"The last pages are for you Sam" Honestly the best way Tolkien connected his middle earth to our world is thru the minds, imagination and hearts of the reader. Years after reading the books I'm still madly in love with middle earth and all that lies within. The love affair is quickly becoming a way of life 😆 Great way to end this year 😄 Tolkien fan for life!!! 🤟🏼
A most fascination look into the skills of this master of narrative, it's sad that Tolkien never lived to see the The Silmarillion brought to life as the sage's of the Hobbit, and The Lord of the Rings were. Tolkien's legendarium is second to none, and he gave us so many great gifts to enjoy, may he rest soundly.
Whenever I hear about this aspect of the legendarium, I imagine Lewis often found Tolkien’s office strewn with string with the name “Pepe Silvia” plastered all over the walls. It stands on that knife’s edge between ingenious and insane.
This is a fascinating topic. My intuitive feeling is that Tolkien is actually presenting some bit of Earth's actual history, lost to humanity for various reasons.
That was his very idea. Humphrey Carpenter's early (and thus somewhat lacking) biography of JRRT mentions his recurring nightmare of a great island being engulfed and destroyed by the sea - this ending up being the end of Númenor we find in Silmarillion. What makes this eerie is that Christopher Tolkien, not knowing of his father's dreams, once had the same nightmare. Only upon discussion was it revealed that they had shared the dream.
It's amazing how, when Tolkien changed the Infamous chapter in the Hobbit to make it work in the LOTR, he made Bilbo have a different story to the one he told...Very writing Meta!!! I loved how Tolkien does those story within a larger story, (Beren and Luthien in LOTR) It's like a contrast, from the troubles 1st Age (The Silmarils) compared the One Ring in the 3rd Age!!! (I used some of this in my art assignment for my UNI...) Thanks so much for the most incredible look at frame narratives, Tolkien is famous for...Until the next part in your Timeline of Arda series, Marion Baggins Out!!!
As editor & redacter of Professor Tolkien's curious life's journey Christopher set such a high bar for future writers to strive for we are so lucky that he cared as much as his creator Father did in keeping it and as being responsible for the extremely personal bests we have received. Truly appreciate your interpretations & takes on Thee Legendarium 🙏Looking forward to another year of your amazing efforts 👌 Hopefully you have a blessed new year!
I do love the story of Ælfwine, connecting the stories (Númenor) to England/the English. I don't think it disrupts the universe too much. Ælfwine was a throw back in lineage to the greats of history.
Forgive me my dearest Yoystan. My hiatus has been long and strenuous, but rest assured I am back. I am comforted deeply by the nostalgic sound of your voice. It brings m great peace
Another outstanding video as I've enjoyed your excellent content for many years. One technical issue I've come to notice recently is that the volume on these videos is quite a bit softer compared to nearly all other YT content out there. I nearly always have to turn the volume up for your pieces and then back down again afterwards. May be something worth investigation. Thanks again for your continued contribution to the fandom.
This is one of your best explanations to date, in my humble estimation. You put this beloved series into a pretty box with a nice bow. I love the idea of J.R.R. finding the Red Book and translating it. Here's to a wonderful and insightful New Year!
I just read (the abandoned) "The Fall of Arthur", and in connection to it, Christopher Tolkien elaborates on the connection between "Avalon" (where Arthur went to get healed from battle) and "Tol Eressëa." Tolkien's work seems to be an effort to put a framework under the old Anglo-Saxon legends. When talking about vocabulary in these poems, it is striking how in them, there are words preserved that were already ancient at the time they were written, much like the references to the earlier ages from the third in LOTR. What a guy.
I loved that you did this video! This is one of my Favorite things Tolkien does in his stories! Well done Video I enjoyed it so much! =D So well done! (I did not know about the words on top and bottom of Books) That was so cool to learn!!! Middle Earth is a Real world! =)
The frame narrative is a very interesting and cool idea to bring flavor to a story that Tolkien used, how he is translating stories that are from eons ago. Other authors have done this too, Geoffrey of Monmouth claimed he was translating an ancient text in The History of the Kings of Britain. Geoffrey Chaucer also semi invented a source called Lollius, claiming that he was translating Lollius' Lost Book for Troilus and Criseyde in addition to using real sources like Boccaccio's IL Filostrato.
A really wonderful story,I first read Lord of the Rings age 11 over 50 years ago,since I’ve learnt more & more about all who dwell in middlearth. But there’s always more to learn✊♥️
The various frame narratives Tolkien played with are so interesting and something so few of the Tolkien youtubers have actually touched upon. No surprise that you were one of the first and best! You should read up on Hengest and Horsa, and their connection to Eriol/Ottor-basically by saying one of his characters is the father of Britian's own Romulus and Remus Tolkien is explicitly stating that the legendarium is a part of the Matter of Britian.
It would be a great challenge of literature to rewrite the red book from the point of view of the Elves, the Dunedain, Dwarves or Gondor. We would see different histories and huge change of POV.
It would have to be done by someone equally adept at archaic prose as a professor of Anglo-Saxon...with an equal degree of imagination. In fact, if you imagine an elvish author, the style register would have to go up another notch, wouldn't it?
What an amazing world Tolkien created. Great video as always, throughly enjoyed. Happy holidays and New year, looking forward to what's to come in 2022!
I am a huge fan of the elder scrolls and could tell you everything about the lore of it ranging from each region and race. I also just recently got interested in LOTR and Hobbits, your channel is interesting to me.
@@tominiowa2513 well that's true.there are youtubers who make crap content and have millions of subs while some who make the best videos have like a few hundred.
What if Saruman had never betrayed Sauron and had indeed been his servant? How would the war of the ring play out if Saruman had become the Dark Lords herald; As Sauron himself was to Melkor.
One could argue that Saruman WAS under Sauron's influence, and Saruman was simply blinded and arrogant by ego and power that he thought he was above Sauron's corrupting influence and thought that he was able to take the power for himself without realising that it was simply part of Sauron's manipulation to acquire the ring quicker. Sauron does not share power, and thus Saruman as a Herald of Sauron's would likely reduce Saruman to a powerful tool like Theoden was to Grima Wormtongue/Saruman. A powerful tool, but still not a force of his own. Thus, given that Sauron never sought any power but the one ring, it is likely that Saruman as a direct emissary of Sauron would not overly empower Sauron. It would just reduce Saruman to an extension of Sauron. For indeed it is not the power of the Maiar that results in victory, but the kindness and courage. Gandalf's power did not overly sway a battle, so neither would Saruman's, but it was their attributes outside of their power that brought victory in the war.
Personally, I like the idea that the account of how Bilbo took the ring from Gollum changed because There and Back Again was originally a story Bilbo told his nieces and nephews. While he was quite content to be thought of as "not quite respectable" after all his adventures outside the Shire, Bilbo still couldn't quite bring himself to encourage impressionable young Hobbit children to steal. Not even from a creature as wretched and vile as Gollum.
the hobbit appears to be written by the hobbit so Durin's Day wasn't celebrated although it marks the new year. it was noted because it was the only time they could find the keyhole in the Lonely Mountain. some people say it is in october but that may be an error when convertied the middle earth calendar
Does anyone know if it's true that Tolkien wrote his works as a "foundation myth" for the English people in the way that the Viking Sagas provide a cultural base for the Scandinavian people? Given his knowledge and interest of ancient British languages - Beowulf and all his thinking about Robin Hood etc in Tree and Leaf (from memory) it'd certainly make sense - and explain why he'd try to link Middle Earth to England via Aelfwine.
Sir could you explore real world parallels with cultures and history with Middle-Earth? The inspirations that Tolkien had in creating his story? I would love to see that and that is very interesting!
Very interesting history on J.R.R. Tolkien’s works I love it so cool and fascinating I have the Hobbit book and all three of the Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien and I enjoy the stories that they tell every time I read them never gets old and I have to say the same with movies with the trilogy’s of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings great video even if it was a bit complex I still enjoyed it as always! 😊👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yeah... first he had Eriol... then he toyed with the Notion club, then he got to the authorship /translating of elvish tales thing... I still beöieve both the Eriol and the notion club concept very fascinating!
What if Tolkien actually witnessed these events through a message from Eru Himself and this was actually our earth millions of years ago. That would be pretty cool.
I read somewhere years back that the Fouth Age took place around 6,000 years prior to beginning of history and civilization. So, around 10,000 bc +/-. Göbekli Tepe and/or Atlantis. He likely had the Atlantis myth in mind.
@@eds1942 Tolkien himself said the modern era is the tail end of the 6th age or the beginnings of the 7th. He also said that each age after the 3rd is shorter than the last. So 10,000 years is a good estimate of when the events of LOTR took place. Though my question is how did Middle Earth become Earth? What happened in the 4th, 5th, and 6th age that Arda got reshaped into modern Earth? And if Middle Earth became Europe, where did the Americas come from?
@@ltramon7463 Middle Earth was the middle region of the main continent of Arda. And it sort of matches up with modern Europe and maybe into the Middle-East. At the end of the Third Age, Mordor flooded. Then going into the modern age, we have the Biblical flood. But, there’s the whole Enoch tradition built around that with others that could be equated to the Maiar, and I don’t know Tolkien’s thoughts on it. I’ve always took the reshaping of the World to be metaphorical. Something happens that forces us to change our view of the world. The more we spread out and interacted with other peoples, the more it seems to change.
I've always wondered if there's parts where the different in-universe writers can be discerned. Such as some of the journey home material from Return of the King, which would have largely been covered by Sam presumably.
I think Eriol a man of our world meeting elves of middle earth is similar how in the witcher books Ciri meets a knight of the round table and goes to Camelot.
The fact that we are now discovering new links in human history with new found fossil remains of what looks like a species of miniature humans is exciting...
What really boggles my mind is that an entire world was in Tolkien's head. He was his world's Eru Illuvitar He created cultures and languages, over ten thousand years of history without the benefit of computers, or video to help remember details. He named over six thousand years of Numenorean royalty. He was the father of not just fantasy literature, but of fantasy movies, television, games both in the mind (Dungeons and Dragons) and electronic. There is no Shannara series, Forgotten Realms, Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, or many other things that Tolkien fans and others love.
The main question I have about this story is how did Aelfwine just stumble across the straight road? If it was by chance, then the number of trans-Atlantic ships today massively dwarfs those of ~900AD, thus far more ships should have also accidentally sailed the road since. So the only way this makes sense is if Aelfwine was chosen by the Valar to make this journey, but why him? His heritage is important but after thousands of years, there would be countless descendants like him so this doesn’t quite make sense either.
One plot hole that this frame narrative has is: how did the hobbits know about the Thinking Fox if they were sleeping and the fox was, well, thinking? Or how did they know that Gollum was caressing Frodo's leg in Cirith Ungol and was considering not betraying them? I guess those were later "literary" additions by different editors and it didn't really happen like that
I like to think that Tolkien found the Red Book while he was in the trenches of France in WWI I imagine a young Tolkien digging to protect himself from the german bombings and finding an old Red Book, hidden underground since ancient times
I think the most profound realisation of how Tolkien wrote the story is that our perceptions of these characters are only filtered through the perceptions of the Hobbits that wrote them, but what if their perspectives were flawed due to their limited knowledge? Were characters such as Gandalf or Aragorn as noble as we imagine, were the agents of the Dark Lord all malicious or simply understood, was the world of Middle Earth one of unparalleled beauty or was that just how the Baggins family saw it? Martin gets credit for introducing moral complexity and POV bias into High Fantasy on a mass scale, and while the framing device of the narrative being a literal account from England’s distant past doesn’t make perfect sense, it is nevertheless a fascinating one that raises a lot more questions about the presentation of this world than if Tolkien had just left it at being his own fictional story and that element makes every aspect of the story worth revisiting in detail for that reason alone.
Hi, Yoystan (@Men of the West), what might have happened if Wormtongue hadn't killed Saruman after the Scourging of the Shire? Do you think Saruman would have tried to come back and take over the Shire and the rest of Middle Earth? Great video this week, by the way!
This is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y My premise, and when asked why does "The Hobbit" have such a different tone (Within the Tolkien Universe) than "The Downfall Of The Lord Of The Rings And The Return Of The King" My answer is always: Because that was simply Bilbo's way of writing. Bilbo tended to be whimsical. Frodo was more straight forward.
Apart of me doesn’t really like the idea of the legendarium being our far ancient history as it gets rid of any “happily ever after” that might exist after LoTR. As our history has very little genuine heroics and a great deal of suffering inflicted upon ourselves
Now we're talking, This is the side of talking that nobody is put on YT yet. Glad you're getting away from balrog and the blue wizards type content, They've been done to death on here enough for those videos on YT And most the other lotr creator have ignored things like this
Yeah nobody is talking about this in videos, which seems odd to me. It is fascinating. Although this Eriol narrative was abandoned in lieu of what we now know, it has always been a point of continual meditation for me. I am always thinking in terms of this being a real parallel.
Hate frame-narratives, weirdly I find the idea of ME being this world being a dull idea, that said I love that the stories are those written down by Bilbo, Frodo, Sam & the other Hobbits and the Elves. Oh and beautiful message at the end, a true lesson for all writers.
His world is built on European mythology. Is European mythology. Would a Greek care if we turned his legends into African and multicultural tales? Certainly.
Happy Holidays and New Year everyone! Thank you all so much for supporting the channel, here's to another wonderful year!
Happy holidays! And New Year! Tolkien connected both worlds because he was “some wizard’s pupil”!
Thank you for your beautiful storytelling 🙏🧙♂️
Happy Holidays mate
@@Jesse_andrew same to you!
Hope you had a Merry Christmas.
"The last pages are for you Sam"
Honestly the best way Tolkien connected his middle earth to our world is thru the minds, imagination and hearts of the reader. Years after reading the books I'm still madly in love with middle earth and all that lies within. The love affair is quickly becoming a way of life 😆
Great way to end this year 😄
Tolkien fan for life!!! 🤟🏼
Once an LOTR fan, always an LOTR fan!
I-magi-nation is real. It’s not illusion. It’s channelling other realms n dimensions.
For Christmas I finally got a hardback copy of The Silmarillion & An Encyclopedia of Tolkien, which is just a beautiful book I love it so much
Congrats! Got mine for Christmas many years ago or as my friends and I refer to it "the before time". It is a treasured possession.
A most fascination look into the skills of this master of narrative, it's sad that Tolkien never lived to see the The Silmarillion brought to life as the sage's of the Hobbit, and The Lord of the Rings were. Tolkien's legendarium is second to none, and he gave us so many great gifts to enjoy, may he rest soundly.
Whenever I hear about this aspect of the legendarium, I imagine Lewis often found Tolkien’s office strewn with string with the name “Pepe Silvia” plastered all over the walls.
It stands on that knife’s edge between ingenious and insane.
I see you have more interests than just listening to the lotus eaters
Between Pure Genius...
And Insanity...
@@blvp2145
ThEn being the operative word?
Or did you mean:... Than...?
This is a fascinating topic. My intuitive feeling is that Tolkien is actually presenting some bit of Earth's actual history, lost to humanity for various reasons.
Exactly
That was his very idea. Humphrey Carpenter's early (and thus somewhat lacking) biography of JRRT mentions his recurring nightmare of a great island being engulfed and destroyed by the sea - this ending up being the end of Númenor we find in Silmarillion. What makes this eerie is that Christopher Tolkien, not knowing of his father's dreams, once had the same nightmare. Only upon discussion was it revealed that they had shared the dream.
I agree and feel and somehow "know", from within, the same.
Do these words make you feel a certain way?
Oraa Nataru Shari
Blessings
It's amazing how, when Tolkien changed the Infamous chapter in the Hobbit to make it work in the LOTR, he made Bilbo have a different story to the one he told...Very writing Meta!!!
I loved how Tolkien does those story within a larger story, (Beren and Luthien in LOTR) It's like a contrast, from the troubles 1st Age (The Silmarils) compared the One Ring in the 3rd Age!!! (I used some of this in my art assignment for my UNI...)
Thanks so much for the most incredible look at frame narratives, Tolkien is famous for...Until the next part in your Timeline of Arda series, Marion Baggins Out!!!
A Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to all Free People and Good Folk.
As long as the new year contains Yoystan content, it will be a wonderful year...
Small note - Ltd is an abbreviation used in the UK and Ireland. It is spoken as "limited".
Merry Christmas guys. I have been playing a whole bunch of LOTR video games over the holiday season. Planning to review them all on my second channel.
I got the Lost Tales for Christmas and am listening to the Lost Tales Audio book. Just started that a week ago. What an amazing coincidence.
As editor & redacter of Professor Tolkien's curious life's journey Christopher set such a high bar for future writers to strive for we are so lucky that he cared as much as his creator Father did in keeping it and as being responsible for the extremely personal bests we have received. Truly appreciate your interpretations & takes on Thee Legendarium 🙏Looking forward to another year of your amazing efforts 👌 Hopefully you have a blessed new year!
I do love the story of Ælfwine, connecting the stories (Númenor) to England/the English. I don't think it disrupts the universe too much. Ælfwine was a throw back in lineage to the greats of history.
I love the fact that the stories can be worked out to a point in history.
Forgive me my dearest Yoystan. My hiatus has been long and strenuous, but rest assured I am back. I am comforted deeply by the nostalgic sound of your voice. It brings m great peace
Many thanks for all your work over 2021 narrating these tales so well.
Excellent post, Yoystan. Thank you, Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year.
Another outstanding video as I've enjoyed your excellent content for many years. One technical issue I've come to notice recently is that the volume on these videos is quite a bit softer compared to nearly all other YT content out there. I nearly always have to turn the volume up for your pieces and then back down again afterwards. May be something worth investigation. Thanks again for your continued contribution to the fandom.
Yoystan is speaking softly to avoid attracting roving orcs. 😉
This is one of your best explanations to date, in my humble estimation. You put this beloved series into a pretty box with a nice bow. I love the idea of J.R.R. finding the Red Book and translating it. Here's to a wonderful and insightful New Year!
What a excellent video idea! Happy holidays 👍
Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!
I just read (the abandoned) "The Fall of Arthur", and in connection to it, Christopher Tolkien elaborates on the connection between "Avalon" (where Arthur went to get healed from battle) and "Tol Eressëa." Tolkien's work seems to be an effort to put a framework under the old Anglo-Saxon legends.
When talking about vocabulary in these poems, it is striking how in them, there are words preserved that were already ancient at the time they were written, much like the references to the earlier ages from the third in LOTR.
What a guy.
I loved that you did this video! This is one of my Favorite things Tolkien does in his stories! Well done Video I enjoyed it so much! =D So well done! (I did not know about the words on top and bottom of Books) That was so cool to learn!!! Middle Earth is a Real world! =)
The frame narrative is a very interesting and cool idea to bring flavor to a story that Tolkien used, how he is translating stories that are from eons ago. Other authors have done this too, Geoffrey of Monmouth claimed he was translating an ancient text in The History of the Kings of Britain. Geoffrey Chaucer also semi invented a source called Lollius, claiming that he was translating Lollius' Lost Book for Troilus and Criseyde in addition to using real sources like Boccaccio's IL Filostrato.
A really wonderful story,I first read Lord of the Rings age 11 over 50 years ago,since I’ve learnt more & more about all who dwell in middlearth.
But there’s always more to learn✊♥️
I always wondered why Frodo could not control the nazgul on weathertop when he wore the one ring.
Thanks for the video.
What an excellent video! Thank you so much!
As always, a brilliant video. Tolkien was a one of a kind genius and a true artist.
The various frame narratives Tolkien played with are so interesting and something so few of the Tolkien youtubers have actually touched upon. No surprise that you were one of the first and best! You should read up on Hengest and Horsa, and their connection to Eriol/Ottor-basically by saying one of his characters is the father of Britian's own Romulus and Remus Tolkien is explicitly stating that the legendarium is a part of the Matter of Britian.
GREAT deep dive into an aspect of the stories that often goes completely overlooked or barely noted by the reader.
Happy holidays to all!:)
It would be a great challenge of literature to rewrite the red book from the point of view of the Elves, the Dunedain, Dwarves or Gondor. We would see different histories and huge change of POV.
That would really be good. Awesome profile picture btw.
It would have to be done by someone equally adept at archaic prose as a professor of Anglo-Saxon...with an equal degree of imagination. In fact, if you imagine an elvish author, the style register would have to go up another notch, wouldn't it?
@@matthiasweiss1144 pov of sindarin elves, or noldor elves, or telari would be interesting. Or pov of the dwarves from the first age.
Loved this video man! Keep it up, and happy holidays!
Great video mate! 🙌
Nice video, looking forward to your video.
What an amazing world Tolkien created. Great video as always, throughly enjoyed. Happy holidays and New year, looking forward to what's to come in 2022!
Incredible video and heart felt writing . Thank you brother .
I am a huge fan of the elder scrolls and could tell you everything about the lore of it ranging from each region and race. I also just recently got interested in LOTR and Hobbits, your channel is interesting to me.
Amazing video! Good topic!
Why is this channel so underrated while other crappy LOTR lore channels are big.they don't deserve so many views.
Quality and popularity are all to often mutually exclusive.
@@tominiowa2513 well that's true.there are youtubers who make crap content and have millions of subs while some who make the best videos have like a few hundred.
What if Saruman had never betrayed Sauron and had indeed been his servant? How would the war of the ring play out if Saruman had become the Dark Lords herald; As Sauron himself was to Melkor.
One could argue that Saruman WAS under Sauron's influence, and Saruman was simply blinded and arrogant by ego and power that he thought he was above Sauron's corrupting influence and thought that he was able to take the power for himself without realising that it was simply part of Sauron's manipulation to acquire the ring quicker.
Sauron does not share power, and thus Saruman as a Herald of Sauron's would likely reduce Saruman to a powerful tool like Theoden was to Grima Wormtongue/Saruman. A powerful tool, but still not a force of his own.
Thus, given that Sauron never sought any power but the one ring, it is likely that Saruman as a direct emissary of Sauron would not overly empower Sauron. It would just reduce Saruman to an extension of Sauron.
For indeed it is not the power of the Maiar that results in victory, but the kindness and courage. Gandalf's power did not overly sway a battle, so neither would Saruman's, but it was their attributes outside of their power that brought victory in the war.
fascinating.
merry Christmas everyone
The Lord of The Rings is the greatest story ever told and I don't think anyone can deny that.
Disagree - The combination of _The Silmarillion_ , _The Hobbit_ , and _LOTR_ is the greatest story.
@@tominiowa2513 That is true
Damn such an odd but interesting video, one of my favourites about Tolkien and his legendarium for sure! Thank you! And happy holidays!
Let's go! Finally seeing Ælfwine here! :D
Personally, I like the idea that the account of how Bilbo took the ring from Gollum changed because There and Back Again was originally a story Bilbo told his nieces and nephews.
While he was quite content to be thought of as "not quite respectable" after all his adventures outside the Shire, Bilbo still couldn't quite bring himself to encourage impressionable young Hobbit children to steal. Not even from a creature as wretched and vile as Gollum.
I've always found this particular topic rather mind bending since I discovered it more deliberately.
the hobbit appears to be written by the hobbit so Durin's Day wasn't celebrated although it marks the new year. it was noted because it was the only time they could find the keyhole in the Lonely Mountain. some people say it is in october but that may be an error when convertied the middle earth calendar
Does anyone know if it's true that Tolkien wrote his works as a "foundation myth" for the English people in the way that the Viking Sagas provide a cultural base for the Scandinavian people?
Given his knowledge and interest of ancient British languages - Beowulf and all his thinking about Robin Hood etc in Tree and Leaf (from memory) it'd certainly make sense - and explain why he'd try to link Middle Earth to England via Aelfwine.
Sir could you explore real world parallels with cultures and history with Middle-Earth? The inspirations that Tolkien had in creating his story? I would love to see that and that is very interesting!
Very interesting history on J.R.R. Tolkien’s works I love it so cool and fascinating I have the Hobbit book and all three of the Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien and I enjoy the stories that they tell every time I read them never gets old and I have to say the same with movies with the trilogy’s of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings great video even if it was a bit complex I still enjoyed it as always! 😊👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Yeah... first he had Eriol... then he toyed with the Notion club, then he got to the authorship /translating of elvish tales thing...
I still beöieve both the Eriol and the notion club concept very fascinating!
So basically, in universe, the reason The Hobbit, Silmarillion & LOTR exists in our world is due to a Narnia-esque multiverse?
It seems like it. I've never been a fan of having the real world and the fantasy world co-existing like Narnia. Still Tolkien is a great writer.
Gate: Thus the Japanese Self-Defense Fought There
@@reynaldomezapuerto47 It’s almost like Tolkien ventured to middle earth and came back with it.
Belated congratulations on your 7th anniversary
What if Tolkien actually witnessed these events through a message from Eru Himself and this was actually our earth millions of years ago. That would be pretty cool.
If that were true I would hop in the Tardis and go back in time!
@@knightonart8886 well you never know.
I read somewhere years back that the Fouth Age took place around 6,000 years prior to beginning of history and civilization.
So, around 10,000 bc +/-. Göbekli Tepe and/or Atlantis. He likely had the Atlantis myth in mind.
@@eds1942 Tolkien himself said the modern era is the tail end of the 6th age or the beginnings of the 7th. He also said that each age after the 3rd is shorter than the last.
So 10,000 years is a good estimate of when the events of LOTR took place.
Though my question is how did Middle Earth become Earth? What happened in the 4th, 5th, and 6th age that Arda got reshaped into modern Earth?
And if Middle Earth became Europe, where did the Americas come from?
@@ltramon7463 Middle Earth was the middle region of the main continent of Arda. And it sort of matches up with modern Europe and maybe into the Middle-East.
At the end of the Third Age, Mordor flooded. Then going into the modern age, we have the Biblical flood. But, there’s the whole Enoch tradition built around that with others that could be equated to the Maiar, and I don’t know Tolkien’s thoughts on it.
I’ve always took the reshaping of the World to be metaphorical. Something happens that forces us to change our view of the world. The more we spread out and interacted with other peoples, the more it seems to change.
My favorite framed narrative is the Good Parts Version of The Princess Bride, by S. Morgenstern as retold by William Goldman.
Bro your vids are ace
I've always wondered if there's parts where the different in-universe writers can be discerned. Such as some of the journey home material from Return of the King, which would have largely been covered by Sam presumably.
I think this is some next level meta narrative for fantasy novel.
Interesting
I think Eriol a man of our world meeting elves of middle earth is similar how in the witcher books Ciri meets a knight of the round table and goes to Camelot.
The fact that we are now discovering new links in human history with new found fossil remains of what looks like a species of miniature humans is exciting...
What really boggles my mind is that an entire world was in Tolkien's head. He was his world's Eru Illuvitar He created cultures and languages, over ten thousand years of history without the benefit of computers, or video to help remember details. He named over six thousand years of Numenorean royalty. He was the father of not just fantasy literature, but of fantasy movies, television, games both in the mind (Dungeons and Dragons) and electronic. There is no Shannara series, Forgotten Realms, Game of Thrones, Wheel of Time, or many other things that Tolkien fans and others love.
Tolkien had suucchh an immense imagination, thank the gods.
The main question I have about this story is how did Aelfwine just stumble across the straight road? If it was by chance, then the number of trans-Atlantic ships today massively dwarfs those of ~900AD, thus far more ships should have also accidentally sailed the road since. So the only way this makes sense is if Aelfwine was chosen by the Valar to make this journey, but why him? His heritage is important but after thousands of years, there would be countless descendants like him so this doesn’t quite make sense either.
One plot hole that this frame narrative has is: how did the hobbits know about the Thinking Fox if they were sleeping and the fox was, well, thinking? Or how did they know that Gollum was caressing Frodo's leg in Cirith Ungol and was considering not betraying them? I guess those were later "literary" additions by different editors and it didn't really happen like that
Holy shit.... Damn. Middle earth lives
Of course, Ingwe was Ingvi-Frey.
I like to think that Tolkien found the Red Book while he was in the trenches of France in WWI
I imagine a young Tolkien digging to protect himself from the german bombings and finding an old Red Book, hidden underground since ancient times
Listening again in August 2024. Missing LOTR!
Hello can you do who would win out of the high elves ??? #teamfingolfin
I think the most profound realisation of how Tolkien wrote the story is that our perceptions of these characters are only filtered through the perceptions of the Hobbits that wrote them, but what if their perspectives were flawed due to their limited knowledge? Were characters such as Gandalf or Aragorn as noble as we imagine, were the agents of the Dark Lord all malicious or simply understood, was the world of Middle Earth one of unparalleled beauty or was that just how the Baggins family saw it?
Martin gets credit for introducing moral complexity and POV bias into High Fantasy on a mass scale, and while the framing device of the narrative being a literal account from England’s distant past doesn’t make perfect sense, it is nevertheless a fascinating one that raises a lot more questions about the presentation of this world than if Tolkien had just left it at being his own fictional story and that element makes every aspect of the story worth revisiting in detail for that reason alone.
Martin isn't worthy to untie the strap of Tolkiens sandals, like Morgoth he can only twist and corrupt beauty, but can not create anything wholesome.
Hi, Yoystan (@Men of the West), what might have happened if Wormtongue hadn't killed Saruman after the Scourging of the Shire? Do you think Saruman would have tried to come back and take over the Shire and the rest of Middle Earth?
Great video this week, by the way!
This is E-X-A-C-T-L-Y My premise, and when asked why does "The Hobbit" have such a different tone (Within the Tolkien Universe) than
"The Downfall Of The Lord Of The Rings And The Return Of The King"
My answer is always:
Because that was simply Bilbo's way of writing. Bilbo tended to be whimsical.
Frodo was more straight forward.
for the algorithm
Wait, so if Eriol is actually is actually credited in all the books, doesn’t that mean it’s canon, too?
Apart of me doesn’t really like the idea of the legendarium being our far ancient history as it gets rid of any “happily ever after” that might exist after LoTR. As our history has very little genuine heroics and a great deal of suffering inflicted upon ourselves
Now we're talking,
This is the side of talking that nobody is put on YT yet.
Glad you're getting away from balrog and the blue wizards type content, They've been done to death on here enough for those videos on YT And most the other lotr creator have ignored things like this
(Just so it doesn't get misconstrued I mean this in the nicest complimentary way I can)
Yeah nobody is talking about this in videos, which seems odd to me. It is fascinating. Although this Eriol narrative was abandoned in lieu of what we now know, it has always been a point of continual meditation for me. I am always thinking in terms of this being a real parallel.
tolkien is the next king of kings
Tolkien is a Saint but not the King of kings
Because the stories are History.
or maybe, just maybe... (I wish)
We need a diagram 😂
Though Christ metaphors …..
Hate frame-narratives, weirdly I find the idea of ME being this world being a dull idea, that said I love that the stories are those written down by Bilbo, Frodo, Sam & the other Hobbits and the Elves.
Oh and beautiful message at the end, a true lesson for all writers.
Tolkien's legendarium is history of an "alternate" Earth, not the one we actually live on.
@@tominiowa2513 Fair enough lol, I like that thinking. Thanks for correcting me.
Mordor is away down in the south east of that world. JrrT was a very devout Catholic.
Mordor.....Mecca???
You think Tolkien would care about colored elves and dwarves?
Yes
@@Hero_Of_Old I think not.
His world is built on European mythology. Is European mythology. Would a Greek care if we turned his legends into African and multicultural tales? Certainly.
He was a Christian, and took themes from the Bible.
To answer some of the metaphysical questions about Tolkien's creation, one must be familiar with the theology of St. Thomas Aquinas.