What If Poland Was Never Conquered? | Alternate History
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 20 พ.ค. 2022
- The Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth stood as perhaps the greatest height of the Polish state, and it was certainly nothing to scoff at, being one of the largest states in Europe at the time, however, this was far from its full potential. The PLC had, because of its decentralized policies, entered into a state of decline and exploitation both internally and externally by greedy magnates from within Poland, and by rivals on its border, such as Russia, Austria, and of course, Prussia. Ultimately the weight of these pressures collapsed upon Poland, and it was partitioned into extinction, but there was a final effort in the last decades of the Commonwealth to save and revitalize the state under a new constitution which would have transformed to the loosely united Commonwealth into a centralized unity kingdom with a hereditary monarch. In our world, that never came to pass, but this time...things are different. This is what if Poland was never conquered.
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Is the End of the Team Fortress 2 Bot Crisis Inevitable?
Lol
We can only pray at this point
That would be the most important geopolitical event ever ever
We know you're a Robot Monsieur Z!
Respect, but probly not
Monsieur Z: Shows us a strong, centralized, monarchist Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth destroying all of her enemies.
Me: Don't do that, don't give me hope!
Three seas brother
Me, a monarchist, 😭😭😭😭
@@andyreginald9272 I never Understood monarchism esse explain why you are one
@@hessen5498 thanks for asking. I am a monarchist because I am of the opinion that having a non-partisan head of state is integral to national unity. I am a constitutional monarchist, and believe that actual political power belongs in the hands of elected officials, and would prefer if my nation of the United States were to adopt a similar form of government to that of the United Kingdom.
@@andyreginald9272 when you say like the uk, do you mean that the monarch wouldn't have much of an influence on political issues but would be the figurehead of the nation and lead it in a few cases or would you have them be more like the prime minister and monarch combined?
As a polish man myself I can say that this is the most based timeline. (Totally not bias btw)
Tak, I'm definitely not polakiem but can confirm this completely
As a ukrainian man myself such a timeline would have been a literal utopia, I love how Poland was fully democratic before all of the world
as a frenchman i couldn't agree more
As an American with Polish descent I also agree with this
As a Russian I think this timeline isn't bad at all.
Sure Russia loses Polish and Lithuanian lands. But more importantly Germans and to some extent Austrians wouldn't be Russia's problems anymore))
In this timeline it is the Poles who'd be bothered with them most of the time😅
As an American of Polish heritage this is very interesting to me. My ancestors immigrated from the German portion of the partition. The whole reason I'm here in America is the partition. Your butterfly effect is fascinating. Thank you on a personal level
Yeah, Prussia/Austria/Russia were specially keeping Polish-speaking areas of their respective countries to be poorer on average. By that, they wanted to encourage Poles to migrate out of Polish area to others parts or to third country( usually America) in the place of Poles they replaced, come ethnic Russians&Germans.
As a fellow Polish-American, with my Polish father leaving in 1984, I can smile at this althist as a Polish fanboy
im here because of stupid communism.
@@ixaldok8379 Hello fellow Polish-Americans. Both of my maternal grandparents' families are Polish. Grandfather's family is from the Lublin region, which would have been Russian. They have no love for them. I mean, family stories brought back by my mom and papa when they went to visit the first time say that "At least the German troops left them some food as they went East. The Russians going West left to them absolutely nothing."
Grandma's family is from Krakow. They would have been Austrian. They apparently didn't care if the people spoke Polish. As long as they paid their taxes to the Habsburgs, they were left alone.
@@arutka2000 nice, my dad and his family is from Krakow, and luckily managed to escape the soviets to the states
In modern polish anthem there is even a line that say „Bonaparte gave us an example how we should win”
But why? If Poland conquered Moscow and ruled it for 2 years, not France? hmm? :) This word came rather from the fact that it really fits, Hussars gave us an example of how Bonaparte won us nothing...
@@talusn9405 Because the anthem was not written in times of great glory, when the Hussars saved the west from the Ottomans, not when we were near Moscow for 2 years. The anthem was written when Poland was fighting for its identity, independence, and in fact it was on its knees and looking for a foothold. They could refer to the glory of the hussars, this is missing in the anthem. But it was about hope for Polish successes and non-eligibility during the alliance with Napoleon who was successful and won battles. And the anthem was written in Italy where those legions were formed. There is a Song about Jan 3 Sobieski and there is about Hussars.
@@talusn9405because Napoleon know how to use his victories in peace negotiations, poles don't
@@pep-qew Most of your battles over 1000 throughout history and wins against Africans with sticks and stones 😂😂 but we Poles over 300 battles against Turks Russians Swedes don't forget that Poland is the most invaded country in history
@@pep-qew During World War II, Poland also caused more losses to the Germans, having 39 divisions, of which 65% were cavalry, and France, having 117, surrendered faster than Poland and caused less losses to the Germans, but you didn't help Poland, you got a quick punch from the Germans :)
For the next alternate history, I’d like to see the What if Dollfuss survives from assassination then allied with Italy to avoid Anschluss and declare a war on Germany with the allies.
And I’d like to see the scenario that what if Sino-Soviet conflict in 1969 cause the WW3, What if Britain annex US after the war of 1812 & What if USA use nuke during the Korean War?
So what if Britain won the war of 1812. I think someone has done that but it would be cool to see his take on it.
I don't see any realistic way that the US is annexed back into the British Empire after the War of 1812 outside of maybe a puppet regime being put in place. And that's assuming that the people don't rebel like in the original American revolution
Tbh I wouldn't mind seeing an alt history superpower korea
Maybe they conquer manchuria and cecede from qing hegemony
Then maybe look east to deal with the Japanese and consolidate power in the easter Pacific
I always feel a British North America would of been better for the First Nations/Native Americans and we probably wouldn't of expanded as fast into the interior, hogging the coast and water ways as we seemed so fond of!
I mean you can say what you want about the British Empire but the people are still there!! I mean Canada has Reserves as opposed to Reservations and always gets you wondering why the Tribes we're heading North in the 19th Century like Sitting Bull etc
What if ottomans won battle of Vienna and invaded Italy?
What if: The Republic of Novgorod defeated the Principality of Moscow, either remaining independent or uniting Russia under the Republic. This may be interesting to explore as a Russian alternative to Muscovite Authoritarianism.
You're mistaken thinking Novgorod was a liberal republic.
What if Novgorod's and Lithuania's wars against Moscow were a success?
@@user-mr9ob9xd7f He didn't mention the word "liberal".
Aristocratic republic is good enough.
Muscovite Authoritarianism…
“According to Kaganovich(__w), the victory of the Revolution cannot be anything else but absolute world domination and Khrushchev, also, promptly added that the Soviet Government is based today on ____sh leadership and that it was due to certain considerations only that ___ry was masked by a Gentile front..
It is a corollary of the Soviet system that in order to mislead the Western world, and especially the anti-Israel Arab nations, it needs to create occasionally a false appearance of “anti-Semitism”. “
“The greater apparent of official tolerance of religion in the Soviet Union is accompanied by a secret drive to increase Party and KGB penetration of the Catholic and other churches and to use agents therein for political and strategic purposes inside and outside the Soviet Union. As part of the programme to destroy religion from within, the KGB, in the late 1950s, started sending dedicated young Communists to ecclesiastical academies and seminaries to train them as future church leaders. These young Communists joined the Church, not at the call of their consciences to serve God, but at the call of the Communist Party in order to serve that Party and to implement its general line in the struggle against religion.” (pg. 116, The Perestroika Deception)
“For example, the alleged religious relaxation is a spectacle produced and managed by the KGB and the high priests of the church who are KGB agents assigned to fulfill the strategy…In the present phase, secret agents in the Catholic and other churches are being used to implement Communist strategy. When they achieve their Communist world victory, they will use mass withdrawal of their agents to disrupt and destroy the churches. Never in its history since Nero has Christianity faced such a threat of possible destruction. The dictum of the late Pope Pius XII about the incompatibility of Communism and religion is as correct as ever. The Vatican should reaffirm this dictum and should use its influence and its ‘divisions’ to defend Western values from the new Communist assault.”
@@mastersafari5349 Republic of Novgorod by polish vassal, Poland betrayed him
Franz Joseph symbolizes all Austrians all the time.
Dean Mosely
THAT is you real name, I KNOW IT
Btw I am big time fan of yours, looking forward to the APU summit and every upcoming "what if" videos, is there any chance you will touch on a WW1 in which a free market much more heavily populated Russian empire was attacked instead of Germany? Would be nice to put a point of divergence in a hypothetical land grab in the far east in the 1860s or 70s. (Manchuria and turkestan and mongolia at first and then korea or maybe even mainland japan)
This althistory seems worth continuing
I'll build upon this in other related videos, but not direct sequels.
@@MonsieurDean looking forward to that then
@@MonsieurDean you probably won't see this bud but how about a scenario where the Imperial Japanese Navy and The Kriegsmarine link up in the Indian ocean. This will probably be difficult and may not interest many but if you do then it'd be cool.
There's no rest for the Squicked.
Do one what if Crimea was never given to Ukraine?
@@diegoyanesholtz212 I second this
This video is conflicting for me, because thick Poland is Based, I really like Prussia. RIP Prussia
Why does your voice sound robbotic lol
why does it sound like a robot talking and not you mr. Z?
"Conquered" is a bit of overstatement, Poland is unconquerable - even without borders on map its heartbeat can not be denied and is heard across the whole Europe.
We were beaten a good couple of times, get over it.
We are concquered couple of times
@@Bulsky your mother maybe
He is right. Poland was conquered a couple of times and was either occupied or annexed by other countries.
Naprawdę jesteś takim tępym nacjonalistą i nic do ciebie nie dociera? 😑
An amazing and realistic scenario. It's basically a 'what if' Poland survived long enough to ally with Napoleonic France.
The alliance with France (and Turkey) came up before during the reign of King Sobieski. His wife, Marysienka, was in fact a French agent of influence, who ultimately failed. The plan was to get Poland into an anti-Habsburg alliance together with Turkey. But Sobieski regarded Turkey as the greatest enemy and would never do such a machiavellian volte-face, even if it would strengthen Poland long term.
But what if he did?
Well they would've survived long enough If only May constitution wasn't proclaimed.
Like it or not, Sobieski was completely right saving Vienna from the Ottomans.
@@nunocbnunocb5875 In moral Christian ways - yes. In geopolitical results - no.
Otoman defeat at Vienna effectively decapitated them. If they won, they could check mate both the Habsburgs and Russia. If Poland aligned more closely with France, it could facilitate rapprochement with Turkey and a new Balance of Powers favourable to PLC could commence.
@@thesilverthunder5965 at least from what I know, we could have just helped Turkey a bit and basically they offered a pretty good terms of split of conquered territory. Thing is a lot of times people here prefer moral high ground to political one. Btw. Poland is technically fourth time reborn as of ussr fall (although it is called the third republic ( and it is third if you count republics, but it got a 100 years of being split in medieval too so it's third republic and fourth Poland)
Poland after breaking away from communism 30 years ago built a modern service and industry based economy, constantly growing. Now they rebuild their old might of power and sooner or later they will become strong enough to be a key player in the world's economy solely based on skilled population. I watch their progress for last decade, you go to Poland and it feels like you go to Europe. Greetings from Australia!
Another, simpler possible point of divergence I can think of is Emperess Catherine suddenly dying in 1791, allowing the Constitution of the 3rd of May to take hold for longer, similarly how the death of Emperess Elizabeth in 1762 basically saved Prussia from a catastrophe.
Indeed. Can you see some other alt scenarios in that period regarding Poland?
@@thesilverthunder5965 It's kinda tricky. Alternative history is hard because there are some many variables that could go in different unpredictable ways if just one small thing changed.
BTW, I wonder would the events of the French Revolution and the War of the First Coalition played out differently if different things were happening in the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth? Because, for example, the Kościuszko Uprising provided quite a valuable diversion for France (Mike Duncan talks about it in the episode 3.40 "The Frozen Rivers" of his _Revolutions_ podcast).
@@Artur_M. What catastrophe, can you please explain
@@athishnirup1815 Being defeated in the Seven Tears' War. Look up 'The (Second) Miracle of the House of Brandenburg'. Basically, the Russian Empress died and her successor - Peter III completely reversed the policy toward Prussia.
@@Artur_M. Actually yeah I know about that I remember it, the Russians made significant progress and almost defeated prussians but empress empress Elizabeth died and her son was more sympathetic towards prussians and withdrawed from the war.
Finally some alternate history scenarios.
Really well made video and I'm really happy how in-depth you researched this topic!
Thanks, pal!
A rare topic. Loved it !
That Idea of Russia and Prussia being friends and that continuation would be badass
It almost happened IRL, but Bismarck betrayed Russia at 1878 Congress supporting Austrian aims only.
That's basically what happened. Only reason why Prussia was "friends" with Russia was because they had a common enemy, the PLC.
The Bismarck dance would inevetebly have to end with choosing either Austira or Russia. Wilhelm chose Austria, we know how it ended. If Prussia would chose Russia the end result would be the same i.e. WWI because once Austria would be split between Prussia and Russia, Prussia would be in the center in between France and Russia. That means that Prussia would become "new Poland" and France, UK and Russia would make an anti-Prussia alliance PLUS inside of Prussia there would be an anti-Prussian movement caused by angry Austrians.
Basically no matter what would you do, Prussia had to lose because no mater what configuration, Prussia always finds itself in the same position as Poland. Surrounded Prussia has never access to resources outside of it and therefore it will always lose war.
You should do a what if Japan kept Korea,Taiwan and Manchukuo and became a UK style state.
Very Insightful videos Monsieur Z which I have been a long time subscriber of your channel and I love watching every new video that comes out. Keep up the good work Mr.Z with your insight
Will do, pal!
@@MonsieurDean I have many alternate history ideas that I would love to collaborate with you to exchange ideas which would make you some good material for future videos
This is beautiful. I've been looking at this for 5 hours now
Excellent discussion. It's always good when you're talking about historical things you know about and not about your politics.
I would really like your take on what would have happened if Napoleon never invaded Russia in 1812. Him having access to all those veteran troops in the subsequent 5-10 years would have been a massive advantage.
I've been wondering exactly this a lot recently!
Your going threw a Poland Phase. And I love it bro please more.
Maybe even a remake on the Northern War
We need a second part of this video
3:34 the person holding the constitution in the painting isn't the king. That's Parliament leader (marshal of the parliament?) Stanisław Małachowski.
There is a alternate history manga called Guns and Stamp. In that timeline, Polish is superpower while Russia is Duchy.
loved the vid
Monsieur Z, I love your videos.
But I have to ask, have you been using a bot to voiceover some of your videos recently? Some of your sentences seem rather interestingly toned, so that it wounds as if they are edited heavily (with cuts so that the tone doesn't make sense anymore) or that a bot strings the words together.
Finally, i knew i couldn't be the only one thinking about it. I knew someone else must have noticed.
I can recognize a bot talking, and i'm surprised to see the use of a bot voice here.
Mr.Z has been taken over by aliens for exposing other timelines
@@eduardowalsh9418 but some of his videos don’t sound like that, which is interesting. Maybe he wrote the scripts but ran out of time to do the voiceovers so he could make schedule.
241 views and five minutes ago this video started
241 years ago poland existed
5 years ago poland also existed
but within five years after 241 years ago poland started to get a bit smaller before not existing
Was the voiceover for this video computer generated?? Idk but it just sounds weird and different than usual lol
I will say it is a definite maybe.
@@MonsieurDean automating video's hey, interesting
Yes I hear the same thing lol
I heard that too
I noticed the same thing.
As sombody who is ethnicity French and Spiritually Polish, I freaking love this timeline
Now all of Europe is ethnically French and spiritually Polish.
Ethnicly French and spiritually Polish?
*Vive le Roi! Vive Vendée!*
Niech żyje król! Niech żyje Wandea!
@@MonsieurDean what if russia captured Constantinople
@@nathanmchiyengi7883 Then all their sins are forgiven.
@@MonsieurDean Catherine the great was a great ruler and at that time she had the best generals and that didn't depend on numbers and strategy so if a war broke out russia would win. Russia is very patriotic even if it has few numbers eg when Napoleon invaded country russia was also fighting Persia but it still won now imagine the Ottomans
Nice!
Best vidoes on the channel so far. Fascinating topic.
Hypothetical scenario: Imagine Polish-German Commonwealth where both sides are equal. Strongest possible state in middle of Europe.
Prussia, Russia, & Austria enter the chat
Poland was banned
@@Telco12 good
@@Telco12 Poland has been unbanned by Lithuania
@@The_good_guy_rabbit Lithuania gets annexed by Russia
Finally a good video on TH-cam.. haha
Very good
2:48 I didnt know Franz Joseph was a time traveler lol
Very fun scenario. I do think that in the long run however, Austria makes a lot of sense as a Polish ally, particularly compared to Russia. Both were multiethnic states unified by shared Catholicism, and while Austria did seize Galicia IRL, it was largely dragged into fighting the Poles by the knowledge that Prussia and Russia were already moving on the region whether they agreed to it or not. As a more southern power Austria simply didn't have the level of conflicting territorial interests that Prussia and Russia did with Poland, and would likely consider a strong Catholic neighbor to be preferable to fighting Russia and Prussia on their own. That would have huge effects on the Ottomans, and the potential survival of the Holy Roman Empire would utterly reshape Germany, possibly leading to a looser union under Austria which gives concessions to Poland to secure their backing. An interesting Europe indeed.
Austria was actually only invading Poland very loosely using term invade. They basically took part of country so that others wouldn't and then if not for bad timing of few events we could be part of Austria-Hungary empire as third party (basically at that point Polish nobles really diluted their wealth so noone in that part had a lot of money, and just about the time that we could being the move to be recognised as Hungary did, we had major commoner uprising which showed region in really bad light.
Hope you get better soon man
You can hear Monsieur Z yawn at 5:07
Idea for the 4th June:
What if the Treaty of Trianon was less severe for Hungary?
Hungary would be a bit bigger.
Hungary would still have phantom pain over broken empire, as pretty much any former empire does.
I only wonder how would Poles in this timeline react to the Vendee uprisings.
Please, do a "What If Russia restored Byzantine Empire"!
What if they had taken Constantinople in 1878?
Or what if ogedai hadn't died so early from alcoholism
I feel like the likely point the timeline could have diverged to end better for Poland would have been The Deluge, with Poland and Russia doing better early on, and Poland having modified its minority protection clause at its inception that let singular people bureaucratically lock the government by requiring a minimum number of votes of objection so foreign influence couldn't have so easily wormed in and the balance between Poland and Russia would have remained on equal footing.
.
Not sure your alternative timeline's Poland would have chosen France over Great Britain, likely realizing its in their best interest to have Western Europe be focused on France and all the while making it so whatever France becomes it would end up a belligerent that if Prussia or Austria tried to invade Poland they'd be met with a French war of opportunity.
I think someone already did that is the issue
I don't think so, they would need an ally to reduce the infulance of prussia and Austria and they would definitely need France, prussia wouldn't exist in this universe if Poland existed after Napoléon and Poland crave it up and in the revolutions of 1848 france and Poland would intervene and dissolve Austrian empire into a small kingdom in German confederation establishing Republics and kingdoms.
@@athishnirup1815 Problem is your replacing Prussia for France who dominates Western Europe, thus you'd be right back to sandwiched. Meanwhile by playing the European checks and balances game you've left the west divided between Prussia, Austria, and France. Let alone as a variant of constitutional monarchy they'd be more aligned with Great Britain and wouldn't have a revolutionary sentiment in a timeline where they weren't picked apart by their neighbors.
@@anvos658 I think should consider one thing after dissolution of polish Lithuanian commonwealth, many leaders, nobles and polish generals didn't go to great Britain for asking help but revolutionary france and later Napoléonic france, the current king at that time was more sympathetic to French even before the revolution and don't forget even French empire was basically like a constitutional monarchy but if you dig depper it's with having more power than the puppet Republic he established, with even the French empire song having called republic all the time even though Republicans didn't hold that much power. The argument I am trying to make is that polish king knew that even one day or another either the prussians, Austrians and Russians would want their land, they would be part of the alliance in the beginning but after prussians losing battle against French in 1807, with Napoléon granting them more land they would be in alliance with Napoléon and would get more land after French defeating Austrians in 1809, with polish getting more land why would they be in an alliance with great Britain. Maybe even Napoléon would have married an polish princess strengthening their alliance.
@@anvos658 also keep in mind that he already witnessed first partition of Poland so he would be more hostile towards Austrians, prussians and Russians. Maybe being in alliance with them in the Start he would still be view them caution.
Idk what it is, but I feel like this voice is actually an AI mimicking Mr Z, than Mr Z himself.
Did you use TTS for this one?
What’s up with you and Poland recently?? Not complaining, love your videos
Very interesting scenario to think about.
What monster you created . I like it
If Poland-Lithuania had never been conquered, then federalization and autonomy definitely would have to be granted.
We'd probably see Lithuania emulate Hungary in this situation with the Ruthenian and Lithuanian populous uprising and forcing Poland to concede power, thus leading to a federal state
Three Nations Federation would be awesome
The thing is the Lithuanians of the Commonwealth were culturally Polish.
Today's Lithuanians were called Samogitians back then.
I myself am Lithuanian Szlachcic.
@@jamahariya Go out of your licvinist bubble, you are suffocating in your own fart.
Did anyone think that the voiceover work kind of sounded like text-to-speech? A lot of words are pronounced as if they were ran through TTS.
I definitely noticed it--you're not alone in that.
I noticed as well. And some people in the comments do point that out.
just me or does the narration sound like a really good text to speech?
I wonder if there would be a dynastic marriage between Napoleon's and Stanislav's descendants down the line, further drawing the countries together.
Stanislav's line wasn't suppose the inherit the throne, Saxon was
This video makes my heart throb. If only, if only. Maybe some day.......soon perhaps?
Idea: what if Bulgaria was never conquered by Byzantium
@Monsieur Z I have a question. Have you had a technical problem with your mic as your voice doesn’t sound as it normally does. It is very subtle but I was just wondering. And Great Work as Normal!
This is an audio program I used to mimic my voice since I was away, and didn't have my mic at the time.
Oh, that makes sense. Hope you had fun and Thanks for responding.
You post this then kings and generals does the great northern war a day later nice
Poland was split mostly because of Russia and Prussia, Austria was taking parts of Poland to avoid giving all to the other two powers, it would make more sense and the Timeline would diverge a lot less from our timeline if Poland allied itself with Austria instead of the Ottoman Empire.
Is the audio text to speech?
Lot of Poland posting lately and I’m here for it
Best timeline’s ever
I have this slight feeling that a polish occupation of Russia during the napoleonic wars might go the same way as the last time that Poland occupied Moscow, which was during the Time of Troubles
well bullies came when Poland was in time of troubles too.
4:32 lidzbark lets go! So small yet shows up on the map!
It’s in the blue and also it’s my birth town
I really like the flag in the numbnail btw. Where can I find on the Internet?
Bro did u use a robot with your voice to do this video cuz it’s sounds like it
This might sound weird but was this video voiced by an Ai? I've been comparing his voice with other videos and it sounds odd.......... like nile green instead of nile red
Have you changed how you edit, your voice sounds more... Robotic to older videos?
A more likely imo point of divergence would be if the previous Empress of Russia didn't die so suddenly, which would allow for a complete destruction of Prussia as a major power, which would mean that Prussia wouldn't have any leverage to convince Russia to begin the partitions.
One of the reason poland and later PLC had so many nobles was due to very long period of time (roughly to the half of the non jagiellonian elective monarchy) it was relatively easy to get status of the nobleman as you had to do something great for the region (there are stories about people who saved high state officials and that official would try their best to get them title of nobleman and succeeded) or entire country. But over time it became harder and harder while forgery of noble status became easier. Unfortunately there also where no way to loose nobility aside from obvious traitorous actions. With lowest taxes in Europe (it was a case for centuries) freedom of religion and speech being encoded and given out by default to everyone with being polish remaining on your acceptance of culture, all plc needed to survive is couple of reforms that where also underway. I think that PLC to survive would need:
-acknowledge smaller nations within with their local customs and traditional social structure (prevents another khmielnitsly uprising).
- basically individualise nobilitation process and limit voting rights based on wealth of the noble (basically poor noblemen are easier to bribe)
-ease internal trade by introducing smaller coin subdivision remaining true to Copernicus Law of weaker coin (bc it’s hard to trade when 1 zloty is equal to couple hundred cows)
- free up the economical potential of cities and peasants by returning their freedom of movement.
-reverse roles of parliament and king (give back king rule over law making- he already could be sued in civil process if he fucks up. After all he is as his title says “first among equals”)
-strip too wealthy people from voting rights as they already have enough influence.
-get rid of individual veto right of single nobleman (Liberum veto)
-keep taxes low- and stop limiting opportunities to make money by limiting trade.
Actually, you would have to execute those too wealthy people. Or they would gather an army and throw you from throne...
@@fkjl4717 they where economic power houses. It would be a shame to get rid of them. They are not modern day oligarchs of Russia- they where in the position they where because they knew how to make money and not get screwed over. They could very easily be converted into something like manufacturing giants, by enough convincing. Wealth of many of them predated political problems of plc and many of them changed ways of getting their income. The main factor that destroyed plc was foreign influence in Sejm- after all partitions where approved by it.
Maybe if Poland hadn't been dragged into the northern war it would be different. Poland origanly was not a part of this war, but the Polish King at that time wanted to have better relations with russia, that war wrecked havoc on Poland lands. In my opinion refusing the call to war would have to benefits 1) the Poland wouldn't be affected by battles on its teritory 2)lower influens od russian throne on Polish king
The audio sounds weird, did you use an AI?
Whty do you guys always use the smaller version of PLC to show it and to wprk with it.
Super !
👍🙂✌️🇵🇱💪
Mr. Z still puts out alt history unlike whatifaltist and more content those channels that are simular to his well done sir
You are forgetting one thing; Napoleon was terrible at diplomacy. He always demanded his pound of flesh even when a lasting peace was far more valuable than twisting the knife in the wound. He would probably burn down warsaw, steal all the national treasures the Swedes didn't have, give Lithuania independence and address Poland as West Russia in all diplomatic correspondence. There was a reason that the rest of Europe was always ready for more (that is other than Britain always being off the coast to give them war funds and moral support).
For the sake of having the Russians within the Continental System, Napoleon was pretty friendly toward the Russians despite having harshly beaten them in the battle of Friedland. So why would he be hostile toward the Poles who want to _voluntarily_ join the Continental System?
@@aleksanderwielopolski8205 well, the continental system in itself was deeply unpopular as it was casually bankrupting European economies… I find it hard to believe anyone would voluntarily joins it
Bro why would he burn Warsaw, as a matter of fact which city did he burn, the russians burned their own city. I agree he wasn't the best at diplomacy but wouldn't do any of this, did he burn Warsaw in his retreat, No.
@@dannyleroi9368 Denmark joined, even though having economic difficulties they were determined to stay in the union and only left when they were inavded by coalition forces, don't forget Napoléon needed time to rebuild his naval fleet to challenge great Britain again, with the help of russia basically him bullying who had a more modern better than French would take theirs combined that with polish, Swedish, spainsh, danish and france itself.
Did you have a text to speech read the script this time or am I losing my mind?
Can you do a “what if the mongols didn’t reach Baghdad” or something like that please
What if Oceania was just Britain? In case you didn’t know, there is a theory about the book 1984, and that theory states the Oceania, wasn’t a multi-continental empire, but instead just the British Isles and the rest of the world is normal, I would like to see how the world look if that was true.
Sounds like a pretty nice timeline
Poland: 1st Constitution in Europe. This very fact is so rarely brought up . Thank You for emphasizing this very historic landmark .
This video sounds ai generated lol
The way he speaks sounds like a text to speech with occasional glitches lol
There's small mistake. 3rd May Constitution did not replace Polish-Lithuanian Union with a unitary Polish state. It tightened the union, but PLC still remained a federation consisting of the Kingdom of Poland and GD of Lithuania.
If Poland, or rather the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth, never lost its independence - it would be a blessing for the whole of Europe, and in fact the world. The Second World War would probably never have broken out, Poland would still be a bastion of freedom, religious and personal freedom, and a stabilizing power that would always be on the "right side of history".
Orrrrr, the PLC would become a bigger version of modern Poland. Aka, fucked up, racist, always does the ':o' face when they see anyone who looks foreign, makes itself out to always be a victim when it most of the time isn't, etc-
Why does he sound like a robot of his own voice in this video like the meme tts voices
You could have also gone further back and assumed a Polish Lithuanian victory over Sweden never having lost present day Estonia and Latvia and or won more of the conflicts against the Ottomans resulting in a much stronger Poland Lithuania so that they wouldn't have lost to Russia in the first place. They were even allies at one point vs Sweden so its possible that alliance could have been maintained and Russia could have expanded north through Finland and Sweden and or south into the Caucuses and Ottoman territory. Otherwise nice video.
Poland wasn't going to beat sweden even with althistory sorcery.
I dont think you get the point of alt history or "what if" scenarios... It is well within the possibility that Poland could have beaten Sweden especially early on. Starting with nut not limited to Sweden's king dying of illness or in battle, with many more possible examples.
what if germany stayed divided after the cold war
Edward 4th was A usurper.
Sad ending for Germany 🇩🇪
@@crusader2112 Sad ending for Germany was when the monarchy was abolished and forced to pay ridiculous amount of money.
@@savagedarksider5934 That too.
Can we get a second episode?
Without naval expansion and solid foothold on Black and Baltic seas, Poland was fraked up anyway. Last point to diverge alternate successful history, was coming to terms with Sweden in 1650 and hitting Russia or at least, avoiding Deluge and decisiviely quelling Cossack uprisings. In any case, WW II, decapitation of elites and 50 years of isolation from last era where progress was possible...
Why does his voice sound computer generated?
While I prefer what if stories about ancient empires, I like stories that talk about my country (France). Especially if it's about Napoleon.
Any chances for a what if story about Napoleon and if he was Italian? I would love to see if he will be able to unite Italia and go on a conquest spree or something.
Why does it sound like a text-to-speech bot is saying the script instead of Monsieur Z himself?
I dunno
Monsieur Z has not been replaced with a federal agent.
Cool
Interesting scenario but realistically the biggest change in history and most probable saving grace for Commonwealth was different policy regarding cossacks (preventing Chmielnicki rebellion in 1648), limiting power of magnates at the same time (serfdom should also be reformed as it was thinly valed slavery at this point). It is not unlikely that given much stronger state of the country it would defend itself against Russo-Sweden invasion known as "Deludge". For those unfamilliar it was a very bloody conflict, especially for civilian population, basically destroying economy of Commonwealth and living some regions like modern Belarus depopulated (polish language becomes administrative language there because more then half of the population is gone).
What if Philip of Macedon survived and what if Alexander went west
But Y thou?
How about a scenario where pipal states disappear far back in Italian history? It would be interesting since the papal state allways had a strong influence on the hole peninsula and made almost impossible it's unity untill it started losing power after the XVII century, and I see almost no scerios about Italy around, except fashist and Roman ones, thing that I think is kinda sad beucouse there are many interasting things and moments of Italian history especially between medival to the XVII century
I would say, even few years of Polish survival would be enough to Napoleon to relieve much of the danger by crushing Prussia and Austria. From there, either strong Polish ally would allow victory over Russia, or, alternatively, prevent the disastrous war completely as buffer between Napoleon and Russia. Prussia getting short stick could also mean much different future united Germany, more federal and liberal than Bismarck Blood and Iron unification.
What if Iturbide’s Mexican Empire survived?