Nice and educational. Thank you. How much of the pressure being a key factor for tasting notes? Wonder if you keep pressure the same but tinker with grind size, temp, dose, etc to vary shot time and can still create the same range of shots as presented here. As a novice I feel like the time that the puck spent with hot water has the biggest consequence so I wonder if pressure has direct effect on the taste or is it because varying pressure changes the shot duration..?
I think that grind size and brew ratio make the biggest difference to taste overall but I think the profiling can do interesting things but is still not fully understood. My thoughts (for what they're worth) are that profiling may help with increasing contact time of water to coffee (blooming style shot) for more full and even extraction (at the risk of puck integrity) and that maybe the declining pressure profiles helps mitigate the puck losing integrity as it gives up more of its solubles, and by having a lower flow at the end of the shot may pull less fines into the cup. It's definitely fun to play around with
This is quite a subjective subject as we are discussing taste and the debate is still going on in regards to which is better for taste. However now that we have feedback in the terms of data presented on the Decent app. The consensus now is that we agree flowrate is key. Especially when we apply it to different roast levels. Flowrate will dictate the pressure generated by the puck with that dose and grind size and therefore will also affect the shot time. Chris has pointed out some good points and with profiling we can push our extractions further to draw out the best from the bean.
Pulling a shot with a machine like this that traps the CO2 (a light colored crema is one of the tells that this is happening) and then tasting it immediately when the shot is still full of acidity enhancing CO2 and judging the acidity is really bizarre. Let the shot sit for at least a minute for the CO2 to off-gas before judging it. The way I make espresso, I can let the CO2 dissipate in the early wetting stage, so I get a darker crema and not so much CO2 fizz in the shot. Tastes way smoother. You see this issue more visibly happening in pour over.
Agreed we could have let the shot cool more before trying, but tasting the shots one after another the difference in a acidity was notable and easy to distinguish. I believe you are referring to blooming the coffee when mentioning pour overs.
Don’t see this recipe in the appendix of Scott Rao’s The Professional Barista’s Handbook Fourth printing (2011), unfortunately. Bought from Rao’s own website this year.
I often hope that people working for cheaper brands of espresso machines buy your machines to learn, or at least take copious notes from your own findings. :) Do you know (or suspect) if that has actually happened?
Not sure you can say this is a profile test if you're changing the grind. Controlling your variables is essential if you're offering a scientific comparison.
@@coffeemornings3462 However they kept the grind the same compared to the flat 9 profile. Perhaps they should have tried coarser and finer on both the flat 9 bar and the pressure profiled shots and compared those four against each other. I agree witg @william baker that changing the grind on the lever profile just muddies the water (pun intended). Maybe skip doing the lever and just focus on flat 9 and pressure profiled, or just lever and pressure profiled and use different grinds across both.
I agree with you on that one, grinding finer can increase extraction and reduce acidity too, so doing that makes it harder to see the full effect the profiles had to the first shot
Agreed. I take it as their brand espousing the tech their machine uses. My biggest take-away is that with pressure profiling, I can more cater the extraction towards the flavors I enjoy. I totally disagree with their idea that the flavors in their second shot being too chocolaty makes it wrong for an espresso drinker to prefer.
great tour of profiling. i wish i could join y'all haha all those shots sounded tasty.
Nice and educational. Thank you. How much of the pressure being a key factor for tasting notes? Wonder if you keep pressure the same but tinker with grind size, temp, dose, etc to vary shot time and can still create the same range of shots as presented here. As a novice I feel like the time that the puck spent with hot water has the biggest consequence so I wonder if pressure has direct effect on the taste or is it because varying pressure changes the shot duration..?
I think that grind size and brew ratio make the biggest difference to taste overall but I think the profiling can do interesting things but is still not fully understood. My thoughts (for what they're worth) are that profiling may help with increasing contact time of water to coffee (blooming style shot) for more full and even extraction (at the risk of puck integrity) and that maybe the declining pressure profiles helps mitigate the puck losing integrity as it gives up more of its solubles, and by having a lower flow at the end of the shot may pull less fines into the cup. It's definitely fun to play around with
This is quite a subjective subject as we are discussing taste and the debate is still going on in regards to which is better for taste. However now that we have feedback in the terms of data presented on the Decent app. The consensus now is that we agree flowrate is key. Especially when we apply it to different roast levels. Flowrate will dictate the pressure generated by the puck with that dose and grind size and therefore will also affect the shot time.
Chris has pointed out some good points and with profiling we can push our extractions further to draw out the best from the bean.
Would love to experimenting this on my Flair58
Yeah this is the best co-presenter.
I find that dropping the pressure helps with older beans.
How old was the coffee used in the video?
No beggars, I subcribed.
I don't know who the white shirt guy is, but I like how he describes
That's Paul Chan, our Decent coffee expert.
Nice video !! Hi in Taiwan
Pulling a shot with a machine like this that traps the CO2 (a light colored crema is one of the tells that this is happening) and then tasting it immediately when the shot is still full of acidity enhancing CO2 and judging the acidity is really bizarre. Let the shot sit for at least a minute for the CO2 to off-gas before judging it. The way I make espresso, I can let the CO2 dissipate in the early wetting stage, so I get a darker crema and not so much CO2 fizz in the shot. Tastes way smoother. You see this issue more visibly happening in pour over.
Agreed we could have let the shot cool more before trying, but tasting the shots one after another the difference in a acidity was notable and easy to distinguish. I believe you are referring to blooming the coffee when mentioning pour overs.
Can you make a post on Diaspora and share each finished shot profile, the grind setting on the Niche and what bean you are using?
It will be on diaspora, yes!
Don’t see this recipe in the appendix of Scott Rao’s The Professional Barista’s Handbook Fourth printing (2011), unfortunately. Bought from Rao’s own website this year.
I believe it was in the appendix to this ebook:
www.amazon.com/Espresso-Extraction-Measurement-Scott-Rao-ebook/dp/B00F2VCTP6/
I often hope that people working for cheaper brands of espresso machines buy your machines to learn, or at least take copious notes from your own findings. :)
Do you know (or suspect) if that has actually happened?
Not sure you can say this is a profile test if you're changing the grind. Controlling your variables is essential if you're offering a scientific comparison.
Pressure profiling let's you grind finer without choking compared to a flat-9 profile. This isn't a scientific test as much as it is for practicality.
@@coffeemornings3462 However they kept the grind the same compared to the flat 9 profile. Perhaps they should have tried coarser and finer on both the flat 9 bar and the pressure profiled shots and compared those four against each other. I agree witg @william baker that changing the grind on the lever profile just muddies the water (pun intended). Maybe skip doing the lever and just focus on flat 9 and pressure profiled, or just lever and pressure profiled and use different grinds across both.
I agree with you on that one, grinding finer can increase extraction and reduce acidity too, so doing that makes it harder to see the full effect the profiles had to the first shot
Agreed. I take it as their brand espousing the tech their machine uses. My biggest take-away is that with pressure profiling, I can more cater the extraction towards the flavors I enjoy. I totally disagree with their idea that the flavors in their second shot being too chocolaty makes it wrong for an espresso drinker to prefer.