCD Monitor and a BenQ 19" (BenQ FP93G X+)
Any french LCD with peritel input is great for retro gaming. Got 2 in my office, one for the Amiga 500 and the other one for the Commodore 128
I reckon the only reason I'd ever use a modern display on a retro system would be for a test bench. Like having a bracket mounted display near where you build which has both digital and analog inputs would be great. However, if I intend on actually playing through any games, I will always want the most period accurate gear possible.
In my collection i have two LCD panels from early 2000 and 90's that started to rot(mostly are native 1024x768) so not even LCDs are safe.
My solution was use my benq xl2027z, the scaler on it is pretty flexible if you dont mind Black Bars, also being able to do 144hz is really nice
I was building a new PC for a friend this week. It was an 12th gen Intel build without dedidated GPU. Motherboard had 2x Display port, one HDMI and one VGA. I just had to connect it to my CRT display.
While it worked. Intel drivers had limited support for refresh rate and resolution, but I was still able to get 1600x1200 at 85 Hz.
Image quality wasn't great and image was too dark. Perhaps too low voltage on VGA port, but at least it worked. Older PCs have much better image quality over D-SUB VGA connector.
Anyway I was still impressed how modern games looked. Since I was using integrated GPU I was limited to 1024x768 with 30-ish FPS.
However this felt like 4K 60 FPS. CRT can do wonderful things with image adding slight blur but retaining details. Also 30 FPS felt so responsive. CRTs have 0 ms input lag. Graphics card is directly controlling electron beam. No image pre-processing or slow pixel response time.
While modern LCDs can deliver much brighter image that is super sharp in static scenes, while OLEDs have perfects blacks and outstanding contrast, CRTs still win in perfect motion handling.
Running testUFO on CRT is something truly outstanding.
I won't use CRT display every day. They're not great for the eyes, but while display technology did many steps forward, it also did few steps back.
I hated crt for their flicker back in the day. And when you increased the res.. the refresh would drop... I still like the squarish lcd better despite the other benefits crt are crappy for the eyes
I was able to get a fairly compatible 19 inch 4:3 LCD mostly to take up less space for testing. The downside is that it uses a 1440 x 1080 resolution, which results in some soft images from non-multiple scaling, but the lower the resolution it's upscaling the less noticeable it becomes. A 1920 x 1200 monitor is a solid idea, since aside letterboxed 1600 x 1200 you also get perfect multiples for 800 x 600. Sadly there is an absolute glut of those 1280 x 1024 monitors, since they dominated office spaces and schools for quite some years. Still usable, but unlike other options I find they just don't do anything particularly well.
I used to have a Gateway Vivitron 1776, very good monitor, it was still working when i got rid of it, and at times i really wish i'd kept it. I do still have the Philips 170B5 i'd replaced it with, and still use it for my K6-III Retro PC. Maybe not as good, i'm not sure but it's always been a very reliable monitor. Maybe that's another good suggestion for a retro monitor. Surprised about the Aspect ratio though at the resolution you mentioned.
I still have a 14inch CRT. It apparently has weak blue, since windows 98se default background is green (when it should be a greanish/Blue). I didn't notice this when I was heavily using the monitor but I didn't have a more color accurate display like I do now. I also have a high end CRT 22inches that needs capacitors replace but don't want to take the time to replace 40 capacitors and no one in the area fixes them. The monitor is 80 pounds and from 2000.
I have a 19" 1600x1200 CRT for my period correct retro PCs and a 20" IPS Dell LCD screen for my "Ultimate" Win98 and WinXP PCs that are capable of the 1600x1200 resolution (or 800x600 in the case of many Win98 games).
I have an Iiyama Prolite E485S 19” LCD Panel in beige. I’m not sure about the year of manufacture but it’s 4:3 aspect ratio. It has VGA and DVI but I only use VGA. It’s a perfect compromise for DOS gaming. Not perfect but close. I’d like a CRT but I’m not paying EBAY prices and locally they are as rare as rocking horse poo!
CRT's like many things...if you grabbed them when no-one could give them away years ago...i have a few left i had too many at one point...and had to get rid of a couple myself because i ran out of storage...i've some TH-cam retro channels with CRT's stacked high...and old desktop PC's too...nice if you have a warehouse sized extension on your house to store a lifetime of junk...i have a shared lockup...very damp at times...i wouldn't bet on my CRT's working for very long
I had a 1366x768 laptop in college and played so many classic games at 1024x768 with my Intel HD 3000 iGPU. :)
The ViewSonic Vx924 is awesome for retro gaming.
The specs sounds great, but I can't find any for sale :/
I have Dell P2723QE 4K 27" IPS 5ms monitor, that have automatic scaling to 5:4, 4:3, and 16:10. I use it for resolutions 1600x1200 and 2560x1600.
For lower resolutions I have Dell 1707FPV 17" 1280x1024, and it works great for 1024x768, 800x600 and lower.
Dell P2723QE 27" 4K monitor does work as DVI monitor, when connected using DVI-D to HDMI cable, so I will not have issue with that. I also have VGA to HDMI converter, for video cards, that doesn't have DVI port.
The good thing about monitors, with high pixel density, that lower resolutions look great, less softening.
+1 I'm not a Dell fan per se. But I do like their(older) monitors A LOT 🙂
@@dallesamllhals9161 I have old Dell from 2007 and new Dell from 2023. Old Dell monitor actually have faster response time to input signal changes, it is useful, for troubleshooting old computers. I will keep that old Dell monitor from 2007, and I will change backlight to LED, because CCFL are going out overtime.
Hi Phil! Thx for this video, but I have two little not important complains, first turn of autofocus or put away your hands, and second, adjust CRT screen sizes, so you will not show black borders around ;-)... Otherwise very informative video and this is most important ;-). I like to watch you and what you do for retro community ;-). Go on! ;-)
BTW perfect monitor is two CRTs, one 15" and one 19" or 21" ;-)
I think people are crazy for paying hundreds on a CRT that could fail at any time. I don't pay anymore than 20 for an old CRT. Here in London you often find fully working older LCD monitors that have been thrown out.
I have a suggestion, try to get a Sony SDM-HS95P 19" TFT. Best monitor i had, still using it as a backup monitor, good contrast and color!
I've been using a 4:3 20" NEC 2070NX as my daily driver until very recently (unfortunately the backlight started to fail after 17 years of daily use). It was pretty good for older games due to the aspect ratio and decent scaling, while the 1600x1200 resolution and IPS screen were still very usable for everyday tasks. And while it is true that it was limited to 60 Hz, there was no visible ghosting or blur while playing games. Subjectively I would say it was comparable to the LG 27ul500 I've replaced it with.
I'm still using my Compaq 17" CRT monitor still looks and works like new, knock on wood.
I have a Samsung and LG 17 inch monitors for my retro machines .
The highest refresh rate CRT I had was a 22" Sony with a max res of 2304 x 1296 @85hz. I loved that monitor. It was so good I kept replaying Oblivion on it. It was so good I bought a Sony Vaio Flat screen CRT for my bedroom and one for my living room. I also had a HUGE 43" that had speakers on each side, the screen was flat but it was a CRT and it had HDMI, Component, VGA, DVI, Video, S- Video and Coaxial Cable input for connectors. It was so heavy it took two people to lift properly. I moved it once myself from the living room to the kids room when we got a newer, larger flat screen and gave myself a hernia.
I remember these huge CRT TVs back in the day! So heavy and bulky, it's weird, it feels like yesterday but a lot of time has passed...
When my CRTs die I'll just move to the best OLED that I can afford with strobing/BFI at 60hz and up, it is the best choice and the closest to a CRT, and of course just deal with how bad low res content will look on a modern hi-def screen, it is what it is, at least filters and shaders can mitigate it somewhat but it's all smoke and mirrors, nothing will come close to the sharpness and clarity of a CRT for low res content, hopefully when my CRTs become unusable, affordable normal sized Micro-LEDs will be a thing too so that could be a good candidate too along with OLED. For now my CRTs and my 480hz TN modern monitor do the trick.
Similar 'boat' here.
No CRTs, but waiting for an affordable OLED, etc.
In 2024 the TN panel has a bad rap, but you're right, the older 4:3 ones are much better for high refresh rate.
I use 19" Samsung SyncMaster 971P PVA, dvi. It's a very good monitor.
I own some very high-end CRT monitors, and obviously those are preferable while they still work.
I do have to mention the LCD monitor that I daily drive though. I went out of my way to find the last/best 3D Vision compatible monitor, the 1440p curved Asus PG27VQ.
But aside from the 3D part, which is anecdotal to many people, this monitor has absolutely fantastic motion options that actually makes it a compelling CRT alternative.
The ULMB (backlight strobing) feature makes it compete with CRT motion clarity (or even beats it at 120hz). It's not like 50% BFI that many LCDs and OLED have, the pulse length can be set so short that you actually get sub-1ms MPRT at 120hz. I managed to hack it to work at 60hz via CRU to great result as well (albeit, with flickering on white backgrounds that cause eyestrain, everty bit as much as CRT@60hz).
Of course, scaling to retro-friendly resolution remains an issue, and the contrast level is piss poor compared to CRT, OLED, PDP, or even LCDs with dimming zones, but LCD has a lot of potential for a do-all-well monitor. I don't see myself ever buying a 768p/1024p/1200p LCD without backlight strobing, I'd rather have CRT-like motion and deal with upscaling softness.
Can't wait for a monitor that will have 4K, ULMB, HDR support, Mini-LEDs with lots of zones. In fact I believe when it comes to "peak brightness VS motion clarity" tradeoff, OLED will never catch up.
I still very much appreciate the two 17 inch Samsung CRT monitors I acquired as part of my retro PC gear. They both have 0.20mm dot pitch and flat front bezels. Both are still in very good condition considering they were made in year 2001 and 2003. I still would like to get a Sony Trinitron though if I can find one in my locality.
@PhilsComputerLab Probably the best retro monitor you can buy new right now is the 21.3-inch Eizo FlexScan S2134, which was released a few months ago in 2023. It has a screen resolution of 1600x1200 (4:3) and is available in light gray and black. The only huge downside is the price: more than 800 EUR at the moment here in Germany. Grüße nach "Down Under"!
I have at least a dozen of the 17" Dell 4:3 flat screens. They just don't die lol.
Unpopular Opinion:
Dont know if this off topic, but While Retro Gaming or Older Games fits on Old Square Monitors here, i think Modern Gaming like todays games are good for old Square Monitors aswell.
Not only about the resolution, but the Performance is increased aswell. Pefectly Good for low end gaming.
I wish more games supporting 1280x1024 resolution support today.
Am curious how old LCD Square Monitor Gaming in 2024 still holds up.
Good point and I did a video on using a 1280x1024 monitor with modern games. You can run 1280x720 and get a pretty nice image.
The old 5:4 LCD monitors from the early 2000s are often not the fastest but they often support resolutions or modes that newer LCDs no longer support. I have a BenQ device, by the way. It's relatively new though, with 1920 x 1080 px and 75 Hz, but it has VGA, DP and HDMI. As far as DVI is concerned, you're right, many resolutions and refresh rates aren't available there. My monitor only shows 60 Hz via DVI.
I have an Acer v196 1280x1024 monitor which claims to have a 75Hz IPS panel. It has been doing pretty great for a long time now. I use DVI for Windows (P3 machine) and VGA for my DOS machine (P200 MMX).