Swiss Straight-Pulls Episode 2bis: 1889 Rifle Mechanics
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 15 มี.ค. 2017
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As mentioned in the previous video, The Bloke had to split what would have been a massive single episode into two. So this is the second part. Schmidt-Rubin striaght-pull 1889 rifle mechanics. Have at it!
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I was looking forward to this one, Swiss straight pulls have always fascinated me. I'm waiting for my K31 to get delivered to my local shop so I can finally get to the range.
where did you find a k31. Been looking for weeks for one
Bull moose guns get them in occasionally
"As slick as a slick thing" that sounds like a quote from Baldrick.
Bloke,.... Enjoyed that. Nicely done. You need a Blokey pointy thingy.... Maybe something engineered and fashioned by the Chap...? Maybe a Python-esque "Hand of God" kind of thing... Cheers!
What about a fondue fork or hand of god jammed on the end of a fondue fork?
I think the latter might be more, *AHEM*, to the point... although the plain fondue fork might provide a bit of comic relief, what with trying to point something out with two tines... especially if the tines diverge considerably..... bit like the twin peaks of Kilimanjaro...
You are one hell of gentleman... Don't worry, I won't tell anybody.... WAIT!,..... there are THREE peaks of Kilimanjaro?......
Best video explaining the 1889 ever keep up the good work
Great info,as always.Thanks!
Awesome and interesting video my friend. Love the straight pulls.
a pleasure to watch thank you for making this video
A lot of people don't really capture the whole story when it comes to the locking lug location.
Yes, having the lugs farther back means more metal under stress and more bolt compression (dynamic headspace).
However, the main problem is that the lugs are behind the cam groove. If the cam groove wasn't there, it wouldn't have been much of an issue how far back the lugs are.
The fact that the section of sleeve containing the cam groove is under stress is a big problem. It means that the stress has to flow around the cam groove (big simplification, stress is a very complicated thing), meaning the stress has a much higher magnitude than it otherwise would have AND it effectively creates asymmetrical locking - the sleeve will bend under stress (because it's asymmetrical) and one lug will bear more of the load than the other.
Great series Mike... thanks for sharing your knowledge.
I love that converted Vetterli cartridge pouch, can’t find any on line. I may have to try to make my own.
Great-great information!!!!
I see now where the Finns got their M39 front band design from. Very similar. Great video Bloke.
Thank you Herr Bloke, another excellent review. Could that be Swiss high alpine edelweiss camo you are wearing?
loving the mouse ball
I was in a pawn shop this afternoon, and, now, I can't decide which was cooler: the Springfield Krag because it was the U.S. Army's first bolt-action rifle or the Mannlicher Carcano cavalry carbine because it was a straight-pull.
Michael Davis the straight pull. The mannlichers are a cool set of rifles.
dynamic headspace would be the name of my 'tecno' album XD
I admit I've never really paid much attention to straight-pulls before. Very interesting this is, though.
Great video! Is it a volley site?
14:50 bullet specs. Thanks for that. I've been using a Lee 312-185 with pure lead, as-cast 0.311", using paper 0.003" thick cut 51mm long, patched up to 0.323". Seems to work ok, but I'm only pushing them at 1690fps...so there's that.
Blocke, thanks a lot for that grat video.
One question: Wehere did you get the GP11 ManiPat?
And orderd: Thank you very much
Hey bloke, that bit about "Dynamic headspacing" was quite good! I never even considered that as a possibility, the compression of the material in the bolt that is. Is that a problem on any other guns, you reckon?
Oh, it's a thing on all rear lockers, but they're mostly far more rigid than that super long 1889 bolt.
Hi! I have a GP11 Carbine, completely matching, nice bore. But the exterior rifle has seen better days. Roughed up overall, and the fore-end of the stock has warped a good deal to the side. Do you know of any remedies outside of replacing the stock? (If a stock could even be found, hah)
I recently acquired an IG 1889 converted to a .22 cal target rifle. An interesting tidbit about the gun, it has a serial number that puts the date of manufacture in early 1892, 26,000 range, and a privatization stamp of P 10, 1910. The interesting bit is the 1910 privatization date being one of the earliest I have seen. Only 18 years in the Swiss military.
The gentleman in question will have been re-equipped along with the rest of his unit from a Vetterli to an 1889 in the mid 1890's. I'm on the wrong computer, but off the top of my head the earliest P date I've seen on an 1889 is 1907.
Please do that one on modern reloading! There's all sorts of opinions on how to approach that going from using .308 to .312, trimming or not trimming 7.5x55 cases, running them under 37,000psi.. and so on, like to see yet another opinion :) They're beautiful old girls, proud to have one.
don't reload with to little powder, you get bullets getting stuck in the barrel which happened twice so far... the breach didn't blow up though! surprisingly LOL
32gn's of imr4064 no no! others say 36 to 39, and it will be just under near the max 40,000cpu, crazy!
@@TimonSuricata The breech won't blow with a stuck bullet unless you fire another bullet. If there isn't enough pressure to push the bullet out of the barrel, then there certainly isn't enough to blow up the breech. Most of what I have read says to use minimum loads for the .30-40 Krag for both cast and jacketed bullets. I have an 1889 on the way from Edelweiss Arms and I'm planning to just shoot cast bullets in it.
How slick is a slick thing?
5:38 - Phwoarrr need fresh trousers.
Well explains why mine failed proof
Recently saw a swiss model 1889 with a gunsmith marked barrel and paper band around handguard. These were shot in competition?
Swiss competitions are shot with Swiss service rifles, ergo during the service life of the 1889 it would have been normal for it to be used in standard competitions until replaced by the next generation.
Hey Bloke, or anyone else for that matter, could you explain what the markings mean? mine has what i assume is the serial number: 131156 then it has a bunch of the little cross stamps and a ovalish circle with a tiny cross with a 4 under it inside the circle and a P with 0 on the left and 8 on the right just above the cross thats just before the barrel, where that line above it is... As I said previously, I know nothing about this rifle other than that parts are missing, the bolt is jammed open, and the rifle has been sporterized (I assume thats the term for having no hand guard and the bottom stock sawed off bout half way more or less down the barrel) ... I just took a look at the bolt and enough of it is sticking out to confirm rear locking lugs so then by this possibly skewed logic, it must be an 1889...
Mike, are you planning on doing a reloading Video on the GP1890?
Nope, sorry. YT is not safe for reloading videos.
@@BlokeontheRange Ah, yes. I understand. Maybe you can give me a hint for loading Data? I am considering a 200grs 308 H&N HS HP on a 32grs RS40 load?
Wasn't the camming stud idea the major flaw of the M60?
I have a semi-auto with 4 round clip, is it a sportrized version? It's a barn find I cleaned up. Any information would be appreciated!
This is a bolt action. Not a semiauto.
@@BlokeontheRange Perhaps a bit off topic, but this comment kinda got me thinking. Did the swiss ever experiment with a gas operated bolt rifle conversion like basically everyone else? The brits had the howell conversion of the SMLE, but it would seem to me that the straight pull system of the schmidt-rubins (namely the already existent operating rod) may actually have been a plausible and reliable conversion.
Imagine how long the reciever on a semi-auto conversion would be
that's a "foldy uppy" sight...
Man the metric system is so hard
I guess this video would be a No2 mk2 in Lee Enfield terms.
I got one.
Haven't seen one on video, only single shot bolt action.
Does ppu run its ammo a bit lighter? My 1889 fired it with no sighns of case stretching or excess pressure.
Don't do that. But yes, PPU 7.5x55 is a bit lighter because of people doing that when they really shouldn't. And of course you're not going to see signs of excess pressure for obvious reasons, that the supposed "pressure signs" you're looking for aren't affected by what the firearm is capable of taking ;)
Good to know, where does the ammo usually cause the failure point on those guns? Is it cracking lugs? Or just that there is a decreased margin of safety in the event of a bad case?
Seems to be the latter. Plus some people report hard extraction due to the flex in the system allowing the case to over-expand and then get clamped in there when it relaxes back.
Good to know. Mine acted like nothing was amiss and extracted smoothly, i also checked the brass for stretching and it had not. But it shot awful. I have found a hand load that shoots well and is lower pressure. Funny was the brass had far less stretching near the head than what my no4 does to its 303 brass. Thank you for the replies. Love your show!
Thanks!
Just curious, can us folk here in the UK actually get the ammunition for this gun if we would be lucky enough to have one?
This is a pure collectors rifle. Get the Langgewehr 11 instead. It looks exactly the same except for the magazine and very slightly different (but much better) sights. The mechanical parts also look almost identical, but have revised locking lugs roughly in the middle of the bolt (thereby greatly improving rigidity and shortening the bolt). The Langgewehr 11, while looking identical, is superior in every way, and it fires GP11 cartridges, which are still made today. The LG11 is also relatively easy to find and quite inexpensive.
@@adrianguggisberg3656 Thank you very much lad, I'll look into these tips. Have a good day. 🙂
Does anybody know what you do (apart from cry and curl up in a ball) if your 1889 bolt won't come out of the rifle?
Mine is jammed in there, cycles fine but just won't come out with the latch.
I've never heard of that issue. See if you can take the latch off.
@@BlokeontheRange looks like it's pinned in place, I've tried seeing if it's caught on the spring but that hasn't solved it.
I'm thinking it must be built up edge inside where the bolt hits the latch as you cycle the gun.
Or it's deformed in some way. You might have to get a gunsmith to pop the pin to drop it out and see what's going on.
Otherwise, there isn't anything binding which prevents the lever from being pushed all the way down?
@@BlokeontheRange I don't see anything binding I tried taking the stock off to get a better look and saw nothing, I'll have to have a better look when I'm home again. I could be wrong on this but maybe the spring on the latch is getting caught preventing it opening fully? I'll have a look when I get the chance.
I think I'll find a gunsmith around me to do it. Seems like the most sensible way rather than trying to force the thing.
Mine has a 7 in a circle stamped on the top of the stock near the butt plate. Does anyone know what this means? Ty
It's a cantonal arsenal marking. I don't know which number corresponded with which canton though
Dont know why someone hasn't comverted one to left hand pump action via the operating rod.
3:22 Dont you mean cocks on closing? The striker only catches the sear at the last part of the closing motion, compressing the striker spring.
Bloke on the Range Strange. I just pulled out one of mine and did some testing. Strange, out of some reason i thought the rifle was cock on close, possibly due to the fact that when I work the bolt but depress the trigger the striker is in the fired position. Does that mean there is a possibility of slam fire?
Bloke on the Range So, youll do a video on it for educational purposes?
Blindpatrone
why is this gun the only antique cartridge loading rifle in the uk that sells for under 1000£?
Cos there's loads of them about, and in Switzerland they only cost about Fr. 150.-, if that.
@@BlokeontheRange I was really surprised at how cheap they are in the U.S. other than Dutch Beaumonts most antique rilfes here are $1000 plus. The only antique I currently own is an 1895 Chilean Mauser made by Ludwig Loewe. I've had an 1896 Krag carbine in the past though. I just picked up an 1889 Schmidt Rubin with a perfect bore and 80% finish for $395. I can't wait to work up some cast bullet loads for it.
Please don't test what it takes to blow that rifle up..
It's pretty. And it should stay that way!
Rest assured that if we do any destructive testing it will be on a shitty knackered old rifle.
Would you be willing to sell me some spent gp11 or gp90 cases?
If you are in the U.S. Grafs.com and Midway USA have Prvi Partizan 7.5x55 swiss brass for $29.99 per 50 pieces.
@@kylemichaels3373 I'm in the UK with my own m1889 in really nice condition. I ended up finding someone who sells me ppu in as small of a quantity as I need which is ideal
I know 8" seems large, but trust me .... it's not big enough. I think thickness is just as important to be honest. Ya, that just happened ... ohhhhhh
Ahhhhhhhhh more blokesplaining....