Its just dumb-logic, no data to decipher. [Editing as an updated document was found, and I had swapped some pins] S1 & S2 are from the card and listed as optional [pins are either low (ground) or high (3.3v) ] S1 is Power Stable; enables the GPU to send an somethings wrong signal, so the PSU can cut power to the card. S2 is Cable Present; lets the PSU know the GPU exists so it can adjust the power limit based on the number of cards. S3 & S4 are from the PSU and define the power limit by leaving the pin open or grounding it. (GG=600, OG=450, GO=300, OO=150)
I agree with a lot of the comments here. Let's standardize the modular output of the PSU. Long term waste will be reduced and PSU companies could sell just the PSU and you can use the existing cables. The 20+4 or 24 pin header should be a straight cable, matching the motherboard pin for pin in terms of layout. The 24 pin header on the motherboard should be in the middle, not top or bottom of the board.
One of the reasons why they haven't changed standards is because it's really expensive for both manufacturers and customers to switch to a new standard. That's why I can buy a new power supply off-the-shelf, and with a couple of molex adapters make it work in my old Pentium 1.
@@TheEDFLegacy Well, you people running your old Pentium I computers are the ones who need to jump through hoops to use a new power supply, not the rest , who represent 98% Sorry, you cannot expect tech to be backwards compatible forever.
They need to make all PSU's have the same ports on the rear, so mistakes like using the wrong cable from a different brand doesn't make things go Booom, which will also help with fewer cables going to land fills etc.
Yeah, and not just cables going to landfill, killed a mobo doing this just last year and had to buy a refurb board out of China to get something compatible with the old CPU - many people might have just scrapped the whole system at that point.
I ran into this issue with my 1500W Titanium from ThermalTake. They called the 12V power for the board something different than what Zenith II called it so that was SUPER confusing. Apparently Thermaltake was using a SERVER -based terminology and I couldn't search for it online since no matter what combination of words I'd type NOTHING of relevance would show up. Since search engines now are complete shit.
Are you talking about modular supplies? Are you saying that different PSUs can share the same connectors on the rear but have different pinouts on those connectors? Or do you mean something else?
I had to upgrade from my old non-modular psu becausr it didnt have 2 8 pins but this isn't a bad idea. I always love standardization and accessibility.
Real World, we know the actual result, adapters are used, as happened with Founder Edition 3000 series cards, and AIBs ignored the Spec, and added another 8-pin connector. My EVGA 3080Ti FTW£ has three 8-pins, not Nvidia's 12-pin, so rarely do specs created to meet an individual Companies needs, go on to get taken up by the industry at large. My 2013 Corsair 1200, bought to cope with a future upgrade to 4 GPUs (Dropped that idea when multi- GPU support decreased over time) is still way overkill even for 4000 Series. Also a great power supply as well, Corsair made them better then, than now, as the hurricane vid showed. Not going to stop using it until it finally dies on me.
@@roopey it is rated for that but it isnt rated for the spikes that those graphic card have. i mean you have what 3 8 pins connectors (right now with a 3080 for example that draws 320w since you can oc them and such it can go perfectly over 400w and it has spikes of 700w) the problem there with 450w cards like the 4090 is supossed to be you have to account for atleast 500/550w in oc. that graphic card would need 4 8pins connectors. that isnt good for the card since cables are heavy, it isnt space efficient(they would need to make the cards even longer or change the placement of the connectors) and and the most important thing: it ain't pretty none of the options are. nor having a fucking squid that goes from 12+4 to 4 6+2 nor having a card with 4 cables that is longer than the atx connector
Supporting 200% overload for 10% of the time in 10us bursts shouldn't be too hard: at 2000W burst, that is 20mJ of storage and you only need 1400uF worth of low-ESZ capacitors to smooth it out. Since most PSUs already have 5000+uF on the 12V rail, the changes would be more about reducing ESZ to accommodate twice as much ripple current by using twice as many half-valued capacitors in parallel and tuning OCP/OPP protections. The ATX 3.0 spec will mostly affect low-end PSUs since it will force them to have much higher quality output filter capacitor banks than what they can currently get away with. Not as much of an issue for higher-end PSUs that are already doing this to ensure low ripples and long capacitor life for that 7-10 years warranty.
Wow, great answer. I was thinking about that part and how hard it seemed on the "1000+W" premium PSU's, but it makes sense that they would already be able to produce microseconds of high power due to the more expensive parts.
Why aren't they already adding caps to the graphics cards for that though? They should already know that their GPU does that and yet they don't address that by adding a cap or two to the the PCB? 16v 4700uF filter caps are pretty small and are lower profile than a GPU heatsink and costs around a buck. And that's for a high quality panasonic or rubycon a merely "good" quality cap costs way less than that. Though the cap tier list goes like Rubycon ->Panasonic -------------------------------------------->everyone else.
@@atomicskull6405 You may have one too many digits in there, 16V 4700uF caps are pretty bulky, 330-560uF is what you can get in a format that can be squeezed under the HSF and GPUs already have quite a few of those already. The amount of bypass capacitors on there is only meant to compensate for PSU wiring impedance and feed the VRM. Even if you put a few more capacitors on the GPU, those still get chonked during power spikes which drops their voltage. Between the increased GPU capacitor bank size and its lower impedance, the PSU still ends up seeing a good chunk of those spikes after wiring impedance delay and attenuation, and still needs to be able to cope with them. Also, capacitors in a PSU have a lot more available space and cool airflow available than those stuffed under a GPU's HSF, which makes the PSU a much more appropriate location for bulk filtering.
i actually say "thank you" to my psu with its fancy protection systmes everytime there is a tiny surge or spike of the electricity. the modem restarts, the monitor restarts, even the tv switches off, but my desktop goes strong without any issues. btw its a 10yo coolermaster 600W semi-modular
Power supplies for this new spec have already been announced from multiple manufacturers. Word is the 3090 Ti will be using the new connector too (same as the 30 series FE connector plus the 4 extra pins.)
Asus announced that their 1000w and 1200w PSUs with the new PCIe 5.0 connector would release Q1 this year. Nearly Q2 and so far only their 1000w has released. Seems like the 1200w PCIe 5.0 model has been delayed. A GPU that requires the PCIe 5.0 should be using minimum 1200w PSUs. And the one that is most usefull us being withheld.
@@coolmemesbudd The new 12VHPWR connector doesn't always have to output 600W. The four data/sense pins on the connector tells the GPU that the PSU is capable of either 150/300/450/600W over the PCIe cable. So even SFX power supplies can use the new cable since the biggest advantage of it is that you only need one cable to the GPU, rather than two or three 6/8-pin cables.
Incidentally, I do run a Seasonic Focus GX-750 in my system. My previous PSU didn't have an NTC thermistor for inrush current limitation and would trip my game room's circuit breaker every so often when I fired up the rig. With the GX-750 that problem is gone, and for that reason alone I tell it how much I love it every day. It does work hard and it deserves time off, but I've got my needs, so it will have to work until it dies. I'm a monster, I know.
i have a focus gx also bought it around 2020 now am looking to upgrade to a 4080 super and still confused as to do i need a new psu or the non atx 3.0 focus gx is enough?
I've got the 750W G2, and it's still going. Best power supply I've ever bought. I think Super Flower is to thank for that, as EVGA might've switched to something different for their newer units.
Cybenetics is certainly a step up from the god-awful 80+ system, but in-depth reviews will still be important to test things like protections and electrical characteristics. The latter is covered in the cybenetics test reports, though they are not factored into the final rating.
@@Sekir80 Hardware Busters International (for english ppl) channel is owned by the creator of Cybernetics, so except a lot of PSU tests (already are a lot).
@@kitsunesenpai441 Techpowerup and Tomshardware articles (both from creator of Hardware Busters International and Cybenetics), are the current gold standard.
Hey there pc p&c silencer 610. We’ve had some times haven’t we? 2006 - 2022 and counting. From when we first met, you got put into the bare bones special case after the stock PSU let its smoke out into the world. First worked together powering that Prescott cpu and some nameless ATI agp slotted GPU. Things sure changed after that. Stepped up to DDR2 memory, a Conroe E6600, and that beast of a GTS 8600. Even got us airflow minded new case with some massive 80mm fans. Serious business now. Things got real crazy when that gtx460 found it’s way into the case, followed by that eBay special Wolfdale 8600. Oh the upgrade possibilities of that socket 775. Then we stepped bravely into the future together. That i7 7700k and the jump right past ddr3 into the bleeding edge ddr4 hotness. One good upgrade deserves another and now you are powering the gtx2070, with all its ups and downs. Outlasting a set of case fans that got too loud for their own good? No sweat. We laugh together at the thought of new connectors while dangling chains of unused molex connections still dreaming of their ide hard drives.
The last time I thanked my psu for its service was last week when I opened it and cleaned the dust out of it for our 10 year anniversary. It was disgusting, I wonder what the percentage is of people who actually do that. What would be the percentage of preventable deaths related to dust related conductivity or heat? I expect to get 30 years at least out of it, and it runs 4x 390x cards 24\7, and has done for 5 years now. The hardest worn part of the entire thing is the power switch on the back, if anything at all dies, my money is on that.
Lmao I have a 1000w 7 year old PSU and made a comment on a GN video about how I'm glad I bought a larger PSU in the past because new cards like the 3090ti are pulling 500w+ and quite a few dummies tried to tell me my old PSU is on its last legs! And that if I tried to run a 500w card it would fail! It's like ya right... there is no need to constantly upgrade a PSU... hell they even still make and sell my PSU model. My psu is 93% efficient at 50% load and 90% at 100%. No need to upgrade unless it dies. Oh... and I have a 10 year warranty so got 3 more years out of it!
Some people (and sadly, the huge majority of people you find in places like here) have absolutely nothing else in their life, no other hobbies or interests at all to spend their money on, so they buy stupid like a new CPU every single time one is shat out with a 6% increase over the previous gen, I think its hilarious!! I bought this 1000w psu back in 2012, and I paid a good price for it when you look at what PSU's cost these days. But really, the only downside to buying the big burtha, is that when its not under any real load (which is 99% of the time) it is very inefficient. When just sitting on the desktop, or using a browser, watching a video, typing a document, all that light stuff, you might be drawing like 50w maybe? It could be a lot less, depends what you have. But when you are drawing less than 20% of the psus rated output, efficiency goes to shit, when its under 5% load it can fall under 70٪ efficiency, mine for example as reviewed by TPU, with an output between 40w - 60w is only 68% efficient! For a machine that is on 24/7, that is quite the waste. If I had of chosen a 500w instead of a 1000w PSU, then 50w would have been a 10% load rather than 5% load it is for the 1000w model, and efficiency goes from 67% up to 80% from 5% to 10% load respectively on my unit. So the point there, is you can gain huge efficiency by getting a lower output PSU. I would never buy a psu just based off its efficiency rating because what matters is how you use it, and it will always have the highest efficiency at half its rated output.
Technically we've had some for a while now, like the Corsair AXi series, but it was more for monitoring the power supply via software rather than a two-way communication AFAIK. Haven't owned one, only a non-i model.
Well, because it's not necessary in this context. It makes sense when there are many variables, for example when using USB-PD. Hundreds of different cables and thousands of devices. A PSU in a PC on the other hand is quite predictable. There are specs for connectors, cables and how much power they can deliver. As long as the manufacturers follows them there is no need for any communication.
@@Diapolo10 The AXi's software can switch the 12V from 1 rail to 2 I had an RM850i and the communication is a criteria for buying a PSU as I had a bad experience with my first PSU and those issues are hard to investigate
Thanks. My sister and I had to grab a new psu for her new build I just recently built for her to be ready for future upgrades etc. I'm gonna do the same when I upgrade to 13th Gen later this year. :)
Electrical Engineer Student here. Currently dealing with power electronics for my senior project. A PSU outputting 2x its wattage for 10μs is nutty. I am used to dealing with some chonky parts for power spikes in the 10ns range, I can't imagine what it would be like designing a supply for 10μs 2x peaks. Id expect these new PSUs to go between 1.7x to 2x current pricing tbh
I miss my old Asus Strix 750 ti. No power connector, it ran off the power it got from the slot. Oh well, I will see what the upcoming AMD AM5 APUs are capable of. No discrete graphics card, and M.2 NVME drive, so the only cables I have to worry about are the fans and that glorious ARGB.
Honestly of they are good enough i might skip the graphics card altogether for a few more years. I'm already getting decent frames in new releases in 1080-1440 with the 4750g.
@Lightning Hydra My 3200G has about the same performance as my old 750 ti. Enabling XMP on 3200 DDR4 makes it faster than the factory OC of the 750 ti with the same 2GB of dedicated video RAM.
AMD will intentionally cripple these APUs as not to endanger PS5 market . They need to sell chips to Sony for few more years , so games on their APUs must not look better than console games.
The ATX standard dropped the ball back when the GPU power cables were added. They could have simplified it so much and instead made it all more complicated than it had to be. The logical thing would have been to make the ATX-12V and EPS power connector compatible with the GPU power connectors. But no, instead they swapped the power and ground 180 degrees and used a plug that was slightly differently keyed. For no good reason what so ever they felt they needed to create a new plug. But that's water under the bridge. Now they are creating a new standard again, supposedly for a good reason as now the GPU and PSU are supposed to be able to communicate about what the PSU is actually capable to deliver in the way of power. I'm not yet sold on it, but at least it should mean one less connector that is close enough you can actually force the wrong cable to lock in. Yes, I've seen people managed to cram a EPS connector into a graphics card and the other way around. Lets just say it's usually not a good thing...
Or simply include more pcie and cpu power connectors. Ita been 10 years and nothing changed. Low spec psu still have same connectors and high end psu more connectors. I do get that noone wants to plug a idk 3080 into a lets say vs corsair. But still this should have been standard by now to include more power connectors especially for gpu. Or example fan 4 pin on motherboard. Why do we still have a limit on low end boards..... why cant we have more than 4 fan header. My b450 toma max has 4 normal fan header 1 cpu and 1 pump...
Seriously, one to two extra connectors is too much now? I'm quite fond of them and the less power going through the motherboard the better. After all, CPU has their cable, HDD has their cable, why shouldn't the graphics card have their own cable?
@@JonatasAdoM It's not the number of connectors or cables that's the problem in my opinion, but the types. PCI-e power connectors should never have been invented. Instead they should just have used EPS-12V connectors for the graphics cards. One less type of connector to worry about, just put two more of them on the PSU and call it a day. Instead they came up with the PCI-e power connector, and made it in two versions, 6 and 8 pin. Now if you look at the 6 pin version there's actually not all six pins used for power delivery, instead it's three +12V and 2 ground pins. They could just as well used a 4-pin ATX Power connector and had the option to use two for 8-pins of power delivery just like a lot of ATX PSU's have done to support both ATX and EPS power. Now this new connector is interesting, but again it's a special one. The 12VO standard has been talked about for a long time now, and they keep threatening us with it replacing the old ATX power connector "real soon now". If that comes around there will be just two kinds of connector on the cables from the PSU, the 12VO (ten pins I think) and this new graphics card connector. Drives, fans, pumps and whatever else it supposed to be driven off the motherboard. To me it sounds limiting, but we'll see what happens. Heck I was miffed by the ATX standard back in the day. But it pushed the old IBM PC standard PSU out of the market pretty quickly. It did bring some nice things like being able to wake a computer over the network, set wake timers and standby functionality so it was more than just a new formfactor for PSU and the power connectors for the motherboard.
@@blahorgaslisk7763 Honestly, 12V0 and ATX 3.0 aren't any good. Mainboards are the most problematic monolith in a system. If any single part fails (networking, audio, storage controller, and so on) the whole board might become a paper weight (worst case). Mainboards simply became too complex and now they also want to force functions from the PSU into the mainboard. There is a reason why PCs and Servers are modular... The new connector in ATX 3.0 isn't a bad idea, but why add communication in? There are simpler ways to do this... Well, I get why they added it. Simply because , some idiot monkey will try to connect a 800 watt GPU to a 400 Watt crap PSU. But, then it's their problem for not reading the damn manual.
@@roopey I agree with most everything you wrote. I was building computers back when the only I/O that was actually on the MB was the keyboard port. Everything else came on expansion cards. There were even mouse port cards... Then these started to get integrated. The serial ports and a parallel port got integrated into one card. Floppy controller and HDD interface was another pretty logical combo, and once IDE became the default standard for PC's these combo cards were almost always used. Next step was to combine serial ports, parallel port, FDD and IDE controller on a single card. Now you only needed a graphics card and a combo I/O card in your PC and it was usable. Network cards were actually not all that common yet. Sound cards started to become affordable, but most people still didn't feel they were necessary. It wasn't really before the CD player got cheap that the sound cards started to really sell, and then it often was sold in a multimedia package with speakers and a CD player. This made the sound card manufacturers include a suitable controller for the CD player on the sound card. Most of these were using a IDE controller, but some went with a SCSI controller. And then Intel dropped the ATX standard. Suddenly serial ports, parallel ports, FDD and IDE controllers, PS/2 mouse port, sound and sometimes even a network port were integrated on the motherboard. Suddenly we had a single point of failure in the motherboard. Any of these ports stopped working and the motherboard was compromised. We've gone from a PC having a minimum of five expansion cards to a PC that doesn't need any expansion card to work, or a minimum of one, a graphics card, if the GPU in the processor doesn't cut it. Now I feel the 12VO standard is a bit interesting, but at the same time it will make the most compact computers less capable. Think about it. A Micro-ITX card is pretty cramped already. They often have pretty few USB ports, not to many SATA ports, one or possibly two NVMe ports, and of course a single PCI-e slot. If you make it 12VO then you need to add VRM for 3,3V and 5V and power connectors to support the number of SATA drives the MB can use. That's more PCB real estate that has to come from somewhere on an already cramped motherboard. What probably will happen is that these Micro-ITX motherboards will cut down on SATA ports or possibly entirely eliminate them. This is not something that a lot of users will care about as long as they get two NVMe ports, but it's still less functionality for questionable gain in power efficiency.
My pc used to shutdown when running benchmarks with my 3080 was using 2 separate 8 pin cables plus one of the pig tails that comes with the cable. Switched to 3 separate cables and it fixed the issue. RM850x PSU.
I have a 1000W Corsair RM Gold PSU, i bought it for long terme use and it's 10y warranty so no, manufacturer should give/sell adaptors or landfills will be quickly full
I like the data cables, it would enable a whole new set of fancy meters on the control panel. But I really hope they make it with good reusability and stability.
Probably not. OEM manufacturers don't have to play by the rules, because they make their own. Look at HP. I have one of their OEM machines, that have a very proprietary board along with it's proprietary PSU. It's 180w and it uses 2 4-pin connectors, presumably one for CPU and one for system. It also has another connector with small pins on it, probably for communication. When that connector is no longer, well, connected, the system will only briefly boot up, and abruptly shut down.
@@nika_0 Yes but at least for Dell Optiplex Systems that we buy at work, you can choose from 80+ Gold or Platinum on the built in PSU, so they are efficient too, even if proprietary. They also have EPEAT gold
Even the things that should already be standardized, like MB 24 pin connectors, fan headers, and motherboard form factors themselves, are not standard on a lot of OEM prebuilts. So no, probably not.
Thank god I found this video. Going to upgrade my PSU, almost bought one that's not ATX 3. Corsair's Shift series seems to be no more expensive than their non-ATX 3 ones.
TLDR: no, your power supply isn't obsolete. If you buy a new graphics card in the future though, you might need a power supply with a cable that directly plugs into your GPU.
I have a seasonic 650w 80+ gold powering my 3070+i7 10700k never had a problem (thank god) and people told me I was going to be short with it.. but if I ever upgrade to the upcoming nvidia 4xxx serie I would prob have to start looking at the 750 to 800+ hopefully this new standard is already in place by then!
I've had my 650watt 80 plus bronze EVGA psu since 2016 when I bought my first pc, I now have a 3600xt and a 3070 gaming oc and it's still handling it all like a beast. It has the mustard cables and no modularity but I still won't throw it away until the new spec becomes standard and well mine dies.
I have a 40 year old PSU I will never get rid of… just keep adding to the collection. Although nothing newer would work in the machine that one is in, lol
On top of all the great comments; Let's standardize wire gauges across the same damn brands. Looking at you, Corsair- modular cables that don't work because they skimped so hard it's "incompatible" because they essentially went with wiring so thin it may as well be used for flossing.
That Corsair AX 860 at the end, I had two of those attempt to self incinerate. The final RMA replacement still sits in the unopened box next to my bed. I decided I don't want to use it.
They need to standardize the pin I/O for the cabling (so modular cables only). There is no real reason for them to not be standard. This GPU/PSU communication nonsense will also lead to more issues in installation and troubleshooting
Well great I actually just put my hand on my PC and said thank you to it because you made me feel guilty, and now i feel stupid for hoping my PC feels sentimentality.
Well my 750w PSU handles my 3090, NVMe drives, full fat HDD drives and a beefed up 5600x power limit, alongside a whole bunch of USB devices Not once seen a crash due to power spikes So dont think my PSU is obsolete and adapter exist so even if it was an adapter negates anything that makes it obsolete Hell i have to draw over 640w before the things fan even turns on
@@ThatNormalBunny I got an 850 Watt PSU some years ago, thinking I would never need more than that for running a single high end GPU, well, I was wrong LOL
@@marcogenovesi8570 You need some kind of a chip on the adapter, since this cable is no longer just power delivery, it has additional wires which tell the GPU the max rated wattage of the PSU.
I actually did thank my PSU recently. 😂 I thought it was broke but turns out I just needed to reseat my RAM, I thanked it for working so well for so long.
When I made my first PC about 8 years ago I made the mistake of thinking that future graphics cards and CPUs would become more efficient and get higher performance to power ratios so I got a fanlesss 550W power supply (yes its still running, even as a media server spending most of its time on). Boy was I wrong! Now I know the best way to future proof is to get the power supply that pulls the maximum amount of power possible from the wall (1500W). I don't care how much faster cards can be with higher power, they are not going to convince people to install a 32 amp outlet in their bedroom!
@@graysonsmith7031 yeah I tried to future proof a bit as well. Didn't work out. I guess it's good if you don't care much about PC's anymore and just want it to work but if you're an enthusiast nothing is future proof
The one thing that I don’t even try to make last is the power supply. I had one explode on me after a few years use in its second system and since then I always get a new, good quality PSU for every build.
@@Alphabet7 I also got a board with usb 3.2 (the kind that's actually faster) as well as an expansion card, but only Type A because I figured we'd still be stuck with Type A for high speed or at least have the option for USB 3.2 Type A. I've definitely learned my lesson about future proofing.
Why service host (DCOM server process launcher ) is using too much cpu and how to deal with it its slowing my pc down i cant even update windows or open apps without crushing . PLS HELP
This is a good idea but done in a horrible way. The I/O should go to the motherboard which then talks to the GPU through the PCI. This way, the motherboard can also talk to the PSU, and keep TOTAL system load below the PSU maximum! GPU and CPU being able to communicate effectively.
The power supply's capacity can't be distributed arbitrarily across it's connectors. Each connector is connected to certain power buses, and each power bus is going to have an individual limit. The 12vhpwr connector will probably have dedicated power buses, meaning the GPU doesn't share with anything else and there wouldn't be anything for the motherboard to help with.
That would make all current motherboards incompatible and basically you're stuck with no GPU upgrades till your next PC upgrade which can be 5 - 10 years from whenever.
@@klikkolee You've missed out how 12VHPWR works, PSU tells the GPU how much power it can have, GPU then clocks itself lower to reduce power consumption to within PSU spec. That could easily happen with the CPU as well.
@@khalidacosta7133 I don't see how that contradicts anything I said. The CPU would probably also be given dedicated power buses for its connector, so the motherboard again can't really manage "total" load. The chipset might have some of the of the hardware for negotiation, but it'd just be mediating between the CPU and the power supply -- not needing to consider the power usage of other components of the PC.
I have about a dozen spare power supplies. I will end up using them for Halloween props. The 12v higher amperage is great for wiper motors and the 5 volts works for LEDS....LOL
If I remember correctly, there are also standards that let the motherboard control the voltage - PSU gives it 12V and it handles the rest - for me it would be kinda interesting to see some kind of a miniPC that has an actual ITX board inside, but is still powered by an external powersupply you can see in laptops :))
Pico PSU. They're still ATX PSUs, but they use an external brick to provide DC power and just a tiny little module that fits on top of the 24 pin connector to provide 12, 5, and 3.3v plus a couple of extra connections like SATA power.
Actually for a mini pc you'd want the exact oposite. The problem is that transformation is at least a bit inefficient and creates heat. For a mini pc where everything is very close together, do you really want to stick additional heat producers right between your already very toasty components, or would you rather that heat happens in the external power brick? Plus, there is no real reason why an external power brick can't have a multivolt output connector for your mini pc. All it does is limit the distance it can be away from the pc a bit
@@reappermen a multi--volt brick would need a multi pin input jack. Normally they just use 12-19 colt DC brick. Because the DC conversion internally is far easier.
one connector i have always hated is the big 24 pin for the motherbored, i hate how it's really hard to connect properly and needs a lot of force to put in and then needs a lot of force to remove even if you wiggle it gently, it feels like your going to break the bored with how much force you need, it would be nice to see a smaller connecter for motherbored power, like made something simler to the sata power connecter maybe like a longer version of that, it it would be a lot easier to connect and remove, plus take up less space.
Your goal with this channel was to supply a "Video-Dictionary" for everything tech and gaming, right? Well if you really want this to be that then you should probably put the topic in the Title! Here is an example: "Is Your Power Supply Obsolete? | ATX 3.0"
I've had my current 1050 watt power supply since 2009 from Corsair. 13 years is a pretty good run so a new power supply after that many years is not that bad.
This came out at exactly the right time. My PSU has started cutting out whenever I do anything intensive on my PC such has launch most games. Guess I'll get an eBay 2nd hand to tide me over until I plan to do a full PC upgrade next year.
Yeah, no, I don't want companies abusing the voltage negotiation chip to sell the same PSU at different price points but with intentionally nerfed power delivery.
@@pie75 Well, I suppose they could make it work on economy of scale, it usually wouldn't work because higher power means everything needs to be beefier and more expensive, but if you're buying a something like a million of them, maybe you can get the production costs low enough to be able to do that and you might be able to get away charging a slight premium for the fully unlocked models to make up for selling the lower end models cheaper. So yeah, it "could" technically work.
@@vgamesx1 but why do that when you can just do what they do now: have the same production line but put less parts into the cheaper versions which deliver less power economy of scale doesn't change that you're selling more expensive physical parts for less money than you could because ??? it's not a toy or a shoe, or an IC, where there's tons of room for binning it's a PSU that has to be built for its rated power overbuilding it is just spending money on stuff you're not selling
So I have a 4090 and want to get the Seasonic Vertex ATX 3.0 80 Plus Gold 1000W for the 12VHPWR connector. If the 600watt connector is only for watercooled gpus should I even be getting it. I am confussed.
Nvidia's new H100 SXM GPU draws 700W with two rows of VRMs on either side. That is 700W for a single chip. If they similarly blow up power on the gaming cards as well then yeah, current PSUs won't cut it anymore.
This is going to do the same thing to desktop GPU's that the mobile industry did with CPU cooling. Just skimp on it and let them throttle. Who cares if they throttle, at least we can put a cool number on the box that's higher than the competitor's product. OEM desktops are going to have RTX3080 cards with a 200W PSU, because with ATX 3.0 this will work fine. The consumer doesn't "see" the power throttling happening and will assume the degraded performance is normal. This is exaggerated of course, but the concept of under-speccing the PSU for this very reason, is definitely going to happen if something doesn't get mended.
Uhm, actually there is nothing stopping that from happening right now. In fact it appare tly has been happening for years. Remeber, the fancy component communication thing is just for automation. You can already set both general power focuses AND power limits via the BIOs for most boards, which then communicate them to the hardware parts. So an OEM that wants to skimp can just change BIOS numbers, which any cudtomer that wouldn't look at why their 3080 is performing so badly would never look at either.
While I agree with your sentiment, the thing is that very situation is happening RIGHT NOW with current ATX psu’s. It’s because OEMs know that the there is a not insignificant portion of their consumer base that doesn’t pay attention to every single specification on their builds
I have 3 power supplies that have served me very well for over a decade. All 3 are in the Corsair HX line: an HX750, an HX750i, and a HX1000i. None have shown any signs of trouble, so I'm not getting rid of them any time soon. The HX1000i is in my main system running two graphics cards, a RX6800XT and a RTX2080, while mining in off hours at 650W of usage, the HX750i is in my main VM host with a R7 3900X and 8 SATA SSDs and 6 HDDs, and the HX750 is in my secondary VM host with a Core i7 6950x and 10 SATA SSDs. So, they're not slacking. I hope this new power supply spec is avoidable.
It'll definitely be avoidable for at least a couple of years after it actually comes out. You've probably got another 3-10 years before you *need* a new PSU for new hardware.
they should also standardize the cables so that swapping cables between power supplies isnt a big deal
fr
That’d be great
That means every PSU *must* be modular. That's not going to happen, and modularity is seldom neccesary.
@@thany3 no, it only means every modular PSU can have compatible cables.
or just get non-modular LOL
Ah good, now I can troubleshoot the communication between my PSU and Graphics card. Just what I always wanted.
lol it’s one of those things that sounds awesome in theory, but might just end up being annoying.
@@LeftJoystick for now
Not really solving any problems while introducing new points of failure doesn't sound like the smartest idea
Its just dumb-logic, no data to decipher.
[Editing as an updated document was found, and I had swapped some pins]
S1 & S2 are from the card and listed as optional [pins are either low (ground) or high (3.3v) ]
S1 is Power Stable; enables the GPU to send an somethings wrong signal, so the PSU can cut power to the card.
S2 is Cable Present; lets the PSU know the GPU exists so it can adjust the power limit based on the number of cards.
S3 & S4 are from the PSU and define the power limit by leaving the pin open or grounding it. (GG=600, OG=450, GO=300, OO=150)
@@ttomkins4867 so an older psu with a connector converter will adjust to 150W ?
I agree with a lot of the comments here. Let's standardize the modular output of the PSU. Long term waste will be reduced and PSU companies could sell just the PSU and you can use the existing cables. The 20+4 or 24 pin header should be a straight cable, matching the motherboard pin for pin in terms of layout. The 24 pin header on the motherboard should be in the middle, not top or bottom of the board.
Mini ITX has entered the chat
@@DarkNia64 but does mini ITX one is as cheap as low end motherboard ? if not then no thx
Nou
One of the reasons why they haven't changed standards is because it's really expensive for both manufacturers and customers to switch to a new standard. That's why I can buy a new power supply off-the-shelf, and with a couple of molex adapters make it work in my old Pentium 1.
@@TheEDFLegacy Well, you people running your old Pentium I computers are the ones who need to jump through hoops to use a new power supply, not the rest , who represent 98% Sorry, you cannot expect tech to be backwards compatible forever.
They need to make all PSU's have the same ports on the rear, so mistakes like using the wrong cable from a different brand doesn't make things go Booom, which will also help with fewer cables going to land fills etc.
Yeah, and not just cables going to landfill, killed a mobo doing this just last year and had to buy a refurb board out of China to get something compatible with the old CPU - many people might have just scrapped the whole system at that point.
th-cam.com/video/fL0NySP4amo/w-d-xo.html
One cable for motherboard could be also nice.
I ran into this issue with my 1500W Titanium from ThermalTake. They called the 12V power for the board something different than what Zenith II called it so that was SUPER confusing. Apparently Thermaltake was using a SERVER -based terminology and I couldn't search for it online since no matter what combination of words I'd type NOTHING of relevance would show up. Since search engines now are complete shit.
Are you talking about modular supplies? Are you saying that different PSUs can share the same connectors on the rear but have different pinouts on those connectors?
Or do you mean something else?
I had to upgrade from my old non-modular psu becausr it didnt have 2 8 pins but this isn't a bad idea. I always love standardization and accessibility.
true that, too bad it's gonna take awhile for it to actually be a thing
Real World, we know the actual result, adapters are used, as happened with Founder Edition 3000 series cards, and AIBs ignored the Spec, and added another 8-pin connector.
My EVGA 3080Ti FTW£ has three 8-pins, not Nvidia's 12-pin, so rarely do specs created to meet an individual Companies needs, go on to get taken up by the industry at large.
My 2013 Corsair 1200, bought to cope with a future upgrade to 4 GPUs (Dropped that idea when multi- GPU support decreased over time) is still way overkill even for 4000 Series.
Also a great power supply as well, Corsair made them better then, than now, as the hurricane vid showed. Not going to stop using it until it finally dies on me.
@@uhurunuru6609 i mean with gpus drawing 450 watts. idk bout that.
@@kuma8030 One 8-pin is specified for 150 watts. Not sure if they changed that in a later revision.
@@roopey it is rated for that but it isnt rated for the spikes that those graphic card have. i mean you have what 3 8 pins connectors (right now with a 3080 for example that draws 320w since you can oc them and such it can go perfectly over 400w and it has spikes of 700w) the problem there with 450w cards like the 4090 is supossed to be you have to account for atleast 500/550w in oc. that graphic card would need 4 8pins connectors. that isnt good for the card since cables are heavy, it isnt space efficient(they would need to make the cards even longer or change the placement of the connectors) and and the most important thing: it ain't pretty none of the options are.
nor having a fucking squid that goes from 12+4 to 4 6+2 nor having a card with 4 cables that is longer than the atx connector
Supporting 200% overload for 10% of the time in 10us bursts shouldn't be too hard: at 2000W burst, that is 20mJ of storage and you only need 1400uF worth of low-ESZ capacitors to smooth it out. Since most PSUs already have 5000+uF on the 12V rail, the changes would be more about reducing ESZ to accommodate twice as much ripple current by using twice as many half-valued capacitors in parallel and tuning OCP/OPP protections. The ATX 3.0 spec will mostly affect low-end PSUs since it will force them to have much higher quality output filter capacitor banks than what they can currently get away with. Not as much of an issue for higher-end PSUs that are already doing this to ensure low ripples and long capacitor life for that 7-10 years warranty.
Wow, great answer. I was thinking about that part and how hard it seemed on the "1000+W" premium PSU's, but it makes sense that they would already be able to produce microseconds of high power due to the more expensive parts.
You are smart, so I shall take your word on what your just said. Yes
Why aren't they already adding caps to the graphics cards for that though? They should already know that their GPU does that and yet they don't address that by adding a cap or two to the the PCB? 16v 4700uF filter caps are pretty small and are lower profile than a GPU heatsink and costs around a buck. And that's for a high quality panasonic or rubycon a merely "good" quality cap costs way less than that. Though the cap tier list goes like Rubycon ->Panasonic -------------------------------------------->everyone else.
@@atomicskull6405 You may have one too many digits in there, 16V 4700uF caps are pretty bulky, 330-560uF is what you can get in a format that can be squeezed under the HSF and GPUs already have quite a few of those already. The amount of bypass capacitors on there is only meant to compensate for PSU wiring impedance and feed the VRM.
Even if you put a few more capacitors on the GPU, those still get chonked during power spikes which drops their voltage. Between the increased GPU capacitor bank size and its lower impedance, the PSU still ends up seeing a good chunk of those spikes after wiring impedance delay and attenuation, and still needs to be able to cope with them.
Also, capacitors in a PSU have a lot more available space and cool airflow available than those stuffed under a GPU's HSF, which makes the PSU a much more appropriate location for bulk filtering.
Hmm yes the electricity is electric.
i actually say "thank you" to my psu with its fancy protection systmes everytime there is a tiny surge or spike of the electricity. the modem restarts, the monitor restarts, even the tv switches off, but my desktop goes strong without any issues.
btw its a 10yo coolermaster 600W semi-modular
XFX 10 year old PSU here too!
Decade long PSU owners rejoice!
You should know that power efficiency drops with usage over the years. That 10yo PSU might be throwing 300w right now if you're lucky.
@@sovo1212 You are wrong
Cooler master silent pro 650w 15 year old psu here join the club.great psu for many generation of my computer
@@pedromartins4847 i have the xfx too750w by 12 years!
Last time I bought a power supply was 2008. A 1200w Akasa PSU. Still rocking after being on over 300 days every year since.
Power supplies for this new spec have already been announced from multiple manufacturers. Word is the 3090 Ti will be using the new connector too (same as the 30 series FE connector plus the 4 extra pins.)
@John-Paul Hunt I fear for SFF builds in the future... I don't think proper
Asus announced that their 1000w and 1200w PSUs with the new PCIe 5.0 connector would release Q1 this year. Nearly Q2 and so far only their 1000w has released. Seems like the 1200w PCIe 5.0 model has been delayed.
A GPU that requires the PCIe 5.0 should be using minimum 1200w PSUs. And the one that is most usefull us being withheld.
@@coolmemesbudd The new 12VHPWR connector doesn't always have to output 600W. The four data/sense pins on the connector tells the GPU that the PSU is capable of either 150/300/450/600W over the PCIe cable. So even SFX power supplies can use the new cable since the biggest advantage of it is that you only need one cable to the GPU, rather than two or three 6/8-pin cables.
Incidentally, I do run a Seasonic Focus GX-750 in my system. My previous PSU didn't have an NTC thermistor for inrush current limitation and would trip my game room's circuit breaker every so often when I fired up the rig. With the GX-750 that problem is gone, and for that reason alone I tell it how much I love it every day.
It does work hard and it deserves time off, but I've got my needs, so it will have to work until it dies. I'm a monster, I know.
i have a focus gx also bought it around 2020 now am looking to upgrade to a 4080 super and still confused as to do i need a new psu or the non atx 3.0 focus gx is enough?
I spent good money on my 650w EVGA G2 five years ago and I’m damn well gonna run it till it’s 10year warranty is done.
I've got the 750W G2, and it's still going. Best power supply I've ever bought.
I think Super Flower is to thank for that, as EVGA might've switched to something different for their newer units.
I'm still using this salvaged PSU to power my gtx 1650 and its pretty good, would recommend dumpster diving for again 10/10 👌
Cybenetics is certainly a step up from the god-awful 80+ system, but in-depth reviews will still be important to test things like protections and electrical characteristics. The latter is covered in the cybenetics test reports, though they are not factored into the final rating.
Do you know any site or channel that does in-depth reviews on PSUs? Especially interested in noise testing.
Hmmm... Gamer's Nexus & Igor's Lab?
Dont know of any others, that would do such a thing... :)
@@kitsunesenpai441 I've seen GN making noise analysis on CPU coolers. Haven't seen on PSUs. I'll check. And Igor. Thx.
@@Sekir80 Hardware Busters International (for english ppl) channel is owned by the creator of Cybernetics, so except a lot of PSU tests (already are a lot).
@@kitsunesenpai441 Techpowerup and Tomshardware articles (both from creator of Hardware Busters International and Cybenetics), are the current gold standard.
Hey there pc p&c silencer 610. We’ve had some times haven’t we? 2006 - 2022 and counting.
From when we first met, you got put into the bare bones special case after the stock PSU let its smoke out into the world. First worked together powering that Prescott cpu and some nameless ATI agp slotted GPU.
Things sure changed after that. Stepped up to DDR2 memory, a Conroe E6600, and that beast of a GTS 8600. Even got us airflow minded new case with some massive 80mm fans. Serious business now.
Things got real crazy when that gtx460 found it’s way into the case, followed by that eBay special Wolfdale 8600. Oh the upgrade possibilities of that socket 775.
Then we stepped bravely into the future together. That i7 7700k and the jump right past ddr3 into the bleeding edge ddr4 hotness. One good upgrade deserves another and now you are powering the gtx2070, with all its ups and downs. Outlasting a set of case fans that got too loud for their own good? No sweat.
We laugh together at the thought of new connectors while dangling chains of unused molex connections still dreaming of their ide hard drives.
The last time I thanked my psu for its service was last week when I opened it and cleaned the dust out of it for our 10 year anniversary. It was disgusting, I wonder what the percentage is of people who actually do that. What would be the percentage of preventable deaths related to dust related conductivity or heat? I expect to get 30 years at least out of it, and it runs 4x 390x cards 24\7, and has done for 5 years now. The hardest worn part of the entire thing is the power switch on the back, if anything at all dies, my money is on that.
Lmao I have a 1000w 7 year old PSU and made a comment on a GN video about how I'm glad I bought a larger PSU in the past because new cards like the 3090ti are pulling 500w+ and quite a few dummies tried to tell me my old PSU is on its last legs! And that if I tried to run a 500w card it would fail! It's like ya right... there is no need to constantly upgrade a PSU... hell they even still make and sell my PSU model. My psu is 93% efficient at 50% load and 90% at 100%. No need to upgrade unless it dies. Oh... and I have a 10 year warranty so got 3 more years out of it!
Some people (and sadly, the huge majority of people you find in places like here) have absolutely nothing else in their life, no other hobbies or interests at all to spend their money on, so they buy stupid like a new CPU every single time one is shat out with a 6% increase over the previous gen, I think its hilarious!!
I bought this 1000w psu back in 2012, and I paid a good price for it when you look at what PSU's cost these days. But really, the only downside to buying the big burtha, is that when its not under any real load (which is 99% of the time) it is very inefficient. When just sitting on the desktop, or using a browser, watching a video, typing a document, all that light stuff, you might be drawing like 50w maybe? It could be a lot less, depends what you have. But when you are drawing less than 20% of the psus rated output, efficiency goes to shit, when its under 5% load it can fall under 70٪ efficiency, mine for example as reviewed by TPU, with an output between 40w - 60w is only 68% efficient! For a machine that is on 24/7, that is quite the waste. If I had of chosen a 500w instead of a 1000w PSU, then 50w would have been a 10% load rather than 5% load it is for the 1000w model, and efficiency goes from 67% up to 80% from 5% to 10% load respectively on my unit. So the point there, is you can gain huge efficiency by getting a lower output PSU. I would never buy a psu just based off its efficiency rating because what matters is how you use it, and it will always have the highest efficiency at half its rated output.
Did the same thing on my OCZ 700W PSU, plus changing the fan. I don't know how that thing is still alive.
I like that on this channel you actually write titles that let you understand the content.
I'm surprised it took this long to get PSUs that can communicate with the entire hardware stack. That's the biggest thing out of this IMO.
Technically we've had some for a while now, like the Corsair AXi series, but it was more for monitoring the power supply via software rather than a two-way communication AFAIK. Haven't owned one, only a non-i model.
Well, because it's not necessary in this context. It makes sense when there are many variables, for example when using USB-PD. Hundreds of different cables and thousands of devices.
A PSU in a PC on the other hand is quite predictable. There are specs for connectors, cables and how much power they can deliver. As long as the manufacturers follows them there is no need for any communication.
It's just another point of failure for little benefits. There are many more important improvements that are needed to be standardized.
@@Diapolo10 The AXi's software can switch the 12V from 1 rail to 2
I had an RM850i and the communication is a criteria for buying a PSU as I had a bad experience with my first PSU and those issues are hard to investigate
This will pave the way for vendor locking GPUs and PSUs, mark my words.
Thanks. My sister and I had to grab a new psu for her new build I just recently built for her to be ready for future upgrades etc. I'm gonna do the same when I upgrade to 13th Gen later this year. :)
Electrical Engineer Student here. Currently dealing with power electronics for my senior project. A PSU outputting 2x its wattage for 10μs is nutty. I am used to dealing with some chonky parts for power spikes in the 10ns range, I can't imagine what it would be like designing a supply for 10μs 2x peaks. Id expect these new PSUs to go between 1.7x to 2x current pricing tbh
I'd rather have to pay more for a better, more protected product than have to pay more for a GPU just because of supply issues
Officially it's 100μs at 2x max rated capacity. This is on Cybenetics website.
1:30 I can see how this will be used for vendor locking purposes.
I miss my old Asus Strix 750 ti. No power connector, it ran off the power it got from the slot. Oh well, I will see what the upcoming AMD AM5 APUs are capable of.
No discrete graphics card, and M.2 NVME drive, so the only cables I have to worry about are the fans and that glorious ARGB.
Honestly of they are good enough i might skip the graphics card altogether for a few more years. I'm already getting decent frames in new releases in 1080-1440 with the 4750g.
@Lightning Hydra My 3200G has about the same performance as my old 750 ti. Enabling XMP on 3200 DDR4 makes it faster than the factory OC of the 750 ti with the same 2GB of dedicated video RAM.
AMD will intentionally cripple these APUs as not to endanger PS5 market . They need to sell chips to Sony for few more years , so games on their APUs must not look better than console games.
I'm definitely going to upgrade once ATX 3.0 releases. I'm running a 600w PSU from 2007
I kinda want to see this new spec happen. I probably won't need a new PSU for years, but it sounds cool.
mhm
Watch them all be scalped, because they just love to shit on everything new and fun like this.
@@bunnygirls556 bruh
@@bunnygirls556 it's 23:52 here
th-cam.com/video/fL0NySP4amo/w-d-xo.html
I’ve been using the same 1,000 watt psu that came from my brothers PC built in 2008. I’m also using the old ibuypower case that came with it.
The ATX standard dropped the ball back when the GPU power cables were added. They could have simplified it so much and instead made it all more complicated than it had to be. The logical thing would have been to make the ATX-12V and EPS power connector compatible with the GPU power connectors. But no, instead they swapped the power and ground 180 degrees and used a plug that was slightly differently keyed. For no good reason what so ever they felt they needed to create a new plug.
But that's water under the bridge. Now they are creating a new standard again, supposedly for a good reason as now the GPU and PSU are supposed to be able to communicate about what the PSU is actually capable to deliver in the way of power. I'm not yet sold on it, but at least it should mean one less connector that is close enough you can actually force the wrong cable to lock in. Yes, I've seen people managed to cram a EPS connector into a graphics card and the other way around. Lets just say it's usually not a good thing...
Or simply include more pcie and cpu power connectors. Ita been 10 years and nothing changed. Low spec psu still have same connectors and high end psu more connectors. I do get that noone wants to plug a idk 3080 into a lets say vs corsair. But still this should have been standard by now to include more power connectors especially for gpu. Or example fan 4 pin on motherboard. Why do we still have a limit on low end boards..... why cant we have more than 4 fan header. My b450 toma max has 4 normal fan header 1 cpu and 1 pump...
Seriously, one to two extra connectors is too much now?
I'm quite fond of them and the less power going through the motherboard the better.
After all, CPU has their cable, HDD has their cable, why shouldn't the graphics card have their own cable?
@@JonatasAdoM It's not the number of connectors or cables that's the problem in my opinion, but the types. PCI-e power connectors should never have been invented. Instead they should just have used EPS-12V connectors for the graphics cards. One less type of connector to worry about, just put two more of them on the PSU and call it a day. Instead they came up with the PCI-e power connector, and made it in two versions, 6 and 8 pin. Now if you look at the 6 pin version there's actually not all six pins used for power delivery, instead it's three +12V and 2 ground pins. They could just as well used a 4-pin ATX Power connector and had the option to use two for 8-pins of power delivery just like a lot of ATX PSU's have done to support both ATX and EPS power.
Now this new connector is interesting, but again it's a special one. The 12VO standard has been talked about for a long time now, and they keep threatening us with it replacing the old ATX power connector "real soon now". If that comes around there will be just two kinds of connector on the cables from the PSU, the 12VO (ten pins I think) and this new graphics card connector. Drives, fans, pumps and whatever else it supposed to be driven off the motherboard. To me it sounds limiting, but we'll see what happens. Heck I was miffed by the ATX standard back in the day. But it pushed the old IBM PC standard PSU out of the market pretty quickly. It did bring some nice things like being able to wake a computer over the network, set wake timers and standby functionality so it was more than just a new formfactor for PSU and the power connectors for the motherboard.
@@blahorgaslisk7763 Honestly, 12V0 and ATX 3.0 aren't any good.
Mainboards are the most problematic monolith in a system. If any single part fails (networking, audio, storage controller, and so on) the whole board might become a paper weight (worst case).
Mainboards simply became too complex and now they also want to force functions from the PSU into the mainboard. There is a reason why PCs and Servers are modular...
The new connector in ATX 3.0 isn't a bad idea, but why add communication in? There are simpler ways to do this...
Well, I get why they added it. Simply because , some idiot monkey will try to connect a 800 watt GPU to a 400 Watt crap PSU. But, then it's their problem for not reading the damn manual.
@@roopey I agree with most everything you wrote. I was building computers back when the only I/O that was actually on the MB was the keyboard port. Everything else came on expansion cards. There were even mouse port cards...
Then these started to get integrated. The serial ports and a parallel port got integrated into one card. Floppy controller and HDD interface was another pretty logical combo, and once IDE became the default standard for PC's these combo cards were almost always used. Next step was to combine serial ports, parallel port, FDD and IDE controller on a single card. Now you only needed a graphics card and a combo I/O card in your PC and it was usable. Network cards were actually not all that common yet.
Sound cards started to become affordable, but most people still didn't feel they were necessary. It wasn't really before the CD player got cheap that the sound cards started to really sell, and then it often was sold in a multimedia package with speakers and a CD player. This made the sound card manufacturers include a suitable controller for the CD player on the sound card. Most of these were using a IDE controller, but some went with a SCSI controller.
And then Intel dropped the ATX standard. Suddenly serial ports, parallel ports, FDD and IDE controllers, PS/2 mouse port, sound and sometimes even a network port were integrated on the motherboard.
Suddenly we had a single point of failure in the motherboard. Any of these ports stopped working and the motherboard was compromised.
We've gone from a PC having a minimum of five expansion cards to a PC that doesn't need any expansion card to work, or a minimum of one, a graphics card, if the GPU in the processor doesn't cut it.
Now I feel the 12VO standard is a bit interesting, but at the same time it will make the most compact computers less capable.
Think about it. A Micro-ITX card is pretty cramped already. They often have pretty few USB ports, not to many SATA ports, one or possibly two NVMe ports, and of course a single PCI-e slot.
If you make it 12VO then you need to add VRM for 3,3V and 5V and power connectors to support the number of SATA drives the MB can use. That's more PCB real estate that has to come from somewhere on an already cramped motherboard.
What probably will happen is that these Micro-ITX motherboards will cut down on SATA ports or possibly entirely eliminate them. This is not something that a lot of users will care about as long as they get two NVMe ports, but it's still less functionality for questionable gain in power efficiency.
My pc used to shutdown when running benchmarks with my 3080 was using 2 separate 8 pin cables plus one of the pig tails that comes with the cable. Switched to 3 separate cables and it fixed the issue. RM850x PSU.
I have a 1000W Corsair RM Gold PSU, i bought it for long terme use and it's 10y warranty
so no, manufacturer should give/sell adaptors or landfills will be quickly full
That's a great video, Teckquickie. Nice quality video with stills too, animation.
And a clear concise narrative.
Thank you.
I like the data cables, it would enable a whole new set of fancy meters on the control panel. But I really hope they make it with good reusability and stability.
I am still using an 8 year old 300W (passive cooled "typewriter" 80+bronze) and an 10 year old 450W (gaming 80+gold) PSU.
My question is if this will be enforced on integrated power supplies in prebuilt and other similar computing devices.
Nope
Probably not. OEM manufacturers don't have to play by the rules, because they make their own.
Look at HP. I have one of their OEM machines, that have a very proprietary board along with it's proprietary PSU. It's 180w and it uses 2 4-pin connectors, presumably one for CPU and one for system. It also has another connector with small pins on it, probably for communication. When that connector is no longer, well, connected, the system will only briefly boot up, and abruptly shut down.
@@nika_0 Yes but at least for Dell Optiplex Systems that we buy at work, you can choose from 80+ Gold or Platinum on the built in PSU, so they are efficient too, even if proprietary. They also have EPEAT gold
Even the things that should already be standardized, like MB 24 pin connectors, fan headers, and motherboard form factors themselves, are not standard on a lot of OEM prebuilts.
So no, probably not.
Thank god I found this video.
Going to upgrade my PSU, almost bought one that's not ATX 3.
Corsair's Shift series seems to be no more expensive than their non-ATX 3 ones.
TLDR: no, your power supply isn't obsolete. If you buy a new graphics card in the future though, you might need a power supply with a cable that directly plugs into your GPU.
But my current PSU has a cable that plugs directly into my GPU.
you might need an adapter*
The new GPUs will supply the required adapter.
@Sparhawk122 I remember seeing a PSU with only 1 gpu cable and it too came with an adapter
Just replace "you might need" for "you might be forced to buy".
I have a seasonic 650w 80+ gold powering my 3070+i7 10700k never had a problem (thank god) and people told me I was going to be short with it.. but if I ever upgrade to the upcoming nvidia 4xxx serie I would prob have to start looking at the 750 to 800+ hopefully this new standard is already in place by then!
I've had my 650watt 80 plus bronze EVGA psu since 2016 when I bought my first pc, I now have a 3600xt and a 3070 gaming oc and it's still handling it all like a beast. It has the mustard cables and no modularity but I still won't throw it away until the new spec becomes standard and well mine dies.
If that's a BT or BV, you should replace it ASAP.
@@nunyabeeswax3012 Why?
@@nunyabeeswax3012 why?
eVGA are great typically as well
@@nunyabeeswax3012 You can't just say something is bad and not say why.
I have a 40 year old PSU I will never get rid of… just keep adding to the collection. Although nothing newer would work in the machine that one is in, lol
Now obsolete due to melting gpu concerns. ATX 3.1 is coming soon.
I have a corsair tx750w for more than 10 years now and It never had any issues
Great video LMG team! Not only is this interesting and well-written, but it's also really important to know about.
It's so good to see everybody caring about our mother earth... Let's make this planet a clean and non hazardous place.... #SAVESOIL #HEALTHYEARTH
I was just looking for Power Supplies on ebay then I get notified this video.
Still thinking to move into higher voltage. Like adding 24, 36, or 48v rail. So it's required lesser cable or connector for higher/same power.
Go with the beefier cable. Less resistance losses and more durable.
Not the case becuase all connectors on a PSU always coming from Molex.
At the end of the video, Linus said, "Intel is pushing this new standard, but they might hit some resistance." 😁
Everything's moves on so fast, that stuffs pretty much obsolete as soon as you walk out of the store with it!
Your PSU has always been obsolete, just send mains to your motherboard.more volts, more FPS
Rumor has it the 4090 launch in just 60 days and use ~600W yet not a single ATX 3.0 PSU is available for purchase.
On top of all the great comments; Let's standardize wire gauges across the same damn brands. Looking at you, Corsair- modular cables that don't work because they skimped so hard it's "incompatible" because they essentially went with wiring so thin it may as well be used for flossing.
That Corsair AX 860 at the end, I had two of those attempt to self incinerate. The final RMA replacement still sits in the unopened box next to my bed. I decided I don't want to use it.
If the connectors are a industry standard they should make the pin outs the same so you don’t blow up your computer when u mis match cables
I like how the sponsor is Seasonic and every picture in the Video outside of the sponsoring part is a Corsair PSU
They need to standardize the pin I/O for the cabling (so modular cables only). There is no real reason for them to not be standard. This GPU/PSU communication nonsense will also lead to more issues in installation and troubleshooting
Damn, i just bought an rm850x. I hope the 40 series still uses the standard 8 pin connectors.
Well great I actually just put my hand on my PC and said thank you to it because you made me feel guilty, and now i feel stupid for hoping my PC feels sentimentality.
0:54 Even if a particular card is on the more power-hungry side. The RTX 3090 Ti I require 2x of 12VHPWR Cables.
A question.
Is ATX 3.0 and ATX 12V the same standard? If not that is a major oversight.
It's funny that you guys displayed the AX860 in the end. Mine is currently powering its 3rd system :D
Well my 750w PSU handles my 3090, NVMe drives, full fat HDD drives and a beefed up 5600x power limit, alongside a whole bunch of USB devices
Not once seen a crash due to power spikes
So dont think my PSU is obsolete and adapter exist so even if it was an adapter negates anything that makes it obsolete
Hell i have to draw over 640w before the things fan even turns on
It will be many years before I buy the ATX 3.0 power supplies. Just bought a brand new Corsair 850, which is as big as I plan to go.
I wonder if there is gonna be an adapter for old power supplies, probably not given those extra 4 pins.
Nah they don't want you using old stuff and not giving them money they want a good couple of grand for the privilege to use their new PSU
@@ThatNormalBunny I got an 850 Watt PSU some years ago, thinking I would never need more than that for running a single high end GPU, well, I was wrong LOL
It'll probably be possible to use an adapter for consumer cards for at least a few years after the first ATX 3.0 products come out.
dude it's like a wire and a couple connectors. Of course there will be an adapter, it's like saying that you can't convert Molex to Sata power
@@marcogenovesi8570 You need some kind of a chip on the adapter, since this cable is no longer just power delivery, it has additional wires which tell the GPU the max rated wattage of the PSU.
I’ve had my Corsair gs800 since 2012 and it’s still going strong. Let’s hope I haven’t jinxed but damn, these really do last a very long time.
Still have myn since 2010 650wat gold corsair
Interesting idea, but i suspect it's going to be a few generations away.
Seasonic is launching their Vertex PSUs that are compatible with the ATX 3.0 and PCIe 5.0 standards mid December!
Hmmm.. I wonder if Intel’s new GPUs are prone to massive spikes in power draw…
I actually did thank my PSU recently. 😂 I thought it was broke but turns out I just needed to reseat my RAM, I thanked it for working so well for so long.
Okay ... and how are ATX 3.0 and the also new ATX12V related?
I just bought a 750w Platinum Seasonic PSU too! I'm just gonna accept my upgrades are last gen.
When I made my first PC about 8 years ago I made the mistake of thinking that future graphics cards and CPUs would become more efficient and get higher performance to power ratios so I got a fanlesss 550W power supply (yes its still running, even as a media server spending most of its time on). Boy was I wrong! Now I know the best way to future proof is to get the power supply that pulls the maximum amount of power possible from the wall (1500W). I don't care how much faster cards can be with higher power, they are not going to convince people to install a 32 amp outlet in their bedroom!
The actual best way to future proof is to not future proof at all.
@@Alphabet7 That is true, I also did not know/ignored that at the time.
@@graysonsmith7031 yeah I tried to future proof a bit as well. Didn't work out. I guess it's good if you don't care much about PC's anymore and just want it to work but if you're an enthusiast nothing is future proof
The one thing that I don’t even try to make last is the power supply. I had one explode on me after a few years use in its second system and since then I always get a new, good quality PSU for every build.
@@Alphabet7 I also got a board with usb 3.2 (the kind that's actually faster) as well as an expansion card, but only Type A because I figured we'd still be stuck with Type A for high speed or at least have the option for USB 3.2 Type A. I've definitely learned my lesson about future proofing.
Why service host (DCOM server process launcher ) is using too much cpu and how to deal with it its slowing my pc down i cant even update windows or open apps without crushing . PLS HELP
Does this spec also include the 12vo standard?
Same doubt here
No that's separate.
Honestly, doesn't sound half bad with those new ratings.
This is a good idea but done in a horrible way. The I/O should go to the motherboard which then talks to the GPU through the PCI. This way, the motherboard can also talk to the PSU, and keep TOTAL system load below the PSU maximum! GPU and CPU being able to communicate effectively.
The power supply's capacity can't be distributed arbitrarily across it's connectors. Each connector is connected to certain power buses, and each power bus is going to have an individual limit. The 12vhpwr connector will probably have dedicated power buses, meaning the GPU doesn't share with anything else and there wouldn't be anything for the motherboard to help with.
That would make all current motherboards incompatible and basically you're stuck with no GPU upgrades till your next PC upgrade which can be 5 - 10 years from whenever.
@@klikkolee You've missed out how 12VHPWR works, PSU tells the GPU how much power it can have, GPU then clocks itself lower to reduce power consumption to within PSU spec. That could easily happen with the CPU as well.
@@ScaredDonut Nope, no I/O connected, PSU just goes into "dumb" mode and operates as your standard PSU. Forward and backward compatibility assured.
@@khalidacosta7133 I don't see how that contradicts anything I said. The CPU would probably also be given dedicated power buses for its connector, so the motherboard again can't really manage "total" load. The chipset might have some of the of the hardware for negotiation, but it'd just be mediating between the CPU and the power supply -- not needing to consider the power usage of other components of the PC.
I have about a dozen spare power supplies. I will end up using them for Halloween props. The 12v higher amperage is great for wiper motors and the 5 volts works for LEDS....LOL
With energy getting more expensive I'd rather have Nvidia, AMD, etc work on more efficient hardware. Just like the ARM Cpus, see the M1 for example.
Still using my coolermaster psu RS450-ACLY from 2005, for nostalgia reason as it has a cool watt-o-meter
If I remember correctly, there are also standards that let the motherboard control the voltage - PSU gives it 12V and it handles the rest - for me it would be kinda interesting to see some kind of a miniPC that has an actual ITX board inside, but is still powered by an external powersupply you can see in laptops :))
There are ITX boards like that, although nothing high end.
Pico PSU.
They're still ATX PSUs, but they use an external brick to provide DC power and just a tiny little module that fits on top of the 24 pin connector to provide 12, 5, and 3.3v plus a couple of extra connections like SATA power.
That's been around for ages in prebuilt systems.
LTT did a video ages ago on the 12VATX standard too.
Actually for a mini pc you'd want the exact oposite. The problem is that transformation is at least a bit inefficient and creates heat.
For a mini pc where everything is very close together, do you really want to stick additional heat producers right between your already very toasty components, or would you rather that heat happens in the external power brick?
Plus, there is no real reason why an external power brick can't have a multivolt output connector for your mini pc. All it does is limit the distance it can be away from the pc a bit
@@reappermen a multi--volt brick would need a multi pin input jack.
Normally they just use 12-19 colt DC brick. Because the DC conversion internally is far easier.
do we know yet if we need to get a new psu?
one connector i have always hated is the big 24 pin for the motherbored, i hate how it's really hard to connect properly and needs a lot of force to put in and then needs a lot of force to remove even if you wiggle it gently, it feels like your going to break the bored with how much force you need, it would be nice to see a smaller connecter for motherbored power, like made something simler to the sata power connecter maybe like a longer version of that, it it would be a lot easier to connect and remove, plus take up less space.
Yeah fuck the 24 pin connector. I still don't get how they haven't addressed that by now.
Has everyone forgotten about ATX12VO? I remember seeing a decent bit of coverage about it but it seems to have just disappeared.
@@2KDrop sadly, no one wants it because it is either not backwards compatible or requires a relatively fancy adapter to work with old components.
@@2KDrop VO was a fire induced nightmare it was dropped quick
2:24 I was thinking the exact same thing.
Combine this with AMD and DDR5 you get the best ECHO system of 2022.
Could you elaborate?
Eco system or Echo system?
I'll just use Molex->12VHPWR adapter.
Your goal with this channel was to supply a "Video-Dictionary" for everything tech and gaming, right?
Well if you really want this to be that then you should probably put the topic in the Title!
Here is an example: "Is Your Power Supply Obsolete? | ATX 3.0"
But obscure click bait titles gather more views.
I've had my current 1050 watt power supply since 2009 from Corsair. 13 years is a pretty good run so a new power supply after that many years is not that bad.
Linus: "Don't have a high-end gpu? Haha, join the club."
Oh please Linus, you're not in the club, you're not even welcome in that club.
Hate when rich people, especially big tech, act like theyre one of us for the memes.
Thank you, Power Supply, I appreciate you. 😊
This came out at exactly the right time. My PSU has started cutting out whenever I do anything intensive on my PC such has launch most games.
Guess I'll get an eBay 2nd hand to tide me over until I plan to do a full PC upgrade next year.
Great that I just bought a 1000w PSU to last me the next 10-15 years. My timing is on point
Yeah, no, I don't want companies abusing the voltage negotiation chip to sell the same PSU at different price points but with intentionally nerfed power delivery.
Why would they sell a more expensive PSU for less money by reducing power delivery
@@pie75 Maybe so they can sell you dlc to upgrade it later. With a subscription of course. And only if you buy an NFT.
@@pie75 I can see GPU manufacturers abusing this.
@@pie75 Well, I suppose they could make it work on economy of scale, it usually wouldn't work because higher power means everything needs to be beefier and more expensive, but if you're buying a something like a million of them, maybe you can get the production costs low enough to be able to do that and you might be able to get away charging a slight premium for the fully unlocked models to make up for selling the lower end models cheaper.
So yeah, it "could" technically work.
@@vgamesx1 but why do that when you can just do what they do now:
have the same production line but put less parts into the cheaper versions which deliver less power
economy of scale doesn't change that you're selling more expensive physical parts for less money than you could because ???
it's not a toy or a shoe, or an IC, where there's tons of room for binning
it's a PSU that has to be built for its rated power
overbuilding it is just spending money on stuff you're not selling
LOl I got the AXi860, which is the digital version of the 860 and ive had it for 8-9 years at this point.
Can we all take moment to appreciate the work this man is doing to entertain and educate us? Man thank you very much
So I have a 4090 and want to get the Seasonic Vertex ATX 3.0 80 Plus Gold 1000W for the 12VHPWR connector. If the 600watt connector is only for watercooled gpus should I even be getting it. I am confussed.
Nvidia's new H100 SXM GPU draws 700W with two rows of VRMs on either side. That is 700W for a single chip. If they similarly blow up power on the gaming cards as well then yeah, current PSUs won't cut it anymore.
The PCI-E version of that is only 350W though with 80% of the compute power.
Crazy to think that 1000w power supplies were for heavy duty not long ago. We'll hit 2kW supplies in no time.
I'm still rocking the EVGA supernova 1300 watt PSU for a VERY long time now... I should get it tested lol
This is going to do the same thing to desktop GPU's that the mobile industry did with CPU cooling. Just skimp on it and let them throttle. Who cares if they throttle, at least we can put a cool number on the box that's higher than the competitor's product.
OEM desktops are going to have RTX3080 cards with a 200W PSU, because with ATX 3.0 this will work fine. The consumer doesn't "see" the power throttling happening and will assume the degraded performance is normal. This is exaggerated of course, but the concept of under-speccing the PSU for this very reason, is definitely going to happen if something doesn't get mended.
Uhh, that's only a factor for an ignoramus that buys a pre-made PC instead of building his own...
Uhm, actually there is nothing stopping that from happening right now. In fact it appare tly has been happening for years.
Remeber, the fancy component communication thing is just for automation. You can already set both general power focuses AND power limits via the BIOs for most boards, which then communicate them to the hardware parts. So an OEM that wants to skimp can just change BIOS numbers, which any cudtomer that wouldn't look at why their 3080 is performing so badly would never look at either.
While I agree with your sentiment, the thing is that very situation is happening RIGHT NOW with current ATX psu’s. It’s because OEMs know that the there is a not insignificant portion of their consumer base that doesn’t pay attention to every single specification on their builds
I have 3 power supplies that have served me very well for over a decade. All 3 are in the Corsair HX line: an HX750, an HX750i, and a HX1000i. None have shown any signs of trouble, so I'm not getting rid of them any time soon. The HX1000i is in my main system running two graphics cards, a RX6800XT and a RTX2080, while mining in off hours at 650W of usage, the HX750i is in my main VM host with a R7 3900X and 8 SATA SSDs and 6 HDDs, and the HX750 is in my secondary VM host with a Core i7 6950x and 10 SATA SSDs. So, they're not slacking. I hope this new power supply spec is avoidable.
It'll definitely be avoidable for at least a couple of years after it actually comes out. You've probably got another 3-10 years before you *need* a new PSU for new hardware.
Hahaha. Can't wait for the first pre-builds with high-end GPUs severely throttled by cheap, undersized PSUs.
One doesn’t experience self transcendence, the illusion of self only dissipates..🎈
Why not just have the graphics card come with its own wall plug. Look like, we're heading there anyways.
meanwhile im looking at my old 530green psu that connected to 5x hhd and r9 280x oc and 4x big fan (molex) and mb ofc :)
its obsolete because next gen graphics cards will take more power then my psu can provide
Can’t wait for the 5090 oc cards that need both a 12vhpwr and an additional 8 pin cable.