Have a feeling this is the goodbye message for the arc browser. Whenever a company says they are building a diff product for a larger audience against a product for a small set of users that's free, one just needs to do the math.
Arc isn't going anywhere. The number of people using Arc every day has grown ~4x this year. It'd be silly for us not to continue making it more stable, secure and performant. Our team poured their hearts into Arc. We're just not going to keep cramming new features into it to try to make it something it's not meant to be. I've personally been burned by software that becomes a Frankenstein product. I know future actions will speak louder than words but this is about building a second browser for the people that Arc doesn't resonate with. There's a reason we called it The Browser Company (not Arc). We're inspired by Apple to have different product lines for different types of people and use cases.
@@joshmiller973 cmon bro. all we're asking for is ONE feature. whether it'd be a command+K menu inside Cmd+T or a cooler layout or a nicer theme, thats all we're looking for. I think privacy is pretty important. if you think ur not gonna be adding stuff can u just add a toggle for us to turn off telemetry? its frustrating that you still force us to have it cuz i don't feel safe using ur browser anymore. And yes, stability is a concern for me too. In the time u spent designing a product that will never see the light of day, you could have been integrating apple WebKit into the browser to improve speeds and protect us from Google craziness I just don't like that you were hyping us up with podcasts and tweets for it all to just lead us to this... What happened to linear support in Live Folders for example? Also, I wouldn't mind a shared with you google docs type of live folder too cuz thats p useful also, arc just keeps getting worse and worse. you removed an actually good feature: Arc Notes, which has solid markdown features and stuff. You could've worked on that to bring table support but instead u just removed it to focus on other things, like what? and the bug/feature report menu was perfect. why did u guys have to screw it up with some horrible site instead?
More like "Work on Arc will slow down dramatically as the team chases a concept that A) appeals to a larger monetizable audience, B) takes better advantage of AI which is all that investors care about right now, and C) is original enough that Google can't just copy it and ship the same thing 6 months later."
You guys made the promise of changing the whole browsing experience and now it feels like you're dropping that midway to focus on some other shiny stuff. Will stick with Arc as long as it good and keeps improving, but yeah will drop it if it doesn't.
@@codexyt1513 firefox and edge are playing catch-up. Arcs features are fantastic and other browsers will copy it. So yes, you will have a viable alternative if tomorrow Arc stops innovating.
just really want arc for windows to feel, stable, i should be able to go to any website and have the same trust itll work like i do in chrome, instead of still having to open chrome for some tasks
Yeah, and I'd love Arc to be as customisable and beautiful as it is on Apple devices... the Windows version looks bland and seriously unfinished, whereas the Apple version looks clean and polished, with loads of customisation and all
Hard not to agree. The fact that they are a small team working on a product so nebulous the founder struggles to actually give us any idea of what it is? Not a great start. But then add: - The silence & lack of updates leading to this announcement. - Knowing the prototype level product we're left with on Windows (compared to Mac) is all it's ever going to be now. - That they basically said "you guys are great, but you aren't enough". So whatever their next product is, sure isn't going to be aimed at our crowd. - That it feels like, best case, they'll be able to keep the corpse of Arc shambling along for a while. But given Win Arc is half-baked, maintenance mode isn't particularly exciting or reassuring. - Many won't want to further integrate a product into their workflow that is going to stagnate at best, or slowly decay into un-usability at worst. So at least I'm going to be saying goodbye to Arc. Assuming I'm not the only one feeling this way, a shrinking userbase would only work to hasten a decision to move manpower off Arc & on to their new baby. Sadly, there's just not much positive to take away from this, regardless of what was said in the vid above.
@@instantstupor - Updates don't always need to be feature drops. People complain about Windows being buggy (hardware issues, mostly), then complain when they do some stability updates? Ludicrous. - 'prototype level' man, get real, you know that's silly. there's also literally no reason to think it won't be updated further. - They didn't, you literally just made that up. - You can feel that way. Arc for Windows is perfectly fine and fully functional. Again, stability is not maintenance mode. - Again, pure speculation based on nothing. Again, quite honestly, your exit is irrelevant to the product's existence. Won't change anything.
@@d_ngltron Hey, it's cool that you're happy with the state of the product and its future. I'm not entirely sure why, even if we disagree, it feels like you're taking it personally. I wasn't crapping on anyone who is happy with what they have, I was expressing my own personal frustrations with how things currently stand. This ended up a wall of text. You may not end up reading it, but if you are interested in why I said what I said the way I said it, read on (though I don't blame you if you see the wall and bail lol). I won't disagree that updates don't *always* need to be feature drops, which should be of no surprise given I didn't say anything remotely to that effect. Windows has some stability issues, but I'm more concerned about missing functionality. I also never complained when they dropped stability updates, so not sure why that was brought up in your response. What Arc has so far is nice, but I became most interested in a lot of the features I quickly learned aren't on Windows. Thus, I was looking forward to the future, and I don't think it is unfair to say that - given there haven't been any major features added from the Mac version in a long time now - that at this point the odds are fairly low things will change now that Arc is not their primary focus. They specified that what we have now is not going anywhere - they didn't say anything about further feature development. I think the lack of specificity is more indicative of things staying the same - so stability updates yes, feature parity not so much. I don't think that's crazy, do you? Yes, prototype level was - I thought obviously - hyperbolic, to show my frustration more than anything. That's why I bracketed "compared to Mac". It is obviously good enough to use daily, as I have been, but it is pretty inarguable that Windows Arc is far from what the main product is providing to Mac users. So please replace my hyperbole with “functional product that isn’t feature complete” instead. I said “they BASICALLY said” that. In an attempt to not write a wall of text - like this here - I'm heavily paraphrasing. Here's my rational: He said things like they didn’t start the company to create the features that Arc is now known for. The same features that were in the Twitter poll he ran about what they should get rid of, to which the unanimous response was “none”. They’ve quadrupled their user numbers this year, & it isn’t enough. So they appreciate us, but we aren’t enough. Seems pretty straightforward. He then says they want to hit “a billion people”. Arc wasn’t going to get them there, to the point they clearly didn’t even think they could build upon it to do so. If Arc is too complex for the mainstream he desires - as he said - then I don’t see how this product (that he's not really sure is even a browser) will be much like the Arc with those features we love. So already less likely to be a product aimed at us; it has to be simpler. As he said, they are making the "Waymo" of the Internet. They aren’t making a more performant car, they are making a self-driving one. I don’t think true car enthusiasts (ie techies like us) would be excited if Lamborghini said they were abandoning core development on performance & aerodynamics to focus on a functional, fully automatic self-driving car for the whole family (ie the billion people they want to reach). It feels like we can extrapolate that whatever they are making next, it sounds - at least as he has pitched it - is not going to be for people like us. So sure, I could be wrong. I don't work there, so obviously anything I say - or you say, or anyone else says - is pure conjecture. But I don't think, given what information was given, that what I said is an unfair read on the situation. Feel free to disagree, but I don't think bluntly saying "I literally made it up" is all that fair an assessment. I wasn't specifically calling them out for "maintenance mode", just distilling a larger concept into what I felt was a fair comparison/label. So for our discussion, pretend I didn't say it. What I'm more concerned about is what they did and didn't bother saying. They did bother saying "stability and security". They didn't bother saying anything about missing features. I even emailed support a few weeks back asking about feature updates & they didn't respond. So, given the specifics of what they said and committed to, you pretty much have to like what you have now. Easier if you're on Mac, I gather. But if any are like me, and part of Arc's value was in knowing what was coming in the future, then that value is very much up in the air. And I should have thought that the last bulletpoint - hell, everything I said - was either personal interpretation or speculation. I said “assuming I’m not the only one who feels this way” in the sentence just after that last point. I’m not saying I’m a soothsayer that knows all, that everyone will do exactly as I do. In editing I accidentally removed “likely” from that bulletpoint, but it is still obviously speculation. I feel less than optimistic after this video, but I'm glad that you're happy with what you heard. To your last point: I never thought I was so special that my leaving Arc was in any way going to hurt this product. My decision to exit is as irrelevant as yours is to stick with it. We are both one user of a product of many. It's all speculation hinging on - as I said - if others felt the way I did. I think the likelihood is pretty high if you’re a Windows user, and the comments here aren’t doing much to dissuade me that core users of this product aren't feeling all that rosy about Arc's future. So my speculation was, in addition to the former points, if things snowballed to the point user growth slowed/stalled that things would only be worse for the long-term outlook of Arc. Perhaps more people will feel like you, things will be fine, & I was completely off base. Guess only time will tell.
People forget that this isn't some fantasy or charity. They needed to be able to justify revenue growth and monetization to investors. A niche audience isn't going to help with that
So key takeways : 1. Arc is mostly feature complete now and is probably going to be in maintenance mode for the long-term (Please make it open-source, if so). 2. The second product is a desktop version of their mobile apps. Where it has familiar characteristics to other browsers but a lot more AI features available like browse for me, search with AI etc.
@@____---__________--------_____ Yeah but that's surprisingly easy to hide before open sourcing it. Microsoft has a system where they build Visual Studio Code with Telemetry from the open sourced code and still keep said telemetry proprietary (and the official build is also proprietary). People have been able to release builds, like Chromium for Chrome, without it.
The problem with having a nerdy audience is that they can see through the “Silicon Valley/VC” lens and read into what’s going on… Wishing the best for Arc, but it seems like you’re hitting a wall and that VC push will inevitably dry up and there doesn’t seem a way to sustain TBC without it…
To be honest I don't understand why people (especially the nerdy audience) didn't see this coming. VCs don't look for a minor product to be used by a small amount of people barely scraping enough revenue (even if the users are happily using said product and the company generates a profit). They are always looking for a potential game changer, e.g. the next Google or next iPhone. Arc's business model *never* made sense to me. They slapped a closed source UI on top of the open source Chromium, and don't have a real revenue source. They wanted to sell to businesses and think they will be the next Figma but what exactly is the value proposition there? Figma was a new design tool but Arc browser is just… a browser with a different UI. Even if Arc is really that good this was going to happen eventually.
This was confusing. So basically arc will be around but go stagnant. Meanwhile you’ll make a new browser for the masses with some sort of subscription model?
@@dftfire My takeaway was: We don't know what to do, we're running out of funds, and our investors are upset. Arc isn't working and won't turn a profit, and so we're dropping it for a AI app.
@@ytr181I sense there’s some investor pressure for sure. Would be interesting to know what their path to profitability was forecasted as. This just seems like a very strange pivot
@@Romanus- How is it a strange pivot when so many companies are jumping into the AI hype? They all want to secure their spot early in case it becomes the next huge market shift.
@@wachyHoneyyou don’t want any improvements of the browser you use? Or do you work at Arc? If it’s the latter you guys need to fix your windows port. It’s going to be a huge error to pivot from what made you successful to some new product that is so vague you can’t even describe it. I’m sorry, I don’t understand the decision making here
Well, I guess some of us can move on if a software, that has been delivered to you for free, doesn’t get upgrade. I’m happy they created something better than Chrome. People evolve, so do companies.
Arc on Windows is a mess. Arc on Mac has had no significant updates for months. Why dont you focus on supporting your current product instead of trying to come up with new ideas and leaving the existing ones half done? It feels like a software dev with ADHD is running TBC, starting one project having never finished the last and in the end you just have a heap of unfinished projects.
@@onatics That's fine, but the company is not made up of one person. Ultimately you should focus on what works. Arc is a great product. They can work on the new AI thingy but also making sure Arc has feature parity (and a complete sync like every other browser that has one) would go a long way.
Because they are VC funded based on the assumption they will be able to beat google chrome in number of users. They don't think Arc will get there anymore.
If there's no money to be made from Arc and there's no plans to keep improving it, then perhaps open source it so the community can take it and build upon it? Or do what Sentry is doing with "Fair Source" licensing, only open sourcing a version after it has been used in production for some time, but isn't the latest.
My impression: Arc is not as successful as expected, and they are working on something new with AI, which will only work partially, because AI is not yet ready to replace a lot of things. Arc will be discontinued progressively.
Arc sucks, it doesn't work properly on windows, heck even the UI is inconsistent. It has no clear identity. And the experience is mediocre and unsecure...
I've never used arc (linux user here for the videography) but it has a fair number of users so there is obviously something people like about it. I am extremely doubtful that they can replicate this success in a new and separate product. A pre-profit startup attempting to launch another product generally doesn't end very well. Especially when they are trying to enter the extremely competitive market of 'improve productivity with AI'.
Add my 5 kopecks: I have a very strong feeling they overstrtched the closed beta program, effectively leading to hype falling out. I remember long trying to get my hands on .xapp before public release and, when I managed to, trying to bypass the login screen (unsuccessully, I only managed bypass the overlay itself via digging through random configs and hidden arguments, but the browser was refusing to launch, probably due to profile configs not set up). A few weeks later, I just moved away and forgot about it.
“We fell in love with language models.” Ah, that explains it. So they went from competing with Chrome and Edge and Firefox to competing with… every tech company? for a set of features that most people haven’t given any indication they’re in interested in.
The web is essentially the primary interface for almost any digital action we take, from ordering a pizza to buying concert tickets. Imagine if LLMs could understand what we want to do, navigate the right pages, and click through every step to complete tasks for us. That’s the vision! While I’m well aware of LLM limitations like hallucinations and reasoning issues, I actually think this is a practical use case for the technology. These limitations wouldn’t necessarily be major obstacles here.
I just scrolled through a couple hundred comments wondering if i’d come across one that was excited about this video. Hope you guys can listen to your users.
@@igorpetrovic6994 Zen browser, open source, actually being developed, active community with people making suggestions with a developer that actually is listening.
You know ... I understand from the standpoint of excited developers wanting to do this new thing. But a lot *of us users* have been working around bugs and dealing with missing features and memory leaks - especially on Windows, and being a cross-platform user makes them even harder to swallow - for a long time expecting that they'd be addressed in Arc 2.0. I'm so disappointed, man. Part of me is interested in The New Product. But a bigger part of me just feels jerked around.
Can't blame them. Unless they can come up with a way to make Arc profitable and charge for it. Let's be honest, most people won't pay for a browser. So the team is moving to something that can finally generate some profit
Yeah, one thing that has bugged me for months (no pun intended) is that file storage is broken. I work at a company that has uses this web feature to save people's projects to their computer. Have to use chrome now for that because it crashes the browser... This is a mac issue too.
I feel you bro, I’m on Mac but I feel like it’s getting slow - probably just bias due to this news. So I can’t imagine how it is on Windows. Yet at the same time I kept thinking “people want faster horses, not car”. I’d probably will drop Arc for Safari any time soon. But I am excited about their ‘new’ product. Let’s see, just hoping it has some free features.
thanks for at least letting us know in advance that the ride is coming to an end. Your browser has been a positive addition to my life (excluding all the AI stuff that will eventually boil the oceans dry). I can't think of any piece of software that has been this useful in a very long time. Hopefully other browsers adopt the good work you have done
@@patucao The amount of people promoting this new Zen Browser just makes me think it'll also end-up the same as Arc. How can we be sure this new browser will actually stick-around?
@@dftfire the truth is that we can't know for sure, that's life. As far as I know Zen is an open project based on Firefox, so pros and cons there. But I think that arc already created something important with the UX inovations that they gifted the world and that will stick around.
I use Arc on Mac/Windows and Search on iOS... I will often stop what I'm doing on my computer and pick up my phone just to ask Arc Search to browse something for me. Bring THAT to the desktop, please!
I think Browse for Me is the top feature arc can really capitalize on and maybe that's what this new product focuses on. I do wish that as a starting point that feature itself was in Arc.
Two thoughts: First - Arc struggling with their browser being both 'it's perfect' and 'it's too complex' is like watching a real life example of "Crossing The Chasm" where the early adopters want all the tech stuff but they can't get to mass adoption. Second, it was fascinating watching Josh actively avoid saying "AI" when that's what the second act is all about is kind of funny. Arc's next product is just more AI jammed into an area that I'm not convinced needs it.
I appreciate Josh talking in terms of problems/use cases instead of just vomiting out the 'AI' umbrella term. It's as pointless as saying "we will digitise the workplace to improve efficiency" or "we will leverage the cloud to revolutionise our business".
@@0xfeder Especially given people could just subscribe to an AI service, but also continue to use that service within their current-browser. No-one needs Arc specifically, right now, just for that. Looking-ahead to their future product: I hope it's either a website or app you can use on existing devices, and not its own-thing, like the Humane AI PIN or Rabbit R1, neither of which have done particularly well
Yeah, my B-School hat went on while watching this and I thought... this could be a compelling case study... and then I slapped myself in the face and just felt sad that Arc is now going to die... the CEO is already talking about it in the past tense. :(
Yep, I’m sorry to say that this sounds like the wrong direction to me. At least in terms of the browser company being a company that services my needs. They are of course more than welcome to go and build a completely different product for a completely different audience, but it effectively means that the arc browser that we have today It’s not gonna continue to evolve or improve.
And it'll be a bit-odd for them to still call themselves "The *BROWSER* Company of New York" if they're not in-fact going to be actively-maintaining any browser product!
Arc for windows is such a let down it feels like Arc hasn’t made anything good in well over a year. The original mac app was lighting in a bottle then poof
It's crazy how even when it launched publicly, I couldn't see what the main pull was for Arc -- people who prefer the side-panel UI to tabs-on-top, I guess? And yet literally _every_ tech website and content-creator for months-on-end kept saying how it was the best thing in like a decade and everyone must move to it. But they never seemed able to explain _why_ we should, other-than just "thing new" 🤷🏻♂
@@dftfire Little UX improvements can go a long way. I just need another browser that let me organize favorites in a vertical tab and i'm happy leaving Arc.
@@MolemanITA I assume you mean "organise TABS vertically", as having your bookmarks in a side-panel has been a thing in at least Edge, Firefox and Vivaldi for a while. You can pin it to keep it open. If you mean tabs vertically, Edge and Vivaldi can both do that, and Firefox if you add an extension
I swear this entire company revolves around acting like they know what they want whilst not knowing, so many of these poetic overedited videos about a vision your users most likely don't need.
This is how venture capital gets in the way of good tech products. You have a good browser with a loyal community, but because it won't reach a billion users, the company is moving onto a newer shinier toy.
We all understand what “stability updates” means. Abandoning Arc and the community that helped it grow through word of mouth is bad enough without expecting us to feel excited about it. Since you’ve made it clear that we aren’t an important enough market to keep supporting, I guess I’ll check out Zen or head back to Safari. I expect similar reactions from my coworkers using Arc when this video hits our Slack tomorrow. I feel bad for convincing some of them to use Arc in the first place.
@@SorenVictoria Seriously, all I'm hearing about is "Zen" in like every comment. Either it is just really good... OR it's just manufactured enthusiasm, as we saw for Arc. Can we be sure Zen won't also get retired in a year or two from now?
I had the exact same thought and I had just read the title. I've been pushing people to jump on Arc pretty heavily since it launched and I'll be seeing myself out, I have enough experience with tech mumbo jumbo to know that what this means is that they'll stretch barely maintaining Arc until they can pump out this project, then either completely drop Arc or open source it, depending on which pleases their investors the most and I do not feel like living this again with a browser I love.
it's on you for falling for this hype-backed browser with bells and whistles that don't make sense. browsers don't need more than the traditional ones provide
I have to stop recommending software to people, I always end up getting burned. I thought i was suggesting a product that would continue to improve but apparently not. The windows browser is genuinely unusable.
You really touched on an important point here… I hate that I recommended Arc so fervently to so many people. And I hate that I'm STILL doing it - because right now it STILL is the best browser out there for Mac by a country mile or two.
Sounds like a misstep. Like Windows and Android are both in their barebones beginnings. But now you are gonna move on to AI. AI is probably the least attractive thing on the web in my opinion, so im out.
I need you to update the Windows version with more features from macOS, then my friends will love it as I love arc. My friends are considering to change to arc, but they want more for windows. After all, it's the most used OS.
Why can't there be a basic and advanced setting for the browser? If those three things are too much for the average person, then cut them down for the application's default launch. But for the people who want all three core features and even more, have an advanced mode. Or better yet, just have it so you can toggle any feature and keep vertical tabs as the default. I mean I am sure this has been thought of, but why not go down a more modular route?
That's the exact thought I had watching the entire video, why not abstract/hide all the "advanced" features that are kind of clutter by default in a default "minimal" setting, and leave the people that want an "advanced" setting pick it during onboarding/from settings. It would make so much more sense.
As a software engineer years in the business, I have very mixed feelings about this. Going through the comments I'm not alone. I'm your huge fan guys, wish you all the best. Arc was (is?) really great experience for me.
It seems like they failed to monetise Arc hence they are building second product. It's nice that they are failing fast and failing forward. I just don't want more AI features in Arc nor I want them to discontinue Arc.
Focus on what you already have and then you can think of doing other things, every version of arc except for MacOS is very basic and without significant features, I want Arc for windows to be better, I want Arc for Android to be better
man oh man... I thought everyone on reddit was overreacting.... Then I finally watched this. great exercise on gaslighting everyone, including yourself and team. Focus on completing the browser you created, it ain't finished.
I don't care about this new chatgpt wrapper, please don't slow down development of Arc. Fix windows, expand on Android, keep innovating instead of Ai slop. Please.
I switched to Zen browser after Arc was taking way too much ram to run a couple tabs. I've found that Zen is way faster, lower footprint, has a cleaner design and and has more security features than Arc. Never even got a solid windows version, and now the company is leaving behind their flagship product to make something that is more easy to monetize with AI features.
Given that Zen is just Firefox with a re-skin and I'd guess some added extensions I'm not surprised it works well... it should work as-well-as Firefox on any OS you use it on! 🤔
@@all-hands Sure, because they choose to write the UI in Swift, which made porting it to other platforms beyond macOS harder. But I note that the Zen browser isn't currently available for iOS or Android, and I've also heard it can't play protected content, so things like Netflix and Spotify don't work on it?
Meh. So you're basically saying you want to build something you can monetize.... like a LLM so you can charge a subscription since you probably can't get away with doing it on a browser. Arc on Windows is basically a chrome skin at this point and you are already changing focus to something else.... that doesn't really make me trust your company will support your products in the long run.
@@Oxilorix People would only pay for Arc if it offered some feature that made it totally worthwhile. For me, I'm not convinced the side-panel UI or "Spaces" are that... "Easel" is a feature many websites already offer for free... and does anyone actually use "Boosts"? I mean, you're visiting the same websites, but you can change their colours and fonts. Cool, I guess? If all you need is the ability to visit websites, have tabs open, have bookmarks and a history-list and ability to download files, most browsers already have that well-covered. And what Arc was offering to me doesn't seem different-enough 🤷🏻♂
Love using Arc on my Macbook, but using it on windows is such a pain in the ass. Every time I use it on windows, it makes my monitors refresh rate to go all over the place. Why can't you all fix the problems you have before branching off to another product barely anyone will touch. Also, also waiting on a Linux version like every other browser has.
Honestly, I think this is a bad idea. This will make you lose current users in favor of new users. Don't get me wrong, I love Arc and I have been using it since Beta, but if your team can't manage to fix all performance issues and bugs, image what will happens when part of the team works on a new product. I really hope I am wrong
So the ark browser is dead or least just done where it is at and the shiny new AI is king. Investors love anything AI. We have all been here before. They cannot go after search, that is suicide. This is some sort of AI clippy thing.
Was excited to use Arc. Just installed last night. I guess I'm going back to Chrome before 24 hours. lol That final "Thank you for being a part of this journey" message says it all. Arc is not going anywhere. Will uninstall from mobile as well.
Why do you need to cater to people who are overwhelmed by vertical tabs, favorites and spaces? They already have all they need with chrome, safari, vivaldi, brave, edge, firefox and the endless other alternatives. Arc is finally a browser for pros why don't you happily grow this audience that no-one else is properly serving? If you try to become everybody's darling you will disappear, other companies with deeper pockets and their own operating systems are always going to outrun you there.
Arc for Mac has been buggy and missing a lot of features. Its still my main browser and I love its interface a lot. I get you guys need money, but I was so hyped for you guys and this is just sad.
It would be cool if one of these features (maybe a smaller one) was added a bit early so we can feel like we're getting a new 'update' and not just patch notes. But I understand these things take time.
I think it's very good that the Arc community is very critical in the comments. I also understand the Arc team's thinking and I think it's good that they want to meet both requirements. the new Arc product -- a super easy-to-use program for the most important digital tasks (browsing, messaging e.g. via email, time planning, notetaking etc.). the existing Arc -- And a program that HOPEFULLY has the same features as the simple one, just more functions through the UI with tabs, spaces, lots of shortcut options etc. But I also want to say that the Android app and especially the Windows app should still be the top priority!!
Why do you need a billion users? Why do all startup need to have infinite growth? That's not sustainable. What happened to building a product you love with the goal to make enough money to live a comfortable life? Do you have investors breathing down your neck asking for more growth, asking you to pivot? You sound like you are going from a product you have a clear vision for to something you don't even know what it is because you are not growing fast enough. I've been pretty happy with Zen Browser btw.
Wow this is the best browser imo. You guys killed it. Kudos to y’all folks. Please CEO kindly bring back the note feature > some of us are students and we really need it. That will be a game changer
I really enjoy my experience using Arc, but I feel like I've lived this story before being promised something I use isn't going away while the company shifts their focus to something else. This makes me think I need to start exploring moving to a browser like Firefox.
i don't want you guys to give up on arc. even if currently i m using it on windows, i really love it. it help me concentrate on one thing at the time. help me focus and navigate better. something browser like chrome or firefox can feel really overwhelming but arc make it easy. i really hope , you continue giving us the best
Honestly, I'm so sorry but this is really disappointing. Arc is, well... fine, as it is right now. But it's just fine. Not great, just fine. I do love all the neat little features it has, but it definitely could be much better. Especially on Windows, where Arc lacks a LOT of features, and has stability/optimization issues. I do definitely find what you showcased cool, but it just doesn't make sense this won't be in Arc 2.0. You know, you talked about making Arc simpler for others to enjoy. And you said you had to build a whole new product because the core fanbase didn't want features to be removed, which you would have needed to remove if you wanted to make it more friendly for beginners. I literally thought about this for roughly 5 seconds, and I have come up with an impressive, brilliant, genius, amazing, creative idea: - Make all of the new stuff you showed be part of Arc 2.0 - Also add a "Simple" mode to Arc. It could be enabled by default for new users, and you could put it in the set up, to choose whether or not they want simple or basic.
The strings of the VC puppet masters have done a 180 after not seeing a revenue generating trajectory. Classic move. An episode out of the show Silicon Valley some might say. I predict they will change their name from The Browser Company to something more buzzy in the valley.
WJW, the messaging of this video is exactly the opposite of the intended effect. Does this company not have ANY marketing or COMMS folks reviewing things prior to publication?!
I just uninstalled arc browser because of this video. It is a cool browser and i was trying it out, but it is not even stable in windows. And from what i understand from this video, it never will be.
I was tired of waiting for any significant update for Arc on Windows and already moved to Brave browser. So far i have zero plans to try Arc again unless important updates starting to roll out for Windows.
I gotta be honest, the first time I watched this, there was a sense of frustration, like everyone. But after the 12th time watching, this feels hopeful & exciting.... cant' wait to see what's next!
You should keep those features but allow users to disable them for the sake of simplicity. Or, when onboarding new users, there should be options that basically range from "I want this to be like my old browser" to "Completely change this sh*t up." This would give new, potentially less tech savvy, users a way to feel more comfortable starting out using Arc. There could be some way to ease them into newer, less familiar, features?
If there was an option though "make Arc look like Chrome", which turned the side-panel off, moved the tabs to the top, and by-default disabled Spaces, Easel and Boosts... why not just stick with Chrome? If you want basically nothing to be different, why use it to begin with? 🤷🏻♂
You have delivered me the best browser on the market. Something I was actually dreaming of for years. I have all the trust in the world in your skills and ideas. I can't wait to see what the next product is going to be!
28 วันที่ผ่านมา +14
Sounds to me like what you wanna do is turn Arc Search into your main product and Arc into like a Pro product.
I am excited for what you guys are cooking in the background but I hope you won't stop innovating Arc, listening to the community and bringing new features to Arc
Arc made me feel special; Like we were specially taken care of; Like Arc wanted to provide a special tool for those who were different thinkers. That’s what made me spread the word about Arc to my community, too. I liked its A.I. limitations - made me use my own brain. If people are looking for dominant A.I. integration, there are already (too) many tools out there. Arc stood out.
Almost no product will appeal to everyone. I guess your goal (as a vc backed company) is to make that rare product that does? To make the next google search? Good luck I guess! If that’s what you think is best for the world to do which it very well might be esp if you are an optimist But you can also build a sustainable business appealing to only a few millions of people instead of billions. Then there can be many different products that appeal to different groups of people. Which you might be realizing by letting arc be what it is and starting a new product. But I hope you don’t neglect arc too bad
Have a feeling this is the goodbye message for the arc browser. Whenever a company says they are building a diff product for a larger audience against a product for a small set of users that's free, one just needs to do the math.
Yep... I love arc on mac and IOS its really useful but on windows its just pointless.
@@onatics try Zen Browser
Arc isn't going anywhere. The number of people using Arc every day has grown ~4x this year. It'd be silly for us not to continue making it more stable, secure and performant. Our team poured their hearts into Arc. We're just not going to keep cramming new features into it to try to make it something it's not meant to be. I've personally been burned by software that becomes a Frankenstein product. I know future actions will speak louder than words but this is about building a second browser for the people that Arc doesn't resonate with. There's a reason we called it The Browser Company (not Arc). We're inspired by Apple to have different product lines for different types of people and use cases.
@@joshmiller973 cmon bro. all we're asking for is ONE feature. whether it'd be a command+K menu inside Cmd+T or a cooler layout or a nicer theme, thats all we're looking for.
I think privacy is pretty important. if you think ur not gonna be adding stuff can u just add a toggle for us to turn off telemetry? its frustrating that you still force us to have it cuz i don't feel safe using ur browser anymore.
And yes, stability is a concern for me too. In the time u spent designing a product that will never see the light of day, you could have been integrating apple WebKit into the browser to improve speeds and protect us from Google craziness
I just don't like that you were hyping us up with podcasts and tweets for it all to just lead us to this...
What happened to linear support in Live Folders for example? Also, I wouldn't mind a shared with you google docs type of live folder too cuz thats p useful
also, arc just keeps getting worse and worse. you removed an actually good feature: Arc Notes, which has solid markdown features and stuff. You could've worked on that to bring table support but instead u just removed it to focus on other things, like what? and the bug/feature report menu was perfect. why did u guys have to screw it up with some horrible site instead?
@@joshmiller973 sir you deleted my message?
Bro fix the windows app
Don't need to, use brave
just buy a mac lol
Just use Brave
Windows app sucks, and support is silent.
just use zen, it doesnt require an account, respects your privacy and can be made to look and operate identical to arc
We got Arc entering maintenance mode before GTA 6
The _world will end_ before GTA VI 💀
2:50 "The Arc you know and love is not going anywhere." Translation: What Arc is now is all Arc will ever be.
And that's perfectly okay
@@abhishekmore2750 Not on windows it's not
@@abhishekmore2750 I agree with that on Mac, but on Windows it's buggy as all heck :(
@@toml8273 They will improve it on windows ig
More like "Work on Arc will slow down dramatically as the team chases a concept that A) appeals to a larger monetizable audience, B) takes better advantage of AI which is all that investors care about right now, and C) is original enough that Google can't just copy it and ship the same thing 6 months later."
You guys made the promise of changing the whole browsing experience and now it feels like you're dropping that midway to focus on some other shiny stuff. Will stick with Arc as long as it good and keeps improving, but yeah will drop it if it doesn't.
is there a better alternative if it doesnt keep improving...?
@@codexyt1513zen browser!
@@codexyt1513 firefox and edge are playing catch-up. Arcs features are fantastic and other browsers will copy it. So yes, you will have a viable alternative if tomorrow Arc stops innovating.
@@codexyt1513 There can be potential if Zen out their alpha & beta stage
@@codexyt1513 not as polished but Zen and SigmaOS
just really want arc for windows to feel, stable, i should be able to go to any website and have the same trust itll work like i do in chrome, instead of still having to open chrome for some tasks
Same here
Lots and lots of simple bugs. Example: after a simple arc update, the arc icon disappears in taskbar
Chrome is still snappier in almost everywhere...
Yeah, and I'd love Arc to be as customisable and beautiful as it is on Apple devices... the Windows version looks bland and seriously unfinished, whereas the Apple version looks clean and polished, with loads of customisation and all
same, I just uninstalled ARC, maybe in the future I will reinstall it
"Arc is not going anywhere" emphasized 3 times in 6 mins: sounds like you're afraid too that it's going away.
probably to try to speak to people like you who read too much into a 6 minute video?
Hard not to agree. The fact that they are a small team working on a product so nebulous the founder struggles to actually give us any idea of what it is? Not a great start. But then add:
- The silence & lack of updates leading to this announcement.
- Knowing the prototype level product we're left with on Windows (compared to Mac) is all it's ever going to be now.
- That they basically said "you guys are great, but you aren't enough". So whatever their next product is, sure isn't going to be aimed at our crowd.
- That it feels like, best case, they'll be able to keep the corpse of Arc shambling along for a while. But given Win Arc is half-baked, maintenance mode isn't particularly exciting or reassuring.
- Many won't want to further integrate a product into their workflow that is going to stagnate at best, or slowly decay into un-usability at worst.
So at least I'm going to be saying goodbye to Arc. Assuming I'm not the only one feeling this way, a shrinking userbase would only work to hasten a decision to move manpower off Arc & on to their new baby. Sadly, there's just not much positive to take away from this, regardless of what was said in the vid above.
@@instantstupor
- Updates don't always need to be feature drops. People complain about Windows being buggy (hardware issues, mostly), then complain when they do some stability updates? Ludicrous.
- 'prototype level' man, get real, you know that's silly. there's also literally no reason to think it won't be updated further.
- They didn't, you literally just made that up.
- You can feel that way. Arc for Windows is perfectly fine and fully functional. Again, stability is not maintenance mode.
- Again, pure speculation based on nothing.
Again, quite honestly, your exit is irrelevant to the product's existence. Won't change anything.
@d_ngltron they burned 150m$ from inverstors
@@d_ngltron Hey, it's cool that you're happy with the state of the product and its future. I'm not entirely sure why, even if we disagree, it feels like you're taking it personally. I wasn't crapping on anyone who is happy with what they have, I was expressing my own personal frustrations with how things currently stand. This ended up a wall of text. You may not end up reading it, but if you are interested in why I said what I said the way I said it, read on (though I don't blame you if you see the wall and bail lol).
I won't disagree that updates don't *always* need to be feature drops, which should be of no surprise given I didn't say anything remotely to that effect. Windows has some stability issues, but I'm more concerned about missing functionality. I also never complained when they dropped stability updates, so not sure why that was brought up in your response. What Arc has so far is nice, but I became most interested in a lot of the features I quickly learned aren't on Windows. Thus, I was looking forward to the future, and I don't think it is unfair to say that - given there haven't been any major features added from the Mac version in a long time now - that at this point the odds are fairly low things will change now that Arc is not their primary focus. They specified that what we have now is not going anywhere - they didn't say anything about further feature development. I think the lack of specificity is more indicative of things staying the same - so stability updates yes, feature parity not so much. I don't think that's crazy, do you?
Yes, prototype level was - I thought obviously - hyperbolic, to show my frustration more than anything. That's why I bracketed "compared to Mac". It is obviously good enough to use daily, as I have been, but it is pretty inarguable that Windows Arc is far from what the main product is providing to Mac users. So please replace my hyperbole with “functional product that isn’t feature complete” instead.
I said “they BASICALLY said” that. In an attempt to not write a wall of text - like this here - I'm heavily paraphrasing. Here's my rational: He said things like they didn’t start the company to create the features that Arc is now known for. The same features that were in the Twitter poll he ran about what they should get rid of, to which the unanimous response was “none”. They’ve quadrupled their user numbers this year, & it isn’t enough. So they appreciate us, but we aren’t enough. Seems pretty straightforward. He then says they want to hit “a billion people”. Arc wasn’t going to get them there, to the point they clearly didn’t even think they could build upon it to do so. If Arc is too complex for the mainstream he desires - as he said - then I don’t see how this product (that he's not really sure is even a browser) will be much like the Arc with those features we love. So already less likely to be a product aimed at us; it has to be simpler.
As he said, they are making the "Waymo" of the Internet. They aren’t making a more performant car, they are making a self-driving one. I don’t think true car enthusiasts (ie techies like us) would be excited if Lamborghini said they were abandoning core development on performance & aerodynamics to focus on a functional, fully automatic self-driving car for the whole family (ie the billion people they want to reach). It feels like we can extrapolate that whatever they are making next, it sounds - at least as he has pitched it - is not going to be for people like us. So sure, I could be wrong. I don't work there, so obviously anything I say - or you say, or anyone else says - is pure conjecture. But I don't think, given what information was given, that what I said is an unfair read on the situation. Feel free to disagree, but I don't think bluntly saying "I literally made it up" is all that fair an assessment.
I wasn't specifically calling them out for "maintenance mode", just distilling a larger concept into what I felt was a fair comparison/label. So for our discussion, pretend I didn't say it. What I'm more concerned about is what they did and didn't bother saying. They did bother saying "stability and security". They didn't bother saying anything about missing features. I even emailed support a few weeks back asking about feature updates & they didn't respond. So, given the specifics of what they said and committed to, you pretty much have to like what you have now. Easier if you're on Mac, I gather. But if any are like me, and part of Arc's value was in knowing what was coming in the future, then that value is very much up in the air.
And I should have thought that the last bulletpoint - hell, everything I said - was either personal interpretation or speculation. I said “assuming I’m not the only one who feels this way” in the sentence just after that last point. I’m not saying I’m a soothsayer that knows all, that everyone will do exactly as I do. In editing I accidentally removed “likely” from that bulletpoint, but it is still obviously speculation. I feel less than optimistic after this video, but I'm glad that you're happy with what you heard.
To your last point: I never thought I was so special that my leaving Arc was in any way going to hurt this product. My decision to exit is as irrelevant as yours is to stick with it. We are both one user of a product of many. It's all speculation hinging on - as I said - if others felt the way I did. I think the likelihood is pretty high if you’re a Windows user, and the comments here aren’t doing much to dissuade me that core users of this product aren't feeling all that rosy about Arc's future. So my speculation was, in addition to the former points, if things snowballed to the point user growth slowed/stalled that things would only be worse for the long-term outlook of Arc.
Perhaps more people will feel like you, things will be fine, & I was completely off base. Guess only time will tell.
arc has become so successful because it was built for the enthusiast niche, not because it was built for "everyone"
Yeah, sadly catering for techies and devs and not the wider-public isn't bringing in the big-bucks, it would appear 🤷🏻♂️
@@dftfiredid they really think it would?
Hands down favorite browser, yes even on Windows.
@@dftfire Pretty much. They got investors to answer to and telling those people that the nerds love it ain't gonna cut it.
People forget that this isn't some fantasy or charity. They needed to be able to justify revenue growth and monetization to investors. A niche audience isn't going to help with that
@@dftfire they should focus Arc more on businesses, that would make more money than B2C.
So key takeways :
1. Arc is mostly feature complete now and is probably going to be in maintenance mode for the long-term (Please make it open-source, if so).
2. The second product is a desktop version of their mobile apps. Where it has familiar characteristics to other browsers but a lot more AI features available like browse for me, search with AI etc.
making it open-source would reveal all the shit they collect on user behavior & data
@@____---__________--------_____lol indeed
@@____---__________--------_____ Yeah but that's surprisingly easy to hide before open sourcing it. Microsoft has a system where they build Visual Studio Code with Telemetry from the open sourced code and still keep said telemetry proprietary (and the official build is also proprietary). People have been able to release builds, like Chromium for Chrome, without it.
feature complete *laughs in windows*
@@____---__________--------_____ they can just remove all the data collection code before open-sourcing. i guess that shouldn't be too difficult.
The problem with having a nerdy audience is that they can see through the “Silicon Valley/VC” lens and read into what’s going on…
Wishing the best for Arc, but it seems like you’re hitting a wall and that VC push will inevitably dry up and there doesn’t seem a way to sustain TBC without it…
there's also always the chance that your customers will be able to just build their own competitor, lol.
@@andrewhooper7603 lol
yup! unless someone with deep pockets buys them, they need to raise more capital with a more monetizable product
To be honest I don't understand why people (especially the nerdy audience) didn't see this coming. VCs don't look for a minor product to be used by a small amount of people barely scraping enough revenue (even if the users are happily using said product and the company generates a profit). They are always looking for a potential game changer, e.g. the next Google or next iPhone. Arc's business model *never* made sense to me. They slapped a closed source UI on top of the open source Chromium, and don't have a real revenue source. They wanted to sell to businesses and think they will be the next Figma but what exactly is the value proposition there? Figma was a new design tool but Arc browser is just… a browser with a different UI. Even if Arc is really that good this was going to happen eventually.
This is literally them saying "Our VC money got over so we now have to work on a new project to UP the numbers".
This was confusing. So basically arc will be around but go stagnant. Meanwhile you’ll make a new browser for the masses with some sort of subscription model?
My takeaway was: Arc will still exist, but we want to create our own LLM / AI Chat app 🤔
How exactly did you get those two super specific assumptions out of this video you found confusing?
@@dftfire My takeaway was: We don't know what to do, we're running out of funds, and our investors are upset. Arc isn't working and won't turn a profit, and so we're dropping it for a AI app.
@@ytr181I sense there’s some investor pressure for sure. Would be interesting to know what their path to profitability was forecasted as. This just seems like a very strange pivot
@@Romanus- How is it a strange pivot when so many companies are jumping into the AI hype? They all want to secure their spot early in case it becomes the next huge market shift.
Months of silence, with no real updates... only to reveal that there is no Arc 2.0, but a new AI project?
So? Life is good as it is
@@wachyHoneyyou don’t want any improvements of the browser you use? Or do you work at Arc? If it’s the latter you guys need to fix your windows port. It’s going to be a huge error to pivot from what made you successful to some new product that is so vague you can’t even describe it. I’m sorry, I don’t understand the decision making here
@wachyHoney yes, I love it when software never gets upgraded 🙄
Well, I guess some of us can move on if a software, that has been delivered to you for free, doesn’t get upgrade. I’m happy they created something better than Chrome. People evolve, so do companies.
@@Romanus- successful, as in popularity among nerds and geeks. unsuccessful, as in making money.
Comparing yourself to waymo isn't the pump you think it is.
I don’t love how you keep referring to Arc in the past tense…
Like I know he said it’s not going anywhere but does that mean it’s not going to be getting innovated on anymore??
@@DarthMeh117he said it will be stable and performant. At any point he didn't say it will be developed further
@@jakosss I know that’s what I don’t like. I want arc to keep developing further.
Arc on Windows is a mess.
Arc on Mac has had no significant updates for months.
Why dont you focus on supporting your current product instead of trying to come up with new ideas and leaving the existing ones half done? It feels like a software dev with ADHD is running TBC, starting one project having never finished the last and in the end you just have a heap of unfinished projects.
ikr
Well most people who make businesses have adhd.
wouldnt he surprised if josh is high adhd
@@onatics That's fine, but the company is not made up of one person. Ultimately you should focus on what works. Arc is a great product. They can work on the new AI thingy but also making sure Arc has feature parity (and a complete sync like every other browser that has one) would go a long way.
Because they are VC funded based on the assumption they will be able to beat google chrome in number of users. They don't think Arc will get there anymore.
If there's no money to be made from Arc and there's no plans to keep improving it, then perhaps open source it so the community can take it and build upon it?
Or do what Sentry is doing with "Fair Source" licensing, only open sourcing a version after it has been used in production for some time, but isn't the latest.
great idea
While I can dream of an OSS Arc, investors funded the company expecting ROI. I would imagine Arc‘s source is locked up for the foreseeable future.
My impression: Arc is not as successful as expected, and they are working on something new with AI, which will only work partially, because AI is not yet ready to replace a lot of things. Arc will be discontinued progressively.
Arc sucks, it doesn't work properly on windows, heck even the UI is inconsistent. It has no clear identity. And the experience is mediocre and unsecure...
Arc isn't revolutionary, it sucks. Safari is way better. There's no contest
@@lolous-studio It sucks (at least to me) on Mac too.
I've never used arc (linux user here for the videography) but it has a fair number of users so there is obviously something people like about it. I am extremely doubtful that they can replicate this success in a new and separate product. A pre-profit startup attempting to launch another product generally doesn't end very well. Especially when they are trying to enter the extremely competitive market of 'improve productivity with AI'.
Add my 5 kopecks:
I have a very strong feeling they overstrtched the closed beta program, effectively leading to hype falling out. I remember long trying to get my hands on .xapp before public release and, when I managed to, trying to bypass the login screen (unsuccessully, I only managed bypass the overlay itself via digging through random configs and hidden arguments, but the browser was refusing to launch, probably due to profile configs not set up).
A few weeks later, I just moved away and forgot about it.
Please just fix Arc for Windows 10/11 before focusing on a new product.
Use Zen
“We fell in love with language models.”
Ah, that explains it. So they went from competing with Chrome and Edge and Firefox to competing with… every tech company? for a set of features that most people haven’t given any indication they’re in interested in.
The web is essentially the primary interface for almost any digital action we take, from ordering a pizza to buying concert tickets. Imagine if LLMs could understand what we want to do, navigate the right pages, and click through every step to complete tasks for us. That’s the vision! While I’m well aware of LLM limitations like hallucinations and reasoning issues, I actually think this is a practical use case for the technology. These limitations wouldn’t necessarily be major obstacles here.
I just scrolled through a couple hundred comments wondering if i’d come across one that was excited about this video. Hope you guys can listen to your users.
I m scrolling in hope that someone has found an alternative to this shit browser (windows version)
@@igorpetrovic6994 Zen browser, open source, actually being developed, active community with people making suggestions with a developer that actually is listening.
@@igorpetrovic6994 zen browser
I think he made it clear that second product is for the other users who don't use Arc. You won't find them in this comment section.
You know ... I understand from the standpoint of excited developers wanting to do this new thing. But a lot *of us users* have been working around bugs and dealing with missing features and memory leaks - especially on Windows, and being a cross-platform user makes them even harder to swallow - for a long time expecting that they'd be addressed in Arc 2.0.
I'm so disappointed, man. Part of me is interested in The New Product. But a bigger part of me just feels jerked around.
Can't blame them. Unless they can come up with a way to make Arc profitable and charge for it. Let's be honest, most people won't pay for a browser. So the team is moving to something that can finally generate some profit
Yeah, one thing that has bugged me for months (no pun intended) is that file storage is broken. I work at a company that has uses this web feature to save people's projects to their computer. Have to use chrome now for that because it crashes the browser... This is a mac issue too.
I feel you bro, I’m on Mac but I feel like it’s getting slow - probably just bias due to this news. So I can’t imagine how it is on Windows.
Yet at the same time I kept thinking “people want faster horses, not car”.
I’d probably will drop Arc for Safari any time soon. But I am excited about their ‘new’ product. Let’s see, just hoping it has some free features.
Dude, We want more Updates for Windows, NOT a new app for our families, which don't even know how to use a phone yet
thanks for at least letting us know in advance that the ride is coming to an end. Your browser has been a positive addition to my life (excluding all the AI stuff that will eventually boil the oceans dry). I can't think of any piece of software that has been this useful in a very long time. Hopefully other browsers adopt the good work you have done
Keep an eye on Zen Browser
man, you're a child.
@@patucao The amount of people promoting this new Zen Browser just makes me think it'll also end-up the same as Arc. How can we be sure this new browser will actually stick-around?
@@dftfire the truth is that we can't know for sure, that's life. As far as I know Zen is an open project based on Firefox, so pros and cons there. But I think that arc already created something important with the UX inovations that they gifted the world and that will stick around.
@@dftfire It's open source. If the current devs stop working on Zen browser, other people can just take over.
I use Arc on Mac/Windows and Search on iOS... I will often stop what I'm doing on my computer and pick up my phone just to ask Arc Search to browse something for me. Bring THAT to the desktop, please!
Browse for me? Same love that feature
I think that is part of this new product they're talking about
There's already something similar in Arc for Mac - from the Command Bar (cmd-T), type in a query and hit Shift+Return.
I will pay serious money for this
I think Browse for Me is the top feature arc can really capitalize on and maybe that's what this new product focuses on. I do wish that as a starting point that feature itself was in Arc.
Two thoughts: First - Arc struggling with their browser being both 'it's perfect' and 'it's too complex' is like watching a real life example of "Crossing The Chasm" where the early adopters want all the tech stuff but they can't get to mass adoption. Second, it was fascinating watching Josh actively avoid saying "AI" when that's what the second act is all about is kind of funny. Arc's next product is just more AI jammed into an area that I'm not convinced needs it.
I appreciate Josh talking in terms of problems/use cases instead of just vomiting out the 'AI' umbrella term. It's as pointless as saying "we will digitise the workplace to improve efficiency" or "we will leverage the cloud to revolutionise our business".
I agree, they want the slice of the market that uses chrome to switch to an AI-based browser with a subscription. I don’t think it will work at all
@@0xfeder Especially given people could just subscribe to an AI service, but also continue to use that service within their current-browser. No-one needs Arc specifically, right now, just for that.
Looking-ahead to their future product: I hope it's either a website or app you can use on existing devices, and not its own-thing, like the Humane AI PIN or Rabbit R1, neither of which have done particularly well
Yeah, my B-School hat went on while watching this and I thought... this could be a compelling case study... and then I slapped myself in the face and just felt sad that Arc is now going to die... the CEO is already talking about it in the past tense. :(
Yep, I’m sorry to say that this sounds like the wrong direction to me. At least in terms of the browser company being a company that services my needs. They are of course more than welcome to go and build a completely different product for a completely different audience, but it effectively means that the arc browser that we have today It’s not gonna continue to evolve or improve.
And it'll be a bit-odd for them to still call themselves "The *BROWSER* Company of New York" if they're not in-fact going to be actively-maintaining any browser product!
Arc for windows is such a let down it feels like Arc hasn’t made anything good in well over a year. The original mac app was lighting in a bottle then poof
It's crazy how even when it launched publicly, I couldn't see what the main pull was for Arc -- people who prefer the side-panel UI to tabs-on-top, I guess?
And yet literally _every_ tech website and content-creator for months-on-end kept saying how it was the best thing in like a decade and everyone must move to it. But they never seemed able to explain _why_ we should, other-than just "thing new" 🤷🏻♂
@@dftfire Little UX improvements can go a long way. I just need another browser that let me organize favorites in a vertical tab and i'm happy leaving Arc.
@@MolemanITA I assume you mean "organise TABS vertically", as having your bookmarks in a side-panel has been a thing in at least Edge, Firefox and Vivaldi for a while. You can pin it to keep it open.
If you mean tabs vertically, Edge and Vivaldi can both do that, and Firefox if you add an extension
HELLO WHAT ABOUT ALL THE BASE ARC FEATURES THAT NEVER MADE IT TO WINDOWS??
I swear this entire company revolves around acting like they know what they want whilst not knowing, so many of these poetic overedited videos about a vision your users most likely don't need.
total nothing burger-video said nothing but ideals and buzzwords and Windows isn't stable yet.
Windows is stable??
@@d_ngltron windows doesn't run well at all yet
@@marcogh daily Arc Windows user here. Yes it does.
@@d_ngltron You're in denial or you work at TBC. It's laggy, buggy, unstable, and isn't even close in feature parity.
@d_ngltron 👎
I genuinely believe in you guys, please don't succumb to enshittification
Never trust a company
they'll need to make money eventually, it's inevitable
This is how venture capital gets in the way of good tech products. You have a good browser with a loyal community, but because it won't reach a billion users, the company is moving onto a newer shinier toy.
When you establish a great product with no clear path to monetisation, you will find yourself under vulture capitalist control rather quickly.
We all understand what “stability updates” means. Abandoning Arc and the community that helped it grow through word of mouth is bad enough without expecting us to feel excited about it.
Since you’ve made it clear that we aren’t an important enough market to keep supporting, I guess I’ll check out Zen or head back to Safari. I expect similar reactions from my coworkers using Arc when this video hits our Slack tomorrow. I feel bad for convincing some of them to use Arc in the first place.
Zen looks amazing, I wish I'd heard of it before. And it's not Chromium too. I'm gonna switch to it now that Arc is going to die off slowly.
@@SorenVictoria Seriously, all I'm hearing about is "Zen" in like every comment. Either it is just really good... OR it's just manufactured enthusiasm, as we saw for Arc. Can we be sure Zen won't also get retired in a year or two from now?
I had the exact same thought and I had just read the title. I've been pushing people to jump on Arc pretty heavily since it launched and I'll be seeing myself out, I have enough experience with tech mumbo jumbo to know that what this means is that they'll stretch barely maintaining Arc until they can pump out this project, then either completely drop Arc or open source it, depending on which pleases their investors the most and I do not feel like living this again with a browser I love.
@@dftfire since zen is open source, even of the creator stops, anybody can continue. The entire community is filled with contributors.
it's on you for falling for this hype-backed browser with bells and whistles that don't make sense. browsers don't need more than the traditional ones provide
I've never seen a company soo far up themselves
TL;DR: They're pivoting.
I have to stop recommending software to people, I always end up getting burned. I thought i was suggesting a product that would continue to improve but apparently not. The windows browser is genuinely unusable.
You really touched on an important point here… I hate that I recommended Arc so fervently to so many people. And I hate that I'm STILL doing it - because right now it STILL is the best browser out there for Mac by a country mile or two.
Sounds like a misstep. Like Windows and Android are both in their barebones beginnings. But now you are gonna move on to AI. AI is probably the least attractive thing on the web in my opinion, so im out.
honey, you... don't matter to Arc.
@@d_ngltron sounds good to me Brave will take me just fine.
@@ckhound1 he thinks Brave cares for him. How quaint.
@@d_ngltron your mad that he has a point
@@d_ngltron What's any product without its customers?
I need you to update the Windows version with more features from macOS, then my friends will love it as I love arc. My friends are considering to change to arc, but they want more for windows. After all, it's the most used OS.
why is it so important that "everyone" use arc, or any product at that? the ai bust cant come soon enough
He literally says in the video "Arc isn't going to get us to a billion users".
Sadly, that's all that matters thesedays: numbers.
Ya'll switched up real fast. Crazy
The browser company just wrote its eulogy with this move, sad to see cause Arc was genuinely a good browser.
please allow disabling these AI features. i dont want AI shit on my browser
Idk about the mobile version, but you can disable arc max on desktop. Or just not press the browse for me button on mobile
@@iothemighty yeah this is the actual behavior on desktop, but we don't know if this will remain with these new features they are proposing
Arc is probably the only browser without a history sync functionality and you move on to a new product. It is interesting.
Why can't there be a basic and advanced setting for the browser? If those three things are too much for the average person, then cut them down for the application's default launch. But for the people who want all three core features and even more, have an advanced mode. Or better yet, just have it so you can toggle any feature and keep vertical tabs as the default. I mean I am sure this has been thought of, but why not go down a more modular route?
Too complex to build and maintain.
just the idea of it is so complicated than to actually use the browser for the first time 🤦🏻
That's the exact thought I had watching the entire video, why not abstract/hide all the "advanced" features that are kind of clutter by default in a default "minimal" setting, and leave the people that want an "advanced" setting pick it during onboarding/from settings. It would make so much more sense.
This is a great idea!
Sounds like you're spreading yourselves too thin
As a software engineer years in the business, I have very mixed feelings about this. Going through the comments I'm not alone.
I'm your huge fan guys, wish you all the best. Arc was (is?) really great experience for me.
It seems like they failed to monetise Arc hence they are building second product. It's nice that they are failing fast and failing forward. I just don't want more AI features in Arc nor I want them to discontinue Arc.
How to burn years of hard earned good will in one video.
i hope this increase in ambition is met with increase in workforce because i dont want the attention put on arc to be halved.
Sorry but Josh literally says in this video the Arc team will get smaller
The indication with this announcement is that Arc will primarily get maintenance updates from now on, not functionality updates.
"Realisation", translated: investors said "time's up kids, make some sort of AI shit that makes money"
"Take ownership of your piece of the puzzle"
LOVE that advice.... now please consider following it 😬
I'd be glad to pay a monthly fee for Arc as it is, with its updates and with the promise of further improvement. This seems like a resignation letter.
Focus on what you already have and then you can think of doing other things, every version of arc except for MacOS is very basic and without significant features, I want Arc for windows to be better, I want Arc for Android to be better
Well, if this is the direction, there's nothing else to do but say goodbye. Every version of Arc is missing something, some way more than others.
man oh man... I thought everyone on reddit was overreacting.... Then I finally watched this. great exercise on gaslighting everyone, including yourself and team. Focus on completing the browser you created, it ain't finished.
saaame! i thought redditors were just whining.. but after seeing this, they've got a point
Arc Notes was a future that was core to the product, brig it back pleeas!!
I don't care about this new chatgpt wrapper, please don't slow down development of Arc. Fix windows, expand on Android, keep innovating instead of Ai slop. Please.
I switched to Zen browser after Arc was taking way too much ram to run a couple tabs.
I've found that Zen is way faster, lower footprint, has a cleaner design and and has more security features than Arc.
Never even got a solid windows version, and now the company is leaving behind their flagship product to make something that is more easy to monetize with AI features.
They're not leaving anything behind you fucking amoeba
Given that Zen is just Firefox with a re-skin and I'd guess some added extensions I'm not surprised it works well... it should work as-well-as Firefox on any OS you use it on! 🤔
@@dftfire Given that Arc is just Chromium with a reskin it should work as-well-as any chromium browser on any OS you use it on.
Oh wait... it doesn't.
@@all-hands Sure, because they choose to write the UI in Swift, which made porting it to other platforms beyond macOS harder.
But I note that the Zen browser isn't currently available for iOS or Android, and I've also heard it can't play protected content, so things like Netflix and Spotify don't work on it?
Meh. So you're basically saying you want to build something you can monetize.... like a LLM so you can charge a subscription since you probably can't get away with doing it on a browser. Arc on Windows is basically a chrome skin at this point and you are already changing focus to something else.... that doesn't really make me trust your company will support your products in the long run.
If they made Arc for Windows stable would you pay for it?
@@Oxilorix nope. thats why I said they can't get away with charging for a browser
@@Oxilorix People would only pay for Arc if it offered some feature that made it totally worthwhile. For me, I'm not convinced the side-panel UI or "Spaces" are that... "Easel" is a feature many websites already offer for free... and does anyone actually use "Boosts"? I mean, you're visiting the same websites, but you can change their colours and fonts. Cool, I guess?
If all you need is the ability to visit websites, have tabs open, have bookmarks and a history-list and ability to download files, most browsers already have that well-covered. And what Arc was offering to me doesn't seem different-enough 🤷🏻♂
General audience here. I don't know what Arc is, I don't know why I clicked on this video, all I know is I will always use chrome.
Love using Arc on my Macbook, but using it on windows is such a pain in the ass. Every time I use it on windows, it makes my monitors refresh rate to go all over the place. Why can't you all fix the problems you have before branching off to another product barely anyone will touch. Also, also waiting on a Linux version like every other browser has.
i was so stupid for thinking this would last. It's back to Edge for me. At least I know its not going anywhere.
Your brower is a gold standard for any one that learn about ui and ux design
Honestly, I think this is a bad idea. This will make you lose current users in favor of new users. Don't get me wrong, I love Arc and I have been using it since Beta, but if your team can't manage to fix all performance issues and bugs, image what will happens when part of the team works on a new product.
I really hope I am wrong
So the ark browser is dead or least just done where it is at and the shiny new AI is king. Investors love anything AI. We have all been here before. They cannot go after search, that is suicide. This is some sort of AI clippy thing.
open source the arc browser since you can't be bothered to fix the windows version of the app anyways
Was excited to use Arc. Just installed last night. I guess I'm going back to Chrome before 24 hours. lol That final "Thank you for being a part of this journey" message says it all. Arc is not going anywhere. Will uninstall from mobile as well.
Why do you need to cater to people who are overwhelmed by vertical tabs, favorites and spaces? They already have all they need with chrome, safari, vivaldi, brave, edge, firefox and the endless other alternatives. Arc is finally a browser for pros why don't you happily grow this audience that no-one else is properly serving? If you try to become everybody's darling you will disappear, other companies with deeper pockets and their own operating systems are always going to outrun you there.
Not a SINGLE person is excited. Hope this gets the message straight.
Arc for Mac has been buggy and missing a lot of features. Its still my main browser and I love its interface a lot. I get you guys need money, but I was so hyped for you guys and this is just sad.
If Arc on Mac is buggy for you, you haven't seen windows version yet...
I really respect the company's goal of building a better browser.
Arc has been a really good product so far
All the best!
It would be cool if one of these features (maybe a smaller one) was added a bit early so we can feel like we're getting a new 'update' and not just patch notes. But I understand these things take time.
Take note folks. This is how real entrepreneurs pivot in real life. Best luck for the team on the new browser, let's hope Arc can still grow too!
Please make the windows arc better
I'm literally shifting to edge now
@@dhruvwit Hell no. Try Zen
I think it's very good that the Arc community is very critical in the comments.
I also understand the Arc team's thinking and I think it's good that they want to meet both requirements.
the new Arc product --
a super easy-to-use program for the most important digital tasks (browsing, messaging e.g. via email, time planning, notetaking etc.).
the existing Arc --
And a program that HOPEFULLY has the same features as the simple one, just more functions through the UI with tabs, spaces, lots of shortcut options etc.
But I also want to say that the Android app and especially the Windows app should still be the top priority!!
Why do you need a billion users?
Why do all startup need to have infinite growth?
That's not sustainable.
What happened to building a product you love with the goal to make enough money to live a comfortable life?
Do you have investors breathing down your neck asking for more growth, asking you to pivot?
You sound like you are going from a product you have a clear vision for to something you don't even know what it is because you are not growing fast enough.
I've been pretty happy with Zen Browser btw.
Wow this is the best browser imo. You guys killed it. Kudos to y’all folks. Please CEO kindly bring back the note feature > some of us are students and we really need it. That will be a game changer
Good it felt like an identity crisis when you started to talk about AI. Like you wanted to do to many things that don't fit together.
I really enjoy my experience using Arc, but I feel like I've lived this story before being promised something I use isn't going away while the company shifts their focus to something else. This makes me think I need to start exploring moving to a browser like Firefox.
Well that was fun while it lasted... I'm willing to wait and see but not great feeling when no mention or continued dev or support for arc.
i don't want you guys to give up on arc. even if currently i m using it on windows, i really love it. it help me concentrate on one thing at the time. help me focus and navigate better. something browser like chrome or firefox can feel really overwhelming but arc make it easy. i really hope , you continue giving us the best
In windows It's already mess.
Now (from 2 weeks) the search bar is so sloww that it's unusable.
I'm planning to switch
Try Zen
I've switched to Brave (using Brave search and Leo AI) and it's soooo superior
Freaking love this. Transparency, passion, vulnerability and experimentation right from the founder.
Honestly, I'm so sorry but this is really disappointing. Arc is, well... fine, as it is right now. But it's just fine. Not great, just fine. I do love all the neat little features it has, but it definitely could be much better. Especially on Windows, where Arc lacks a LOT of features, and has stability/optimization issues. I do definitely find what you showcased cool, but it just doesn't make sense this won't be in Arc 2.0.
You know, you talked about making Arc simpler for others to enjoy. And you said you had to build a whole new product because the core fanbase didn't want features to be removed, which you would have needed to remove if you wanted to make it more friendly for beginners. I literally thought about this for roughly 5 seconds, and I have come up with an impressive, brilliant, genius, amazing, creative idea:
- Make all of the new stuff you showed be part of Arc 2.0
- Also add a "Simple" mode to Arc. It could be enabled by default for new users, and you could put it in the set up, to choose whether or not they want simple or basic.
Thank you, for allowing us to be part of this journey. It's been a priviledge. Looking forward to this new product!
The strings of the VC puppet masters have done a 180 after not seeing a revenue generating trajectory. Classic move. An episode out of the show Silicon Valley some might say. I predict they will change their name from The Browser Company to something more buzzy in the valley.
I'm so excited for this!
WJW, the messaging of this video is exactly the opposite of the intended effect. Does this company not have ANY marketing or COMMS folks reviewing things prior to publication?!
I just uninstalled arc browser because of this video. It is a cool browser and i was trying it out, but it is not even stable in windows. And from what i understand from this video, it never will be.
I was tired of waiting for any significant update for Arc on Windows and already moved to Brave browser. So far i have zero plans to try Arc again unless important updates starting to roll out for Windows.
I tried brave but the profile switching is so annoying there
I gotta be honest, the first time I watched this, there was a sense of frustration, like everyone. But after the 12th time watching, this feels hopeful & exciting.... cant' wait to see what's next!
You should keep those features but allow users to disable them for the sake of simplicity. Or, when onboarding new users, there should be options that basically range from "I want this to be like my old browser" to "Completely change this sh*t up." This would give new, potentially less tech savvy, users a way to feel more comfortable starting out using Arc. There could be some way to ease them into newer, less familiar, features?
If there was an option though "make Arc look like Chrome", which turned the side-panel off, moved the tabs to the top, and by-default disabled Spaces, Easel and Boosts... why not just stick with Chrome?
If you want basically nothing to be different, why use it to begin with? 🤷🏻♂
You have delivered me the best browser on the market. Something I was actually dreaming of for years. I have all the trust in the world in your skills and ideas. I can't wait to see what the next product is going to be!
Sounds to me like what you wanna do is turn Arc Search into your main product and Arc into like a Pro product.
I am excited for what you guys are cooking in the background but I hope you won't stop innovating Arc, listening to the community and bringing new features to Arc
I would have loved just the normal Arc based on WebKit 😢
Arc made me feel special; Like we were specially taken care of; Like Arc wanted to provide a special tool for those who were different thinkers. That’s what made me spread the word about Arc to my community, too. I liked its A.I. limitations - made me use my own brain. If people are looking for dominant A.I. integration, there are already (too) many tools out there. Arc stood out.
Almost no product will appeal to everyone. I guess your goal (as a vc backed company) is to make that rare product that does? To make the next google search? Good luck I guess! If that’s what you think is best for the world to do which it very well might be esp if you are an optimist
But you can also build a sustainable business appealing to only a few millions of people instead of billions. Then there can be many different products that appeal to different groups of people. Which you might be realizing by letting arc be what it is and starting a new product. But I hope you don’t neglect arc too bad
The purple iMac is really letting us know that arc isn't going anywhere. :) Excited to see what you build!