🛠️ DIY Open Baffle Speakers PART 6: I should have these reviewed.
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.ค. 2024
- Open baffle speakers are AWESOME! I am sharing my experience and how I built these after building several others. These are my 8th pair. They don't just sound amazing, the money I saved by not having to buy high end commercial speakers allowed me to have better amplifiers, dac, pre-amp.
Speaker driver used
lii-song.ca/collections/for-c...
ABX references
abxaudiophiles.org/abx-baffles
Router jig - Milescraft
• Milescraft 1219 Circle...
Support hificave:
/ hificave
My channel: / @hificave
Gear seen In this video.
Lii-song drivers: www.lii-song.ca
Melody audio pre-amp www.melodyhifi.com.au
Puritan Psm156 power conditioner
Musical Paradise www.musicalparadise.ca
Welborne Labs 300b monoblocks
Crown xls 1002 www.crownaudio.com/en/product...
Super rectifier www.thebestamp.com/Accessories...
Chapters
0:00 Build these under 1000$
0:28 Tools
1:42 Disclaimer
2:18 Summary
3:51 Driver height
8:03 Wise mind thoughts
9:19 Router holes & horns
15:31 Bass
18:46 Broccoli baffles & end
Awesome video! Thank you. Exactly the info that I needed right now. 😊
Best detailed baffle I have ever seen, thanks so much!
I think separating the baffles works well. I built U baffle for the bass. Basically a box with the back open, and then just set a small baffle on top of the box for the mid/hi's. I found isolating the vibration by setting the upper baffle on a silicon trivet then improved the sound.
Nice Build! (and nice pipe!)
Thank you!
Good job 👏 you🤘
Thanks!
Nice! I like ob speakers but I've been going down the hole of cardioid, guess I like the challenge, lol. And yes every speaker I build sounds amazing to me and I think they should get reviewed, haha, just the nature of the process
I have a pair of Betsy baffles using the Lil Fast 8. They sit atop a pair of SVS SB-2000 subwoofers. These sit on a pair of IKEA Kallax cubes. The phase plugs on the Fast 8s are at 44" and the center of the SB-2000s driver is at 24".
The SB-2000s feed everything above 80 Hz to a Schiit Saga S, then to a PrimaLuna ProLogue Five powering the Betsy baffles.
Crude, but surprisingly effective.
I have experimented with a small open baffle using a 6.5 inch driver and rear facing out of phase tweeter with no crossover.
Driven by Technics amp with Yamaha equaliser.
I was surprised how well they worked.
LETS GO!!! 🎉❤😊
good job Canada
Love your videos
Love your comment
Great video man!! I've been down the same rabbit hole, we have done very similar experiments with slightly differing executions:
- I played around with different baffle material: 2 inch thick Maple was too reflective. 1.5 inch laminated ply (like you) sounded great but I found the build a bit flimsy. I settled on 2 inch thick cedar for my personal sound preference. My experience has shown that baffle material sound characteristics are very similar to acoustic guitar wood characteristics (ie difference between maple top, cedar top ect).
- I have the same findings with regards to height of speaker on baffle. I prefer the speaker to be lower on the baffle but too low and it kills transparency. Solution I came to was to place the center of speaker 24 inches from floor but I tilted the entire baffle back by 5 degrees (cut the bottom of the baffle at 5° and also cut the edge of floor plate that attaches to baffle at 5°). This keeps the benefits of a lower speaker position but points the speaker directly at my ears in seated position. This worked out amazing! Degree of tilt would need to be adjusted based on how close or far one is sitting from speaker.
- I'm using a set of Rel subs at the moment. I'm in a huge room (36 x 48 with 16 foot ceiling) so I need a lot of bass power.
If you ever head down to the baie des chaleurs in the Gaspésie give me a shout, would love to compare notes over a lobster meal 😊
“Wood used in acoustic guitars… “thats what made me raise an eyebrow. Wood combination as used in acoustic guitars should have similar effects on baffles. Some woods are more flat, some are more crisp and detailed and some project mids or lows more in guitars.. one of my future projects.
May I share a little trick for your next project? It's not a game changer but another tiny step. Hiraga shared this with me (the old man is still sharp). I am sure you know these PHY drivers and they do something very easy but incredibly smart. Have a close look at their baskets. Their baskets overlap with the surround (without touching it of course), so they mechanically reduce the surrounds resonance sounds. ;-) Isn't that smart? So maybe for your next project you want to do the same trick but with your baffle. With your 15 inch unit I guess you will even have enough space to get something acoustic dampening stuff in between like foam or felt or something.
Thank you!!!! I took note of this
I made a pair of Decware ZF15M clones in 40mm solid oak. Well, I say I made them, but I got the guy who usually supplies 3'x3' oak tabletops to cut them to shape and drill the holes for the drivers in them according to the plans I bought from Decware for $30. Didn't get him to cut horns for me because I thought the F15s sat flush on the surface -- only found out when they were delivered that they stand proud of the surface by about a centimetre. Hey-ho.
The baffles are held upright by being screwed to sturdy triangular 45 degree oak shelf brackets screwed in turn to Sapele baseplates. The baffles are angled slightly back by using approx 1" high universal castors mounted near the front of the baseplates. Coupled with slim teflon glides at the rear, this also makes them easy to manoeuvre as they weigh a ton. The baffles were supplied Danish oiled, but I oiled the baseplates and shelf brackets too.
I assembled them in a day or so and all it took was a screwdriver. All the hard cutting work had been done for me by my supplier. All told, they cost me £1300 (I'm a Brit), less than a third of the cost the commercial versions would have cost me here in the UK. Since I got them, I've listened to nothing else. They're bloody marvellous down to around 50hz (and supported for lower frequencies with a REL T0 sub). The midrange was a revelation -- so rich and full. I found myself enjoying real music for the first time ever - never realised before what I'd been missing. Don't think I'll ever go back to box speakers!
Very cool!!!
A couple of random comments - the width of the saw blade cut is called a kerf.
The 'L' bracket is intended to strengthen what is called a moment connection - the supports and the baffle are essentially cantilevered off each other - so the bracket would be much better if it was larger. And I would suggest 2 supports out near the edges of the baffle - they could be longer, and this would be more stable.
On the bass response, I think that sometimes "wings" are used to increase the path length to lower the frequency that is canceled? The wing(s) can be on one side or both, and can be different lengths; to tune the bass response more independently from the height of the driver.
Edit: tilting the baffle back a bit will raise the treble listening axis while keeping the driver lower - you have several/all of your builds tilted a bit; but it is worth mentioning.
Great stuff!!!
I was thinking of using a butcher block countertop that you can get from Home Depot. I’ve used them for making stereo equipment racks. They are extremely thick, heavy, dense and beautiful. They are 50”x25”x1.5” and the price was very reasonable.
My last version was using exactly that.
@@hificavedid you simply move to ply due to already having it laying around? 🤔
you could decouple the two drivers in a similar way that Linkwitz did with his 521.4 design.
The big Decware master series baffles are 42” high with the f-15 centered 25-1/4” off the floor. I think a bunch of testing went into figuring out these dimensions but I could be mistaken. Either way they sound lovely.
Yes ! Steve did lots of work there. I hope to hear one eventually.
@@hificave
I used my F15's on homemade square baffles.Had to go for two Rel Subs to get get satisfying bass.
Now I use exact replicas of the big Decwares.The difference is huge.No more subs needed. Better staging too.
Great Video! If I remember correctly, the Liionidas designer (Leon?) recommended that the top and bottom drivers use different baffle materials. So maybe a modular model with the W15's mounted in Mdf?
I have been thinking of a way to do this, but with a fully decoupled approach. Maybe the new Maco speakers dont have this issue with the quartz baffle.. im curious to hear.
Those Maco speakers look damn sexy and the material’s are intriguing.
@@hificave I am on the VIP list when Maco releases its speaker. I am now going to purchase Clayton Shawa CALADAN open baffle as I need to go with a proven speaker designer.
"These saved me big $$$$ on my hifi" - isn't the _whole point_ of high-end audio to *spend* as much money as possible?
definitely interested in taking on project . i wanted to know how you decided on you speaker driver choices. Was looking at pure audio project as an example but i looked at the prices of the full range driver and was floored on the cost.
I wanted flea watt amp friendly drivers, and after speaking to Steve at Decware, I acquired the lii-song drivers. And have been loving them ever since. But im sure other drivers do a good job too.
Interesting video. Have you considered mounting your drivers slightly to the left or right so as to distribute diffraction effects? Thanks!
i sure have. In a future build for sure!
@@hificave Great, thanks!
By using different mounting techniques, materials that are seen here online, and lots of modifications on the transducers including close to 5 years of experimentation, you can hear the current version of my own design on my tiny YT channel 🙂
I need to go hear that! 😎
@@hificave Hey my Hi-Fi DIY brother, no problem, but I am in beautiful Costa Rica. Believe me, they sound substantially better in my place.
@@hificave I did upload a few more samples. There is a need to replace my cell phone as it can't handle the real dynamic speed and spatial pinpoint coherence, and need to get a decent mic setup. After I get some new custom OPT amp's it will just keep getting better. It's a constantly evolving process, and I like it that way 🙂
Thankyou for your great work - what speakercable do you prefer for fullrange highefficiency speakers?
Big ones with a large diameter or thin solidcore? Some Hornspeaker users like solidcore. Greatings from Germany!
Duelend DCA16
Hi Loic, are you using active crossovers? How do you manage filtering and phase and level for your woofers in their own baffles?
Crossover built in to the crown xls for bass drivers as well as gain.
F15 operate full range but roll off around 70hz in these baffles so I adjust the crown to match.
My preamp had variable gain outputs which gives me some extra flexibility with the power amps.
I’m thinking of building these and having them at ear height suspended from cables along with either dual stereo or infinite baffle subs.
Any idea what the imaging would be doing this? 🤔
Suspended? No idea! Sounds like fun to try.
Those drivers look suspiciously close to the MACO Macarias. Could it be the same driver?
How would you describe the highs on it? I find full range drivers to be course, or lacking in speed and clarity over lower mass separates. Can you share what you used to cross over the low end of the full ranges. Thanks
They are similar, but not the same. Maco uses specific drivers made for their platform produced by the same company that makes these drivers.
Kept it simple, my preamp has 3 analog outputs, with different gain factors, so I use the low gain factor output for the 211 tube amp that drives the full range driver in these baffles, and they are at 70hz at -6db ish… and use the high gain output on the preamp to go to an crown xls class d amplifier which had built crossover configs that drives the w15 drivers in the back corners using their own baffles and low pass them at 90hz. Reason I use the high gain output on the bass is two reasons, first I get more head room with the crown amp so I dont need to run its own output to the w15 too high. Keeping the amp in it’s happy place but still get good and clean bass. Second, is the low gain outout to my tube amp that drives the fullrange drivers provides a much quieter noise floor to my 97db efficient drivers. Results, are very good. I mean by using full range drivers it doesn shine as much for large orchestral, but I dont listen to large orchestral as much as I do simple jazz, blues and rock trios.
Hi could you share your insights as to how much is the advantage of :
In your words "Cutting up the baffles" and separating the f15/w15. VS your current setup (f15 in front w15 behind f15?
Thanks
Its for very picky people with the level of transparency and depth in their stereo image and lower midrange quality. But Both sound great. Separating top from bottom is a better result, in my room, with my gear and positioning, its 15-20% better on: soundstage, resolution, midrange texture.
@@hificave thanks
hi Cave, thanks for the wonderful videos, could you give advice on choosing speakers, lii sound has 2 types of f12: the first type is f12, it has a beautiful bullet and a thick cap on the back of the speaker, the density qts is greater than 1, there is a newer one the version called “f-12” is distinguished by the absence of a cap on the rear panel, and the bullet is not so beautiful, qts == 0.7. Question: which version of the speaker is better?
I have not tried the f12 versions. But, I think the one with a 1.0 qts has better top end resolution with a small reduction in bass performance.
The one with 0.7qts has a bit bettet bass but a small reduction in top end resolution.
@@hificave Thank you, very valuable advice.
What type of crossover part : Air Coils, polypropylene capacitors, precision resistance. Mundorf?
No crossover. Direct.
Hi! Im interested these speakers, im starting my own speaker project and i have few questions. Have you limited the f15 at all or is it still full range? And im trying to figure it out that should i buy f15 or fast 15... I like wide soundstage but havent got straight answer about these two 😅
I do not limit the f15. I let the baffle determine the low frequency gap, and compensate with the w15 using the crown xls band pass. Takes some trial and error and easy room measurements.
@@hificave im allso thinking about adding amt tweeter in the mix, i know its not the easiest but im curious about it. How do you feel, does the f15 need the upper region more?
Nice job ! How would you compair your speakers to the Lii Song Leonidas ?
Leonidas are more precise, a bit faster. If you use em with the silver10 drivers.
I have a pair of fast 12's. Is there a resistor or some kind of choke i can use on them to fix the sound they are fatiging in the upper mid to high's
Yes, Decware sells an exact filter network for that for the Fast 15. It uses a 36.5 ohm resistor. I have the schematic of it and a foto of the finished network. I can text/email those to you, but youtube comments dont allow attaching fotos.
I just realized your talking about Fast 12 not 15. Maybe Decware has one for that as well? Or if the two drivers responses are similar you could try the Fast 15 network..not sure, im out of my depth as far as that gos.
Yes, if they (drivers) are around 6 ohms you can use a RL filter in series with the driver for -2.5dB (a) and -5 dB (b) to adjust to your taste.
a: 0,82mH + 6,8ohm n.i.
b: 1,5mH + 15ohm n.i.
(n.i. meaning non inductive, air core coils)
RL circuit has the inductor and the resistor connected in a parallel combination with each other for this purpose.😊
Hello and good evening ,
I am in the verge ( tomorrow , is already to late in the night now to ordered it ) to order a pair of lii audio f15 .
I am thinking of putting the driver 75 cm of the floor to 80cm ,
I do think 75 due to the fact that my sitting couch is low ,
I am going to let a friend of mine build this as he is timmerman and a very good one at that ,I am thinking about building them with 3 different kind of real woods , one in the middle and darker wood for the extremes , precisely cut to the same width and glued together ,
It will be about 4 cm deep ( about 1,58 inches I think …..) and faceted like a mini horn in front , due to the fact that the driver is going to be mounted behind the baffle of course.
I have just one question that I could not understand , and would be much obliged for the help , thank you in advance.
What is the width that you have cutted the panels ? I was thinking about maximum 5 to 7 cm per side relative to where the driver ends on each side ,….so about 50 to 54 cm wide for the baffle , due to the fact that I never could understood wide baffles, as in my experience they only mess with soundstage ,and not in a good way .
I will be using Duelund 12 gauge cable to connect them to a pair of binding posts mounted on an wood block mounted behind on the foot and isolated with rubber ,
Thanks in advance once more
Sounds like a promising setup! 👍
A handyman can make the baffles and maybe stain it too. I have 0 wooden DIY skills 😛
Do you think a setup with two 15's in each panels can be driven to good levels with 25 watt tube amps?
Also are you bi amping the bass drivers on your other ones?
Yes i am biamping with the bass drivers but in separate baffles.
You mean 2x f15 drivers in the same baffle?
@@hificave I'm thinking of doing the bass 15 and the f15 on the same panel. What amp are you using for the bass drivers?
@@jerrybeute8884 crown xls for bass drivers, for built in crossover adjustments.
So did you abandon the F-15/W-15 combo?
I paired my F-15s with the SB Audience Bianco 15 and it is amazing.
Not at all, they are just in their own baffle now, and the w15 are positioned in the room to maximise bass response with less effort making the integration more seemless.
I have Thomas’ reaction to an audition of the setup. Might be in a video in the near future.
What is your opinion of the Fast-15 for this project over the F-15?
Both are good. Using the f15 means less effort to ensure quality bass from w15 at the cost of some top end extension. Fast-15 means better top end extension with more effort required form the w15 to fill in the bass.
I think many, will prefer the fast15 for it’s top end performance.
Thanks for your excellent video. Why not F18s?. You probably know those. Can you describe in a brief the main differences between F15s and F18s?
Who said not f18? I just had the f15 already.
F18 are awesome, I only had them on demo for a couple months last year. If you have the space. bolder, larger image, they just require more space. a bit warmer and more upper bass compared to f15, at the cost of speed with very complex and large orchestral music (if your picky).
@@hificave how space do the 15’s and 18’s need each?
ok i must say this we listen and wish to make it real, or making are own instrument of flavor or sound like building a piano.
They look really crazy …..wouldn’t work in my living room.
Have you heard MACO design yet?
Not yet
They're from Toronto and use granite
as the baffle. Still expensive.
@@walterpen371 yup! I know the designers. Great people.