What I hate about these debates is that most people don't even want to know the truth. They just want prove themselves right so they don't have to feel guilty. It's okay to recognise your mistakes and feel guilty. That's how change happens.
Well, vegans don't really like debates, do they? They're pretty much quote mining science, and define that as an absolute truth. Whilst what Z said is true: 1. Science is not perfect, the scientific conclusions keep changing as we learn more about the world. 2. We cannot really know whether all animals are conscious in the same way as we are.
It's irrelevant. When you see how pig reacts in a gas chamber. When a cow tries to escape from a stun box fighting for survival till the very end. They are living, sentient beings, able to feel pain and fear. Human's reasoning for animal abuse is pretty much "they don't speak english".
@@ltschriscrucker it doesn’t take a scientist or intelligent person to see that human toddlers, human teenagers, human adults, pigs, dogs, cats, horses, cows, chickens, lambs, as examples, are conscious, sentient beings. As Joey said, they’re not all on the same level, just as not all human beings are on the same level. But it doesn’t change the very simple fact that all are sentient and conscious.
@@blue-calla you're interchangeably using words like sentence, consciousness, self-awareness etc without really having an idea of what it is, how to define it and how to test it. It's a vague concept that science haven't precisely defined. And for instance, how can you say that toddlers are conscious when we don't remember ourselves before an age of like 2-3 years? Is fetus that has developed a nervous system also conscious, sentient being? Then abortion too should be illegal, right? The self-awareness is sometimes indicated by the so-called mirror test. But guess what, pretty much only greater apes, dolphins and orcas pass it
he says he killed a chicken as a child and saw the way that it suffered and didn't want to eat chicken after that. then he was trying to say that those gas chambered pigs weren't feeling pain. doesn't make sense
it's hard to KNOW that you're wrong -- especially in front of someone who's educated about it. it's a shame he did a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid thinking about your destructive habits
Daniel Bonner you can’t hate someone for being brainwashed we all are in different ways . He actually seems like a cool and intelligent guy unfortunately he was conditioned from an early age to see animals as food for survival.
@@biowired is Joey educated? HHaha he was getting rekt.. should not talk to someone that understand life... Joey should go wannabe gangester again.. with you felles.. Daniel.. and the other once.. im out.. Joey gang, be your own man... sound like a bitch all off you, when you saying, Joey is so educated, he is so good.. read one page, and you level with him, hopefully
@@MaximillianLukas i swear to god hes more intelligent and educated than your stupid ass. Joey is a hero and uses his brain to show them fools (just like you are), that theyre wrong and that theire arguments arent valid at all and doesnt even make sense, no matter how much of "intellectual" words you try to put in your sentence.. Everyone with at least half of a functioning brain that did watch the video sees how the black guy tripped over every argument he said 1-2 minutes ago and tries to erase or change his opinion. Thats just plain stupid and dumb, just like you are. Go back to elementary school and if you fell the need to judge me about my english, then go on, that shows me that your stupid ass doesnt have any valid arguments against my comment lol. But first learn my native language then, bro, cause its not english
But... More undercover investigations are taking place social media has been exposing the careful portrayal of the meat and dairy industry for what it really is a heart breaking nightmare for the Animals people are starting to wake up and become educated and are walking away. Dominion is on you tube, land of hope and glory you tube, Gary yourofsky the greatist speech you tube hogwood a modern day horror story on amazon prime. please watch and draw your own conclusions thank you.
Respectfully I disagree. He wanted to have an exhaustive debate and maybe. Just maybe. Him asking all these questions will make him reconsider how he eats.
@Michael Gamble true but the whole deal w vegans is (basically) that they don't use or eat animals. Clams are animals so I'm defo not eating them regardless of whether or not they feel pain.
@Michael Gamble they do have the early examples of the nervous system. Why point out things that's gave this early system to justify the slaughtering of things that do have full nervous systems and can feel pain?
The whole point of this guys argument comes down to is that it's his choice. He has no argument about it being humane in any way. He tries to play edge cases of what humans used to do when that has nothing to do with what is happening now. Arguing that it is never going to change is ridiculous, go vegan, save lives, live your morally correct life.
@Michael Gamble what do you mean by fake morals game? We always have had morals, a majority of society deems it immoral to murder someone, immoral to rape someone, immoral to kidnap someone. Why are we not applying that to sentient animals when we don't have to do any of it to them.
Maybe a better word is anything. You could easily argue that anything is a human construct purely because it's our own development, intelligence and understanding of the world that has created our general sense of morality and ability to perceive. Overall I don't think using "morality is a human construct" is a code or statement anyone should live by
Humans are an invasive species on this planet. We're destroying it, we're overpopulated and have no natural enemies. We don't inherit the earth from our children. It does not belong to humans. Earth is better off without us.
@@chillguy1095 if humans were never on this planet, trees (or whatever you want to call them) would still exist. What does that have to do with killing animals? 😅 the guy in the Video is just talking nonsense.
@Youngtrippie 21 if you've ever rescued an animal from a bad situation, they'll clearly show you they're greatful. Plenty of good examples of dogs expressing these emotions, I'm sure you'd find some videos if you had a look. But saying that, you've probably not even watched this video. You're probably just here to comment to get some interaction.. So hi mate, hope all is well 👋 Be open to expanding your view. Be open to extending your circle of compassion. If you're here because the topic of veganism is on your mind then you're half way there.. I was trying to find a reason or justification for not going vegan too, I loved the taste of meat.. But there's only so many videos/films you can watch, earthlings, dominion, land of hope and glory not to mention all the videos on TH-cam, before it becomes obvious there is not one single justification for eating meat. That is other than a survival situation.. But even then, if I found myself stranded alone on an island and found a pig, I'd befriend that pig and he or she could show me where the food and water is. But if you're commenting on a TH-cam video, as I am, we're not in a survival situation, that's why we can choose oat milk over cow's milk, chickpeas over chicken. Anyway.. Peace!
@@AliceRoche-ii2ke you're right I'm mad that even though people see how horrifically Animals are treated they continue to support the abuse, the murder, it's upsetting and I'm not alone in being upset.
@Youngtrippie 21 "Whats the point of not raping people anyway... We all gonna die anyway so what's the point its not likenon-rapists will live forever"
@@AlexMonajemi I agrees with you that vegans are violent to some extent... But what would you like to say about animals that are killed gratuitously to be on your plate just to please your sophisticated palate, how non-violent it is?? And, anger is a human tendency.. it has nothing to do with vegan or non-vegan. Similarly, becoming or being superior is an intrinsic desire of humans... what it have to do with vegans or non-vegans? And again, both vegan and non-vegan diet patterns have their own advantages and disadvantages.. ultimately, you can't be perfect. And yes, veganism is ruining nature but substantially less than other ways.
Fear of a Vegan Planet yes same. I am proud of myself though because I became vegetarian when I was 9 and before the internet with all its info and support. My whole family/friends were meat eaters and yet I changed. 9 years old. My parents then became veggie because I educated them. I’m sad I wasn’t vegan an awful lot longer ago though but that can’t be changed unfortunately .
@@Ameliajane2"I am proud of myself" You should be. I think it's basic compassion that's conditioned out of us as we're socialised. I told my mum I didn't want to eat meat at the age of six, as soon as I found out what meat was. She didn't take me seriously, but when I was still protesting about it at age eight, she let me be veggie thinking I'd soon realise my mistake and drop it. A few months later when I was showing no signs of dropping it, she used the opportunity of us moving house to a new town to make me eat meat again. I was devastated. She finally let me go veggie at thirteen. Then I went vegan when I moved out.
Same here, next month 2 years vegan, veggie before. I was so addicted to mothermilk products, shame on me. No problem to skip body parts & eggs for me.
I went back and forth vegan - vegetarian a couple of times but I just couldn't live with myself being "just" vegetarian. 19 years vegetarian 14 years vegan now...
Ugh this was very painful to watch. He tiptoed between the argument "yeah they're sentient but in the past we didn't know that" and "but are they sentient? how do you know that?".. as long as they experience and express pain, we shouldn't be torturing them. But again to anyone being willing to debate this issue, respect.
Love the consistent uploads! I notice you seem to be more patient with people and more philosophically open. Great work Joey! To all the vegans reading this, get active whichever way you can! Post on your social media, practice outreach to family, friends, and non-vegans in comment sections, join a cube of truth, strike up a conversation with people at the park with a dog, write with a sharpie on some tape and paste it visibly in the grocery store aisles, get chalk and write on a busy walking path in your neighborhood or park! If you're shy, nervous or introverted like me, and hate being the center of attention, just remember that in activism you are putting the animals at the center of attention, and your fear of being judged will subside greatly. Good luck!
The Happy Reaper the funny thing is you’re the classic type of person that mocks something that you haven’t done any research on. Just like non vegans mock veganism because they don’t understand it because of lack of research/education about it. You are behaving just like that about other subjects
I have never needed to have research prove to me that any animal is sentient, as an animal I know they have the basic comprehension that I have. You have to have become alien to this planet to not understand that.
He is not intelligent, he is intellectual. There is a big difference between the 2. Intellegence combines intellect and common sense and intuitive understanding. This man could not even accept such a basic truth of animals having a subjective experince. Even children understand this truth intuitively because it's so simple and absolutely undeniable that it cringes me even hearing him try to refute something to obvious.
Bailey vlog's And more but it’s not as ‘humane as possible’ because there’s a choice of veganism. Is not killing animal not more humane than killing animal? 🤣
Came here to say I just squatted 180 kg, I’ve been plant based for almost 3 years and I’m the biggest in the gym, think people need to ditch meat, eat right and then they’ll see some gains.
Wow, incredible PR. I am an beginner/itermediate female lifter and use my stats for activism too. I work out for animals now. It helps to shut down the protein question very quickly:)
Amazing educating and patience joey... Someone at work told me they watched one of your older videos or something and said you were a bit aggressive etc.... You've definitely become way more patient towards people. Great work mate ✌🏻👍🏻 PS, I've sent them this video.
Great job, Joey! Thanks for doing this. The arrogance and stupidity you deal with on a daily basis can be unfathomable. I admire your patience and selflessness
This guy just said he does not like science because it changes too much. That is the scientific method he does not like. I really think we need to hammer the scientific method down when kids are in school, and why it is so important.
@Danny Cartes What is racist about facts? Lmfao. You’re pathetic for having reported my comment to get it removed, just because you can’t handle basic facts.
Danny Cartes ^ shiII account. Has an account created in 2007, yet still has ZERO subscribers... Gets paid to stomp on our human rights by destroying our free speech, and thinks that it matters to go around excusing it by ridiculously calling people -ist/phobe type words.
There were two moments when he listened to his heart: when he told how he killed a chicken and when he saw the pigs in the gas chamber. All other arguments were only rational. His opening at the end of the conversation was nice!👏👏Thank you Joey for this conversation, you were great!!🙏🙏
@@BloodyRosie That's weird tho because Abrahamic religions claim that God made animals for human consumption and by that logic it's weird to be religious and vegan at the same time . Unless you're Hindu Buddhism or other Eastern religion who are against killing
@@Кенжетайұлы There are countless ways to interpret the books and there are conflicting writings within them regarding animal use. Humans were created in the image of God, right? So we should look within when we ask ourselves questions like why the animals feel pain and whether the Garden of Eden would look like a slaughterhouse.
Joey, you're just amazing!!! Please do not let anyone make you believe in the other way. I admire your compassion for animals and your patience to have these debates to help them. You're just a wonderful person and I hope I can meet you one day. Sending you so much love from Turkiye
This guy thinks he's in the matrix and he thinks every one of Joey's arguments he throws at him are easily dodged but in reality every single one hit spot on.
@Michael Gamble my bad I just assume if your watching Joey it's mainly based in the UK its a super store here, still though I don't understand why you'd need to hunt in a world such as today and don't say for conservation reasons because there are other ways to stop the population of deer alongside the fact the government regulates the deer population to gain money from hunting licenses.
@Michael Gamble It just isn't needed in this day and age though and it's been proven time and time again to be bad for us. Plus the wording your using is so far from the truth it's not 'harvesting' animals it's literally shooting them with a bow?(from what you said before I'm assuming bow) causing them pain just for you to enjoy a meal with meat.
@@MarkLumsley the moment Howu went with a cu cucumber is a living thing then it was donecf4om there. The human construct thing was a great approach. It threw Joey off his game and he could not find a way to rebuttal it. Plus the sentient argument didnt work on Joey's favor either.
You can be humane (compassion by defintion) and slaughter. Most hunters and pretty much any indigenous people across the globe show compassion for their kills by thanking the animal for the life they will bring to their families. Also many religions in their prayers will be thankful and appreciative for the food they receive.
Words have meaning. Humane is to have compassion, to care about their feelings and suffering, it's about being kind. Unnecessarily killing animals is by definition INHUMANE. 🙃
I appreciate your work Joey, changing one mind at a time with your respectful debates, and many others too by showing your videos, that's a great way to influence people and free the animals🦋👍🙏💞🐂🐎🐄🐑🐥
Great talk Joey. You don't need science. As you said animals fight for there life's and we can understand that and from there it's just the benefit of the little doubt.
I really liked this guy, but such a shame that he argues that animals aren't conscious/sentient. I've been around animals my whole life, and it's clearly obvious that they are. When I was younger, we had chickens as pets, completely free range, and were allowed to live out their lives regardless of egg laying ability. Numerous times I've watched them playing, including watching them play some sort of game of tag.
Joey, insects are animals. They have sentience. Let's keep that part consistent. Of course the level of consciousness/awareness may be different, but still very much sentient.
When he saw the leflet he realised there is a lot more Vegan options and his face lit up. Love that Tilly we need more young people like her plus she had a cool Bad Brains Bag :)
When you brought up the dog argument and he started laughing because he was caught off guard.. I saw that as an admittance that he knew that he was just being slippery. Like it's nothing more than a cat and mouse game and not a serious discussion. Which is the frustrating thing about this, the dishonesty. As long as their excuses remain uncontested by someone it's fine even though they know on some level that they are wrong.
?@@AliceRoche-ii2ke i would...in a survival situation...also why not? what trait is lacking in a animal that if lacking in a human would justify killing the human for food?
For Free help going vegan follow this link: bit.ly/JoeyVegan22
Support my activism here - www.patreon.com/joeycarbstrong
Poor negga
Piss of Joey.
Cutting a vegetable from it's root, is like cutting your hair or nails.
@@andrzejpogonowski5529 huh
@@AliceRoche-ii2ke u go away u troll
“You’re late for work”
“Sorry boss, I just don’t see it that way. Time is a human construct.”
😂😂
Lol yeah guys, I realize it's a human construct, but that fact is irrelevant in this situation, as with the situation in the video.
Some people actually work they don't just sit on their asses talking shit.
Best comment 😹!
@@adambennett2737 well you obviously don't ya troll.
What I hate about these debates is that most people don't even want to know the truth. They just want prove themselves right so they don't have to feel guilty. It's okay to recognise your mistakes and feel guilty. That's how change happens.
Well, vegans don't really like debates, do they? They're pretty much quote mining science, and define that as an absolute truth. Whilst what Z said is true:
1. Science is not perfect, the scientific conclusions keep changing as we learn more about the world.
2. We cannot really know whether all animals are conscious in the same way as we are.
It's irrelevant. When you see how pig reacts in a gas chamber. When a cow tries to escape from a stun box fighting for survival till the very end. They are living, sentient beings, able to feel pain and fear. Human's reasoning for animal abuse is pretty much "they don't speak english".
Very well said. You nailed the point.
@@ltschriscrucker it doesn’t take a scientist or intelligent person to see that human toddlers, human teenagers, human adults, pigs, dogs, cats, horses, cows, chickens, lambs, as examples, are conscious, sentient beings. As Joey said, they’re not all on the same level, just as not all human beings are on the same level. But it doesn’t change the very simple fact that all are sentient and conscious.
@@blue-calla you're interchangeably using words like sentence, consciousness, self-awareness etc without really having an idea of what it is, how to define it and how to test it. It's a vague concept that science haven't precisely defined. And for instance, how can you say that toddlers are conscious when we don't remember ourselves before an age of like 2-3 years? Is fetus that has developed a nervous system also conscious, sentient being? Then abortion too should be illegal, right? The self-awareness is sometimes indicated by the so-called mirror test. But guess what, pretty much only greater apes, dolphins and orcas pass it
he says he killed a chicken as a child and saw the way that it suffered and didn't want to eat chicken after that. then he was trying to say that those gas chambered pigs weren't feeling pain. doesn't make sense
it's hard to KNOW that you're wrong -- especially in front of someone who's educated about it. it's a shame he did a lot of mental gymnastics to avoid thinking about your destructive habits
Daniel Bonner you can’t hate someone for being brainwashed we all are in different ways . He actually seems like a cool and intelligent guy unfortunately he was conditioned from an early age to see animals as food for survival.
@@biowired is Joey educated? HHaha he was getting rekt.. should not talk to someone that understand life... Joey should go wannabe gangester again.. with you felles.. Daniel.. and the other once.. im out.. Joey gang, be your own man... sound like a bitch all off you, when you saying, Joey is so educated, he is so good.. read one page, and you level with him, hopefully
@@MaximillianLukas are you speaking English right now?
@@MaximillianLukas i swear to god hes more intelligent and educated than your stupid ass. Joey is a hero and uses his brain to show them fools (just like you are), that theyre wrong and that theire arguments arent valid at all and doesnt even make sense, no matter how much of "intellectual" words you try to put in your sentence.. Everyone with at least half of a functioning brain that did watch the video sees how the black guy tripped over every argument he said 1-2 minutes ago and tries to erase or change his opinion. Thats just plain stupid and dumb, just like you are. Go back to elementary school and if you fell the need to judge me about my english, then go on, that shows me that your stupid ass doesnt have any valid arguments against my comment lol. But first learn my native language then, bro, cause its not english
The mental gymnastics this guy will do to justify his immoral decisions is just insane. I dont think he even belives what hes saying.
He got all 10s!
Sounds like every non-vegan I’ve ever had to painful experience of talking to:/
You can see it in his body language too!
what you don't understand is that language is a human construct so you don't even really know what he was actually trying to say!
Well it definitely threw off Joey for the first 26 mins of the video.
I think most just do not want to admit they value their taste buds and convenience more.
But... More undercover investigations are taking place social media has been exposing the careful portrayal of the meat and dairy industry for what it really is a heart breaking nightmare for the Animals people are starting to wake up and become educated and are walking away. Dominion is on you tube, land of hope and glory you tube, Gary yourofsky the greatist speech you tube hogwood a modern day horror story on amazon prime. please watch and draw your own conclusions thank you.
I value BIOAVAILABLE NUTRIENTS. If I only cared about taste I would eat Doritos and drink Coca-Cola.
@@gmnotyet 8 Vegan Doctors Who Drive the Plant-Based Movement
nutriciously.com/vegan-doctors/
@@gmnotyet thats not an argument...u can thrive on a vegan "diet"
@@barco111 Bullshit
Puh that was exhausting to watch. This guy plays word games but all you need to know is that animals feel pain and they suffer.
Respectfully I disagree. He wanted to have an exhaustive debate and maybe. Just maybe. Him asking all these questions will make him reconsider how he eats.
@Michael Gamble true but the whole deal w vegans is (basically) that they don't use or eat animals. Clams are animals so I'm defo not eating them regardless of whether or not they feel pain.
@Michael Gamble they do have the early examples of the nervous system. Why point out things that's gave this early system to justify the slaughtering of things that do have full nervous systems and can feel pain?
The whole point of this guys argument comes down to is that it's his choice. He has no argument about it being humane in any way. He tries to play edge cases of what humans used to do when that has nothing to do with what is happening now. Arguing that it is never going to change is ridiculous, go vegan, save lives, live your morally correct life.
@Michael Gamble what do you mean by fake morals game? We always have had morals, a majority of society deems it immoral to murder someone, immoral to rape someone, immoral to kidnap someone. Why are we not applying that to sentient animals when we don't have to do any of it to them.
Lmao you could argue absolutely everything is a human construct
Everything? 🤔
Maybe a better word is anything. You could easily argue that anything is a human construct purely because it's our own development, intelligence and understanding of the world that has created our general sense of morality and ability to perceive. Overall I don't think using "morality is a human construct" is a code or statement anyone should live by
@@evegormley OK. I think I almost get what you're saying. So, how could a tree (for example) be conceived as a human construct?
Humans are an invasive species on this planet.
We're destroying it, we're overpopulated and have no natural enemies.
We don't inherit the earth from our children. It does not belong to humans.
Earth is better off without us.
@@chillguy1095 if humans were never on this planet, trees (or whatever you want to call them) would still exist.
What does that have to do with killing animals? 😅 the guy in the Video is just talking nonsense.
Joey you are next level activist, the animals and the planet are grateful :)
@Youngtrippie 21 wtf u on about?
@Youngtrippie 21
why do you watch videos about veganism if the topic clearly bothers you so much?
@Youngtrippie 21 if you've ever rescued an animal from a bad situation, they'll clearly show you they're greatful. Plenty of good examples of dogs expressing these emotions, I'm sure you'd find some videos if you had a look.
But saying that, you've probably not even watched this video. You're probably just here to comment to get some interaction.. So hi mate, hope all is well 👋
Be open to expanding your view. Be open to extending your circle of compassion.
If you're here because the topic of veganism is on your mind then you're half way there.. I was trying to find a reason or justification for not going vegan too, I loved the taste of meat.. But there's only so many videos/films you can watch, earthlings, dominion, land of hope and glory not to mention all the videos on TH-cam, before it becomes obvious there is not one single justification for eating meat.
That is other than a survival situation.. But even then, if I found myself stranded alone on an island and found a pig, I'd befriend that pig and he or she could show me where the food and water is.
But if you're commenting on a TH-cam video, as I am, we're not in a survival situation, that's why we can choose oat milk over cow's milk, chickpeas over chicken. Anyway.. Peace!
veganmoosician might as well write a book mate
@Youngtrippie 21 if animals aren't grateful for their lives, why do they avoid pain and death?
I think it's important to emphasis "this is only happening because you pay for it"
Exactly. No demand = no animal rape, infanticide, torture and murder
@@Incredible43 you're mad.
@@AliceRoche-ii2ke no u
@@AliceRoche-ii2ke you're right I'm mad that even though people see how horrifically Animals are treated they continue to support the abuse, the murder, it's upsetting and I'm not alone in being upset.
@@AliceRoche-ii2ke ur the one supporting this...the irony
Philosophy class here we go again...
Everyone knows vegans are right, but not everyone is willing to admit it
@Youngtrippie 21 "Whats the point of not raping people anyway... We all gonna die anyway so what's the point its not likenon-rapists will live forever"
@Youngtrippie 21 appeal to futility fallacy
@@barco111 I sincerely hope he was being sarcastic.
If he is a anti vegan then no
Why class mates always are confused how I eat steak and am vegan or pudding chocolate or stuff that’s would not be vegan 🌱 but we have that version
Joey has so much patience. I couldn't have continued with that conversation for a quarter of the time.
Same man. Same. That’s why I say Joey is a hero.
most vegans are violent and angry and act superior, even though their diet is what is ruining people and nature
@@AlexMonajemi I agrees with you that vegans are violent to some extent... But what would you like to say about animals that are killed gratuitously to be on your plate just to please your sophisticated palate, how non-violent it is??
And, anger is a human tendency.. it has nothing to do with vegan or non-vegan.
Similarly, becoming or being superior is an intrinsic desire of humans... what it have to do with vegans or non-vegans?
And again, both vegan and non-vegan diet patterns have their own advantages and disadvantages.. ultimately, you can't be perfect.
And yes, veganism is ruining nature but substantially less than other ways.
Why? Because these guy proved joey wrong and won the whole argument?
Not really. Screaming and crying is not really being patient
I couldn't imagine having that much patience for someone who doesn't believe that non-human animals are sentient. You're a saint Joey!
This guy is intelligent and open minded. I hope, I am looking at a future vegan.
Brilliant work Joey as always, although quite frustrating to hear this guy's perspective.
This guy seems cool, he would be much cooler if he was vegan
Ahhh no 😂
Sure he would...he would be living a more compassionate lifestyle
Fuck no! That’s dumb to say that. He is cool period. You not cool because you vegan. Anyway
He would be cooler if he was vegan. LMAO!!!!!!!! You wish you was as cool as him. LMAO!!
Troll
Been vegan near 4 years, veggie many more years. Only wish I had been vegan for as long as I had been veggie x
I wish I'd been vegan for as long as I'd been breathing.
Fear of a Vegan Planet yes same. I am proud of myself though because I became vegetarian when I was 9 and before the internet with all its info and support. My whole family/friends were meat eaters and yet I changed. 9 years old. My parents then became veggie because I educated them. I’m sad I wasn’t vegan an awful lot longer ago though but that can’t be changed unfortunately .
@@Ameliajane2"I am proud of myself" You should be. I think it's basic compassion that's conditioned out of us as we're socialised. I told my mum I didn't want to eat meat at the age of six, as soon as I found out what meat was. She didn't take me seriously, but when I was still protesting about it at age eight, she let me be veggie thinking I'd soon realise my mistake and drop it. A few months later when I was showing no signs of dropping it, she used the opportunity of us moving house to a new town to make me eat meat again. I was devastated. She finally let me go veggie at thirteen. Then I went vegan when I moved out.
Same here, next month 2 years vegan, veggie before. I was so addicted to mothermilk products, shame on me. No problem to skip body parts & eggs for me.
I went back and forth vegan - vegetarian a couple of times but I just couldn't live with myself being "just" vegetarian.
19 years vegetarian 14 years vegan now...
One of the more interesting debates, nobody was getting offended and defensive, a good back and forth.
Ugh this was very painful to watch. He tiptoed between the argument "yeah they're sentient but in the past we didn't know that" and "but are they sentient? how do you know that?".. as long as they experience and express pain, we shouldn't be torturing them.
But again to anyone being willing to debate this issue, respect.
This was some hard work. At the end it went out good, well done bro!
Love the consistent uploads! I notice you seem to be more patient with people and more philosophically open. Great work Joey!
To all the vegans reading this, get active whichever way you can! Post on your social media, practice outreach to family, friends, and non-vegans in comment sections, join a cube of truth, strike up a conversation with people at the park with a dog, write with a sharpie on some tape and paste it visibly in the grocery store aisles, get chalk and write on a busy walking path in your neighborhood or park! If you're shy, nervous or introverted like me, and hate being the center of attention, just remember that in activism you are putting the animals at the center of attention, and your fear of being judged will subside greatly. Good luck!
I had to step away from this video three times in absolute frustration!!!! Joey your patience never ceases to amaze
The "human construct" argument is functionally equivalent to "there is no such thing as ultimate morality". It's the ultimate sophist cop out.
It's selective nihilism, from people who certainly don't believe in nihilism when it comes to their own rights.
Fear of a Vegan Planet
Right. And they don't adopt this nihilism in any dealings with humans, or basically any other sphere at all.
You guys I dont believe the earth is round, because "round" is a human concept.
Then so is flat
The earth is flat. Wake up.
@The Happy Reaper C´mon, the spinning waterball is a masonic conspiracy. Who still believes this bs? And the moon landing?
@The Happy Reaper th-cam.com/video/_fHfgU8oMSo/w-d-xo.html 😍Ooh, how cute is this? You believe this crap coming out of the telly. Ok, take care lol
The Happy Reaper the funny thing is you’re the classic type of person that mocks something that you haven’t done any research on. Just like non vegans mock veganism because they don’t understand it because of lack of research/education about it. You are behaving just like that about other subjects
Congratulations on 118k subscribers, Joey!
some people think w their taste buds instead of brain cells....
I have never needed to have research prove to me that any animal is sentient, as an animal I know they have the basic comprehension that I have.
You have to have become alien to this planet to not understand that.
I don't need a vivisectionist in a lab to "prove" how animals can feel love, experience emotions and suffer. I trust my own eyes & ears for that.
"You'd be surprised." He really didn't know who he was talking to.
This guy is too intelligent to be making these terrible justifications.
Ur profile pic accurately represents the frustration in ur comment😂
@@cameronlikesbugs Lmao
he just isn't as smart as he thinks he is.
You think he's intelligent?
He is not intelligent, he is intellectual. There is a big difference between the 2. Intellegence combines intellect and common sense and intuitive understanding.
This man could not even accept such a basic truth of animals having a subjective experince. Even children understand this truth intuitively because it's so simple and absolutely undeniable that it cringes me even hearing him try to refute something to obvious.
His first argument was just a lie: not caring about the way he or anyone dies. That’s just a copout because he didn’t have an answer.
@Michael Gamble Tell that you the victim and their family you absolute tool.
@@TranceHeed if anyone is a tool is you. You make friends with your food.
@@vegavega2024 Bravo, Einstein. Do you eat dogs and cats as well?
@@TranceHeed i dont because they dont sell it.
@@TranceHeed I bet you dotn know why we dont eat cats and dogs einstein. You sure use that rebuttal because Joey uses lol!
Humane slaughter does not exist. It’s like saying kind fascist.
It might not be humanely done but its quick and as painless as possible. Just like the death penalty its done as humanely as possible.
Bailey vlog's And more the death penalty is for those that usually deserve death. Huge difference.
@Bailey vlog's And more gas chambers are quick and painless?
Bailey vlog's And more but it’s not as ‘humane as possible’ because there’s a choice of veganism. Is not killing animal not more humane than killing animal? 🤣
well i am a vegan fascist and im nice...fk democracy
Came here to say I just squatted 180 kg, I’ve been plant based for almost 3 years and I’m the biggest in the gym, think people need to ditch meat, eat right and then they’ll see some gains.
Wow, incredible PR. I am an beginner/itermediate female lifter and use my stats for activism too. I work out for animals now. It helps to shut down the protein question very quickly:)
Amazing educating and patience joey... Someone at work told me they watched one of your older videos or something and said you were a bit aggressive etc.... You've definitely become way more patient towards people. Great work mate ✌🏻👍🏻
PS, I've sent them this video.
dude when you said to him, "if theyre not sentient, how can they feel pain?" and the guy was just point blank staring. i felt that. nice one joey!
Hi! I love your videos! Where can I get those information sheets?
Great job, Joey! Thanks for doing this. The arrogance and stupidity you deal with on a daily basis can be unfathomable. I admire your patience and selflessness
Thank you for educating me and people around the planet. The videos are very helpful, it takes to see and hear to believe to help us make changes. 👍🏽
This is a great debate! Thank you Joey
"How do you know animals are sentient?" Is this guy for real? So he thinks that if he kicks a dog, he won't feel anything? Is he stupid?
Seems like a smart kind guy. I think he’ll be vegan
Your knowledge, witty and fast responses are just admirable. Hope to meet you one day!!!
This guy just said he does not like science because it changes too much. That is the scientific method he does not like. I really think we need to hammer the scientific method down when kids are in school, and why it is so important.
Yes, he is basically saying he doesn't trust science because it corrects itself when it's wrong. So presumably he'd trust something more if it didn't?
@UCVhYSE-D51jb-Ludmf7G7cQ go away u racist
@Danny Cartes
What is racist about facts? Lmfao. You’re pathetic for having reported my comment to get it removed, just because you can’t handle basic facts.
Danny Cartes
^ shiII account. Has an account created in 2007, yet still has ZERO subscribers... Gets paid to stomp on our human rights by destroying our free speech, and thinks that it matters to go around excusing it by ridiculously calling people -ist/phobe type words.
@Fear of a Vegan Planet
Like is said - what do you expect when the avg lQ of folks where he is from is 82.
Thanks for your activisim Joey. You're amazing. I hope to and plan to follow in your footsteps soon!
There were two moments when he listened to his heart: when he told how he killed a chicken and when he saw the pigs in the gas chamber. All other arguments were only rational. His opening at the end of the conversation was nice!👏👏Thank you Joey for this conversation, you were great!!🙏🙏
His arguments were totally irrational non sequiturs
Please keep on keeping on!!
Science "always changing" is a good thing, if it stayed the same, it would be religion.
@Daniel Bonner There are plenty of vegans who are religious. Even Gary Yourofsky is not an atheist. Not murdering others works for any religion.
@@BloodyRosie That's weird tho because Abrahamic religions claim that God made animals for human consumption and by that logic it's weird to be religious and vegan at the same time . Unless you're Hindu Buddhism or other Eastern religion who are against killing
@@Кенжетайұлы There are countless ways to interpret the books and there are conflicting writings within them regarding animal use. Humans were created in the image of God, right? So we should look within when we ask ourselves questions like why the animals feel pain and whether the Garden of Eden would look like a slaughterhouse.
Joey, you're just amazing!!! Please do not let anyone make you believe in the other way. I admire your compassion for animals and your patience to have these debates to help them. You're just a wonderful person and I hope I can meet you one day. Sending you so much love from Turkiye
Awesome work as usual mate
Appreciate for the video 🌹
He said it:
He knows we don't need to kill animals to survive.
Why woud you do it then?
Just for the hell of it. Pig taste good
@@kb6305 taste isn't the right justification to kill someone
that's not the question though, the question is can it be done humanely
Amazing convo, Joey 💚💚💚
Great job as always Joey👍🏻✨🌱❤️
I love this, keep up the good work Joey ❤️
veganism rox
sho duz
oh gaaaawd, the lion argument
Don't pretend you didn't know it was coming!
Lions though.... Lions though.... Ants though...
I've seen lions rape and murder ..And I don't understand why people don't legalize rape n murder 🤔
thank you Joey!! You have inspired me to go vegan and get into activism. You are TRULY an inspiration !
This guy thinks he's in the matrix and he thinks every one of Joey's arguments he throws at him are easily dodged but in reality every single one hit spot on.
@Michael Gamble hahaha you think your hunting walking through Tescos hahahahaha
@Michael Gamble my bad I just assume if your watching Joey it's mainly based in the UK its a super store here, still though I don't understand why you'd need to hunt in a world such as today and don't say for conservation reasons because there are other ways to stop the population of deer alongside the fact the government regulates the deer population to gain money from hunting licenses.
@Michael Gamble It just isn't needed in this day and age though and it's been proven time and time again to be bad for us. Plus the wording your using is so far from the truth it's not 'harvesting' animals it's literally shooting them with a bow?(from what you said before I'm assuming bow) causing them pain just for you to enjoy a meal with meat.
@Michael Gamble Our ancestors also used to live in caves and were naked . Would you follow that too ?😂
My god, this guy is clutching at straws. And his 'go-to' of 'human construct' is a bit repetitive...
Bro Joey got destroyed.
My dark skinned brother murdered this debate. LOL!
@@vegavega2024 ur delusional
@@vegavega2024 I mean... feel free to explain how, mate :)
@@MarkLumsley the moment Howu went with a cu cucumber is a living thing then it was donecf4om there. The human construct thing was a great approach. It threw Joey off his game and he could not find a way to rebuttal it. Plus the sentient argument didnt work on Joey's favor either.
Love the content Joey. 🙏
Respect for Joey his patience
"I say what say even though it makes no sense, and contradict myself every sentence I utter" - Tupac 2.0
The words humane and slaughter contradict each other. There you go!!!!
You can be humane (compassion by defintion) and slaughter. Most hunters and pretty much any indigenous people across the globe show compassion for their kills by thanking the animal for the life they will bring to their families. Also many religions in their prayers will be thankful and appreciative for the food they receive.
Joey you do such great work man😍🤗
This guy is the quintessential personification of talking loads but not saying nothing. How exhausting. 🙄
He says what everyone else says but in a complicated way. Human construct, circle of life, not sentient, etc.
100%
He said “human construct” 61 times.
Good work Joey
Sign me up for the *"Can you train a cucumber?"* shirt.... that was too funny 😂😂😂
I wish so much i had your knowledge Joey :-) Im gonna have to do alot more research so i can inform others of the information.. thank you
Great job joey
Well done Tilly!! 💚👍👍
Thankyou:) ❤️
Joey is on fire!!
great work as always Joey. Where is the statistic from that you mentioned at 21:11?
"You're good at this aren't you. You know what you're doing" Oh yes.
When is the next video up? Can’t wait! 👍👍
When ever someone ask me how I know animals want to live, I ask them how they think an animal would react if I held the animal over a cliff
Lol no need for that my cat doesn't even likes if I hold him for long time
this guy would respond to you with "Yes obviously, because they can feel fear and they can feel happiness." Fucking moron
Words have meaning. Humane is to have compassion, to care about their feelings and suffering, it's about being kind. Unnecessarily killing animals is by definition INHUMANE. 🙃
Joey u r awesome human being.
Ur talking skills are brillant always on point.
This guy was very respectful . Great conversation .
Ever been knocked out! Great analogy!
I appreciate your work Joey, changing one mind at a time with your respectful debates, and many others too by showing your videos, that's a great way to influence people and free the animals🦋👍🙏💞🐂🐎🐄🐑🐥
good job Joey ♡
I don’t think this guy believes the words coming out of his own mouth. Joey, your patience is highly admirable 🙌🏻
Great talk Joey. You don't need science. As you said animals fight for there life's and we can understand that and from there it's just the benefit of the little doubt.
Woa I can't wait for the next vid. Thanks Joey!
Smart guy if he is honest with himself he will go vegan
exactly
Certainly puts a lot of cognition into making up excuses
🤣 Joey your face is so amusing in this... Like seriously, has this guy got a brain 🤣🤣🤣... Loads of respect Joey 💯
How much science do you need to see that an animal wants to live god dammit! 😂
I really liked this guy, but such a shame that he argues that animals aren't conscious/sentient. I've been around animals my whole life, and it's clearly obvious that they are. When I was younger, we had chickens as pets, completely free range, and were allowed to live out their lives regardless of egg laying ability. Numerous times I've watched them playing, including watching them play some sort of game of tag.
Joey, insects are animals. They have sentience. Let's keep that part consistent. Of course the level of consciousness/awareness may be different, but still very much sentient.
No ones talking about the girl at the end. So amazing what she achieved at her school. She deserved so much more praise for that 👏👏👏
He seems like a nice chap
When he saw the leflet he realised there is a lot more Vegan options and his face lit up. Love that Tilly we need more young people like her plus she had a cool Bad Brains Bag :)
I don’t know why or if I’m the only one, but this guy annoyed me so much, I can’t even🤯🤯🤯 how do you keep such composure, I envy you Joey 😩😂
bro what was that handshake in the end :DDD
I was nervous😂
I enjoyed this street activism debate. Well done sir ✌
'Human construct' seems to be his get out clause, for justifying killing animals.
When you brought up the dog argument and he started laughing because he was caught off guard.. I saw that as an admittance that he knew that he was just being slippery. Like it's nothing more than a cat and mouse game and not a serious discussion. Which is the frustrating thing about this, the dishonesty. As long as their excuses remain uncontested by someone it's fine even though they know on some level that they are wrong.
2:39 "Idk if you're familiar with killing chickens" lol
Why doesnt he eat humans
because we are so much more special or something
Why would we eat our own species???
?@@AliceRoche-ii2ke i would...in a survival situation...also why not? what trait is lacking in a animal that if lacking in a human would justify killing the human for food?
@@AliceRoche-ii2ke why not
@@barco111 do other animals only eat members of their own species?
Great video Joey.