There is a way to produce pins without using crystals. Basically the game will not allow you to have a shape with layers more than permitted (4 layers on hard, 5 on insane). If you try to stack more layers, the top layers get removed until you have the permitted number of layers. So for hard, all you need to do is get a full shape with pins under it, stack it on top of a 3-layer half shape, which will destroy the full shape, and the pins under the hanging half will fall down. So you end up with half pins and half 4-layer that you can destroy. From there you can double the build, merge the 2 pin halfs, et voila! This is especially useful when you have not unlocked crystals yet, or when you don't want to deal with the input of color for crystals. All you need is any full shape and any half shape (which can just be cut form the same full shape).
Another way to create pin super easily: - take any full shape - pin until the shape disappear (4 or 5 times depending on difficulty) - crystalize (the whole thing will become a crystal) - pin once more: the whole crystal gets destroyed (because the top layer is thrown out by the pinner), and you are left with a single layer of pins
Here are two optimizations I believe will work, in order of how much I believe they work (just saves a bit on cost and variance) - You don't need to quite pop the original shape off the top before crystalizing, as the final pinning will take care of that. That saves you one time of needing to pin, but not really any more. - You don't even need a full shape, since crystalization will fill in any gaps. That saves you looking around for a full shape, allowing you to use any convenient miner spot rather than looking for a full shape (or split into quarters before getting full-pins for each quarter. Go insane if you want. At that point, it's colors that'll be your bottleneck)
@@minamagdy4126 you are completely right. We a shape with a missing quarter, you can remove one of the pinning process, so in normal: - pin 3 times - crystalize - pin
@tomdeboerio3639 I just noticed that my modified scheme actually won't work for a full shape, since the idea behind yours relies on there being crystal in the top layer. In that case, either split/laser it in half first or do the extra pinning.
@@neyirerdeser3913 the problem is color-r -> 0 -> 1 when you want to keep color-r. Which is typically the case for filters. So I meant non-(null or 0) ;)
This is great and absolutely not cheating. I'm certain it's an intended mechanic. I actually had the exact same idea to do pins for my MAM which I have been building alongside your series although I'm trying for fun to design all my own blueprints and am a bit behind you now.
On 19:37 you added liquid wagons, but later in the video you have pins comming into MAM without problem. Did you fix it behind the scenes? Or you can put pins into a liquid wagon?
There is an easier way to get pins. A 1x1 platform that puts four layers of pins under any full shape, so you're just left with four layers of pins. Run that through a crystalizer and then add one level of pins afterwards. That will break all four layers of crystals and leave you with one layer of pins.
Clever solution! Very expensive paint-wise, of course, but at this point I guess resources are effectively infinite, as long as you take the time to mine them, so that's not really a limitation.
About pins and crystals: in a given quarter, pins will either be above all crystals as a shape, or below all crystals and shapes. Since you can't get a pin between two crystals.
I haven't tried it out yet, but I was wondering if you could do more or less the same thing with crystals as with the other shapes. If you build all the layers in quarters instead of building a whole layer and stacking them, you can use the splitters to merge the shapes instead of using stackers. I'll be exploring that, before I try the more obvious route of building it as a separate mam
Edit: Nope, disregard. Original comment: Minor point about the logic at 4:00, you don't need the gate on the far left because if there's no signal then you don't need to cut it off with a gate, and if there's a zero signal then it won't conflict with the zero from the signal generator.
You do need that one. If you cut the signal, you will get a 0 signal as intended. But that would also feed into the NOT gate (and by extension into the receiver's output). If you then receive a signal again, you will get a conflict because of the 0 signal coming in from the gate and the shape signal from the receiver. Since the shape does not take precedence over the 0 signal, the NOT gate doesn't know what to do. :)
Think treating pins as a shape will be problematic with shapes where the pins are hanging in the air. Did get shapes where bottom layer was only half but then four pins on second layer and third layer was full. Stacking those will make the pins on second level fall down since they are not connected and would need the layer above them first to not fall down. Although that can be fixed by reversing the order so you start with highest layer and start assembling top down.
Hello, I greet you. It's amazing what you've built. Unfortunately I don't understand everything, my English isn't that good and you talk too fast for me. but I have a question. What kind of shapes have you put together in your folder? How do you know what you need?? and will you build the ultimate machine that can build everything by itself?? LG from Germany :)
I'd love to know what the throughput and startup time for your MAM is. I thiiiink the throughput is 12 belts? Startup time (time from switching target to first piece output) looks like its maybe high? I assume you only get one of those things, and I'd definitely rather have throughput than startup for late game, but I'm curious.
I feel that if producing pins like this isn't patched out in the next update it's an intended feature. But I think they're gonna update the game to destroy a pin if the layer above is destroyed. Or maybe this really is intended
The help resource currently states that if you were to push pins until the top layers fall off, you are left with pins on top, which shows that the devs know and intend for pins to be able to exist without anything on top
![Hardest Challenge: Adding CRYSTALS To MAKE ANYTHING MACHINE [MAM] | 05 | Shapez 2 | Tutorial/Guide](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/42gEmN-pDfg/mqdefault.jpg)
![Hardest Challenge: Adding CRYSTALS To MAKE ANYTHING MACHINE [MAM] | 05 | Shapez 2 | Tutorial/Guide](/img/tr.png)
![วันเกิดเธอ (TO YOU) - PHUWIN [ OFFICIAL MV ]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/_ROx1Bj3T0Y/mqdefault.jpg)
The giant trains passing each other on the corkscrew is incredibly satisfying.
Dude, your method for getting pins is so genius!
I was struggling forever on how to implement pins in my MAM and this just blew it wide open.
Right, his idea is big brain!
There is a way to produce pins without using crystals. Basically the game will not allow you to have a shape with layers more than permitted (4 layers on hard, 5 on insane). If you try to stack more layers, the top layers get removed until you have the permitted number of layers.
So for hard, all you need to do is get a full shape with pins under it, stack it on top of a 3-layer half shape, which will destroy the full shape, and the pins under the hanging half will fall down. So you end up with half pins and half 4-layer that you can destroy. From there you can double the build, merge the 2 pin halfs, et voila!
This is especially useful when you have not unlocked crystals yet, or when you don't want to deal with the input of color for crystals. All you need is any full shape and any half shape (which can just be cut form the same full shape).
Can't you ignore pins when selecting and painting quarters then push pins underneath those quarters if needed?
Another way to create pin super easily:
- take any full shape
- pin until the shape disappear (4 or 5 times depending on difficulty)
- crystalize (the whole thing will become a crystal)
- pin once more: the whole crystal gets destroyed (because the top layer is thrown out by the pinner), and you are left with a single layer of pins
That usually takes less space as you dont have to divide and recombine, as well as crystalize twice
Here are two optimizations I believe will work, in order of how much I believe they work (just saves a bit on cost and variance)
- You don't need to quite pop the original shape off the top before crystalizing, as the final pinning will take care of that. That saves you one time of needing to pin, but not really any more.
- You don't even need a full shape, since crystalization will fill in any gaps. That saves you looking around for a full shape, allowing you to use any convenient miner spot rather than looking for a full shape (or split into quarters before getting full-pins for each quarter. Go insane if you want. At that point, it's colors that'll be your bottleneck)
@@minamagdy4126 you are completely right. We a shape with a missing quarter, you can remove one of the pinning process, so in normal:
- pin 3 times
- crystalize
- pin
@tomdeboerio3639 I just noticed that my modified scheme actually won't work for a full shape, since the idea behind yours relies on there being crystal in the top layer. In that case, either split/laser it in half first or do the extra pinning.
if you want to convert null to 0 ju can just use 2 not gates. first null->1 than 1->0.
2 not gates also converts any non-null/0 signal into a 1. Which is not what we want at filters
@@arjanb7158 Sibo for this idea, I built different logical structures when checking for zero, but didn’t think of 2 not gates))
null -> 1 -> 0
0 -> 1 -> 0
1 -> 0 -> 1
Why would it convert 0 to 1?
@@neyirerdeser3913 the problem is color-r -> 0 -> 1 when you want to keep color-r. Which is typically the case for filters. So I meant non-(null or 0) ;)
That. Was. Genius. Dude, you made that look so freaking easy. Amazing design job, Nilaus!
This is great and absolutely not cheating. I'm certain it's an intended mechanic. I actually had the exact same idea to do pins for my MAM which I have been building alongside your series although I'm trying for fun to design all my own blueprints and am a bit behind you now.
Factorio greed doesn't allow me to look at your pin build without saying that you could of reused the shape instead of throwing it out.
On 19:37 you added liquid wagons, but later in the video you have pins comming into MAM without problem. Did you fix it behind the scenes? Or you can put pins into a liquid wagon?
Shh, I was hoping no one noticed that 😉
There is an easier way to get pins. A 1x1 platform that puts four layers of pins under any full shape, so you're just left with four layers of pins. Run that through a crystalizer and then add one level of pins afterwards. That will break all four layers of crystals and leave you with one layer of pins.
Clever solution! Very expensive paint-wise, of course, but at this point I guess resources are effectively infinite, as long as you take the time to mine them, so that's not really a limitation.
4:25 - dude is learning. I'm impressed. ... a bit.
Another awesome video, thanks!
Yay my favorite series :)
Same watching him creating a MaM is very fun to watch
@@itskason4 I feel too stupid to create one so I enjoy watching these :D
About pins and crystals: in a given quarter, pins will either be above all crystals as a shape, or below all crystals and shapes. Since you can't get a pin between two crystals.
I haven't tried it out yet, but I was wondering if you could do more or less the same thing with crystals as with the other shapes. If you build all the layers in quarters instead of building a whole layer and stacking them, you can use the splitters to merge the shapes instead of using stackers. I'll be exploring that, before I try the more obvious route of building it as a separate mam
How about converting null -> 0 in the layer separator logic (before passing them to each layer channel)?
Edit: Nope, disregard.
Original comment: Minor point about the logic at 4:00, you don't need the gate on the far left because if there's no signal then you don't need to cut it off with a gate, and if there's a zero signal then it won't conflict with the zero from the signal generator.
You do need that one. If you cut the signal, you will get a 0 signal as intended. But that would also feed into the NOT gate (and by extension into the receiver's output). If you then receive a signal again, you will get a conflict because of the 0 signal coming in from the gate and the shape signal from the receiver. Since the shape does not take precedence over the 0 signal, the NOT gate doesn't know what to do. :)
@@thomasdreilingYou're quite right!
Can you do a factory to product ur logo in purple and yellow crystal circle ?
Think treating pins as a shape will be problematic with shapes where the pins are hanging in the air. Did get shapes where bottom layer was only half but then four pins on second layer and third layer was full. Stacking those will make the pins on second level fall down since they are not connected and would need the layer above them first to not fall down.
Although that can be fixed by reversing the order so you start with highest layer and start assembling top down.
Hello, I greet you. It's amazing what you've built. Unfortunately I don't understand everything, my English isn't that good and you talk too fast for me. but I have a question. What kind of shapes have you put together in your folder? How do you know what you need?? and will you build the ultimate machine that can build everything by itself??
LG from Germany :)
i made a diode the same way 😅
I'd love to know what the throughput and startup time for your MAM is. I thiiiink the throughput is 12 belts? Startup time (time from switching target to first piece output) looks like its maybe high? I assume you only get one of those things, and I'd definitely rather have throughput than startup for late game, but I'm curious.
You could just make multiple copies. There's nothing stopping you besides the platform limit.
How long it takes to get full belt output?
Pins can appear at lvl 50+
I feel that if producing pins like this isn't patched out in the next update it's an intended feature.
But I think they're gonna update the game to destroy a pin if the layer above is destroyed. Or maybe this really is intended
The help resource currently states that if you were to push pins until the top layers fall off, you are left with pins on top, which shows that the devs know and intend for pins to be able to exist without anything on top
great hack lol! I wonder how would one make this MAM faster
Hello
삼등!!
Yes, this is cheating and inefficient!
But very effective