Ford 351 Cleveland Oiling, The Truth, and More
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 9 ก.พ. 2025
- This is another video for my channel. what is unique about this is the explanation of the issues with the 351 Cleveland oiling system. I want to thank Jason Murphy from down under, and Tim Meyer, from TrackBoss performance products. Shout outs to Rusty Glidden, Dave Silva, Jimmy Huff, and Clarence Roye. I explain the difference between priority V Non Priority oiling. I also go into depth of the Cleveland oil system, with a detailed explanation, with never before seen video of the operation, and actual area of concern. Also the two most common ways to restrict the oil to the cam bearings. With details, diagrams, and actual video. I also cover, the ever famous auxiliary oi line. After you see this, you may change your thinking. I need to do another video, on the things I did not discuss, bearing clearance, oil types, or standard V high volume oil pumps. These topics will be another video. I think after you see this, you will see the Cleveland oiling system, in a whole different aspect. I know I missed some details, as there is so much to cover. I will get more in depth with subsequent videos. Please subscribe, and help me build my channel
Best explanation of the Cleveland oiling system ever. Thank you!
Glad you enjoyed it. Tried to make it Easy to understand. Thanks much Alex
I used to race these motors back in the day and I drilled through the main oil galleries on mains 2, 3, 4, and 5 up into the valley which were then taped with pipe dies. I took the plug out of the side of the block near the oil filter and ran a 1/2" oil line from that up through a hole I made in the top of the block in the back and plumbed that with copper pipe into all the holes I had drilled through the block into the valley under the intake. I then put restrictor plugs into the lifter galleries in main 1 above the 585 plug and 5 to reduce the oil going to them, and I plugged off the lifter gallery in mains 2, 3 and 4. With this modified oiling system. I turned my homemade Boss 351 at 8200 rpm's all day with no oiling related failures. If you have any questions just ask.
Sounds similar to Hank the crank system? Lot of work, but very interesting procedure.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I don't know who Hank the crank is, But he better not be trying to steal my thunder, lol
@FishNFoolLures he did something similar to this back in early 70s. I don’t go through all that. Simple 9qt pan, main restrictors, and cam bearing restrictors and good to go.
I've gotten have of what you explained figured out.
A couple of points I'm not sure of.
I did this about 25 years ago after seeing it explained in the Ford Performance engine book and either an old Hot Rod or SSDI magazine, the mod was probably 25years old even then. We ran restrictor plugs as well. We had lots of block cracking problems but we never suffered any bearing problems, in fact I am pretty sure we were still on the original rod and main bearings after several rebuilds. We had quite a few street miles and 100+ 1/4 mile passes @7500.
There are a couple of interesting videos explaining 351c oiling issues and solutions using fully grooved main bearings. I forget the guys (Australian) name but it is very informative. It explains an issue with phasing of the oil gallery drilling in the crank to the non grooved half of the main bearing coinciding with the compression stroke tdc. I have not explained that very well, they do a much better job. I believe there are 2 or 3 separate videos on it. Funnily enough the original Boss351 bearings were fully grooved, so the factory was aware of the problem, but replacements were not grooved.
If I was building another this is the way I would go coupled with lifter bore sleeves to limit oil loss there, and restrictor plugs.
I call you the Cleveland Proffesor! I want to turn my 357 at least to 9 when needed badly only but loving this video. Great great work!!! Can tell u did major research! U are the man
Good video for you to watch on oiling. Thank John, just DragBoss here.
Thank you for a great and informative video. I finally bought a -71 mach1 a year ago. Stock 4v 351. Car totally dissassembled since 1982 by previus owner, but engine was complete. I only checked that the main and rod-bearings was good. Then new oil and primed it and compression test, all looked good so I test started it couple of times. So I have put the engine in the car and now it need all wiring and fuel feed to be installed. I´m just a regular guy and new to projekt like this and just love it. In the future I will put in some performance stuff to it, so your videos is great help to me. Keep up the great work! Greetings from Sweden.
Thanks Joakim for commenting on my video. Glad you like it. Your car sounds wicked cool. Can you imagine driving a 500+ hp mustang through the street of Stockholm, yeah that’s the ticket. Be cool to see how she runs after you get it all back together. Keep us posted. Please help me build my channel in 🇸🇪. I need help, turn your buds on to DragBoss. Thanks again Joakim. 👍
I'm old. I remember when Cale Yarborough was running Fords, and Waddell Wilson was his engine man. Wilson had a series of articles in Hot Rod magazine, where he explained how he fixed the Cleveland's oil system to make it live for 500 miles plus at 8000 RPM. He also had a series on how he pinned the OEM heads to keep them from distorting too. It's worth looking those up, they have some great details.
That would be cool to find and see Wilson’s thoughts. I have seen heads pinned to. If anyone has this let us know. Thanks for watching and contributing. Channel is getting bigger by the minute, thank you.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I "pinned" that weak area of the head gasket surface on the BOSS 351 we ran in the 1970 BOSS 429 Mustang chassis in the old NHRA Modified Eliminator series back in the early 70's.
And as to that external "oil transfer tube" ... made out of AN aluminium tubing and fittings, BTW ... I don't know if I invented it or not, but we were using it back in 1971 and we were twisting the 351C to over 8,000 RPM while using a basically stock BOSS crank and rod assembly ... appropriately polished and shot peened, naturally.
In addition to virtually all the suggestions you referenced, I additionally reamed the "main" oil gallery to 5/8ths inch (if my memory serves me correctly 🤔), along with bushing the lifter bores serviced by that galley. Never had bearing problems while racing that combination ... knock on woodgrain. 🙂
@@johnjohnsn7633 Sounds like you had it going on back in the day, in 71 I was 6, and went for my first ride in a Shelby Mustang. So cool to have guys here that really raced at that time. Glad you here John. Hope others can benefit from your knowledge, and experience...Stay tuned.
“Ax-uhh-Larry” line?
I used it for the first time. Never saw any difference with or without. What is your experience with it?
Welp I will say this, you/this channel has gave me interest in a Ford engine for the first time in my life.
Sounds like the disease has started, explore the channel and tell me what you think. Thanks Rudy, make sure you like and subscribe please.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland subscribed long ago!!! I’m a super budget minded builder tho so we will see how I can make one stack up to my normal 350/400 sbc builds.
@@rudyjhughes They are not cheap by no means, but I bet head to head, sbc, and a 4v cleveland built similarly, will make more power from what I have seen at the track. It is when you start to buy the "good stufff" is when the sbc, will be more economical to build, without doubt. It would be a good comparison for sure, keep us updated Rudy, what are your thoughts?
@@DragBoss351Cleveland my plan was to build the Cleveland the way I would build a sbc, the best factory heads I can find with plenty of port work , gobs of compression and e-85 to help make up for lacks in other areas. This is going against everything I’ve ever believed in lol. It’s like I’m committing sin. 😂
@@rudyjhughes not a sin to learn. Just remember, it is not a sbc, and the most important aspect is cam timing. When it comes time for a cam, call Mark Chicone, at Bullet cams, he will help you for sure. they will not run a dam with cam in or at 110 degree ILC. Thanks for checking out my channel, and getting something out of it Rudy.
Hi Buddy, glad you're making video's and getting some interest in Cleveland's around the ridges. Its a great engine in its own right. Lots of good things about the Cleveland and thankfully they outweigh the negative aspects of the Cleveland design. Now a little info about oiling systems in general. They are a basically a controlled internal oil leak. Oil does not run through the galleries like air through ports in cyl heads or even water through a garden hose. Spending time chamfering, radiusing corners or sharp edges is somewhat of a redundant activity. Yes it would be nice to have those edges nice and smooth but honestly it doesn't help, it just makes you feel better when you look at it. The restricting and or enlarging oil passages do make a big difference and so a focus on that is more useful. I have been working on Clevelands now for over 30 years and i know a bit and still have a bit to learn, so I'm glad people like you get some discussion going.
Thanks for commenting and contributing to my channel. Sounds like you got it down. Yes your right about the internal leaks. Anything you can do to decrease stricture helps, the biggest ones, are the easiest to get to. The cleveland is an unique engine for sure, glad I started building and racing them for the last 39 years. Thanks for takings the time please like and subscribe. More to come, much more.
I always thought deburring and chamfering edges was not just about looks, or even hand safety, but the elimination of stress risers and crack potential. It IS a PITA! Maybe I’ll reconsider! 😂
@@mikemcleroy8265 I look at this way, every ounce counts. weather it is removing weight, or paying for it, every bit of extra effort in oiling will return in spades Mike McLeroy..Glad your here.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Trudat! It all adds up!
Hell Yeah!
Another great video! Thanks for the huge shout-out.. I want to see your channel grow because you have great content that needs to be told!
Thanks Andy, we both have something unique I enjoy your channel immensely. We could do a collaboration sometime, that would epic, stay tuned as there is so much more.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland heck yeah... When you get that ProStock engine going I would love to come and see it maiden voyage down the track! The bad part is you now have me wanting to build a Cleveland! We will definitely do something together down the road..
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage It is a possibility without doubt. Can you imagine our episodes, be whole nother level Andy. I got you covered with a Cleveland, have a short block just sitting in the corner, for the last 30+ years.
@@UnityMotorSportsGarage Andy, you gota build a 351 C or a 408 or whatever. Maybe a 335!
I was gonna build those headers for Dave and several other guys but couldn’t find the time. I watch your videos all the time. It’s been a big help
Thanks for the support. I’m glad your here and getting some ideas and help. Thanks for stopping by and taking the time. Way more to come
Man, I love this channel! My brother gave me his old cleveland motor. I'm going to rebuild it to smoke the tires a long way.
He put a jet engine in his Mustang last spring, and the chicks really dig him.
Thanks so much. All you need is a cleveland, you will think you had a jet.
Thanks!
Thank you so much for sharing this content. There's a lot of people like myself that were born after Clevelands had already disappearing. I had no Idea how extensive the 335s really were. Recently I acquired a early 71 M code Mach1(9/70) from my father inlaw. The engine has 2 flat cam lobes on #3. Bummer since it has less than a 100 miles on it. I don't plan on racing, but really look forward to experiencing Cleveland power for the first time. The information you share is greatly appreciated and enjoyed. I can say this, the 335s have a completely different sound that I love!
Thanks Daniel, love those Stangs. You better pull it down and make sure debris not through the motor. You can make easy upgrades, that will have your Cleveland running past the pack. Please like and subscribe.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I used to race these motors back in the day and I drilled through the main oil galleries on mains 2, 3, 4, and 5 up into the valley which were then taped with pipe dies. I took the plug out of the side of the block near the oil filter and ran a 1/2" oil line from that up through a hole I made in the top of the block in the back and plumbed that with copper pipe into all the holes I had drilled through the block into the valley under the intake. I then put restrictor plugs into the lifter galleries in main 1 above the 585 plug and 5 to reduce the oil going to them, and I plugged off the lifter gallery in mains 2, 3 and 4. With this modified oiling system. I turned my homemade Boss 351 at 8200 rpm's all day with no oiling related failures. If you have any questions just ask.
Mr dragboss, I had oiling problems with my 351C with 4V heads. It started after I decided to go wild and have my engine really perform. I never had any problems when it was stock and only putting out 300hp. I had cleaned the inside of the block and debured sanded and used armature paint to coat oil return passages back from the head all the way down to the oil pan. I had oil restrictors to the cam bearings too! My 351C with 4V heads was ported and polish with a wild Crane billet roller cam. Gross lift almost 0.750" 312 duration. 1150cfm dominator, modified Super Competition Hooker Headers. Pretty much straight headers but with the collectors. After many years later I figured the the reason I had oiling problems was due to acceleration. This 1970 Mustang fastback was a light stripped down version without any frills. It put me in the seat so hard that reaching for the shifter required lifting on the gas pedal.
That was what the cause, acceleration put me pinned in the seat and the oil in the oil pan pinned to the rear of the oil pan. The answer would have been creating a oil pickup for the rear of the engine which would have solve the oil starvation problem. Please comment back if the find this post.
Thanks Greg for watching the video and commenting. You are 100 percent right. One of the most important aspects of oil control and adequate supply is you need a big sump, 8+qts, I had issues too and then learned a few tricks and have been good ever since. Yes I also just leaned that the pan shape also affects oil control and you are best to have a square pan in rear, the stick pans are poorly designed in regards to windage. I am burning a video, right now with interview with Trickie, from the famed Australian engine builder/racer team of Trick and manswetto. Wait until you hear his opinion. Glad your here Greg. Way more in store hopefully post tonight.
Whoever built Benny Gatts Clevos, must know a legal F""ck ton about them.
I would say so.
Motor plate. Rear sump. 12 quarts of oil. Remote filter, two of them. Braided lines.
Only one thing chevy has over our Ford's. Rear sump.
Excellent content. Always look forward to seeing your Cleveland info. Great in-depth knowledge you share. Not very many of the Cleveland die hards left.👍
Thanks for the kind words. I try to give back and keep the Cleveland alive. More to come my friend, thanks for subscribing. Please 👍 and share.
I just picked up a new project car and now I found your channel with great information.
It's an all Original unopened BOSS 351 swapped into 1986 Hatchback Foxbody.
I'm very interested in learning pushrods again after running Modulars for so long.
Liked/Subbed.
Sounds like a good find. Any boss engine should have D1ZX part numbers, I did a whole video on rec room geometry there’s a link to it you can check it out make sure watch my channel. Stay tuned.
Mid Lift Theory /Rocker Arm Geometry, Laser Guided Precision.
th-cam.com/video/1fU8jAz5RGw/w-d-xo.html
Perhaps the best video on the subject. Thank you.
Thanks Gurney, it help me to make the video and give me a better understanding of the path of the oil, And potential issues. And your options to improve.
There is a really good video, I will try and find it where the guy shows how the oil drain back in the heads is the actual cause of the issue. The heads need to have almost 2 quarts each before they start drawing back. This cause the sump in the oil pan to run dry unless your running and extra large pan. I never thought about it this way but after he put the valve comers in and starts filling them up, you can’t deny it, the drain back holes almost run up hill and they designed the heads like this to keep oil in the heads to keep the springs cool.
I saw that before. Not totally convinced that, but I’ve always ran a deep pan and never worry about it. 9 quarts and I had no issues. I do open up all the drain bags, make sure they all lineup, especially the heads in the front they never lineup correctly. I talk about it my oiling video. I’ll put a link here. When I start doing some block work with deburring, and cleaning up the oil galleys. Appreciate being here. PS my kids and I have talked about getting bees.
Ford 351 Cleveland Oiling, The Truth, and More
th-cam.com/video/fBSeHpaT3Rw/w-d-xo.html
Thanks for the info you share as not many cleveland freaks here around kc.I have seen that video and I believe that ,along with all other mods with large pan,all helps flow.I have been running a 1971 4v 351c 2bolt block that my friend Ray,and I built in my basement in 1979-1980.513 lift/292 duration Mellings hyd.flat tappet(now roller rockers and conversion kit from Crane)h/v melling oil pump,70,000 mi on motor now and never been apart.I run the oil line front to back for about 20 yrs ago or so 4.71 spooled 9" I built,top loader 4- speed ,adj.press.plate 4 puck bronze metallic. Street car 1,000 miles a yr or so,but 1/8-1/4 mile at a time!
Have been watching, Great job today, Thanks for taking the time with pics!
Your most welcome. Please subscribe and help me build my channel. Glad you enjoyed it.
Love these education videos hope you keep making them. I got the 400m boat yard motor. But having knowledge from the guy's who have been there. 500 passes on a motor means you've learned a lot. Oiling a stock motor an cooling it was rough issue from it's stock form so restricted. Make's sense faster you can get the motor on the top front n back the faster you can reduce friction. Mechanical oil pump on my 400m running Lucas Motor oil at only 80,000 mile's failed. Truck has sit 16 year's now. After replacing it with another Mechanical pump I felt stupid knowing oiling an cooling was a issue. Putting a patch back to the problem wasn't my intention.
Thanks man. Now better get it back going, 16 years is too long to sit idle.
How do you know the oil pump failed ? Oil drive shaft between distributor and pump twist/ break ?
Did you drop the pan ?
Missing what your saying Cam?
Hey Tim Great educational vid,i was thinking it great to have Tim Meyer on your show sometime with his cleveland products,because he is one that is keeping the Cleveland alive,i second it mate clevelands make power
Yes we talk and text regularly, I could arrange that, I also have a few people I want to interview also so would make for spectacular information. Thanks for thinking along the same lines, cause Cleveland’s make power 👍
8 minutes of talking bullshit without any information at all How is that educational
Another great video, from my experience and research, aeration of the oil is a big factor , which in my case running hydraulic lifters , had a hard time stopping valve float , even as low as 5000 rpm’s , installed solid lift cam rev to the moon , put did it just mask the aeration? The line from the front to back from what I understand minimizes the aeration. My new Cleveland I installed Tim Myers cam bearings, plugged the half inch hole on number 1 journal , full groove bearings, and Denny Wydendorf diy lifter bore bushings (super easy to do at home) standard pump , and never looked back , also it basically turned my block into a priority main .
Thanks John for watching and sharing your real world experience. Not sure on your issue, I have never ran a hydraulic cam. Looks like you got it figured out. When I think of valve float, I think weak springs, but again no juice cam experience. Denny messaged me and we are going to chat. I have never ran bushings, and have seen his kit installed. Who knows maybe he will sponsor me, and we will put a set in and an episode. Be cool for sure. Aeration could be happening, also. I found you need a large sump, where I am at. All good things to consider to help optimize your oiling system. Glad your here and stay tuned
Thanks tim for the shout out.!! keep doing what your doing..!!
Your welcome my friend, keeping the Cleveland alive, like you. Stay tuned, way more to come.
Good morning to you and your family Tim!
Good evening to you and your family John!
I'm a little late but I just sent some prayers to the Glidden family and my father said it is never too late just as long as you try and give it your best shot as long as you know that you can safely do it without hurting someone else doing it. God bless you all and hope it goes well for everyone and hope the Glidden family pulls through.
Prayer does amazing things. Thanks for caring and not sure what is issue with Gliddens?
@@DragBoss351Cleveland it is a older video and it mentioned it so we did what was asked for and as you said, a little prayer and my time hurt no one only helped I hope. Great Friday to you and your weekend may be blessed also to accomplish something you need or would like to have done. !😉
@@johnelliott7375 ok. All good then. Just remember positive in and positive out. Have a great day, god bless you and your family.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I appreciate and agree with that and I will do that for you also. Great weekend to you also
Hey Tim , I had to change my handle from The Ghost of Tom Joad to my new one because of people trolling on me. I really enjoyed the Q&A with Brent Lykins the other day. Brent has come a long way. The Darin Morgan Q&A a while back. Most of all I enjoy what you are doing, the family and the community! Great stuff to share. Many people diss the FE for its oiling, but when you do a Chevy, it’s the same annular groove behind the cam bearings . SBC. Lol.
Thanks Bb stay cool. Don’t sweat the little stuff. Family First
Hello again from Mt. Vernon home of Pacemakers Raceway Park. Great video as always Tim. I am behind you on the Cleveland is NOT a small block thing.
I'm a long time authority on Fords myself. As a matter of fact, several of us longtime ford guys around here agree with ya, we simply call em Clevelands.....
They do bolt up in place of most 65 1/2 and newer Windsor series engines but share little else. The 351/400 M engines are a Cleveland Family member too sharing many parts but bolt to a 385 series bellhousing and are rarely referred to as Small blocks and are definitely not considered a big block.
My point here is simple: Anyone here who knows fords are well aware of the more complicated and different engine family's and simply embrace them based on development time periods in Fords life rather than the Chevrolet inspired labeling of small and big block in which many parts and dimensions are shared in each family. Me and my brother do Pontiacs too and from 326 to 455 cubes they share all outside dimensions for the most part. No 400 big block in that family....lol
Thanks Doctor Romex. Appreciate your opinions and thoughts on the topic. I have always called it a cleveland to, and not 335 series. I really don’t call it a sbf. Like I said to each his own and the fact that guys are into this whole topic and channel is exceptional. I need to make it point to run at pacemakers this year, last time I was there won a bracket class with UFO, United Ford Owners club that had to be 2005/6. Have not been back since. I am really not that far away. Norwalk is only 20 minutes from my home so usually go there or 42. Keep on the Tube, and let’s get down to business. Stay safe, stay fast, and stay tuned
So how does the 302 Cleveland change the narrative of small block or not as size or cubic displacement seems to play abig part in people's determination
Here in America we dont have 302 Clevelands, just the Boss 302 and the 302 or 351 Clevor hybrids.
@@Hitman-ds1ei there are a bunch of factors, I was merely speaking from ID purposes. So glad you took the time to watch and comment. Appreciate it, please subscribe and like 👍
Doctor; you failed to mention the rather rare 400M with "dual pattern" bell housing drillings: both the 6-Bolt "Windsor" pattern and the larger "385-Series" (370, 429, 460) pattern.
Hey Tim,. We met at national trail back in 2006 on Labor Day weekend nmra. All ford weekend. We pitted beside each other. I have a ,1980 foxbody cobra. Had a great weekend. I runnered up on Sunday. Glad you still have the cougar
Man Gary, those were the days. My favorite time period of racing, 1998-2010, met a ton of people and the racing events were fantastic, Fun Ford, Ford Expo, nmra, myself and you may have met them, all raced together. Think I had my new 385 at that time we pitted next to each other. Glad you still have your Cobra, I have had mine since 1981. I don’t even know how many years that is. Glad you’re here, have you seen my channel previously?💯🏁🇺🇸
Tim great video for this shade tree mech. I have 73 Gran Torino with the original 351 Cleveland and lost my uncle and his shop last year which was my machine shop to rebuild it and now i am learning to do it myself
Phillip, you welcome. Love that year Torino, I had a 75 great car. I have done a lot of my own work, and have learned along the way. If you look. All to the beginning of the episode, my good friend who was helping me with my 409 machine work had died, just after machine work was done. Tough to find a good machine shop. Almost seems like trade not many are going into. Thanks for watching and way more to come
Great info I am in Australia. I have a 408 Stroker in My Cleveland XB Falcon GT four door great engine and when it comes out again it will be getting a lot off these little tricks thank You. the Cleveland Engines has been raced a large amount in Australia we love them Thanks Mick.
Your welcome Mick, what year is the XB? Glad you enjoy my channel and getting something from it, thanks for watching and commenting. Please subscribe and like 👍 and stay tuned
1976 XB Drag Boss
@@svenomick5857 had to google pic, make sure I knew what it was. Bad ass for sure mate. Glad Your here, please share my channel with your Motörhead buds
Yes Drag Boss I am putting it up on My FB. Seen the oiling line for sale on Gumtree I in joy how in-depth You are, also great to see the Family into it, keep up the great work. Must say I like how no coolant runs in the inlet Manifold off the 335 series engine Also the Falcon XB off mine is a May 1976 GT it is Snow White they only made 1950 four Door from 73 to June 76 and around 750 GT Coupes in the XB Model were Made have a good one.
@@svenomick5857 yes I am going to put one on my 409 I think too. Your welcome, I try to be complete but sometimes I miss things or overlook. I love it when my girls help me in the shed. Glad your here and helping me build my channel.
Wow. As a Health Care worker from 2005 to 2016, I see you got the Oilo Pulminary system and its hardened artery junctions totally explained. Rock on that 585, 500, 313 and 250 thou sh!÷. G
I know it, Broke down, and layed out. Now get your changes made and the show rolls on....
This is your most informative, most useful vid yet...
May I humbly post some additions ?
Long time ago I wanted to determine just how much oil was leaking around the right side bank of the lifter bores and thus understand just when and if I should sleeve these lifter bores( yes...I had all the tooling). I used a pressurized oil tank to feed oil to a 351-C long block (thru the oil-pump feed hole) that had no oil pan or intake manifold fitted. Obviously I had a catch basin underneath to control the mess. Upon having first applied pressure, I was AMAZED by the oil POURING out of the #1 journal/housing bore. This led to my modifying not just 351-C's but all small-block fords that are of a similar configuration. My mod was similar in concept to what you have shown/explained here. I made a thread-in sleeve that was drilled to the same hole size as the feeds in mains 2-5, and then plugged that drilling going from #1 main to the #1 cam housing bore. If you take a moment to check out Dart sbf's, the best ones have resolved this same issue.
Now that you've got all this oil make'n it to the right side lifter/main oil galley...you might want to consider some restrictor pushrods...less your right valve cover becomes the oil pan...;-)
I think a single stage external pump feeding an AN-90deg hose end theaded into the back of the right lifter/main oil galley is the "hot lick"...and you get to mess easily with pressure settings...
I also believe getting oil to the rod brg is the #1 issue...not to mention the rod journal diameters...rod brg width, clearance, eccentricity, crush...crank oil passages...heat treat...brg coatings...possible main brg mods...crank material...yaada...yaada...yaada...
Ohhh...I have a question for Rusty...Was Bob mess'n with "Distance Between Bore Centerlines"...one of my favorite topics...
Keep up the good work Tim !!!
All good info David, Tim Meyer had said the same about number one, having so much oil. I have to quite a few guys, all with similar stories and different fixes. The best I have seen, includes restrictors in the galleys themselves, will oiling directly to mains from external oiling. I have the old hank the crank set up, and I can see where they would have drilled up through main feed into valley, to directly place additional feeds in to feed of main along with galley restrictors. Lots of fixes, to me is what do you really need for the average guy. I am going to work on another vid, with more in depth info, on pumps, and bearing clearances, pans, oil control. Be so nice to have a block like Dart with dedicated galley to the mains. For the 409, probably going to add the auxiliary line. Subsequent builds will get the work over. Almost tempted to install the hank the crank and modify and restrict galleys, wait until I get to that point. Tons of good info and experience here for sure. Thank you David for helping me build my channel, and providing us all with your insight. Stay tuned
D.S. …………..back in the day Glidden used to put pipe cleaners in the pushrods , they make prickley one that works perfect !!!!!!
@@dannycalley7777 cool info to know I have heard that before. Wondered if the debris from cleaner, the fibers get into oil? How do you know he did this? Thanks for tuning in Danny
@@DragBoss351Cleveland D.B. ………..in a Magazine ,back in the Pinto era , 73 74s , he didn't run the H.T. C. system either that's the best I can remember and as much they changed valve springs and engines those small fibers , getting pushed thru at 100 psi were the least of him and Etta's worries ? P.S. I read an article on Grumpy same time , he was using a block from his towing rig that had over a hundred thou on it in his race car , Chevys were bad for core shift ,and offsetting of the cam journals, blocks were 2 or 3 out of a hundred according to him ?????
I think he was dry sump 72 up,
I'm a cleveland guy. Mine is a 1970 boss casting, .030 over, 56cc closed chamber aussie heads, lunati bracket master cam(4 deg. adv.), dual plane intake with divider completely removed. Stock rotating assy. About to put 2 small turbo's on it, 8psi waste gate pressure. In a 73 mustang. There is a learning curve on these motors for sure.
Your car will be making some crazy power with boost, I worry about the increased cylinder pressure, but with 8 lbs or less you should be fine. Hope your cr is not too high. Thanks for the kind words. Glad your here. Please like and subscribe, way more to come
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I subbed.
I worry about compression too. It's around 10:1 I am going to start with some very low timing, like around 16 and raise it incrementally keeping a check on the plugs. I'll set the final timing based on the timing line on the electrode and how they overall look. I shift at 5k, so I'm not looking for high RPM. It shouldn't starve for fuel. I have A/F gauge to monitor.
I wish I had a dyno.
@@starbattles1 I always use total timing at rpm, I lock my distributor, runs way better, idles better. Yes, 10:1 is a bit high, but if your not beating it to bad may be fine. I would be pulling that to at least 6k, let it stretch its legs.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I really wish I had gone with roller cam when I built it. I will next time it comes out and apart. But I need to do fuel tank swap with elect. fuel pump in tank. Already have it, just need to do it. I figured out these mechanical fuel pumps, even good ones, don't like rpm's over 5k. When I would run it to 6k the fuel pumps wore out super fast. Since I made 5k my shift point I stopped going through fuel pumps.
It was first built with flat tops, 14:1 high rpm intake and 3k stall.
I had to dial it back to the open dual plane dish top's and 2200 stall to make it derivable around town. That's why I want the turbo's. Keep the drivability I have now, and get back the power I gave up, plus some.
And it's a real sleeper too. Very unsuspecting looking. I hope to call it the Hell Cat killer.
@@starbattles1 Hell Cat Killer in the house. I can understand what your saying, I gave up on mech pumps, in 1998. And then only ran Barry Grant until this new build, and now sponsored by Pro Systems, so running his venom carb, and 440gph electric fuel pump. If you need anything, call and talk to Patrick at Pro Systems, tell him I sent you. Keep us all posted with the build, thanks for taking the time to contribute. Be safe, and be fast...
My uncle was a ford motor builder for a stock racing team. He likes the windsor block with Cleveland head. He told me that's what they used in Nascar
Great package too
Great info tim well done I've been doing ristrictors and line from front to rear for a long time without any problems
Thanks Tony for taking the time to give us your experience. I have never ran one, but will from now one. Explore my channel and tell me what you think. Thanks for watching and contributing
I built a 351C in the 80’s with mostly stock parts, roller cam and roller rockers. The motor in a Mach 1 with FMX it made 500+hp at crank in 86. Trouble was trans for us but 500 or so in a street car making 380 at the wheels, chassis was crap and flexible! Loved that motor!
thanks Paul, love hearing these stories. If you would have a good, C4, it would have been a different story, and you probably bend it up. Thanks for being here, make sure you subscribe, so you don't miss anything.
Hi Tools, what mods did you have on your Cleveland for the 500HP?
@@DragBoss351Cleveland what the auto trans to have? And what is manual was an option?
@jamesmedina2062 to me a C4, and toploader works well, but nothing like a jerico for racing, sticks only from word of mouth, never raced one yet. But installing on one now in mock up.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland what if you just want to have fun on the street? Tremec t-5 or top loader?
Great vid Tim. Great to see you tapping into Tricky for the skinny on Clevo myth busting. He built many a serious street / track mill back in the day. That reminded me of Benny Gatt and his 7s / 6 almost Blown Xa coupe. Rarely gives out interviews, who even thou must be getting on, is another wealth of info on this subject. Be worth seeing if you could interview him for sure. Keep up the great work. I'm a barra convert now but still love my clevos.
Thanks for checking out my Channel, Hopefully can get Trickie to chime in for an interview next week. I am finally good to go with wifi out to my garage. I will have to inquire about Benny, and see about contacting him. glad you stopped by, explore the channel, and see what you can find. Stay Tuned.
The 351c is the strongset engine we ever had in Australia,,
And the biggest v8 us Aussies had
@@chaseattenborough6483 The biggest lump!! A LOT of oiling issues
@@ldnwholesale8552 yeah because the the xa gt coups had a lot more GeForce which meant that there was a lot of oil slosh and they only had a 4.0l sump also cams didn’t allow dry sump systems so go do your research you drongo
@@ldnwholesale8552 Well they used to run them up to nearly 10,000 rpm in pro stock racing.Bob Glidden ,and others won big with these engines in The US .As well as the likes of Greg Flaherty with his Shotgun Falcon here in Oz .So the problems can't have been too bad.
@@chaseattenborough6483 Very true!Allan Moffat asked them many times for a dry sump system to be allowed and they said no at that time.
Love your Channel Tim , Great Info , Clevelands Forever!
Thanks Jason,glad you stopped by, make sure you subscribe, so you don't miss anything...Stay Tuned
Hey there! I'd like to add to this as my family had built a Cleveland back around '02-'04, and other than the 385-series and other popular ford motors, and other surprising engines created by other manufacturers (story for another day)... Cleveland is by far my absolute favorite.
So back then, our factory 2-bolt block had the following done
.030 overbore
PME (Price Motorsport Engineering Inc) Main Oil Restrictors (installed in only mains 2, 3 and 4)
External Oil Line (originally ordered from MPG Heads)
Standard Oil pump with Ford Racing High Pressure spring
Unfortunately we never raced it or dyno'd, and then take it apart to see the results... If i remember correctly, never went above 80 psi cold; but with a melling HV pump it shot past 110 psi. Never had any loss substantial loss in normal oil pressure when running hot either.
This thing pegged 7k off the rev limiter pretty quickly as you'll see in an old video of mine around '05 (1972 Mustang 393): th-cam.com/video/jmjaSIz4lPE/w-d-xo.html
Combination:
4V Heads with bowls touched up, 3-angle valve job - can't remember what type of valves or length, standard dia.
about 11.5:1 Comp - ran on either 110 or 112 Oct.
Edelbrock torquer untouched
750 holley DP with 780 main body (forgot the kit name from Jegs at the time) - should've done 950 like we were told lol
1.73 Harland Sharp Rockers
Custom Crower Cam: 232/248 @ .50, .584/.614 Valve lift - 112 Lobe sep
Scat forged crank 3.85" - Probe 4.030" pistons - cant remember size of the rods but I'm sure you'll know, but they're scat H-beams
2" Hooker headers - 3" Exhaust with X-pipe and Flowmaster 50's dumped
C4 Tranny with 9" Rear and 4.10's - 28" - 275/60's out back
Pretty nice for a street/strip application.
Like said, never dyno'd but it had to be pushing somewhere close to, or above 500's at the crank..
We once installed the weiand tunnel ram with dual 440 center squirters with modded brackets and restricted at the meters with paper clips to dump less fuel.. Although we couldn't close the hood (lol), and our eyes were burning.. we could easily tell that the motor WOKE UP straight from Idle... Hence, makes sense why we were recommended to use a bigger carb.
Also, even though the throttle response was pretty spectacular from the initial combination itself, it most definitely sounded like it was improved with the tunnel ram.
Just goes to show you what these heads are capable of.. I'm sure raising the exhaust would assist, but if you could tune other parts of the motor, like cam timing.. I'm sure this portion could be overlooked if it's not for racing only
Keep up the great work! I may still be considered a 35-year old kid, but I love the history and hearing about all the folks from back when this motor was in its hay day!
Gregory, that sounds like a killer combination, and even the video proves it. The only thing that I thought would be too wide is the lobe separation angle at 112. But hey it look like it was working. Just think a how it would ran if you’re able to race it, after you got the carburetor adjusted, that thing would’ve been more of a monster. I’m glad you took the time to tell me your combination, it’s cool to see what other people building, the results. Way more in store, just wait until 427 TrackBoss comes out, I think you’ll like that too.
Awesome job putting a lot of detail into what can be done at home to get the best out of the oiling system without breaking the bank; even with the DIY lifter bore bushing kit on the market some people just want do do what they can for a few bucks to maximize the oiling efficiency. I spent a lot of time researching all this stuff before doing essentially what your describing. Most DIY guys are gonna have all the tools needed to smooth out and radius these galleys and put in a restrictor kit; great job.
Not sure if you mentioned but for the restrictors; if your running a hydraulic cam they say to leave out the rear lifter galley restrictor as they need more oil.
Thanks Troy for the info. I did not mention that with hydraulic lifters. Good point, I never raced with anything buddy solid/solid roller cams. Yes they can clean lots of areas with minimal tools. Thanks again, stay tuned.
Love the solid flat tappet I put in mine; really woke it up a lot over the hydraulic it had in it before!
@@troyberg65 no doubt, I have never ran a Cleveland in racing with a juice cam, only solid or roller. Went from 12.05 to 11.25 with only changing from solid to solid roller. Put I. A roller and see the difference. Obviously one that will fit your combo and valve clearance. Thanks Troy
@@DragBoss351Cleveland that really is a wild difference; I haven't made my final decision on cam but I am going to be running just iron 4V heads; probably the closed chamber ones (have both) current stock bottom end unit is running lunati 30320512 and its a very fun motor; and the whole cam setup was very inexpensive. Where as just the cost of good roller lifters for a cleveland cost well over the cost of everything for the flat tappet. Defiantly lots of benefits to the roller; but it is a mostly occasional street driven car with the odd friday trip to the strip.
@@troyberg65 match the cam to the combo, if it is what works for you, roll with it. Your right lifters bare minimum $700, or up. Nice cam, $400, right valve springs pac, nice locks and retainers. $500. $1500-1800, depending on options. Once you drove it, you would never go back. The ground shaking, it’s all good stuff. Stay tuned.
I'm finally getting around to seeing this video in its entirety. Great stuff. I agree with @ford-speed about trying to chamfer and clean the galleys. I never did it with a Cleveland, but in later years we experimented with Extrude Honing, especially for cooling. Just one idea; I know, this was a year ago, but something to consider. I will also send you an E-mail with some ideas we used back in the early 80's. We would tap into the right side lifter feed and plumb directly to the left side. I have been trying to find old notes, doodles and what ever information I still have. The other great trick was to start by re-aligning the lifter bores. I was taught that they were horribly aligned from the factory and for street applications, it legitimately increased vacuum and increased oil flow by relieving torsional stress. I think that the legendary Hansens Machine in Santa Fe Springs showed me that for almost all Ford Engines.
Phil, thank you so much. Once I get caught back up, which is sometimes slow for me with everything going on. I’m going to rework the oil galleries, I have a buddy in Australia, and I’ve mentioned before Jason Murphy, and he does this to the max extent. It has his own pictures that he was going for five for me when I make a video. I have heard about trying the lifter bores. And I think BHJ come I made a tool for this. I know Tim Meyer, who is making a aftermarket track boss Cleveland Block. It’s going to do a new printing service for Cleveland blocks. To true lifter bores. I also have a Hank the crank oil system. I’m going to do a video on. Stay tuned, email me when you get a chance.
Bloody awesome ive literally just received my heads and intake from CHI here in Australia! I will be doing these mods before i assemble my engine 😎😎
Thanks Ryan. Look through all my other vids and see what you find. Lots of info. Good luck with your build. Cleveland’s to the front.
Flex Hone makes 1/2 inch hones in a couple different grits. If you take one and weld on an extension made out of a tube. You can reach any where in the block. I've also heard the Cleveland called a "medium" block.
Thanks Timothy for looking out, sounds like you been there. Thanks for watching and giving some tips. This can benefit all. Make sure that you subscribe and stay tuned.
Ford literature first called the two 351's medium blocks. W & C. So what you heard was true. I remember reading that in the 70's.
If you start collecting Hot Rod magazine of the time period, you will occasionally read it stated. " medium " block.
Small block and big block is GM nomenclature, not Ford.
Good tutorial
in any engine, oiling and filtration are the keys for longevity, you discuss about the 351C engine, your application seems to be for high RPM use ( That I qualify of overspeeding ) but it have its utility too in more conservative applications as marine where the engines are operated for long periods near the maximum RPM. For any engine, the study of the oiling diagram and the actual oiling network offers opportunities for improving at about zero cost the time ( mileage ) between overhauls ( TBO)
Jacques, you are so right. Lots of my tips, or solutions, are good for any engine, not just Clevelands. Anywhere you can reduce strictures, and improve the path and flow, is a win win situation. Glad your here appreciate your thoughts. Don't forget to like and subscribe please. Thank you.
Tim I have drilled out some of the oil passages and then run a small ball hone throught them and used a hi volume oil pump with the normal restrictor kit that worked for me love the content cheers from downunder
Thanks Alan, appreciate the heads up. I have done bare minimum too, and luckily survived. But after this dissection, some changes in the future. Thank you all from down under, Australia 🇦🇺 👍
Just a small note: when you remove the oil filter adapter nut on a well used Cleveland block, you'll often find a gob of hard varnish back behind the adapter. Just another reason to use Tim's big bore fitting.
Never seen that, but believe it, depending on oil change frequency.
Mr dragboss, continued from 1st comment: I looked a the issues of creating a rear oil sump pan for my 1970 Mustang fastback. The steering center link passed below the oil pan in the rear and a support bar for the frame, both in the way. I did have a Mellings high volume oil pump and chrome moly oil pump rod. It would require a specially built oil pan that would allow the steering link and support to pass through the oil pan
So true. My Cougar is in chassis shop right now, all stock steering linkage ans box are gone. Custom cross member so I can run a rear sump, makes so much difference. Bearing clearance, and all the other things you mentioned help build a strong oil system. Stay tuned
I run oil restricted kit . Stock steel pump. I built the motor 95 and still runs great with no rebuilds. I do run 7qt pan.... I only turn it 7/7500. Block is pour. Steel crank 6.200 rods with stock heads. I ran a 10.48/130 mph.....
Robert, sounds like a stout, and strong Cleveland. I appreciate you stopping by, ,like sure you like and subscribe, way more to come.
Thank you,cash racer here,but thinking.about going back to the.track been 146 on the quarter at 8500 rpm and ran 10.50 at127 mph(no secret) with 300 six with cam and dumptruck turbo except rod bolts,all junkyard fresh
@@MrHowie34 Sounds like you have a plan, Greg, good to see some numbers, impressive. Crazy how much power a turbo can add. Get to the track, and rack up some cash..
Ran a Cleveland for many years and set so many national records I quit framing them in my dad's super stock GT/C Thunderbird with motors my dad built. Had 2 bolt main blocks with stock 4MA cast cranks flat top pistons super stock legal closed chamber 4V heads vacuum secondary carburetor no two step or rev limiter turned clutch loose at 8,750 and shifted at 8,000 best 1/8 was 6.17 @ 108 1/4 9.60 @ 141 at 3180 pound's.
Those are hauling Cleveland’s for sure. Good to see stock parts can take a beating. Very fast. Any specs you remember? Thanks for watching
Nice work mate Yes Aussie here lol Have owned 6 clevelands over the years and rebuilt 2 and first thing was (By recommendation from drag racers,Mechanics etc that knew the engine) drill the valley in specific location (Lifter) radius and chamfer holes then slippery paint Next was high volume pump with oil restriction via spring pressure in the pump then pull threaded plug from front left side of block and pipe oil to rear so mains got the oil first (So they said)
Never understood Ford logic here as Crank spins twice the speed of camshaft but all good,
Now this was told and shown to me as a youngish bloke in 1982/83 and 2 bolt block correct crank prep and matching of parts and 5-550HP with iron heads 2V but 4V intake valves and was also told never over exhaust these old gals No more than 75% on the exhaust (Tri Y headers not tuned unless 4v big port heads and high comp - 3 inch mandrel exhaust max or twin 2.5inch and we got 520hp no issues revved to 7000 and only issue was that bloody thermoquad lol - Great video and yes Im subscribed Cheers and G'day from Queensland Australia
Good day mate! Good to see you here. Sounds like you have all the tricks. I always say do what works for you. Sounds like you got it. Thanks for the sub, more Cleveland Coming, stay tuned.
I rebuilt a 1970 351 Cleveland closed chamber 4v head motor in the 80s. I installed new bearings, rings and cam, it was call a Fireball hyd lifter from Crane. I cleaned up the 11.1 stock forged pistons and ring groves. I installed a Melling hi volume oil pump (Big mistake) with stock 5 quart pan. I installed a electronic ignition and wires. I installed a set of hooker headers, and new exhaust system all the way back. I keep the stock intake and ran a Holley 650 carb with open element air cleaner. I broke it in very easy, keep the rpms below 4,000 in my 1970 Mustang. It was hard to do because it was a 4 speed car with 3.90 rear gears. Now that the engine was well broken in, about 1000 miles, I was off to the track, Fremont Drags in California. Well I didn't quite make it, I got into a race with a newer Z28 Camaro 80s on the freeway. I brought the rpms for the first time above 6000 and man that engine pulled really hard. I was about to hit 4th and I hurt a ticking sound Rods. I drove it back home easy and pulled valve covers off and saw gold flakes in oil. Next I dropped the oil pan. What I saw was flake's of bearing all inside of oil pan as well. I grab the connecting rods and they were all loose. I even saw slight impression of piston contacting the heads.The story is true, they run the best before they go, but that Z28 Camaro couldn't get around me until I shut her down. Years later I learn the oiling system on the 351 Cleveland motor needs to be modified. That was my experience on the 1970 351 Cleveland 4v motor, that engine didn't have much low end, but get in it around 3000. And it just pulled harder as rpms went up. My question is, if Ford knew about this problem why didn't they fix the oiling system? I'm sure I wasn't the only one with a sad story
Well quite the story Van. Sorry you had issues. Sounds like one hell of a ride. Hope you fixed it and worked the oil system over. Thanks for watching and commenting
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Nope, I sold it as is for 1,300.00 cash.I was hurt, and disappointed to the core.I spent hard money (Saving) and time building, cleaning, and dreaming about my 1970 Mustang.I was 28 -29 I didn't want to spend another dime on it. My family was growing at the time. But I do still miss that car from that day on. 🤣🤣
Time to get another one, while you can. Think how much fun it would be. And you can fix any issues now. Thanks
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Now that the kids are gone, I went out and bought a 2018 SS Camaro with 8 speed Automatic. It's been many years since I race another car at a drags. So I headed out to Sears Point Race way park in California this year in August. The Camaro ran 12.50s at 111-112 mph. All Stock, engine, tires, car and me. Just much older, I had so much fun racing my car DragBoss'
@@vanlarson9213 cool deal. Pretty fast that is for sure. Just too old school for new muscle. I have long time before kids gone. I will be an old man when they graduate 😬
Nice jacket. Best content around. Andy and Dave Silver. Right on the money guys.I see Clevelands make extra big High Po Horseppwer.
Thanks, it one of those deals where I just came from outside, and said time to do this. Got to hot had to take it off,lol. Yes sir, power on the way.
Yes for sure those 2 guys, Andy and Dave rule.
Very informative video alot of stuff makes more sense to me about the oiling system I've always been a bow tie kinda guy but I'm hoping to do a 351c/408 on my foxbody mustang Thanks for the info I'll be tuning in for more on your channel.
Thanks Darin, appreciate the sub. I show what works for me, there are lots of ways to do things as a Cleveland is no different, but they do have their peculiarities. There is no replacement for displacement. 383ci will rip your teeth out with torque, glad your here Darin. Please share.
Excellent show keep up the good work
I had some assistance from Earl Wade, Dyno Don Nicholson's engine guy when I built a Cleveland for my new 1971 Mustang back in the day. Not too many people had started using These yet and not too many parts were available. Earl had us block the oil passages with set screws with specific diameter holes drilled in them. He also had us do the external oil line. The engine used the first and second set of pistons that Venolia made. Crane cam with Jomar girdle on roller rockers. It had a gear drive instead of timing chain. Marv Ripes at A1 did the transmission and torque converter. It was a fun car to drive on the street with essentially open exhaust.
Moroso came out with an oil restrictor kit a few years after we did ours, so it was a commonly known trick in the day. I was told the engine was originally designed for truck use co it Would pump a lot of oil to the top end which you may not want on a race engine.
Cool history my BMW aficionado, glad you experienced the power of the cleveland, especially by Earl Wade. Nice deal, have a set of those pistons in my parts depot thanks for watching my channel hope you subscribe and like 👍
@@DragBoss351Cleveland First set had problems with the dome clearance and pockets for valved didn't have clearance. They were remade and got it right on second set. It was tough trying to build en engine when it was early in aftermarket development. At least Edelbrock had a manifold, although it was dual plane. And Milodon had an oil pan.
@@velvetjones1856 Sounds like early on for sure. Glad you were able to get it worked out, must before the Torker, and Strip dominator. Early 80s? Just finished PV clearance video, going to post tonight. Stay tuned...BMWM2
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Very early 1972-1973 time. I bought a Chevy Vega GT as a daily driver while converting the Mustang.
We were never able to get the Mustang to hook up as well s it should have done. Used 10.5" slicks and the old slapper traction bars. Pretty crude these days but standard then. 4.44 rear gear.
@@velvetjones1856 got it. I bet with Calvert mono leaf and Cal Trac, be a different story. Great experience for sure. Thanks for getting back to me.
I really want to thank you for this video, I am in the process of rebuilding my 71 Mach1 engine backed with a C6 and stroking my 351C out to 408, just made arrangements to get it in for the hot tank but after listening to you I can see I need to fire up the Dotco first !!! This is my 3rd mach1,, I would be interested in knowing what tools and extensions and cutters you have in mind to do these operations !!! Thanks again for your efforts and may the Good Lord Bless you and yours !!!
Thanks you for the kind words. Glad I can help. I love the 71 Mustang. Yes take the time and deburr all the big areas, it will pay off for sure. Thanks for the blessings we all need them and thank God we can do what we do. Thanks for watching and contributing to my channel. Please like and subscribe my friend
I just watch a video where the guy made a pretty good case for the head design causing starvation issues. Apparently the drainback holes are designed to keep the valve springs flooded. Which causes problems when combined with high rpm and small sump volume.
Saw that, may contribute, not sure in design. I always use a 9 qt pan. Eliminate that from equation
Tim Back in the 90s I bought new filter adapter fittings that had large Allen head machined into the fitting so you could install and remove the fitting without tearing the thing up or searching for your double nuts . I have moved on to 385 series 20 years ago. Maybe some day back at it with 335 series. At one time the 351 -C could make more horsepower than any other engine on Gasoline I believe that was a statement by Hot Rod magazine.
Yes the new Tim Meyer has that configuration. They can make power just have to spin them a little. Love the 385series engines for sure.
When I was a kid in the seventies I always wondered why my dad would claim with pride that his 77 F150 Ranger had a Ford 351 Cleveland! He didn’t mod it at all and that motor ran strong til the early 90’s
He must have put a cleveland in it or someone did. They never had cleveland in trucks or than ranchero. Glad you remembered the good old days.
Love the Cleveland info!!!! Refreshing my 4 bolt block & heads also buildimg a 357/30 over with SRAP Pistons Eagle rods & comp cams valvetrain for sn 95 body Gt
Good luck man. Take your time and make sure oil passages are cleaned up.
I am so interested in your channel! My first car was a 1970 ford Torino Gt with a 351 4v stock 300 hp. At the age of 16 that car was fast ! The first time I rebuilt the engine my father said I should go back stock with a RV cam ! I am pretty much sure you know who won that battle! From there the engine went into a 1965 mustang Lol That was short lived ! The mustang belonged to a friend and the engine was mine ! Then I rebuilt the engine again only changing the crank bearings and the pistons! If I remember correctly, they were TRW 11- to 1 compression aluminum pistons ! I had a friend called Holley Walley build a 2 barrel adapter plate for the engine because it was going into a 68 Ford Galaxie 4 door for a Stock car on a 1/4 ovel mud track at Tripple M speed way! And it was 2 Barrel only ! The car was a beast ! Steering was at least 6 turns lock to lock ! But the engine was fast and it didn't care about the weight ! All I had to do was drive it witch was not easy Lol! That engine in pretty much stock form and that heavy ass car won the the points race for I believe 4 years ! After that the engine went into a 71 Mercury cougar ! But before it did it had some work done to it! It went to North State auto in Chico CA ! There it was balanced and blue printed , heads were ported to match stock 4v intake manifold, and a TQ 30 Sig Erson cam! I don't know for sure but I think it was degreed. I added Roads lifters and the rest was stock! The intake, The carburetor, and the exhaust ! This 3550 lbs car was the fastest car in town ! Anyway sorry about the book ! It just took me back to the days ! Hope to see more of your channel.!
530, thanks for watching and hopefully subscribing. Man that was a history, but that Cleveland sir got around. And battled well. Look through all my old videos and see why you can find over 230 videos I bet you find things to keep you going for hrs. Stay tuned.
The car that it beat was a chevy vega with a built 350 chevy ! I do not know if it was stroked but I do know it had a dual tunnel ram and headers ! He said he had a lot of money invested in his car ! When I opened the hood on my Cougar he was in shock to see the stock intake and carb and exaust !And if anyone is thinking it was a one race wounder, Well think again! We raced 4 times ! Oh I have to say these were 15 mph roll starts and I won every time! But never the less that car was probably half the weight of my car with a hole lot less mods! I traded that car in for a family car and to date that makes sick to my stomach just thinking about! Lol someone ended up with a good package ! Any way thank you for your channel it has brought back a lot of memories !
@@530swag wow. Well now it’s time to bring it back again, build another one.
I run the line from the 585 plug to the sending unit plug or the plug on the back of the block it’s the same thing. It definitely improves the oiling!
Never used it in 40’years of racing. Tried it and no issues that I know of. Thanks Robert.
Hi. Jim
I think your channel is great for 351 pro stock years. I have a pinto blown lenco,
I also have one of the Gurney Weslake aluminum cleveland that Bob Glidden used and I got it from animal Jim Fuerier during nitrous pro stock wars.
So cool Dennis. My dream is to have a 351 Cleveland pro stock fairmont. Now the gurney head is a 289 or 302 head I believe. What do you mean you glidden used it? Animal Jim is the man
An AFL-1 oil filter is NOT a by-pass filter system.
It's a full-flow filter, with a built in pressure relief by-pass VALVE incorporated internally into the base of it, that allows it to to by-pass the filter media when the oil is cold and more viscous, or when the filter media becomes restricted with contaminants.
A by-pass oiling system is something completely different, in where a seperate circuit runs in parallel, constantly flowing oil back to the sump.
Sounds like you got it all figured out. Thanks.
Donate that TRE intake to me! lol Great vid, Tim - keep 'em coming.
I want to get it cleaned first, What would you do with it?
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I'm considering a Clevor build - Dart 9.5 w/CHI 3Vs or Yates D3s.
@@godzspeed I would be willing to give you the same deal I got if you really wanted it. Thanks for watching and liking
Me too! Glad to be here! 351 " Clevelands" rule, and are my favorite subject matter. That's that!
There I am " subscribed"
That's what i'm talking about Wesley, thanks for ringing that bell, They do rule, and we will bring much more to the table, get sharping the knives...
The 400m, is obviously a " 385" series block too! Can I assume that this information applies to the 400m, just as it does to the 351?
@@wesleysept6536 yes applies to all engines in regards to deburr and clean up. The 400 is considered to be in 335 series, but it does have the 385 series bell housing
@@DragBoss351Cleveland thanks for getting back to me, I'm " carless" at the moment. I am an engine builder though, the engines that I built before were all 302s. I'm " never " building a small engine again! I am looking for a 400m, and I plan to destroke it to get it to rev easily. Thanks again my main man, you truly are the Drag Boss. Wes Sept
Tim that was an awesome video. the oiling system and the mods have always been a bit of a mystery, which I now understand. You are right about Jason M. I have been following his 393 build with interest as i put mine together. great stuff
Thanks Neil. I never really understood it either that well, but by breaking it down to the basics we all can learn how it works and what to do to make it better. Jason is the man for sure. Please subscribe and share my channel. Need help building it and be grateful. More to come Neil.
Great Video! Plugs and Restrictors are great. Bushings in the lifter valley (MAJOR PRESSURE LEAK) are great. All these contribute to a better oiling system. Tim' s cam bearings are great. Has anyone played with the idea of altering the block to accepting 460 engine roller bearings and have a trickle oil hole EDM'd into the roller bearing shell (they need minor oiling in my opinion). Yes this means a custom billet camshaft.
There used to be a kit on the web that you could buy that had a drilling jig, long length drill, and roll pin that forced pressurized oil onto the camshaft gear-distributor gear interface. It had the promise of preventing the chewing up of the distributor gear. Has anyone out there seen this?
Thanks for watching and commenting. It’s is a systems of leaks and control is the key. No idea on the roller cam bearings. To tell you the truth never had any distributor gears have oil issues, main things I see are wrong clear between gear and cam gear. Needs to have some room for movement. Thanks Bryan make sure you subscribe and like 👍
If the lifter bores are in good shape, lifter bushings are not needed. Contrary to popular belief, oil does not leak between the lifter bores and lifter unless the bore is damaged from galling or rust pitting.
The oil pressure loss occurs with the lifter itself allowing too much oil into the pushrods. Custom oil restrictor pushrods with .020 oil hole, along with the restrictors in the usual places solves the oil pressure problems.
Stay away from lifter bushings unless you like playing with fire. If the clearance between the lifter and bushing isn't perfect, the lifters with stick causing cam failure with flat tappet cams especially. Been there done that. I will NEVER sleeve the lifter bores on a block again. No need for it. I ruined two cams, two sets of lifters, and had to get another block. Bought a set of oil restrictor pushrods and problem solved. My Cleveland has 45-50 psi at 2000 rpm with 10w30 oil at full operation temperature.
Tim, I am not sure if you know Lenn Bertran or not. But he runs or used to run a Cleveland in a Maverick and would leave the line at about 9Grand!!! I think the quote was you could hear the Cleveland "Shreaking at 9600 as he left"! LOL He also run a AOD behind it! He has Lentec transmissions, their web site is still up. If you go in the web site and look at customer photos, there is still a photo of the Maverick coming out of the hole on the rear bumper!
I still have my Cleveland 4 bolt main, it came from my Grand Sport Cobra Jet Torino. I have ran open chamber and closed chamber heads in a couple of configurations. The body is rusted out now, but I am keeping the power train back, may build it again. I have a NOS tunnel ram.
Didn't Hank the Crank run a bulkhead fitting through the block or intake, and under the intake and drill into 3th main gallery and plumb in there? I know they did on the 385 series. Not trying to confuse anyone, but I seem to remember a old Hot Rod article showing that, also had the other hose going to the rear pressure port on top that you were mentioning.
Great video, thanks for sharing.
So cool to hear that story, and with an aod. Wow. Keep that cleveland and get it all back into something. Be nice to see the TR sticking out of the hood. The Hank the crank system did tap into the oil galleys. I actually have one so I will make a video on it when I can. Thanks Earl
Thanks mate info was good. a mate of mine had the cam restrictors morosso i think and ran a mellings hv oil pump
Robbie, that is all I ran for years, and 9 qt pan. Glad you stopped by. Need help building the channel, let your mates know about the DragBoss garage. Be cool and fast.
Not exactly sure if I want to subscribe yet. Ford considered the Cleveland and the modified to be in the small block category. Although they're labeled as series 335 etc. Deck height four spacing stroke and bore is general small block sizing. Even though Ford considered the Fe series a big block. It's still had small cubic inch just like the gm366 etc. This may be confusing for GM and other make guys but Ford motor company considered them a small block. Just like the 302 boss just because it's big heads doesn't mean it isn't a small block. During the trans am series they run this engine against other small blocks and it had to be classified as a small block with limited cubic inch. I think you have some very good ideas and a lot of topics you have are very interesting. However I would like to continue seeing your research it doesn't mean that I will always agree with you so I may subscribe in the near future. Thanks for all your hard work and your dedication.
Thanks Brent for the kind words. And no we do not have to agree on everything. That is what makes for discussion. Not sure why you would not subscribe, you just have to ring the bell, not hard, and does really affect you for the most part, but no worries, I just want to keep moving forward and need help building my channel. Stay tuned for more.....
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I guess it wouldn't hurt to subscribe. There's a lot of half truth this day and time. Subscribed
@@DragBoss351Cleveland thanks for your response. There's a lot of these people don't really care about your opinion or the truth. So you have my support keep them coming buddy
@@brentgrimes5353 good man, not let’s get to making some fire breathing Cleveland’s. Sit back and enjoy. Take what you can use for your combo. Thanks Brent.
@@brentgrimes5353 exactly. I may not agree or you, no big deal. We don’t get hung up on semantics. Use what we can and don’t follow it, if you disagree. It’s your opinion, I’m good with that. 👍
Cool vid here in Australia its a given to clean up oiling system on the 8s even more so on the 6 cylinder Ford engine's.wacthing ya show takes me back to the 80s believe me there was some tuff 351 prowling the streets mainly Clev'o.peace
Peace Wayne. I appreciate you taking the time to comment. I will keep them rolling. Maybe you can help me, I need more mates subscribing, maybe you can hook me up. Yes it’s the little things that can make a big difference. Stay tuned
I built a Cleveland with solid roller cam and used the Moroso main restrictor kit, and a HVLP oil pump. It would hold oil pressure at an idle, but by 1500 RPM, it pumped all the oil out of the pan and I lost oil pressure. That is a HUGE leak. I mostly, but not completely solved the problem with a really dumb low tech trick my dad told me about from the old days, pipe cleaners in the pushrods. At the time, I thought I was pumping all the oil up into the rocker arm/head area and it was not draining back fast enough, which may be partially true. But now, watching this info, I think I was also losing oil right out the bottom of the lifter as well. I was not aware at that time, that the lifter gallery was getting oiled first. Regardless, I was never able to fully fix the problem and moved on to other engines.
I have heard that before, the Cleveland is a system of leaks, its controlling them that is the hard part. I have used a HV oil pump for the last 40 years, and never an issue for me, luckily. I have always used a 9 qt pan, that might be the secret, thanks for watching. Lots more in store...
Please do a good video about 351m/400. All the problems and what fits. I am having a 10:1 351m built with Autotec flat top zero deck pistons. Heads 2v open chamber have been worked over. Also a 4 barrel intake. I want to turbo it blow through setup eventually. Love your videos
Thanks Frank your combo sounds nice and will haul. Have to put out the list. Appreciate you being here
Great channel im actually building a cleveland and I was concerned about the oiling system. You said it would be a pain to polish the oil galleries. I came up with a idea how about extrude hone. Company in Huntley Illinois does this. Im going to find out if they can do it.
I had thought about that, but truth is, will it make that much of a difference. To me the big obvious areas that are easiest to get to matter most, all areas where .585 is, Tim Meyer oil filter adapter, and auxiliary line. But by all means see what they say, thinking outside the box, keeps you one step ahead. Thanks Jason for watching. Don’t forget to subscribe and like my friend.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland I just got a old set of A3 heads and intake that Roush had worked on the only thing is they milled the exhaust side down like the steel heads. Came with all the aluminum plates to finish its just a matter of finding someone to finish the heads and intake.
@@jasonmadding8692 Not sure why they would do that, other than to raise the ports even higher. The later heads like the C3/C302b had higher exhaust and intake ports. That is the key someone to finish them. I would suspect your around the $2k range to get them finished. A high quality port job, starts at $2500. Justin Heck may be able to help you, I talked with him a couple of weeks back.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland If you talk to him let me know. I would greatly appreciate it
@@jasonmadding8692 ok I will.
Great vid Tim.
Thanks Kyle, I know that hank the crank unit would be darn cool to install and test. I will bring it out for follow up video, so much to cover, and so little time. Apparently you watching and like I say stay tuned
Jason is the man alright.
No doubt, no doubt. Good guy willing to help others at any time. Watch out for his dog, Bruce, he don’t play that. Tell him I look up to him literally and from knowledge base on engines. Please subscribe and stay tuned
400 and 351M had basically the same oiling system. Pickups with the 400 and 100,000 miles would lose oil pressure at idle. Farm boys would come in asking me to replace the oil pump, because the oil light was flashing at hot idle in gear. I would pull the oil pump out and inspect it for scoring and clearances. Always very good condition. Pull a main and rod cap or two and they would be copper all around. I would then look at the timing chain which with that meage was worn. I would call with an estimate. To compensate for journal wear, I would put 0.001" undersize main and rod bearings in. Then while the pan was still off I would install a double roller timing set. The first few farm boys would be upset I had not replaced the oil pump. My response was to drive it for a week and if they were not happy, if they paid for a new pump I would install it for free. I had noone come back for a pump. Now cam bearings were probably getting worn also, but the only way to service them is to remove the engine and complete tear down. Once the crank clearances were tightened up, oil pressure to the cam bearings would be up also. This would give them about another 100,000 miles use.
Oil systems are great up to 6800rpm, Most no where near that. Sounds like you had a plan, I remember that flickering light.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland These were farmer pickups that mostly putted around below 4,000 RPM. It was poor main oiling and high milage. The poor oiling became an increasing problem as the miles piled up.
Many newer vehicles show main and rod bearing wear as the mileage builts due to the low RPM with OD transmissions that go into OD and lockup at 45 to 50 MPH. 1700 RPM and the der ones oil flow was not the greatest out of the pump at that low RPM. GM had to revise the 700R4 pump for that reason.
Ok. Def ran low rpm. I remember when the governors would apple core on the 700r4 trans
Dr Tim is in da house, at Cleveland University !!
That is a new one Cleveland University, perfect. It is less than an hour away, when roads are not full of snow. Every day is a school day that is for sure. Thanks for watching, and Rx is to stay tuned...more to come..
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Every one at this site gets educated...one way or another !!
@@arkhsm I hope so, you can never have too much info, you just glean what you want and pass over what you don’t. As you explore, you find what works Stay tuned my friend
Great video, Draggboss!
Thanks CW, keep the lights on cause DragBoss is in the house. thanks for watching and enjoying it. Hope you get something useful out of it. Make sure you ring the bell, and hit the like please... stay tuned.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland the bell has been rang and the like button has been pushed, months ago!😁 Staying tuned! Thank you, for spreading your knowledge!
@@strokermaverick excellent my friend. We will keep moving forward and learning together. Thanks for the support and helping me build my channel.
Set oil pump to 100 psi. Use external pressure relief valve at oil pressure guage port. Relieve oil pressure there and vent into lifter valley area or into oil pan.
Hey Tim, any precautions with the lack of the non bypass 51268 filter for normal street use, some colder starts etc ?
Not that I know of. Have heard no ill issues with it.
Ok right on, i'll get that installed one of these days
Im rebuilding my Y Block. Drilled out a small squirt hole into the front journal for timing gear, plugged up the over flow rocker shafts . . . antways a bit far from a performanse clevland but in regards to oiling i too wonderd about those 90° bends in the oil ways.
I remember using a diamond rope saw for cutting holes in tile, and wonderd if a lengthy lead teather attach to a diamond rope and follower teather was fished into the journals around the corners would that be effective enough to accomplish the rounding off, obviously in a shoe shine reciprocation around corners?
Every engine benefits from smoothing out as many sharp bends and turns. Will work on a block next, what I grind, your 312 with two carbs and go go go.
Ford side oiler blocks vented oil pressure at rear of block after all mains where oiled. The oil system was pressurized and then relieved at the last opening.
Thanks for the great info. I am building a 410 Cleveland here is Australia. I have a set of Tim's bearings. The install for the no1 bearings states to install oil holes at 1.30 and 4.00. I assume this is with the block the right way up? What is the point of the two holes? The oil doesn't go any where else from this cam bearing. If you a have some, an explanation vid would be great.
Cheers
Yep sounds good Roland. Watch the vid about the bearings and you will see how they restrict flow, glad you are into the channel thanks for taking the time to watch and contribute.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thanks Tim, will do. My engine is factory block based, 410ci - 4.040x4.00, AFD heads, Lunati Voodoo Hyd. roller, Holley Stealth injection. Sim software predicts about 534HP and same TQ. Wondering whether lifter bushings is a good idea along with TM's bearings.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland What is the vid tittle you are referring to?
@@rolandgann6584 they would be good, but do you need both, probably be fine with restrictor cam bearings only.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thanks Tim. Have you ever used the Wydendorf Machine kits for lifter bushing? Much more cost effective than my machine shops price, but I am concerned about accuracy. Engine won't be a revver. Peak HP at 6100 and TQ at 4200.
Good information. Hey, you can start "Uncle Tim's Garage" now. :). Just about every second Ford down here in Oz has a Cleveland. Going to put a "385" in our '69 Cougar project, hopefully. Love a Kasse Boss head conversion. Yeah I know, a Cleveland would be easier and cheaper, especially down here. But the sound of a BB Ford is just too sweet.
Thanks Zagar, do what works for you. My dream engine would be a Boss 429, but until I get these Cleveland builds done, only a dream. Kaase was going to help me, with TrackBoss, but told me he was too busy. Uncle Tim’s garage, kids love it. Thanks for watching and contributing to the channel. Keep us posted on the build, more to come.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Hi, thanks for the reply. Yeah its probably more a dream than reality. A Boss would be big bucks. Maybe just build a regular 460, or even a stroker Clevor for kicks.
@@kramrollin69 I know what you mean, Be a lot cheaper to build a 460 stroker, and really tear up the track..
Now this will also apply to the 400/ 351m since it's basically a tall deck cleveland? I got a couple 400s that have the stock reinforced main webbing in the block. I got a pair of 2v closed chamber aussie heads getting freshened up. I hear horror stories about the rear main bearing failing because of lack of oiling. So I've been investigating fixes for this problem and just watched your video. Could I also use an auxiliary oil line back to the sending unit port?
The same principles apply to the 400, and the 351M. And really any engine where you can clean up any of the galleys, the returns, any smoothing and massaging of oil path, will improve it. I’ve only use the front to rear line once, on my last build but it will work on your 400 too. Thanks for watching it stay tune
Have you built any road race engines? What is your experience on a 408 stroker Cleveland and what is the HP limitations of the stock block before they come apart?
No road race engines. Been running 408,now 409 since 2013. Initially was at 752, now 769hp with 4150 and 775 with 1050. Pushing the limits. You need my new DBG351C, that can hold probably about 2k hp.
@ in your opinion would a 408 in the 625 to 675 power range hold together well in a factory 351c block? I understand that it is just your opinion…would you use factory heads to do so? Where would a person find the specs and cost of your new block?
@carlclark989 I had a 385, 0.040, filled block made 668hp, Cougar was 3275lbs, ran beat of 9.99, and went through traps at 7900, for 5?years never a lick of problem. Then block cracked and valve spring broke, ram on 7 cylinders went 10.16 piping and bangin. My new block is at Warren Johnson’s. He is checking it out.He gave me a ball park of less than 2k to get it ready to roll. Has 4.185 capability and priority oiling. Working on reasonable cost.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland is this new block aluminum? Are you saying that the Warren Johnson block cost 2k, I am a bit confused sorry? If that is what you’re saying and the block is aluminum I would definitely be ready to jump on board with a purchase.
I’m sorry I reread your comment and understand now. Engine is with Warren Johnson being repaired 2k. What is the cost of your new DragBoss all aluminum block?
I wonder what Titus did to their Cleveland blocks oiling system compared to the original design.
Same as TrackBoss, since he copied it.
Why not plug passages from crank to left side and install jumper lines from right lifter galley to left in a couple places between lifters with 1/4” hard lines. Pro stock small mopars used that back in the day eliminating external lines. Just a thought.
There are lots of options, I guess that could work. I try to not complicate it too much. Some guys have gone and re routed oil internally, more direct oiling. I think hank the crank set up may have done that. I need to ck that out. Thanks for watching and contributing Steve. Be safe and be fast.
Been watching your channel for some time and must say it’s awesome some of the guys sponsoring your channel are heavy hitters for sure. I honk you have the cylinder head department covered. Got a great inventory of some nice pieces.
@@steveelenbaas5999 I used to have 10 different sets of heads, from iron 4v, to high ports, to multiple sets of Aluminum heads. buy, and sell. Thanks Steve.
@@steveelenbaas5999 ps Steve, I have a lot of help from sponsors of you need anything call and say I sent you they will hook you up.
Hey DragBoss , well done - great video! Just got a 1968 Cougar with 351C. Don't think I'll be doing the oil bypass mod anytime soon. What oil weight should I use for street/drag for the time being? Finding a lot of conflicting info out there on this I live in Malta EU - very humid all year round which temp-wise means 40degree winters and 102 degree summers. Thanks :D !
Thanks Pierre, Glad your here and please subscribe. For oil, it is not only the environment that makes a difference, but also bearing clearances. In your case, I would run a 20w50, or a synthetic blend of the same weight. old school clearances, say 3 or 35, benefit from thicker oil, less clearance say 27.5 ish maybe a thinner synthetic. Thanks for watching, explore the channel, and see what you find, make sure you share with your friends in Malta!!
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thanks a lot. Needed a specialist opinion and I got it. Looking forward to more content! Thanks again! :)
@@pierrelucpace3443 please be patient, have so much going on, with work and family. But pressing forward, have some cool vids coming up, glad your here Pierre
Hi mate im running an arrow block in my race car. Have a look at the arrow blocks and tell me what you think? Cheers
I heard they need a lot of machine work.
Great video on the oiling system thanks
thanks Michael, oiling is something people really do have a great grasp of, hopefully this cleared up any confusion. Glad your here, please like and superscribe, more to come.
Even though the 351 w and 351 c are from different families they're both considered to be small blocks. Some people want to the Cleveland a big block since it came from the 385 series engine family. Always a big argument.
No argument, just good dialogue that gets people thinking. Good to have you here, to me 351cleveland, keep rocking and let’s see we go. Glad your here. Be safe, be fast, and hang on.
That argument always dates a person.
That argument always dates a person.
Tim, I purchased a 1972, 4 bolt main block and a set of DOAE 4 barrel heads. The block has been bored. 030" over and line bored on the main bearings. The man I made the purchase from has a set . 030" over, domed TRW forged domed Pistons with rings, all weight matched. Also a set of connecting rods balanced, shot peened and the ends tried. I only purchased the block and heads. I want to use this engine as a cruiser in a 62 Fairlane.
What piston should a person use in this application?
If your just street. Really want a trw 2379 a flat top piston. About 10.5 ish cr. Or really any flat top thanks ed
Thank you for the videos.
thanks David, I appreciate it, Others get a lot of info from the comments.
Whoop whoop cant wait for more
And hear the dyno roar. Yeah so much more to come. Wish I had more time, but with work and family, get what I can out there for you. Thanks for watching and commenting. Appreciate the interaction.
Realy like all the content. Difficult to see people in the state's do something with these motors, font stop the awesome work
@@ford351cleveland stay right here and see more than you will believe, appreciate the enthusiasm and dedication. So much more to come
Many years ago on my old hot rod which I spun it up to 8k . It was just a street motor really but I used a 2 quart filter I think. I blocked the by pass and always made sure I let the motor warm up , Seems like I read back then that the filter would flow more than two ph8a on a remote block . That was a very long time ago . No one makes a block with priority main bearing oiling . As long as you have no problems with bearing I guess its all good . Although I never had one I always though a dry sump has a lot of advantages
Hey Jim, sounds like you had a good combo for sure. I would love to try a external wet or dry sump system, just a lot of money up front. I always warm up to 160-70, shut it down, and let it cool down a bit, get some heat in before I whale on it. Dart for sure makes a priority oiling 351w block, not sure about other engines, but may feed mains first. Thanks Jim for watching, make sure you ring the bell, and rock on...
great content Tim
Figured you would like that Neil. Sure beats TV. So much more than come....
Did you ever get T&D to do a deal on the roller rockers? I have them on my FE and I am about to do my first cleveland and sure would like to run them on there. Trying to decide if I should get a stroker kit or not. The engine i have is apart but block is D2AE-CA bored 40 over (bores are still in good shape), Crank is 4ma, rods are D0AE-A, pistons are L2379, cam is (from what I can make out) CWC 1208 and the end is stamped 530 or 580, and the heads are closed chamber 4V D0AE. What kind of power would this make? I don't plan on using cam because I am looking at going to a full roller setup
I did, but had to buy 4 sets, over 11k. I would get a stroker kit, and be done with it. Those pistons may get to 10-10.5:1. Stock cranks have some oiling issues, or distributing oil. Can make an easy 600hp. Thanks Cody
@@DragBoss351Cleveland is there a stroker kit you would recommend and with what cam? 600hp is what I would like to hit. I appreciate you answering I did not expect to get a reply so quickly.
@@codybyrom1564 contact Tim Meyer at TrackBoss Performance products. Watch my video of my 354 ci making 615hp, with stock heads.
DragBoss Garage Awsosme channel! i just subscribed! Im doing a 70 Cleveland. Cost not an issue but would you go with the Tmeyer bearings or the moroso kit?
I used both. And just tried his oil filter adapter. Glad your here.
@@DragBoss351Cleveland Thank you! Really appreciate the guidance.
@@AAhshitsun your. Most welcome. Appreciate you being here also. Get the stroker kit from Tim Meyer comes internally balanced.