The dedicated pvp team isnt a bad idea. A destint version of gun game could be fun-ish as a mode. But he def loss credibility with the ine class thing lmao
@@Belloc_The_Hallow well technically all FPS shooters are like Halo. Halo 1 pioneered the whole 2 thumbsticks, sticky aim/aim assist, 2 weapon sandbox that basically every FPS game since has followed.
Honestly I think the things that make destiny 2, inherently destroy pvp. You can’t play this game only as a pvp player. You have to play pve to get specific guns you need. Abilities make this game not appealable to people who are into normal fps games. I believe if bungie actually wants people to play pvp, they need to simplify it. For me, I don’t play pvp because of abilities. I’m pretty good at fps games, but that habit of relying on gun play does not carry over well in this game when taking abilities and supers into consideration.
@@id1550 the thing that makes destiny 2 pvp destiny 2 pvp are the abilities and supers. It also makes sence that youd need to at least play the pve side of destiny to get weapons
@@localblackman5970 nah bruh what makes destiny pvp is gunplay. abilities and supers were HARDLY a problem in d1, and why did people still play? gunplay
@@riothegod1831 you must be joshing me bruh. Every fps has gunplay, although none will ever feel the same they all have a unique feel. But what really sets destiny apart from other fps games? Its the abilitys
Honestly it'd be better than the mess that is d2's current PvP, but still they should find a way to rebalance the game but maybe not with the one class thing.
@@Nozzinator no it wouldn’t. Destiny pvp isn’t the best but it’s unique because of the abilities you have. Why would you want basically a version of black ops 3 in destiny?
@exhoduz7746 No they wouldn't. Everyone would play with pulses and scouts and shotguns. You would singlehandedly kill pvp. I can tell you never top the leaderboard.
@@Kizen. people already ape around with Shotgun’s still and even with ability spam the way it is there’s 0 reason why you couldn’t just use scout and Pulse rifles other then the fact that scout rifles are shit and hand cannons have the same range as pulse rifles still since like all of these maps are mid-close range. There’s like 2-3 maps that could actually use scout rifles and the moment the other team stops fighting “outside” and decides to go “inside” you’re suddenly running a hand cannon again or a SMG because it’s just so damn close.
Ong pvp saved destiny 1 so its more then a story game. And if this is peak story by god help you. Its not the story thats keeping it alive its the loot
@@shadowvurta1624 I mean there's plenty of people that buy DLCs for Trials access, I feel bad if you actually bought ligthfall for that dumpster fire of a story
Let's just make Destiny not Destiny. They need to remove SBMM , prioritize connection, release new maps and content and that's all it needs. PVP in Destiny 2 doesn't need to try to be an esport, it just needs to be FUN AND REWARDING. It's a looter shooter not an esport, it's OK if PVP is straight up crazy as long as its fun (i.e. no cheaters, no teleporting laggers from 1/2 way across the world and no SBMM forcing every game to be a slow sweaty slog)
As a shitty pvp player who wants to play pvp for trials and iron banner the SBMM has made crucible a lot more enjoyable recently. But as a mainly pve guy I understand the pvp aspect of it so I just want a mix between the two. Like give me the best connection with people who are not sweats like me cause seriously despise pvp
A lack of sbmm isn't fun and rewarding, it ends in me getting steamrolled over, and over, and over again because the fresh outta flawless team rolls up on me and a group of blueberries for fifteen matches straight. Not fun, glad they implemented it so at least I know the adept immortal suckers are on my level, and outplaying them is an option. 😊
Yet it does lag. Exotics with extended melee range has people rubber banding all over the place. Killing someone and than dying to them half a second later from a melee attack. Dedicated servers and a team focusing on PvP purely will fix everything, including adding new maps and balancing the clearly overwhelming special weapons and ability spam. There should really be a game mode that has reduced ability recharge rates.
Obviously this man has different preference. I respect his opinion, but almost everything he said other than having a dedicated PvP team would just destroy the image of the game as whole.
Pretty much he wants this game to be like college to be like call the duty and the other games that he plays I've been playing this since destiny Week 1 If he doesn't like it then he should play another game that would interest him again that would interest him because destiny is a Halo clone
@@davidspearim5552 thats what im saying, it seems like shroud just wants another modern shooter because he cant jump in destiny being good. Theres a major skill gap with destiny vs other shooters.
I wish the people had a voice and not only streamers and "influential" people who dictated the way a game plays. It seems foreign nowadays that a company listens to their playerbase.
Destiny is not the typical fps shooter. It's not meant and probably never will be an e-sports game. Destiny's ability and shooter centric pvp is something special that most games can't match. I do agree that pvp can be better if bungie had a dedicated team instead of play testing balance changes on the ability side of pvp
That’s always an interesting statement, given the fact there was once upon a time bungie was stepping their toes into possible esports for destiny. Literally had a few events where they would bring a lot of the pvp streamers and content creators and had them duke it out. Destiny balance doesn’t even matter especially when you have battle royales being esports. The only reason destiny pvp isn’t an e sport is because bungie doesn’t support it that way. When curse of Osiris dlc was a bust, I would imagine there was a conversation in that office of theirs about dropping support for pvp drastically in exchange for focusing more money and effort into pve. The players who would play it at that esport level are there. They have been here the whole time. Plenty of them even host their own tourneys with money rewards. Destiny has always had that potential. But without support of the developer themselves and a proper dedicated pvp team, it won’t ever happen. Not cause the players aren’t there.
@@cerebralassassin2185 yeh maybe but feedback from a person who plays pvp every day compared to a guy who jumped on the game for views is a big difference lol
@@derrickwoods-wq4kk but they made a game and they aren't going to just change it due to some more people watching it, they have created a universe and won't just dump it bc shroud wants every game to be like COD
This is a suggestion for a new PvP game mode. And no the point is that the gunplay in Destiny feels fantastic but gets covered up by ability spam, stupid cheesy mechanics and exploits. The fact that Bungie was bought out by Sony for billions of dollars and they haven't made a dedicated PvP team to support a large portion of their playerbase is insulting.
@@brothatscrazy3418because abilities are a HUGE thing in their game. You want it without powers? Go play COD. Everything you listed is what makes Destiny, Destiny so they get rid of that for a game mode it's literally just playing COD
@@lxvius Tell that to the entirety of the PvP community that has been nonstop complaining about ability spam for years. You're also missing the point of what they were even talking about. He was asking for a completely separate mode. Most people love the gunplay and movement mechanics of D2 but at the same time many people dislike how imbalanced abilities are in general for PvP. They have already created a game mode where you essentially have constant uptime on abilities so having one where ability regen is far slower should be no big dea.
Also, Destiny pvp is so different to anything else. It seems the only similarities with other games is the 1st person pov, and the pvp modes. Gun play, armor, classes, aspects, stats, perks, abilities, subclasses, movement etc etc etc. So many variables, not even including PvE content and how that influences the sandbox. The game will always be in a really good state or a really bad state. That's the nature of high variables.
@@johndufrene6250 that’s what I meant, is that they all have similar aspects, if we’re talking about feel though the feel of the game is literally halo
@@shanman3 agree, same shit with the no build for Fortnite. I will be pissed if they ever did a no ability for destiny. Abilities is what makes destiny destiny, if people dont like it you have cod, csgo, valorant, apex, as traditional fps games
@@Edge8829 That doesn't matter? Idk what he plays, but someone who is a pro in cod let's say isn't going to know what's best in destiny. That makes no sense lol
Yes Shroud, let's rebalance an entire game and franchise to be more focused on an activity that takes up less than 10 percent of the total game. We shouldn't just let it be it's own game, we *must* make all games with any pvp the exact same as each other so they all suck.
This is why PVP is second to PvE. They built destiny for PVE and PVP is just for fun. I feel like pvp players are jumping for hope because shroud is saying something about pvp.
@@andrewpaschall8992 anyone who’s actually good at the game has been screaming for non ability type game mode, it would actually take skill instead of the ability spamming bots lol
Why would we remove abilities? That’s literally destiny? If u want to improve something ability’s and class should be the priority imo . And I frankly think the gun system is alright rn u just need to find what ur comfortable with
Nah man. This ain’t about to be like call of duty. Destiny still maintains its creativity and I love that. Playing against people with literally complete different weapons and powers is amazing and interesting. He just wants things to be more like call of duty and basic.
@@andrewpaschall8992 very goofy, I noticed recently Fortnite doesn’t have any and it actually messed up my sniping cuz I compensated for a mechanic that isn’t there lol
So I wouldn’t mind the idea of consolidating players into “one class” that can choose between all the abilities warlocks, hunters and titans have. According to Destiny Lore, guardian abilities are more or less learned and just depicted by how each “class” uses the light. Realistically why couldn’t a hunter use a ward of Dawn? Or a Titan a golden gun? It would create a lot better build crafting to say the least.
There is a differences between lore and gameplay, the lore can't excuse or rebuild the gameplay entirely, destiny gameplay is class based If you want to do such a thing in pvp why pve can't have the same? And then the game will be a giant mess. Gg
Shroud doesn't know the game enough at all to give a relevant opinion. With the state of crucible now, the most comepative changes they could do js no exotics, standardize stats across the mode with say all players having tier 7 in everything in spite of armor, and maybe have it even be guns only. (that's probably too far) Changes like this would be the best way to "fix" pvp, especially if it's only in comp. That way you can still have all classes compete with strengths and weakness while subclasses are treated as characters that can be independently buffed and nerfed as needed with enough variance between the main classes to still have trade offs. However the primary issue with sweeping changes like that is that simply put is a lot of work and its a hard sell for bungie to put that much effort into a mode that fundimentaly brings no direct revenue in since its open to even FtP players. Additionally comp would get very stale very quickly since exotics and to a lesser extent Stat distribution are the main things that vary from player to player. Especially the more competitive those players are. That's why seeing something like a warlock with tarrahba, ophidians, on dawn blade is more likely than seeing someone running sweet business which a exotic you are given immediately as a new light. The primary shake ups that would affect leader would either be whole class reworks like when the light 3.0s dropped or a new subclass all together like Strand. Something that doesn't really fix the issue since the several month period each season is would be its own set in stone meta only slightly shifting as new exotics are discovered like when a raid drops, provided that exotic is both hard to get and meta defining. TL:DR Shroud really shouldn't be giving balance advice on a shooter/sandbox he has played in for barely even double digit hours in.
It would be cool to see things change depending on if ur in pvp or pve, kinda like how in warframe mechanics change completely in conclave. It's a nice thought but probably won't be done
@MackNcheese the point wasn't about the amount of ppl that play, it was about pointing out other games can make pvp only mechanics so destiny definitely can as well, they just most likely won't
99% of shrouds opinions are about him wanting the game to be top of the line competitive. Destiny will never be that way for many reasons. Shrouds cool and all, but this opinion is an L take
Yeah, I do pvp maybe a few times a year, if there’s iron banner, or a good adept in Trials I’ll try and go flawless, but let’s be honest here PvE is what makes destiny, Destiny, it’s the best game in its genre and is one of the best games around right now, has its flaws, but there’s absolutely nothing that compared to getting 6 friends and doing a raid.
I hate every streamer that plays a game doesn’t understand it or barely even touches it but still try’s to give opinions on it of what should be changed
When everyone references COD instead of Halo, those are the ones that are really misguided. Stripped down Destiny would resemble a Halo titles thanks to the movement, TTK and modified BLAM engine. It would simply have a huge sandbox in comparison. A mode like this is coming, called Checkmate and a lot of us have wanted it forever. The games core is nothing like COD. Bash Shroud all you want, but mistaking Destiny’s core this bad is worse, especially from those that play the game.
I mean I’d like d2 trials to be like cs and val where you had limited amounts of grenades / ability usage per round. Destiny 2 is overwhelmingly ability based rather than aim
Sounds like an opinion from someone who plays lots of shooters with uncustomizable characters. He doesn't like the fact that you can create a totally custom build for your class, but he likes the guns and gameplay. Seems like the whole idea of Destiny went right over his head.
I disagree completely. I love how it’s totally different from other shooters and you can use you own abilities with your own techniques that’s are only for your type of character or subclass. I just wished they focused more on pvp updates and rewards.
Actually according to lore the classes are really only a construct of the vanguards categorizing the guardians. Any hunter can be a Titan just as much a warlock can be a hunter. In the lore plenty of guardians prove this by titans performing nova bombs and hunters blinking like a warlock. Technically they are just light bearers. One class would actually work
I’ve said it tens of times on random big name D2 CC’s tweets; D1 beta was the most balanced the game has EVER been- limited subclass perks, no legendaries/exotics, one of each weapon type, no broken weapon perks ie Kill Clip etc, and it had the ‘Destiny identity’ everyone screams about when you suggest stripping back this game to make it less of a gimmick shooter. Scorched takes away literally everything except jump- still Destiny. Use labs, trial a mode that actually has a chance of being balanced. Point I’m making is, loot based PvP is impossible to balance. Just as a rough example; you have 10 smgs that all need to have varying stats to justify having 10 smgs, and one then has stats that outperform it’s own weapon type and creep into territory they shouldn’t excel in. Add perks on top of that, and it does in fact break any chance of balance. Every outlier is an exotic or legendary god roll doing more than it should. Exotic armour has the same impact. D1 Beta, uncommon tier loot, one or two of each weapon type, no perks that temporarily have them overstep their boundaries- most balanced the crucible ever has been and ever will be. It’s an undeniable fact.
I mean if they are that upset about pvp instead of asking them to remake re balance or what ever instead ask them to make a stand alone game based around destiny style but pvp only because what he's asking for is litteraly a completely different type of game.
Shroud didnt play D2 long enough to form enough of an opinion on D2 pvp, the issue with D2 pvp is 1:the bullet magnetism 2:overpowered builds/power creep Shroud didnt know that since he wasnt that into destiny's and probably didnt even know about bullets magnetism at all
We need a real ranking system, leaderboards, and turn trials in a tournaments. Honestly The balancing is just fine, the game plays beautifully. We just need a place to put our energy that feels good.
@@Suigeneris999 maybe not leaderboards but I would like a tier ranking to trials so it's more competitive. Random players and a 7 win streak isn't that cool, especially when you get a couple matches of garbage players, they need there own tier challenge. There is no glory in trials after you've been flawless a hand full of times, nothing to bring you back. Now being an ascendant trials winner would be a goal to run for. But even still I would prefer a tournament setting for a 0 loss in order to achieve victory, all against people my rank. That is real comp, that is what the game lacks that keeps more long term players. All they are doing to trials is making it easier to go flawless, that tickles no competitive bones, and this is supposed to be their most competitive playlist.
Dedication is what I've been trying to focus with destiny pvp but people that play for fun kind of does criticize people that wanna have fun by being dedicated to play well too
im sure that he means no abilities, but a part of me thinks he also might mean one class or no classes being that maybe you can incorporate void/solar or blah blah blah into a class? i think thatd be really fun for pvp, especially with the additions bungies added for building your guardian and allow for some crazy builds
One class can be frag grenades, throwable melle, class abilities stay the same. Then yeah just weapons. Or an option for a health mister, barrier or dodge.
People like shroud and other twitch streamers are the reason that average players like myself who don’t enjoy sweating their way through every piece of content in the game now get to deal with ridiculous light level caps on standard activities, not to mention the horrible pvp experience that already exists…. Particularly in trials…. Pretty sure the majority would be better off if bungie didn’t listen to the opinions of such a tiny percentage of the player base.
One balance change I could see it loadout locking. It's pretty annoying to play pvp and do well, just to see the enemy team switch on "Meta" weapons to secure the win. This is especially prevalent in trials. Was winning a game of 3-0 and suddenly the whole team decided to switch it up and put on immortals, Jotunn, le monarque and witherhoard and BXR. Switching your loadout in the middle of a game shouldn't be allowed as it literally allows players to crutch on certain gear if needed. And another balance change I keep thinking about is "No Exotic" weapons. That way it's just legendary guns (switch are all still great) but now you won't feel like "Wow I just lost that gunfight because he used that exotics perk to secure the win." Etc
It would be like saying make it so there’s one gun in CSGO, bruh it just doesn’t work. The classes are what makes the game and how you play with your team and your weapon comp, just like any other game out there, it’s whether you’re willing to adapt to the game or not. Not try and change the core of the game after playing it for a few weeks
Worst idea I’ve ever heard. He basically said “Make it Call of Duty” when he said no classes and guns only. He’s good at FPS but that was just dumb. It would be like going into WoW and saying they should just rebalance it to have only swords and axes with no magic, abilities, or classes.
Yea it’s a pretty stupid idea to begin with. Destiny 2 is mostly a pve game with pvp, not a pvp game with pve. The classes are there for both story, the games concept as a whole, and for variety. Oh you want the weapon balancing to be more focused on the pvp side when it’s a game most people play for the pve aspect? Crazy
The abilities are the only thing that separates this game from every other FPS.. i think the uptime being changes like they did on checkmate is a good balance.
Personally I always wanted to see a straight up weapons only mode and see how that plays out, obviously with weapons like immortal constantly being everywhere you walk it may not be fun but I would want to see how it plays out without ability spam.
It doesn't need to have what it has taken away. However. The game does need a barebones mode. No supers, grenades and abilities are picked up from the map, along with weapons. Everyone starts with the same gun. Focus more on the gunplay and controlling and locking down parts of the map for weapon pickups and stuff.
![Easy Calus Boss Cheese - Final Lightfall Mission Desperate Measures (Legendary) [Destiny 2]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/4PjBo3XoK-8/mqdefault.jpg)
"Make this game like every other game I play so it's palatable to me"
The dedicated pvp team isnt a bad idea. A destint version of gun game could be fun-ish as a mode. But he def loss credibility with the ine class thing lmao
Yeah, literally
Dude most of the destiny player base hates pvp
Well considering the overwhelming majority of the d2 fan base hates the pvp maybe the a pro fps player has a point
@@mcphilosoraptor7310 he would be a god amongst men if he decided to take the game seriously
Shroud on his way to make every game like valorant or cod
"One class or no class. And only weapons." Hm, that sounds a lot like any fps shooters like call of duty, etc.
Or like halo
Well tell them to fully balance the game then
@@Belloc_The_Hallow well technically all FPS shooters are like Halo. Halo 1 pioneered the whole 2 thumbsticks, sticky aim/aim assist, 2 weapon sandbox that basically every FPS game since has followed.
@Nathan Rigger OK so like halo too
@@nathanrigger15doom was the first fps
Let’s rebalance and take all the things that make destiny 2 away
Honestly I think the things that make destiny 2, inherently destroy pvp. You can’t play this game only as a pvp player. You have to play pve to get specific guns you need. Abilities make this game not appealable to people who are into normal fps games. I believe if bungie actually wants people to play pvp, they need to simplify it.
For me, I don’t play pvp because of abilities. I’m pretty good at fps games, but that habit of relying on gun play does not carry over well in this game when taking abilities and supers into consideration.
@@id1550 the thing that makes destiny 2 pvp destiny 2 pvp are the abilities and supers. It also makes sence that youd need to at least play the pve side of destiny to get weapons
@@id1550 people play destiny because it is different from other fps games the problem is that they are terrible at balancing things and always will be
@@localblackman5970 nah bruh what makes destiny pvp is gunplay. abilities and supers were HARDLY a problem in d1, and why did people still play? gunplay
@@riothegod1831 you must be joshing me bruh. Every fps has gunplay, although none will ever feel the same they all have a unique feel. But what really sets destiny apart from other fps games? Its the abilitys
Shrouds tldr opinion: please make destiny 2 into another cod clone
What's tldr?
@@verlinjules1155to long, didn't read
@@axt_4254 Bro, verlin’s comment was literally two words. C’mon man.
I’m making a joke btw.
Also
You should have used “too” instead of “to”
Honestly it'd be better than the mess that is d2's current PvP, but still they should find a way to rebalance the game but maybe not with the one class thing.
@@Nozzinator no it wouldn’t. Destiny pvp isn’t the best but it’s unique because of the abilities you have. Why would you want basically a version of black ops 3 in destiny?
Bro does NOT know what he’s saying 😭😭😭🔥🔥🔥
destiny 6s should be guns only lol, 6s would actually be decent if that was the case
@@exhoduz7746 except destiny isn’t a normal fps game. Quit trying to say abilities should be gone, it’s not fucking call of duty.
@exhoduz7746 No they wouldn't.
Everyone would play with pulses and scouts and shotguns. You would singlehandedly kill pvp.
I can tell you never top the leaderboard.
@@Kizen. people already ape around with Shotgun’s still and even with ability spam the way it is there’s 0 reason why you couldn’t just use scout and Pulse rifles other then the fact that scout rifles are shit and hand cannons have the same range as pulse rifles still since like all of these maps are mid-close range. There’s like 2-3 maps that could actually use scout rifles and the moment the other team stops fighting “outside” and decides to go “inside” you’re suddenly running a hand cannon again or a SMG because it’s just so damn close.
@@exhoduz7746 No.
Destiny isn't supposed to be balanced, it's supposed to be fun
unbalanced isnt fun
@@wiu1989
Depends
@@wiu1989 do you play destiny? That shit is fun
@@Potatoman023 PvE's great but the PvP in D2's a joke 💀
@@wiu1989 skill issue
The bathroom after taco Tuesday is more appealing than his idea
So essentially halo, he wants halo.
A person like shroud should stay with what he is good at
Playing dumb PvP only batte royal games and reeeeing about any other type of game that's 10× better?
Shit better then paying like a dumbass for the same content ever 4 months 😂😂😭😂😂😂😂
@@_Chaosnight_ lol “10x better.”
So... nothing?
@@AzureVoltic wasn’t he a cs go pro?
Don’t let sweat Lord pros dictate how games are made or balanced 😂 ….especially destiny
In pvp? It's better than some old head complaining about hunter dodge and the stompees nerf. Now I'm forced to use a ability spam exotic
"Why don't they just make this story game a pvp game guys?"
He’s talking about how they should change the pvp genius… not anything to do outside of pvp…🤦🏽
Ong pvp saved destiny 1 so its more then a story game. And if this is peak story by god help you. Its not the story thats keeping it alive its the loot
@@riioas5543 that emoji makes you feel pretty smart huh
@@fang4853 coping hard. People don’t buy DLCs for PvP.
@@shadowvurta1624 I mean there's plenty of people that buy DLCs for Trials access, I feel bad if you actually bought ligthfall for that dumpster fire of a story
Shrouds idea is basically let’s take the destiny out of destiny
Hard pass on all of the above
Except for maybe a pvp team
@@ethanhensley9355 Yeah, only viable idea he gave
The PvP team is the only good idea
and i mean HARD pass
Let's just make Destiny not Destiny. They need to remove SBMM , prioritize connection, release new maps and content and that's all it needs. PVP in Destiny 2 doesn't need to try to be an esport, it just needs to be FUN AND REWARDING. It's a looter shooter not an esport, it's OK if PVP is straight up crazy as long as its fun (i.e. no cheaters, no teleporting laggers from 1/2 way across the world and no SBMM forcing every game to be a slow sweaty slog)
Holy a guy who is speaking straight facts I love your thoughts for pvp really does sound amazing is it too much too dream for sadge
As a shitty pvp player who wants to play pvp for trials and iron banner the SBMM has made crucible a lot more enjoyable recently. But as a mainly pve guy I understand the pvp aspect of it so I just want a mix between the two. Like give me the best connection with people who are not sweats like me cause seriously despise pvp
A lack of sbmm isn't fun and rewarding, it ends in me getting steamrolled over, and over, and over again because the fresh outta flawless team rolls up on me and a group of blueberries for fifteen matches straight. Not fun, glad they implemented it so at least I know the adept immortal suckers are on my level, and outplaying them is an option. 😊
This
Yet it does lag. Exotics with extended melee range has people rubber banding all over the place. Killing someone and than dying to them half a second later from a melee attack. Dedicated servers and a team focusing on PvP purely will fix everything, including adding new maps and balancing the clearly overwhelming special weapons and ability spam. There should really be a game mode that has reduced ability recharge rates.
In my opinion Shroud is one of the few people on the planet who shouldn't be allowed to have opinions
Shrouds idea sounds more like year 1 destiny 2 that we all know how well that did for the playerbase
Funny how I don't recall him playing back then
Nobody tell him about apex. Man would have a heart attack 😂
Obviously this man has different preference. I respect his opinion, but almost everything he said other than having a dedicated PvP team would just destroy the image of the game as whole.
Pretty much he wants this game to be like college to be like call the duty and the other games that he plays I've been playing this since destiny Week 1 If he doesn't like it then he should play another game that would interest him again that would interest him because destiny is a Halo clone
@@davidspearim5552 agree, he should just play halo
@@Potatoman023 Maybe but I wouldn't suggest turning destiny Into another cod clone I like destiny the way it is
@@davidspearim5552 thats what im saying, it seems like shroud just wants another modern shooter because he cant jump in destiny being good. Theres a major skill gap with destiny vs other shooters.
I wish the people had a voice and not only streamers and "influential" people who dictated the way a game plays. It seems foreign nowadays that a company listens to their playerbase.
Destiny is not the typical fps shooter. It's not meant and probably never will be an e-sports game. Destiny's ability and shooter centric pvp is something special that most games can't match. I do agree that pvp can be better if bungie had a dedicated team instead of play testing balance changes on the ability side of pvp
That’s always an interesting statement, given the fact there was once upon a time bungie was stepping their toes into possible esports for destiny. Literally had a few events where they would bring a lot of the pvp streamers and content creators and had them duke it out. Destiny balance doesn’t even matter especially when you have battle royales being esports.
The only reason destiny pvp isn’t an e sport is because bungie doesn’t support it that way. When curse of Osiris dlc was a bust, I would imagine there was a conversation in that office of theirs about dropping support for pvp drastically in exchange for focusing more money and effort into pve.
The players who would play it at that esport level are there. They have been here the whole time. Plenty of them even host their own tourneys with money rewards.
Destiny has always had that potential. But without support of the developer themselves and a proper dedicated pvp team, it won’t ever happen. Not cause the players aren’t there.
@@zerax3338 having a looter shooter be an eSport is an inherently bad idea
Bro he’s spitting straight ASS 🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯
if they are going to listen to anyone its going to be people like zk not shroud :L
I think there's better streamers to listen than both of them lol.
@@cerebralassassin2185 yeh maybe but feedback from a person who plays pvp every day compared to a guy who jumped on the game for views is a big difference lol
@@smokedogg5940 destiny pvp**
Shroud is way more solidified than ZK his history on FPS games is ridiculous the crowd he would bring to D2 alone is why they def would listen to him.
@@derrickwoods-wq4kk but they made a game and they aren't going to just change it due to some more people watching it, they have created a universe and won't just dump it bc shroud wants every game to be like COD
Shroud forgetting that hes playing a PVE game with a PVP gamemode
No he’s saying the pvp should be it’s own separate entity and be balanced accordingly. ie him saying they need a dedicated pvp team
Destiny 2 players on their way to called Destiny 2 a PvE game becuase they suck at PvP
@@sparky00777it is a pve looter shooter😭😭
Sure…..go play CoD
This is a suggestion for a new PvP game mode. And no the point is that the gunplay in Destiny feels fantastic but gets covered up by ability spam, stupid cheesy mechanics and exploits. The fact that Bungie was bought out by Sony for billions of dollars and they haven't made a dedicated PvP team to support a large portion of their playerbase is insulting.
@@brothatscrazy3418because abilities are a HUGE thing in their game. You want it without powers? Go play COD. Everything you listed is what makes Destiny, Destiny so they get rid of that for a game mode it's literally just playing COD
@@dropkick3024 That's wild considering ability spam has been a massive issue for years now and it's not like it could have been a separate game mode.
@@brothatscrazy3418issue? Thats called fun my guy.
@@lxvius Tell that to the entirety of the PvP community that has been nonstop complaining about ability spam for years. You're also missing the point of what they were even talking about. He was asking for a completely separate mode. Most people love the gunplay and movement mechanics of D2 but at the same time many people dislike how imbalanced abilities are in general for PvP. They have already created a game mode where you essentially have constant uptime on abilities so having one where ability regen is far slower should be no big dea.
literally the classes and abilities are what make destiny destiny, the pvp specific team should definitely be a thing tho
Also, Destiny pvp is so different to anything else. It seems the only similarities with other games is the 1st person pov, and the pvp modes.
Gun play, armor, classes, aspects, stats, perks, abilities, subclasses, movement etc etc etc.
So many variables, not even including PvE content and how that influences the sandbox.
The game will always be in a really good state or a really bad state. That's the nature of high variables.
Black ops 4, overwatch, valorant all fps games with different class abilities and ultimate and are fps
@@faded1887 none of those play the same as Destiny 2 PVP. They may have some aspects or similarities, but they aren’t anywhere near the same.
@@johndufrene6250 that’s what I meant, is that they all have similar aspects, if we’re talking about feel though the feel of the game is literally halo
@@faded1887 I disagree. I think halo is way slower. Less dynamic
@@MIKlLLA the core feel is literally halo my boy, it’s how bungie made it
A guns-only game mode that featured once every few weeks for crucible would actually be cool.
such a stupid cod take
@@shanman3 agree, same shit with the no build for Fortnite. I will be pissed if they ever did a no ability for destiny. Abilities is what makes destiny destiny, if people dont like it you have cod, csgo, valorant, apex, as traditional fps games
@@Potatoman023 well said broski
Should be available all the time so people don’t always have to play against ability spamming meta crunching bots with no actual skill 😂
@@Potatoman023 I’m sorry some people would like a game mode that you actually need skill for, I know that’s hard to grasp for someone like you.
Yeah, he knows what's best. He's been playing D2 all this time, not like he didn't just return.
He’s a professional player that won a lot of multiplayer competitions. I think he knows bro😂
@@Edge8829 That doesn't matter? Idk what he plays, but someone who is a pro in cod let's say isn't going to know what's best in destiny. That makes no sense lol
@@kylo7118 cod??
@@InvisibleBiscuit call of duty, you doughnut 🍩
@@Spook85 nah I know what cod is..
Shroud is a pro cs go and valarant player.
Only played warzone for fun and was still a beast.
Yes Shroud, let's rebalance an entire game and franchise to be more focused on an activity that takes up less than 10 percent of the total game. We shouldn't just let it be it's own game, we *must* make all games with any pvp the exact same as each other so they all suck.
This is why PVP is second to PvE. They built destiny for PVE and PVP is just for fun. I feel like pvp players are jumping for hope because shroud is saying something about pvp.
But they built This game around the story
Not a single pvp player thinks shroud said anything of value outside of a dedicated team
@@andrewpaschall8992 anyone who’s actually good at the game has been screaming for non ability type game mode, it would actually take skill instead of the ability spamming bots lol
@@riioas5543 Source: Trust me bro
Shroud came from his dying game to spit some soul sucking advice so he can have another game to "not play"
Why would we remove abilities? That’s literally destiny? If u want to improve something ability’s and class should be the priority imo . And I frankly think the gun system is alright rn u just need to find what ur comfortable with
I agree guns are in a good spot rn, abilities needs to be tweaked a bit but not outright removed
Nah man. This ain’t about to be like call of duty. Destiny still maintains its creativity and I love that. Playing against people with literally complete different weapons and powers is amazing and interesting. He just wants things to be more like call of duty and basic.
Only guns? I'm not against it but this isn't call of duty. If you want only guns just go play cod.
Everyone says that but idk if guys actually played cod cause even if it’s guns only destiny 2 is still completely different
"Dude why dont they take out the diversity and just make it NOT DESTINY?"
"lets make this game like everyother pvp game" LOL. ngl, that take was complete ass.
btw, pvp will never be great. Bungie sucks at pvp. Thats another reason why they sold the IP for Halo.
@@Reezico that's not at all why Bungie "sold" the halo ip nor is crucible guaranteed to be bad
His opinions are designed around no variation. He wants single LO that is top tier rather than play how you want and it can still be decent
That dudes a 🤡
Guns only would be fantastic, haven’t touched destiny for like 6 months now, totally worth it, used to be my favorite game.
For being one of the best PvP players in the world, Shroud can’t snipe for shit.
Garantee he’s better then you in every way
Not used to all that flinch lol 😆
@@VirtualXIV do other games not have as much/any flinch? I don’t really play any other fps so that’s surprising to me
@@andrewbianchi6914 other games have flinch but destiny's is far more severe compared to CSGO and valorant where in acts much more like recoil
@@andrewpaschall8992 very goofy, I noticed recently Fortnite doesn’t have any and it actually messed up my sniping cuz I compensated for a mechanic that isn’t there lol
I'm so glad the creators at Bungie have a much bigger imagination than that
Shroud plays d2 for the first time in how many years? He knows all he is the prophet
So I wouldn’t mind the idea of consolidating players into “one class” that can choose between all the abilities warlocks, hunters and titans have.
According to Destiny Lore, guardian abilities are more or less learned and just depicted by how each “class” uses the light.
Realistically why couldn’t a hunter use a ward of Dawn? Or a Titan a golden gun? It would create a lot better build crafting to say the least.
There is a differences between lore and gameplay, the lore can't excuse or rebuild the gameplay entirely, destiny gameplay is class based
If you want to do such a thing in pvp why pve can't have the same? And then the game will be a giant mess. Gg
Wait there isn’t even a pvp team ?? 😂
Obv not, you see how bad pvp is rn.
Shroud doesn't know the game enough at all to give a relevant opinion.
With the state of crucible now, the most comepative changes they could do js no exotics, standardize stats across the mode with say all players having tier 7 in everything in spite of armor, and maybe have it even be guns only. (that's probably too far)
Changes like this would be the best way to "fix" pvp, especially if it's only in comp.
That way you can still have all classes compete with strengths and weakness while subclasses are treated as characters that can be independently buffed and nerfed as needed with enough variance between the main classes to still have trade offs.
However the primary issue with sweeping changes like that is that simply put is a lot of work and its a hard sell for bungie to put that much effort into a mode that fundimentaly brings no direct revenue in since its open to even FtP players.
Additionally comp would get very stale very quickly since exotics and to a lesser extent Stat distribution are the main things that vary from player to player. Especially the more competitive those players are. That's why seeing something like a warlock with tarrahba, ophidians, on dawn blade is more likely than seeing someone running sweet business which a exotic you are given immediately as a new light.
The primary shake ups that would affect leader would either be whole class reworks like when the light 3.0s dropped or a new subclass all together like Strand. Something that doesn't really fix the issue since the several month period each season is would be its own set in stone meta only slightly shifting as new exotics are discovered like when a raid drops, provided that exotic is both hard to get and meta defining.
TL:DR Shroud really shouldn't be giving balance advice on a shooter/sandbox he has played in for barely even double digit hours in.
That’s the kind of opinion that makes me think “Y’know, maybe we oughta get rid of that pesky first amendment”
Yeap i mean it sounds like a good game mode to test like they doing with check mate
No thank you im fine
Shroud expects for the game to adapt to him rather than him adapt to the game
He wants every game to be a cod like Like the games he plays
@@davidspearim5552 no games he plays are like cod
man I like shroud but that is a bad take
Bro basically said “make this Apex but with stompees”
It would be cool to see things change depending on if ur in pvp or pve, kinda like how in warframe mechanics change completely in conclave. It's a nice thought but probably won't be done
And how many people actually play the PVP in Warframe?
@MackNcheese the point wasn't about the amount of ppl that play, it was about pointing out other games can make pvp only mechanics so destiny definitely can as well, they just most likely won't
Lol guns only is basically 1 class. Unless you count appearances and jumps/boosts as class defining.
99% of shrouds opinions are about him wanting the game to be top of the line competitive. Destiny will never be that way for many reasons. Shrouds cool and all, but this opinion is an L take
As a pve main, whatever makes you guys happy
Yeah, I do pvp maybe a few times a year, if there’s iron banner, or a good adept in Trials I’ll try and go flawless, but let’s be honest here PvE is what makes destiny, Destiny, it’s the best game in its genre and is one of the best games around right now, has its flaws, but there’s absolutely nothing that compared to getting 6 friends and doing a raid.
As a pvp player shroud is completely wrong
He comes from the COD competitive world, we don’t need those opinions on destiny. It’ll ruin the game since the PVP is a secondary role in Destiny
The only thing they need to do is balance pvp and pve separately. Keep everything. Just separate your balancing in both game modes.
I hate every streamer that plays a game doesn’t understand it or barely even touches it but still try’s to give opinions on it of what should be changed
When everyone references COD instead of Halo, those are the ones that are really misguided. Stripped down Destiny would resemble a Halo titles thanks to the movement, TTK and modified BLAM engine. It would simply have a huge sandbox in comparison. A mode like this is coming, called Checkmate and a lot of us have wanted it forever. The games core is nothing like COD. Bash Shroud all you want, but mistaking Destiny’s core this bad is worse, especially from those that play the game.
If you ever feel useless, just remember this guy just records other people's content and sits and watches it again like he's providing something.
Just add a "lightless" playlist no fancy schmansy light just guns but that would be hella boring and get removed almost immediately
Accuracy based matchmaking would fix it. You can truly tell who is using chronos.
Accuracy rates sounds like an OK idea, we just need to be a tad mindful of whether intentionally shooting at a wall can affect the stats
Shows that no matter what pvp centric game you hail from, D2 is wayyy more complex and in depth than any other
Lol I’ve been playing this game for 7 years and didn’t even know there wasn’t a dedicated pvp team until just now
I mean I’d like d2 trials to be like cs and val where you had limited amounts of grenades / ability usage per round. Destiny 2 is overwhelmingly ability based rather than aim
If only Destiny had a player base that enjoyed it as is 🤔
Sounds like an opinion from someone who plays lots of shooters with uncustomizable characters. He doesn't like the fact that you can create a totally custom build for your class, but he likes the guns and gameplay. Seems like the whole idea of Destiny went right over his head.
By one class, does that mean only one class type per match or one locked class for all?
With only guns, there is really a use for the ghosts since they give us powers. The ghosts would then be limited to just reviving us
I disagree completely. I love how it’s totally different from other shooters and you can use you own abilities with your own techniques that’s are only for your type of character or subclass. I just wished they focused more on pvp updates and rewards.
Actually according to lore the classes are really only a construct of the vanguards categorizing the guardians. Any hunter can be a Titan just as much a warlock can be a hunter. In the lore plenty of guardians prove this by titans performing nova bombs and hunters blinking like a warlock. Technically they are just light bearers. One class would actually work
I’ve said it tens of times on random big name D2 CC’s tweets; D1 beta was the most balanced the game has EVER been- limited subclass perks, no legendaries/exotics, one of each weapon type, no broken weapon perks ie Kill Clip etc, and it had the ‘Destiny identity’ everyone screams about when you suggest stripping back this game to make it less of a gimmick shooter. Scorched takes away literally everything except jump- still Destiny. Use labs, trial a mode that actually has a chance of being balanced.
Point I’m making is, loot based PvP is impossible to balance. Just as a rough example; you have 10 smgs that all need to have varying stats to justify having 10 smgs, and one then has stats that outperform it’s own weapon type and creep into territory they shouldn’t excel in. Add perks on top of that, and it does in fact break any chance of balance. Every outlier is an exotic or legendary god roll doing more than it should. Exotic armour has the same impact. D1 Beta, uncommon tier loot, one or two of each weapon type, no perks that temporarily have them overstep their boundaries- most balanced the crucible ever has been and ever will be. It’s an undeniable fact.
I mean if they are that upset about pvp instead of asking them to remake re balance or what ever instead ask them to make a stand alone game based around destiny style but pvp only because what he's asking for is litteraly a completely different type of game.
Shroud didnt play D2 long enough to form enough of an opinion on D2 pvp, the issue with D2 pvp is
1:the bullet magnetism
2:overpowered builds/power creep
Shroud didnt know that since he wasnt that into destiny's and probably didnt even know about bullets magnetism at all
We need a real ranking system, leaderboards, and turn trials in a tournaments. Honestly The balancing is just fine, the game plays beautifully. We just need a place to put our energy that feels good.
Why leaderboards? That’s pointless. Trials shouldn’t be a tournament especially since it’s getting revamped
@@Suigeneris999 maybe not leaderboards but I would like a tier ranking to trials so it's more competitive. Random players and a 7 win streak isn't that cool, especially when you get a couple matches of garbage players, they need there own tier challenge. There is no glory in trials after you've been flawless a hand full of times, nothing to bring you back. Now being an ascendant trials winner would be a goal to run for. But even still I would prefer a tournament setting for a 0 loss in order to achieve victory, all against people my rank. That is real comp, that is what the game lacks that keeps more long term players. All they are doing to trials is making it easier to go flawless, that tickles no competitive bones, and this is supposed to be their most competitive playlist.
Dedication is what I've been trying to focus with destiny pvp but people that play for fun kind of does criticize people that wanna have fun by being dedicated to play well too
Destiny 2 PVP without classes is just Halo PVP With weaker Shields and faster movement.
I mean if it's guns only different classes wouldn't really matter too much. Just have it to where there is only one jump between every class in pvp
im sure that he means no abilities, but a part of me thinks he also might mean one class or no classes being that maybe you can incorporate void/solar or blah blah blah into a class? i think thatd be really fun for pvp, especially with the additions bungies added for building your guardian and allow for some crazy builds
One class can be frag grenades, throwable melle, class abilities stay the same. Then yeah just weapons. Or an option for a health mister, barrier or dodge.
Almost exactly what Bungie intended to do moving from Rise of Iron to Red War.
People like shroud and other twitch streamers are the reason that average players like myself who don’t enjoy sweating their way through every piece of content in the game now get to deal with ridiculous light level caps on standard activities, not to mention the horrible pvp experience that already exists…. Particularly in trials…. Pretty sure the majority would be better off if bungie didn’t listen to the opinions of such a tiny percentage of the player base.
Saying Destiny getting rid of classes, is like say Warframe should get rid of Warframes.
Yep
One balance change I could see it loadout locking. It's pretty annoying to play pvp and do well, just to see the enemy team switch on "Meta" weapons to secure the win.
This is especially prevalent in trials. Was winning a game of 3-0 and suddenly the whole team decided to switch it up and put on immortals, Jotunn, le monarque and witherhoard and BXR.
Switching your loadout in the middle of a game shouldn't be allowed as it literally allows players to crutch on certain gear if needed.
And another balance change I keep thinking about is "No Exotic" weapons. That way it's just legendary guns (switch are all still great) but now you won't feel like "Wow I just lost that gunfight because he used that exotics perk to secure the win." Etc
It would be like saying make it so there’s one gun in CSGO, bruh it just doesn’t work. The classes are what makes the game and how you play with your team and your weapon comp, just like any other game out there, it’s whether you’re willing to adapt to the game or not. Not try and change the core of the game after playing it for a few weeks
Worst idea I’ve ever heard. He basically said “Make it Call of Duty” when he said no classes and guns only. He’s good at FPS but that was just dumb. It would be like going into WoW and saying they should just rebalance it to have only swords and axes with no magic, abilities, or classes.
Yea it’s a pretty stupid idea to begin with. Destiny 2 is mostly a pve game with pvp, not a pvp game with pve. The classes are there for both story, the games concept as a whole, and for variety. Oh you want the weapon balancing to be more focused on the pvp side when it’s a game most people play for the pve aspect? Crazy
Dedicated pvp team sounds like the game will live forever then
What Shroud said is called "Common Sense"
That’s what makes destiny different ! I would personally like a mode where there is no supers and that’s all really
different doesn’t mean good, pvp has been on a constant decline since witch queen 🫠
The abilities are the only thing that separates this game from every other FPS.. i think the uptime being changes like they did on checkmate is a good balance.
So what you're saying is he made a new character, played enough to unlock crucible and played one match and this is his opinion
Shroud is saying everything lucky has said 10x over the years
I’ve been wanting guns only for years. The crucible is just who has abilities. Oh and who has a special weapon
They have a dedicated pvp team they have been working on marathon for that last 2 years
Personally I always wanted to see a straight up weapons only mode and see how that plays out, obviously with weapons like immortal constantly being everywhere you walk it may not be fun but I would want to see how it plays out without ability spam.
PVP should be guns only, No abilities or supers. Or at least a separate mode that is like that. Other than that PVP is not good enough.
It doesn't need to have what it has taken away. However. The game does need a barebones mode. No supers, grenades and abilities are picked up from the map, along with weapons. Everyone starts with the same gun. Focus more on the gunplay and controlling and locking down parts of the map for weapon pickups and stuff.
Shroud sounds like a cod guy who doesn’t like he’s not playing cod
They should make a kinetic subclass where everyone gets the same stuff
Titans would finally get the last laugh, as all three classes get a kinetic punch super
Top 10 bad ideas