NASCAR Holley Fuel Injected Engines on the Dyno
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 ก.ย. 2024
- From www.horsepowerm...
After racing Holley carburetors for decades, NASCAR recently made the switch to fuel injection beginning with the 2012 season. But even with all the changes to the engines, Holley still plays a pivotal role in making these engines perform. The engine builders at Roush Yates Engines and ECR gave us a behind-the-scenes look at what's involved and how Holley makes it happen. This is a video I produced for Holley taking a look at their new billet throttle body.
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Should have just been called "Watch this Holley commercial".
You do all realize that it's NASCAR which is STOCK CAR auto racing. Everyone is complaining that it's old school technology, but let's see somebody else take a naturally aspirated 358ci v8, no turbos, superchargers or anything of the sort, and make 900 hp and crank 9000 rpms for hours, since it's so old school and outdated.
agree!
Doubtful they make 900 anymore. They were claiming 750-780hp a couple years ago. You have to remember back when Bill Elliott was running the 351C back in the 80's and getting those 210+ laps, they were running 14:1 or better compression ratio. NASCAR limited compression to 11:1 back in the 90's...
they are making roughly 840 on the cup engines
Kyle Miller why did you feel the need to state "no turbos, superchargers or anything of that sort" in addition to "naturally aspirated"?
if you talk AT people like they are stupid it generally inspires contempt, and in most cases will keep people from even caring about the point you are trying to make. no matter how good it may be.
that being said, I agree completely.
Yep Kyle, u r correct
Those NASCAR engines are great swapping a 1986 to 2011 Ford Crown Victorias; 1978-95 and 2011 Chevy Caprices, including 2012 AWD Ford Police Interceptor Taurus. That is something I love to see.
Why do people feel the need to ruin videos with loud annoying junk music? What's wrong with the sounds of the engines and people's voices?
They make these videos for the masses. The average idiot out there is below average intelligence. It is hard to keep their attention for very long. This is how you keep them entertained. All they know is fast cool engine. There was a time in all of our life that we were this dumb. Only it was when we were very young instead of an adult. The people that have the best educations and some of the highest paying jobs could not survive without gear heads and engineers. I feel sorry for them if there ever is a event where they have to rely only on themselves. They won't last very long trying to find someone to pay to do something for them. We have turned into a nation of wussies.
I think the answer is... there's a tv producer in the mix somewhere, and this wasn't really made with any concept outside of that medium in mind. My complaint is there has been a generic formula that says if it's cars, the audience is guys, therefore queue up a cheesy guitar riff. Now I do like rock, but when the music mix goes inside of 60/40 presence with content and starts fighting with the presentation, it annoys me to no end because I can't enjoy either one with any clarity or flow. Come to think of it, the last time I rebuilt a carb... I was listening to Joshua Redman - so much for the stereotypes.
say what you want about pushrods, they allow for a more compact engine.
Top fuel V8s making 20,000+ hp. All pushrod.
Oh, this is a Holley commercial....I thought it was something cool!
Trolling the NASCAR Ford dyno Vids in my spare time and came across this little Gem. Yeah, I know its an advo for Holley but I love the shots of what looks like an FR9 on the Dyno. Got to say, I've done quite a few retrofit EFI conversions on Musclecars and I've used a wide range of manufacturers throttle bodies. IMHO the Holley 4bbl 112 series throttle bodies work great and actually a pretty good price compared to other Manufacturers throttle bodies.
The Vid seems to point out the strong points of the billet NASCAR version of the Holley Throttle Body, but leaves out what I find is the most important points for the Automotive enthusiast who might need one of these 4bbl throttle bodies to retrofit EFI to an old Musclecar V8.
Most Carb people are familure with the Holley carb throttle lever and the form factor and this is what many people miss when they go to retrofit a car that previously had a carburetor. The Holley EFI 4bbl throttle body follows this same form factor and the throttle lever is exactly the same type and location as a standard Holley Carburetor. This makes it super easy to retrofit an old Muscle car with EFI and retain the original linkage, even the Transmission kickdown/TV if required. Even the Air cleaner diameter and fitment are the same as a standard Holley Carb.
Repost without music I put a thumbs up
This had nothing to do with testing an engine on the dyno. Just a crappy Holly promo video. If I wanted that I would have searched for it.
Now that's a great product
yeah very durable, even the o-rings which caused a leak and my carb caught fire, 10\10 would recommend
No doubt Turbo617. OH, look out...Holley is building state of the art throttle bodies. Way to be ahead of the curve. Oh and well done patting yourselves on the back.
first the throttle body is designed to fit a direct replacement of the carb. second this style of throttle body is better for hp because the air and fuel goes strait into the intake manifold it does not have any restrictions. another thing is it would be impossible to make a 4 barrel throttle body. with the second generation throttle body setup.
The new engines have a much more milder idle and seem to burn more efficient. The pro is that they don’t burn your eyes out with race gas fumes, in the garage. The con is that they lost a lot of that hot rod radical idle of the carbureted engines. IMO
If Holley starts making a tuned port injection system, I wonder if NASCAR would then be forced to use it? It seems like their crony system only allows them to use Holley products, so the technological innovation has to start somewhere. I would love to see NASCAR become more modern and fully embrace 20th century technology. In another 20 years, we might even see 5 speed transmissions.
+Larz Nope, Holley actually does make a tuned port system, and it is excellent. Engine builder Keith Dorton used it on a 260 cubic inch SB2 with a blower that made 1,000 horsepower, and I got to document the dyno session ( th-cam.com/video/QH4yh4TsP2w/w-d-xo.html if you want to see it). But NASCAR chose the McLaren system which is ridiculously expensive. It's frustrating, because you will find people using Holley's Dominator engine management system in all types of applications, but the McLaren is limited only to extremely high end racing. I suspect it was a money thing but don't know for sure.
why would you want a 5 speed transmission?
***** with 900 hp a two speed is all you need.
***** My comments were made totally out of sarcasm and the comments of Luke Whiteskin that followed just exemplify what I am talking about. If one racing team in "Stock Car Racing" was was allowed to have a 7 speed dual clutch transmission like Porsche uses in all of their road cars, they would totally destroy all of the competition. Race after race. It would be 1st, 1st, 1st. Within just a few months, every team would cry foul because one team had this magic bullet of a 7 speed dual clutch transmission. It is mind boggling why NASCAR refuses to accept the technology of "stock cars." If any one manufacturer was allowed to use all of their "stock car" technologies like ABS, traction control, active suspension, active aerodynamics, dual clutch transmissions or direct injection, they would just utterly destroy the competition. It wouldn't just be once. It would be race after race, season after season of prison-rape like dominance. It's just a head scratcher to me. Why engage in a rules structure that only allows technologies that are 50+ years old? To be honest, what I see is that using my 50 year old technology rule, turbos will be allowed in NASCAR starting in 2024 since Porsche started producing the 911 turbo continuously since 1974 (other companies offered turbo cars sporadically but with limited reliability and success). So after 2024, turbos are fair game. But using that same rule, 5 speed transmissions would have been legal starting in 1998 and 6 speed transmissions would be legal in 2017. The 7 speed wouldn't be legal until 2061. Where does NASCAR come up with these arcane and useless rules? It makes the rest of the world laugh at the US like we are redneck bumpkins.
Larz
you don't understand torque, these cars run in a very narrow rpm range, the inertial mass of a 7 speed transmission is a detriment, they would run slower. dual clutch transmissions do not make a car go faster, they decrease pedal pressure and increase flywheel pressure. there is very little need to shift,
" Why engage in a rules structure that only allows technologies that are 50+ years old? "
electronic systems that fail at 180 mph will get you killed
you are not very smart
when throttle body first came out in the late 70s they had a carb design. in the 80s they used this same design for the rs 305 camaro. and that design made more hp then the 2nd gen throttle body
+Michael Tallent
It's a waste of time discussing Gen2 when GenV is already kicking
I see an awful lot of debate on EFI vs Carburetors. I am an old school racer but I can say that EFI is superior to carburetion for so many reasons. First of all, it isn't just a fuel management system, it manages every aspect of the engine. Ignition timing, fuel and even cam timing on newer factory setups. Soon there will be electronically actuated valves negating the need for camshafts, single OHV or SOHC/DOHC. Computers can vary the operation in real time to environment while carbs work in a much more narrow predetermined window. NASCAR has been slow to shift to EFI because they are already trying to limit engine power to keep the drivers safer. Why do you think engine size is limited to around 6.0 litres and they have been using restrictor plates for years. Remember, in 1970 Dodge/Plymouth were running 426's and Ford/Mercury were running 429's. Those cars were breaking 200 mph when just 12 years earlier cars were barely doing 150. A lot of people died spawning restrictions. I race a lot of street stock dirt and carbs are still the norm but it's to keep cost down, not because they are better. Sorry but standing up for carburetors as being superior is like claiming the telegraph is better than a cell phone.
I don't understand how they can use them. Holly says this EFI carb is only good for engines up to 600hp. These NASCAR engines exceed 600hp.
lecil2 Their set ups for street cars are different.
injector size plays a huge role here.
Title says NASCAR engines on the dyno.....but is really just an advertisement video for Holley.
Lose the DAMNED MUSIC!!
😹😹😹
will it fit in my honda
The title is misleading. Where is the dyno?
Leland Holton I know... I wanted to see some numbers.
2nd Amendment Molon Labe that's exactly what I wanted to see too.
***** that doesn't really count as its only a few seconds of the entire video. Most of the video is gab about the engine by people holding parts.
I had a Holly EFI system on a road race car, SCCA FS. SB Chevy. It was JUNK. Replaced it with MO-TECH.
So what engine is nascar using now? I've not kept up with nascar in years
Could someone speak to the coil set-up for each cylinder- which coils were used, what was used to mount them bracket or hardware wise with those valve covers, etc? Any help is appreciated. Regarding the injection, who configured the upper intake for the injector bungs, or is there a service via Roush Yates offers to convert this upper intake from carb to fuel injection?
one crazy looking thumb
I saw a comment on someone’s post that said “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it “. NASCAR is most definitely broken!!! If you don’t believe it, just look at the stands at any race!!! They have removed grand stands from most tracks so they can crowd what few people are there into the front straightaway just so the place don’t look empty and so they don’t have to show a bunch of empty stands around the track..... It is actually pitiful compared to the old days in every way!!! The leadership is pitiful as well, all the stupid new rules, the dumbass “chase”, the stages, forget that shit and just race. And what ever happened to France after he got busted for “oxy’s” and drunk driving?? They sure did try to keep that quiet..... LOL!!!
Where was the dyno part? I must have blinked.
ok so this is just a huge advertisement for holley. By the titel I thought we would see some comparison dyno runs between carb and efi . waste of time instead.
real electronic fuel injection only injects fuel into the cylinder during the intake stroke, no fuel is being sucked into the exhaust manifold during valve overlap, this deal saves fuel and cuts down on emissions, as for injector location, any where above the intake valve will work, you either squirt into the manifold ports, or the ports in the head, the closer to the intake valve the less chance of fuel seperation
tom ashton Electronic fuel infection is a fuel delivery system in which fuel is injected into the engine (via fuel injectors). Electronic fuel injection is said system being controlled electronically as opposed to other methods (alternative to mechanical fuel injection).
A "fake" electronic fuel injection system would be for example mechanical fuel injection, the location of the fuel injections doesn't matter just the fact that it is electronically controlled in order to be called electronic fuel injection. Now the location of the fuel injector in this case is obviously not the ideal place to put it, however those are two different things and is likely done as a leveling measure. All racing sanctioning bodies (from Nascar to formula one) make choices like these as fair competition is the most important aspect of competitive motor sports. This is why in Formula One many electronic vehicle control systems were banned in the early 1990s if I remember as not all teams could afford such system so to keep things fair they banned them.
Why do they position the injectors so far up the intake manifold? That epitomizes indirect injection.
Cooler charge temp and finer atomization
its ok but the music is anoying
I recognise it from somewhere I can't remember where but it's familiar
Wa speaking about the engine shown if the video is paused around the 1:28-1:32 mark
HERE, Hold my beer
Would be interesting how much power they lost....and how much MPG they gained?
Also Interesting how High up the runners they put the injectors?, Probably to give the fuel time to give the air a cooling affect that the Carb did + mixing.
They should have jumped right to direct injection....maybe in another 20 yrs;-)
Even though the lower divisions still use carbs
Time for direct injection. ..we k know how slow to tech change NASCAR is looks like holly also a bit behind the times.
Does NASCAR mandate ignition coil now? Or you all still using the distributor cap setup?
+David Stewart Yes, they use individual coils for each plug now and cap off the distributor access hole in the blocks.
+David Stewart You can see the coils at 0:17.
haha the voice cut at 3:30
NASCAR and NHRA can be bought , as you see they have been bought by Holley . I just wonder how many teams would run you stuff if they had to Chose . ???
Oh Does any Pro Mod teams use Holley
They don’t need fuel injection
Boogty boogty boogty amen
Why do they not go electronically controlled?
all the eurosnob nascar haters in the comment section are clueless to the fact that sprint cup spec ECU computer comes from Mclaren.
NASCRAP did one thing right. But then NHRA screwed the pooch and made Pro Stock use a real craptastic ECU and injectors, Holley.
Shouldnt the title be Mclaren fuel injection on a NASCAR engine using a holley throttle body?
4 minute 27 seconds video. 27 seconds of dyno time....4 minutes of Holley commercial.
Put one of their first Projection systems on my caddy, what a piece of shit. Ripped it off after a month and sold it on ebay
Are you shitting me, production tech passé this decades ago
Excuse me but this style of throttle body is old school, Nascar should go with the fuel injector setup.
What? It is fuel injection.
Of course its fuel injection, but not by the optimal standards. Fuel injectors over better performance than the throttle body version, which has been known now for many years.
fordwindsor351 Not sure I get what you're saying. Elaborate for me lol sorry, I get that they're using a holley throttle body, and the injectors are there with the fuel rails, spraying fuel in through the intake, correct? Sorry, I'm not too knowledgable about this stuff, but I've been going through the process of putting an Edelbrock fuel injection setup on a chevy 350 and I don't know much outside of that system haha.
Sorry, I didnt get my point out in my first comment. The injector location isnt in the best location unless results over the pass 15 years are wrong. Its best to have the injectors closer to the end of the tunnel, not up near the top. Wonder why they dont go with the newer direct injection?
fordwindsor351 You are definitely right about injector location. The story I heard was NASCAR had a hard time finding a spot in the intake manifold that was equally good for all three makes (Ford, Chevy, Toyota), so they wound up choosing a spot that was equally bad.
Why do they have to make the throttle look like a carb.
NASCAR mandated Holley because of sponsership money. Just like they mandate Goodyear Tires.
Call NASCAR what it is, low tech, parity, team racing sport and that's fine it's great for spectators which in turn supports the sponsorship function but high tech it just isn't
What' With all the music
Song ..NIRVANA SCHOOL ..FAST PACE
Sorta. Not quite but good ear
+kishdogg05 Nirvana= garbage!
to each his own
would be nice if audi or bmw would build a nascar diesel race engine , they would win every time , and use only half the fuel
Get audi to run a diesel v8 at 9000 rpm for hours then come back, or even a gas v8, one thats pushrod with carbs, exactly stfu
Gee let's build an engine with maximum horsepower and torque then restrict that power every week???
Its not about the motors.....or the technology. Its about Nascar's unwillingness to change. The sport is drowning with no attendances and really boring races. Teams arent allowed to explore the limits as far as aero or downforce or tires for that matter. Does it really matter that there has to be 5 lugs on a wheel or some crew guy has to lug 20 gallons? of fuel on his shoulder? F1 teams are pitted and changing tires in under 2secs. IMSA teams are pitting in 40 sec doing fuel, tires AND a driver change. Considering what they do with push rod motors is amazing but how about letting teams run and expierment at least 4 cam motors. I know most of the time they run in circles so I they dont need paddle shifters. What do they do shift maybe 2 or 3 times a lap? In IMSA Corvette will be going to a 4 cam 5.5 liter flat plane crank motor next year. Frankly, its about time.
Holley click bait
The guys in this video all seem a little "special", no?
Cool Engine. But why put it in a Nascar that has absoloutly no Handling.... better put it in a DTM or GT3 car
Mmmm...
Not much can go wrong with a throttle plate...
^.^
bloody soundtrack cant watch it
Buy a commercial.
Juj
Well, what do you know, CLICK BAIT . . . i came for Dyno Video on misleading title and left because HOLLEY BLATANT ADVERTISEMENT and PRODUCT PLACEMENT.
I wasted money for years chasing elusive speed and watching men go in a circle. More family time and less nicknacks. I use a jimmie johnson bobble head for pellet gun practice,now.
How the fuck can anybody go on a racetrack with this stoneage engine. Compare that to LMP1 LMP1 have over 900kw and Hybridsystems while being extremly fuel efficient through modern fucking engine like with 4 Valves 4 Crankshafts Turbocharging and Direct Injection. Ford had shown America can build good engines so why are you still working with this engines. This Nascar stuff is so outdated in Europe they would have been outdated by Production car standards back in the fucking 70s
mad money and mad expensive racing isnt a perfect recipe for spectator entertainment. (lol formula 1)
tell me one good reason why an oval spec race car would need to run a dohc turbo hybrid (like lmp1 like you say)?
cheap and powerful. proven technology.
thats why they still use pushrod engines.
+euroaaRON1 Well in LMP1 you have great Sport. And yes F1s shit. But LMP1 is a testbench gor future hightech. Oval teack racing is another problem. Where is the skill (i don't say i can do it better not even close to a true racer). The Daring Manouvres? Thinking the Legendary 2011 24h Battle Audi vs Peugoet. The best most thrilling motorrace in History.... Thats not possible without a track.... look at the corvette... an awesome sportcar... American Motorsport could be better.
TheNecromancer6666 where is the skill???!
you would be shitting your fucking pants in a 3 wide pack at talladega. im sorry but anyone that says nascar drivers have no skill is just ignorant. the turth is us normal people could not even handle the nerve stress of a full race distance in a nascar let alone the actual forces they put up with thru the race. not to mention 50 other cars only inches from you the whole time.
f1 drivers and indy drivers have much respect for nascar drivers and vice versa. in fact f1 drivers (most skilled) respect indy drivers to a very high degree because they know it takes a certain kind of crazy to race an open wheeled car in a pack on an oval at 220mph.
Music sucks