Thank you so much for clearing up some of these myths Tim. Trying to spread the word to get people to watch very informative. Some of the constant back and forth on the forums does get overwhelming. Keep up the great work.
I'm also impressed with how many replys you make to comments. I saw comments on the FE. Ford engine. Ford Edsel. As far as I know there is not a definitive answer on that. On high output oil pumps. I guess if you're not seeing the bearings get oil washed, distributor gear or cam gear wearing out, or breaking a oil pump drive. It's not too much flow or pressure. Of course I have read many articles from builders that say it could rob power being a parasitic load. Great videos. You have passion for that mid size mighty Ford and it shows.
Your welcome Eddie. I try and answer all comments. I see other channels and the subs are not even recognized. I guess if they are so big, that stops. That is what makes my channel different, I want you to be there bs ing with me in the DragBoss garage. The oiling mods are basically common fluid flow sense, eliminate strictures and improve. I have not experienced those issues, lucky or prepared. Appreciate you taking the time to comment and help me build my channel. Stay tuned, way more in store
Hello Tim , love your passion . I always loved the Cleveland and still do. 30 years ago i had a 351 Cleveland in a Australian Ford Fairmont, it was mild.Car weighed 3520lbs reved it to 7400rpm hydraulic isky cam 10.5 comp , std rods Holley street 2v intake very reliable done thousands of klms . Car ran 13.00 at 107mph 30 years ago , remember this was a street car .Anyway keep it up .
Thank you Peter from down under, so glad you made it. Your Fairmount sounds like a great street car, 13s is fast, and 30 years ago, even faster. I appreciate you watching and taking the time to share your experience with the ole Cleveland. Thanks and please 👍 and subscribe
No BS & straight to the point. Love your honesty brother. God Bless ya. Got 82 400m stock RV engine. 75k miles. I'm wanting to to build a TMeyer version 412 hp 500tq for 85 f250 XLTLariet 4sp 4x4. Although a 5 or 6 sp manual be a bit sweeter
I'm a firm believer in Kenne-Bell. Jim Bell to be exact. He is a engine Engineer. He made this mini news paper things called Kenne-Bell news letter Buick news. One of the best articles he wrote and did alot of testing on? Oil pressure and volume. It's about having the right volume of oil to a certain pressure. Look at a Dry sump pump. They don't vary in pressure or volume but constant pressure to a certain volume. Deburring the oiling system is something every should really think about. Look in to Jack Roush back when he was campaigning Mark Martin. Oil control was his number one priority. He controlled every aspect of oil, from pressure to volume to where it drained at. I love this video because it explains alot.
Thanks so much for seeing what I was trying to explain. You are so right, you can improve the oil system and make them scream. I remember those guys, big power adder contributors. Dry sump is the ultimate, but the old Cleveland oil system can work, with some work. Glad your into it. Please like 👍 and subscribe
Dick jhonson racing use to lengthen the drain back holes in the lifter Valley its a another trick that might be worth mentioning. This was used on a falcon that weighed 1.45 tone and did Bathurst 1000 and the blocks never failed. The biggest issues Australian Turing car drivers had with Cleveland's was oil surge caused having a front sump with only 4 litre capacity ( bigger sump with baffling fixed that). Valve springs and rocker arms past 7 thousands was an issue but more of a problem of that time ( spring technology and the change in rules allowing roller rockers be fitted fixed that issue) and last but not least over heating which was fixed with better and bigger radiators and and making shore all air was bleed out of the cooling system ( some people put air bleeds at high point on front of both heads) as for blocks failing and cracking and splitting never happened they made anywhere from 400 hp to 550 hp lugging around a cars that weigh 1300 kg to 1600 kg spinning from 6500 to 7500 rpm on sprint races to endurance races using 2 or 4 bolt mains never a failed block so people saying there week is just bull shit. Keep it cooled and we'll oiled and it will go hard all day which is no different from any other American/Australian V8
I have seen that trick too, on some other blocks pics from down under. Thanks so much for the tip, and taking the time to tell us your real life experience, makes a difference. Those blocks do hold up well just need some tlc in the right places. Sounds you were down with it at Bathhurst. There are couple of vids, with great in car footage, and you see the gauges and hear the screaming cleveland. Thanks for taking the time for us.
Now I can not wait for your new pro line of videos, old time racers made stuff work kids couldn't imagine how to do with the old stuff because they just buy and bolt today. So much good information on your platform.
Thanks John, you are so right. No just bolt and go, need to do some thinking and planning. Learn from experience not ordering out of a catalog. Appreciate the comments
Agreed. In the late 70's I would mix and match parts on a Cleveland and see how it ran. One thing I found Cleveland really likes Windsor rods and 302 pistons.
Awesome video, I've always been a huge Cleveland fan!! I'm actually building a 70 Torino GT Convertible right now with a 4bbl Cleveland. It's great to clear up all the myths about this engine. When it comes to a Cleveland there are plenty.
I bought 3 parts cars, all Torino’s, a few years ago and found out 2 of them had Cleveland’s and one had the 429 cj. All need work, body panels and some cosmetics. But, all are worth it for sure. Guy wanted them out of the farmyard because the municipality were busting his hump over the mess. All diamonds in the rough, glad I happened to be driving by the place on my way to the city. Stuffs getting rarer all the time. I wish Ford would’ve made the Cleveland more years than they did. One of the best engines they ever made
I agree with you on the Cleveland, definitely my favorite engine. It does sound like you got some good parts, and they don’t make them anymore. I love Torinos. I think 72-3 my favorite years. so I do the same thing if I can catch something good. Try to slow down on buying parts and use them all in builds. Thanks for sharing with me Ryan and DragBoss Garage.
When you have had a hard day working and you love cars...your channel is awesome. I love to prop up my feet and watch anything on cars...especially engine work. I'd love to see anything on shelby gt. (Hint Hint). 😉
Great video. Back in the early 1970s here in Australia, they raced the GT Falcons with the 351 C. Main issue was the small factory sump and the sticky race tyres. Lots of engines died due to surge. The real issue was with the 4.5 litre sump, at 6,000 rpm there was only 2 litres or so in the sump...the rest was up high. Teams were eventually allowed to run a dry sump system which fixed a lot of issues. Great to watch all the interesting things about the Cleveland.
Mike, learned that 40 years ago. They need a 9 qt sump and majority of oiling issues gone. No one does this, they put in a 6-7 qt pan and think good to go. Yes have thought about external wet sump
@@DragBoss351Cleveland in Australia too. G'day bro. to help Ford fix the oiling problems, there are some GTHO Phase 3 Clevelands that had a sump with protrusions on the sides. they looked rough, like an apprentice bashed it out on a bench and attaching it was his first weld. they where pretty much test sumps to go on the GTHO Phase 4. ford used the same sump on the few production Phase 4's. funnily enough they looked just as bad as the originals? they dropped the idea for the production GT's and decided to use OEM sumps as it was cheaper than retooling. in the early 70's many privateers would make their own versions of these sumps. "some say" with these mods and a few home made baffles they were the only thing that saved their Cleveland from Bathurst.
@@williamhardes8081they were called 'winged sumps" and I saw a few fitted to modified Australian Clevelands, oil restrictors available cheaply aftermarket forced more pressure down on the crank bearings, the top end oiled so well it was rare to see a camshaft wear out unlike the unique to GM Australia Holden 253 and 308 cu inch cams that showed early wear.
Good info , no bullshit and straight to the point, I'm building a 393c and I've been trying to find out the best thing to do to the oiling system and you answered all my questions , spot on .
All I can say is, WOW!!. I have tried to find info on the 351C for years. Although my intrest is actually info on head gasket installations, I have my own problem, and that problem is a boiling/clicking sound when the engine heats up. I will keep looking here, and have subscribed for a greater education on the 351. Thank you for your time producing these videos. P.S. I am also an old Bob Glidden fan.
Cool beans Steve. Usually if the head gasket is on backwards, the engine will heat up fast. Constantly run hot. What you have sounds like maybe some air in the system, that boils percolates, you can hear it banging sometimes so you need to bleed off the air at least make sure that’s not an issue. Usually bring it up to temperature of the radiator cap off and look for bubbles. I suspect a slight head gasket leak could also cause this noise. Engines always seem to make noises as they heat and cool clicking clacking, also glad your Glidden fan thanks for being here Steve way more in store, share with your buds thanks
Exactly, do what works for you. Just trying to keep you focused depending on what level build you have, and to help you get the most from your combination. Be safe and stay tuned.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 👍🏼 agree though with the thin Cylinder Wall issues, best is to try score a decent stock virgin bore Clevo to start with, & only take it out minimal (eg +20thou max) if possible. They need all the help they can get..... we had so many floating around down here in 🇦🇺 but are getting scarce nowadays & fetching up to $1k for one .🤷🏼♂️
@@69JANKS Yes I have a couple of blocks that are standard, so I would use one of them. I would like to use the rods and pistons in vids, which are for a 4 inch bore. Have to be making more vids on that block preparedness, including filling.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland yes Tim, seen them & thought Wow 😯 , they are a cool set 👍🏼🏁 Look super light also, not too long & be awesome in slightly smaller Ci combo 🤷🏼♂️will look out for that one 💪🏼🏁
@@69JANKS yes I will make a 342 Cleveland if it all works out. Other pro stock mill will be 354ci, it already makes 615hp, at 8000. see what we can get out of with TR and two dominators. Appreciate your enthusiasm.
Thanks man, just making a clarification, so people can delineate the difference. Gets people going. Thanks again and please share with your friends. More to come
The lifter bushings in a 351c are not necessary as long as the lifter bores are not damage due to scoring or rust pitting. If the bores are not damaged, oil does not escape between the lifter and block like everyone thinks. The oil hole in the lifter itself is the problem. Since Clevelands have priority oiling to the lifter first, the oil holes in the lifter allow too much oil to be pumped to the rockers on the right side. I have discovered using a custom pushrod with a .020 oil hole will help keep the rockers from receiving to much oil and helps boost the pressure. My 351c prepped in this way holds 20-25 psi idling and 50 psi at 2000 rpm using a light weight 10w30 oil. Many 6500 and 7000 rpm shifts and the stock type .020 under rod bearings look good as new. I have the other typical oiling mods like restrictors to the cam bearings and external oil line feeding the block behind the intake from the front oil port. I am not a fan of lifter bushings. If the finish on the bushing isn't perfect, you can run into problems with the lifters sticking. If the oil hole isn't located in the bushing in the exact correct position for your particular set of lifters, you will have plenty of oil pressure and not a drop of oil getting to the rockers because the hole in the lifter never aligns with the hole in the bushing to receive oil. Save yourself the headache. Lifter bushings should only be used to repair damaged bores.
Hey Duke ie. Jason I appreciate you watch my videos and commenting. I’ve never used any restrictor push rods. I’ve only used the basics, never use the front rear line until this bill. I’m not comfortable with your oil pressure numbers but that’s me. Also Cleveland‘s really don’t need any work if you keep it below seven grand, 65 to 7 grand you should have no problems even with a stock oiling system. But either way like I always say, do what works for you. I do like lifter for bushings, I think they do a great job, but I’ve never had used any as I always thought the expense was not worth results, with current and past builds. I do want to use them in my pro stock build though. But you are correct with the work bore you start to lose oil pressure, so good point. Thanks Jason for watching.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland we built a strictly race only Cleveland once that we installed oil restrictors in the actual lifter itself before we knew about the restrictor pushrods. With a Melling HV oil.pump and a 100psi spring installed, the engine had 60 psi idling and 100psi at 8500 rpm. The oil pressure numbers I mentioned in my previous reply are from my street engine. I found that particular configuration to be reliable and robs the least horsepower. Oil pumps running high pressures are extremely parasitic which is probably why dry setups are preferred for racing where they can reduce the power losses using pulleys.
@@dukelps9132 I appreciate you getting back to me, and sharing with me your history. I’ve never used 100 psi spring, only high-volume oil pump, 9 quart pan, I never had any issues. My engine always seem to run 65 hot, and go to the traps at 8200 would be about 72 psi. One engine I had Ran five years with no maintenance whatsoever. Pass motor ever until the block decided to say bye-bye. I’ve only used the oil restrictor kit, and then when I went to 408 stroker, I used to Myers restrictor can bearings. That was say cars don’t need as much oil pressure thing to do especially on the street.
Very enthusiastic delivery Tim. You really know how to hammer the main points home. I'm not sure how high they revved the Bathhurst Clevos back in the day, but I'm fairly sure the best performers had massaged oiling systems. The '70 race was the first with a "335 series" engine, and Moffat won in the factory run Falcon; then again in '71, even with a cardboard box stuck in front of the radiator for some time ! Further into the Seventies, I think they were up-ing the rpm, and oiling issues killed plenty of Clevelands on Mount Panorama !!
Thank you Adrian, I was a little dramatic, to kind of hit the point home, about Ford identification, not that physical size specs. I am working on a vid I hope to get out tomorrow on the oil system, and oil control. Something no one has talked about on video that I have seen. I think it will be pretty cool, and help us get a better understanding of what we can do, so we can run 8k with no worries. Appreciate your comments, please like, and stay tuned....
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Man, I thumbs up every comment in all your videos, unless I certainly disagree with a particular comment..... off to work now,....catch ya later !!
I know from experience on a 70 351 4v engine or later one major weakness is the multi groove valve stem retainer locks slipping under high rpm. This is corrected on the boss heads. I had a 71 Torino GT with a 351 4v moroso restrictor kit try 11:1 pistons cloyes roller chain crane fireball hydraulic cam torker intake 1” spacer with a Holley spread bore center squirted ,Mallory dual point and hooker 2.5 super comp headers and electric fuel pump in trunk. C-6 small stall and 391 rears. The car was white and pinstriped by the mad stripper in Decatur Ga. My Dad worked for Carey Paul Ford as shop foreman and this was my first car. It was 1980 he bought it from Brim Paul the older of Mr Paul’s sons and it had 62000 miles and was a very nice car. I went to Rockdale County High School in Conyers Ga. we used to hang out at Salem Gate plaza and pick up races. I won more than I. Ever lost I beat 440s,396s you name it. People always say that that car sounded so good the way it pinged through the headers into the factory duals. My name is Donnie Jones and it was the time of my life. How I never got a ticket for street racing is beyond me. There were a lot of bad cars in Conyers at that time .I went in the Army and when I ets got married had kids. But I have had 2 427 galaxies some old trucks ,Broncos and the such.
Sounds like the Torino had it down for sure Norman. Thanks for telling us the history, sounds pretty fast for back in the day. Appreciate you stopping by and enjoying the channel. Please subscribe as there is so much more to come. Stay tuned.
The multi groove valve stem collets were NOT designed to lock, so the valves would spin and wear evenly. The secret trick was to grind the stock locks (collets) where they touch each other, bringing the collets closer together, causing them to lock on to the valves. Also, don't use use the stock retainers. I've seen them bend and nearly swallow the collets with mild cams and springs.
WORD my Australian neigbour. Great to see world wide message tribe of crazy rat roster, Predator and Tunnel Rammed Clevelands with pillow blocks and all manner of weird factory and Total Performance parts. Keep up your awesome work Mr H.:-)
Sure will Dean, new 354ci Cleveland should be here in the next couple of weeks for my wife, she can get that TR bolted up. Calling carb guy today see about him, going through my 2 sets of Dominators to restore. Stay Tuned
I think the 351 Ford Cleveland is the most beautiful engine FMC ever made. If it hadn't been for the EPA, the Cleveland mill could have been the most efficient ci/hp ever made. I've got one in my Cobra kit car and it rocks. I look for 5.0 mustangs to battle with.
Thanks Dragboss!! You forgot one myth tho. Chevy engines can make same power cube to cube. Lol. I enjoy your videos. Thanks again. Say hello to Family for me.
They sure can, I tried to keep it a secret, but, just could not. We are all good here, working away in the DragBoss garage. Toasty, smell of race fuel in the air. Trying to keep the Cleveland alive. Stay tuned.
Just wanted to give an update on the Fairmont: I currently have a 30 yard dumpster in the yard and have about got the car dug out. I will hold on to it all the way up until we are ready to go to market with our property. That will be around mid spring. I will email some pics soon! Awesome news about Rusty! I look forward to that content!
Thanks Brian, was thinking about that with the new rods and pistons I recent got. Your moving right along, yes keep me posted, this could all work out. Yes Rusty is a good guy, been through some rough times. I will get those interviews rolling. Thanks for supporting my channel and helping me. Hope all is well, stay tuned Brian.
My dad was an old school mechanic and a hard core Ford guy. He told me 30 year ago that 351 Clevelands were one of the best power makers Ford ever produced, but had cylinder wall cracking problems. So he built a 351Windsor block with dome pistons, and a large cam, and modified some 351 Cleveland 2bbl heads to fit it. He then built his own sheet metal intake manifold and topped it with an 850 Holley. Then he cut a hole in the hood of his Torino to clear the carb and intake, and built is own traction bars. Next was a set of slicks. My mom thought he had lost his mind, but it was the fastest street car at our local track for 3 years straight. Finally got kicked off the track for not having a roll cage when the track was purchased by a new owner lol
Another example of ingenuity and working with what he had. Sounds like a hard worker with determination. Thanks Ed. Tell your dad right on, he still wrenching
@@DragBoss351Cleveland He's been gone for many years now, but he definitely taught me to "Build it, dont buy it". Also the pure joy of out running a $30K car with a $1500 car built from stuff just laying around the shop. It's a great feeling. Anyway, thanks for the info you provide in your videos, keep up the good work
@@edjackson4389 thanks Ed. Appreciate you being here. Yes sir, I never throw anything out. You never know when your going to need it. Rip he taught you well, things you will always remember, like my dad.
You and me both, so much in store. Keep moving forward and I also can’t wait to hear it roar. Be some time but it is all coming together. Thanks Edward please subscribe.
Also Tim id like to add. I’ve used lifter bore bushings , the auxiliary line, and restrictors as well as tmeyer cam bearings. As of now the only mod i use is Tims restrictor Bearings. The last Clevelands sees 7300 rpm shifts on two bolt no problem so far.
Good real life experience too. Yes I have used his bearings with 8200 rpms, on two bolt mains also. It’s all about the little details that keeps the oil wheee it needs to be. Glad your here Steve. Thanks for the support
Man those rods and pistons are a work of art; a thing of beauty! (Without the blower) I found the power was definitely in the compression, more exhaust duration, with as much advance timing in the ignition that I could get away with, along with advancing the cam mentioned previously. Mine had the stock 4bbl heads remember. I ran 10.5:1 back in the day when premium gas (Ethyl) was on the way out, and unleaded (white lawnmower gas) was coming in. I'd buy bottles of lead at auto part stores for no knock while cruising. But if the orange (both gm and mopar) wanted to make a play, I'd stop by the airport and get a tank of 100 LL (low lead) aviation fuel. I lived in a small town and they knew me, so I'd pull out on the tarmac and they'd fill me up at something like 4 bucks a gallon (the stuff is a pretty blue, and smells good too!). Wish I would have known some of those secrets you're sharing. Did my own blueprinting. I'd turn it over 7,000 for the heads to work their magic. Even turning it that tight, the engine never blew even with 2 bolt mains. I did shatter about every piston ring and some pistons when I ran a small pulley on the blower. When i gave friends a ride they were definitely impressed, I was too for a while before limping home blue smoke covering the neighborhood. Sometime I'll tell you how I hid a nitrous system on the 'stang that only a few knew about.
I have to say one of the best smells is racing fuel. I love the smell when you sit at a light and people start to smell it. 10.5 seems like it may have been a little high on cr, maybe a bit too much cylinder pressure. Bet it was a blast to drive. Glad your into it. You will have to share your secret nitrous location sometime in the near future. Please like and subscribe. Appreciate the comments 8/8.
Not every one agrees with the 335 engine series v small block. It makes no difference, bottom line, I want to help guys understand what they can do to make power and longevity. It’s gets people thinking and active. Thanks Andy for always contributing to my channel, throw a like and lets keep Rocking
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Tim I'm going to give you some ammo for your argument.. let's use Mopar as the first example.. They referred to their engines by letter designations.. "Small Block" engines were coded from Mopar A, and LA engines.. "Big Block" were the B and RB engines.. with R meaning Raised Block... Pontiac and AMC used the same block from 301-455 and 304-401 respectively.. no small or big blocks there... From my best understanding the term came from Hot Rodders referring to the Small Block chevy which is 9.06 deck height vs the Big Block at the time was the 348-409 but when the 396 came out the block had a similar appearance to the Small Block but having a 9.8 deck height... Ford referred to the Small Block as the fairlane engine in the beginning.. it never had a name until the Boss 302, and 351 Windsor/ Cleveland terms still used today! Windsor and Cleveland names are like peanut butter and jelly.. is it fair to call such different engines all small blocks? It kills me when people call FE' Mid blocks. Where does that come from? It's an FE just like the 385, and 335 series engines and don't forget the 427 SOHC and the BOSS 429 engines which were part of the FE and 385 series . That is their given Ford names! Don't forget Chevy named their special engines too LT1, ZL1, and now LS1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 and the new LT series engines.. Keep up the great work!!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Thank you Andy for taking the time out of your busy day, to help with some excellent work explaining, all makes of engines, into their respective BB, Sb designations, similarities, and contrast, I think you really went the extra mile, to contribute, and I thank you so much. 335 engine series, are what they are called, their nomenclature in the Ford engine line up. I never mentioned the physical attributes, such of bore spacing, or ci, which the Cleveland shares with the Windsor, and 289/302. just putting it on the shelf where it belongs from organizational standpoint. Yes sir, I try not to get worked up, but on the other hand, I like people to think, and say how they feel. It keeps communication flowing. I am glad you can see that things are not always what they appear. Further investigation is always warranted. Keep your channel Rocking and thanks for hanging out at the DragBoss garage....Stay Tuned.
You are indeed correct that Ford never made a small block or big block. 260, 289, 302 and 351W were simply known as the Ford 90° V8. FE was Ford Engine. MEL was Mercury Edsel Lincoln. FT was Ford Truck. 335 Series was Cleveland, 400 and 351M. 400 was by itself and the Modified came in with a destroked 400. 400s were the only engines offered with 3 different bellhousing flanges (small 90° flange, dual small flange AND 385 Series flange and straight 385 Series flange).
Your exactly right. People are reading deep, which is why I said what I did. As far as nomenclature goes, 335 engine series, not small block ford. Technical, but correct. It was sort of a blanket statement, which is hard to do, if you stated any physical specs on block, such as bore spacing, bellhousing, I just said what Ford labeled it and identified it as. Thanks again for contributing to my channel. That Fairmount could be the destiny of the pro stock 342.
@@makattak3550 FE stood for Ford Engine in tech lit. MEL was Mercury Edsel Lincoln. Edsel never used engines off the Ford line, only the MELs. Ford, on the other hand, did use a MEL engine in a single Ford model and that was the Thunderbird with the 430 option in the 58-63 models.
Looking forward to your dyno video, certainly racy looking heads you have there. We're doing a mild street 393 C build in the coming months. Customer had a standard bore 4 bolt block, something I didn't think still existed 50 years later. We're going with the Speedmaster heads since that's all we can find in the Covid era, and they look pretty nice for what they cost.
Thanks, they are old Ford Motorsport heads, A3s. A 393c will be ripping up the pavement for sure. Think you will really like it. Cleveland's are out there, just need to know where to look.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland This just popped up, Speedmaster 3V heads should be called SHITmaster. What a turd this 393 was. We built a similar one maybe 10 years prior with factory iron 4V heads and it must have made 60 more than this engine. Stay FAR away from Speedmaster.
@@yarrdayarrdayarrda speed master are technical thieves. Ever touch anything they copy and produce. That really sucks bad, is what are you going to do?
Mr. Dragboss! I finally got it done! 72 Ford 351 Cleveland uncracked and all stock with the original parts. Now I know I will need your advice and knowledge of the platform. Mom is going to be a bit proud and happy, hopefully she doesn't have a heart attack when she gets in the car and turns the key. Again thanks for the video and prodding I love and needed to get it done. Phase 1 secured the engine. Great Monday evening to you and your family!
Awesome John your on the way to high hp cleveland. It will make your moms heart rate increase that is for sure. Get it tore down and see what she looks like. Hope you have a great Tuesday. Wife and I putting up gazebo. No garage work😳
Yes they are into it too, just have to get everything coordinated. I can’t wait either. Just trying to juggle everything. So be patient and stay tuned. Thanks watching please subscribe
Most people call the Cleveland a Small Block cause of the bell housing pattern. This is what I have found over the years. The Cleveland used the same bell housing pattern as the 289/302. The 351M and 400's used the 429/460 bell housing pattern, but the flywheel is a whole different thing.
The new ford pro stock motor also used the same bell housing, but it is not “small block”. I am talking about what ford called it. Glad you contributed and paying attention. Thanks watching and don’t forget to subscribe and like 👍
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Maybe Ford chose the term 335 instead of small block? Have you ever watched the Australian door slammers with Benny Gatts 351? He ran against Victor Bray a lot, who used a Keith Black 426 Hemi platform. Hardly fair, but Benny's 351 was an absolute monster. Bray beat him most times, but it was in the milliseconds. That's 351 power like nothing else.
Delt with a few Cleveland engines. Had one in a Ford LTD that I later put in a 65 F100. Lost the rear main seal and pumped oil out. Took 11 quarts of oil to go 100 miles and then it spun the bearings. I have one on my engine stand and am looking at modifications to put a pair of cut and welded Cleveland heads on a stroked 4.0 Jeep engine. Bore centers are the same and head bolt holes on one side line up. Also looking onto the 2.5 Jeep 4 cylinder with a Cleveland head on it. Highway 101 Rod and Custom.
Hey James thanks for watching. Wow sounds like you have. Some cool plans. Be interested to see how it all works out. Never knew they fit in regards to bore centers. Good luck and thanks for watching.
Well said mate, my AFD headed Parker manifold 2 bolt 100,000 mile block with 3 sleeves 393 has made about 350-400 11.0 passes. Am I'm worried. hell no! Just want to rip it down the track again. I use a hi vol pump and by pass line. And its fine by me. And in Australia they call the 400 a Cleveland as well. Grrrrrrrrrr 🤬 I keep an eye out for blocks with the lifter bore central to the casting boss. Great video.
Thank you and appreciate your contribution. I have always used a high volume pump, and that is what works for me. It’s all about attention to detail, make sure your bearing clearance match your combo and parts used. Yes I made the point simply for ID purposes, enjoy every one getting involved. Thanks XE, spread the word, DragBoss you tube channel. 👍
Dude you really should be starting with an aftermarket block for this build so all the oiling, core shift and bottom end strength issues are solved right out of the box. I means whats a world industries or ford motorsport block worth? 1500? 2K? I mean do a patreon and charge every member 1 dollar. If even only a quarter of people sign up, theres your money right there. Gotta approach these things looking at the big picture and spending this small amount in the grand scheme is gonna save you more time and money than pretty much any other mod. Keep plugging away. Tom from Oz
Thanks Tom from Down under, I can dig what your saying for sure. But I am old school and want to try and recreate as a much as I can of the old pro stock mill. If I used an aftermarket block then I would have a Clevor, won’t work for me. For my last ultimate Cleveland, will use my TrackBoss afternoon aluminum Cleveland block. Your right though, if everyone chipped in a few bucks, these bucket list of engines would be built way faster. If I was subscribing, I would have no problem throwing in 10-20 bucks to see things move right along. Just don’t want people to think I’m out there for looking for a handout. Using an old stock block, with also help others to see and build their Cleveland’s to Whatever degree they feel they need. Thanks for watching and please to my channel. Stay tuned
I couldn't remember the series numbers. I call a Cleveland, a Cleveland, a Windsor, a Windsor, and a 289/302 a small block. I've worked on FE's(Ford Edsel), 429's, Y-block's, and I owned a 1949 Merc Flathead(it was in my 40 Ford coupe)! It's like people saying Pontiac Big Block! LOL. The 347-455, Pontiac's, are all the same physical size! Cool series.
You get it. I was not saying to classify by physical size, and specs, just the name. I appreciate you getting in here and hanging out, look around, lots to see. Please subscribe, and share with your friends to help me build this Chanel.
Thank you very much, been arguing with these new comers on the small block big block. You never heard that in the Ford blocks just the chevys back in the day, it's just the millennium kids started this.
Thanks Dennis. Nothing to argue about I say, people agree or disagree. Nothing to waste time on. Need to waste time on getting the most from your Cleveland combination or any engine for that matter. It’s the little things that make the difference. Thanks for watching and contributing to my channel. Please like and share
I'm 68 & have been a true Ford fan for 50 years. Both NASCAR & drag racing. I'm guilty of always thinking the 351's were considered small block & the 429/460 big blocks. I know they were classified the 335/385. Just like the FE's series. The list of famous Ford racers,from Stock to T/F is as long as my arm,but Mr. Glidden has always been my favorite. I went to the US NATIONALS for many years,got to see Dyno,G&R & "MAD DOG" win many titles there! Loved watching all the classes with Ford powered engines! NHRA/IHRA/AHRA, ah the good old days! Now NHRA P/S is only Chevys, not interested in the least! This is your first video I've seen. I subscribed! You mentioned you & your wife having P/S 's. Do you compete in NHRA or??? Sorry for this being so long, but like I said,I'm a huge Ford fan! Good luck to you & everyone else who races with Ford power! Long Live Fast Fords!
Thanks Robert for subscribing. It must have been awesome to be there in real life, to experience the sights, sounds, and smells. To see those cars run must have been unbelievable for sure. I only got to see them on tv, Diamond P, was my exposure. Still love watching it today. Yes maybe a little technical on the name, but it got people thinking and sharing their opinions. One of my goals is to have both my wife and I build 2 pro stock, high port Cleveland’s and dyno test and see what changes intakes and carbs have. My wife’s 354ci, just came in, and is sitting in fastenal. I need to pick it up. I will make a video on this and the specs of the motor. Glad your here. And stay tuned, cause there is so much more. Loading next video with famed Australian engine builder and racer Trickie Triccas. His view on the cleveland oiling. Thanks again Robert
i have a clevo XE192540 4 bolt mains with thicker cylinder walls and better steel , to go in a 1984 XE FALCON panel van , i enjoy your talks mate cheers , in Australia the blocks are called "Nascar pillow blocks"
Have one myself Phillip. Will be working on mine in the near future. Glad your here and enjoying my channel. Stay tuned as there is so much more in store
@@panelvanman7671 have an Xe block, but.030, mine is going to be standard bore, 3.400 crank, have the pistons you see there. Be 340ci, wife will have a 354ci one. Early blocks.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland mine is the 1982 run of 300 blocks , still standard bore 4 bolt , they garnish quite a princely sum over here 4-5 thousand dollars Australian for a standard bore , and its a piece of ford racing history to boot
Looks like I’m on borrowed time....408 Cleveland dyno 604hp & 552trq at the crank. No block fill or oil modifications besides using a 9qt pan. Street motor with 600-700 miles. Ran 10.38 going through traps at 7100 in a 3100 pound Maverick
Truthfully you are. I had a 385, that dynoed, at 668hp that ran best of 9.99, but go through at 8k, but at 3295 lbs. I also drove it on the street. Lasted 5 years of pounding, your making good power but your rpm range is in a great place. Without fill slowly loose ring seal and bores will become oblong. Jake I say roll with and enjoy, changes on next build. Thanks for watching and commenting. Please like 👍 and subscribe.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thanks, I think I could live with getting 5 or so years out of the block. What are your thoughts on the aftermarket blocks? Also, I noticed location pin says Sandusky...is that where you’re out of?
Ok small block implies 4.5 or less bore spacing, big block implies greater than 4.5 bore spacing. Same goes for every manufacturer. Ford made multiple small blocks and still does. Its a semantics argument. Important bit the Windsor, Cleveland, and M engines all share a bore space & headbolt pattern... but not much else.
Exactly semantics. It gets people thinking. In reality Ford delineated engine series to identify and differentiate from 289/302351w engines. You can also bolt a Cleveland head of a LS Chevy block😳. Thanks for commenting and contributing to my channel. Please subscribe and stay tuned
Sorry buddy that makes no sense , I think a 351 Cleveland and 302 Cleveland is a small block but bore spacing does not mean big or small block , my point being a Small Block Oldsmobile 403 ci even a 260 ci Oldsmobile has 4.625 inch bore spacing , the same as the 400, 425 and 455 big blocks as for Ford the new 445 ci Godzilla Small Block has a 4.55 inch bore spacing .
@JosephCowen-ru7up what makes no sense is the engine was never called a small block by Ford. It was the 335 series, which was supposed to be between the 302 and the 390. Agree the other engines and info you provided Joe
@@DragBoss351Cleveland there is much about the Cleveland that is different , but ford made so many different engines , I think it was in the early 1970s they had four engines of different designations the exact same size and bore X stroke ! The 351w, 351c, 351m and 352fe there must have been a big market for this size engine , the other thing , Im in Australia and don't see a lot of US engines , when I was a kid no one wanted 302 Clevelands in Ozland , so if you had one all you were doing was trying to find a 351 C , every wrecker had piles of used 302c motors , prob 10 years later they realised the 302 C closed chamber 2v heads ( same head used on four barrel 302c motors) was a very good high comp head , good port flow and speed , with the addition of US 4v valves and simple pocket porting the are very good , also the 302c has. six inch beefy rods standard , now you can still find 302c in wreckers but out in the country .
Me too. Thanks for watching and stopping by. Please explore my channel and see what you can find. Don’t forget to subscribe and like. Way more in store
Good to know, but no need to discuss in general, makes no difference to the ports or combustion chamber. Glad your into it. Thanks for watching. Don’t forget to subscribe
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Benny Gatt top fueled the Clevo extensively, up against Victor Bray in a Keith Black Hemi, sure he was out gunned, but only by micro seconds.. Find out what he did with the 351 Clevo.
Tim, Loved the newest video. You won’t ever get an argument from me, that’s for sure ! Please corect me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think you’ve ever done a video on solid roller camshafts (specifically for drag racing a Cleveland). While I’m at it, what about one strictly on shaft rockers ? I know you are more than likely busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest right now, just saying. I would really like to see that. I think that would really help me on mine, as well as other guys.
Hey Jimmy, I have talked about the solid rollers I have used in the past, so can reiterate in a more condensed version. I have never used shaft rockers, although I would like too, on TrackBoss build. I did a vid on set up on yella terra, and will will go over it again on my mid lift theory vid. Yes I am busy as you said, hopefully can keep rolling forward and bring more to you guys, thanks for asking and helping me build my channel my friend.
Respect Glidden,! Saw a post while back on a block that came up on Mustang forum Facebook, block had no casting identification, I think they figure out it was a 351 Windsor from the heads, but there was speculation the block something special, a first look thought it was a industrial engine of some kind, everyone else was saying 351M, M engines were notorious for being poor casting, with the later ones being stronger 76 later I believe. But getting back to the block with no casting identification, I’m certain that some of those molds were sold off at the factory, perhaps independently made blocks made there way into industrial applications in this manner, hot rod high nickel block for marine, or heavy duty use?
Yes Rusty is a great guy for sure. Thanks for all the time you took to help build my channel. You never know, seen some fe and 351m water generator engines. Thanks for watching
These Cleveland videos always forget the longest produced Cleveland the 302 Cleveland produced from 1975 to 1984/5 , best heads closed chamber 2V on all 2 barrel and 4 barrel engines !
@@DragBoss351Cleveland thanks mate, they were sooo common here, it was the standard V8 for Ford , the 351 C was an option . At least you know they exist , most US people have big arguments about the 302 Clevelands existence , they make good power for a five litre or as they were badged here in Oz , a 4.9 litre. I always wondered what would have happened if Ford had gorn down GM Holden's route and multi point injected the Clevelands ? Clevelands were still available in Aussie Ford's in 1984/5 model year . If you want to see a real oddball Ford Motor look up the 351 that Ford produced in OZ back in 1973 , it was a prototype when Ford OZ was deciding to build their own V8 in Oz , the 4V Cleveland was a bit over the top for everyday cars , so Ford played around with different combinations of heads and blocks , anyhoo , Ford Oz made and ran on the dyno and in cars a 351 that was a 351 Cleveland block and 351 Windsor heads with a factory cast iron intake to suit ! It's a strange combination and very different Ford 351 C/W probably the rarest 351 ever , they produced 20 complete motors for evaluation , then finally went with casting our own 302/351 C motors and 2V style Open and Closed Chamber heads.
The "M" and 2 BBL Cleveland heads are different castings. The roof of the exhaust port in a C head, specifically around the guide boss, looks like any typical port. The M port has a shelf filling the roof of the port, god knows how it killed flow. It's been years since I compared the 2 castings side by side, but you can't miss the difference (in the exhaust port) between the two. To my recollection, the 351/400 was never offered with a 4 BBL carb, and the only difference between the two is the crank and the pistons. (1/4" taller compression height in the 351M) Cool video.
Glad your into it. Yes there are definitely differences. It the attention to detail that makes the difference, in watching the video or building your own Mill. Yes crank and pistons are the difference between 351m and 400. I misspoke on the video. Cool your here, thanks for the support. Please like.
Yes the lump In, 351M-400, 2V heads, is absolutely there. D5------, or newer heads, not desirable. May neighbor in '80, bolted on early 70-71 quench heads(4V) on his almost new 1979 LTD two. 351M. Bolted the quench heads on, stock 2V intake, and exhaust manifolds. Yes huge port mismatched. But it definitely raised C.R. Performance was great!! Could not believe it!
The Australian 351 Four Barrel engine used the 2V style head in open chamber , the best heads are 302 Cleveland Closed Chamber 2V style with us 4v valves on a 351 or 400 you get between 10.5 to 11.5 compression .
I just picked up a 69 Torino (3 on the tree), with a 351c. I'm looking to learn more about this engine. Common issues - pro's and con's alike. Any advice you would have I would find very valuable. I'm trying to jump into light speed, so I'm looking to cruise and dependability is my goal as I intend to enjoy during the spring, summer, and fall months. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you give.
George, sounds like you have a winning combination. It’s tough to give any advice without a lot of information. But I will tell you this. If you’re not going to turn over 6800 you do not need to make any changes to the oiling system. There are a ton of videos talking about the cleveland oil system, look through my channel there’s a bunch of videos on building the Cleveland, Oiling system issues. Let me know what you think
Thank you, I've subscribed since watching your video. It's made it this far with the original engine/transmission combination. I plan on restoring it and driving it as much as possible 👍
Alan Moffit here in Australia raced a Kar Kraft Trans Am Mustang 302 in the sixties, it won about 100 races from 150 and has a pretty amazing history, look him up!
I have all kinds of different names. I think I’ve had mine for two years, it’s still at the machine shop, only been there 6 months. Heads are done and sending intake.
My class says I can only use cast iron block and heads. Been searching for a set of Aussies to set on top of a zero deck but my machine shop champhered the crank too much for my liking. He likes to build Chevy engines and he did the crank way too much for my liking.
Thank you for the info I just picked up a 99 gt I'm planning on putting a 351clevland out of a 70 mach 1 that I have had on my shop floor for the past 25 years lol but it ran fine when I pulled it out of the car
Yes I'm going to go completely through it it still has the original 2 barrel intake I want to of course go to a 4 barrel and find headers to fit that body. I made sure that I subscribed to your channel keep the info coming thanks bro
Also the last of the ozzy blokes with the GF casting at the back have thinker cylinders and webbing but dont use a ozzy crank, they are soft but the rods are good. Mike
Mike won’t have to worry too much around here, none of those parts here. Although I do have and XE with GF symbol in the back, going to have to figure out what to do with it.
Hey Tim Some blokes just love debating,i dont argue with guys like that,like you said mate keep doing and using what works.Another thing Tim i dont know why these block fellas pouring these high dollar blocks,why dont just copy a 192540 block and bring it out a realistic price,Thats the block i have used for the last 25 years,if it works keep useing it
I agree with bringing back iron, but having a difficult time keeping the cylinders and water jacket stable. Not many guys going to dump big money in an aluminum block, as it is a large investment. In reality I was more happy running 10.0s with no work but load car, race, unload and repeat. Do what works for you, my key phrase.....stay tuned
New to the Cleveland! I'm running one in my 66 cobra replica very mild at the moment ! But I'm looking at going with the trick flow 190 heads I think it is for the heads and single plane intake with my 750 dp hope to have a strong reliable Cleveland
Jason in that car even a mild cleveland will be insane. They weigh nothing, and with a stick. Hang on. Just changing the heads will lighten it up at least 50lbs. Don’t know much about those heads, but you don’t need a lot of port for your goal. With that combo think you’re going to have a killer combo, keep cam in the 225-238 range at .050. Keep your rpm under 7k should be fine, unless oil mods
@@culbycars your welcome. Just think how fast that would be be. By the time you hit 4th or 5th gear now your doing 150-160 ish with the right gear. Even in the street wind it to 6500 and see how fast it is. Plenty
Thanks Steve, may a little strong I. Some parts, but to get people thinking and comprehending. That’s is what makes some faster than others. Appreciate your FB page, thanks for letting me post there. Don’t forget to to like 👍
No doubt Dave, that’s why I want to keep the Cleveland alive. Let’s see what it can do. Appreciate the time you took to comment. Please like and subscribe
Good information and what do you do with your old blocks when you upgrade to new aluminum ones? I could use a good starting foundation for my car and I will never be running 8500 like you but what I could do with your old one, for me is like going from a four cylinder to a real Cleveland is just a mind blowing thought for me. 6k would be a great dream for me to have a real solid piece. Great evening and I hope you have a great week coming up. Keep it coming, I love watching and learning more every time I listen. Take care and be safe.
I have replaced a couple 302s with 351 Clevelands and everything bolted right up except the down pipes on the exhaust. I also had a 1978 F150 4X4 that came factory with a 351m. My buddy that owned the truck before me took that out and installed a 400 for more towing power. I bought the truck and installed a 460. Bolted right up to the C6 auto. Had to make motor mounts and had to slide the trans and transfer case back about an inch for the motor mounts to line up to the perch. The rear cross member was already slotted from factory to do this. So i call the Cleveland a small block because of its bell housing bolt pattern and the 351m/400 big block for the same reason. The 351 windsor is a small block and has a taller deck hight then the Cleveland.
I have given quite a few away. I usually would just start over and out the used one in the corner. I only have 3-4 left. I told you I had one for you, you would be winding that out to the max. Don’t forget to like 👍
@@robertbrewster9013 you can call it what you like. No worries, I just you to get the most out of your 335 series engines. Appreciate the comments and helping me build my channel. Please like 👍 and share.
John this is an interesting observation. Shops are encouraging customers with old Iron engine's in them to upgrade to newer engines. It has been good. I have a good collection of Cleveland heads because of it.
DragBoss Tim you gotta love girls. You think you gott'em in the garage and then you get them a bunny and its all over with hahahaha. I know how that goes. Good info man. What is crazy are the Pontiac and Buick engines. 326-455 and all with the same blocks. Tell me that's not simple living. I cant wait to get to the track to try out your old shocks on my Cat. So have you ever cleaned up those Thrush side pipes I traded you?
Thanks my friend. I could not remember if it was olds or Pontiac. Good point for sure. Yes they pretty much gave up the garage, so far. Hopefully finish up my pv clearance vid today. I have not messed with them, but may send to my buddy Scott miller who owns aluminew, they would come out factory appearing. Stay tuned
@@billprice73 I know the individual company blocks are actually different. Not my point. Point was each of these company's used the same block to make a small displacement aka small block and big displacement aka big block. Made it simple instead of physically different sized engines and no different motor mounts and bell housings to mess with.
Just wanted to clarify something for you about the 351m and 400s, the rods are the same, they use different cranks and pistons with a different compression height. But great video!
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Not a problem, and not tryin to pick your video apart I just happen to be building a 408 from a 351m using the 400 crank, and pistons with a .030" overbore! Also I was pretty impressed with the fact when bringing up the 351m and 400s you didn't jump on the bandwagon of oh it's just a boat anchor because so many fail to recognize the potential they have. In stock form they were dogs thanks to fords terrible decision on cam timing and the low compression, but deck the block, plane the heads, and toss in a boss 351 cam and you end up with a stout performer!
@@agent_00c45 no worries whatsoever. You are so right, just a big cleveland. My buddy races a 438 based on that block. He has a Cougar, with ur19 and it is a few videos back, check it out
1.628 PCH is enormous, and with a 5.855 rod, - a 3.430 stroke gives (with 0.000 pin offset) a 9.198 assembly height @ TDC, and a ~1.707:1 rl/s ratio. - a 3.400 stroke gives (with 0.000 pin offset) a 9.183 assembly height @ TDC, and a ~1.722:1 rl/s ratio. As always, there's an engineering tradeoff to be made, but I think if the block can handle the strain, the recip assembly parameters should be mostly decided along this tree: 1) What is the maximum bore that my heads will support? Piston crown design can improve this number, depending on lots of variables, so there's nothing inherently wrong with using a smaller bore than you could have, unless you run into shrouding problems (or worse). In any particular block, a smaller bore will have a thicker cylinder wall -- which means the block is stronger and more rigid, but simultaneously also (for the people who want to pick at nits) technically heavier. 2) What is the shortest compression height that I can use? The answer isn't always obvious: the proper wristpin diameter is correlated to bore size: use too small a diameter and it doesn't matter that the pin doesn't bend: the piston will bend around it -- which is not exactly optimal. Most people are using SBC pins (0.927 or 0.930) in big-bore SBFs, but after 4.125, I start thinking I want a bigger pin. Ring stack along the lines of 1.0-1.2mm for the top and second rings, 3mm for the oil ring. 3) What is the longest stroke I can use? Again, the answer isn't always obvious: the SBC 400 came stock with a 5.565 rod length and a 3.750 stroke (1.484:1 rl/s) so you can go shorter than 1.500 on the rl/s ratio -- and Kaase recommends rod length be 2 inches greater than stroke, and since he's built plent of 6.000-stroke "mountain motors," it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize that a 1.33-ish rl/s will work pretty effectively with the right components. I'm pretty sure that there are people that have built combos with rl/s ratios in the 1.250-1.280-ish range, but I don't remember specific examples; I do recall a BBF tractor-pull engine that had a 13-inch deck (with plates, sleeves) and a 6.250 stroke with an 8.200 or an 8.250 rod (1.312:1 or 1.320:1); the tall piston in that case was to help resist piston distortion under the extreme pressures and temps of pulling. You're not in danger of this with the sort of combo that you intend to run, but just FYI to anyone having read this far: (a) different piston manufacturers use different "check height" points relative to the wristpin centerline; and (b) the bottoms of cylinder bores usually feature a sort of "flare" or de-burring relief. The increased-diameter portion at the bottom of that bore does not count in the true length of the cylinder: for what I'm about to describe, it's the same as if it had been lopped off. If the check height point drops below the true bottom of the cylinder, the piston will wobble in the bore and if you're extremely lucky, it'll only cost you some badly-scuffed skirts: it can ruin your engine in a heartbeat. Additionally, I don't like the centerline of the wristpin to drop below the true bottom of the cylinder. To find out where the centerline of the wristpin is going to be @ BDC, relative to the crankshaft centerline, subtract half the length of the stroke from the rod length (remembering that rod length is always measured between the centerlines of the rod's wristpin bore and the rod's crankpin bore). I know *you* know that, but I didn't want someone in the comments saying they measured over the balancing pads and now everything doesn't fit, or something similarly ridiculous. 4) Anyway, decide where you want the crown of the piston to be @ TDC; this will be determined largely by two elements: (a) clearances between the piston crown and the head and valves; and (b) the static compression ratio you want to use, which will itself be almost entirely determined by the anti-knock and burn characteristics of whatever you're using for fuel. When I refer to fuel, I mean that in the sense that fuel is the reductive component in an oxidation-reduction reaction: it's the thing that gets burned in the presence of the oxidizer. Generally speaking, the oxidizer in nearly every RICE (reciprocating, internal-combustion engine) is air; sometimes to air is added an agent such as nitrous oxide. Common fuels used are alcohols and gasolines; these are occasionally blended with each other, with or without the addition of other substances that may be described either as an additive (such as an "injector cleaner," and "octane booster," etc) or another fuel (which itself may be a blend, an example of which is "model airplane fuel" that is sometimes added because it is available in blends containing a relatively high fraction of nitromethane, and it can be discretely stored without alerting one's racing buddies to the fact). The downside to nitromethane is that even a small amount added to an OE fuel system will destroy it in a matter of minutes -- so unless you're planning on replacing the entire fuel system from tank to intake after 1 or *maybe* 2 passes, or you've built and installed a complete nitro-compatible fuel system, don't even try using that. You really don't want to burn-down your car, and if the fire happens while you're zipping along at 160-or-so, you may not be able to get out before the flames decide to buddy-up to you in the cockpit. That's not the sort of thing I have in mind when I think of "heart-warming" friendships. Ethanol is a particular type of alcohol having the chemical formula C2H5(OH); methanol is a particular type of alcohol having the chemical formula CH3(OH). I could elaborate on those and get into subspecies, but that's beyond the scope of what normal people need to worry about outside a laboratory. Ethanol and methanol have different characteristics when used as fuels. By law, in the USA, ethanol used as a motor fuel must be "denatured" (blended with something to make it unfit for human consumption); the IRS -- in particular, the BATFE -- regulates this, but it kinda makes me think there's some squirrels in our government when the same government that insists firearms must be taken away from people because they might be used to hurt someone, also demands that we poison what could otherwise be beverage alcohol. I'm not advocating that people drink alcohol; I don't, but I recognize that others do. And I'm not judging: I once met a family that made orange wine; I can't remember how to get in touch with them, and it's been well over 50 years since I last saw them, but they were proud of their product and it would have been extremely rude for my family to have not sampled a taste (it was *just* a taste -- between maybe 5cc and 10cc). I recall that it was as smooth as water but also very sweet; if they're still alive and making wine, I think I might someday want to buy a bottle and sip on it now and again as I age and reminisce; I don't think I'd want a whole glass at once, but for me, it isn't about the alcohol. My point was that kids today seem far more nosy than when I was a wee lad -- or maybe they're just undisciplined; regardless, there seems to be a behavioral pandemic among children, caused and exacerbated by "parents" who fail to *be* parents (being a biological donor doesn't make someone a mom or a dad), in which meddling children get into things they ought not, often with dire consequence -- and I've met far too many "adults" who either ignore or deliberately violate the warnings on labels, so I don't really think that it's a labeling issue: they pick locks and do other things; there's no way to stay ahead of them: you've got to start early and teach them to want to do right and to not want to do wrong. But should the kid pay for the failure of its parents? I mean, you don't want a kid getting into it either way, but when the side effect on one end is a hangover and on the other end is permanent blindness -- I think the less-poisonous route is better. JMO. YMMV. Gasoline is a chemical mixture; not a chemical substance. There are different gasolines, and different blends have not only different AKI numbers but also different burn characteristics. All AKI grades of gasoline sold have the same approximate Btu content: it fluctuates a little, but there's very much more variation from summer to winter blends in the USA, than there is difference between the various AKI grades. In naturally aspirated engines, higher AKI values do not necessarily translate to better performance. Also under "b" (remember the original topic?) -- after the fuel's AKI is the cylinder's bore diameter, closely followed by the combustion chamber design (not just the space in the head: the piston and the quench volume shapes also count), then the rl/s ratio. All these things interact, so the number of potential outcomes is theoretically infinitely large, although in the end, these can generally be categorized as "won," "placed," "finished," "DNF," and "DNS." Of those, "DNF" is probably the most expensive.
Wowser man, you really went to town on this, thank you so much. I agree on using bigger pins, want them to not flex, also make sure they will be lubed when using a vacuum pump. I do not want any heart warming friendships/fire. We have similar thoughts on kids. My feeling is that if there is no discipline from the get go, then your already behind the 8 ball. In my case, I don't drink ETOH, it have been 12 years this month. I would have never been the Dad I am, if I was drinking. To me kids need that guidance and interaction with parents. I see many just giving then electronics to keep them busy, they are very selfish. Kids need to learn all the things they teach them in school, how to have a garden, how to raise chickens, what trees are what, how to build a fire, and shoot a gun safely. These are the things that my parents taught me. What is right, and what is wrong. How to deal with injury, and pain. Be able to survive. I appreciate your technical discussion on strokers, these are the topics and details that no one talks about. Thanks for breaking it down for us to have a better understanding. Stay tuned my friend, way more in store.
☑️ Yep, since as far back as the mid 80s, I heard about, and even READ articles referring to the "351M-400". So I always assumed it was "a thing". Obviously not! Next, I guess you're going to try telling me that's NOT a factory/stock "265-289-302" engine in my 1984 Ford Escort! 😁
Yes me too. That is why I wanted to clarify, nothing that needs time wasted on. Now let’s get back to that small block ford in the escort, 🤔. Stay tuned, appreciate the comments
G’Day from the land down under 🇦🇺🇦🇺. May I ask what make and model those alloy heads were on the engine behind you in this video. Cheers Bloke, Andavagoodweekend 👍😎👍
Thanks mate. Those are Ford A3 heads, the first Ford aluminum Motorsport heads. Basically a filled and high ported iron 4v In aluminum.stay cool 😎 and stay tuned to DragBoss Garage
Michael it sure is. You are most welcome. I plan on filling a block for up coming build, just my time is at a premium right now. Need to order some block fill too.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland i know what you mean, everyone is bissy, but will be good to see when you get to it. iv never done it before. Also talking about the oil system, a lot of clevo,s with hydraulic lifters will get ticy lifters on the left side after a good rev, this is a sign. i thought thats because the left side gets the oil last, im actualy thinking about opening the rear crossover a bit and useing the bypass tube. Because of this tic, people here in ozz in the day would warmup the engine at idle for ages, thus killing the bottem end with crank endfloat and rigging the cylinders. Its bit of a myth. I try to tell doods, once you,v got oil presure give it a rev or two and throw the rods strait n suff. Know one agree,s. I think idleing is the bigest killer of a V8.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland OW, One ather thing, i think only haveing two main oil galeries could be a good thing also. Their is less distance for the oil to travel. And blocking the front 1/2 passage is a muct now that you mentioned it, even for a mild build. Have a nice day Tim.
@@michaelgiglio1571 I have never ran juice lifters. To me I like to warm up to 160 and shut off and let heat soak a bit before I go blasting it. I don’t like them idling long, but that is me. Lots of vids on the way so glad your here and enjoying the channel.
@@michaelgiglio1571 thank you. I think biggest thing is to clean up major easy to get to galleys, smooth out and make better radius and turns. You have a better night talk to you.
well there you go. learn something new every day. thanks. i'm a big clevo fan and plan to build a monster Cleveland. you might know more than me about Clevelands, so maybe you can help? i was told put main stud girdles to help stop them damaging the mains due to cap walk? i think that's what they called it? do you know if i was lied to? BTW just for a laugh. my dog is called cleveland. @@JosephCowen-ru7up
One thing that bothers me with car guys. They don't even know about the marine and industrial side of their favorite engine makers. How many Ford fans know Ford used D00E 1970 351W heads on marine 302's thru 1976? That's right, 351W heads on a 302 from the factory. Mine were cast Oct '75. Reside on my 302 in my '83 Ranger 4x4. 30 years in the marine business as a mechanic, it is a parallel universe. Sadly, there were no 335 marine engines
Dave O, I know. I am one, never was really into boats, but have learned a lot of new things, like a 429 head oh a 4cyl Ford, wow. Thanks for being here, I appreciate it man
I always had more wear on the 3/7 journal even with restrictiors between the crank & cam but i just changed them once a year. I kick big chevys in their pride with these little engines when i was a kid back in the 70s. My boss runs a 15 to 1 boss 302 on the dirt and laps the field of chevy big blocks. It is hilarious. It sounds different from anything else and turns 10,000 lap after lap. Everyone thinks he cheats.
That’s what I’m talking about, kicking As* and taking names. Cool to hear this. Really never had that many issues with oil, but not running round and round.
love drag boss info.very good.i had a 4v closed chamber 351c in my 85 mustang from 1991 to 2000.now same enging will be going in my 90 mustang after being put away for 21 years.current project.but the whole small block thing is not very important the engine just performes.but the 1994 motorsport svo catalog page 107.lists 351c as a small block?what gives.keep up the good work.
Anthony, what gives is that it all leads back to Cleveland’s and drag racing, so much more. So glad you have had great luck with cleveland keep your project going forward and enjoy the channel. Don’t forget to subscribe
@@chuckhodges5584 I would have to check, Chuck, but pretty sure I don't. Glad your here. What are you building? Make sure you subscribe, way more to come.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 1965 rambler american,9 inch 430 gear,aod trans. M code ,complete comp roller set-up. It's my rat rod,had it running but want to upgrade. Always loved those Cleveland's. I've got a 68 shelby GT 500 that I got in high school in 1975.sure enjoy all that old pro stock stuff,thanks. Chuck
@@chuckhodges5584 Thanks Chuck, for taking the time to share with us your plans, and Shelby Mustang. I had a 66 rambler, with the 199, and 3 on the tree. They sure are light, be deadly fast with a Cleveland... Thanks Chuck, more in store.
After owning and building Cleveland's for over 40 years early Cleveland's are now 50 years old & are all past there use buy date rust & corrosion in the water galleries adding to the thin cylinder wall thickness plus most have been bored 30th there now only good for coffee tables the only decent Australian block is the XD & XE block commonly known as a pillow block due to the extra metal in the casting between the welsh plugs if your lucky enough to find a standard bore BUT if you want to build a big a big horsepower Cleveland 600 to 900hp Dart block is the only option & build a Clevour Competition engines or Dandy engines in Victoria Australia build the best motors in Australia.
I get it. You can always sleeve if needed. Have a few XE blocks. I do ok hp wise with my old 50+ year old Cleveland’s. Not going to build a Windsor. I know Frank Marchese from Dandy, he and I did a live chat together. Something in the works, stay tuned.
I'd call the Cleveland a small block because the 302 has a shorter deck hight than every other American v8 i would classify the 302 as an economy motor . But its really just semantics
I probably will as I may need to start with a fresh block for my pro stock build, if I use this aluminum rods and pistons I have . Be a good vid for all thanks for the suggestion, just comes down to time frame, won’t be for a while, need to get that 409 done and too the dyno. I appreciate you taking the time and watching my channel. Don’t forget to like 👍 and stay tuned
Enjoy watching. I have a question , I have built a few 351c,now I am down to one that has open chamber 4 bbl. heads. If I use a dome piston with those would that be about the same as closed chamber heads with flat top pistons? Thanks for an answer.
You just have to try it and see what happens. Some places have better gas. So could be in your favor. But I would at least have 3 different cams to use and experiment with.
I have a 4v head question. Mine have pedestals,i can't afford to have them converted by the machine shop. I've seen the conversion kit from crane,would a stud girdle make the conversion studs more stable and stronger?
Thank you so much for clearing up some of these myths Tim. Trying to spread the word to get people to watch very informative. Some of the constant back and forth on the forums does get overwhelming. Keep up the great work.
Apparently the time you took to spread the word. More cool info in the works. Shed some more light, thanks for the kind words my friend.
I'm also impressed with how many replys you make to comments.
I saw comments on the FE.
Ford engine. Ford Edsel. As far as I know there is not a definitive answer on that.
On high output oil pumps. I guess if you're not seeing the bearings get oil washed, distributor gear or cam gear wearing out, or breaking a oil pump drive. It's not too much flow or pressure.
Of course I have read many articles from builders that say it could rob power being a parasitic load.
Great videos. You have passion for that mid size mighty Ford and it shows.
Your welcome Eddie. I try and answer all comments. I see other channels and the subs are not even recognized. I guess if they are so big, that stops. That is what makes my channel different, I want you to be there bs ing with me in the DragBoss garage. The oiling mods are basically common fluid flow sense, eliminate strictures and improve. I have not experienced those issues, lucky or prepared. Appreciate you taking the time to comment and help me build my channel. Stay tuned, way more in store
Hello Tim , love your passion . I always loved the Cleveland and still do. 30 years ago i had a 351 Cleveland in a Australian Ford Fairmont, it was mild.Car weighed 3520lbs reved it to 7400rpm hydraulic isky cam 10.5 comp , std rods Holley street 2v intake very reliable done thousands of klms . Car ran 13.00 at 107mph 30 years ago , remember this was a street car .Anyway keep it up .
Thank you Peter from down under, so glad you made it. Your Fairmount sounds like a great street car, 13s is fast, and 30 years ago, even faster. I appreciate you watching and taking the time to share your experience with the ole Cleveland. Thanks and please 👍 and subscribe
No BS & straight to the point. Love your honesty brother. God Bless ya. Got 82 400m stock RV engine. 75k miles. I'm wanting to to build a TMeyer version 412 hp 500tq for 85 f250 XLTLariet 4sp 4x4. Although a 5 or 6 sp manual be a bit sweeter
Rock with it Austin. That could be a monster right there. You will be shredding the pavement at will. Stay tuned
I'm a firm believer in Kenne-Bell. Jim Bell to be exact. He is a engine Engineer. He made this mini news paper things called Kenne-Bell news letter Buick news. One of the best articles he wrote and did alot of testing on? Oil pressure and volume. It's about having the right volume of oil to a certain pressure. Look at a Dry sump pump. They don't vary in pressure or volume but constant pressure to a certain volume. Deburring the oiling system is something every should really think about. Look in to Jack Roush back when he was campaigning Mark Martin. Oil control was his number one priority. He controlled every aspect of oil, from pressure to volume to where it drained at. I love this video because it explains alot.
Thanks so much for seeing what I was trying to explain. You are so right, you can improve the oil system and make them scream. I remember those guys, big power adder contributors. Dry sump is the ultimate, but the old Cleveland oil system can work, with some work. Glad your into it. Please like 👍 and subscribe
I'm a ford nut from Australia love ha content awesome.thankyou
Glad your into it. Thanks for watching please subscribe and share with your mates. Stay tuned for more
Dick jhonson racing use to lengthen the drain back holes in the lifter Valley its a another trick that might be worth mentioning. This was used on a falcon that weighed 1.45 tone and did Bathurst 1000 and the blocks never failed. The biggest issues Australian Turing car drivers had with Cleveland's was oil surge caused having a front sump with only 4 litre capacity ( bigger sump with baffling fixed that). Valve springs and rocker arms past 7 thousands was an issue but more of a problem of that time ( spring technology and the change in rules allowing roller rockers be fitted fixed that issue) and last but not least over heating which was fixed with better and bigger radiators and and making shore all air was bleed out of the cooling system ( some people put air bleeds at high point on front of both heads) as for blocks failing and cracking and splitting never happened they made anywhere from 400 hp to 550 hp lugging around a cars that weigh 1300 kg to 1600 kg spinning from 6500 to 7500 rpm on sprint races to endurance races using 2 or 4 bolt mains never a failed block so people saying there week is just bull shit. Keep it cooled and we'll oiled and it will go hard all day which is no different from any other American/Australian V8
I have seen that trick too, on some other blocks pics from down under. Thanks so much for the tip, and taking the time to tell us your real life experience, makes a difference. Those blocks do hold up well just need some tlc in the right places. Sounds you were down with it at Bathhurst. There are couple of vids, with great in car footage, and you see the gauges and hear the screaming cleveland. Thanks for taking the time for us.
Cleveland's are 5L sump capacity not 4..
The Australian blocks are thicker casting castings too, which can be a weight penalty or a durability positive !
@Hitman-ds1ei are you sure about that? XE blocks may be.
Now I can not wait for your new pro line of videos, old time racers made stuff work kids couldn't imagine how to do with the old stuff because they just buy and bolt today. So much good information on your platform.
Thanks John, you are so right. No just bolt and go, need to do some thinking and planning. Learn from experience not ordering out of a catalog. Appreciate the comments
Agreed. In the late 70's I would mix and match parts on a Cleveland and see how it ran. One thing I found Cleveland really likes Windsor rods and 302 pistons.
Awesome video, I've always been a huge Cleveland fan!! I'm actually building a 70 Torino GT Convertible right now with a 4bbl Cleveland. It's great to clear up all the myths about this engine. When it comes to a Cleveland there are plenty.
thank you Uncle John, glad your here, sorry i missed this comment. Hope the Torino is running well.
True. To dot or not.
@@cammontreuil7509 That is the question.
I bought 3 parts cars, all Torino’s, a few years ago and found out 2 of them had Cleveland’s and one had the 429 cj. All need work, body panels and some cosmetics. But, all are worth it for sure. Guy wanted them out of the farmyard because the municipality were busting his hump over the mess. All diamonds in the rough, glad I happened to be driving by the place on my way to the city. Stuffs getting rarer all the time. I wish Ford would’ve made the Cleveland more years than they did. One of the best engines they ever made
I agree with you on the Cleveland, definitely my favorite engine. It does sound like you got some good parts, and they don’t make them anymore. I love Torinos. I think 72-3 my favorite years. so I do the same thing if I can catch something good. Try to slow down on buying parts and use them all in builds. Thanks for sharing with me Ryan and DragBoss Garage.
When you have had a hard day working and you love cars...your channel is awesome. I love to prop up my feet and watch anything on cars...especially engine work.
I'd love to see anything on shelby gt. (Hint Hint). 😉
Thank so much. Glad your into it. See what we can find Shelby, stay tuned.
Great video. Back in the early 1970s here in Australia, they raced the GT Falcons with the 351 C. Main issue was the small factory sump and the sticky race tyres. Lots of engines died due to surge. The real issue was with the 4.5 litre sump, at 6,000 rpm there was only 2 litres or so in the sump...the rest was up high.
Teams were eventually allowed to run a dry sump system which fixed a lot of issues. Great to watch all the interesting things about the Cleveland.
Mike, learned that 40 years ago. They need a 9 qt sump and majority of oiling issues gone. No one does this, they put in a 6-7 qt pan and think good to go. Yes have thought about external wet sump
@@DragBoss351Cleveland in Australia too. G'day bro. to help Ford fix the oiling problems, there are some GTHO Phase 3 Clevelands that had a sump with protrusions on the sides. they looked rough, like an apprentice bashed it out on a bench and attaching it was his first weld. they where pretty much test sumps to go on the GTHO Phase 4. ford used the same sump on the few production Phase 4's. funnily enough they looked just as bad as the originals? they dropped the idea for the production GT's and decided to use OEM sumps as it was cheaper than retooling. in the early 70's many privateers would make their own versions of these sumps. "some say" with these mods and a few home made baffles they were the only thing that saved their Cleveland from Bathurst.
Cool history William. Necessity is the mother of invention. Thanks mate
@@williamhardes8081they were called 'winged sumps" and I saw a few fitted to modified Australian Clevelands, oil restrictors available cheaply aftermarket forced more pressure down on the crank bearings, the top end oiled so well it was rare to see a camshaft wear out unlike the unique to GM Australia Holden 253 and 308 cu inch cams that showed early wear.
400 cu blocks could come with either the Ford small block or big block bell housing bolt pattern.
Good info , no bullshit and straight to the point, I'm building a 393c and I've been trying to find out the best thing to do to the oiling system and you answered all my questions , spot on .
Glad your here Paul, good luck with your build. I appreciate the positive comments, hope you subscribed, stay tune.
All I can say is, WOW!!. I have tried to find info on the 351C for years. Although my intrest is actually info on head gasket installations, I have my own problem, and that problem is a boiling/clicking sound when the engine heats up. I will keep looking here, and have subscribed for a greater education on the 351. Thank you for your time producing these videos. P.S. I am also an old Bob Glidden fan.
Cool beans Steve. Usually if the head gasket is on backwards, the engine will heat up fast. Constantly run hot. What you have sounds like maybe some air in the system, that boils percolates, you can hear it banging sometimes so you need to bleed off the air at least make sure that’s not an issue. Usually bring it up to temperature of the radiator cap off and look for bubbles. I suspect a slight head gasket leak could also cause this noise. Engines always seem to make noises as they heat and cool clicking clacking, also glad your Glidden fan thanks for being here Steve way more in store, share with your buds thanks
The "dry pan" thing made me laugh. Thanks!
You're absolutely right about details, that can win or lose a race 24/7, 365.
Awesome bit of info. Straight to the point and no bull. Cheers!!
That’s it. Dispel the BS and get to the meat and potatoes
Tim i agree, 👍🏼
like you said, what ever experience you’ve had & what works for ya best at the end of the day.
Exactly, do what works for you. Just trying to keep you focused depending on what level build you have, and to help you get the most from your combination. Be safe and stay tuned.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 👍🏼
agree though with the thin Cylinder Wall issues, best is to try score a decent stock virgin bore Clevo to start with, & only take it out minimal (eg +20thou max) if possible. They need all the help they can get..... we had so many floating around down here in 🇦🇺 but are getting scarce nowadays & fetching up to $1k for one .🤷🏼♂️
@@69JANKS Yes I have a couple of blocks that are standard, so I would use one of them. I would like to use the rods and pistons in vids, which are for a 4 inch bore. Have to be making more vids on that block preparedness, including filling.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland yes Tim, seen them & thought Wow 😯 , they are a cool set 👍🏼🏁
Look super light also, not too long & be awesome in slightly smaller Ci combo 🤷🏼♂️will look out for that one 💪🏼🏁
@@69JANKS yes I will make a 342 Cleveland if it all works out. Other pro stock mill will be 354ci, it already makes 615hp, at 8000. see what we can get out of with TR and two dominators. Appreciate your enthusiasm.
Love the channel! Love the Cleveland (I mean 335 series)! Thanks Tim.
Thanks man, just making a clarification, so people can delineate the difference. Gets people going. Thanks again and please share with your friends. More to come
The lifter bushings in a 351c are not necessary as long as the lifter bores are not damage due to scoring or rust pitting. If the bores are not damaged, oil does not escape between the lifter and block like everyone thinks. The oil hole in the lifter itself is the problem. Since Clevelands have priority oiling to the lifter first, the oil holes in the lifter allow too much oil to be pumped to the rockers on the right side.
I have discovered using a custom pushrod with a .020 oil hole will help keep the rockers from receiving to much oil and helps boost the pressure. My 351c prepped in this way holds 20-25 psi idling and 50 psi at 2000 rpm using a light weight 10w30 oil. Many 6500 and 7000 rpm shifts and the stock type .020 under rod bearings look good as new.
I have the other typical oiling mods like restrictors to the cam bearings and external oil line feeding the block behind the intake from the front oil port.
I am not a fan of lifter bushings. If the finish on the bushing isn't perfect, you can run into problems with the lifters sticking. If the oil hole isn't located in the bushing in the exact correct position for your particular set of lifters, you will have plenty of oil pressure and not a drop of oil getting to the rockers because the hole in the lifter never aligns with the hole in the bushing to receive oil.
Save yourself the headache. Lifter bushings should only be used to repair damaged bores.
Hey Duke ie. Jason I appreciate you watch my videos and commenting. I’ve never used any restrictor push rods. I’ve only used the basics, never use the front rear line until this bill. I’m not comfortable with your oil pressure numbers but that’s me. Also Cleveland‘s really don’t need any work if you keep it below seven grand, 65 to 7 grand you should have no problems even with a stock oiling system. But either way like I always say, do what works for you. I do like lifter for bushings, I think they do a great job, but I’ve never had used any as I always thought the expense was not worth results, with current and past builds. I do want to use them in my pro stock build though. But you are correct with the work bore you start to lose oil pressure, so good point. Thanks Jason for watching.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland we built a strictly race only Cleveland once that we installed oil restrictors in the actual lifter itself before we knew about the restrictor pushrods. With a Melling HV oil.pump and a 100psi spring installed, the engine had 60 psi idling and 100psi at 8500 rpm.
The oil pressure numbers I mentioned in my previous reply are from my street engine. I found that particular configuration to be reliable and robs the least horsepower. Oil pumps running high pressures are extremely parasitic which is probably why dry setups are preferred for racing where they can reduce the power losses using pulleys.
@@dukelps9132 I appreciate you getting back to me, and sharing with me your history. I’ve never used 100 psi spring, only high-volume oil pump, 9 quart pan, I never had any issues. My engine always seem to run 65 hot, and go to the traps at 8200 would be about 72 psi. One engine I had Ran five years with no maintenance whatsoever. Pass motor ever until the block decided to say bye-bye. I’ve only used the oil restrictor kit, and then when I went to 408 stroker, I used to Myers restrictor can bearings. That was say cars don’t need as much oil pressure thing to do especially on the street.
Very enthusiastic delivery Tim. You really know how to hammer the main points home. I'm not sure how high they revved the Bathhurst Clevos back in the day, but I'm fairly sure the best performers had massaged oiling systems. The '70 race was the first with a "335 series" engine, and Moffat won in the factory run Falcon; then again in '71, even with a cardboard box stuck in front of the radiator for some time ! Further into the Seventies, I think they were up-ing the rpm, and oiling issues killed plenty of Clevelands on Mount Panorama !!
Thank you Adrian, I was a little dramatic, to kind of hit the point home, about Ford identification, not that physical size specs. I am working on a vid I hope to get out tomorrow on the oil system, and oil control. Something no one has talked about on video that I have seen. I think it will be pretty cool, and help us get a better understanding of what we can do, so we can run 8k with no worries. Appreciate your comments, please like, and stay tuned....
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Man, I thumbs up every comment in all your videos, unless I certainly disagree with a particular comment..... off to work now,....catch ya later !!
Golden mate. Be safe out there at work to for a short time. Then video action in the am. Enjoy
One of the best diamonds in the rough Ford made. With the right work they’re killers.
Agreed.
I know from experience on a 70 351 4v engine or later one major weakness is the multi groove valve stem retainer locks slipping under high rpm. This is corrected on the boss heads. I had a 71 Torino GT with a 351 4v moroso restrictor kit try 11:1 pistons cloyes roller chain crane fireball hydraulic cam torker intake 1” spacer with a Holley spread bore center squirted ,Mallory dual point and hooker 2.5 super comp headers and electric fuel pump in trunk. C-6 small stall and 391 rears. The car was white and pinstriped by the mad stripper in Decatur Ga. My Dad worked for Carey Paul Ford as shop foreman and this was my first car. It was 1980 he bought it from Brim Paul the older of Mr Paul’s sons and it had 62000 miles and was a very nice car. I went to Rockdale County High School in Conyers Ga. we used to hang out at Salem Gate plaza and pick up races. I won more than I. Ever lost I beat 440s,396s you name it. People always say that that car sounded so good the way it pinged through the headers into the factory duals. My name is Donnie Jones and it was the time of my life. How I never got a ticket for street racing is beyond me. There were a lot of bad cars in Conyers at that time .I went in the Army and when I ets got married had kids. But I have had 2 427 galaxies some old trucks ,Broncos and the such.
Sounds like the Torino had it down for sure Norman. Thanks for telling us the history, sounds pretty fast for back in the day. Appreciate you stopping by and enjoying the channel. Please subscribe as there is so much more to come. Stay tuned.
The multi groove valve stem collets were NOT designed to lock, so the valves would spin and wear evenly.
The secret trick was to grind the stock locks (collets) where they touch each other, bringing the collets closer together, causing them to lock on to the valves.
Also, don't use use the stock retainers. I've seen them bend and nearly swallow the collets with mild cams and springs.
Better to just replace with good steel valves and appropriate locks. Too risky in my opinion BS
WORD my Australian neigbour. Great to see world wide message tribe of crazy rat roster, Predator and Tunnel Rammed Clevelands with pillow blocks and all manner of weird factory and Total Performance parts. Keep up your awesome work Mr H.:-)
Sure will Dean, new 354ci Cleveland should be here in the next couple of weeks for my wife, she can get that TR bolted up. Calling carb guy today see about him, going through my 2 sets of Dominators to restore. Stay Tuned
I think the 351 Ford Cleveland is the most beautiful engine FMC ever made. If it hadn't been for the EPA, the Cleveland mill could have been the most efficient ci/hp ever made. I've got one in my Cobra kit car and it rocks. I look for 5.0 mustangs to battle with.
I also think it the best looking engine made, every aspect looks awesome. I bet you can take anything out there, with that Cobra, strike em
Thanks Dragboss!! You forgot one myth tho. Chevy engines can make same power cube to cube. Lol. I enjoy your videos. Thanks again. Say hello to Family for me.
They sure can, I tried to keep it a secret, but, just could not. We are all good here, working away in the DragBoss garage. Toasty, smell of race fuel in the air. Trying to keep the Cleveland alive. Stay tuned.
Just wanted to give an update on the Fairmont: I currently have a 30 yard dumpster in the yard and have about got the car dug out. I will hold on to it all the way up until we are ready to go to market with our property. That will be around mid spring. I will email some pics soon! Awesome news about Rusty! I look forward to that content!
Thanks Brian, was thinking about that with the new rods and pistons I recent got. Your moving right along, yes keep me posted, this could all work out. Yes Rusty is a good guy, been through some rough times. I will get those interviews rolling. Thanks for supporting my channel and helping me. Hope all is well, stay tuned Brian.
My dad was an old school mechanic and a hard core Ford guy. He told me 30 year ago that 351 Clevelands were one of the best power makers Ford ever produced, but had cylinder wall cracking problems. So he built a 351Windsor block with dome pistons, and a large cam, and modified some 351 Cleveland 2bbl heads to fit it. He then built his own sheet metal intake manifold and topped it with an 850 Holley. Then he cut a hole in the hood of his Torino to clear the carb and intake, and built is own traction bars. Next was a set of slicks. My mom thought he had lost his mind, but it was the fastest street car at our local track for 3 years straight. Finally got kicked off the track for not having a roll cage when the track was purchased by a new owner lol
Another example of ingenuity and working with what he had. Sounds like a hard worker with determination. Thanks Ed. Tell your dad right on, he still wrenching
@@DragBoss351Cleveland He's been gone for many years now, but he definitely taught me to "Build it, dont buy it". Also the pure joy of out running a $30K car with a $1500 car built from stuff just laying around the shop. It's a great feeling. Anyway, thanks for the info you provide in your videos, keep up the good work
@@edjackson4389 thanks Ed. Appreciate you being here. Yes sir, I never throw anything out. You never know when your going to need it. Rip he taught you well, things you will always remember, like my dad.
Thank You, excellent video and information. 342? Want to hear it sing! Can’t wait for Spring.
You and me both, so much in store. Keep moving forward and I also can’t wait to hear it roar. Be some time but it is all coming together. Thanks Edward please subscribe.
Also Tim id like to add. I’ve used lifter bore bushings , the auxiliary line, and restrictors as well as tmeyer cam bearings. As of now the only mod i use is Tims restrictor Bearings. The last Clevelands sees 7300 rpm shifts on two bolt no problem so far.
Good real life experience too. Yes I have used his bearings with 8200 rpms, on two bolt mains also. It’s all about the little details that keeps the oil wheee it needs to be. Glad your here Steve. Thanks for the support
Man those rods and pistons are a work of art; a thing of beauty! (Without the blower) I found the power was definitely in the compression, more exhaust duration, with as much advance timing in the ignition that I could get away with, along with advancing the cam mentioned previously. Mine had the stock 4bbl heads remember. I ran 10.5:1 back in the day when premium gas (Ethyl) was on the way out, and unleaded (white lawnmower gas) was coming in. I'd buy bottles of lead at auto part stores for no knock while cruising. But if the orange (both gm and mopar) wanted to make a play, I'd stop by the airport and get a tank of 100 LL (low lead) aviation fuel. I lived in a small town and they knew me, so I'd pull out on the tarmac and they'd fill me up at something like 4 bucks a gallon (the stuff is a pretty blue, and smells good too!). Wish I would have known some of those secrets you're sharing. Did my own blueprinting. I'd turn it over 7,000 for the heads to work their magic. Even turning it that tight, the engine never blew even with 2 bolt mains. I did shatter about every piston ring and some pistons when I ran a small pulley on the blower. When i gave friends a ride they were definitely impressed, I was too for a while before limping home blue smoke covering the neighborhood. Sometime I'll tell you how I hid a nitrous system on the 'stang that only a few knew about.
I have to say one of the best smells is racing fuel. I love the smell when you sit at a light and people start to smell it. 10.5 seems like it may have been a little high on cr, maybe a bit too much cylinder pressure. Bet it was a blast to drive. Glad your into it. You will have to share your secret nitrous location sometime in the near future. Please like and subscribe. Appreciate the comments 8/8.
Another great Video!! Love the myth busting....
Not every one agrees with the 335 engine series v small block. It makes no difference, bottom line, I want to help guys understand what they can do to make power and longevity. It’s gets people thinking and active. Thanks Andy for always contributing to my channel, throw a like and lets keep
Rocking
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Tim I'm going to give you some ammo for your argument.. let's use Mopar as the first example.. They referred to their engines by letter designations.. "Small Block" engines were coded from Mopar A, and LA engines.. "Big Block" were the B and RB engines.. with R meaning Raised Block... Pontiac and AMC used the same block from 301-455 and 304-401 respectively.. no small or big blocks there... From my best understanding the term came from Hot Rodders referring to the Small Block chevy which is 9.06 deck height vs the Big Block at the time was the 348-409 but when the 396 came out the block had a similar appearance to the Small Block but having a 9.8 deck height...
Ford referred to the Small Block as the fairlane engine in the beginning.. it never had a name until the Boss 302, and 351 Windsor/ Cleveland terms still used today! Windsor and Cleveland names are like peanut butter and jelly.. is it fair to call such different engines all small blocks? It kills me when people call FE' Mid blocks. Where does that come from? It's an FE just like the 385, and 335 series engines and don't forget the 427 SOHC and the BOSS 429 engines which were part of the FE and 385 series . That is their given Ford names! Don't forget Chevy named their special engines too LT1, ZL1, and now LS1, 2, 3, 4, 6 and 7 and the new LT series engines.. Keep up the great work!!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Thank you Andy for taking the time out of your busy day, to help with some excellent work explaining, all makes of engines, into their respective BB, Sb designations, similarities, and contrast, I think you really went the extra mile, to contribute, and I thank you so much. 335 engine series, are what they are called, their nomenclature in the Ford engine line up. I never mentioned the physical attributes, such of bore spacing, or ci, which the Cleveland shares with the Windsor, and 289/302. just putting it on the shelf where it belongs from organizational standpoint. Yes sir, I try not to get worked up, but on the other hand, I like people to think, and say how they feel. It keeps communication flowing. I am glad you can see that things are not always what they appear. Further investigation is always warranted. Keep your channel Rocking and thanks for hanging out at the DragBoss garage....Stay Tuned.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland thank you Tim, I look forward to all of your videos.. I can't wait to see that ProStock Cleveland come to life!
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Excellent, my friend. I enjoy yours as well. I can't wait to see and hear, 342 ci of Fire Breathing Cleveland.
You certainly making me want to build my Cleveland myself. Thank you
Thanks Heath, you can do it, get the machine work done and kind of follow along. Appreciate you watching and commenting. Thanks for the support
You are indeed correct that Ford never made a small block or big block. 260, 289, 302 and 351W were simply known as the Ford 90° V8. FE was Ford Engine. MEL was Mercury Edsel Lincoln. FT was Ford Truck. 335 Series was Cleveland, 400 and 351M. 400 was by itself and the Modified came in with a destroked 400. 400s were the only engines offered with 3 different bellhousing flanges (small 90° flange, dual small flange AND 385 Series flange and straight 385 Series flange).
Your exactly right. People are reading deep, which is why I said what I did. As far as nomenclature goes, 335 engine series, not small block ford. Technical, but correct. It was sort of a blanket statement, which is hard to do, if you stated any physical specs on block, such as bore spacing, bellhousing, I just said what Ford labeled it and identified it as. Thanks again for contributing to my channel. That Fairmount could be the destiny of the pro stock 342.
No, FE stood for Ford Edsel.
@@makattak3550 FE stood for Ford Engine in tech lit. MEL was Mercury Edsel Lincoln. Edsel never used engines off the Ford line, only the MELs. Ford, on the other hand, did use a MEL engine in a single Ford model and that was the Thunderbird with the 430 option in the 58-63 models.
You always forget the 221 Windsor it didn't start at 260
@JosephCowen-ru7up your are spot on my friend.
Thanks. You're validating my experiences with the cleveland.
Your welcome Kurt. Glad your here. Working on tonight’s video, 600+ hp 354ci Cleveland. Stay tuned. Don’t forget to subscribe
One of the best engines ford made
For sure. Screaming for vengeance
Great job, Tim! I, love your channel!
Thanks CW, just keep moving forward with the plan. Glad your into it and get some info out of it. Much more to come so stay tuned....
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I learn from you, about Cleveland’s! Thank you!
@@strokermaverick welcome my friend keep on moving forward. Glad you can use the info. Way more to come.
Looking forward to your dyno video, certainly racy looking heads you have there. We're doing a mild street 393 C build in the coming months. Customer had a standard bore 4 bolt block, something I didn't think still existed 50 years later. We're going with the Speedmaster heads since that's all we can find in the Covid era, and they look pretty nice for what they cost.
Thanks, they are old Ford Motorsport heads, A3s. A 393c will be ripping up the pavement for sure. Think you will really like it. Cleveland's are out there, just need to know where to look.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland This just popped up, Speedmaster 3V heads should be called SHITmaster. What a turd this 393 was. We built a similar one maybe 10 years prior with factory iron 4V heads and it must have made 60 more than this engine.
Stay FAR away from Speedmaster.
@@yarrdayarrdayarrda speed master are technical thieves. Ever touch anything they copy and produce. That really sucks bad, is what are you going to do?
Great video, thanks for clarifying this. Great info!
Your welcome. You get it, thanks letting me know.
Mr. Dragboss! I finally got it done! 72 Ford 351 Cleveland uncracked and all stock with the original parts. Now I know I will need your advice and knowledge of the platform. Mom is going to be a bit proud and happy, hopefully she doesn't have a heart attack when she gets in the car and turns the key. Again thanks for the video and prodding I love and needed to get it done. Phase 1 secured the engine. Great Monday evening to you and your family!
Awesome John your on the way to high hp cleveland. It will make your moms heart rate increase that is for sure. Get it tore down and see what she looks like. Hope you have a great Tuesday. Wife and I putting up gazebo. No garage work😳
@@DragBoss351Cleveland happy wife equals, happy Dragboss! Great Tuesday to you.
@@johnelliott7375 you too, stay safe and stay busy. Have a awesome day
Would love to see interviews with Rusty and Darrin!!!!!
Yes they are into it too, just have to get everything coordinated. I can’t wait either. Just trying to juggle everything. So be patient and stay tuned. Thanks watching please subscribe
My fianceé's dad used to build those when he worked in Brook Park. Tough engine.
For sure. Been by there many time, always give them the 👍tell him thanks for building the Cleveland’s
Thank you Tim excellent information
Glad you could use it and see the truth.
Most people call the Cleveland a Small Block cause of the bell housing pattern. This is what I have found over the years. The Cleveland used the same bell housing pattern as the 289/302. The 351M and 400's used the 429/460 bell housing pattern, but the flywheel is a whole different thing.
The new ford pro stock motor also used the same bell housing, but it is not “small block”. I am talking about what ford called it. Glad you contributed and paying attention. Thanks watching and don’t forget to subscribe and like 👍
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Maybe Ford chose the term 335 instead of small block?
Have you ever watched the Australian door slammers with Benny Gatts 351? He ran against Victor Bray a lot, who used a Keith Black 426 Hemi platform. Hardly fair, but Benny's 351 was an absolute monster. Bray beat him most times, but it was in the milliseconds. That's 351 power like nothing else.
Right on. Ford did. I like that, David and Goliath. Cleveland’s to the front.
Delt with a few Cleveland engines. Had one in a Ford LTD that I later put in a 65 F100. Lost the rear main seal and pumped oil out. Took 11 quarts of oil to go 100 miles and then it spun the bearings. I have one on my engine stand and am looking at modifications to put a pair of cut and welded Cleveland heads on a stroked 4.0 Jeep engine. Bore centers are the same and head bolt holes on one side line up. Also looking onto the 2.5 Jeep 4 cylinder with a Cleveland head on it. Highway 101 Rod and Custom.
Hey James thanks for watching. Wow sounds like you have. Some cool plans. Be interested to see how it all works out. Never knew they fit in regards to bore centers. Good luck and thanks for watching.
I grew up in the 70s,those cleavlands 2 or 4 brl with minor mods where kick ass.
Rusty Glidden, is a fantastic guy.
Damn straight on that fact Carter
Well said mate, my AFD headed Parker manifold 2 bolt 100,000 mile block with 3 sleeves 393 has made about 350-400 11.0 passes. Am I'm worried. hell no! Just want to rip it down the track again. I use a hi vol pump and by pass line. And its fine by me. And in Australia they call the 400 a Cleveland as well. Grrrrrrrrrr 🤬 I keep an eye out for blocks with the lifter bore central to the casting boss.
Great video.
Thank you and appreciate your contribution. I have always used a high volume pump, and that is what works for me. It’s all about attention to detail, make sure your bearing clearance match your combo and parts used. Yes I made the point simply for ID purposes, enjoy every one getting involved. Thanks XE, spread the word, DragBoss you tube channel. 👍
Dude you really should be starting with an aftermarket block for this build so all the oiling, core shift and bottom end strength issues are solved right out of the box. I means whats a world industries or ford motorsport block worth? 1500? 2K? I mean do a patreon and charge every member 1 dollar. If even only a quarter of people sign up, theres your money right there. Gotta approach these things looking at the big picture and spending this small amount in the grand scheme is gonna save you more time and money than pretty much any other mod. Keep plugging away. Tom from Oz
Thanks Tom from Down under, I can dig what your saying for sure. But I am old school and want to try and recreate as a much as I can of the old pro stock mill. If I used an aftermarket block then I would have a Clevor, won’t work for me. For my last ultimate Cleveland, will use my TrackBoss afternoon aluminum Cleveland block. Your right though, if everyone chipped in a few bucks, these bucket list of engines would be built way faster. If I was subscribing, I would have no problem throwing in 10-20 bucks to see things move right along. Just don’t want people to think I’m out there for looking for a handout. Using an old stock block, with also help others to see and build their Cleveland’s to
Whatever degree they feel they need. Thanks for watching and please to my channel. Stay tuned
They do it's called a 351 Windsor alloy block , slap a set of alloy Cleveland heads on and a Clevor intake all done
I couldn't remember the series numbers. I call a Cleveland, a Cleveland, a Windsor, a Windsor, and a 289/302 a small block. I've worked on FE's(Ford Edsel), 429's, Y-block's, and I owned a 1949 Merc Flathead(it was in my 40 Ford coupe)! It's like people saying Pontiac Big Block! LOL. The 347-455, Pontiac's, are all the same physical size! Cool series.
You get it. I was not saying to classify by physical size, and specs, just the name. I appreciate you getting in here and hanging out, look around, lots to see. Please subscribe, and share with your friends to help me build this Chanel.
First Great video and information and you have a new SUBSCRIBER.
Welcome aboard!
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thank ya.
Thank you very much, been arguing with these new comers on the small block big block. You never heard that in the Ford blocks just the chevys back in the day, it's just the millennium kids started this.
Thanks Dennis. Nothing to argue about I say, people agree or disagree. Nothing to waste time on. Need to waste time on getting the most from your Cleveland combination or any engine for that matter. It’s the little things that make the difference. Thanks for watching and contributing to my channel. Please like and share
@@DragBoss351Cleveland true at that. 👍👍
I'm 68 & have been a true Ford fan for 50 years. Both NASCAR & drag racing. I'm guilty of always thinking the 351's were considered small block & the 429/460 big blocks. I know they were classified the 335/385. Just like the FE's series. The list of famous Ford racers,from Stock to T/F is as long as my arm,but Mr. Glidden has always been my favorite. I went to the US NATIONALS for many years,got to see Dyno,G&R & "MAD DOG" win many titles there! Loved watching all the classes with Ford powered engines! NHRA/IHRA/AHRA, ah the good old days! Now NHRA P/S is only Chevys, not interested in the least! This is your first video I've seen. I subscribed! You mentioned you & your wife having P/S 's. Do you compete in NHRA or??? Sorry for this being so long, but like I said,I'm a huge Ford fan! Good luck to you & everyone else who races with Ford power! Long Live Fast Fords!
Thanks Robert for subscribing. It must have been awesome to be there in real life, to experience the sights, sounds, and smells. To see those cars run must have been unbelievable for sure. I only got to see them on tv, Diamond P, was my exposure. Still love watching it today. Yes maybe a little technical on the name, but it got people thinking and sharing their opinions. One of my goals is to have both my wife and I build 2 pro stock, high port Cleveland’s and dyno test and see what changes intakes and carbs have. My wife’s 354ci, just came in, and is sitting in fastenal. I need to pick it up. I will make a video on this and the specs of the motor. Glad your here. And stay tuned, cause there is so much more. Loading next video with famed Australian engine builder and racer Trickie Triccas. His view on the cleveland oiling. Thanks again Robert
i have a clevo XE192540 4 bolt mains with thicker cylinder walls and better steel , to go in a 1984 XE FALCON panel van , i enjoy your talks mate cheers , in Australia the blocks are called "Nascar pillow blocks"
Have one myself Phillip. Will be working on mine in the near future. Glad your here and enjoying my channel. Stay tuned as there is so much more in store
@@DragBoss351Cleveland oh brilliant , cant wait to see that there isn't many around , do you have a 1970"s or 1980"s block
@@panelvanman7671 have an Xe block, but.030, mine is going to be standard bore, 3.400 crank, have the pistons you see there. Be 340ci, wife will have a 354ci one. Early blocks.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland mine is the 1982 run of 300 blocks , still standard bore 4 bolt , they garnish quite a princely sum over here 4-5 thousand dollars Australian for a standard bore , and its a piece of ford racing history to boot
Yep I hear ya, the guy that bought mine new, got two at the same time. He identified it. All good turn up the wick.
Looks like I’m on borrowed time....408 Cleveland dyno 604hp & 552trq at the crank. No block fill or oil modifications besides using a 9qt pan. Street motor with 600-700 miles. Ran 10.38 going through traps at 7100 in a 3100 pound Maverick
Truthfully you are. I had a 385, that dynoed, at 668hp that ran best of 9.99, but go through at 8k, but at 3295 lbs. I also drove it on the street. Lasted 5 years of pounding, your making good power but your rpm range is in a great place. Without fill slowly loose ring seal and bores will become oblong. Jake I say roll with and enjoy, changes on next build. Thanks for watching and commenting. Please like 👍 and subscribe.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thanks, I think I could live with getting 5 or so years out of the block. What are your thoughts on the aftermarket blocks? Also, I noticed location pin says Sandusky...is that where you’re out of?
@@jakecrnkovich22 aftermarket is Windsor based except TrackBoss, arrow down under and another I would rather not mention. Yes Sandusky Ohio.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Good to know. Ah cool, I’m just east of Cleveland in Geauga County.
@@jakecrnkovich22 Prob an hour, 1 1/5 away. Cool deal, maybe stop by, and do an episode when this covid is done. Be safe.
Ok small block implies 4.5 or less bore spacing, big block implies greater than 4.5 bore spacing. Same goes for every manufacturer. Ford made multiple small blocks and still does. Its a semantics argument. Important bit the Windsor, Cleveland, and M engines all share a bore space & headbolt pattern... but not much else.
Exactly semantics. It gets people thinking. In reality Ford delineated engine series to identify and differentiate from 289/302351w engines. You can also bolt a Cleveland head of a LS Chevy block😳. Thanks for commenting and contributing to my channel. Please subscribe and stay tuned
@@DragBoss351Cleveland and a flat head ford
Sorry buddy that makes no sense , I think a 351 Cleveland and 302 Cleveland is a small block but bore spacing does not mean big or small block , my point being a Small Block Oldsmobile 403 ci even a 260 ci Oldsmobile has 4.625 inch bore spacing , the same as the 400, 425 and 455 big blocks as for Ford the new 445 ci Godzilla Small Block has a 4.55 inch bore spacing .
@JosephCowen-ru7up what makes no sense is the engine was never called a small block by Ford. It was the 335 series, which was supposed to be between the 302 and the 390. Agree the other engines and info you provided Joe
@@DragBoss351Cleveland there is much about the Cleveland that is different , but ford made so many different engines , I think it was in the early 1970s they had four engines of different designations the exact same size and bore X stroke ! The 351w, 351c, 351m and 352fe there must have been a big market for this size engine , the other thing , Im in Australia and don't see a lot of US engines , when I was a kid no one wanted 302 Clevelands in Ozland , so if you had one all you were doing was trying to find a 351 C , every wrecker had piles of used 302c motors , prob 10 years later they realised the 302 C closed chamber 2v heads ( same head used on four barrel 302c motors) was a very good high comp head , good port flow and speed , with the addition of US 4v valves and simple pocket porting the are very good , also the 302c has. six inch beefy rods standard , now you can still find 302c in wreckers but out in the country .
Love these videos and love these blocks.
Me too. Thanks for watching and stopping by. Please explore my channel and see what you can find. Don’t forget to subscribe and like. Way more in store
The "Dot" on 4V heads denotes a later casting revision that has slightly revised water passages, casting dates will show this too.
Good to know, but no need to discuss in general, makes no difference to the ports or combustion chamber. Glad your into it. Thanks for watching. Don’t forget to subscribe
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Agree, great vids by the way!
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Benny Gatt top fueled the Clevo extensively, up against Victor Bray in a Keith Black Hemi, sure he was out gunned, but only by micro seconds..
Find out what he did with the 351 Clevo.
@@makattak3550 I do love the Hemi, always intimidating and ahead of its time, holds true today. Be a cool race to see. Glad your here 👍
Hey awesome video and channel man you got a new sub.
Appreciate it man. Glad your into it for sure, so much more to come. Explore the vids and stay tuned, please give my vids the 👍
This clip is full of information!
Thanks Danny, I try to provide information and education. Also some entertainment.
Tim, Loved the newest video. You won’t ever get an argument from me, that’s for sure ! Please corect me if I’m wrong, but I don’t think you’ve ever done a video on solid roller camshafts (specifically for drag racing a Cleveland). While I’m at it, what about one strictly on shaft rockers ? I know you are more than likely busier than a one legged man in a butt kicking contest right now, just saying. I would really like to see that. I think that would really help me on mine, as well as other guys.
Hey Jimmy, I have talked about the solid rollers I have used in the past, so can reiterate in a more condensed version. I have never used shaft rockers, although I would like too, on TrackBoss build. I did a vid on set up on yella terra, and will will go over it again on my mid lift theory vid. Yes I am busy as you said, hopefully can keep rolling forward and bring more to you guys, thanks for asking and helping me build my channel my friend.
Good work with this video mate!
Thanks King, appreciate your opinion. Enjoy your channel as well. More to come....Stay tuned.
Great Video ! Keep em coming!!
Thanks Billy more on the way. Just looking at things from a different perspective.
Respect Glidden,! Saw a post while back on a block that came up on Mustang forum Facebook, block had no casting identification, I think they figure out it was a 351 Windsor from the heads, but there was speculation the block something special, a first look thought it was a industrial engine of some kind, everyone else was saying 351M, M engines were notorious for being poor casting, with the later ones being stronger 76 later I believe. But getting back to the block with no casting identification, I’m certain that some of those molds were sold off at the factory, perhaps independently made blocks made there way into industrial applications in this manner, hot rod high nickel block for marine, or heavy duty use?
Yes Rusty is a great guy for sure. Thanks for all the time you took to help build my channel. You never know, seen some fe and 351m water generator engines. Thanks for watching
These Cleveland videos always forget the longest produced Cleveland the 302 Cleveland produced from 1975 to 1984/5 , best heads closed chamber 2V on all 2 barrel and 4 barrel engines !
I don’t forget, just not a Cleveland we are familiar with in the states. I have no parts or engines. I will include them in my head video.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland thanks mate, they were sooo common here, it was the standard V8 for Ford , the 351 C was an option . At least you know they exist , most US people have big arguments about the 302 Clevelands existence , they make good power for a five litre or as they were badged here in Oz , a 4.9 litre. I always wondered what would have happened if Ford had gorn down GM Holden's route and multi point injected the Clevelands ? Clevelands were still available in Aussie Ford's in 1984/5 model year . If you want to see a real oddball Ford Motor look up the 351 that Ford produced in OZ back in 1973 , it was a prototype when Ford OZ was deciding to build their own V8 in Oz , the 4V Cleveland was a bit over the top for everyday cars , so Ford played around with different combinations of heads and blocks , anyhoo , Ford Oz made and ran on the dyno and in cars a 351 that was a 351 Cleveland block and 351 Windsor heads with a factory cast iron intake to suit ! It's a strange combination and very different Ford 351 C/W probably the rarest 351 ever , they produced 20 complete motors for evaluation , then finally went with casting our own 302/351 C motors and 2V style Open and Closed Chamber heads.
The "M" and 2 BBL Cleveland heads are different castings. The roof of the exhaust port in a C head, specifically around the guide boss, looks like any typical port. The M port has a shelf filling the roof of the port, god knows how it killed flow. It's been years since I compared the 2 castings side by side, but you can't miss the difference (in the exhaust port) between the two. To my recollection, the 351/400 was never offered with a 4 BBL carb, and the only difference between the two is the crank and the pistons. (1/4" taller compression height in the 351M) Cool video.
Glad your into it. Yes there are definitely differences. It the attention to detail that makes the difference, in watching the video or building your own Mill. Yes crank and pistons are the difference between 351m and 400. I misspoke on the video. Cool your here, thanks for the support. Please like.
Yes the lump In, 351M-400, 2V heads, is absolutely there. D5------, or newer heads, not desirable. May neighbor in '80, bolted on early 70-71 quench heads(4V) on his almost new 1979 LTD two. 351M. Bolted the quench heads on, stock 2V intake, and exhaust manifolds. Yes huge port mismatched. But it definitely raised C.R. Performance was great!! Could not believe it!
Cool to hear stories like that. Those were the days we all miss Chris.
The Australian 351 Four Barrel engine used the 2V style head in open chamber , the best heads are 302 Cleveland Closed Chamber 2V style with us 4v valves on a 351 or 400 you get between 10.5 to 11.5 compression .
I just picked up a 69 Torino (3 on the tree), with a 351c. I'm looking to learn more about this engine. Common issues - pro's and con's alike. Any advice you would have I would find very valuable. I'm trying to jump into light speed, so I'm looking to cruise and dependability is my goal as I intend to enjoy during the spring, summer, and fall months. Thank you in advance for any help/advice you give.
George, sounds like you have a winning combination. It’s tough to give any advice without a lot of information. But I will tell you this. If you’re not going to turn over 6800 you do not need to make any changes to the oiling system. There are a ton of videos talking about the cleveland oil system, look through my channel there’s a bunch of videos on building the Cleveland, Oiling system issues. Let me know what you think
Thank you, I've subscribed since watching your video. It's made it this far with the original engine/transmission combination. I plan on restoring it and driving it as much as possible 👍
Talk to the pro Aussies about the Clevo.. we got the yank tooling in about 72, created a 302 Cleveland as well.
Great video..... I remember back in the early 70's, it was so easy to make power from a 351C. Any chance of you talking about a Boss 302?
Alan Moffit here in Australia raced a Kar Kraft Trans Am Mustang 302 in the sixties, it won about 100 races from 150 and has a pretty amazing history, look him up!
Nope talking about a Cleveland, thanks man Sorry so long to get back to you.
They also called it a mid-block. Would love to grab one of Meyers aluminum Track Boss
I have all kinds of different names. I think I’ve had mine for two years, it’s still at the machine shop, only been there 6 months. Heads are done and sending intake.
My class says I can only use cast iron block and heads. Been searching for a set of Aussies to set on top of a zero deck but my machine shop champhered the crank too much for my liking. He likes to build Chevy engines and he did the crank way too much for my liking.
@@jimkruse74 i’d have to agree with you on that matter. But definitely put on a set of Australian two V-heads make a big difference for sure.
Thank you for the info I just picked up a 99 gt I'm planning on putting a 351clevland out of a 70 mach 1 that I have had on my shop floor for the past 25 years lol but it ran fine when I pulled it out of the car
Cool deal James, you going to pull her down to inspect? New bearings, rings? Glad your here thanks and please like and subscribe.
Yes I'm going to go completely through it it still has the original 2 barrel intake I want to of course go to a 4 barrel and find headers to fit that body. I made sure that I subscribed to your channel keep the info coming thanks bro
@@jameskisor8632 your most welcome. They make swap headers for your car. Hedman makes them is do believe. Glad I could help.
I figured someone made a kit ill look into that
Also the last of the ozzy blokes with the GF casting at the back have thinker cylinders and webbing but dont use a ozzy crank, they are soft but the rods are good. Mike
Mike won’t have to worry too much around here, none of those parts here. Although I do have and XE with GF symbol in the back, going to have to figure out what to do with it.
Hey Tim Some blokes just love debating,i dont argue with guys like that,like you said mate keep doing and using what works.Another thing Tim i dont know why these block fellas pouring these high dollar blocks,why dont just copy a 192540 block and bring it out a realistic price,Thats the block i have used for the last 25 years,if it works keep useing it
I agree with bringing back iron, but having a difficult time keeping the cylinders and water jacket stable. Not many guys going to dump big money in an aluminum block, as it is a large investment. In reality I was more happy running 10.0s with no work but load car, race, unload and repeat. Do what works for you, my key phrase.....stay tuned
New to the Cleveland! I'm running one in my 66 cobra replica very mild at the moment ! But I'm looking at going with the trick flow 190 heads I think it is for the heads and single plane intake with my 750 dp hope to have a strong reliable Cleveland
Jason in that car even a mild cleveland will be insane. They weigh nothing, and with a stick. Hang on. Just changing the heads will lighten it up at least 50lbs. Don’t know much about those heads, but you don’t need a lot of port for your goal. With that combo think you’re going to have a killer combo, keep cam in the 225-238 range at .050. Keep your rpm under 7k should be fine, unless oil mods
@@DragBoss351Cleveland thank you very much for your valuable insight 7k and under it will be
@@culbycars your welcome. Just think how fast that would be be. By the time you hit 4th or 5th gear now your doing 150-160 ish with the right gear. Even in the street wind it to 6500 and see how fast it is. Plenty
Another good Vid. Thanks.
Thanks Steve, may a little strong I. Some parts, but to get people thinking and comprehending. That’s is what makes some faster than others. Appreciate your FB page, thanks for letting me post there. Don’t forget to to like 👍
Great video
Lots of Ford action Tom.
Sure miss Bob he knew what the fastest smaller block ever made was and how to make it even better.
No doubt Dave, that’s why I want to keep the Cleveland alive. Let’s see what it can do. Appreciate the time you took to comment. Please like and subscribe
Good information and what do you do with your old blocks when you upgrade to new aluminum ones? I could use a good starting foundation for my car and I will never be running 8500 like you but what I could do with your old one, for me is like going from a four cylinder to a real Cleveland is just a mind blowing thought for me. 6k would be a great dream for me to have a real solid piece. Great evening and I hope you have a great week coming up. Keep it coming, I love watching and learning more every time I listen. Take care and be safe.
I have replaced a couple 302s with 351 Clevelands and everything bolted right up except the down pipes on the exhaust. I also had a 1978 F150 4X4 that came factory with a 351m. My buddy that owned the truck before me took that out and installed a 400 for more towing power. I bought the truck and installed a 460. Bolted right up to the C6 auto. Had to make motor mounts and had to slide the trans and transfer case back about an inch for the motor mounts to line up to the perch. The rear cross member was already slotted from factory to do this. So i call the Cleveland a small block because of its bell housing bolt pattern and the 351m/400 big block for the same reason. The 351 windsor is a small block and has a taller deck hight then the Cleveland.
I have given quite a few away. I usually would just start over and out the used one in the corner. I only have 3-4 left. I told you I had one for you, you would be winding that out to the max. Don’t forget to like 👍
@@robertbrewster9013 you can call it what you like. No worries, I just you to get the most out of your 335 series engines. Appreciate the comments and helping me build my channel. Please like 👍 and share.
John this is an interesting observation.
Shops are encouraging customers with old Iron engine's in them to upgrade to newer engines.
It has been good. I have a good collection of Cleveland heads because of it.
Great info! thanks Drag Boss!
Thanks 67, hope you saw the vid of my buddys Fairlane, on my channel, check it out.th-cam.com/video/ArVEgTmEGNE/w-d-xo.html
DragBoss Tim you gotta love girls. You think you gott'em in the garage and then you get them a bunny and its all over with hahahaha. I know how that goes. Good info man. What is crazy are the Pontiac and Buick engines. 326-455 and all with the same blocks. Tell me that's not simple living. I cant wait to get to the track to try out your old shocks on my Cat. So have you ever cleaned up those Thrush side pipes I traded you?
Pontiac, Buick and Oldsmobile were all completely different engines. Nothing interchanged except maybe the oil filter.
Thanks my friend. I could not remember if it was olds or Pontiac. Good point for sure. Yes they pretty much gave up the garage, so far. Hopefully finish up my pv clearance vid today. I have not messed with them, but may send to my buddy Scott miller who owns aluminew, they would come out factory appearing. Stay tuned
@@billprice73 I know the individual company blocks are actually different. Not my point. Point was each of these company's used the same block to make a small displacement aka small block and big displacement aka big block. Made it simple instead of physically different sized engines and no different motor mounts and bell housings to mess with.
No nothing on BOP, thanks for getting us up to speed. Appreciate it all Bill. Please like 👍 and subscribe
Just wanted to clarify something for you about the 351m and 400s, the rods are the same, they use different cranks and pistons with a different compression height. But great video!
Thanks James my bad, thanks for picking up the details, glad you liked the video and took the jist from it. Stay tuned James way more in store.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Not a problem, and not tryin to pick your video apart I just happen to be building a 408 from a 351m using the 400 crank, and pistons with a .030" overbore! Also I was pretty impressed with the fact when bringing up the 351m and 400s you didn't jump on the bandwagon of oh it's just a boat anchor because so many fail to recognize the potential they have. In stock form they were dogs thanks to fords terrible decision on cam timing and the low compression, but deck the block, plane the heads, and toss in a boss 351 cam and you end up with a stout performer!
@@agent_00c45 no worries whatsoever. You are so right, just a big cleveland. My buddy races a 438 based on that block. He has a Cougar, with ur19 and it is a few videos back, check it out
Don't forget the 352FE. That one can cause some people to scratch their heads.
i like the valve cover display on the tool box. i dont think they make the gold covers any more? do they?
No they do not, I have a few pair, and new set in the box, with matching air cleaner. Thanks for noticing and watching video
1.628 PCH is enormous, and with a 5.855 rod,
- a 3.430 stroke gives (with 0.000 pin offset) a 9.198 assembly height @ TDC, and a ~1.707:1 rl/s ratio.
- a 3.400 stroke gives (with 0.000 pin offset) a 9.183 assembly height @ TDC, and a ~1.722:1 rl/s ratio.
As always, there's an engineering tradeoff to be made, but I think if the block can handle the strain, the recip assembly parameters should be mostly decided along this tree:
1) What is the maximum bore that my heads will support? Piston crown design can improve this number, depending on lots of variables, so there's nothing inherently wrong with using a smaller bore than you could have, unless you run into shrouding problems (or worse). In any particular block, a smaller bore will have a thicker cylinder wall -- which means the block is stronger and more rigid, but simultaneously also (for the people who want to pick at nits) technically heavier.
2) What is the shortest compression height that I can use? The answer isn't always obvious: the proper wristpin diameter is correlated to bore size: use too small a diameter and it doesn't matter that the pin doesn't bend: the piston will bend around it -- which is not exactly optimal. Most people are using SBC pins (0.927 or 0.930) in big-bore SBFs, but after 4.125, I start thinking I want a bigger pin. Ring stack along the lines of 1.0-1.2mm for the top and second rings, 3mm for the oil ring.
3) What is the longest stroke I can use? Again, the answer isn't always obvious: the SBC 400 came stock with a 5.565 rod length and a 3.750 stroke (1.484:1 rl/s) so you can go shorter than 1.500 on the rl/s ratio -- and Kaase recommends rod length be 2 inches greater than stroke, and since he's built plent of 6.000-stroke "mountain motors," it doesn't take a rocket surgeon to realize that a 1.33-ish rl/s will work pretty effectively with the right components.
I'm pretty sure that there are people that have built combos with rl/s ratios in the 1.250-1.280-ish range, but I don't remember specific examples; I do recall a BBF tractor-pull engine that had a 13-inch deck (with plates, sleeves) and a 6.250 stroke with an 8.200 or an 8.250 rod (1.312:1 or 1.320:1); the tall piston in that case was to help resist piston distortion under the extreme pressures and temps of pulling.
You're not in danger of this with the sort of combo that you intend to run, but just FYI to anyone having read this far: (a) different piston manufacturers use different "check height" points relative to the wristpin centerline; and (b) the bottoms of cylinder bores usually feature a sort of "flare" or de-burring relief. The increased-diameter portion at the bottom of that bore does not count in the true length of the cylinder: for what I'm about to describe, it's the same as if it had been lopped off. If the check height point drops below the true bottom of the cylinder, the piston will wobble in the bore and if you're extremely lucky, it'll only cost you some badly-scuffed skirts: it can ruin your engine in a heartbeat.
Additionally, I don't like the centerline of the wristpin to drop below the true bottom of the cylinder. To find out where the centerline of the wristpin is going to be @ BDC, relative to the crankshaft centerline, subtract half the length of the stroke from the rod length (remembering that rod length is always measured between the centerlines of the rod's wristpin bore and the rod's crankpin bore). I know *you* know that, but I didn't want someone in the comments saying they measured over the balancing pads and now everything doesn't fit, or something similarly ridiculous.
4) Anyway, decide where you want the crown of the piston to be @ TDC; this will be determined largely by two elements: (a) clearances between the piston crown and the head and valves; and (b) the static compression ratio you want to use, which will itself be almost entirely determined by the anti-knock and burn characteristics of whatever you're using for fuel. When I refer to fuel, I mean that in the sense that fuel is the reductive component in an oxidation-reduction reaction: it's the thing that gets burned in the presence of the oxidizer. Generally speaking, the oxidizer in nearly every RICE (reciprocating, internal-combustion engine) is air; sometimes to air is added an agent such as nitrous oxide.
Common fuels used are alcohols and gasolines; these are occasionally blended with each other, with or without the addition of other substances that may be described either as an additive (such as an "injector cleaner," and "octane booster," etc) or another fuel (which itself may be a blend, an example of which is "model airplane fuel" that is sometimes added because it is available in blends containing a relatively high fraction of nitromethane, and it can be discretely stored without alerting one's racing buddies to the fact).
The downside to nitromethane is that even a small amount added to an OE fuel system will destroy it in a matter of minutes -- so unless you're planning on replacing the entire fuel system from tank to intake after 1 or *maybe* 2 passes, or you've built and installed a complete nitro-compatible fuel system, don't even try using that. You really don't want to burn-down your car, and if the fire happens while you're zipping along at 160-or-so, you may not be able to get out before the flames decide to buddy-up to you in the cockpit. That's not the sort of thing I have in mind when I think of "heart-warming" friendships.
Ethanol is a particular type of alcohol having the chemical formula C2H5(OH); methanol is a particular type of alcohol having the chemical formula CH3(OH). I could elaborate on those and get into subspecies, but that's beyond the scope of what normal people need to worry about outside a laboratory.
Ethanol and methanol have different characteristics when used as fuels. By law, in the USA, ethanol used as a motor fuel must be "denatured" (blended with something to make it unfit for human consumption); the IRS -- in particular, the BATFE -- regulates this, but it kinda makes me think there's some squirrels in our government when the same government that insists firearms must be taken away from people because they might be used to hurt someone, also demands that we poison what could otherwise be beverage alcohol.
I'm not advocating that people drink alcohol; I don't, but I recognize that others do. And I'm not judging: I once met a family that made orange wine; I can't remember how to get in touch with them, and it's been well over 50 years since I last saw them, but they were proud of their product and it would have been extremely rude for my family to have not sampled a taste (it was *just* a taste -- between maybe 5cc and 10cc). I recall that it was as smooth as water but also very sweet; if they're still alive and making wine, I think I might someday want to buy a bottle and sip on it now and again as I age and reminisce; I don't think I'd want a whole glass at once, but for me, it isn't about the alcohol.
My point was that kids today seem far more nosy than when I was a wee lad -- or maybe they're just undisciplined; regardless, there seems to be a behavioral pandemic among children, caused and exacerbated by "parents" who fail to *be* parents (being a biological donor doesn't make someone a mom or a dad), in which meddling children get into things they ought not, often with dire consequence -- and I've met far too many "adults" who either ignore or deliberately violate the warnings on labels, so I don't really think that it's a labeling issue: they pick locks and do other things; there's no way to stay ahead of them: you've got to start early and teach them to want to do right and to not want to do wrong.
But should the kid pay for the failure of its parents? I mean, you don't want a kid getting into it either way, but when the side effect on one end is a hangover and on the other end is permanent blindness -- I think the less-poisonous route is better. JMO. YMMV.
Gasoline is a chemical mixture; not a chemical substance. There are different gasolines, and different blends have not only different AKI numbers but also different burn characteristics. All AKI grades of gasoline sold have the same approximate Btu content: it fluctuates a little, but there's very much more variation from summer to winter blends in the USA, than there is difference between the various AKI grades. In naturally aspirated engines, higher AKI values do not necessarily translate to better performance.
Also under "b" (remember the original topic?) -- after the fuel's AKI is the cylinder's bore diameter, closely followed by the combustion chamber design (not just the space in the head: the piston and the quench volume shapes also count), then the rl/s ratio. All these things interact, so the number of potential outcomes is theoretically infinitely large, although in the end, these can generally be categorized as "won," "placed," "finished," "DNF," and "DNS." Of those, "DNF" is probably the most expensive.
Wowser man, you really went to town on this, thank you so much. I agree on using bigger pins, want them to not flex, also make sure they will be lubed when using a vacuum pump. I do not want any heart warming friendships/fire. We have similar thoughts on kids. My feeling is that if there is no discipline from the get go, then your already behind the 8 ball. In my case, I don't drink ETOH, it have been 12 years this month. I would have never been the Dad I am, if I was drinking. To me kids need that guidance and interaction with parents. I see many just giving then electronics to keep them busy, they are very selfish. Kids need to learn all the things they teach them in school, how to have a garden, how to raise chickens, what trees are what, how to build a fire, and shoot a gun safely. These are the things that my parents taught me. What is right, and what is wrong. How to deal with injury, and pain. Be able to survive. I appreciate your technical discussion on strokers, these are the topics and details that no one talks about. Thanks for breaking it down for us to have a better understanding. Stay tuned my friend, way more in store.
☑️ Yep, since as far back as the mid 80s, I heard about, and even READ articles referring to the "351M-400". So I always assumed it was "a thing". Obviously not! Next, I guess you're going to try telling me that's NOT a factory/stock "265-289-302" engine in my 1984 Ford Escort! 😁
Yes me too. That is why I wanted to clarify, nothing that needs time wasted on. Now let’s get back to that small block ford in the escort, 🤔. Stay tuned, appreciate the comments
260” Ford, 265” Chevy
Love it let’s go I want some noise
Be patient young man, all in good time. Wife’s 354ci cleveland should be here on Friday. I will keep pressing on Edward
I agree with everything you said!
Thanks Bruce, appreciate the attention and interest. Don’t forget to subscribe and share. Much more to come
G’Day from the land down under 🇦🇺🇦🇺. May I ask what make and model those alloy heads were on the engine behind you in this video. Cheers Bloke, Andavagoodweekend 👍😎👍
Thanks mate. Those are Ford A3 heads, the first Ford aluminum Motorsport heads. Basically a filled and high ported iron 4v In aluminum.stay cool 😎 and stay tuned to DragBoss Garage
Many thanks for your wisdom Tim. The clevo seems to be makeing a strong comeback. Can you pls show us how to reson fill the block properly. Mike
Michael it sure is. You are most welcome. I plan on filling a block for up coming build, just my time is at a premium right now. Need to order some block fill too.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland i know what you mean, everyone is bissy, but will be good to see when you get to it. iv never done it before. Also talking about the oil system, a lot of clevo,s with hydraulic lifters will get ticy lifters on the left side after a good rev, this is a sign. i thought thats because the left side gets the oil last, im actualy thinking about opening the rear crossover a bit and useing the bypass tube. Because of this tic, people here in ozz in the day would warmup the engine at idle for ages, thus killing the bottem end with crank endfloat and rigging the cylinders. Its bit of a myth. I try to tell doods, once you,v got oil presure give it a rev or two and throw the rods strait n suff. Know one agree,s. I think idleing is the bigest killer of a V8.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland OW, One ather thing, i think only haveing two main oil galeries could be a good thing also. Their is less distance for the oil to travel. And blocking the front 1/2 passage is a muct now that you mentioned it, even for a mild build. Have a nice day Tim.
@@michaelgiglio1571 I have never ran juice lifters. To me I like to warm up to 160 and shut off and let heat soak a bit before I go blasting it. I don’t like them idling long, but that is me. Lots of vids on the way so glad your here and enjoying the channel.
@@michaelgiglio1571 thank you. I think biggest thing is to clean up major easy to get to galleys, smooth out and make better radius and turns. You have a better night talk to you.
dots next to the 4 on the head indicate casting revisions. same as 4M series cranks. the A and B (4MA, 4MA-B) is just a casting revision indicator.
That’s what I thought too. No secrets there William
4MA b is a crank of higher nodularity,
well there you go. learn something new every day. thanks. i'm a big clevo fan and plan to build a monster Cleveland. you might know more than me about Clevelands, so maybe you can help? i was told put main stud girdles to help stop them damaging the mains due to cap walk? i think that's what they called it? do you know if i was lied to? BTW just for a laugh. my dog is called cleveland. @@JosephCowen-ru7up
One thing that bothers me with car guys. They don't even know about the marine and industrial side of their favorite engine makers. How many Ford fans know Ford used D00E 1970 351W heads on marine 302's thru 1976? That's right, 351W heads on a 302 from the factory. Mine were cast Oct '75. Reside on my 302 in my '83 Ranger 4x4. 30 years in the marine business as a mechanic, it is a parallel universe. Sadly, there were no 335 marine engines
Dave O, I know. I am one, never was really into boats, but have learned a lot of new things, like a 429 head oh a 4cyl Ford, wow. Thanks for being here, I appreciate it man
I always had more wear on the 3/7 journal even with restrictiors between the crank & cam but i just changed them once a year. I kick big chevys in their pride with these little engines when i was a kid back in the 70s. My boss runs a 15 to 1 boss 302 on the dirt and laps the field of chevy big blocks. It is hilarious. It sounds different from anything else and turns 10,000 lap after lap. Everyone thinks he cheats.
That’s what I’m talking about, kicking As* and taking names. Cool to hear this. Really never had that many issues with oil, but not running round and round.
335 yeah!
Cleveland’s rule, thanks for watching. More to come
love drag boss info.very good.i had a 4v closed chamber 351c in my 85 mustang from 1991 to 2000.now same enging will be going in my 90 mustang after being put away for 21 years.current project.but the whole small block thing is not very important the engine just performes.but the 1994 motorsport svo catalog page 107.lists 351c as a small block?what gives.keep up the good work.
Anthony, what gives is that it all leads back to Cleveland’s and drag racing, so much more. So glad you have had great luck with cleveland keep your project going forward and enjoy the channel. Don’t forget to subscribe
You wouldn't happen to have a set of standard bore flat top forged used pistons for sale?
@@chuckhodges5584 I would have to check, Chuck, but pretty sure I don't. Glad your here. What are you building? Make sure you subscribe, way more to come.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland 1965 rambler american,9 inch 430 gear,aod trans. M code ,complete comp roller set-up. It's my rat rod,had it running but want to upgrade. Always loved those Cleveland's. I've got a 68 shelby GT 500 that I got in high school in 1975.sure enjoy all that old pro stock stuff,thanks. Chuck
@@chuckhodges5584 Thanks Chuck, for taking the time to share with us your plans, and Shelby Mustang. I had a 66 rambler, with the 199, and 3 on the tree. They sure are light, be deadly fast with a Cleveland... Thanks Chuck, more in store.
When the block gets filled do you use Embrco 885 mortar or Moroso hard block? Tia
Moroso. Then let the block sit a month is what I do. Then do all machine work needed.
After owning and building Cleveland's for over 40 years early Cleveland's are now 50 years old & are all past there use buy date rust & corrosion in the water galleries adding to the thin cylinder wall thickness plus most have been bored 30th there now only good for coffee tables the only decent Australian block is the XD & XE block commonly known as a pillow block due to the extra metal in the casting between the welsh plugs if your lucky enough to find a standard bore
BUT if you want to build a big a big horsepower Cleveland 600 to 900hp Dart block is the only option & build a Clevour
Competition engines or Dandy engines in Victoria Australia build the best motors in Australia.
I get it. You can always sleeve if needed. Have a few XE blocks. I do ok hp wise with my old 50+ year old Cleveland’s. Not going to build a Windsor. I know Frank Marchese from Dandy, he and I did a live chat together. Something in the works, stay tuned.
I'd call the Cleveland a small block because the 302 has a shorter deck hight than every other American v8 i would classify the 302 as an economy motor . But its really just semantics
AMC had oil problems and someone figured out to run a oil line from the front cam plug (in the lifter valley). And run it to the back of the motor.
Wow can do the same with Cleveland’s. Interesting to hear, no one has mentioned it, but we have not talked amc yet.
Great video and channel. Could you do a video on filling the cleveland block? Thanks
I probably will as I may need to start with a fresh block for my pro stock build, if I use this aluminum rods and pistons I have . Be a good vid for all thanks for the suggestion, just comes down to time frame, won’t be for a while, need to get that 409 done and too the dyno. I appreciate you taking the time and watching my channel. Don’t forget to like 👍 and stay tuned
Enjoy watching. I have a question , I have built a few 351c,now I am down to one that has open chamber 4 bbl. heads. If I use a dome piston with those would that be about the same as closed chamber heads with flat top pistons? Thanks for an answer.
Timmy, I really don’t know for sure, but you will still be higher with domes. The 73open chamber flow better than all others in that year.
You just have to try it and see what happens. Some places have better gas. So could be in your favor. But I would at least have 3 different cams to use and experiment with.
I have a 4v head question. Mine have pedestals,i can't afford to have them converted by the machine shop. I've seen the conversion kit from crane,would a stud girdle make the conversion studs more stable and stronger?
Stud would be a waste of time unless you will be running 7500+ has nothing to do with the conversion, for stability at high rpm thanks Roy
I actually used to hear guys call 351c a big block " cause it has big block heads" 😂
The engine is big and menacing looking. Chevy idiots don't know what to think of it.
Yea,the Cleveland head was on a 302 first. I guess they would want to call the boss 302 a big block
I've said for a long time, better too much than not enough!