One of us (Catholics or Protestants) will be surprised, either at having to go through purgatory or not having to! Personally, I think the Catholics will be pleasantly surprised, but we shall see… either way, there is one holy church that follows the teachings of Jesus and his apostles. There are Catholics, Orthodox, Calvinists, Evangelicals and others included in it, and there are some people who claim to be in each of those groups who are definitely not following Christ. God will separate the wheat from the chaff, it’s up to us to live out the Christian life as best as we can for now.
@@Adam-ue2ig So what? Jesus Christ ✝️ is full of LOVE ❤️. So you believe that ONLY Christians go to Heaven? God will NOT create Mankind if God knew for a FACT. That the Majority of Mankind, will go to Hell anyway.
@AJ Jingco so what? I'm not interested in your human reasoning Jesus Christ is the judge not me but I do go by what the Scripture says...John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son....If you don't like it your problem is with God's Word not with me. I didn't write it so take your complaint up with God.
What did he say that was untrue and inconsistent with dogma? Also, it's not wrong to believe that your loved ones are in heaven. You just aren't allowed to set up public devotion for them without them being on the process of canonization. It would be wrong for him to start a devotion to "St. Steve Ray's Father," but he is allowed to have a moral certitude that his father is in heaven
Only Yahweh knows the❤️ of a man . He works in mysterious ways. I joined the Catholic Church in 2014 convinced like yourself that this had to be the truth. But my Protestant friend persuaded me I was getting it wrong. I prayed to Jesus one day and asked if it was ok to repeat the Hail Mary on the rosery. I just opened my bible up to Acts 19:34 onwards. It’s was quite clear what the LORD was saying to me. Please consider this whole chapter especially about how God feels about worshiping idols. In this case Dianna the Ephesians god. Blessings to you my brother in Jesus. Love your talks 🕊
Matthew 7:13-14: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
For any Catholic having an issue with this dogma, i would suggest reading what the Blessed Virgin said to the calvinist Pierre Port-Comber in the apparition of Our Lady of the Willow Tree.
@@LWNightmareSheriff The blessed virgin said...." My child, if you drop your wallet in a catholic church, kick it down the street to a prot church and then bend over and pick it up."
This is a made up apparition that was told 29 years after the alleged event by the catholic wife of a protestant man. The apparition was used for political means in France at that time, when Protestantism was outlawed and punishable by slavery or death.
That is why the church needs to bring the world to it. Jonh 6 53:54 Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood ye have no life in you 54.whose eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day. This is the reason Christ established the Eucharist.
I believe one day we all will be on same page.. The breakaways from the church must also be a work of God..bcos what I see is that both Protestant n Catholics poke each other just to end up learning Bible more deeply..
The church is the collection of people that have come to believe in the Son Jesus Christ. no matter where you are from, your background or what part of the world you are in. as long as you believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose on the third day for the salvation of the world then you are part of the church (the body of Christ). The church is not an institution, it is not just one church and it is not THE church. The church is those who God as called to believe in Him
@@ST-ov8cm You just lied. They only taught that Jesus was Savior and Lord. That is the one that forgives sins. That we are to repent for Him. There is no salvation belonging to a certain church. Jesus alone is our Salvation. They had city churches. The church in Romem Jerusalem or Ephesus. Jesus sent letters to 7 churches in Revelation. None of them had Catholic in their title.
@@bcalvert321 Ok, let’s try this….Ignatius of Antioch was a student of the apostle, John. He also traveled some with Sts Peter and Paul and was actually ordained as bishop of Antioch by Peter, himself. Ignatius was fed to the lions in Rome for being a Christian but, in one of his letters he had this to say; “See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery (priests) as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.” Why don’t you provide some quotes from the early Christians that support your claims and we can compare and discuss.
As a protestant, I subscribe to protestant doctrine although I’m open to be Catholic if my understanding is wrong. But regardless of that, I guess some people like just want to know the truth in Jesus Christ regardless of the church doctrine. So if I am wrong, God please forgive me.
@@rizkylumempouw6047 Fantastic! The reason this will be important to you is because salvation is offered only through the Catholic church. There are a few exceptions, but dont count on that!
The question not being answered is - how did the teaching of Unam Sanctum wind up changing. If it was an infallible statement, please show the qualifications being brought up in this video taught back in that time! They don’t exist. As the church became more liberal, it had to change these teachings. Back then, the ‘church’ was ONLY the RCC - now it’s everyone - as long as you ‘seek God’ - whatever that means. For some Catholics I’ve listened to, that even includes Mormons, Muslims, etc…
even if they have invincible ignorance how do they get their actual mortal sins forgiven without the sacrament, perfect contrition is super rare and requires the intention to go confession. also the fact they knew of the church existence and actively rejected it means they are outside it (they also had a grave duty to investigate the churches claims)
@Bob Smith invincible ignorance must be actually invincible, like on a desert island with no internet, some dude in Italy who can’t be arsed to look into the faith is not invincibility ignorant, even an invincibility ignorant person is not going to heaven for sure
Does Purgatory exist? From a Biblical stand point, no. Hebrews 9:27 - “It is appointed for man to die once and then face judgment.” No space for any suffering to perfection. Jesus said in the story of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 that there was no way for the rich man to cross over to Abraham’s bosom. Basically, once you die, you are either in a place of torment waiting judgment or in a place of comfort. There’s no torment that leads to comfort. The idea that you still have to suffer to atone for your sins is completely against the entire thrust of the New Testament. Jesus dies for our sins, when we put our faith in Him they are completely dealt with. That’s why Paul says we are new creations: 2 Cor 5:17. The whole thrust of Galatians is that if you add anything to your faith in Christ (like paying for your own sins), you are buying into a false gospel. (When Paul says Jesus’ sacrifice lacked anything in Colossians 1:24, he’s referring to the proclamation of the Gospel, telling everyone that in Christ every single sin we ever commit - past, present and future - has been paid for by Jesus’ blood.) Purgatory makes Jesus’ last words on the Cross untrue - Jesus said “it is finished” - ie no more suffering by Jesus or anyone, the sins are paid for. It’s worth noting that 2 Maccabees 12:40-46 wasn’t considered Scripture by the Jews ever - see, for example, Flavius Josephus, Against Apion 1:8 . When Jesus refers to the 3 fold division of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms in Luke 24:28, this was excluding the Apocrypha. The fact that we have over 260 direct quotations of the Old Testament, and over 370 allusions to it, but maybe 3 allusions to the Apocrypha is telling: it was never considered authoritative by Jesus or His apostles. The Catholic church only decreed the Apocrypha to be Scripture during the reformation to give it a “biblical” basis for this and other erroneous doctrines. This was on the 4th April 1546 -
I was raised atheist. Went to an IFB as a teen. Met my husband there. I thought that was the absolute truth, except we heard that Catholics would go to Hell for doing works. I thought, that's weird, isn't making sure you don't believe any false doctrine a work? I don't know what to believe anymore, but Yeshua is a good God. Great videos, been loving the channel!
Salvation causes good works. Works does not cause salvation. You are saved by grace through faith alone. Sanctification is a process of being more Christ like and walking in good works which is what the Holy Spirit causes you to do once you’re saved
God established only one true apostolic Catholic Church, with His apostles, before His Passion. He rebuked the pharisees for making their own version of His Church, like all 44,000 other Christian Churches have done.
@@peterzinya1 Instead of trolling Catholic videos to slander, you should learn about the only Church established by Jesus Christ. He forbid the heathens of making and worshipping pagan images. He ordered Sacred images to be made of pure gold for His Ark and for His altar. He knows Catholics do not worship or idolize these images, they are just to remind us of who they represent. The same for pictures of family and friends we have in our homes, we don’t worship or idolize them or the people they represent.
@@southernlady1109 i want you to apologize for accusing me falsely. i never said you worship statues. did you see the word worship in my brief comment?Why dont you deny what i said? I said you bow befor the works of your hands. Is this true? Do you fashion wood and stone into shapes of humans and get on your knees befor them? The cherubs on the ark were not on public display. only a priest could go in once in awhile to it. God never had statues of men made. God said many times not to erect statues of men or women in the OT. The reason you cant deny what i said is because catholics do make statues of men and get on their knees befor them. You said i slander catholics. Slander is making false statements. Come on, you can do it. Just say...." we catholics dont bow down to statues that we make with our hands." If that is your thing, have at it, but dont get mad at me for taking notice of it. Next time you get on your rusty knees befor that graven(carved,engraved) image of a female or when you see someone doing that, i want you to think of me and smile.
So many Catholics want to square this doctrine with the massive amount of devout protestants who they feel “must be saved” due to their devotion. What Catholics fail to keep in mind is that we didn’t create this schism, the protestants did. Do we really think the church fathers understood the doctrine of extra ecclesiam nulla sallus to mean that schismatics, pagans and atheists can be saved? If so, then what’s the point in being Catholic. It seems that these days, the only people who are upset by the doctrine are Catholics. Who it should really be upsetting is everyone else who is outside the church.
I agree! The protestants that left the church should be worried, not the Catholics! Im staying Catholic! I dont know why anyone would want to be Protestant!
@@sheepscousin8475 If you're not Catholic there's no reason to think you'd go to heaven, it's the bitter truth, even if it doesn't make us feel good, at the end of the day our feelings aren't the determining factor here, rather God's law is. Whether or not there are certain cases of Our Lord's saving grace and the intercession of Our Lady extending to certain people who weren't baptised and confirmed Catholics in a state of grace at their point of death is not for us to know. What we do know is that we as the Church Militant need to fight for the salvation of souls the only way Our Lord taught us, by baptising them in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit through Christ's body on earth, which is The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside of which there is no salvation
The fact is that the many in the Church who have effectively defined God as a monster is probably the biggest reason most people don't consider converting. Aside from that notion, Christianity would be the best thing imaginable. I myself am holding on the as much of the faith of my youth as I can, but this threat of mass damnation is the biggest thing that holds me back. It would have been far better just to leave the question of salvation of non-Catholics as undefined and in the hands of the mercy of God. There are verses in Scripture also that support a broader view.
While I somewhat agree with what he’s saying, he stretches it way too far imo. Also I’ve never understood how we harmonise the modern interpretation with Florence, but I leave that up to people smarter than I to debate.
The way you harmonize with Florence is take it in it's proper context. The statement that nobody is saved outside the Church is true in that those who reject the Church knowingly reject their own salvation. Remember that Christ's sacrifice was for all people. It is reasonable that some are saved as, explained by some of the Church fathers, the body of Christ, his Church, may include those who seek the truth and the way but are prevented by the world from reaching it fully. These people are saved by Christ in the fufilment of a well lived life. None of this may replace the sacraments, however, so someone who dies in mortal sin will not be saved. Think of the Church as a building with a doorway that all men must enter to accept the salvation Christ has won, obviously those who are within are saved (this metaphor does not provide for sin, some Catholics reject their own salvation) and those who close the door they are meant to enter are not, but what about those who are standing in the doorway when their time comes, specifically those who did not know they were invited in or were ignorant to what was going on inside, Christ as the host would not hold that against them and in death they would be fully United with his Church triumphant. Where that threshold lies is God's business however and we are not excused from our duty to invite people into the Church.
Will Hunter No, it’s not “No one who dies in mortal sin”, it is “[The holy Roman church] firmly believes, professes, and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church (Session 11 - Feb. 4, 1442). And “But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.” So, even if they have no mortal sin, if they are not baptized and cleansed of original sin, it’s no good.
Jesus never said "Ex Eclesiam Nula Salus" Someone else did. And those who strictly believe this dictum will be shocked at how many non-catholics & even non-christians they will find there. Why? bc among other reasons, many were murdered by nomimal Catholics
@@mack6429 , I am still kind of pondering it. I do believe I’m called to pray and work that everyone enter the Catholic Church. I also believe Jesus could provide a chance for a person outside the Faith to convert in the last moments of life. So I haven’t given up, at least, on my non-Catholic friends who seem to love Jesus.
@@mikerogan9389 I hear what you mean.. I came to believe a little over 3 years ago. I grew up in a Roman Catholic Church and went through all the normal motions of the RCC but was never sure about my faith until 3 years ago.. it was then I started to go to church every week and also started to read my Bible... I not only read it but study it for hours .. some days all day long. I found God absolutely amazing and always wanted to know more. Something that I had discovered in my time studying was that there were many contradictions between the RCC and the bible. Also there are many doctrines of the RCC that are not found in the Bible. It was difficult but I knew I could not follow both teachings so decided to follow what scripture teaches over anything else. I now attend a Bible Church were everything is based on biblical teaching. Idk if your Roman Catholic or not and I truly don't mean to offend if you are .. I noticed your comment and it reminded me of myself a couple years ago. I can tell you that the Bible teaches that it's the body of believer's that make up God's true Church. No where in scripture does it say Roman Catholic Church. I also know that the Bible teaches that salvation is by Grace trough faith in Jesus Christ. According to scripture it is the life, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ that saves. If you place all of your faith and trust in Christ for that salvation, the scriptures teach that God will remove your heart of stone and replace it with a hart of flesh. You will receive the Holy Spirit and repentance will be become part of the new life. Now in my life after much struggle I realize that it's not the church, a priest, my works or even myself that saves me ... Its completely Jesus Christ and His finished work.... So many people think it's there good works that get them into heaven, what people don't realize is we all are guilty before God. We all have broken God's commandments and we all are in need of a savior... Jesus said, I am the Way the Truth and the Life.. Again I hope I don't offend, just thought I'd share with you.
Our God judges perfectly and completely, something beyond any human being's capacity (despite what the serpent would have us believe...). Reminding oneself of that makes accepting this doctrine not only palatable but necessary. The eternal judgment is in His hands, not ours, and a good thing it is too!
J Shy You couldn’t be any more wrong. Does that mean Jesus changed his mind from pope to pope considering the last 2 popes disagree almost entirely on doctrine?
This was such a disappointment vis a vis its title. We are called to be missionary disciples. Why don't we talk about how we can reach the 5million plus who do not know Jesus or his Church?
This sort of theology just reinforces Rahner's and Martiain's dissolution of sacramental grace. It's effectively saved by faith alone now that Vat II has freed grace from the sacraments. I also find the formula, heresy + time = kinda orthodox, some what questionable.
ORDINARY means of salvation is through CAtholic church.....EXTRA ordinary means of Salvation requires a Time in PURGATORY.... As Jesus himself said... ( Luke 12: 47-48) “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows
No purgatory exists...a Biblical stand point. Hebrews 9:27 - “It is appointed for man to die once and then face judgment.” No space for any suffering to perfection. Jesus said in the story of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 that there was no way for the rich man to cross over to Abraham’s bosom. Basically, once you die, you are either in a place of torment waiting judgment or in a place of comfort. There’s no torment that leads to comfort.
@@Adam-ue2ig 🙄nothing in Hebrews 9:27 denies existence of Purgatory....when you are in Purgatory , you are JUDGED as SAVED...And if you still have imperfection, you will go through Perfecting process through BEATING with FEW BLOWS... (Luke 12: 47-48) “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with FEW BLOWS."🙄
@@pinoysarisari7374 The parable talks about degrees of punishment, but it doesn't talk about redemption/purification for any of those unfaithful servants. The main point appears less about what the "unaware" unfaithful servants can "get away with," and more about how fearful those with knowledge should be. The chapter in question begins with a warning about the Pharisees (those who should have the most knowledge about God); in that context, it seems that the parable's point is how severe the punishment will be for these leaders of God's chosen people who, in spite of their knowledge, reject the Son of God. Jesus says similar things in Matt 10:15 - " Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town." - he's not saying that Sodom and Gomorrah will be saved; they are already condemned... but how much worse will the punishment be for those who saw the Son of God in person (who had knowledge greater than Sodom/Gomorrah) and yet still did not repent.
Too much inconsistency. I’m assuming this is part of what he was referring to: "For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation,," (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3).
The work of Christ is what gives salvation, not the church! If you claim Jesus as Lord of your life and confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Jesus is Lord you are saved! Only God knows the heart and if it is a true conversion to the faith! The Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicans...criticize each other's religion and it is so sad!
If you define “the church” according to Catholic theology, “the Church” is the Catholic Church. The obvious circularity of this should be … well, obvious.
Luther was and the early reformers were kicked out, not the other way around. They desired to remain in communion with the church. They chose the convictions of their consciences over conformity, which if you looked at the 16th century church there was some questionable stuff as well as the church was in flux concerning alot of dogmas.
Doesn’t the Bible say in Acts “what must I do to be saved?” And Paul says “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.” I don’t see where Paul says “and also join the Catholic Church.” If someone could point that verve in the Bible I would be grateful.
If you believed in Christ, you would believe in his Church. Matthew 18:17 "And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican." There are many that will believe in Christ and yet still be damned. Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity." The Bible says you must do other things to be saved. “Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5.) “if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matt. 19:17) “Unless you do penance, you shall all likewise perish.” (cf. Luke 13:3) Bible alone isn't enough, but even Bible alone shows this.
@Murrax9 where does it say in the Bible the church is the Catholic Church? The church is and always will be the body of believers in Christ. Wherever there is an assembly of believers in Christ there is a church assembly and fellowship and an opportunity to worship
@@jandrew86 I'm not surprised, seeing how your Bible is probably missing 6 or 7 books from it as well. Maccabees 1 and 2, Tobit, Wisdom, Baruch, etc. But even Protestant bibles say do penance like the Wycliffe Bible. But repentance involves penance. If you don't do penance you are not repenting correctly. That's the meaning of taking up your cross! As for "Where is the Catholic Church in the Bible" you got the Bible *from* the Catholic Church. It didn't fall out of the sky. That Church is founded upon Peter in Matthew 16:18-19. Why would he found his Church on *Peter* specifically and not found it on all of his apostles? It's because Peter was the head of the apostles. Now, remember back to Matthew 18:17 where it says to listen to the Church which is founded upon Peter.
I taught at a Feeneyite School and they spoke of THE doctrine. I knew it was dangerous because it was the focus. I have to be very careful as I deal with many Non Catholics but they would die for Jesus. So we must always remember that many are more Catholic than Catholics. Why because Jesus is the center of their lives not just a Sunday obligation
I think that people outside the church can be saved, but only by Catholics in a state of grace praying and offering Masses for them. To be Catholic isn’t only in name but to sacrifice like Christ did for the conversion of all sinners. But the only sure fire way to be saved is to be Catholic and live a Catholic life.
Jesus had salvation outside of the church and so did the thief. Jesus stated the kingdom is inside and around you. In the times we are living in the church needs to learn excommunication for members practicing blackmagic etc...
@@InitialPC the Bible is a collection of oral stories written down at some point, the story of Limbo is written down later, and babies in Hell was a late medieval explanation where unbaptized babies went. The idea of babies in Limbo comes from S. Augustine.
@@InitialPC Sheol is in the holy texts, that can be seen as Limbo. If you only use the Bible and ignore the christians that came before you, then that's your angle, good luck.
In a word, then, the Roman Catholic Church claims that all baptized people within professing Christendom belong to its communion. Never mind that most, at least, of these non-Catholic communions repudiate this declared association. Never mind that many, if not most, of these baptized people are simply nominal members of state churches. Never mind that many, if not most, of these baptized people never go to church. Never mind that many, if not most, of them never give a penny to the spread of the true Gospel and never pray a moment for the church’s health. They are, according to Rome, still related salvifically to the People of God and may go to Heaven!
I think there is no salvation except through Christ,and it dose not matter if we hear a watered down version, we make the choice...I believe this idea will send many to hell..Yes God dose what he wants but do not count on it,and do not teach things that put others in danger...
Hi Matt! Great video and content as well. I appreciate the work Steve Ray has done in defending the Papacy. His book, 'On this Rock' is great and provides many citations from the Church Fathers. In regards to how he is defending the dogma of extra ecclesiam nulla sallus here, I think a major point was left out (to be fair most Catholics forget to mention when discussing this dogma). Nobody can get to Heaven without Sanctifying Grace. Someone may be Catholic but if they die *not* in a state of sanctifying grace (mortal sin) they go to hell. The state of our soul determines our salvation, to enter into a state of sanctifying grace we need to be baptised. The Catholic Church recognises many Protestant baptisms provided the proper matter, form and intent are met. If the Protestant commits a mortal sin post baptism they need the sacrament of penance. The only other way a protestant can save their soul is to make a perfect act of contrition (very hard to make) before they die. The post conciliar Church seems to be so forgetful of this teaching. This language of 'the desire to be Catholic', 'anonymous Christian', 'following their conscience' completely forgets the notion of Sanctifying Grace which is the Life of Christ in us. Now, what is the likely hood that a protestant, or anyone, never commits a mortal sin? Only a priest who is in the person of Christ can absolve our sins. Apart from the confessional, the protestant needs to make a perfect act of contrition, again I ask - what is the probability of this? Saint Alphonsus Ligouri, doctor of the Church, certainly argued perfect contrition as being extremely rare (if I'm wrong on this point please correct me).
I’ve read the Vatican II acts pertaining to salvation of non-christians, and what you’re writing here is 100% correct. However, it’s very clear from those documents that even among the cardinals who discussed this matter there were some significant differences of opinion. If you’re interested, they are all available online (I think on the Vatican website). So we should consider the baptism as a way to receive sanctifying grace a pre-requisite of salvation, but in reality it’s not as clear-cut. Ultimately, salvation is up to God alone, and we can talk forever about it, but we are only human beings. I would also point to canto 19 of Dante’s Paradiso.
I’ll also add that we ought to have in mind that though God bounds his salvation to his church and it’s sacraments, he himself, is not bound by his church and its sacraments.
I'm not personally Catholic, but I think they'd say that you have less reason to be sure you are saved that someone who has availed themselves of the fullness of the church that Jesus Christ established. It isn't that you only have partial salvation, for only God truly knows how you will be judged, but there are ways we can gain certainty that we are living a life according to His will, and the Church that Christ established in the 12, led by Peter, is the best place to gain that surety. As you stray from that direction, it becomes less clear how God would save you, although God can certainly save anyone He pleases as He pleases. I take solace in that while I am a sinner, I can seek after a loving, merciful, forgiving God, and my faith is that His infinite love will suffice to save me.
Depends very much by what is meant by someone saying they've received Jesus Christ. If they then go on to reject the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which He begat in favour of a denomination founded by some guy who believes he can do better, just how much is that statement worth? Lots of people talk the talk. Only Jesus both talked the talk and walked the walk, and only He did so perfectly. Consider the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, Lk 18:9-14.
A traditional Catholic would say that not only are you not saved, you aren’t even Christian. The only Christian’s are those who are inside the Roman Catholic Church.
Steve Ray has the nerve to talk about a schism in the 16th century when there was an even greater one in AD 1054, with Rome leaving the rest of the 'Church'. The question should be "is there salvation outside the Orthodox Church?"
The Catechism goes on to state that even “those who have not received the gospel are related to the People of God in several ways” (?839). Because the faith of the Jewish People-catechetically described as the “the first to hear the Word of God”-”unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant” (?839), (5) because to the Jews belong all the privileges outlined in Romans 9:4-5 (?839), and because with Christians they “await the coming of the Messiah” (?840), the People of God encompass the Jewish people. Never mind that the Jewish people for the most part deny the deity of Jesus Christ and thus the doctrine of the Trinity. Never mind that they for the most part rejected their Messiah, Jesus Christ, the first time he came, as a misguided prophet at best and a blasphemer at worst, and accordingly believe today that Christians are idolaters because we worship him whom they contend was simply a man. Never mind that they see no need for Christ’s substitutionary atonement. According to Rome’s teaching they are still related salvifically to the People of God and may go to Heaven! (6) The Catechism then declares that because Muslims “acknowledge the Creator,...profess to hold the faith of Abraham [they do not hold Abraham’s faith, of course; they are spiritual Ishmaelites], and together with [Christians]...
I’m not sure about this. I know their has to be people who are Mormon that love Jesus and people who are Muslim that love Allah but that doesn’t mean they’re going to heaven if they failed to form their conscious about the true faith.
One cannot "find salvation outside the Church". They may attain salvation in spite of their false religions, if God is willing. There is still no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
@@mytestimonytojesuschrist my friend this is incorrect. Justification is to be declared righteous BY God. There is nothing we can do to justify ourselves. I think you are confusing justification with sanctification. We play no role in being justified. That's all on God.
@@chrisgagnon5768 Jesus said it plainly. If you care for the least of these it is heaven for you, if you do not care for the least of these it’s hell for you. Those are actions.
I think it is more charitable to tell protestants that they won't be saved unless they join the Church. This is the Ordinary means, and should be the only one taught. If Jesus saves through extraordinary means, then that is His business. The Lord hasn't given us details about any Extraordinary methods, so we shouldn't bank on them. Preach to protestants whenever possible and charitable. They need Faith, to repent and believe in the Gospel, to be baptised in The Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, they need to Eat Christ's Flesh and drink His Blood, they need to Love God with their whole beings, and their neighbours too, they need to perform the works of Mercy in order that their debts are forgiven by the Father, and they need to attain perfection (on earth, or through purgatory). Only then, as long as they have charity, can they enter heaven. All of this is in the Bible spoken Truly by the Truth. If your Protestant friends stubbornly refuse to join the Church, don't despair, but perservere in Charity and prayer. Remember, the saved are God's choice and we can only co-operate with Christ's Mission and surrender to the Will of the Father.
ORDINARY means of salvation is through CAtholic church.....EXTRA ordinary means of Salvation requires a Time in PURGATORY.... As Jesus himself said... ( Luke 12: 47-48) “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows
@Preston Schroeder FAith Alone IS A demonic Heresy...you won't even FIND that in bible...stop CHERRY picking scripture... Scripture is clear....LOVE and HOLINESS is NECESSARY for Salvation... ================== 1) PAGANS are saved through Love and Virtue...FAITH is received through the SHINING of Love and Virtue... "(Matthew 5:16) Thus let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works and they should glorify your Father in the heavens." 2) (1 Peter 2:12) "Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us." ================== FAITH and LOVE work TOGETHER... "( Galatians 5:6) For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love." =================== We are not saved by FAITH ALONE "(James 2:24) You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone." James 2:24 is the only place in scripture where you find the word FAITH ALONE 🙄🙄 ================= CHURCH is Body of Christ...If you believe in Christ, then you must LOVE his BODY... '(Ephesians 1:23) And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself.' ============== The Church is an ORGANIZATION with AUTHORITY... (Mathew 18 :17) 'If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.' =================== God is MERCIFUL, so there is reasonable hope that a PAgan can be saved if he lives by his Conscience...HOWEVER, he must go through Purgatory.... (Luke 12: 47-48) “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows."
"They need Faith, to repent and believe in the Gospel, to be baptised in The Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, they need to Eat Christ's Flesh and drink His Blood, they need to Love God with their whole beings, and their neighbours too, they need to perform the works of Mercy in order that their debts are forgiven by the Father, and they need to attain perfection (on earth, or through purgatory). Only then, as long as they have charity, can they enter heaven. All of this is in the Bible spoken Truly by the Truth. " Yeah because protestants don't do any of those things...
***IT ALL DEPENDS WHAT YOU THINK SALVATION IS, EVERY RELIGION , SPIRITUAL MOVEMENT , OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS IN WHAT SALVATION IS ALL ABOUT, PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC***
(The Catholic Church) firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church. - Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino
There is a difference between saying that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church and saying that someone who knows that the Catholic Church is the true Church and rejects it has no salvation. The second version, although true is open to misunderstanding. Since someone who makes the conscience an absolute authority in terms of one's personal actions could agree with this statement yet not hold the first version. Thus many non Catholics may agree with saying that for someone who believes that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, yet they would not agree to saying "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation". Do you see the difference? The same can be said about any mortal sin. We do not go around saying that Contraception is a sin if someone knows its a sin and still does it. We simply say its a sin. Full stop. Even if we know that incapable ignorance may excuse someone from the guilt of the sin. Do you see the essential difference?
God has promised to build his Church, which in the Revelation consists of peoples from every tribe and tongue. It seems a stretch to believe that the Lord is limited to a single institution. At its most elemental the Church consists of all regenerate believers in the Gospel.
The Church of Rome has long endorsed the inclusivist position. Karl Rahner (1904-1984), a leading Roman Catholic “inclusivist,” who coined the phrase, “anonymous Christian,” by which he meant a non-Christian who gains salvation through faith, hope, and love by the grace of Christ that is mediated imperfectly through his non-Christian religion, wrote in his Theological Investigations: Christianity does not simply confront the member of an extra-Christian religion as a mere non-Christian but as someone who can and must already be regarded in this or that respect as an anonymous Christian..... The proclamation of the gospel does not simply turn someone absolutely abandoned by God and Christ into a Christian, but turns an anonymous Christian into someone who now also knows about his Christian belief in the depths of his grace-endowed being by objective reflection and in the profession which is given a social form in the Church. (4)
I respect Steve Ray a lot but I find him using African boy as an example of someone without the true faith to be totally absurd. Many Africans know their catholic faith far more than a lot Americans languishing in sensuality as almost every abomination has been legalized in America. Steve Ray lacks some exposure
Mr Simeon. By the African boy he means those who haven't yet had the Gospel preached to them because of their location.. This is present in my country Cameroon although the Church has been here for a while.. some tribes are still getting discovered for they had kept themselves in the bushes and lived alongside animals.. have no clothing and have different beliefs .. if any.. please try to see his pt..
@@mbohherberto1001 Africa is not the only continent where you find people that have not heard the Gospel. It is a pity that such places as you have described still exist in Cameroon in 21st century
What about the Protestants who knowingly and willingly reject the authority of the Catholic Church and hold that the Catholic Church teaches a false gospel of working for grace?
What about them? If a person makes Jesus Lord and Savior, ask for forgiveness and repents then He is saved by Jesus. Baptism and the Eucharist comes after.
Sincere Ignorance yes; willful ignorance no Willfully ignorant playing with fire 🔥 kind of like a certain bishop who hosted demon worship at Assisi…but he fully knew
Apparently, even the sincere professing atheist who has not arrived at an explicit knowledge of God may be saved as long as he follows the dictates of his conscience with sincerity, for by responding to the light of conscience he is responding (without knowing it, Rome would say) in a salvific way to Christ’s Church. I can only say that the modern framers of these documents had better be glad that they were not born in the sixteenth century. The Romanist authorities living then would have burned them-including the present pope-at the stake for teaching such rank heresy!
i still would love to hear more bout the kid in africa or the indian in the jungles of south america. not that they are save or not but HOW ARE THEY SAVED
Christ saves us, not the church. That is what the Bible says. RC’s are just part of Christ’s church, you do not need to follow Paul or the Pope etc. Church is bigger than you think! Also this is a simplistic reading of church history- e.g orthodox,
What Steve says at the end about his dad being in Heaven is simply wrong. It is understandable that we want to convince ourselves that our loved ones are saved, but in this case it flies against Church teaching. This is the EXACT error that Pius IX condemned in his Syllabus of modernist errors: - "Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ." (Error 17) You can sugarcoat it all you like, but the Magisterium prior to VCII is clear. If someone dies outside the Catholic Church, we cannot outright say they are condemned, but neither can we expect them to be saved. If it were not like this, what would be the point of evangelisation? If being left in invincible ignorance is a ticket to Heaven, the charitable thing would be to leave people in their ignorance.
There is no salvation outside of Christ. There will be many churchgoers be it Catholic or Protestant that will not be in heaven because they did not truly confess Jesus as their Lord. A certain church will not save you, nor will a certain Christian Church damn you. To say otherwise is disagreeing with the Gospel, Christ alone.
Vatican 2; 😢 clearly opened the door for the great apostasy that were living in real time. It contradicts 19 centuries of truth. The cognitive dissidents to ignore the glaring blasphemies in the documents and ambiguous lack of clarity and errors can’t be overlooked. It’s like it was written by Protestant and Freemasons. I would argue that Novus Ordo Roman rite is 18% Catholic/Orthodox and 82% Protestant.
The church being the body of Christ? Or the church as an institution? Sorry to burst your happy bubble, but the RCC claiming to be the one true church is very arrogant, and pride is a dangerous sin that even afflicts and fell angels. Everyone who believes in Jesus knows the truth, Jesus is the only way, the only door, and the only life. Not the powers of men. Everyone who's read the bible knows this clearly. It's all about Jesus Christ, from Genesis to Revelation. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in HIM should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16). Christ and belief in HIM is the only way. Repent and be enlightened by His Word.
Steve is great on everything but this particular doctrine, as is the case with many contemporary Catholic apologists who cling to the twisted idea that one can be saved by the Church without being in the Church, whether only mystically or also visibly.
ORDINARY means of salvation is through CAtholic church.....EXTRA ordinary means of Salvation requires a Time in PURGATORY.... As Jesus himself said... ( Luke 12: 47-48) “The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.....
Outside the Catholic Church, which is the one and only true Church, there is no salvation. That's dogma. Any argument which contains "actually there is salvation outside the Catholic Church" is therefore heretical and leads to damnation.
If by the church you mean the Roman Catholic system, then the answer is MOST DEFINITELY. If however, you mean the Christian church, which Christ is building, composed of every born again of the Spirit child of God, then the answer is NO. Are there Catholics in it, yes. Are there Protestants in it. yes. It is not a so called Christian denomination that matters, it is a personal relationship with Christ Jesus, the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. If you are depending on your 'church' system - forget it, you are still lost. As for your Mother, that is just Satan's lie. Mary was the mother of the man Jesus, and that is as far as it goes.
This characterization of Luther is entirely unfair. He didn’t want to leave the church, he chose to stand on the Word of God rather than rules of men like Peter in Acts 5. The more apt analogy is with the boat halfway across the ocean the captain ordered everyone to start drilling holes in the hull. Luther told them the stop, so they tried to throw him overboard. He escaped with other crew members in the life raft. Also the boat didn’t set sail with a Pope, there is no evidence of one in first century Rome and instead points to a group of elders leading the church. James presided over the first Jerusalem council, not Peter. I love my Catholic brothers and sisters but find the “no salvation outside the RCC” to be a particularly harmful and abusive false teaching.
The little African boy had no ignorance. Romans 1 says that the power of God is evident from the beginning in his creation. Paul is clear that through this fact alone God made them without excuse.
Sadly, this is one of the errors of Vatican II. Jesus clearly said "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Steve says wait but they are singing over here and preaching the word...yes, but they are not doing the will of the Father.
I don't agree with the "salvation through ignorance." Or at least the way he described it. If some pagan, who worships an evil "God," can go to heaven, but a Catholic leaves the church, and becomes a protestant, goes to hell, then we got a situation where a Christion goes to hell, and a pagan goes to heaven! That is backwards! It would make sense, that a "good" or virtuous pagan could go to limbo, but an evil pagan go to hell. But still, saint paul says that if you worship a false God, you are worshiping the devil. So, either pagan go to hell, or limbo, but not heaven!
Limbo doesn’t exist, and Pious Ignorance is doctrine. A pagan of good Will who is ignorant of Christ and His Church May be saved by the mercy of Christ.
@@RomanusVII why did christ die if we can be saved, "by the mercy of Christ," outside of Christ? edit: also, I do accept saved because of ignorance, just not how he described it, I just think that it is if you are a Christian, as long as you know the basics, you can be saved. That is how protestants are saved. You don't have to know everything. You are only a heretic if you know what you are believing is heresy.
I like and appreciate the discussion, but I think people should refrain from using Africa, which has diverse cultural systems, as a reference to lack of cultural awareness or discussions around deprivation of some sort. When referring to particular contexts, it would be better to have an informed discussion especially if the aim is outlining how the conversation could be relevant or applicable to a particular scenario. Thank you so much for the discussion. Always great topics.
Apart from its completely un-Biblical stance, what is the implication of Rome’s catechetical teaching that the peoples of the world have no absolute need to hear about Christ in order to be saved, and that as long as they sincerely follow the dictates of their conscience they may be saved? Well, this teaching implies, since non-Catholics, indeed, non-Christians, according to Rome’s dogmatic declarations and catechetical instruction, may go to Heaven without becoming Christian in any of its myriad forms, that for their salvation the Roman Catholic Church as a Christ-professing institution does not need to exist. By its own statements, therefore, the Roman communion has declared its own theological obsolescence and itself a modern irrelevancy to most of the peoples of the world. These catechetical deliverances are but just one more expression among many others of the detestable apostasy that now grips the largest cult-the Marian cult-within professing Christendom. And what is so tragically ironic about this “very pernicious and detestable” teaching of Rome’s 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church is that it reasserts on the one hand the Council of Trent’s medieval doctrine of justification through faith and works and on the other makes the entire Tridentine doctrine irrelevant by teaching that all sincere people may be saved, whatever their faith or lack of it. So by its catechetical deliverances everything that modern Rome teaches about the way of salvation through Christ is short-circuited. Frankly, who should care what Rome teaches about Christ if everyone may be saved simply by sincerely following the good as he conscientiously understands and does the good?
Jesus Christ established His One True Apostolic Catholic Church & Doctrine with His apostles, before His Passion. He appointed them leaders, Peter as Head, gave THEM His authority, power & Sacraments(The Keys to Heaven). He taught everyone is to be His One True Church, receiving His Sacraments, Doctrine & Teaching or you DO NOT HAVE GOD. ALL 44,000 other Christian Churches, without Gods authority, broke away from the only Church, Doctrine & Sacraments that Jesus Christ established, to start their own version of Gods Church, like the Pharisees did and God rebuked them for doing so. Mt 23:1-39, Lk 11:37-54, Mt 16:18-19, 10:1-4, Mk3:14-19, Eph 2:19-22, 1 Cor 12:28, Acts 20:28, Lk 22:28-32, Jn 21:15-17, 10:16, 17:20-26, Eph 4:4-6, 2 JN1:9, Gal 1:6-9, Heb 13:9, Jn 3:5, Act 22:16, 2 Cor 5:18-20, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 18:17-18, Jn 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29, Lk 22:18-20, Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:21-22, Mt 19:4-6, Col 3:17-19, 2 Cor 5:20, 1:25-29, Lk 22:28-32, Jm 5:16, Lk 10:34 are a few pertinent verses. Jesus Christ said He is the living bread, the bread He gives is His Flesh, unless we eat it, we will have no life in us. If we do eat it, He will raise us up to Heaven on the last day. If we eat it unworthily, we are liable & bring a sentence against ourselves for not discerning it to be His Body & Blood. Jn 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29
men, not professing the Christian religion, [cannot] be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the laws of that religion they do profess. And, to assert and maintain that they may, is very pernicious, and to be detested [Westminster Confession of Faith, 10.4]
The Catechism then declares that because Muslims “acknowledge the Creator,...profess to hold the faith of Abraham [they do not hold Abraham’s faith, of course; they are spiritual Ishmaelites], and together with [Christians]... adore the one merciful God [Muslims and Christians do not “adore” the same “one merciful God”],” they too are included within the plan of salvation (?841). Never mind that the Muslims’ Allah is neither the tri-personal Yahweh of the Old Testament nor the triune God of the New Testament, but rather was originally a tribal deity-one in a pantheon of some three hundred-fifty false gods worshiped at Mecca-that Muhammad worshiped and “universalized” by force. Never mind that they think Christians believe their Trinity is composed of Allah, Mary, and their human offspring, Jesus. Never mind that they make Jesus’ place in revelational history penultimate to Muhammad’s ultimate place. Never mind that they deny both that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God and that he died on the cross and rose again. Never mind that they believe that Christians are idolaters because we worship Christ who they contend was only a human prophet. Never mind that they see no need for Christ’s substitutionary atonement. According to Rome’s teaching, they are still salvifically related to the People of God and may go to Heaven! The Catechism goes on to state, in fact, about all the adherents to the world’s non-Christian religions, “because all stem from the one stock which God created..., and also because all share a common destiny, namely God,” that God’s “providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend” to them as well (?842).
I can't take you nor this guest seriously anymore. You want to talk about getting people back on the boat, and they're only saved in the church which is the Roman Catholic Church. My mothers, and fathers life has changed drastically because of the word that she is now reading for herself from our conversations together. Her and I. She and other family members have told me how the church actually DISCOURAGED them not to read the bible. Not to mention that it was wrong to read revalations. They never would've heard the gospel, and the word of God if they just listened to the church, and stayed in the boat. I give all of the glory to God for my family's blessing and healing from God. None of it I take, but it breaks my heart hearing people I love not knowing what the word of God says because of the church's failure to teach them let alone encourage them to read it. I have no problem with Catholics. I did very much before, but if a person has accepted Jesus, and follows him then they're saved. It's not up to me, but when you say what you are you are failing very many people.
Finding the Church is an extension of finding the Gospel. Yeah you're saved through the Gospel but you can't grow only with the Gospel, everyone needs guidance and correct guidance. There is only one Truth so saying there is an "invisible church" is contradictory with objective truth and/or a way for people to go soft because they don't want to offend fellow Christians.
Question: How can I accept Jesus's Body and Blood from a Sodomite Priest? The Priest has violated HOW many Church doctrines? Isn't sodomy one of the sins that cries to Heaven for vengeance? This Priest participates in Usury and again how can I accept Spiritual Guidance from a PRIEST who participates in sins that Dante said are in the same circle of Hell?
Because the priest is not the one who is doing any of it. It is Christ who does it through the priest, the priest is in the Person of Christ when he gives out the sacraments. The priest can be in however many sins but he still has the authority given to him because of the Apostles. Yes we should call out sin, but first let us focus on our sins. Stop putting your faith in man and put it in Christ. Would you have left Christ because of Judas, Judas had the worst sin of all time, to betray God himself, and sell him.
gerardos256 “Stop putting your faith in man and put in Christ” That’s super rich coming from a catholic. Putting faith in man is what Catholicism is all about lol
@@gerardos256 But that's exactly what the Priest is doing, betraying God, and I have a very difficult time taking Spiritual advice from men who are unable to control their passions. Remove them and I can worship God and take spiritual advice from people I know can provide righteous Spiritual advice. My battle is Spiritual Not flesh & blood.
@@chrisgagnon5768 no it's not, we take Christ's words to heart, Christ said he built a Church upon St Peter (Matthew 16:18) Christ said eat my flesh and drink my blood, my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink (John 6:50+), Christ gave the Apostles authority to forgive sins, whatever you forgive shall be forgiven whatever you retained will be retained (John 20:23). Protests don't really believe in Christ's words and fulfill what the scriptures says that you stumble upon the rock, when you don't believe in the word (1 Peter 2:8). You don't understand the Catholic faith but just go off misinformation you have been fed, I pray you enter into the one true faith started by Jesus Christ, the Catholic faith.
@@SWIGDOG913 exactly the battle is spiritual not flesh and blood, yet you are attacking the priests on the sins he has committed in flesh, yes they have betrayed God yet so have I with my countless sins. If you claim you have not betrayed God and have no sin you are lying and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8). Again it's not wrong to call out sin, priests who are sinning should be called out, but take it privately like the Bible says (Matthew 18:15), and let's focus on our sins, stop putting your faith in man , and believe Christ who even though his priests fail him they are still his priest. Judas was an Apostle even when he betrayed Christ, St. Peter was still an Apostle when he denied Christ thrice, but it's up to you where you go, do you deny Christ's mercy, and kill yourself and damn yourself ( like Judas) or do you believe in Christ and repent ( like St.Peter)
In John 4: 20-24 Jesus told the woman at the well that true worshippers can worship anywhere so long as they worship in spirit and truth. I find no where in the KJV where the Catholic church are the true worshippers or true church.
Unbaptized people need at least implicit desire of baptism to be saved. Baptized people need to be in state of grace to be saved. Members of heretical sects of christian inspiration (protestants and Eastern Orthodox) need to be invincibly and guiltlessly ignorant of the Truth.
Which many of them are not. I know this because that used to be me. "Invincibly ignorant" does not just mean "Not convinced" no one would have interpreted it like that before the 60s.
@@murrax7639 I was converted from what was basically satanism to Protestantism. Had an ecstasy at my conversion. 3 years later after much study I finally was convinced of Catholicism, but it annoyed me to go from anticatholic to Catholic so had a big moment of hesitation that lasted for about 1-2 weeks, during that time I felt as if God had left my soul and I ultimately converted because of this awful spiritual aridity. But I could have refused, and at that point be damned. If anecdotes are worth anything I add that now as a Catholic my experience of God far surpasses what I usually had as a Protestant. So I think being convinced does have a legitimate part in Invincible Ignorance, although it is more about subjective evidence than objective evidence.
@@VirginMostPowerfull God allows everyone a chance to accept the Church. It of course plays some role, but if someone had a chance to accept the Church but ignored it and said "I'm not convinced" they aren't invincibly ignorant. I can't tell everyone what that exact moment is, but I would say most people who know the basic Catholic claims are passed that, but ultimately I'm not sure. We ought to assume that everyone outside the Church isn't invincibly ignorant so that we can convert them and don't end up with this nonsense portrayed in the video which just leads to a practical universalism. I also share that same anecdote.
@@murrax7639 Yes I agree, this Invincible Ignorance situation is getting out of hand, it's like we've excused ourselves from evangelizing through this stuff. Classic example is Bp. Barron not even having the fortitude to tell a Jew to his face that he'll go to hell for rejecting his Messiah. If I heard this dumb talk about "reasonable hope" I'd probably still be Protestant, we need to purge ourselves of these insane theological errors and remind everyone that basically all the mystics and Fathers who dealt on the topic of hell said most people will be damned. Now that is a wake up call.
From my perspective both Matt & Steve look and sound arrogant. Why? The insistence on "outside the church is no salvation" and the claim that only Team Catholic has the mind of Christ and the exclusive franchise to teach with God's authority. I get it that Team Catholic has softened its understanding of this at Vatican II. Like Steve I was converted to Christ in a baptist church. Unlike Steve I later investigated the CC and the Catholic Christians around me were following rules rather than developing lives of love and obedience to Christ. So I am still evangelical and baptist. This occurred in my early Christian years, under 20 yrs. Since then I've seen good and bad aspects in Catholic and evangelical communities; and in myself. Claims by Steve here that the fullness of the Christian faith reside more with Team Catholic than in other Christian communities appear to me to be statements like: there is a body of knowledge that makes sense to me and presents a better and wider view of the Church of Christ than similar models in other Christian communities. To his credit (IMO) Steve acknowledged the love of his Dad for Christ. I look forward to the day when Catholic apologists like Matt are less feisty about "the fullness of Christianity residing with Team Catholic". I also look forward to the day when Team Evangelical are less fractured and more cooperative within their communities.
Team Catholic teaches he fullness of the faith, provides the body of Christ at Communion and not mere bread, and offers Confession. These things don't exist in man made churches
"later investigated the CC and the Catholic Christians around me were following rules rather than developing lives of love and obedience to Christ." find me a single church, let alone one with over 100,000,000,0 people in it, where everyone is doing what they have ought to be doing. And "following the rules," if done correctly, is developing their lives of obedience to Christ. Edit: And love to Christ.
Sounds like you didn’t investigate fully. Even a basic investigation showed me everything the Catholics I met was for building a relationship with God.
@@gauloab4815 i feel like we all (protestant and catholic) walk the faith like a wikihow on "how to be a christian". lets walk in love... 1 Cor 13... thats the only way we can understand anything....and we'll end up reading that as a set of rules as well.
The idea that the Roman catholic church is the only truth is an absolute falsehood. Nowhere in the bible does it say you have to believe in the Pope to be saved. We have to believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is lord, and that's it. Baptism doesn't save you. Going to church, reading the bible, and definitely the Pope or the Church are the sources of Salvation. Only Jesus. I don't have anything agaisnt Catholics, but there are certain things that they believe that I Just can't stand behind. That doesn't make me less of a Christian, less saved, or the work that Jesus has done in my life less meaningful
Google “which church did Jesus start?” Catholic Google “who started the Catholic church?” Jesus Jesus started the Catholic church in 33ad. If you want to be outside of the only church thar Jesus started, that is your choice. Join the Catholic church! Check out Why We Are Catholic by Trent Horn.
I have a question, by what authority do you interpret what the bible means in any of that? And alongside the bible, the Catholic church does not teach that you have to "believe in" the pope to be saved, the trouble is, when you know the papacy is true, and deny it, then you are damned. Edit: The only things you have to believe in to be saved are the trinity, the divine and human nature of Jesus, etc and if you believe the Catholic church to be true, you must join it also. And if you don't believe in these basic things, you are damned.
@@johnyang1420 Jesus started the Church. Not the Catholic Church. The foundation of the Church is always Jesus, not the Pope. I'm not saying the catholic church is bad, i don't hate on it like some protestants do, but the idea that only the catholic church is under Jesus is false and unbiblical. The criterion for being Christian isn't "join the catholic church" or "believe in the Pope". It's "declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead". That's what it means to be in the Church and to be saved. Being Catholic or Protestant has no bearing on that. We can both be saved, but (for example) i don't believe that purgatory is biblical. You may given that I assume you're catholic, but whether we believe in stuff like that or other differences doesn't change the fact that we both (i hope) have declared and believed in Jesus, and therefore both saved and part of His Church
One of us (Catholics or Protestants) will be surprised, either at having to go through purgatory or not having to! Personally, I think the Catholics will be pleasantly surprised, but we shall see… either way, there is one holy church that follows the teachings of Jesus and his apostles. There are Catholics, Orthodox, Calvinists, Evangelicals and others included in it, and there are some people who claim to be in each of those groups who are definitely not following Christ. God will separate the wheat from the chaff, it’s up to us to live out the Christian life as best as we can for now.
I love how the thumbnail is just a guy standing outside a church saying, "can he be saved?" 😂
I didn’t notice that, but my mind automatically interpret it that way.
🤣
Yes, he can and it has nothing to do with being a part of the Catholic church.
I think Protestants agree, there is no salvation outside the church. protestants define church as 'those who believe in Christ'.
Actually…..no. Catholic church only
Actually no, the believers in Christ. Rome teaches that atheist, muslims, etc. Can be saved read my comments above.
@@Adam-ue2ig So what? Jesus Christ ✝️ is full of LOVE ❤️. So you believe that ONLY Christians go to Heaven? God will NOT create Mankind if God knew for a FACT. That the Majority of Mankind, will go to Hell anyway.
@AJ Jingco so what? I'm not interested in your human reasoning Jesus Christ is the judge not me but I do go by what the Scripture says...John 3:18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son....If you don't like it your problem is with God's Word not with me. I didn't write it so take your complaint up with God.
@@johnyang1420 that's not even what the Catholic Church teaches.
This was extra light on truth..going as far as Steve canonizing his father..wow!
What did he say that was untrue and inconsistent with dogma? Also, it's not wrong to believe that your loved ones are in heaven. You just aren't allowed to set up public devotion for them without them being on the process of canonization. It would be wrong for him to start a devotion to "St. Steve Ray's Father," but he is allowed to have a moral certitude that his father is in heaven
Only Yahweh knows the❤️ of a man .
He works in mysterious ways. I joined the Catholic Church in 2014 convinced like yourself that this had to be the truth. But my Protestant friend persuaded me I was getting it wrong. I prayed to Jesus one day and asked if it was ok to repeat the Hail Mary on the rosery.
I just opened my bible up to Acts 19:34 onwards. It’s was quite clear what the LORD was saying to me. Please consider this whole chapter especially about how God feels about worshiping idols. In this case Dianna the Ephesians god.
Blessings to you my brother in Jesus. Love your talks 🕊
Is asking Mary to pray for you a type of worship?
Matthew 7:13-14: “Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.”
Coz of false ecumenism coz of Vat 2 modernist majority goes to hell. So small country is saved. No salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
For any Catholic having an issue with this dogma, i would suggest reading what the Blessed Virgin said to the calvinist Pierre Port-Comber in the apparition of Our Lady of the Willow Tree.
What did she say
@@LWNightmareSheriff google Our Lady of the Willow Tree and the 1st result from deeper truth blog has a good summary of this apparition.
@@LWNightmareSheriff The blessed virgin said...." My child, if you drop your wallet in a catholic church, kick it down the street to a prot church and then bend over and pick it up."
This is a made up apparition that was told 29 years after the alleged event by the catholic wife of a protestant man. The apparition was used for political means in France at that time, when Protestantism was outlawed and punishable by slavery or death.
The example at 2:30 he gives , people are condemned because of sin . Not because of their ignorance or knowledge.
That is why the church needs to bring the world to it.
Jonh 6 53:54
Unless you eat the flesh of the son of man and drink His blood ye have no life in you 54.whose eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood hath eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.
This is the reason Christ established the Eucharist.
I believe one day we all will be on same page..
The breakaways from the church must also be a work of God..bcos what I see is that both Protestant n Catholics poke each other just to end up learning Bible more deeply..
The church is the collection of people that have come to believe in the Son Jesus Christ. no matter where you are from, your background or what part of the world you are in. as long as you believe that Jesus died on the cross and rose on the third day for the salvation of the world then you are part of the church (the body of Christ). The church is not an institution, it is not just one church and it is not THE church. The church is those who God as called to believe in Him
Ooh…….that is not what the apostles taught the earliest Christians
@@ST-ov8cm You just lied. They only taught that Jesus was Savior and Lord. That is the one that forgives sins. That we are to repent for Him. There is no salvation belonging to a certain church. Jesus alone is our Salvation. They had city churches. The church in Romem Jerusalem or Ephesus. Jesus sent letters to 7 churches in Revelation. None of them had Catholic in their title.
@@bcalvert321 Ok, let’s try this….Ignatius of Antioch was a student of the apostle, John. He also traveled some with Sts Peter and Paul and was actually ordained as bishop of Antioch by Peter, himself. Ignatius was fed to the lions in Rome for being a Christian but, in one of his letters he had this to say;
“See that ye all follow the bishop, even as Jesus Christ does the Father, and the presbytery (priests) as ye would the apostles; and reverence the deacons, as being the institution of God. Let no man do anything connected with the Church without the bishop. Wherever the bishop shall appear, there let the multitude [of the people] also be; even as, wherever Jesus Christ is, there is the Catholic Church.”
Why don’t you provide some quotes from the early Christians that support your claims and we can compare and discuss.
As a protestant, I subscribe to protestant doctrine although I’m open to be Catholic if my understanding is wrong. But regardless of that, I guess some people like just want to know the truth in Jesus Christ regardless of the church doctrine. So if I am wrong, God please forgive me.
Check out book Why We Are Catholic by Trent Horn.
@@johnyang1420 it’s hard to get it in Indonesia 🥲
@@rizkylumempouw6047 I think Cstholic Answers can email you the book! Email Catholic Answers! You will love the book! My wife is from Philippines.
@@johnyang1420 will do!
@@rizkylumempouw6047 Fantastic! The reason this will be important to you is because salvation is offered only through the Catholic church. There are a few exceptions, but dont count on that!
The question not being answered is - how did the teaching of Unam Sanctum wind up changing. If it was an infallible statement, please show the qualifications being brought up in this video taught back in that time! They don’t exist. As the church became more liberal, it had to change these teachings. Back then, the ‘church’ was ONLY the RCC - now it’s everyone - as long as you ‘seek God’ - whatever that means. For some Catholics I’ve listened to, that even includes Mormons, Muslims, etc…
even if they have invincible ignorance how do they get their actual mortal sins forgiven without the sacrament, perfect contrition is super rare and requires the intention to go confession. also the fact they knew of the church existence and actively rejected it means they are outside it (they also had a grave duty to investigate the churches claims)
@Bob Smith invincible ignorance must be actually invincible, like on a desert island with no internet, some dude in Italy who can’t be arsed to look into the faith is not invincibility ignorant, even an invincibility ignorant person is not going to heaven for sure
PURGATORY
Purgatory does not exist.
Does Purgatory exist?
From a Biblical stand point, no. Hebrews 9:27 - “It is appointed for man to die once and then face judgment.” No space for any suffering to perfection. Jesus said in the story of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 that there was no way for the rich man to cross over to Abraham’s bosom. Basically, once you die, you are either in a place of torment waiting judgment or in a place of comfort. There’s no torment that leads to comfort.
The idea that you still have to suffer to atone for your sins is completely against the entire thrust of the New Testament. Jesus dies for our sins, when we put our faith in Him they are completely dealt with. That’s why Paul says we are new creations: 2 Cor 5:17. The whole thrust of Galatians is that if you add anything to your faith in Christ (like paying for your own sins), you are buying into a false gospel. (When Paul says Jesus’ sacrifice lacked anything in Colossians 1:24, he’s referring to the proclamation of the Gospel, telling everyone that in Christ every single sin we ever commit - past, present and future - has been paid for by Jesus’ blood.)
Purgatory makes Jesus’ last words on the Cross untrue - Jesus said “it is finished” - ie no more suffering by Jesus or anyone, the sins are paid for.
It’s worth noting that 2 Maccabees 12:40-46 wasn’t considered Scripture by the Jews ever - see, for example, Flavius Josephus, Against Apion 1:8 . When Jesus refers to the 3 fold division of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms in Luke 24:28, this was excluding the Apocrypha. The fact that we have over 260 direct quotations of the Old Testament, and over 370 allusions to it, but maybe 3 allusions to the Apocrypha is telling: it was never considered authoritative by Jesus or His apostles.
The Catholic church only decreed the Apocrypha to be Scripture during the reformation to give it a “biblical” basis for this and other erroneous doctrines. This was on the 4th April 1546 -
@@Adam-ue2ig 1 Corinthians 3:15 read your Bible and Church History before you make yourself look uneducated
I was raised atheist. Went to an IFB as a teen. Met my husband there. I thought that was the absolute truth, except we heard that Catholics would go to Hell for doing works. I thought, that's weird, isn't making sure you don't believe any false doctrine a work? I don't know what to believe anymore, but Yeshua is a good God. Great videos, been loving the channel!
Salvation causes good works. Works does not cause salvation. You are saved by grace through faith alone. Sanctification is a process of being more Christ like and walking in good works which is what the Holy Spirit causes you to do once you’re saved
God established only one true apostolic Catholic Church, with His apostles, before His Passion. He rebuked the pharisees for making their own version of His Church, like all 44,000 other Christian Churches have done.
@@southernlady1109 Prots dont bow down befor the works of their hands like the idolatrous catholic do.
@@peterzinya1 Instead of trolling Catholic videos to slander, you should learn about the only Church established by Jesus Christ. He forbid the heathens of making and worshipping pagan images. He ordered Sacred images to be made of pure gold for His Ark and for His altar. He knows Catholics do not worship or idolize these images, they are just to remind us of who they represent. The same for pictures of family and friends we have in our homes, we don’t worship or idolize them or the people they represent.
@@southernlady1109 i want you to apologize for accusing me falsely. i never said you worship statues. did you see the word worship in my brief comment?Why dont you deny what i said? I said you bow befor the works of your hands. Is this true? Do you fashion wood and stone into shapes of humans and get on your knees befor them? The cherubs on the ark were not on public display. only a priest could go in once in awhile to it. God never had statues of men made. God said many times not to erect statues of men or women in the OT. The reason you cant deny what i said is because catholics do make statues of men and get on their knees befor them. You said i slander catholics. Slander is making false statements. Come on, you can do it. Just say...." we catholics dont bow down to statues that we make with our hands." If that is your thing, have at it, but dont get mad at me for taking notice of it. Next time you get on your rusty knees befor that graven(carved,engraved) image of a female or when you see someone doing that, i want you to think of me and smile.
What did Steve say at the end before it cuts away, "Follow the truth even if it hurts", is that what he said?
So many Catholics want to square this doctrine with the massive amount of devout protestants who they feel “must be saved” due to their devotion. What Catholics fail to keep in mind is that we didn’t create this schism, the protestants did. Do we really think the church fathers understood the doctrine of extra ecclesiam nulla sallus to mean that schismatics, pagans and atheists can be saved? If so, then what’s the point in being Catholic. It seems that these days, the only people who are upset by the doctrine are Catholics. Who it should really be upsetting is everyone else who is outside the church.
I agree! The protestants that left the church should be worried, not the Catholics! Im staying Catholic! I dont know why anyone would want to be Protestant!
Well said!
John Yang
I don’t know why anyone would want to be Catholic
Topher what should someone be then?
@@sheepscousin8475 If you're not Catholic there's no reason to think you'd go to heaven, it's the bitter truth, even if it doesn't make us feel good, at the end of the day our feelings aren't the determining factor here, rather God's law is. Whether or not there are certain cases of Our Lord's saving grace and the intercession of Our Lady extending to certain people who weren't baptised and confirmed Catholics in a state of grace at their point of death is not for us to know. What we do know is that we as the Church Militant need to fight for the salvation of souls the only way Our Lord taught us, by baptising them in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit through Christ's body on earth, which is The Holy Catholic and Apostolic Church, outside of which there is no salvation
The fact is that the many in the Church who have effectively defined God as a monster is probably the biggest reason most people don't consider converting. Aside from that notion, Christianity would be the best thing imaginable. I myself am holding on the as much of the faith of my youth as I can, but this threat of mass damnation is the biggest thing that holds me back. It would have been far better just to leave the question of salvation of non-Catholics as undefined and in the hands of the mercy of God. There are verses in Scripture also that support a broader view.
Thank you. We truly need more Stephen Rays. He is so knowledgeable
While I somewhat agree with what he’s saying, he stretches it way too far imo. Also I’ve never understood how we harmonise the modern interpretation with Florence, but I leave that up to people smarter than I to debate.
The answer is you can't and your instinct is good.
The way you harmonize with Florence is take it in it's proper context. The statement that nobody is saved outside the Church is true in that those who reject the Church knowingly reject their own salvation. Remember that Christ's sacrifice was for all people. It is reasonable that some are saved as, explained by some of the Church fathers, the body of Christ, his Church, may include those who seek the truth and the way but are prevented by the world from reaching it fully. These people are saved by Christ in the fufilment of a well lived life. None of this may replace the sacraments, however, so someone who dies in mortal sin will not be saved. Think of the Church as a building with a doorway that all men must enter to accept the salvation Christ has won, obviously those who are within are saved (this metaphor does not provide for sin, some Catholics reject their own salvation) and those who close the door they are meant to enter are not, but what about those who are standing in the doorway when their time comes, specifically those who did not know they were invited in or were ignorant to what was going on inside, Christ as the host would not hold that against them and in death they would be fully United with his Church triumphant. Where that threshold lies is God's business however and we are not excused from our duty to invite people into the Church.
Will Hunter No, it’s not “No one who dies in mortal sin”, it is “[The holy Roman church] firmly believes, professes, and preaches that all those who are outside the Catholic Church, not only pagans but also Jews or heretics and schismatics, cannot share in eternal life and will go into the everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels, unless they are joined to the Catholic Church before the end of their lives; that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is of such importance that only for those who abide in it do the Church’s sacraments contribute to salvation and do fasts, almsgiving and other works of piety and practices of the Christian militia produce eternal rewards; and that nobody can be saved, no matter how much he has given away in alms and even if he has shed his blood in the name of Christ, unless he has persevered in the bosom and the unity of the Catholic Church (Session 11 - Feb. 4, 1442).
And
“But the souls of those who depart this life in actual mortal sin, or in original sin alone, go down straightaway to hell to be punished, but with unequal pains.”
So, even if they have no mortal sin, if they are not baptized and cleansed of original sin, it’s no good.
Jesus never said "Ex Eclesiam Nula Salus" Someone else did. And those who strictly believe this dictum will be shocked at how many non-catholics & even non-christians they will find there. Why? bc among other reasons, many were murdered by nomimal Catholics
I struggle with this issue.
Do you still struggle with if you have to be a Roman Catholic to receive salvation ?
@@mack6429 , I am still kind of pondering it. I do believe I’m called to pray and work that everyone enter the Catholic Church. I also believe Jesus could provide a chance for a person outside the Faith to convert in the last moments of life. So I haven’t given up, at least, on my non-Catholic friends who seem to love Jesus.
@@mikerogan9389 I hear what you mean.. I came to believe a little over 3 years ago. I grew up in a Roman Catholic Church and went through all the normal motions of the RCC but was never sure about my faith until 3 years ago.. it was then I started to go to church every week and also started to read my Bible... I not only read it but study it for hours .. some days all day long. I found God absolutely amazing and always wanted to know more. Something that I had discovered in my time studying was that there were many contradictions between the RCC and the bible. Also there are many doctrines of the RCC that are not found in the Bible. It was difficult but I knew I could not follow both teachings so decided to follow what scripture teaches over anything else. I now attend a Bible Church were everything is based on biblical teaching. Idk if your Roman Catholic or not and I truly don't mean to offend if you are .. I noticed your comment and it reminded me of myself a couple years ago. I can tell you that the Bible teaches that it's the body of believer's that make up God's true Church. No where in scripture does it say Roman Catholic Church. I also know that the Bible teaches that salvation is by Grace trough faith in Jesus Christ. According to scripture it is the life, death and Resurrection of Jesus Christ that saves. If you place all of your faith and trust in Christ for that salvation, the scriptures teach that God will remove your heart of stone and replace it with a hart of flesh. You will receive the Holy Spirit and repentance will be become part of the new life. Now in my life after much struggle I realize that it's not the church, a priest, my works or even myself that saves me ... Its completely Jesus Christ and His finished work.... So many people think it's there good works that get them into heaven, what people don't realize is we all are guilty before God. We all have broken God's commandments and we all are in need of a savior... Jesus said, I am the Way the Truth and the Life.. Again I hope I don't offend, just thought I'd share with you.
@@mikerogan9389your Protestant friends will die happily believing that Jesus’s work on the cross was enough to save them
The most difficult doctrine to accept IMO.
Context and the culture of the time when the term was coined are key to understanding.
Our God judges perfectly and completely, something beyond any human being's capacity (despite what the serpent would have us believe...).
Reminding oneself of that makes accepting this doctrine not only palatable but necessary. The eternal judgment is in His hands, not ours, and a good thing it is too!
This is not doctrine Lol but Politics
@@st.mephisto8564It’s infallible, it’s in an Ecumenical council.
any man made doctrine is hard to accept
Steve said a whole lot of words without saying anything of substance.
Salvation is through Christ period
Amen, and you can't have Christ fully without his body, i.e the church.
@J Shy amen
@J Shy I will give you the full gospel is through the Catholic Church
@@donaldarmstrong8565 So, at that point, why not just be a Catholic?
J Shy
You couldn’t be any more wrong. Does that mean Jesus changed his mind from pope to pope considering the last 2 popes disagree almost entirely on doctrine?
This was such a disappointment vis a vis its title.
We are called to be missionary disciples. Why don't we talk about how we can reach the 5million plus who do not know Jesus or his Church?
@Bob Smith If believing in Christ isn't needed for salvation then why did Jesus die on the cross?
This sort of theology just reinforces Rahner's and Martiain's dissolution of sacramental grace. It's effectively saved by faith alone now that Vat II has freed grace from the sacraments. I also find the formula, heresy + time = kinda orthodox, some what questionable.
Yes it is by faith in Christ!
ORDINARY means of salvation is through CAtholic church.....EXTRA ordinary means of Salvation requires a Time in PURGATORY.... As Jesus himself said...
( Luke 12: 47-48)
“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows
No purgatory exists...a Biblical stand point. Hebrews 9:27 - “It is appointed for man to die once and then face judgment.” No space for any suffering to perfection. Jesus said in the story of the Rich man and Lazarus in Luke 16 that there was no way for the rich man to cross over to Abraham’s bosom. Basically, once you die, you are either in a place of torment waiting judgment or in a place of comfort. There’s no torment that leads to comfort.
@@Adam-ue2ig 🙄nothing in Hebrews 9:27 denies existence of Purgatory....when you are in Purgatory , you are JUDGED as
SAVED...And if you still have imperfection, you will go through Perfecting process through BEATING with FEW BLOWS...
(Luke 12: 47-48)
“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with FEW BLOWS."🙄
@@pinoysarisari7374 The parable talks about degrees of punishment, but it doesn't talk about redemption/purification for any of those unfaithful servants. The main point appears less about what the "unaware" unfaithful servants can "get away with," and more about how fearful those with knowledge should be. The chapter in question begins with a warning about the Pharisees (those who should have the most knowledge about God); in that context, it seems that the parable's point is how severe the punishment will be for these leaders of God's chosen people who, in spite of their knowledge, reject the Son of God.
Jesus says similar things in Matt 10:15 - " Truly, I say to you, it will be more bearable on the day of judgment for the land of Sodom and Gomorrah than for that town." - he's not saying that Sodom and Gomorrah will be saved; they are already condemned... but how much worse will the punishment be for those who saw the Son of God in person (who had knowledge greater than Sodom/Gomorrah) and yet still did not repent.
Salvation comes through Christ, not three any church.
Too much inconsistency.
I’m assuming this is part of what he was referring to:
"For it is only through Christ's Catholic Church, which is "the all-embracing means of salvation," that they can benefit fully from the means of salvation,," (Vatican 2, Decree on Ecumenism, 3).
The work of Christ is what gives salvation, not the church! If you claim Jesus as Lord of your life and confess with your mouth and believe in your heart Jesus is Lord you are saved! Only God knows the heart and if it is a true conversion to the faith! The Catholics, Baptists, Evangelicans...criticize each other's religion and it is so sad!
If you define “the church” according to Catholic theology, “the Church” is the Catholic Church.
The obvious circularity of this should be … well, obvious.
Why get back on the boat if your raft is bringing you to eternal life anyways?
Luther was and the early reformers were kicked out, not the other way around. They desired to remain in communion with the church. They chose the convictions of their consciences over conformity, which if you looked at the 16th century church there was some questionable stuff as well as the church was in flux concerning alot of dogmas.
Doesn’t the Bible say in Acts “what must I do to be saved?” And Paul says “Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and you shall be saved.” I don’t see where Paul says “and also join the Catholic Church.” If someone could point that verve in the Bible I would be grateful.
If you believed in Christ, you would believe in his Church.
Matthew 18:17 "And if he will not hear them: tell the church. And if he will not hear the church, let him be to thee as the heathen and publican."
There are many that will believe in Christ and yet still be damned.
Matthew 7:22-23 "Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in your name? and in your name have cast out demons? and in your name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, you that work iniquity."
The Bible says you must do other things to be saved.
“Unless a man be born again of water and the Holy Ghost, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5.)
“if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.” (Matt. 19:17)
“Unless you do penance, you shall all likewise perish.” (cf. Luke 13:3)
Bible alone isn't enough, but even Bible alone shows this.
@Murrax9 where does it say in the Bible the church is the Catholic Church? The church is and always will be the body of believers in Christ. Wherever there is an assembly of believers in Christ there is a church assembly and fellowship and an opportunity to worship
The first thousand years after Christ there was only the Catholic Church and the Orthodox Chruch so it wasn't really a question.
Murrax9 Luke 13:3 says repent it in my Bible not do penance.
@@jandrew86 I'm not surprised, seeing how your Bible is probably missing 6 or 7 books from it as well. Maccabees 1 and 2, Tobit, Wisdom, Baruch, etc. But even Protestant bibles say do penance like the Wycliffe Bible. But repentance involves penance. If you don't do penance you are not repenting correctly. That's the meaning of taking up your cross!
As for "Where is the Catholic Church in the Bible" you got the Bible *from* the Catholic Church. It didn't fall out of the sky. That Church is founded upon Peter in Matthew 16:18-19. Why would he found his Church on *Peter* specifically and not found it on all of his apostles? It's because Peter was the head of the apostles. Now, remember back to Matthew 18:17 where it says to listen to the Church which is founded upon Peter.
Hi Matt, I can't click on the full video (on the previous ones w/ Steve Ray either)
I searched for it so I'll watch it. Just to inform you.
The four last things are death, judgement Heaven or Hell. Nobody is saved until after the judgment of God.
Great video 🙏 I cant access your website I’m Irish and want to purchase some merch is it because of my location? Thanks all the best Godbless
I taught at a Feeneyite School and they spoke of THE doctrine. I knew it was dangerous because it was the focus. I have to be very careful as I deal with many Non Catholics but they would die for Jesus. So we must always remember that many are more Catholic than Catholics. Why because Jesus is the center of their lives not just a Sunday obligation
I think that people outside the church can be saved, but only by Catholics in a state of grace praying and offering Masses for them. To be Catholic isn’t only in name but to sacrifice like Christ did for the conversion of all sinners. But the only sure fire way to be saved is to be Catholic and live a Catholic life.
The people are the church, not the institution
People fill up institutions.
Jesus started Catholic church. Jesus started this institution.
Jesus had salvation outside of the church and so did the thief. Jesus stated the kingdom is inside and around you. In the times we are living in the church needs to learn excommunication for members practicing blackmagic etc...
Its called Limbo. That's what the Church has always taught. Your mom and dad are in Limbo for all eternity.
the teaching of limbo also says unbaptized children go to hell
WHERE IS THE PROOF IN THE BIBLE?
"I say so!" IS NOT EVIDENCE!
@@InitialPC the Bible is a collection of oral stories written down at some point, the story of Limbo is written down later, and babies in Hell was a late medieval explanation where unbaptized babies went. The idea of babies in Limbo comes from S. Augustine.
@@xchanxzenx zero refutation given
@@InitialPC Sheol is in the holy texts, that can be seen as Limbo. If you only use the Bible and ignore the christians that came before you, then that's your angle, good luck.
@@xchanxzenx Sheol =/= Limbo!
In a word, then, the Roman Catholic Church claims that all baptized people within professing Christendom belong to its communion. Never mind that most, at least, of these non-Catholic communions repudiate this declared association. Never mind that many, if not most, of these baptized people are simply nominal members of state churches. Never mind that many, if not most, of these baptized people never go to church. Never mind that many, if not most, of them never give a penny to the spread of the true Gospel and never pray a moment for the church’s health. They are, according to Rome, still related salvifically to the People of God and may go to Heaven!
I think there is no salvation except through Christ,and it dose not matter if we hear a watered down version, we make the choice...I believe this idea will send many to hell..Yes God dose what he wants but do not count on it,and do not teach things that put others in danger...
Drinking game: Take a dram everytime Matt nods his head.
Hi Matt!
Great video and content as well.
I appreciate the work Steve Ray has done in defending the Papacy. His book, 'On this Rock' is great and provides many citations from the Church Fathers.
In regards to how he is defending the dogma of extra ecclesiam nulla sallus here, I think a major point was left out (to be fair most Catholics forget to mention when discussing this dogma).
Nobody can get to Heaven without Sanctifying Grace. Someone may be Catholic but if they die *not* in a state of sanctifying grace (mortal sin) they go to hell. The state of our soul determines our salvation, to enter into a state of sanctifying grace we need to be baptised. The Catholic Church recognises many Protestant baptisms provided the proper matter, form and intent are met.
If the Protestant commits a mortal sin post baptism they need the sacrament of penance. The only other way a protestant can save their soul is to make a perfect act of contrition (very hard to make) before they die. The post conciliar Church seems to be so forgetful of this teaching. This language of 'the desire to be Catholic', 'anonymous Christian', 'following their conscience' completely forgets the notion of Sanctifying Grace which is the Life of Christ in us.
Now, what is the likely hood that a protestant, or anyone, never commits a mortal sin? Only a priest who is in the person of Christ can absolve our sins. Apart from the confessional, the protestant needs to make a perfect act of contrition, again I ask - what is the probability of this? Saint Alphonsus Ligouri, doctor of the Church, certainly argued perfect contrition as being extremely rare (if I'm wrong on this point please correct me).
I’ve read the Vatican II acts pertaining to salvation of non-christians, and what you’re writing here is 100% correct. However, it’s very clear from those documents that even among the cardinals who discussed this matter there were some significant differences of opinion. If you’re interested, they are all available online (I think on the Vatican website). So we should consider the baptism as a way to receive sanctifying grace a pre-requisite of salvation, but in reality it’s not as clear-cut. Ultimately, salvation is up to God alone, and we can talk forever about it, but we are only human beings. I would also point to canto 19 of Dante’s Paradiso.
I’ll also add that we ought to have in mind that though God bounds his salvation to his church and it’s sacraments, he himself, is not bound by his church and its sacraments.
Then there is no point to evangelize into the Catholic church
Can someone clarify this for me, if I’ve received Jesus Christ as my Lord and Saviour but I don’t accept the Catholic Church, I’m only partly saved?
I'm not personally Catholic, but I think they'd say that you have less reason to be sure you are saved that someone who has availed themselves of the fullness of the church that Jesus Christ established. It isn't that you only have partial salvation, for only God truly knows how you will be judged, but there are ways we can gain certainty that we are living a life according to His will, and the Church that Christ established in the 12, led by Peter, is the best place to gain that surety. As you stray from that direction, it becomes less clear how God would save you, although God can certainly save anyone He pleases as He pleases.
I take solace in that while I am a sinner, I can seek after a loving, merciful, forgiving God, and my faith is that His infinite love will suffice to save me.
Depends very much by what is meant by someone saying they've received Jesus Christ. If they then go on to reject the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church which He begat in favour of a denomination founded by some guy who believes he can do better, just how much is that statement worth? Lots of people talk the talk. Only Jesus both talked the talk and walked the walk, and only He did so perfectly.
Consider the Parable of the Pharisee and the Tax Collector, Lk 18:9-14.
You probably wont be saved. Become Catholic.
Luke 10:16…if you reject Catholic church….you reject Jesus. Why reject the Catholic church that Jesus started?
A traditional Catholic would say that not only are you not saved, you aren’t even Christian. The only Christian’s are those who are inside the Roman Catholic Church.
Steve Ray has the nerve to talk about a schism in the 16th century when there was an even greater one in AD 1054, with Rome leaving the rest of the 'Church'. The question should be "is there salvation outside the Orthodox Church?"
The Catechism goes on to state that even “those who have not received the gospel are related to the People of God in several ways” (?839). Because the faith of the Jewish People-catechetically described as the “the first to hear the Word of God”-”unlike other non-Christian religions, is already a response to God’s revelation in the Old Covenant” (?839), (5) because to the Jews belong all the privileges outlined in Romans 9:4-5 (?839), and because with Christians they “await the coming of the Messiah” (?840), the People of God encompass the Jewish people. Never mind that the Jewish people for the most part deny the deity of Jesus Christ and thus the doctrine of the Trinity. Never mind that they for the most part rejected their Messiah, Jesus Christ, the first time he came, as a misguided prophet at best and a blasphemer at worst, and accordingly believe today that Christians are idolaters because we worship him whom they contend was simply a man. Never mind that they see no need for Christ’s substitutionary atonement. According to Rome’s teaching they are still related salvifically to the People of God and may go to Heaven! (6)
The Catechism then declares that because Muslims “acknowledge the Creator,...profess to hold the faith of Abraham [they do not hold Abraham’s faith, of course; they are spiritual Ishmaelites], and together with [Christians]...
I’m not sure about this. I know their has to be people who are Mormon that love Jesus and people who are Muslim that love Allah but that doesn’t mean they’re going to heaven if they failed to form their conscious about the true faith.
One cannot "find salvation outside the Church". They may attain salvation in spite of their false religions, if God is willing. There is still no salvation outside of the Catholic Church.
True!
How does this sentiment not contradict Romans 10:9 or John 3:18 which make it clear that if you believe then there is no condemnation?
The link to the "full episode" took me to Jimmy Akin. Lol
Work of the church that brings salvation? Really Steve?
Matthew 25:31-46 has Jesus going over the works which play a role in your justification.
@@mytestimonytojesuschrist my friend this is incorrect. Justification is to be declared righteous BY God. There is nothing we can do to justify ourselves. I think you are confusing justification with sanctification. We play no role in being justified. That's all on God.
@@chrisgagnon5768 Jesus said it plainly. If you care for the least of these it is heaven for you, if you do not care for the least of these it’s hell for you. Those are actions.
I think it is more charitable to tell protestants that they won't be saved unless they join the Church. This is the Ordinary means, and should be the only one taught. If Jesus saves through extraordinary means, then that is His business. The Lord hasn't given us details about any Extraordinary methods, so we shouldn't bank on them. Preach to protestants whenever possible and charitable. They need Faith, to repent and believe in the Gospel, to be baptised in The Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, they need to Eat Christ's Flesh and drink His Blood, they need to Love God with their whole beings, and their neighbours too, they need to perform the works of Mercy in order that their debts are forgiven by the Father, and they need to attain perfection (on earth, or through purgatory). Only then, as long as they have charity, can they enter heaven. All of this is in the Bible spoken Truly by the Truth.
If your Protestant friends stubbornly refuse to join the Church, don't despair, but perservere in Charity and prayer. Remember, the saved are God's choice and we can only co-operate with Christ's Mission and surrender to the Will of the Father.
ORDINARY means of salvation is through CAtholic church.....EXTRA ordinary means of Salvation requires a Time in PURGATORY.... As Jesus himself said...
( Luke 12: 47-48)
“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows
@Preston Schroeder FAith Alone IS A demonic Heresy...you won't even FIND that in bible...stop CHERRY picking scripture...
Scripture is clear....LOVE and HOLINESS is NECESSARY for Salvation...
==================
1) PAGANS are saved through Love and Virtue...FAITH is received through the SHINING of Love and Virtue...
"(Matthew 5:16)
Thus let your light shine before men, so that they may see your good works and they should glorify your Father in the heavens."
2) (1 Peter 2:12)
"Conduct yourselves with such honor among the Gentiles that, though they slander you as evildoers, they may see your good deeds and glorify God on the day He visits us."
==================
FAITH and LOVE work TOGETHER...
"( Galatians 5:6)
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision counts for anything, but only faith working through love."
===================
We are not saved by FAITH ALONE
"(James 2:24)
You see that a person is justified by works and not by faith alone."
James 2:24 is the only place in scripture where you find the word FAITH ALONE 🙄🙄
=================
CHURCH is Body of Christ...If you believe in Christ, then you must LOVE his BODY...
'(Ephesians 1:23)
And the church is his body; it is made full and complete by Christ, who fills all things everywhere with himself.'
==============
The Church is an ORGANIZATION with AUTHORITY...
(Mathew 18 :17)
'If the person still refuses to listen, take your case to the church. Then if he or she won’t accept the church’s decision, treat that person as a pagan or a corrupt tax collector.'
===================
God is MERCIFUL, so there is reasonable hope that a PAgan can be saved if he lives by his Conscience...HOWEVER, he must go through Purgatory....
(Luke 12: 47-48)
“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows."
"They need Faith, to repent and believe in the Gospel, to be baptised in The Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit, they need to Eat Christ's Flesh and drink His Blood, they need to Love God with their whole beings, and their neighbours too, they need to perform the works of Mercy in order that their debts are forgiven by the Father, and they need to attain perfection (on earth, or through purgatory). Only then, as long as they have charity, can they enter heaven. All of this is in the Bible spoken Truly by the Truth. "
Yeah because protestants don't do any of those things...
I’ve seen wicked Catholics drive Protestants away from the faith in droves. They don’t want to convert anyone through grace and charity.
***IT ALL DEPENDS WHAT YOU THINK SALVATION IS, EVERY RELIGION , SPIRITUAL MOVEMENT , OR EVEN INDIVIDUAL HAVE DIFFERENT IDEAS IN WHAT SALVATION IS ALL ABOUT, PLEASE BE MORE SPECIFIC***
(The Catholic Church) firmly believes, professes, and proclaims that those not living within the Catholic Church, not only pagans, but also Jews and heretics and schismatics cannot become participants in eternal life, but will depart “into everlasting fire which was prepared for the devil and his angels” [Matt. 25:41], unless before the end of life the same have been added to the flock; and that the unity of the ecclesiastical body is so strong that only to those remaining in it are the sacraments of the Church of benefit for salvation, and do fastings, almsgiving, and other functions of piety and exercises of Christian service produce eternal reward, and that no one, whatever almsgiving he has practiced, even if he has shed blood for the name of Christ, can be saved, unless he has remained in the bosom and unity of the Catholic Church.
- Pope Eugene IV, Cantate Domino
There is a difference between saying that there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church and saying that someone who knows that the Catholic Church is the true Church and rejects it has no salvation.
The second version, although true is open to misunderstanding. Since someone who makes the conscience an absolute authority in terms of one's personal actions could agree with this statement yet not hold the first version. Thus many non Catholics may agree with saying that for someone who believes that outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation there is no salvation outside of the Catholic Church, yet they would not agree to saying "Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation".
Do you see the difference? The same can be said about any mortal sin. We do not go around saying that Contraception is a sin if someone knows its a sin and still does it. We simply say its a sin. Full stop. Even if we know that incapable ignorance may excuse someone from the guilt of the sin.
Do you see the essential difference?
God has promised to build his Church, which in the Revelation consists of peoples from every tribe and tongue. It seems a stretch to believe that the Lord is limited to a single institution. At its most elemental the Church consists of all regenerate believers in the Gospel.
The singular "Church" holds contradictory doctrines?
The Church of Rome has long endorsed the inclusivist position. Karl Rahner (1904-1984), a leading Roman Catholic “inclusivist,” who coined the phrase, “anonymous Christian,” by which he meant a non-Christian who gains salvation through faith, hope, and love by the grace of Christ that is mediated imperfectly through his non-Christian religion, wrote in his Theological Investigations:
Christianity does not simply confront the member of an extra-Christian religion as a mere non-Christian but as someone who can and must already be regarded in this or that respect as an anonymous Christian..... The proclamation of the gospel does not simply turn someone absolutely abandoned by God and Christ into a Christian, but turns an anonymous Christian into someone who now also knows about his Christian belief in the depths of his grace-endowed being by objective reflection and in the profession which is given a social form in the Church. (4)
I respect Steve Ray a lot but I find him using African boy as an example of someone without the true faith to be totally absurd. Many Africans know their catholic faith far more than a lot Americans languishing in sensuality as almost every abomination has been legalized in America. Steve Ray lacks some exposure
Mr Simeon. By the African boy he means those who haven't yet had the Gospel preached to them because of their location.. This is present in my country Cameroon although the Church has been here for a while.. some tribes are still getting discovered for they had kept themselves in the bushes and lived alongside animals.. have no clothing and have different beliefs .. if any.. please try to see his pt..
You dont get what he is saying 😂🙌
@@mbohherberto1001 Africa is not the only continent where you find people that have not heard the Gospel. It is a pity that such places as you have described still exist in Cameroon in 21st century
It’s just a stand-in for someone who has never heard of Jesus. It may not be accurate, but it gets the point across
What about the Protestants who knowingly and willingly reject the authority of the Catholic Church and hold that the Catholic Church teaches a false gospel of working for grace?
What about them? If a person makes Jesus Lord and Savior, ask for forgiveness and repents then He is saved by Jesus. Baptism and the Eucharist comes after.
Sincere Ignorance yes; willful ignorance no
Willfully ignorant playing with fire 🔥 kind of like a certain bishop who hosted demon worship at Assisi…but he fully knew
yo what shirt it that that youre wearing? does anyone know? it looks cool
I just do NOT think God is *LOVING* if there are NO Animals in Heaven.
Apparently, even the sincere professing atheist who has not arrived at an explicit knowledge of God may be saved as long as he follows the dictates of his conscience with sincerity, for by responding to the light of conscience he is responding (without knowing it, Rome would say) in a salvific way to Christ’s Church. I can only say that the modern framers of these documents had better be glad that they were not born in the sixteenth century. The Romanist authorities living then would have burned them-including the present pope-at the stake for teaching such rank heresy!
i still would love to hear more bout the kid in africa or the indian in the jungles of south america. not that they are save or not but HOW ARE THEY SAVED
Christ saves us, not the church. That is what the Bible says. RC’s are just part of Christ’s church, you do not need to follow Paul or the Pope etc. Church is bigger than you think! Also this is a simplistic reading of church history- e.g orthodox,
There is no salvation outside the Catholic church. Join the church of Jesus.
@@johnyang1420there is no salvation outside of Jesus Christ
What Steve says at the end about his dad being in Heaven is simply wrong. It is understandable that we want to convince ourselves that our loved ones are saved, but in this case it flies against Church teaching. This is the EXACT error that Pius IX condemned in his Syllabus of modernist errors:
- "Good hope at least is to be entertained of the eternal salvation of all those who are not at all in the true Church of Christ." (Error 17)
You can sugarcoat it all you like, but the Magisterium prior to VCII is clear. If someone dies outside the Catholic Church, we cannot outright say they are condemned, but neither can we expect them to be saved. If it were not like this, what would be the point of evangelisation? If being left in invincible ignorance is a ticket to Heaven, the charitable thing would be to leave people in their ignorance.
There is no salvation outside of Christ. There will be many churchgoers be it Catholic or Protestant that will not be in heaven because they did not truly confess Jesus as their Lord. A certain church will not save you, nor will a certain Christian Church damn you. To say otherwise is disagreeing with the Gospel, Christ alone.
Vatican 2; 😢 clearly opened the door for the great apostasy that were living in real time. It contradicts 19 centuries of truth. The cognitive dissidents to ignore the glaring blasphemies in the documents and ambiguous lack of clarity and errors can’t be overlooked. It’s like it was written by Protestant and Freemasons.
I would argue that Novus Ordo Roman rite is 18% Catholic/Orthodox and 82% Protestant.
The church being the body of Christ? Or the church as an institution? Sorry to burst your happy bubble, but the RCC claiming to be the one true church is very arrogant, and pride is a dangerous sin that even afflicts and fell angels. Everyone who believes in Jesus knows the truth, Jesus is the only way, the only door, and the only life. Not the powers of men. Everyone who's read the bible knows this clearly. It's all about Jesus Christ, from Genesis to Revelation.
For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in HIM should not perish but have everlasting life (John 3:16).
Christ and belief in HIM is the only way. Repent and be enlightened by His Word.
The guest can’t seem to cope with the fact that his parents might be in hell for not being Catholic
There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church
Steve is great on everything but this particular doctrine, as is the case with many contemporary Catholic apologists who cling to the twisted idea that one can be saved by the Church without being in the Church, whether only mystically or also visibly.
ORDINARY means of salvation is through CAtholic church.....EXTRA ordinary means of Salvation requires a Time in PURGATORY.... As Jesus himself said...
( Luke 12: 47-48)
“The servant who knows the master’s will and does not get ready or does not do what the master wants will be beaten with many blows. But the one who does not know and does things deserving punishment will be beaten with few blows.....
Outside the Catholic Church, which is the one and only true Church, there is no salvation. That's dogma. Any argument which contains "actually there is salvation outside the Catholic Church" is therefore heretical and leads to damnation.
Modern Roman Catholic Teaching with it's Inclusivism can not be reconciled with anything approaching Scripture.
No
In spiritu sanctu.
If by the church you mean the Roman Catholic system, then the answer is MOST DEFINITELY. If however, you mean the Christian church, which Christ is building, composed of every born again of the Spirit child of God, then the answer is NO. Are there Catholics in it, yes. Are there Protestants in it. yes. It is not a so called Christian denomination that matters, it is a personal relationship with Christ Jesus, the Son of God who loved me and gave Himself for me. If you are depending on your 'church' system - forget it, you are still lost. As for your Mother, that is just Satan's lie. Mary was the mother of the man Jesus, and that is as far as it goes.
There is NO salvation through the church,,,Salvation found in only in Christ Jesus through faith
Acts 4:12, 16:31 John 3:16, 14 :6
This characterization of Luther is entirely unfair. He didn’t want to leave the church, he chose to stand on the Word of God rather than rules of men like Peter in Acts 5. The more apt analogy is with the boat halfway across the ocean the captain ordered everyone to start drilling holes in the hull. Luther told them the stop, so they tried to throw him overboard. He escaped with other crew members in the life raft. Also the boat didn’t set sail with a Pope, there is no evidence of one in first century Rome and instead points to a group of elders leading the church. James presided over the first Jerusalem council, not Peter.
I love my Catholic brothers and sisters but find the “no salvation outside the RCC” to be a particularly harmful and abusive false teaching.
Martin Luther didn’t leave the ship.
He was kicked off for trying to fix it.
Lol, fix it by destroying its core doctrines
He left the ship.
The little African boy had no ignorance. Romans 1 says that the power of God is evident from the beginning in his creation. Paul is clear that through this fact alone God made them without excuse.
Sadly, this is one of the errors of Vatican II. Jesus clearly said "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.” Steve says wait but they are singing over here and preaching the word...yes, but they are not doing the will of the Father.
I don't agree with the "salvation through ignorance." Or at least the way he described it. If some pagan, who worships an evil "God," can go to heaven, but a Catholic leaves the church, and becomes a protestant, goes to hell, then we got a situation where a Christion goes to hell, and a pagan goes to heaven! That is backwards! It would make sense, that a "good" or virtuous pagan could go to limbo, but an evil pagan go to hell. But still, saint paul says that if you worship a false God, you are worshiping the devil. So, either pagan go to hell, or limbo, but not heaven!
Limbo doesn’t exist, and Pious Ignorance is doctrine. A pagan of good Will who is ignorant of Christ and His Church May be saved by the mercy of Christ.
@@RomanusVII why did christ die if we can be saved, "by the mercy of Christ," outside of Christ?
edit: also, I do accept saved because of ignorance, just not how he described it, I just think that it is if you are a Christian, as long as you know the basics, you can be saved. That is how protestants are saved. You don't have to know everything. You are only a heretic if you know what you are believing is heresy.
The basics being the trinity, full humanity and divinity of christ etc.
Romanus yes it does. The Church taught limbo for centuries. I’ll take that over Vatican II and modern rejection of it any day.
I like and appreciate the discussion, but I think people should refrain from using Africa, which has diverse cultural systems, as a reference to lack of cultural awareness or discussions around deprivation of some sort. When referring to particular contexts, it would be better to have an informed discussion especially if the aim is outlining how the conversation could be relevant or applicable to a particular scenario.
Thank you so much for the discussion. Always great topics.
Apart from its completely un-Biblical stance, what is the implication of Rome’s catechetical teaching that the peoples of the world have no absolute need to hear about Christ in order to be saved, and that as long as they sincerely follow the dictates of their conscience they may be saved? Well, this teaching implies, since non-Catholics, indeed, non-Christians, according to Rome’s dogmatic declarations and catechetical instruction, may go to Heaven without becoming Christian in any of its myriad forms, that for their salvation the Roman Catholic Church as a Christ-professing institution does not need to exist. By its own statements, therefore, the Roman communion has declared its own theological obsolescence and itself a modern irrelevancy to most of the peoples of the world.
These catechetical deliverances are but just one more expression among many others of the detestable apostasy that now grips the largest cult-the Marian cult-within professing Christendom. And what is so tragically ironic about this “very pernicious and detestable” teaching of Rome’s 1994 Catechism of the Catholic Church is that it reasserts on the one hand the Council of Trent’s medieval doctrine of justification through faith and works and on the other makes the entire Tridentine doctrine irrelevant by teaching that all sincere people may be saved, whatever their faith or lack of it. So by its catechetical deliverances everything that modern Rome teaches about the way of salvation through Christ is short-circuited. Frankly, who should care what Rome teaches about Christ if everyone may be saved simply by sincerely following the good as he conscientiously understands and does the good?
Jesus Christ established His One True Apostolic Catholic Church & Doctrine with His apostles, before His Passion. He appointed them leaders, Peter as Head, gave THEM His authority, power & Sacraments(The Keys to Heaven). He taught everyone is to be His One True Church, receiving His Sacraments, Doctrine & Teaching or you DO NOT HAVE GOD. ALL 44,000 other Christian Churches, without Gods authority, broke away from the only Church, Doctrine & Sacraments that Jesus Christ established, to start their own version of Gods Church, like the Pharisees did and God rebuked them for doing so. Mt 23:1-39, Lk 11:37-54, Mt 16:18-19, 10:1-4, Mk3:14-19, Eph 2:19-22, 1 Cor 12:28, Acts 20:28, Lk 22:28-32, Jn 21:15-17, 10:16, 17:20-26, Eph 4:4-6, 2 JN1:9, Gal 1:6-9, Heb 13:9, Jn 3:5, Act 22:16, 2 Cor 5:18-20, Jn 20:21-23, Mt 18:17-18, Jn 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29, Lk 22:18-20, Eph 1:13, 2 Cor 1:21-22, Mt 19:4-6, Col 3:17-19, 2 Cor 5:20, 1:25-29, Lk 22:28-32, Jm 5:16, Lk 10:34 are a few pertinent verses.
Jesus Christ said He is the living bread, the bread He gives is His Flesh, unless we eat it, we will have no life in us. If we do eat it, He will raise us up to Heaven on the last day. If we eat it unworthily, we are liable & bring a sentence against ourselves for not discerning it to be His Body & Blood. Jn 6:51-59, 1 Cor 11:23-29
It's sad to hear this. This is Modernism....
It’s Catholic teaching you need to submit to the church stop being a Protestant
❤️❤️❤️
MODERNISM forsure
Can you explain?
men, not professing the Christian religion, [cannot] be saved in any other way whatsoever, be they never so diligent to frame their lives according to the light of nature, and the laws of that religion they do profess. And, to assert and maintain that they may, is very pernicious, and to be detested [Westminster Confession of Faith, 10.4]
The Catechism then declares that because Muslims “acknowledge the Creator,...profess to hold the faith of Abraham [they do not hold Abraham’s faith, of course; they are spiritual Ishmaelites], and together with [Christians]...
adore the one merciful God [Muslims and Christians do not “adore” the same “one merciful God”],” they too are included within the plan of salvation (?841). Never mind that the Muslims’ Allah is neither the tri-personal Yahweh of the Old Testament nor the triune God of the New Testament, but rather was originally a tribal deity-one in a pantheon of some three hundred-fifty false gods worshiped at Mecca-that Muhammad worshiped and “universalized” by force. Never mind that they think Christians believe their Trinity is composed of Allah, Mary, and their human offspring, Jesus. Never mind that they make Jesus’ place in revelational history penultimate to Muhammad’s ultimate place. Never mind that they deny both that Jesus Christ is the divine Son of God and that he died on the cross and rose again. Never mind that they believe that Christians are idolaters because we worship Christ who they contend was only a human prophet. Never mind that they see no need for Christ’s substitutionary atonement. According to Rome’s teaching, they are still salvifically related to the People of God and may go to Heaven!
The Catechism goes on to state, in fact, about all the adherents to the world’s non-Christian religions, “because all stem from the one stock which God created..., and also because all share a common destiny, namely God,” that God’s “providence, evident goodness, and saving designs extend” to them as well (?842).
I can't take you nor this guest seriously anymore. You want to talk about getting people back on the boat, and they're only saved in the church which is the Roman Catholic Church. My mothers, and fathers life has changed drastically because of the word that she is now reading for herself from our conversations together. Her and I. She and other family members have told me how the church actually DISCOURAGED them not to read the bible. Not to mention that it was wrong to read revalations. They never would've heard the gospel, and the word of God if they just listened to the church, and stayed in the boat. I give all of the glory to God for my family's blessing and healing from God. None of it I take, but it breaks my heart hearing people I love not knowing what the word of God says because of the church's failure to teach them let alone encourage them to read it. I have no problem with Catholics. I did very much before, but if a person has accepted Jesus, and follows him then they're saved. It's not up to me, but when you say what you are you are failing very many people.
Finding the Church is an extension of finding the Gospel. Yeah you're saved through the Gospel but you can't grow only with the Gospel, everyone needs guidance and correct guidance. There is only one Truth so saying there is an "invisible church" is contradictory with objective truth and/or a way for people to go soft because they don't want to offend fellow Christians.
Question: How can I accept Jesus's Body and Blood from a Sodomite Priest? The Priest has violated HOW many Church doctrines? Isn't sodomy one of the sins that cries to Heaven for vengeance? This Priest participates in Usury and again how can I accept Spiritual Guidance from a PRIEST who participates in sins that Dante said are in the same circle of Hell?
Because the priest is not the one who is doing any of it. It is Christ who does it through the priest, the priest is in the Person of Christ when he gives out the sacraments. The priest can be in however many sins but he still has the authority given to him because of the Apostles. Yes we should call out sin, but first let us focus on our sins. Stop putting your faith in man and put it in Christ. Would you have left Christ because of Judas, Judas had the worst sin of all time, to betray God himself, and sell him.
gerardos256
“Stop putting your faith in man and put in Christ”
That’s super rich coming from a catholic. Putting faith in man is what Catholicism is all about lol
@@gerardos256 But that's exactly what the Priest is doing, betraying God, and I have a very difficult time taking Spiritual advice from men who are unable to control their passions. Remove them and I can worship God and take spiritual advice from people I know can provide righteous Spiritual advice. My battle is Spiritual Not flesh & blood.
@@chrisgagnon5768 no it's not, we take Christ's words to heart, Christ said he built a Church upon St Peter (Matthew 16:18) Christ said eat my flesh and drink my blood, my flesh is true food and my blood is true drink (John 6:50+), Christ gave the Apostles authority to forgive sins, whatever you forgive shall be forgiven whatever you retained will be retained (John 20:23). Protests don't really believe in Christ's words and fulfill what the scriptures says that you stumble upon the rock, when you don't believe in the word (1 Peter 2:8). You don't understand the Catholic faith but just go off misinformation you have been fed, I pray you enter into the one true faith started by Jesus Christ, the Catholic faith.
@@SWIGDOG913 exactly the battle is spiritual not flesh and blood, yet you are attacking the priests on the sins he has committed in flesh, yes they have betrayed God yet so have I with my countless sins. If you claim you have not betrayed God and have no sin you are lying and the truth is not in you (1 John 1:8). Again it's not wrong to call out sin, priests who are sinning should be called out, but take it privately like the Bible says (Matthew 18:15), and let's focus on our sins, stop putting your faith in man , and believe Christ who even though his priests fail him they are still his priest. Judas was an Apostle even when he betrayed Christ, St. Peter was still an Apostle when he denied Christ thrice, but it's up to you where you go, do you deny Christ's mercy, and kill yourself and damn yourself ( like Judas) or do you believe in Christ and repent ( like St.Peter)
In John 4: 20-24 Jesus told the woman at the well that true worshippers can worship anywhere so long as they worship in spirit and truth. I find no where in the KJV where the Catholic church are the true worshippers or true church.
Unbaptized people need at least implicit desire of baptism to be saved. Baptized people need to be in state of grace to be saved. Members of heretical sects of christian inspiration (protestants and Eastern Orthodox) need to be invincibly and guiltlessly ignorant of the Truth.
Which many of them are not. I know this because that used to be me. "Invincibly ignorant" does not just mean "Not convinced" no one would have interpreted it like that before the 60s.
@@murrax7639 I was converted from what was basically satanism to Protestantism.
Had an ecstasy at my conversion.
3 years later after much study I finally was convinced of Catholicism, but it annoyed me to go from anticatholic to Catholic so had a big moment of hesitation that lasted for about 1-2 weeks, during that time I felt as if God had left my soul and I ultimately converted because of this awful spiritual aridity.
But I could have refused, and at that point be damned.
If anecdotes are worth anything I add that now as a Catholic my experience of God far surpasses what I usually had as a Protestant.
So I think being convinced does have a legitimate part in Invincible Ignorance, although it is more about subjective evidence than objective evidence.
@@VirginMostPowerfull God allows everyone a chance to accept the Church. It of course plays some role, but if someone had a chance to accept the Church but ignored it and said "I'm not convinced" they aren't invincibly ignorant. I can't tell everyone what that exact moment is, but I would say most people who know the basic Catholic claims are passed that, but ultimately I'm not sure. We ought to assume that everyone outside the Church isn't invincibly ignorant so that we can convert them and don't end up with this nonsense portrayed in the video which just leads to a practical universalism. I also share that same anecdote.
@@murrax7639 Yes I agree, this Invincible Ignorance situation is getting out of hand, it's like we've excused ourselves from evangelizing through this stuff.
Classic example is Bp. Barron not even having the fortitude to tell a Jew to his face that he'll go to hell for rejecting his Messiah.
If I heard this dumb talk about "reasonable hope" I'd probably still be Protestant, we need to purge ourselves of these insane theological errors and remind everyone that basically all the mystics and Fathers who dealt on the topic of hell said most people will be damned.
Now that is a wake up call.
@@VirginMostPowerfull Yup, we agree 100%.
From my perspective both Matt & Steve look and sound arrogant. Why? The insistence on "outside the church is no salvation" and the claim that only Team Catholic has the mind of Christ and the exclusive franchise to teach with God's authority. I get it that Team Catholic has softened its understanding of this at Vatican II. Like Steve I was converted to Christ in a baptist church. Unlike Steve I later investigated the CC and the Catholic Christians around me were following rules rather than developing lives of love and obedience to Christ. So I am still evangelical and baptist. This occurred in my early Christian years, under 20 yrs. Since then I've seen good and bad aspects in Catholic and evangelical communities; and in myself. Claims by Steve here that the fullness of the Christian faith reside more with Team Catholic than in other Christian communities appear to me to be statements like: there is a body of knowledge that makes sense to me and presents a better and wider view of the Church of Christ than similar models in other Christian communities. To his credit (IMO) Steve acknowledged the love of his Dad for Christ. I look forward to the day when Catholic apologists like Matt are less feisty about "the fullness of Christianity residing with Team Catholic". I also look forward to the day when Team Evangelical are less fractured and more cooperative within their communities.
Team Catholic teaches he fullness of the faith, provides the body of Christ at Communion and not mere bread, and offers Confession. These things don't exist in man made churches
"later investigated the CC and the Catholic Christians around me were following rules rather than developing lives of love and obedience to Christ." find me a single church, let alone one with over 100,000,000,0 people in it, where everyone is doing what they have ought to be doing. And "following the rules," if done correctly, is developing their lives of obedience to Christ.
Edit: And love to Christ.
Sounds like you didn’t investigate fully. Even a basic investigation showed me everything the Catholics I met was for building a relationship with God.
@@gauloab4815 i feel like we all (protestant and catholic) walk the faith like a wikihow on "how to be a christian". lets walk in love... 1 Cor 13... thats the only way we can understand anything....and we'll end up reading that as a set of rules as well.
It is the truth…..even if arrogant. I didnt find them to be arrogant.
The idea that the Roman catholic church is the only truth is an absolute falsehood. Nowhere in the bible does it say you have to believe in the Pope to be saved. We have to believe in our hearts and confess with our mouths that Jesus Christ is lord, and that's it. Baptism doesn't save you. Going to church, reading the bible, and definitely the Pope or the Church are the sources of Salvation. Only Jesus. I don't have anything agaisnt Catholics, but there are certain things that they believe that I Just can't stand behind. That doesn't make me less of a Christian, less saved, or the work that Jesus has done in my life less meaningful
Google “which church did Jesus start?” Catholic
Google “who started the Catholic church?” Jesus
Jesus started the Catholic church in 33ad. If you want to be outside of the only church thar Jesus started, that is your choice. Join the Catholic church! Check out Why We Are Catholic by Trent Horn.
I have a question, by what authority do you interpret what the bible means in any of that? And alongside the bible, the Catholic church does not teach that you have to "believe in" the pope to be saved, the trouble is, when you know the papacy is true, and deny it, then you are damned.
Edit: The only things you have to believe in to be saved are the trinity, the divine and human nature of Jesus, etc and if you believe the Catholic church to be true, you must join it also. And if you don't believe in these basic things, you are damned.
John Yang
Unfortunately for you that is a lie. May the blinders be removed from your eyes.
Gau' Loab
By what authority does anyone interpret the bible?
@@johnyang1420 Jesus started the Church. Not the Catholic Church. The foundation of the Church is always Jesus, not the Pope. I'm not saying the catholic church is bad, i don't hate on it like some protestants do, but the idea that only the catholic church is under Jesus is false and unbiblical. The criterion for being Christian isn't "join the catholic church" or "believe in the Pope". It's "declare with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead". That's what it means to be in the Church and to be saved. Being Catholic or Protestant has no bearing on that. We can both be saved, but (for example) i don't believe that purgatory is biblical. You may given that I assume you're catholic, but whether we believe in stuff like that or other differences doesn't change the fact that we both (i hope) have declared and believed in Jesus, and therefore both saved and part of His Church
If this is reallly true that Protestants know the Bible better then Catholics wouldnt they be Catholic 😅
consequences of original sin 😢