Swiss Straight-Pulls Episode 1: General Overview
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 ก.พ. 2017
- As the start of a looooong series looking at each of the Swiss straight-pulls from the 1889 to the K31, The Bloke gives a short (ha!) overview of the series, and the context of the Swiss militia system in which they existed.
Yeah, there's a couple of ad breaks. Sorry. But it helps to support what we do here at BotR so please be understanding. Also, I corrected an incorrect velocity with an annotation (that those viewing on mobile won't see) - GP11 is about 2550 fps, not 2600/2650.
Featuring the models:
Schmidt-Rubin 1889
Mannlicher 1893 carbine
1889/96 (in person!)
1897 Cadet rifle
1900 short rifle
1905 carbine
K11
K00/11
G11
G96/11 and
K31
Also features possibly the TH-cam's first demonstration of the rare and elusive DM-Lader, the Swiss Mauser-style charger / stripper clip!
Patreon: / blokeontherange
Facebook: / blokeontherange
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Nice work!
So when can we expect a Bloke-Jesus crossover?
pro trick : watch series at Kaldrostream. Me and my gf have been using them for watching a lot of movies during the lockdown.
@Chandler Brooks Yup, I have been using KaldroStream for months myself :)
Looking forward to learning about these rifles, as I know only a little of their history. Thanks very much!
Great stuff. You sir, are well on your way to becoming the Swiss equivalent of the Forgotten Weapons youtube channel that we have in America. I give you and your videos high praise. P.S., as a U.S. Army infantry veteran, I really admire the Swiss military organization and purpose. I wish that the United States could emulate it more. We Americans have gotten ourselves stuck in some really sticky messes, but that's another subject. Great channel, love shooting the G11 and K31. Awesome rifles.
Bogus Mosin the best part of the swiss system is crime is low. Virtually every house has a rifle posessed by a member of the militia. not worth guessing if there was someone home or not.
@@darrylrossetti6496 we dont have a home defense culture. i dont know anybody that keeps rifles accessible. theyre purely sporting and homeland defense items. the low crime rate doesnt really have anything to do with our guns. more with social welfare and equal opportunity.
Growing desire for a k31 has brought me to this delightful rabbit hole
Bloke, bloke on the range,
Where the gun guys and the hoplophiles play,
Where seldom is heard a discouraging word,
And the skies are not cloudy all day.
BoTR gets poetry! Awesome
Hoplolololo lolo lolo
OH HO HO HO
Excellent video for Swiss rifle fans nice explanations I want to know more about my K11 now
Beautiful videos and one can very quickly catch the Swiss rifle bug! I've ended up with a K31 (which I enjoy shooting with the K type diopter set, as well as on open sights and a Rusan no-drill mount which I use for deer stalking), and a couple of obsoletes.
I like your info shared. Giving a different perspective talking about which gun a soldier might be taking home with them.
I got my K31 from the grand doughter of the chap that got it 1940 for his service :-)
One of the most interesting videos I have ever watched Job well done sir!
thank you VERY much for the in depth videos on these rifles!
so glad to have subscribed to your channel. purchased a k1911 carbine this week. and I am happy to have such a fine rifle from Switzerland. greetings from Virginia. USA
As a recent subscriber, I have to say I thoroughly enjoy each and every one of your videos. I particularly appreciate the historical aspects of your information and also quite enjoy the explanation of the progression of models as you have done in these two episodes. Thank you so very much from Canada for your well researched and well explained material. It has *all* been a pleasure to watch. The fact that I quite enjoy British humour doesn't hurt the cause one whit.
Cheers
Nice work. Looking forward to learning about all of them.
Well, I have seen this videos before, but C&Rsenal just covered the 1911s and so I am back for another viewing... Always a good effort, Bloke!
Same! I’ve watched this 4 times now and will order my 3rd Swiss straight pull tomorrow an 00/11!
hypnotic not possible not to watch till the very end thanks for making this film
Looking forward to the individual episodes. Well done on the overview!
Thanks alot eh, purchased my first Schmidt Rubin this evening and this video was really helpful in orientation. Really appreciate your videos
Thanks very much for sharing this thoroughly enjoyable review of (what I think is) the most innovative rifle of its time. My favourite Military surplus firearm, by a 'long shot'!
Very thorough summary of the Swiss straight-pull bolt action rifles. Shouldn't be missed!
Just picked up a full sized 1911 on a whim and it is turning out to be one of my favorite rifles! Really kicking myself for not grabbing a nice K31 when they were readily available here in the US. Can't wait to learn more about each of these and keep up the great work!
Now that's thorough! Nice work.
Absoluty love your videos! Very interesting!
I can't wait to watch the entire series. Thank you.
One of these years I'll even finish it off!!!!! XD
This is an amazing because in the US there are kind of a lot of myths about he Swiss culture/ military and arms. Thanks again for another great video.
Awesome work! I'm so glad I found your channel. I never knew that the k rifles could accept mauser style stripper clips.
Hi Bloke, Just discovered your channel and really enjoying it! You've done some really great videos man! I am a total Swiss rifle junky/ milsurp junky myself owning 2 K-31's Thanks for sharing your vast knowledge of firearms w/ your viewers! You just got yourself a new subscriber- Keep up the great work! - Cheers!
"OH 'NO' IT'S THE FRENCH"
This phrase/the original oughta be a meme wherever the topic of the invention of smokeless powder is concerned.
isnt the cavalry carbine (second from the left) derived from the mannlicher?
6:37
Bloke on the Range didn’t forgotten weapons do a video on it
Fetchez la vache!
It pretty much is in Othias’ discussions of the “rush to smokeless” in C&Rsenal’s awesome series on weapons of WWI.
Lot's of good thing's to look forward to.
Those Mauser clips must have been common at some point. I remember that my grandfather, who was a cavalry officer issued with the parabellum pistol but none the less an enthusiast Langewehr 11 shooter, used those to feed his Langewehr. The Langewehr was the holy grale for his generation. Anyway, when we cleared our attic including my ancestors arsenal, a box turned up with about a dozen of these Mauser clips filled with GP11 from the 1930's. The cases were covered with verdigris, but the bullets were wax covered and somewhat red-ish.
This is great!I never knew about the Mauser style clip being used.
That's a table full of sexy right there
Great stuff! Really looking forward to more details on the m1893 cavalry carbine.
I recently purchased two Swiss milsurps, so looking forward to learning more about them.
-Jen
One of my good friends father is Swiss, his mother is French he was born in Los Angeles and carries three passports. This dad still has his K31 from his service in the Swiss army. Love this looking forward to this series.
Great video, well delivered and really informative, learnt a ton, thanks :-)
Thank you for this video! You got me into the Swiss surplus rifles and helped me make up my mind on getting a K11. Love the history of these rifles and found out a lot about my rifle as well with your help! Its a 1917 production, matching parts, troop tag, and privatized after service in 1922. Thank you again!
No problems. Just one point though - no K11's were privatised until after 1960. You've probably got a post-1964 P mark near to a 1922 renovation date.
@@BlokeontheRange
Oh well I may have misspoke. I believe this rifle was taken home by the man it was issued to as my P mark is below the serial number on the receiver and not before inline with serial number. I could be mistaken though and still learning about this rifle so my apologies xD
Great Vid. "Keep them coming"
i have so wanted some one to do this wite so manny other wepons im glad to see you going for it
Guter Kanal und interessante Beiträge. Ich beneide Euch um Eure tollen Schiessstände.
the appeal of collecting these is beyond me, each to their own
Wow, what a wonderful collection you have. I have had a K-31 since the early 2000's and just recently obtained my K-11. I wish I would have invested in more into these over the years since the prices have risen by more than double on most variants in the US over the last 20 years. Aside from the Swiss rifles is the amazing GP11 ammunition which, to me, is like match grade military issue ammo.
Just found your video. Great work. I found an original 1889 Schmidt Rubin in an antique store the barrel was shortened and the stock sporterized but for $170 the rifle is in excellent condition. I did a camber casting and following the reloading info from Murphys muskets now have an excellent rifle. I believe it was most likely converted in Switzerland because it looks identical to others I’ve found on line that where converted for civilian use before finding their way to the US.
Great stuff.
cracking stuff, thanks. K.
it's finally here
yay!
And here I thought it was going to be a long one... didn't even notice the 25 min. were past until you said you were going to end it.... so, very interesting indeed :)
I have a 4 digit serial G11 and I’m led to believe it’s a private owned rifle. Based on the short serial number and my further research into swiss rifle databases. It’s in absolutely beautiful condition. It even has a small metal name plate embossed onto the rear stock. Got it from the importer that way. I can tell the rifle has a story, I wish it could tell me!
If it's not prefixed with a P, it'll be a 96/11 converted from a private 89/96 where the gunsmith stamped just the digits of the s/n on the receiver (they were on the rearsight base for the private series 89/96's)
Well done. I am looking forward to this series very much! Did any of these rifles come equiped with optics?
Very cool.
This video was brilliant! Looking forward to see the rest of the series. Any chance of doing something similar for SG57?
Does that mean I finally need to clean mine then?
c&rsenal reference :D so hard not to have a chuckle hearing mannlicher
Just got my great grandfather's Schmitt 89 moose rifle. Its sporterized and rechambered for 30-30. Also got my grandfather's model 94 (pre 64) in 30-30. It was his moose gun as well. Cant wait to shoot em.
Just picked up a 1934 dated serial K31. Mirror bore, , Exc metal, VG stock, all matching numbers...
I have to say I really rather enjoyed this video I have started to get a bit of an attraction to swiss rifles, I do own a k31 (one of my favorites) and this video has made me just want to expand my collection of Swiss rifles (now that I have 1 rifle from the 5 major countries in world War 2) only thing is I've found is people are slightly nervous selling to a 20 year old (guess they're scared I'll bubba it, which I wouldn't dream of)
Hi Bloke, great channel. Love it. What's your day job?
K31s were pretty cheap here in Canada until people realized what a good rifle they are, people don't seem to have quite picked up on the G96/11 yet, but I bought one not long ago and I think I might enjoy it a little more than my K31.
The K11s are available as well, though many of the ones I've seen were converted to .30-30 Winchester and in horrific condition. The story I've heard is that they were popular with seal hunters, exposure to salt water and almost no maintenance destroyed them pretty quickly.
Patiently waiting for episode 8 and beyond! Very educational thank you. Can you please tell me where the caliber mark is on my newly acquired 1911? It is all matching numbers except the bolt knob which has a different number. Thanks.....
There is no calibre mark unless it got a civilian CIP proof somewehere.
GOT ME THAT K1911 !
LOVE IT. BUT THERE ARE NO MORE DISTRIBUTORS WHO SUPPLY IT FOR SALE?
Being a Swiss armourer and supply wallah must have been mindbendingly complicated.
fastmongrel It's a good job the Swiss are masters at organising and strictly following protocols
@@thebotrchap and incredibly exploitable, buddy of mine wanted new trousers and went to the armory asking for a replacement to witch he said this isn't damaged so he can't give out new ones for free so my buddy got his knife and shredded his old trousers infront of the armory gave 'em back and got a new pair for free.
burnerheinz Perfect example!
I'd like to request an overview of the accouterments for these rifle (slings, ammo pouches, cleaning kits, bayonets). Something for us collectors across the pond.
Well this ought to be enlightening! I have a K11K and a K31. What would be nice to weave in is any call up of reserves during a period and who had what rifles. For example during the early part of WWII vs later on when K31 production caught up what mobilizations occurred.
I bought a M1889 from classic firearms last year, they had a sale, it is a 1891 manufacture date, 4 digit serial number, the bore was heavily pitted so I bought a barrel from a 96/11 (based on the serial number) and had a gunsmith install it, he had to turn down the barrel shoulder .348mm to get the alignment right; he also had to enlarge the opening in the stock because of the slightly larger chamber end. Other then all that I also need to find a -. front sight to get it shooting on target, I am very surprised at how hard any of those are to find. I am loading based on .30-40 Kraig load data, what I would have been using if I was loading for GP90, but using the dimensions for GP11. (.308 180gr HPBT (Sierra 2220) with currently 25gr of Accurate 5744) It has a few things I cannot place, like 2 serial numbers on the stock and a T at the end of the serial number on the receiver.
I'm surprised there are so few ads, some TH-cam do ads every 5 minutes.
FYI I have a 1889 with a private issue mark of 12 P. It was made in 1892 and she is in mint condition.
The ZfK55 is my favourite, K31 comes second
The straight-pull action gives me the fizzes right in the engineer.
Why? As an engineer you should understand why they work.
This!
Ah, I appear to have grabbed the stick by the wrong end 🤔🙄
I feel an overwhelming urge to make a dirty joke about now, but I shall resist.
This is BoTR, crack on 😬
Just bought my First.. a K11
Just watched this video thanks to C&Rsenal and it was great and I look forward to catching up on the rest of the series. Question for you, you said that it would take a video to cover the reasons the Swiss government did not adopt the Mauser style clip. Did this video ever get made and I missed seeing it, is it still on the shelf to be eventually made, or did you give up on it for some reason? Thanks for the great and informative video. :)
We don't actually know why, no document has turned up. I have my theories, which are contained in the 1908/1909 trials video (currently the last one in this series, I need to get on that).
Hi bloke! You have a great channel! Just for information, I have a k11 from 1918 that is marked as privatised in 1939!!! 😀
Bloke on the Range
Great thanks! I'll send you the picture tomorrow, as I'm not at home now
Where is the privatization date located? Oh i see its on the receiver but mine doesnt have one so it was privitized after 1964
Loving the videos, possibly a silly question, but I bought one of the 1908 trial rifles (P 264827) last year not really knowing much about them, what constitutes "ludicrously expensive?" - I only ask as I was thinking of selling it off in the near future.
Thanks!
Bloke on the Range thanks for the link, I think I may well have been misinformed by the seller. Certainly is the same length as my IG11, so that would make sense.
Again, thanks for the help!
What ammunition can I use in the 1896/11 I’m getting mixed answers.I see wolf has some 174Gr Fmj but I’m not sure?
No Zfk-55? :) Honestly though, I am super happy you're doing a series on these. I remember handling a sporterized K11 in a shop and just wondering what on earth it was. I've been obsessed with Schmidt-Rubins ever since.
Bloke on the Range - In the Midwest United States a clean ZFK 55 or even the earlier 1942 or 1943 versions go for about 3,200 to 3,700 dollars (U.S.). Too much for me, but maybe that's a fair price based on the limited number around. Search for Simpson Limited and they have a whole section on Swiss rifles. Used to have many variants, but we Americans have finally figured out what awesome rifles these are and started buying them like crazy. Not so many to be found these days.
London Jolly They are around 2000CHF-2500CHF here
Yeah, I had completely forgot the /42 and /43, -55s run 5 - $6,500 in the U.S. Someday I'll get one...someday.
Wait, ZFK-55s? Or 1931/42 and 1931/43s? If a 55 costs around $2,000 dollars in Switzerland than I'm making a trip as soon as I have the money!
London Jolly ZFK55
Do regular Mauser clips not work with GP11?
I can't try, i do gave GP11 but no Mauser clips
Just bought a 96/11 a few days ago. Completely disassembled the gun for cleaning and inspection before firing it. Found a tag hidden inside the but plate with someone's name, and maybe a date? It has the stamp showing the soldier who was issued the rifle bought it after service was over. Is that tag placement common on these guns? I only found one other post on a forums talking about the same type of tag, and hidden in the same area.
Question, does anyone know how the Obligatorisches was setup int the 40ies?
We found appreciation certificates of my Granpa that he was shooting 103 and 107 points, but nowadays you only can shoot 85 in a Obligatorisches.
Thanks in advance
A Stinngergunner A.D.
Oh look it's Mike B from TFB TV.
12 shot!!!!!!!! wow
What do I do if my K11 has headcase separation issues with GP11? I don't want to try my reloadable brass in it until GP11 doesn't have the headcase seperate
My first and only range trip with it, I managed to only shoot 6 rounds of surplus GP11 before the head case separated. I'll try it again sometime after I acquire more GP11
The k31as may be more accurate but id like to know what the difference is in velocity?
The k11 carbines have locking forward in the mid section of bolt.
That's still behind the magazine, so it's rear-locking, and this wouldn't be in the slightest bit controversial if the 1889 hadn't had the lugs even further back...
Hey Bloke!! Glad to discover your channel. I have an inherited ( no history or info) Schmit/Ruben that is beautiful and literally flawless. Thinkin--- never issued ?--- It's different than any I've seen and can't identify it. It is all original by all indication with all matching serial numbers and no alterations except the stock. But, it has a sport stock, 20" barrel, cover plate where mag box would go, simple buck horn ( non adjustable) sights, and the lugs on the bolt are all the way to the rear??, and the serial # is five digit starting with 13 and under 14,000. There are no other marks of any kind on it. The only non stock looking thing is a rubber butt pad made in 1922 brand NoSkock made in USA. The inlet for the sling has had a very pro job of fitting a wood filler block and there are two short flutes on the top of the receiver and one long one along the side opposite the bolt handle. Scared to fire it now. I fired it once with one of the 5 Toyo 7.5x55 rounds that were with it. Can you please help me?? Thanks---- Dan
Dandahermit Seals Sounds like an sporterised 1891 dated M1889 S-R. It is NOT advisable to shoot full power 7.5x55 in it even if it chambers since it was chambered for the earlier weaker 7.5x53.
The Chap. Wow!!! I can't believe you replied that quick!!! I'm in my 70s and up in the mountains on my ranch midla nowhere!!! You're somewhere in where? Europe?? I'm in Washington state a litteral "rock throw" from the Canadian border so off grid u would,'t believe. I hope your info is not quite accurate ( although, I figure it is) but I've not fired this beauty but once n have a stash of GP 11. Dam!! I really wish I could get a definate ID on this beauty. I'd send you guys some good pictures of the pertinent parts if I had an email address to send them to. Thanks Dan Seals
Dandahermit Seals We are in Switzerland, I know Washington state a bit since my wife’s aunt lives out there. I would suggest you get yourself over to Swissrifles.com (we also lurk there). Post pics on the forum there and I guarantee your rifle will be correctly ID’d.
The Chap. Wow!! That's great because even with your suggestions and a.video of a guy who bought an 1891 from Classic Arms that looks very much like ours, there are still differences. The bolt looks the same except that it has a one piece all steel charge handle ( stainless?) and the stock looks like the one we have with a cut down forestock and different rear sight. Thank you so much for your attention. This rifle is nearly perfect and I really want to use it. Might have to learn to load ammo for it if that's possible.
Are you sure it's not an M1893 cavalry carbine if the charging handle is all shiny steel?
I know how hard this question will be to answer for the hardcore collectors, but if I were to buy only one of these rifles, as an investment, collectible and shooter, which one of these should I choose? I'm mostly trying to decide between the 96/11, Long 1911 and K31. Thanks!
I got one.
missing Zfk 55!!
I have an 89 with the number 1360. (amongst a myriade of others)
It left service in 1912.
Sent you a quick video link. Sadly I was sick at the HV this month.
Also the Asea had a model of 1905 at the stand at lausanne if I remember correctly.
OK, I yet have to recieve it but I guess its because TH-cam being TH-cam..
Just recently purchased a K31. Was looking forward to the individual K31 episode but can’t find it! Am I missing something???
Really enjoyed it BTW.....
We've only got as far as the 05 cavalry carbine thus far.
Ok. I look forward to you doing the K31 video and explaining the bedding etc. Thanks
Been trying to find a swiss straight pull rifle lately, found a few k1911 "longs" k1911 carbines, and very rarely i'll see a k31. if you could only have 1 to shoot, what would it be?
K11 long? I think you mean G11 ;-) My vote goes for the G11. If shooting prone or off a bench who cares if it's long and heavy.
This might seem like a dumb question but I just recently started watching your videos and am curious if you are Swedish
Or what I meant was swiss
Why did they got rid of 12 rd mag??It seems like a huge advantage.
It's quite big and rather gets in the way. It's really very much more obtrusive than a Lee-Enfield magazine. There's nothing in the literature about it, but during my tests, over a minute there's no difference in rate of fire. Of course, having 12 rounds up front is a massive advantage at the start of a contact, but I suspect that the people making the decisions looked at "it's big and gets in the way, and over 1 minute the number of rounds fireable is the same so we'll make 6 rounders, which'll be cheaper too".
I have what I think is a 1900 short but I haven’t see another one like it any where!? Where could I send pictures to confirm what I have?
Send them to me on the Bloke on the Range Facebook page and I'll tell you what you've got. Please include all receiver markings.
Bloke- With regards to your comment about not having seen a privatization mark on a 1911 long rifle before 1926-27, I believe I may have recently purchased an example with an earlier "P25" 1925 privatization mark. It has a serial number in the 360,000 range which would date its production to around 1912-13 from what I understand.
Sorry you said 1934-35, this would mean my rifle was released much earlier if I am correct.
Can you send me a photo of the marking please? The vast majority of early supposed P-marks are actually a post-64 P mark placed near an earlier refurbishment mark. mikeburnsgln [at ] gmail [dot] com
Sure thing.
Thanks for that - as I suspected, a post-64 P-mark placed by a 1925 renovation mark
Are swiss rifles kinda rare? i cant imagine they made a ton of them. It looks like that supply here in the US is starting to dry up. i just bought a really nice k1911 from Edelweiss. i would recommend them if you want one.
Are you fan of Forgotten Weapons, Bloke?
Is there any general information on which units were issued G1911s vs K1911s? From the photographs and postcards I've collected it doesn't seem to be as clear cut as "Infantry this, carbiners this, cavalry this!" More or less wondering about the WW1 period.
Thanks!!
Until the K31 came along, and considering the Auszug and Landwehr only, the long rifles were issued to infantry units, aside from to infantrymen who had a special role (telephone operators, machine gunners, that sort of thing) who got a K11. Everyone non-infantry got a K11.
I acquired a 1911 long rifle today in terrible condition. Pitting all over external metal, missing magazine, wood is dented and basically black.
But, the bore, chamber, throat, bolt, and crown are in great condition.
While inspecting it, I noticed that it is possible to dry fire the rifle while the bolt is not in battery. When it fires, it appears that the firing pin going forward makes the bolt lock.
My question is, does the bolt lock before the firing pin hits the primer in that situation? If I fuck up one day and fire out of battery like that, am I going to blow up the rifle?
Yes, it locks before the striker hits. But it is unlikely to actually fire the cartridge cos the striker hitting the safety lug takes most of its energy.
Something you might look into is the last years of the walnut stocks for k31's. I seen a last year 1945 walnut stocked k31 that was a very dark walnut. Not like an european walnut but more like american black walnut. Maybe someone used a stain or oil to treat it or it's possibly they were importing walnut before ceasing its use. Likely because the war made walnut too expensive to continue using.
Ah, Germans would explain the lack of Walnut. I know after 45 there were no walnut stocks except for the private series. I still think cost may have been a factor for not using it after the war. I have two K31's and I think the beach stock for one was dated about 4 years prior to the gun being made (51/55) so it sat in storage for a good while.
Yeah I imagine they need a cure time so they probably made sure they had enough ready for every batch.
G11? AKA the Swiss m1911? That seems like a hell of a deal. I could use one or two. I have one that was a beautiful figured walnut stock until Sandy McSand took out all the dents, corners, and most barrel band retention. The other 1911 was sporterized by Stupid McStupid and is now my parts rifle. I got that mag in my proper looking k11.
There's a Schmidt Rubin rifle for sale on the town post for 450$ but it's chambered for.30-30. Have you ever heard of any of them being chambered for .30-30?
Lots were rechambered for that in the US.
Went to www.swissrifels.com couldn't get it to do anything on my mobile smarty. Bummer
Perhaps if you spelt it correctly that might help? ;)