This had me scratching my head for a while.
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ต.ค. 2024
- #vaillant #boiler #plumbing
In this video we are converting a back boiler system into a sealed combination boiler system using a Vaillant Eco Tec 825 Plus boiler.
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Had a similar problem on a gas supply to a fire. Another company replaced the fire and told the customer the gas supply to it needed replacing due to poor pressure and flow.
I traced the pipe in the basement and found a hidden pressure reducing valve in a random location.
Love your work mate! I’ve been in the trade for over 20 years and I still find things that surprise me!
Quite frankly, finding that in *only* three hours strikes me as a decent result. It's not exactly something easy to guess at! Nice video, thanks for this.
"Thank you very much...." Yep - get the same problem in my job. Called to shorten some doors over new carpets. What I didn't know was someone had shortened them before, taken out the core in the bottom and nailed it back in with 1" panel pins. Cost me £120 for a new planer, when it chewed up the block. Thanks, whoever you were...
Brilliant job done in 3 hours time....your work is really good and u explain very nicely by taking out your time.
Like the bit when you said go to the pub. And still do a nice job the next day. Respect to you mate. Keep up the great vids.
Thanks for a nice comment !
Really enjoying your channel. I’m no heating engineer but love all the problem solving.
great work guys , my dad an ex plumber said if you are going to work on the gas test it for leaks before you start .
We did test it before we started working on gas. It looks like we did not, as we were running new supply from the meter to the boiler and Peter tested it before making the last connection late in the day.
well what can i say , A lot of the time the simplest job can fuck up your day .But wasn't the customer lucky they hired Urban Plumbers well done lads .👍👍👍👍☘☘☘
Thanks mate
That’s how it goes sometimes, well done 👍
I feel your pain with the non return valve went to a job 6 plumbers before me couldn’t figure it out and fix issues I eventually found the culprit
Yeah, this one took a bit of heat scratching too
Drove past you on that Job, I work for Georgios’s boilers down the road. Nice work lads 😎👌
Yes, correct that was in SS9! How did you know?
Well done finding that valve.
Seen people put nrv on hot to stop a back feed on the mcw. Tank overflow running all the time or dripping. Always best to find the issue though, nice install by the way 🤜
Thanks mate
We had a care home that had 15 rooms with TMV's in each room fed from a gravity cylinder. And NRV on the cold and hot feeds. I told them to replace the cylinder but no. Kept going back to find the NRV that had shite in it and was pushing back on the overflow. Ballache
What a bag of Nightmares well done guys another great job 👍👍👍
Thanks mate!
I feel like sometimes when you make a plan it never works but when you just say screw it I’ll get done what I get done you’re done early😂
Thats called sods law
Another great video.
For the Vaillant control, do you ever use a Nest wired for Opentherm with Vaillant VR33 interface in the boiler ? I know Vaillant don’t hold the warrantee if you use their VR33 Opentherm interface in the U.K. , but perhaps on older existing installers beyond warrantee ?
Brilliant job. Must've been an night time repair for that non return valve
Come on pietr lets go to the pub , yes yes yes 😭😭😭 great video as always
lol
Doing what you do, while video recording and explaining, respect my friend. Just wondering, how much would you charge to install a straight forward swap from an old combi boiler to a new one. thanks mate
1 million dollars + VAT
@@Big_Old_Bondy bargain
You can connect these boilers via OpenTherm to for instance a Nest. You have to put a Vaillant VR33 module in first. Very easy.
That would invalidate the warranty though
@@UrbanPlumbers Probably. But it’s an official Vaillant part. And they provide support for it. At least in the Netherlands.
@@hagar2025 Vaillant UK are bastards, that's all
Nice job that, mate. Good work 👍
regardless of permissible drop on meter you have installed a new appliance so zero mbr permitted, love video's.
But they still had an existing appliance on the system (the cooker). Yet the pressure drop was on the pipework from their looking into it which would not be allowed.
Nice neat job! 👍
Thanks !
Logic always works for me, enjoy your process "KISS" keep it simple stupid Great delivery.
why do you solder sometimes an press fit others?, cost? fire risk? or trust>
What shampoo do you use?
Very nice, if frustrating job or should we say ‘with some additional challenges’. You would think if Vaillant were offering weather/load compensation they would make provision for it/them in the boiler control panel along with any necessary transformer on a ‘plug and play’ basis.
As someone else has already mentioned a thermal imager would be worth its weight in gold (or time) in these ‘no flow’ situations.
Not sure how it would help. If there is no flow through the entire pipework there is nothing you can see
@@UrbanPlumbers you would see where it went from hot to cold though?
You wouldn’t as there would be no flow for meters before non return valve
Ouch that NRV causing issues great job 👏
Yes, things like that can be tricky to find.
A quick question to a comment you made regarding the control of the Eco Tec. I am right in understanding the boiler will not modulate unless you have the vaillent controls? This sounds a bit crap to be honest if they are forcing you to buy this control system. I was considering buying one of these boilers with a slightly larger output than needed for a future house extension. But if this doesn't modulate with this additional gizmo it makes an expensive boiler in the first place even more expensive.
Why would you need oversized boiler? Most houses in UK are below 10kw and the smallest Vaillant boiler you can get is 15kW?
They do modulate but do not have wether or load compensation with non vaillant controls.
If you get Vaillant get eco tec plus or green IQ, cheaper models are nit so good.
Another great video love to watch
Great! Thanks
How much do you charge for moving boiler from a room to kitchen?
Great job 👏🏻. Keep it up 👍🏻
Thanks a lot!
Brilliant, thanks👍👍🏴🏴
The work looks excellent, nice and clean install great job!
Couple questions though. You used pro press (that's what we call it in canada) copper for the gas line. Is that legal where you're from? Also do you not have to clearly mark your gas lines, so that when some dummy comes along and cuts a pipe they're not cutting the gasline?
Press is fine on gas but you have to use gas specific fittings. There is no requirement to mark gas pipes on domestic installations in UK.
@@UrbanPlumbers thank you for responding :)
It makes sense for gas press fittings, that they need to be rated for it, but how do you tell the difference in the UK? Because in Canada If they dont have CSA or ULC approval it cant be used. And if they only have the ULC approval. There is alot of hoops to jump thought to get AHJ(authority having jurisdiction) to get it approved for a one time installation.
Do you have to pull a permit for residential (domestic) installations in the UK? And have an inspector come out and check to give approval of the installation?
I'm honestly just curious about other countries regulations an policies.
@@JuanWonOne nothing like that, gas press fit fittings have a special yellow rubber seal rated for gas, compared to the black rubber seal rated for water on water press fit fittings. They’re British Gas approved and can be used on gas installations, even in inaccessible areas, you don’t need a specific staff member of the gas safe register (which is the official gas registration body in the UK) to come out and approve the installation, it is all down to the engineers discretion.
Great video, why on earth someone would fix a leak with a DC valve really does make you wonder though.
I believe you are not allowed any drop on the gas pipework, only on the existing appliances?
Yes, that is correct
"and you have to use it for load compensation so connect it to the mains" Ummm thats cleared it up for me.
great video, how come your fitting Vaillant and not Intergas.?
I will not be able to service this installation so installing something the client can get serviced easily.
is that who polishes the pipes.
why would you fit one of them? glowworn
I'm not a plumber but when using crimp fittings i thought you always had to leave a gap between fitting ? like 50mm ? 2:22
Never heard of that. Probably not true
I expect the non return valve reduced the flow from the vented tank too!
Brillaint content Just discovered
welcome!
System boiler + unvented is my first choice, unless site layout forces otherwise.
Hate combi's.
Depends on the hot water usage too, you wouldn’t put that installation in for someone who has 1 bathroom and a kitchen sink. Combi’s are perfect for small houses
I had this on central heating pipework
The non return valve u wonder if that was fitted to prevent reverse circulation. Only reason I can think of. Is possible with gravity fed systems.
No, as it was on hot water. They used it to fix a leak as the body is long enough to use 1 fitting to fix a leak
Air break on condensate inside the property not allowed
Oh mate that’s the worst ! Non return under the floor had this happen a couple of times in the past fxxking nightmare
You guys use copper for gas pipe over there?
Yes copper for gas soldered or crimped
Non-Return Valve? Is that a Check Valve? USA Here. Nice Install.
Yep, check valve
are you power flushing through the new Boiler, Why?
because it is how it's done properly. You flush only clean water through the boiler and dump dirty water on the other side, so that inital flush never goes through the boiler. Once the water runs clean then you add chemicals.
Then you add chemicals and fire the boiler so you flush hot at around 50C, this way you get a way more efficeinct flush, as chemicals work much better at high temperaturesa and do not pose any trouble to the boiler, as all system dirt is in suspension.
The biggest issue with dirty system you get is plate exxhanger blocking. You will not get taht issue here, as system water never goes through the plate when flushing. Even if it did, it would not block during the flush.
Condensate not connected in correctly to waste, should be after trap to prevent poc entering room if trap runs dry.
You are correct. I made a mistake! I will go and correct it.
@@UrbanPlumbers Everything else spot on. Well done.
It’s good to point those mistakes out so we all learn - thanks!
not a good day -but you both did well ;;
That wasn’t too bad actually
Are you getting enough gas to boiler looks like pipe only 15mm
that 15mm is gas going to the kitchen to the hob. 22mm all the way to the boiler.
Do people in the UK not care about exposed piping in living spaces? It seems like you have a lot of that in your installs. (Like on the base boards) I'm not sure about the rest of America but in Texas people do not like that. Would like to know your take on it.
come on, copper is great to look at. But seriously, no, people want them hidden away. That room was just a utility room, so not a buig deal
You look like the professional snooker player Ronnie O’Sullivann.
haha - heard that before - 😄
3.10 long day. you pro. time for a a reapir?
RE drop on existing gas pipe: You're not allowed ANY drop on pipe work once you've been playing with it.
Apologies for the above info, I'm sure you know, but for those that may not.
My first vid of yours and it wont be the last......great stuff.
Thanks
Chris.
Yes you are correct. Permissible drop is with appliances connected
Which Vaillant combo is equivalent to the WB 8000 35Kw? And which would you recommend for durability?
Eco Tec plus with Senso Comfort controls is sooooo much better than any Worcester ever made.
@@UrbanPlumbers Thank you so much for your reply. You are very helpful :)
@@UrbanPlumbers I got an EcoTec Plus and so far, so good. Thanks :)
Or Ideal Vogue
I didn’t see a zone valve near the cylinder how did you link the flows ?
No valves it’s gravity
@@UrbanPlumbers I seen a few systems without zone valves recently and wondered how a system like that would be converted.
Sorry I actually can’t see which video you comment on! If my last one there are no ZV there!
@@UrbanPlumbers yes sorry mate your last one I was wondering how you did the conversion without the zone valves did you link the flow from the pump into the return in the cylinder cupboard ?
No, cylinder flow and return were gravity, so separate to CH flow and return.
how come you used pegler push fit fittings ?
I didn’t. It press fit.
@@UrbanPlumbers
ah yes thank you 👍 saw that on another of your videos
Very good installer 👍
You’d of hoped they would break the inside out the not return valve the twats
Yes, at least that
And that's why I'm considering getting a thermal imaging camera. Could have saved you guy 3 hrs.
@@craigknowles8141 That is a great tool and a great idea.👍
Oooooogh that was a nasty thing to leave on the hot water 🤘😎🤘
The reason some people use those non-return valves is because they are longer than a standard compression coupler, so they can fix a leak with one fitting.
@@UrbanPlumbers I know why they have done it Buddy been in the trade 43 years but it’s still a nasty thing to leave 😂😂😂😂😂 bet your patience was tested 🙏👍👍
@@SuperWayneyb yes, first I thought I must have made a mistake somewhere. You go through all your pipework and then think - no, this has to work! Vet vac on the hot tap, and you quickly realize you can only go one way - there is a non return somewhere - now, where the heck is it? 3 hours it took to find it.
@@UrbanPlumbers Well done for sticking with it and working through it logically great job 🤘😎🤘
@@UrbanPlumbers wet vac on the hot line. Gonna save that one! Brilliant thanks mate
why use spirotec's? they dont work..
That’s from vaillant - extends warranty by some 3 years
The check valve might have been placed there to stop parasitic reverse flow happening when the boiler was providing for DHW only. I had this once on a system and this seemed to be the only solution out. It's just unfortunate it was placed out of site as they anyway tend to fail after a number of years and would have required replacement. Well spotted though.
Nahh, it was a local plumber that came to fix a leak when the owner put a nail through the pipe.
@@UrbanPlumbers yep last fitting left in the van
One could say it was fitted by a non return plumber as he probably didn't want to come back.
@@nopy99 lol
Why does the control unit next to the combi need it's own adapter? Why is that not build into the combi? what is wrong with the manufacturer (Vaillant) . The combi needs mains anyway so what is the reason for not having an output in there to any control unit it seems to need. I also have a combi and the control unit (in my living room) is fed with the 24 volts (I guess) from the combi. No need for an adapter!
Bad design
peter is jedi knight right:p
and swap out the meter door.
They should have knocked the check valve out and then it's just a socket
wtf cooker fits sith lord for sure.
Ouch that's a nasty way to fix a leak.
Yes, absolute nightmare for someone later. Just imagine if someone fitted a hard wood floor over that landing!
Hope the customer paid for your extra time - I know as as customer I would happily pay because you do a proper job - quality costs!
You don’t charge for those kind of things.
Are we seeing more combination boilers fitted to larger houses instead of system boilers.
Poor show when filling a bath tub the whole house runs cold.
No different to PDHW set ups with cylinder. They also don’t do heating and hot water at the same time. Same with air source heat pumps - rarely it causes any issues, especially on weather comp
👍👍👍Szy
👍
8 mbar?
Yes. Pipework below 28mm, E6 meter and no smell of gas - 8mbar is allowed
@@UrbanPlumbers it's up to and including 28mm on an E6 meter.
I've just never worked on 1,
But your right 8mbar
I know it's an old video, but maybe you still read the comments. Why are you installing copper pipes everywhere? What are the advantages/disadvantages of copper piping vs ..the flexible tubing?
Oxygen diffusion through plastic, the barrier is not 100%, so causes corrosion from day one, loosing efficiency, performance and longevity. Plastic looks 💩 fittings are not robust, easily damaged pipe. It’s awkward to work with.
I don’t know of any disadvantages of copper🤷🏽♂️other than maybe it’s slightly messy harsh on the hands without gloves🤷🏽♂️
It was a double check valve not a non return valve!!!
Tidy job. You have to include in your quote for that kind of stuff.
Off course, it happens on some jobs. No additional charge for that.
4 mbar drop is not acceptable if it was on pipe-work, regardless of meter type!
That’s what I said - acceptable till we isolated the boiler
@@UrbanPlumbers 2:41 You said it was allowable. Because that meter allows 8mbar drop. But what you should have said it's on pipe-work and nothing is allowed. If you are giving advice. this would but misleading to those training. I know what you mean't though!
non return valve 😵💫
It's not like you're ruining the aesthetics of the kitchen by leaving the cooker sticking out...
Nahh it will be fine - 😂 can’t see it from my house
Gas looks undersized
It does, yet it’s not :)
You're gorgeous!
What possible reason to why would you put a non return valve on I know from the numb nuts plumbing academy they know better😂
Very odd.
Jesus what a brain ,put that non return valve under floor🧐😱🤡
We actually know who he was now - LOL
Wouldn’t wanna work for you pal. 1) I don’t like your hair pissing me right off. And 2) finishing beyond half 6 are you mad ?!
Don’t worry, I let labourers home at 4 and they don’t have to looks at me, as they mostly clean the van mate - you’ll be all right - 😂