Killing off Death and making it an inherited job was a huge mistake. Not only was it cheap and didn’t make any sense, but it also robbed the entire character's mystique.
Yes! Also Billie was cool, but nowhere NEAR the levels of OG Death. Like not even slightly close to actually having that vibe down. Which doesnt have to be a bad thing, but I still miss og death
@@Picking.a.name.is.hard1 Billie, cool? What is it about Billie exactly that made her cool? Because I find absolutely nothing cool about her at all. She nothing more than a Death knock-off. Even as reaper, she sucked, she was a Tessa knock-off. Her obsession with keeping the Winchesters dead for good was bordeline a personal vendetta with them. Death is a force of nature, he has no beef with anyone because he simply doesn't give a crap, he's Death.
@@Bardim18 It was a personal vendetta, she hated their constant dying and coming back. She wanted to fix the balance they were off setting by constantly getting killed only to be resurrected by someone else
Death always felt like what an omnipotent being should be. Every word held gravity. You felt Dean's anxiety because you knew any being that could truly frighten Dean Winchester was not one to be trifled with.
I reconcile this by believing that Death was created by the universal system (as I like to call the primordial order that governs all things including God and Amara AKA The NATURAL ORDER) as a result of Amara being locked up. The first Death was probably a sentience created to fulfil that role like God and Amara were, but unlike God and Amara, Death was only interested in their job. But as a result of being something that exists, it also needed to be something that can die. So the office of Death would exist even when Death dies. That office is inherited by a Reaper, the Angels created by Death to act as its agents. The first reaper that dies after the office is vacated, takes the office of Death. But, they have to grow into their role. They do not come pre-equipped with the mindset, experience and full power of Death. Additionally they retain their previous ego and as such seem like their former selves with a power upgrade and lack the gravitas of Death. Much like how Jack feels different from God despite having greater power seeing as he has Amara as a part of him.
I always assumed he didn’t actually die he just stepped down for a bit. Killing death never made any sense. But him taking a backseat to see how things play out before the final reaping at the end has to take place makes a lot of sense to me.
Death would have come into existence when something that could die came into existence. In other words, when the original primal force manifested into God and Amara, death came as a side effect, because they were capable of dying. I do agree the manifestation of Death as a being was God's attempt to control/limit death, because of His ego. The proof of that is the manifestation being alternate "Deaths" in the alternate universes, only things created by God would have alternate duplicates.
I always saw it as Death knew he needed to die at the hands of Dean Winchester. He allowed Dean to kill him because, in his words, "You and your brother keep coming back. You're an affront to the balance of the universe and you cause disruption at a global scale, but you have use.", and as such, he knew they were vital in his task of reaping God. This is possibly why he helped The Winchesters so much like when he got Sam's soul out of Hell or when helped them with the God Castiel issue through the Eclipse. With the death of Death, no other primordial entity was around with enough power to stop Amara/The Darkness other than Chuck/God, forcing Chuck to reveal himself to take care of Amara as no one else could. I would also like to say that I believe no reaper that became Death, like Billie, was as powerful as the original Death because the original Death was a primordial entity while his "successors" were just glorified reapers who now gained a fancy title and some extra mojo. More powerful, yes, but nowhere near as powerful as the original Death.
My view is that death is as old as first creation which was before archangels were created and Amara destroyed. He was not manifested as a conscious being but the effect created by the conflict between Amara and God. When mark of Cain was created and Amara was locked then Death created a manifestation of itself learning from how Archangels were created with the primordial essence which again in my opinion is the essence of the empty thats been filled with in Archangels case Gods light and in Deaths case the power it absorbed from the conflict between Amara and God which is why it is bound by neither the dark or light but serves as an equalizer feeding off both of them. So the First death was the equivalent of an Archangel in terms of capability to manifest its powers while the force of death can't manifest itself like god does and thus it is like god everywhere at the same time. Reapers are imitations of angels created by death to serve its manifestation and force which is why they are so similar to how angels are. Because Death was bound to creation by god it lost the ability to tap into the empty to create another primordial manifestation of itself so it had to get creative and started using reapers after its primordial manifestation was destroyed. Thats why normal reapers that Turn into death can't use all of its might. This is also how its siblings were created on earth. Similar to how Death was created by the energy created by the conflict between Amara and capital G his siblings were created as minor forces from the conflict between creation and the natural force and later death would teach them how to manifest themselves creating their rings in the process. War is the manifestation of physical violence, Pestilence is the manifestation of struggle between corruption and creation, and Hunger is the manifestation of the struggle created between creations that transfer the energy between them. We also see horseman from older to younger in order except for death. War was most likely first came to being when God started its retaliation against Amara which was after the first first creation was destroyed and the Archangels were created so it never saw how God created archangels which is why its manifestation like his siblings except death was not primordial. Then came Pestilence which is as old as first mortal creature which is well after the universe and earth was created. Then came Hunger shortly after when those creatures and pets had their energy transfers between them and in a way this ties hunger and pestilence closest in age. War and Death are much older and Death is still quite a bit older than War. After their forces first became being like this and mark was given to Lucy well the first laviathans were formed and they were so strong and driven by hunger so much that god had to luck them away. This was because Hunger was so young and tried to manifest itself through the creation before death thought it how to manifest itself. Viruses were the first manifestation attempts of Pestilence through creation and they were not as much of a nuisance. War being quite a bit older never had to manifest itself through creation. Time passed and first angels were created and then some time after first humans. Lucy never had to compare itself to angels so there was no conflict but when Humans and souls were created and God charged angels including Archangels with protection of its creation Lucy was driven by mark led a rebellion which empowered War so much so that Lucy became aware of these 4 being created by sucking up the energy from the conflict and until then only God knew of their existence. This made god vary even more and this was the reason why God actually had to lock Lucy because he would be too dangerous if he could ally itself with them but Lucy created a spell to bind them to himself through the at the time current manifestations of them. Thats where the rings came from. Because Lucy was good for business all of them aside for Death were ok with this. Death took it as an insult because unlike the other forces Death is very strong and doesn''t need extra power or extra energy to feed off. It just created more work for death whom started to like the creation which is why he explicitly goes around and eats junk food. The others only view creation as battery pills whose suffering makes them stronger. So when Lucy was locked up God used the binding Lucy created to be used as a key to the cell and made the siblings unable to come together. Ofc during the rebellion first demons and first monsters were created and I believe monsters were failed attempts of creation of demons by Lucy. That ties into how Lilith in the myth is the first wife of Adam and how Cain got the mark.
@@ozimantvDamn, that’s a better explanation than this Video, I don’t know how you came up with that but it is a very impression and well thought out explanation. Good job
@@gameover9390 Thanks. I am quite familiar with religious texts, myths and stuff like that and I just gathered the clues from the show and formed this while watching. I was just wondering if others were thinking the same.
My personal head canon is Death can't die. After Sam and Dean drove off leaving Chuck alone and mortal, OG Death appeared. Chuck was all like "You're dead!" and he's like "I AM Death, I was just playing my part to get to this point."
@@mkohlhorst If you really wanted to, you can chalk it up to covid restrictions. Julian Richings is in his late 60's and we already know how they had to cut the cameos out.
So basically in Supernatural Death is an engineer troubleshooting God's system for redundancies and keeping it running as it should and being really frustrated at God's refusal to accept this because "it was perfect to begin with and I am in charge". Go figure.
Death should've been Amara and vise versa. Death is already the antithesis of God. Satan binding Death should've set up the mark of Cain as a form of punishment that he passes onto Cain with Cain being his second deal with the devil. But the writers didn't expect to go 15 years so awesome all the same
If anything the Empty(The entity not the dimension) seems to be the incarnation of Nothingness, The literal nothing that existed before God and Amara who could be classified as The Something In my suspicion, Amara and God were the split halves of a parallel force to the Nothing known as The Something, This force was pure harmony of both Creation/Light and Destruction/Dark which was then separated into God and Amara which would then leave the Nothing to be reduced to the Empty as to keep the balance of Reality
To expand on my idea, The Nothing and The Something were both halves of an even older and even more powerful force that was originally known as The Everything, A force of nature itself that predated anything else, this truly Omnipotent Entity was then broken into halves by the necessity for creation since The Everything did not create since it was not conscious like God, Amara or The Empty itself. The Everything split into The Something and The Nothing, The Nothing slowly reverted into The Empty by age and the necessity for balance since The Something was also split into two halves by the same dependency for creation which caused Amara and God to manifest as their conceptual forms of blinding white light or inky black nothingness of a cloud of infinite black smoke. The Empty saying it was older than Amara and God also has an explanation since it wouldn't be lying, it would actually be older than them since it was the Incarnation of The Nothing before The Something broke apart into God and Amara But that's just a theory, I'd love to elaborate more if you'd be willing to listen though :3
Julien Richings was the best choice for an adaptation of the personification of Death ever put on a screen. Hands down, you cannot change my mind. Everything from his mannerisms to his facial expressions just reeks of an indignant primordial force that has a fundamental role to play in the balance of reality and can't be bothered to give two shakes of a lamb's bottom about the quarrels of mortals. Just let the dude eat his diner food ffs.
I didn't think that Death was literally a brother to the other horseman. He's on such a different level. I thought Satan basically just assembled the Horseman, and he had to ensnare Death, who's sort of a world apart. As for Chuck, I think there's one of two positions I can take. 1. Chuck is genuinely all powerful. He is "the writers", basically. That means Chuck never lost, or was never God in the truest form - in a way, it means that Chuck *is* Jack, just playing a character. This is a bit meta. 2. Chuck is not all powerful. He created the universe but is still bound by it - I think this is actually referenced at some point? I don't recall. But by creating the multiverse Chuck inherently limits himself to it - it's not just "snap my fingers and create it", he has to design it carefully, and he has to place himself within it. Chuck creates Death, and since all things die the only way to create Death is for Chuck to be 'mortal' in the ultimate sense. That's all to say that in order to create the universe Chuck had to create Death, and in order for Death to "work" Death must have power over Chuck - the least possible amount necessary, but some amount (it's not like it's easy for Death to kill Chuck)
So if I remember correctly, in the show, it was. Directly asked why God would allow hinself to be able to die. It was stated (paraphrasing here), that the way God created the vast multidimensional quantum construct that makes up the Multiverse, it required his content input to keep on running. However he found a way around this, by "writing himself into the story itself", to allow reality to just keep on "tick, tick, ticking" even if he went awol.
So your idea of Death is similar to one of the Endless from "Sandman" (one of them is Death by the way): it is a force, a process that naturally happens in the universe, and this force was shaped, personified into Mr Death. But that was just a version, an intepretation of Death as a force, and so he could be killed and replaced. I quoted Sandman because there are SO many references to Neil Gaiman works in the show (expecially to American Gods and Good Omens), so it is very likely that the writers took inspiration from it.
Think the darkness knows death, but he probably didn't have a name at that point or they didn't know what death was yet, till after she got locked away. Because they were 1 or 2 fresh beings, Death was either made by God, appeared when they did or got a conscience when they arrived or he was already there and somehow they or she didn't know, I like to think they just didn't know what death was, because their new and death wasn't born till they were, and that's why he doesn't know whos actually older, because it's was like he was "birthed" or "awaken" when they arrived he either knew his role there or learned it at a later date, especially since I don't think death was a full concept till later on, either God wiped them out of existence or he probably put things else where like the leviathans and pit demon things that lucifier didn't want out, or he had reasons, I don't think the idea of death came till God brought first life but death didn't get his full identity till then, and he came to find out he'll reap all in the end
My theory is that in the supernatural universe death has to die to reap chuck. Death isnt the end for Death or the Grand Grim reaper. Its an assencion. Death for chuck doesnt exist on the plane the reaps human souls. So he had to die or ascend to his or a truer form of death.
I think people forget one of the lines, As old as god, maybe even older, neither of us can remember. meaning that, in a way they are so old that neither ones really actually know who might be older. since its rather a concept. when life is created, death was born, So at the very least death would be as old as god for a balance. and is a personification.
it would have made so much more sense if god and death were twins instead of bringing in the darkness. because god =life and death and the. circle stays complete but if we are going by what the show established God isn't necessarily life as lfe came from him. so when he brought forth life death was created meaning Chuck is older.
4 horsemen of the apocalypse somehow weren't created by Chuck, but their entire purpose is to usher in the end of his creation... they let the whole horsemen concept get away from them
This is so much a spiritual channel as well. Because of the truth of god and existence. All this makes sense. Imagination comes from reality and vice versa… in the beginning gif wanted to know thyself and so he broke off many pieces of thyself and thus the souls was created. And god told the soul to go out and have experiences and bring back its knowledge… we are all god having different experiences. The books in the library are what in reality called the Akashic Records.. because we incarnate over and over again on this and other planets and other universes , they hold all the stored lives of that soul and all that it has been
Billie tells us (if she is to be believed) that the reason why Chuck can die is that in order to make his creation (which I guess includes the multiverse) he had to build himself into it and that is why he can die, otherwise, he would be completely immortal. Of course, I'm not sure how that applies to Amara, unless somehow he was able to pull her into it as well. He was able to imprison her with the help of his strongest creations (the Arch Angels), so it seems like if given enough time Chuck can overwhelm Amara, but she is still deadly enough to hit him with a lethal blow if she has enough desire (and opportunity) to do that. I like some of our theories, but I don't think the ones about Death really hold up to scrutiny. Death is probably just another agent of Chucks creation sadly, and is more of a title with power granted by the ring and scythe to a reaper. OG Death was probably the first reaper created. Also, we see Chuck destroy characters in a way that seems profoundly different than when he summons an environmental effect to end them. He seems to "unmake" a few characters, which I would imagine would totally remove them from existence, not just end their bodily life.
I genuinely feel bad for the actress who played Billie. Julian Richings OG Death is absolutely impossible to replace. She truly had shoes to fill that just couldn’t be filled by anyone. He was by far the most interesting character Supernatural ever produced.
Death CAN travel to other universes and follow god because billie herself said that she visited one of chuck worlds while destroying it in episode 16 of season 15
Nice theory . What you didn t mention is that Death second and last avatar were a lot weaker than his first.( First Avatar no one could kill him except his own weapon. Billie was killed by the Shahdow ( Who is canon that is weaker than God). And the third avatar Lucy snap him like nothing. Probably is about age ? And how about The Shadow ? How did you think he came to being ?
Well I think, oddly this might be explainable with a question I had, that also seemed to contradict the theory - atleast at first thought. I wondered... If death as a being, and force was necessary, specifically because of Amara being locked away? Then, why is there a new death... At all, after she's free? Maybe the reason that they're weaker is because they aren't really as much of a fundamental force anymore. The darkness is free, and the "natural order" of the universe is beginning to come back into balance. The role that death (the being) served, is now "slowly" returning to the state, of being an extension of amara. Which she may not even notice.
@@caseyriley1014That would explain why Amara become more protective over creation, it would also explain why bille wanted to kill both chuck and Amara and how she could have filled the power vacuum Edit: also the shadow in his theory was implied to be the avatar of the empty which is non existence, remember in his theory non existence and existence where once one but became separated
Goinng along with your Natural order theory I also believe and its kind of touched on here and there in the series that God isn't as all powerful as he likes to make himself appear otherwise it makes no sense how Jack could steal his powers spell or no spell. There are just too many moments where his omnipresnece doesn't work for it to truly be written off as arrogant. Like Sam and Dean had been trying to get rid of the mark for a while wh didn't he intervene more directly the way he did when Amara finally showed herself? I think its like you said there's the natural order or a being even chuck and amara have to answer too and it doesn't have a manifestation like everything else because it is the universe itself. In that the universe wants to be created and Chuck was what had enough power to do it and so when he created the universe he bound himself and in some part his sister to it (that would explain why they keep implying that Amara has the edge over chuck in terms of raw power shes not bound to the universe in the same way he is because see exists almost outside of it) and so just like the nothingness spawned chcuk and amara life wad created and so to fulfill its own needs Death was created so they're like cousins if anything and as the universe became more complex more complex manifestations (War, Pestilence and Famine) arouse to meet the demands. I think that kind of makes sense but it does function with the idea that those alternate universes arent actually universes but just the parts chuck created and they all existed in the larger universe that created Chuck. I think that would simplify everything.
Of course chuck isn’t all powerful/omnipotent, I’m starting to think that very few people understand how omnipotence works. No one in supernatural is omnipotent, but you are right when you said chuck only likes to apper that way because it implied many times by his character, to him it’s ego or a lie he tells others and himself to feel safe.
I always preferred the idea of reapers being the highest level of ghost. Basically ghosts that stayed behind and became evil spirits have the chance of becoming reapers. Since they would truly know the repercussions of spirits staying behind after death.
One of the biggest issues of this show is showing these very ultra cosmically powerful entities then making a rather ,unfortunately simple way to "kill" them, even for a human, I get that Dean and Sam were thee ,"hero characters" but they were still just human, and every time they went up against Death and even Lucifer they with the exception of the alternate Arch Angel "Michael " possessing Dean to finally actually kill Lucifer. The winchesters are still just human so the whole "explanation " of them "killing " these cosmic entities just because they are the "hero characters " is quite flimsy and a bit shallow, now that being said it is still one of the best shows in years.
I heavily disagree, death the entity is multiversal, and that death is an inherent part pf reality itself, yeah we see a set of twins in chuck and amara, but why does there only need to be one, I believe death and the empty are themselves also twins but neither can fully die, the empty was as it said asleep until jack unintentionally woke it up, cuz its original counter part wasn’t there anymore, afterall billy as the new death promised she would let it sleep again, the empty is nihilism incarnated, it literally is the state of not existence an even more permanent version of death, and death is the only thing that can bring peace to the empty, they are fundamental to the university and thus permanently tied to everything, thats why chuck and amara can die and we are never told they be replaced when x dies but death can die but not permanently cuz its the walking embodiment of an action think of it like the endless in the dc comics you can kill an aspect of them but you can’t get rid of them cuz thats like trying to get rid of numbers in the universe
Except in season 13 AU Michael said that in his world he locked Death away. So unless Death can exist and co-exist in two universes at the same time unless a powerful reaper was what Michael sealed away.
@@90CJk except you seem to forget supernatural is a retcon nightmare, but ok why do we never meet or hear any alternative deaths, sure Billy and that other lady replaced death but there was still only ever 1 death at a time we ever meet, and that only happens with the multiversal characters like chuck amara and the empty, plus how would billy as death would know of how much or how far along was chuck into the destruction of the alternative universes, and chucks death book is in her library, and why would the empty itself go to her library cuz apparently billy could in theory help it sleep so why not go to any other version of death and ask them to do it, even if she was lying the empty seemed to think she would be able to help it sleep, if death is universal not multiversal, then there would be other libraries, and if billy has chucks book wouldn’t by default any other version of death also have one? Why wouldn’t it just go to one of the other universes, theres only 1 death (at a time) and theres only 1 library with 1 set of books Not to mention do you not consider the fact that chuck takes death everywhere he goes, cuz for a moment disregard the hole multiverse thing, when amara was introduced it was stated that chuck created the archangels in order to help him lock her away, our reality is not the first or last, might be chucks favorite but its not the prime earth, chuck created countless versions of them who all probably believed that they helped him lock her up, Everything until the introduction of the multiverse is written with the assumption that it was just one, which leads me back to what I started with, dod you forget the supernatural is a retcon nightmare? That genuinely had no long term plans and was making shit up season to season after season 5 which is why theres so many retcons and continuity errors throughout the entire series
@@90CJk matter a fact in the entire series pre jacks birth there is only 1 thing that ever even implies theres more than 1 universe and they forget about that concept until they ran out of ideas
@@edwinjusto5739 The person is just pointing out that within the context of the shows very incoherent universe your theory is flawed especially because the world seemed to exist for a while with no embodiment until billie died and since it took that long for a reaper to die that probably means they don't die very easily or few people actually know or want to kill them. meaning the universe could exist without the embodiment of death for figuratively forever if no reaper is killed (because they don't die of old age) so like it would have been one thing if people simply weren't dying when killed or so like in the one myth about Thanatos being kidnapped but the world seemed to be chugging along fine. But in the context of a better show your theory is very good
While the show was going on, I always suspected that Death was actually OG God. Just somehow trapped in the role of death by Chuck and Amara. On the seventh day when God rested Chuck and Amara trapped him. Then when Dean killed him it broke the spell and set him free. Hence why the job of death was a fillable position, it was a designed structure of the universe. But used as a cage/trap for the real God. The reason the Universe would end if chuck or Amara dies would have been the spell on God making him forget and be Death would end and they suspected he would wipe out everything Chuck had tainted. I was kind of disappointed with how it turned out. But hey stories unfold the way they do. It is not always roses and fan service. At least SN was never boring.
If you ever come across death good food is a good way to stop him from immediately killing you because us primordial beings can't get enough of great food
OG Death definitely is the middle ground between chuck and Amara food taste, Chuck only eats fast food and take out where’s Amara was mainly interested in quality food. Death was interred in food taste quality but was still mainly junk. Edit: IDK if it’s a male thing but if I was powerful entity who could eat whatever I want regardless of health, then I be…..basically what I am now but more control in but also less care
When you were speaking about deaths ring beong a sort of... Trap. To blend in,ive had a theory on the cars of the horsemen. Each car that the horseman own is their horse. They just take the form of a car to blend in
This was Incredible Masterpiece for Death/The Pale Horseman. I never saw Death as a Villain I only saw him as an Ancient Primordial Being just doing his job. Julian Richings will always Supernatural’s Death and I always despise that Death was Killed off. Billie was a Fine Replacement and Lisa Berry did a Fantastic Job.
If you go the vedic route.. Death being Yama and GD being Shani dev are brothers with their dad being Surya dev, The sun. With Shani being the elder brother. Elder derived from El, one of the Hebrew names for Hashem.
I believe that when Amara was locked away, Death was created to keep the balance of life and death since God was obviously life and Amara (the darkness) was destruction or in her case death
Amara consumes, rather than destroy ... She's her own universe if you will ... When some1 dies, they go either to hell, heaven, purgatory or the empty (depending on what they were when they died) ... When Amara kills something, it feeds on their soul, grace, essence, making that thing one with herself
I love when fans actually THINK about the stuff the writers 100% just wrote bc they needed to forward the plot and it sounded cool! Its my favourite thing ! These videos are amazing!
OG Death went into Lucifer's cage and basically restrained the 2 strongest Archangels in the series, and he did it without any fear or hesitation. Showing that he was not even slightly worry about them, Billie never got that powerful. Like Lucifer even kills a Reaper who inherits death's position from Billie. So its safe to say that, the Reaper does NOT inherits death's power. Just his position and and knowledge.
Death most likely came into existence at the same moment as god. As soon as creation and life existed, the end of life and creation had to exist too. This is the cosmic scale of supernatural. On one side you have Life, and Light. And on the other you have Death, and Darkness. They balance each other perfectly.
Theres another question about death. If death (the person) was there before god and upon death, his powers and status is passed to the next reaper... how do we know if death (the person) was the first death?
The Scythe is designed by the new Death so it appears however the current Death wants it to, as far as being able to Kill anything I believe it can it’s probably a last resort option for Death to take out more powerful beings who could overrule his natural powers and as such comes with the job. It’s something Chuck would add for a little spark of danger for himself and totally forget about too lmao
I think when Chuck created souls he used a part of his existence. Chuck said he was sick to his stomach. But doing so hollowed him out. He had writers block, but the rest of creation went in. He went mad, and wanted to wipe it out. All he did was unwind worlds not destroy them all the way, that’s why Jack can bring them back.
I like a lot of what you have here. In my opinion though there should only be one Death. I don’t like that they made it so there were multiple and it doesn’t really make sense because God, Amara and Death are the only characters capable of multiverse travel but for some reason there are multiple deaths. Doesn’t make sense. I think there should be 3 siblings. Light (Chuck), Darkness (Amara m) and Death.
Supernatural takes a lot of from American Gods and Vertigo comics in general (Castiels trench coat is taken from Constantine, etc). Neil Gaiman wrote American Gods and Sandman which both operate on the same rules as far as how the pagans work. I’d like to think that Death (if not all four horsemen) act like the Endless from Sandman- one of which is death. They just exist naturally and supersede gods. In the Lucifer comic he creates a new universe and Death is already there. At first Lucifer thinks it’s the Death from the universe he was just in but no it’s this new universes Death. SPOILERS FOR SANDMAN BELOW Billy taking over as Death also makes me think of Morpheus dying and being replaced by Daniel Hall as Dream. Dream himself cannot die but the personality manifesting the concept can.
I never liked the new Death. The original was just so creepy and in control, meanwhile Billie just felt like another character, rather than some imposing primordial being. The original Death made you feel like he could stand toe-to-toe with God and Lucifer and not bat an eye while talking down to them
So what happened when Jack took Chuck's ""power"?? Amara is his twin, would she still be as loyal to him without any power like she was to Crowley?? lmao Or would she now be linked to Jack as he has God's power and "essence"...right?... I'm not sure, I'm confused lmao
When Death said hes as old as God, i would think they came to exist at the same time. When God and Amara came to exist into the "Nothing" then there was something that could and will die, so Death at that point also existed. And when he said he will also reap God an turn of the light, i belive that after God there is nothing more to reap except himself..thats what turning off the light means.
I have not watched every season of Supernatural so I might lack some canon info. But what I wonder as a result from your video is: what even if death in the serious (the lower case d aka the primoridal? concept). If we look at the "deaths" happening in the series, we have quite a few different processes accredited with that term. 1. The normal "death" aka human dies and soul goes to heavon or hell (or stays as a ghost). Here, the job of Death as done by his reapers is to bring the souls towards their destination dimension. I assume similar for monsters and purgatory. 2. The "death" of angels (and afaik demons). We do not know whether reapers are involved in this process. We only know that they end up in the empty under the watch of the shadow. 3. End of existence. From what you said in this video, something attributed to Amara. Now, If we look at this, all evidence we have point to death only affecting souls. And all it does to them is transfering them from one dimension to another. Or maybe it also "disentangles" the soul from their body. The shadow seems to be something entirely different from Death, considering these two fight later on. And Amara is obviously something else, too. If the phenomenon of death is not more that the translocation of a soul then this leaves us with 1. it was created by the one who created souls (either actively or inadvertenly). Considering that beings that posess such a soul came after Amara, God, the angels, and the arch-angels, this would imply that even the concept of death is predated by these entities. Let alone the personification of it. In this case, God clearly predates Death and has created him/her/it in every sense. 2. If we follow your theory that God does not really "create" things from scratch, but merely brings into existence things that are already there in some non-existing sense it could have non-existed as long as ever other concept in the "natural order". This leads us to the interesting question about what souls are and where they come from. It can be assumed that God has only limited power over them, as he once stated that he could not restore a destroyed soul. Assuming he was not lying, this means that souls are something very special even within all the other special things in the world of supernatural. And this natural order is in essence the natural order FOR SOULS. Which might entail that even God cannot bind them to a part of his creation for eternity. Which, at the moment he creates the first entity that has a soul also brings the concept of death from non-existence into existence. And may also create Death the entity. Something I thought about just now, Death claims in the beginning that he will also claim God at some point. Considering that God basicly became mortal at the end of the series, this is true, even if God did not have a soul at the beginning. Maybe he has one then.
I believe Death was a job, not an entity. It came with some benefits and powers but we see in the show that the powers granted by the position of being Death are not all that. Lucifer was able to easily kill a new Death for example. OG Death was a true primordial, which comes with its own powers which far outshine the juice granted by the position alone. Recall the meeting between Dean and OG Death that leads to Dean killing him? There is a point during that exchange where Death suggests he can relocate Dean somewhere off-world where he can't be a danger to others. If you watch OG Death's facial expression while he says this, it's quite clear he's got some other agenda, he's scheming something. I believe it was at this point he'd realized he had a way out. He'd be perfectly capable of moving Dean somewhere that Sam would have zero chance of getting Dean back, his insistence on destroying Sam was pretext, he WANTED Dean to kill him, think about it. Why would a hyper intelligent, near omnipotent being hand Dean Winchester the only thing in creation that can destroy him, and then threaten his brother? That is a ROYALLY dumb move unless you want to die. I reckon OG Death can't die, but being "destroyed" like that released him from the POSITION of death, which is what he wanted. He's still around somewhere.
What would have made perfect sense was that when Dean dies he should have assumed the mantle of death because he was the one that killed the original death all the Reapers that assumed the mantle were just Temporaries until the time when the true vessel of death Dean would have assumed
God is nearly the same age, but neither can remember. But Amara does not recall knowing of Death. Either Death was alive during Amara's Era and simply kept away from her. Or Death was created/born after she was sealed away, and if you consider the second choice, perhaps God saw a need to Balance out Creativity and Destruction, Life and Death, and created Death for the purpose of maintaining some sort of End. Existence is the cycle of Life and Death, a Constant, a never ending cycle.
Billy didn't know Dean would kill her. Death didn't know Dean would kill him. Does death not have a death book, or does deaths "being" combine with every new death, and he's actually the only immortal?
Death might be an accidental creation. When the (Supernatural) Universe manifested into two beings, one force to create as many things as possible and one to keep everything as one, then the existence of the two might have created a third by accident. Let's just say Supernatural-God created the first living things and just as he says, Amara instantly began to destroy these things, then Amara might have created Death in that moment. Something like: "With the destruction of the first creation Death was born." - Some Random Stuff if you're interested: Death in Supernatural is based on the old and classic depiction of a "Ferryman". Not evil, not good. Just someone who keeps the world in balance. And it works really well, he is by far the best depicition of a supernatural deity in Supernatural. The "Ferryman"-Myth itself is also kinda old and has many different origins which may or may not be related. There's the commonly known Greek origin, with Charon bringing the dead over the River Styx. Another now famous one would be Ancient Egyptian Anubis, though Egyptian Mythology divides this role into two characters, of which one is of course Anubis and the other I don't know the name of, but the there was actually also a boat carrying the dead. Egyptian Mythologie is also often considered to be the main source of origin for Greek Mythology. But there's also a Norse origin. We all know the story of the Valkyries bringing the honorable dead to the Afterlife, but an even older Norse tale is actually Odin clothed in a grey cloak and hood, wielding a staff to lean on, though not needing it, bringing the dead from the land of the living to the realms beyond. Yes, that is one of Odins ancient roles. (Small Sidenote: This is also the origin of the classic wizards look, which is usually connected with Merlin, but Merlin himself is in the legend an advocate of the old ways. In that sense, Merlin fits very well as a disguise for Odin. At least it is not unlikely that Merlin is based on old Odin depictions.) It doesn't end there of course, Mesoptomian, Mesoamerican and various Asien Mythologies also have some form of a "Ferryman of the Dead"-character type. It seems to a consistent theme that there's someone or something that merely carries the souls of the dead from one realm into another. Sometimes that Ferryman is also in charge of checking whether a soul is worthy, sometimes a different character is in charge of that. But, they all have in common that they are not malicious or good. They are kinda always just doing a job. Doing what they are meant to do, without ill-intend or favoritism. Everyone is the same in their eyes, even gods. As another Sidenote, this theme of Death being a core part of Balance is also transferred into gaming. The Necromancers from both the Heroes of Might and Magic series and from the Diablo series are tasked with keeping the world in balance. They are not an evil force, even though in-world often perceived as one, they are in truth just the force between. And whenever souls cannot rest or too many are being taken, they investigate and solve the problem. I always preferred this depiction of Necromancers. It is easy to show them as inherently evil, but them being actually a truly neutral force makes them so much more interesting.
Who made up these rules? That's simple. If Chuck and Amara and brother and sister, that would mean they have parents. And I would think since the rule is "the natural order", the answer is obvious. Mother Nature.
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Death's intro was the best of the entire series! So perfect
Killing off Death and making it an inherited job was a huge mistake. Not only was it cheap and didn’t make any sense, but it also robbed the entire character's mystique.
Adventure Time did the killing off Death thing better
Yes! Also Billie was cool, but nowhere NEAR the levels of OG Death. Like not even slightly close to actually having that vibe down.
Which doesnt have to be a bad thing, but I still miss og death
@@Picking.a.name.is.hard1 Billie, cool? What is it about Billie exactly that made her cool? Because I find absolutely nothing cool about her at all. She nothing more than a Death knock-off. Even as reaper, she sucked, she was a Tessa knock-off. Her obsession with keeping the Winchesters dead for good was bordeline a personal vendetta with them. Death is a force of nature, he has no beef with anyone because he simply doesn't give a crap, he's Death.
@@Bardim18 Wears a leather jacket and is hot. Thats all I got. I dont have deeper reasoning I just think she looks cool🤷
@@Bardim18 It was a personal vendetta, she hated their constant dying and coming back. She wanted to fix the balance they were off setting by constantly getting killed only to be resurrected by someone else
Death always felt like what an omnipotent being should be. Every word held gravity. You felt Dean's anxiety because you knew any being that could truly frighten Dean Winchester was not one to be trifled with.
I reconcile this by believing that Death was created by the universal system (as I like to call the primordial order that governs all things including God and Amara AKA The NATURAL ORDER) as a result of Amara being locked up. The first Death was probably a sentience created to fulfil that role like God and Amara were, but unlike God and Amara, Death was only interested in their job.
But as a result of being something that exists, it also needed to be something that can die. So the office of Death would exist even when Death dies. That office is inherited by a Reaper, the Angels created by Death to act as its agents. The first reaper that dies after the office is vacated, takes the office of Death. But, they have to grow into their role. They do not come pre-equipped with the mindset, experience and full power of Death. Additionally they retain their previous ego and as such seem like their former selves with a power upgrade and lack the gravitas of Death.
Much like how Jack feels different from God despite having greater power seeing as he has Amara as a part of him.
I always assumed he didn’t actually die he just stepped down for a bit. Killing death never made any sense. But him taking a backseat to see how things play out before the final reaping at the end has to take place makes a lot of sense to me.
Death would have come into existence when something that could die came into existence. In other words, when the original primal force manifested into God and Amara, death came as a side effect, because they were capable of dying.
I do agree the manifestation of Death as a being was God's attempt to control/limit death, because of His ego. The proof of that is the manifestation being alternate "Deaths" in the alternate universes, only things created by God would have alternate duplicates.
I always saw it as Death knew he needed to die at the hands of Dean Winchester. He allowed Dean to kill him because, in his words, "You and your brother keep coming back. You're an affront to the balance of the universe and you cause disruption at a global scale, but you have use.", and as such, he knew they were vital in his task of reaping God. This is possibly why he helped The Winchesters so much like when he got Sam's soul out of Hell or when helped them with the God Castiel issue through the Eclipse. With the death of Death, no other primordial entity was around with enough power to stop Amara/The Darkness other than Chuck/God, forcing Chuck to reveal himself to take care of Amara as no one else could.
I would also like to say that I believe no reaper that became Death, like Billie, was as powerful as the original Death because the original Death was a primordial entity while his "successors" were just glorified reapers who now gained a fancy title and some extra mojo. More powerful, yes, but nowhere near as powerful as the original Death.
Death was playing chess while God was playing checkers
My view is that death is as old as first creation which was before archangels were created and Amara destroyed. He was not manifested as a conscious being but the effect created by the conflict between Amara and God. When mark of Cain was created and Amara was locked then Death created a manifestation of itself learning from how Archangels were created with the primordial essence which again in my opinion is the essence of the empty thats been filled with in Archangels case Gods light and in Deaths case the power it absorbed from the conflict between Amara and God which is why it is bound by neither the dark or light but serves as an equalizer feeding off both of them. So the First death was the equivalent of an Archangel in terms of capability to manifest its powers while the force of death can't manifest itself like god does and thus it is like god everywhere at the same time.
Reapers are imitations of angels created by death to serve its manifestation and force which is why they are so similar to how angels are. Because Death was bound to creation by god it lost the ability to tap into the empty to create another primordial manifestation of itself so it had to get creative and started using reapers after its primordial manifestation was destroyed. Thats why normal reapers that Turn into death can't use all of its might. This is also how its siblings were created on earth. Similar to how Death was created by the energy created by the conflict between Amara and capital G his siblings were created as minor forces from the conflict between creation and the natural force and later death would teach them how to manifest themselves creating their rings in the process. War is the manifestation of physical violence, Pestilence is the manifestation of struggle between corruption and creation, and Hunger is the manifestation of the struggle created between creations that transfer the energy between them. We also see horseman from older to younger in order except for death. War was most likely first came to being when God started its retaliation against Amara which was after the first first creation was destroyed and the Archangels were created so it never saw how God created archangels which is why its manifestation like his siblings except death was not primordial. Then came Pestilence which is as old as first mortal creature which is well after the universe and earth was created. Then came Hunger shortly after when those creatures and pets had their energy transfers between them and in a way this ties hunger and pestilence closest in age. War and Death are much older and Death is still quite a bit older than War.
After their forces first became being like this and mark was given to Lucy well the first laviathans were formed and they were so strong and driven by hunger so much that god had to luck them away. This was because Hunger was so young and tried to manifest itself through the creation before death thought it how to manifest itself. Viruses were the first manifestation attempts of Pestilence through creation and they were not as much of a nuisance. War being quite a bit older never had to manifest itself through creation. Time passed and first angels were created and then some time after first humans. Lucy never had to compare itself to angels so there was no conflict but when Humans and souls were created and God charged angels including Archangels with protection of its creation Lucy was driven by mark led a rebellion which empowered War so much so that Lucy became aware of these 4 being created by sucking up the energy from the conflict and until then only God knew of their existence. This made god vary even more and this was the reason why God actually had to lock Lucy because he would be too dangerous if he could ally itself with them but Lucy created a spell to bind them to himself through the at the time current manifestations of them. Thats where the rings came from. Because Lucy was good for business all of them aside for Death were ok with this. Death took it as an insult because unlike the other forces Death is very strong and doesn''t need extra power or extra energy to feed off. It just created more work for death whom started to like the creation which is why he explicitly goes around and eats junk food. The others only view creation as battery pills whose suffering makes them stronger. So when Lucy was locked up God used the binding Lucy created to be used as a key to the cell and made the siblings unable to come together. Ofc during the rebellion first demons and first monsters were created and I believe monsters were failed attempts of creation of demons by Lucy. That ties into how Lilith in the myth is the first wife of Adam and how Cain got the mark.
@@ozimantvDamn, that’s a better explanation than this Video, I don’t know how you came up with that but it is a very impression and well thought out explanation. Good job
@@gameover9390 Thanks. I am quite familiar with religious texts, myths and stuff like that and I just gathered the clues from the show and formed this while watching. I was just wondering if others were thinking the same.
So the death ring is essentially a green lantern ring. When the original holder dies. It seeks out a new host
My personal head canon is Death can't die. After Sam and Dean drove off leaving Chuck alone and mortal, OG Death appeared. Chuck was all like "You're dead!" and he's like "I AM Death, I was just playing my part to get to this point."
Did that happen? Can't remember
@@ebuobasintui988 No, unfortunately. But in my head it'd make it a hundred times better.
@@mkohlhorst I agree
That's awesome.
@@mkohlhorst If you really wanted to, you can chalk it up to covid restrictions. Julian Richings is in his late 60's and we already know how they had to cut the cameos out.
So basically in Supernatural Death is an engineer troubleshooting God's system for redundancies and keeping it running as it should and being really frustrated at God's refusal to accept this because "it was perfect to begin with and I am in charge". Go figure.
Death should've been Amara and vise versa. Death is already the antithesis of God. Satan binding Death should've set up the mark of Cain as a form of punishment that he passes onto Cain with Cain being his second deal with the devil. But the writers didn't expect to go 15 years so awesome all the same
It even says in the show that God wrote himself into the story and that's when his book came into existence
If anything the Empty(The entity not the dimension) seems to be the incarnation of Nothingness, The literal nothing that existed before God and Amara who could be classified as The Something
In my suspicion, Amara and God were the split halves of a parallel force to the Nothing known as The Something, This force was pure harmony of both Creation/Light and Destruction/Dark which was then separated into God and Amara which would then leave the Nothing to be reduced to the Empty as to keep the balance of Reality
To expand on my idea, The Nothing and The Something were both halves of an even older and even more powerful force that was originally known as The Everything, A force of nature itself that predated anything else, this truly Omnipotent Entity was then broken into halves by the necessity for creation since The Everything did not create since it was not conscious like God, Amara or The Empty itself.
The Everything split into The Something and The Nothing, The Nothing slowly reverted into The Empty by age and the necessity for balance since The Something was also split into two halves by the same dependency for creation which caused Amara and God to manifest as their conceptual forms of blinding white light or inky black nothingness of a cloud of infinite black smoke.
The Empty saying it was older than Amara and God also has an explanation since it wouldn't be lying, it would actually be older than them since it was the Incarnation of The Nothing before The Something broke apart into God and Amara
But that's just a theory, I'd love to elaborate more if you'd be willing to listen though :3
That makes sense good theory 👍
@@chasethemaster3440 It's something I've evolved further but yeah, it helps evaluate the different between God, Death, Life and the Darkness
Julien Richings was the best choice for an adaptation of the personification of Death ever put on a screen. Hands down, you cannot change my mind. Everything from his mannerisms to his facial expressions just reeks of an indignant primordial force that has a fundamental role to play in the balance of reality and can't be bothered to give two shakes of a lamb's bottom about the quarrels of mortals. Just let the dude eat his diner food ffs.
I didn't think that Death was literally a brother to the other horseman. He's on such a different level. I thought Satan basically just assembled the Horseman, and he had to ensnare Death, who's sort of a world apart.
As for Chuck, I think there's one of two positions I can take.
1. Chuck is genuinely all powerful. He is "the writers", basically. That means Chuck never lost, or was never God in the truest form - in a way, it means that Chuck *is* Jack, just playing a character. This is a bit meta.
2. Chuck is not all powerful. He created the universe but is still bound by it - I think this is actually referenced at some point? I don't recall. But by creating the multiverse Chuck inherently limits himself to it - it's not just "snap my fingers and create it", he has to design it carefully, and he has to place himself within it. Chuck creates Death, and since all things die the only way to create Death is for Chuck to be 'mortal' in the ultimate sense. That's all to say that in order to create the universe Chuck had to create Death, and in order for Death to "work" Death must have power over Chuck - the least possible amount necessary, but some amount (it's not like it's easy for Death to kill Chuck)
Dude I just rewatched part 1 about god and amara yesterday!!! I freakin love your content superfanatural!!! Keep up the awesome videos
So if I remember correctly, in the show, it was. Directly asked why God would allow hinself to be able to die. It was stated (paraphrasing here), that the way God created the vast multidimensional quantum construct that makes up the Multiverse, it required his content input to keep on running. However he found a way around this, by "writing himself into the story itself", to allow reality to just keep on "tick, tick, ticking" even if he went awol.
So your idea of Death is similar to one of the Endless from "Sandman" (one of them is Death by the way): it is a force, a process that naturally happens in the universe, and this force was shaped, personified into Mr Death. But that was just a version, an intepretation of Death as a force, and so he could be killed and replaced.
I quoted Sandman because there are SO many references to Neil Gaiman works in the show (expecially to American Gods and Good Omens), so it is very likely that the writers took inspiration from it.
Neat
Coldest character intro ever
I'm your 795 subscriber. You clearly put some real work into your videos so I very much look forward to seeing you grow.
"Nah sorry G, can't do that, nailed it" Nailed it.
... ..."plus, there was that time you stood me up." - Death
Think the darkness knows death, but he probably didn't have a name at that point or they didn't know what death was yet, till after she got locked away. Because they were 1 or 2 fresh beings, Death was either made by God, appeared when they did or got a conscience when they arrived or he was already there and somehow they or she didn't know, I like to think they just didn't know what death was, because their new and death wasn't born till they were, and that's why he doesn't know whos actually older, because it's was like he was "birthed" or "awaken" when they arrived he either knew his role there or learned it at a later date, especially since I don't think death was a full concept till later on, either God wiped them out of existence or he probably put things else where like the leviathans and pit demon things that lucifier didn't want out, or he had reasons, I don't think the idea of death came till God brought first life but death didn't get his full identity till then, and he came to find out he'll reap all in the end
My theory is that in the supernatural universe death has to die to reap chuck. Death isnt the end for Death or the Grand Grim reaper. Its an assencion. Death for chuck doesnt exist on the plane the reaps human souls. So he had to die or ascend to his or a truer form of death.
I think people forget one of the lines, As old as god, maybe even older, neither of us can remember. meaning that, in a way they are so old that neither ones really actually know who might be older. since its rather a concept. when life is created, death was born, So at the very least death would be as old as god for a balance. and is a personification.
it would have made so much more sense if god and death were twins instead of bringing in the darkness. because god =life and death and the. circle stays complete but if we are going by what the show established God isn't necessarily life as lfe came from him. so when he brought forth life death was created meaning Chuck is older.
Imagine Adventure Time had a better send off for Death
4 horsemen of the apocalypse somehow weren't created by Chuck, but their entire purpose is to usher in the end of his creation... they let the whole horsemen concept get away from them
This is so much a spiritual channel as well. Because of the truth of god and existence. All this makes sense. Imagination comes from reality and vice versa… in the beginning gif wanted to know thyself and so he broke off many pieces of thyself and thus the souls was created. And god told the soul to go out and have experiences and bring back its knowledge… we are all god having different experiences. The books in the library are what in reality called the Akashic Records.. because we incarnate over and over again on this and other planets and other universes , they hold all the stored lives of that soul and all that it has been
The show writers must be Terry Pratchett fans.
I think Death was created once life was created. The question is if that started once the twins came into being or before them in the nothingness
Billie tells us (if she is to be believed) that the reason why Chuck can die is that in order to make his creation (which I guess includes the multiverse) he had to build himself into it and that is why he can die, otherwise, he would be completely immortal. Of course, I'm not sure how that applies to Amara, unless somehow he was able to pull her into it as well. He was able to imprison her with the help of his strongest creations (the Arch Angels), so it seems like if given enough time Chuck can overwhelm Amara, but she is still deadly enough to hit him with a lethal blow if she has enough desire (and opportunity) to do that.
I like some of our theories, but I don't think the ones about Death really hold up to scrutiny. Death is probably just another agent of Chucks creation sadly, and is more of a title with power granted by the ring and scythe to a reaper. OG Death was probably the first reaper created.
Also, we see Chuck destroy characters in a way that seems profoundly different than when he summons an environmental effect to end them. He seems to "unmake" a few characters, which I would imagine would totally remove them from existence, not just end their bodily life.
Love your videos. You should probably do a supernatural power rank by individuals
I genuinely feel bad for the actress who played Billie. Julian Richings OG Death is absolutely impossible to replace. She truly had shoes to fill that just couldn’t be filled by anyone. He was by far the most interesting character Supernatural ever produced.
Julian Richings is the only Death.
Death CAN travel to other universes and follow god because billie herself said that she visited one of chuck worlds while destroying it in episode 16 of season 15
And Alternate Michael said he enslaved his Death
@@remingtonbouyeri think you have it slightly off michael said they imprisoned death and enslaved the reapers.
Nice theory . What you didn t mention is that Death second and last avatar were a lot weaker than his first.( First Avatar no one could kill him except his own weapon. Billie was killed by the Shahdow ( Who is canon that is weaker than God). And the third avatar Lucy snap him like nothing. Probably is about age ?
And how about The Shadow ? How did you think he came to being ?
Well I think, oddly this might be explainable with a question I had, that also seemed to contradict the theory - atleast at first thought.
I wondered... If death as a being, and force was necessary, specifically because of Amara being locked away? Then, why is there a new death... At all, after she's free?
Maybe the reason that they're weaker is because they aren't really as much of a fundamental force anymore.
The darkness is free, and the "natural order" of the universe is beginning to come back into balance.
The role that death (the being) served, is now "slowly" returning to the state, of being an extension of amara. Which she may not even notice.
@@caseyriley1014That would explain why Amara become more protective over creation, it would also explain why bille wanted to kill both chuck and Amara and how she could have filled the power vacuum
Edit: also the shadow in his theory was implied to be the avatar of the empty which is non existence, remember in his theory non existence and existence where once one but became separated
Chuck and Amara are dueling siblings, Death is the uncle who is bored from their behaviour.
This is an awesome channel .
Goinng along with your Natural order theory I also believe and its kind of touched on here and there in the series that God isn't as all powerful as he likes to make himself appear otherwise it makes no sense how Jack could steal his powers spell or no spell. There are just too many moments where his omnipresnece doesn't work for it to truly be written off as arrogant. Like Sam and Dean had been trying to get rid of the mark for a while wh didn't he intervene more directly the way he did when Amara finally showed herself? I think its like you said there's the natural order or a being even chuck and amara have to answer too and it doesn't have a manifestation like everything else because it is the universe itself. In that the universe wants to be created and Chuck was what had enough power to do it and so when he created the universe he bound himself and in some part his sister to it (that would explain why they keep implying that Amara has the edge over chuck in terms of raw power shes not bound to the universe in the same way he is because see exists almost outside of it) and so just like the nothingness spawned chcuk and amara life wad created and so to fulfill its own needs Death was created so they're like cousins if anything and as the universe became more complex more complex manifestations (War, Pestilence and Famine) arouse to meet the demands. I think that kind of makes sense but it does function with the idea that those alternate universes arent actually universes but just the parts chuck created and they all existed in the larger universe that created Chuck. I think that would simplify everything.
Of course chuck isn’t all powerful/omnipotent, I’m starting to think that very few people understand how omnipotence works. No one in supernatural is omnipotent, but you are right when you said chuck only likes to apper that way because it implied many times by his character, to him it’s ego or a lie he tells others and himself to feel safe.
Death was probably made at the same time Amara had been imprisoned, her will of destruction made whole.
What if death was apart if amara and when she was trapped she let little of her destructive power out so it wouldn't be trapped with her
I always preferred the idea of reapers being the highest level of ghost.
Basically ghosts that stayed behind and became evil spirits have the chance of becoming reapers. Since they would truly know the repercussions of spirits staying behind after death.
your channel should be in like the top3 of Supernatural fandom explanations. well done!!
One of the biggest issues of this show is showing these very ultra cosmically powerful entities then making a rather ,unfortunately simple way to "kill" them, even for a human, I get that Dean and Sam were thee ,"hero characters" but they were still just human, and every time they went up against Death and even Lucifer they with the exception of the alternate Arch Angel "Michael " possessing Dean to finally actually kill Lucifer. The winchesters are still just human so the whole "explanation " of them "killing " these cosmic entities just because they are the "hero characters " is quite flimsy and a bit shallow, now that being said it is still one of the best shows in years.
I think Death is by far the Most powerful of the four horsemen!
I heavily disagree, death the entity is multiversal, and that death is an inherent part pf reality itself, yeah we see a set of twins in chuck and amara, but why does there only need to be one, I believe death and the empty are themselves also twins but neither can fully die, the empty was as it said asleep until jack unintentionally woke it up, cuz its original counter part wasn’t there anymore, afterall billy as the new death promised she would let it sleep again, the empty is nihilism incarnated, it literally is the state of not existence an even more permanent version of death, and death is the only thing that can bring peace to the empty, they are fundamental to the university and thus permanently tied to everything, thats why chuck and amara can die and we are never told they be replaced when x dies but death can die but not permanently cuz its the walking embodiment of an action think of it like the endless in the dc comics you can kill an aspect of them but you can’t get rid of them cuz thats like trying to get rid of numbers in the universe
Except in season 13 AU Michael said that in his world he locked Death away. So unless Death can exist and co-exist in two universes at the same time unless a powerful reaper was what Michael sealed away.
@@90CJk except you seem to forget supernatural is a retcon nightmare, but ok why do we never meet or hear any alternative deaths, sure Billy and that other lady replaced death but there was still only ever 1 death at a time we ever meet, and that only happens with the multiversal characters like chuck amara and the empty, plus how would billy as death would know of how much or how far along was chuck into the destruction of the alternative universes, and chucks death book is in her library, and why would the empty itself go to her library cuz apparently billy could in theory help it sleep so why not go to any other version of death and ask them to do it, even if she was lying the empty seemed to think she would be able to help it sleep, if death is universal not multiversal, then there would be other libraries, and if billy has chucks book wouldn’t by default any other version of death also have one? Why wouldn’t it just go to one of the other universes, theres only 1 death (at a time) and theres only 1 library with 1 set of books
Not to mention do you not consider the fact that chuck takes death everywhere he goes, cuz for a moment disregard the hole multiverse thing, when amara was introduced it was stated that chuck created the archangels in order to help him lock her away, our reality is not the first or last, might be chucks favorite but its not the prime earth, chuck created countless versions of them who all probably believed that they helped him lock her up,
Everything until the introduction of the multiverse is written with the assumption that it was just one, which leads me back to what I started with, dod you forget the supernatural is a retcon nightmare? That genuinely had no long term plans and was making shit up season to season after season 5 which is why theres so many retcons and continuity errors throughout the entire series
@@90CJk matter a fact in the entire series pre jacks birth there is only 1 thing that ever even implies theres more than 1 universe and they forget about that concept until they ran out of ideas
@@90CJk Michael could locked the Avatar of Death from his Universe. Just like Darkseid is in DC a multiversal being and has avatars.
@@edwinjusto5739 The person is just pointing out that within the context of the shows very incoherent universe your theory is flawed especially because the world seemed to exist for a while with no embodiment until billie died and since it took that long for a reaper to die that probably means they don't die very easily or few people actually know or want to kill them. meaning the universe could exist without the embodiment of death for figuratively forever if no reaper is killed (because they don't die of old age) so like it would have been one thing if people simply weren't dying when killed or so like in the one myth about Thanatos being kidnapped but the world seemed to be chugging along fine. But in the context of a better show your theory is very good
The OG death was a great character. It sucks that he got replaced near the end of the series.
I just subscribed because I love your take on things SPN!
While the show was going on, I always suspected that Death was actually OG God. Just somehow trapped in the role of death by Chuck and Amara. On the seventh day when God rested Chuck and Amara trapped him.
Then when Dean killed him it broke the spell and set him free. Hence why the job of death was a fillable position, it was a designed structure of the universe. But used as a cage/trap for the real God. The reason the Universe would end if chuck or Amara dies would have been the spell on God making him forget and be Death would end and they suspected he would wipe out everything Chuck had tainted.
I was kind of disappointed with how it turned out. But hey stories unfold the way they do. It is not always roses and fan service. At least SN was never boring.
If you ever come across death good food is a good way to stop him from immediately killing you because us primordial beings can't get enough of great food
OG Death definitely is the middle ground between chuck and Amara food taste, Chuck only eats fast food and take out where’s Amara was mainly interested in quality food. Death was interred in food taste quality but was still mainly junk.
Edit: IDK if it’s a male thing but if I was powerful entity who could eat whatever I want regardless of health, then I be…..basically what I am now but more control in but also less care
really cool theories. can't wait for the colt video.
When you were speaking about deaths ring beong a sort of... Trap. To blend in,ive had a theory on the cars of the horsemen.
Each car that the horseman own is their horse. They just take the form of a car to blend in
He is the physical manifestation of death
This was Incredible Masterpiece for Death/The Pale Horseman. I never saw Death as a Villain I only saw him as an Ancient Primordial Being just doing his job. Julian Richings will always Supernatural’s Death and I always despise that Death was Killed off. Billie was a Fine Replacement and Lisa Berry did a Fantastic Job.
This video is helping me teach Taoism to my AI.
Thanks.
Supernatural was the best thing to happen to series
Billie’s got a sick looking scythe
Loved this depiction of death. He's THE GRIM REAPER in my opinion the first reaper, badass
deep....GREAT VIDEO man, just, good job
If you go the vedic route.. Death being Yama and GD being Shani dev are brothers with their dad being Surya dev, The sun. With Shani being the elder brother. Elder derived from El, one of the Hebrew names for Hashem.
Best explanation I've seen so far. I always hated the plot point of "killing death" and thought it was dumb. This eases my headcanon a bit.
If s0n ever returns they should make seasons about the horsemen
This is a good theory and part 2 so good job
I believe that when Amara was locked away, Death was created to keep the balance of life and death since God was obviously life and Amara (the darkness) was destruction or in her case death
Amara consumes, rather than destroy ... She's her own universe if you will ... When some1 dies, they go either to hell, heaven, purgatory or the empty (depending on what they were when they died) ... When Amara kills something, it feeds on their soul, grace, essence, making that thing one with herself
Death was awesome! Well acted, well written. He was actually super funny, in a dead pan.. fear for your life literally way. 😂
Chuck=creation/light. Amara=dark/destruction. Death=law/order.
I love when fans actually THINK about the stuff the writers 100% just wrote bc they needed to forward the plot and it sounded cool!
Its my favourite thing !
These videos are amazing!
OG Death went into Lucifer's cage and basically restrained the 2 strongest Archangels in the series, and he did it without any fear or hesitation. Showing that he was not even slightly worry about them, Billie never got that powerful. Like Lucifer even kills a Reaper who inherits death's position from Billie. So its safe to say that, the Reaper does NOT inherits death's power. Just his position and and knowledge.
Death can leave as Billie saw the destruction God was doing.
Death most likely came into existence at the same moment as god. As soon as creation and life existed, the end of life and creation had to exist too. This is the cosmic scale of supernatural. On one side you have Life, and Light. And on the other you have Death, and Darkness. They balance each other perfectly.
Why not make people live forever
Theres another question about death. If death (the person) was there before god and upon death, his powers and status is passed to the next reaper... how do we know if death (the person) was the first death?
I’d can’t wait to see the video on the four horseman
Just found you keep it up nice work
Any thoughts on mini scythe early on and big scythe later? And do you think Death's scythe can kill anything God/Emara level and below?
The Scythe is designed by the new Death so it appears however the current Death wants it to, as far as being able to Kill anything I believe it can it’s probably a last resort option for Death to take out more powerful beings who could overrule his natural powers and as such comes with the job. It’s something Chuck would add for a little spark of danger for himself and totally forget about too lmao
My Lord doesn’t lie his the Alfa and Omega. The beginning and the end. Blessings Be.
"Id like to see Death walking around in the background. Like the Observers in the show Fringe"
That's what the Reapers originally were in Supernatural, before they were retconed into angels later on. Angels of death specifically.
I think when Chuck created souls he used a part of his existence. Chuck said he was sick to his stomach. But doing so hollowed him out. He had writers block, but the rest of creation went in. He went mad, and wanted to wipe it out. All he did was unwind worlds not destroy them all the way, that’s why Jack can bring them back.
6:39 This is not unique to Supernatural’s Death. The Marvel Universe’s Death also has an obsession with the natural order.
I like a lot of what you have here. In my opinion though there should only be one Death. I don’t like that they made it so there were multiple and it doesn’t really make sense because God, Amara and Death are the only characters capable of multiverse travel but for some reason there are multiple deaths. Doesn’t make sense. I think there should be 3 siblings. Light (Chuck), Darkness (Amara m) and Death.
Supernatural takes a lot of from American Gods and Vertigo comics in general (Castiels trench coat is taken from Constantine, etc). Neil Gaiman wrote American Gods and Sandman which both operate on the same rules as far as how the pagans work. I’d like to think that Death (if not all four horsemen) act like the Endless from Sandman- one of which is death. They just exist naturally and supersede gods. In the Lucifer comic he creates a new universe and Death is already there. At first Lucifer thinks it’s the Death from the universe he was just in but no it’s this new universes Death.
SPOILERS FOR SANDMAN BELOW
Billy taking over as Death also makes me think of Morpheus dying and being replaced by Daniel Hall as Dream. Dream himself cannot die but the personality manifesting the concept can.
I never liked the new Death. The original was just so creepy and in control, meanwhile Billie just felt like another character, rather than some imposing primordial being. The original Death made you feel like he could stand toe-to-toe with God and Lucifer and not bat an eye while talking down to them
The *brush of death* will never be topped ❤️
So what happened when Jack took Chuck's ""power"??
Amara is his twin, would she still be as loyal to him without any power like she was to Crowley?? lmao
Or would she now be linked to Jack as he has God's power and "essence"...right?... I'm not sure, I'm confused lmao
Best character on the show 😊
When Death said hes as old as God, i would think they came to exist at the same time. When God and Amara came to exist into the "Nothing" then there was something that could and will die, so Death at that point also existed. And when he said he will also reap God an turn of the light, i belive that after God there is nothing more to reap except himself..thats what turning off the light means.
I have not watched every season of Supernatural so I might lack some canon info.
But what I wonder as a result from your video is: what even if death in the serious (the lower case d aka the primoridal? concept).
If we look at the "deaths" happening in the series, we have quite a few different processes accredited with that term.
1. The normal "death" aka human dies and soul goes to heavon or hell (or stays as a ghost). Here, the job of Death as done by his reapers is to bring the souls towards their destination dimension. I assume similar for monsters and purgatory.
2. The "death" of angels (and afaik demons). We do not know whether reapers are involved in this process. We only know that they end up in the empty under the watch of the shadow.
3. End of existence. From what you said in this video, something attributed to Amara.
Now, If we look at this, all evidence we have point to death only affecting souls. And all it does to them is transfering them from one dimension to another. Or maybe it also "disentangles" the soul from their body. The shadow seems to be something entirely different from Death, considering these two fight later on. And Amara is obviously something else, too.
If the phenomenon of death is not more that the translocation of a soul then this leaves us with
1. it was created by the one who created souls (either actively or inadvertenly). Considering that beings that posess such a soul came after Amara, God, the angels, and the arch-angels, this would imply that even the concept of death is predated by these entities. Let alone the personification of it. In this case, God clearly predates Death and has created him/her/it in every sense.
2. If we follow your theory that God does not really "create" things from scratch, but merely brings into existence things that are already there in some non-existing sense it could have non-existed as long as ever other concept in the "natural order".
This leads us to the interesting question about what souls are and where they come from.
It can be assumed that God has only limited power over them, as he once stated that he could not restore a destroyed soul. Assuming he was not lying, this means that souls are something very special even within all the other special things in the world of supernatural. And this natural order is in essence the natural order FOR SOULS. Which might entail that even God cannot bind them to a part of his creation for eternity. Which, at the moment he creates the first entity that has a soul also brings the concept of death from non-existence into existence. And may also create Death the entity.
Something I thought about just now, Death claims in the beginning that he will also claim God at some point. Considering that God basicly became mortal at the end of the series, this is true, even if God did not have a soul at the beginning. Maybe he has one then.
A "Will" inherent to the universe?
Our man has read his Schopenhauer. Kudos.
"This is part II of a two part series. If you haven't seen it, Part 1 is linked below in the description. Now on with the show"
I believe Death was a job, not an entity. It came with some benefits and powers but we see in the show that the powers granted by the position of being Death are not all that. Lucifer was able to easily kill a new Death for example. OG Death was a true primordial, which comes with its own powers which far outshine the juice granted by the position alone. Recall the meeting between Dean and OG Death that leads to Dean killing him? There is a point during that exchange where Death suggests he can relocate Dean somewhere off-world where he can't be a danger to others. If you watch OG Death's facial expression while he says this, it's quite clear he's got some other agenda, he's scheming something. I believe it was at this point he'd realized he had a way out. He'd be perfectly capable of moving Dean somewhere that Sam would have zero chance of getting Dean back, his insistence on destroying Sam was pretext, he WANTED Dean to kill him, think about it. Why would a hyper intelligent, near omnipotent being hand Dean Winchester the only thing in creation that can destroy him, and then threaten his brother? That is a ROYALLY dumb move unless you want to die. I reckon OG Death can't die, but being "destroyed" like that released him from the POSITION of death, which is what he wanted. He's still around somewhere.
What would have made perfect sense was that when Dean dies he should have assumed the mantle of death because he was the one that killed the original death all the Reapers that assumed the mantle were just Temporaries until the time when the true vessel of death Dean would have assumed
Hi!
I just speedruned your channel, you should make a video about 'OG' Medium's
If I remember correctly chucks death book had nothing in it it was empty and they used it to trick Michael to summoning him
the table of julian richings across the multiverse
Death
Death
Death
random guy
Death
Death
Death
God is nearly the same age, but neither can remember. But Amara does not recall knowing of Death. Either Death was alive during Amara's Era and simply kept away from her. Or Death was created/born after she was sealed away, and if you consider the second choice, perhaps God saw a need to Balance out Creativity and Destruction, Life and Death, and created Death for the purpose of maintaining some sort of End. Existence is the cycle of Life and Death, a Constant, a never ending cycle.
Imagine if Light had been locked up, and Amara would have to create a manifestation of creation to reason with. Played by the same actor.
Billy didn't know Dean would kill her. Death didn't know Dean would kill him. Does death not have a death book, or does deaths "being" combine with every new death, and he's actually the only immortal?
Death might be an accidental creation. When the (Supernatural) Universe manifested into two beings, one force to create as many things as possible and one to keep everything as one, then the existence of the two might have created a third by accident. Let's just say Supernatural-God created the first living things and just as he says, Amara instantly began to destroy these things, then Amara might have created Death in that moment.
Something like: "With the destruction of the first creation Death was born."
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Some Random Stuff if you're interested:
Death in Supernatural is based on the old and classic depiction of a "Ferryman". Not evil, not good. Just someone who keeps the world in balance. And it works really well, he is by far the best depicition of a supernatural deity in Supernatural.
The "Ferryman"-Myth itself is also kinda old and has many different origins which may or may not be related. There's the commonly known Greek origin, with Charon bringing the dead over the River Styx. Another now famous one would be Ancient Egyptian Anubis, though Egyptian Mythology divides this role into two characters, of which one is of course Anubis and the other I don't know the name of, but the there was actually also a boat carrying the dead. Egyptian Mythologie is also often considered to be the main source of origin for Greek Mythology.
But there's also a Norse origin. We all know the story of the Valkyries bringing the honorable dead to the Afterlife, but an even older Norse tale is actually Odin clothed in a grey cloak and hood, wielding a staff to lean on, though not needing it, bringing the dead from the land of the living to the realms beyond. Yes, that is one of Odins ancient roles.
(Small Sidenote: This is also the origin of the classic wizards look, which is usually connected with Merlin, but Merlin himself is in the legend an advocate of the old ways. In that sense, Merlin fits very well as a disguise for Odin. At least it is not unlikely that Merlin is based on old Odin depictions.)
It doesn't end there of course, Mesoptomian, Mesoamerican and various Asien Mythologies also have some form of a "Ferryman of the Dead"-character type. It seems to a consistent theme that there's someone or something that merely carries the souls of the dead from one realm into another. Sometimes that Ferryman is also in charge of checking whether a soul is worthy, sometimes a different character is in charge of that.
But, they all have in common that they are not malicious or good. They are kinda always just doing a job. Doing what they are meant to do, without ill-intend or favoritism. Everyone is the same in their eyes, even gods.
As another Sidenote, this theme of Death being a core part of Balance is also transferred into gaming. The Necromancers from both the Heroes of Might and Magic series and from the Diablo series are tasked with keeping the world in balance. They are not an evil force, even though in-world often perceived as one, they are in truth just the force between. And whenever souls cannot rest or too many are being taken, they investigate and solve the problem.
I always preferred this depiction of Necromancers. It is easy to show them as inherently evil, but them being actually a truly neutral force makes them so much more interesting.
Yo how you get Julian Richards to voice the "Nah sorry G can't do that" 😂😂😂😂
Who made up these rules? That's simple. If Chuck and Amara and brother and sister, that would mean they have parents. And I would think since the rule is "the natural order", the answer is obvious. Mother Nature.
Can you make a video on demons and how they work
Truly a fascinating interpretation.