Trizooka Awareness is Proactive, Not Reactive
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2023
- The short I made about that: • omg i hate splatoon
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#splatoon3 #trizooka #competitive - บันเทิง
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hey guys remember splatoon 1 where this exact same debate happened over inkzooka and the general consensus was that it needed startup and they added startup and everything was perfectly fine
Inkzooka was also a lot more powerful and easier to use than Trizooka, to be fair.
I saw this tweet and was like "Bro a charger would have killed them too." This isn't a Zooka problem - it's a player problem.
Given that they rushed right into a patch of enemy ink, a sharking player could have insta-splatted them too
it was a meme tweet, they weren't being serious.
and they were about to go to the right after baiting with a curling bomb
@@mystik_owlSource?
@@michaeleanthonyjr Zorconic's yt channel
settings probably won't let me post links, but his latest video talks about what he meant by the tweet, shows more clips and perspectives from the game, and what he was trying to do there
@@mystik_owl Sounds like damage control.
This is why I love the Battle Replay feature. In the moment, I can get too tilted to self-reflect. Battle Replays let me learn what went wrong once I've cooled down.
That's a great way to learn from our mistakes. Particularly when we look at it from the other player's perspective.
also this will go down as one of the funniest Squid School thumbnails
I think most ppl have a problem with trizooka because no other special punishes them that hard for being out of position. Triple inkstrike gives you these big circles booyah bomb has th charge time crav tank needs to wind up etc so theyge bevome complacent
So it's what us fighting game players would call, a "scrub killer"... great! (No sarcasm, btw)
edit: That reminds me that Clash Blaster is also one of these on top of having the Trizooka too
@@malcovich_games
Having watched this channel a lot, I am guessing pro players, and Gem from Squid School, would not give much care about the Clash Blaster, since in that case the main weapon is just annoying, but it’s certainly not at the level of weapons mentioned in the above comment. It cannot kill as fast, and the shots will show where the weapon is, as well as probably be heard.
@@TMS-Oddbot The slow ttk, and telegraphed shooter location shouldn't be a big problem if the target isn't adept at aiming or movement yet, which is what "scrub" implies.
Clash and Trizooka are both great at punishing people who aren't good at the game yet, though for different reasons.
@scratch_hare @scratch_hare , considering that tri is one of the best specials in competitive right now and clash is bottom teir, I don't really think that comparison is as apt as you seem to think it is.
It's like saying melee fox is like clash because "He's really good at punishing new players' mistakes."
You could use that argument on any good tool.
It's just good.
It can punish bad or even middling decisions cause it's a good option that can cover many things.
Unless I'm misinterpreting your argument somehow?
@@guythatdosethingssometimes2651 I don't understand why y'all try to remind me that the weapon is low tier, I only say Clash is "especially good against a certain group of players" rather than "good, period".
Trizooka has counter play, but that doesn't mean it's not unhealthy for the game right now. It's designed to be used as a long range tool for taking players out and it does that well with the recent damage buff, but it currently also works as a panic button and it's one of the most spammable specials in the game. Toning both of those aspects back a bit would make it fine, in my opinion.
Dunno about that. Some Zooka players flail and miss when you get up close. But Zooka is surprisingly strong right now, I agree.
Yeah, this right here
I looked up the definition of "panic button" and it stated that it is "to be used in case of an emergency" so you should save them for when you need them.
So you're saying that trizooka is both spammable, and it's used for emergencies? I do believe that it's too strong and it needs nerfs, it should have it's cast-nerfed as well, but I think the arguments people have about it and the evidence shown are poorly thought out.
@tanookiesgrin9756 no, panic button specials are used as soon as you get them. If you watch a lot of top level play, you can see a single zooka taking a team from 1v4 to 1v1. That shouldnt be possible with something you can whip out in .5 seconds
@@armoredanteater609 agreed, but again, this is what I'm talking about. .1 seconds, .4, 1 second, does it matter how fast someone gets splatted? The only difference is that you get more time to react to it, but if you're in a bad position, you're gonna die anyway. You're right, it shouldn't be the end all be all, it's cast-time should be nerfed, it should have a smaller radius, splattershot should be 210-220p, but the evidence that people use is just them making mistakes and they start screaming "nerf it!" With no citation. I'm just asking for better evidence.
The way people think that giving advice and explaining how this interaction happened thinks we're defending inkzooka is so fucking weird man - like what?
Those people are probably thinking just within the scope of trizooka's balance itself. Even though the criticisms are directed towards player decisions on movement, because their argument mindset is "trizooka only", they receive the criticism and before thinking about it interpret it as a defense of trizooka. This is evidenced by their video caption where they seem to be conflating arguments on awareness with the mechanics of trizooka.
October is Trizooka Awareness Month I see...
Zooka doesn’t auto win games. But it is definitely overpowered at the moment. There is some counter play, but the degree to which you are expected to constantly avoid the possibility of trizookas being farmed and then instantly popped is unreasonably restrictive upon play styles.
I think one thing a lot of zooka defenders ignore is how zooka interacts with the weapons it’s on. Two of the most powerful zooka weapons right now are splattershot and carbon deco. Both weapons are close range powerhouses that the primary strategy of many other weapons want to try to zone out. Deny them the paint to get in and make sure that if the enemy violates your area of control they get punished for it. These same behaviors of making sure you can deny the enemy splattershot/carbon from getting close to you are the same behaviors that will leave you exposed to a instant pop zooka shot. So when fighting these weapons you need to simultaneously be zoning them out while also simultaneously be aware of the threat that at any moment they could turn into an e-liter with a full charge and punish you for what the game has trained you to do against these weapons.
Let’s also not forget that forcing the enemy team to run away and hide is still a form of value. An enemy team that is all behind cover out of fear of being sniper by trizooka is an enemy team that isn’t exerting control over the map. It’s not like you even need to pop the special to exert this fear over the enemy either. Because the startup is so fast, just having the special charged means you need to respect the zooka user. and they are getting value of of zooka without even popping it.
This is why trizooka having a near nonexistent startup is so powerful. It extends the time with which you need to respect the possibility of a special, far outside the time frame when you need to be able to respect any other special. And I think that makes trizooka drastically stronger than other damaging specials in the game right now.
8:39
"That's enough reason to pause - find higher ground - and look around first."
God THANK YOU for reinforcing this behavior in my head - every time I did this I always thought that I was probably letting my team down by not rushing in after spawning. Looks like I'm smarter than I thought.
My point of view in this matter is that of design consistency. I think there's definitely value in the idea of being aware of the special economy and not putting yourself into the position to get shot by a Trizooka, but at the same time I think it is understandable that people would expect that it should be reactable. Every other offensive special in the game has a pretty significant windup period before it becomes emminently dangerous, a factor the Trizooka simply lacks. Inkjet can't fire immediately and needs to launch itself upwards before it can start firing, Tenta Missiles take time to launch and to travel, Reefslider takes time to broadcast its path of travel, ride along that path, and even has a delay before its final explosion, and all of these have unique sound indicators so you know they're going off even if you can't see them. Trizooka on the other hand, plays no special animation, has no windup time, and even the special sound effect that alerts you to its presence is less of a factor because it can literally fire before that sound effect ends.
We can go back and forth forever about whether or not it's a skill issue to be in the situations where you get shot in the first place, I get it, but I do think it is very understandable to be frustrated with a special that breaks a rule every other special in the game follows. Everything from Reefslider to Inkstorm to even *Big Bubbler* gives you a delay to process that the special is in play and react accordingly. This is also to say that a level of proactivity impacts *every* enemy special, and it can feel quite annoying to have a mechanic in the game the fully leans onto that vector of proactivity, when every other special has proactive and reactive elements.
In my opinion, there are three main problems with trizooka: lack of startup, huge radius size, and spammability.
I’ll start with the lack of startup- and this one is quite simple. It just makes the special feel unfair to fight against- you can’t really be aware of a special when it’s used instantly after the gauge fills up right in front of your face, so I think that there should be startup added.
Secondly, the huge radius size means that you’re almost always going to take damage if someone aims at you. 60 damage, after the buff… is a lot! It will even splat you if less than half your health was gone… which doesn’t really feel fair. (Another part of this is that some weapons can panic pop zooka and shoot at the floor to splat you with the lack of startup, which also doesn’t feel fair)
Finally, zooka’s spammability, especially on shooters is a problem. If a zooka weapon can get 6-7 of them per game and have another zooka weapon to support it, it kind of just feels like you never get to be safe from a constant threat of being cross-mapped. (Especially since the 60 damage from one zooka can combo with that of another…)
All of these aspects create a special that just feels like pain to play against. If I was a dev for the game, I would probably add startup frames, decrease the radius size slightly and make squeezer and vshot 200-210p.
All of this. Zooms wasn’t relevant before the 20 damage buff, I don’t see how a simple 20 damage buff suddenly makes it overpowered. People are just encountering it more. It pains me every time I read how Zooka is a poorly designed special because it’s really not. The user gets three long range shots that deal a lot of damage and pierce, so people are forced to move. On the downside, the time between shots is slow and you don’t paint your feet, making you very slow, and the range is long but not unlimited. It’s actually really well designed, just overturned because it doesn’t have Startup like how Inkzooka didn’t
@@flopps1051 yeah. I think the special had some fundamental problems from the beginning that are now just exemplified with the 60 damage
A 20 damage indirect buff is signifigant bc before you would hit 2 indirects and it wouldn’t kill where as now it does. Also before the enemy needed to have 60 damage already on them to kill, where as now they only need 40 damage on them. That’s a pretty big deal because a lot of things do 40-50 damage that can now do a bit of damage and then trizooka can get the indirect kill.
@@ethanb9981 yep, that’s why people are picking the special a lot more now
Imo only issue is lack of start up so people can’t pop close up. Indirect damage was nerfed a fair amount and maybe some weapons can get pps nerfs
Ah yes, the surprise Zooka to the face. Sometimes yes, it does seem to come out of nowhere. . .most of the time it really just not being observant enough. Same with the bombs that kill you that you never saw. . .
Three things you did not even mention:
1) a suction bomb landed on the left, zoning the splatted player out of moving that way, therefore forcing his movement either up the left ramp or right ramp (even without the Trizooker shooter having noticed his typical post-spawn route up the right ramp)
2) there was a small (non-paintable) blackish block on the left on top of the right ramp that the splatted player could have covered behind to be protected from Trizooker shots (at least enough to not be splatted instantly)
3) you can see when an opponent or your teammates have their Special Gauge fully charged in the upper HUD (and the Mini Map, which was the case here), so the splatted player should have expected the Trizooker being fired soon
So yeah, that was definitely avoidable despite Trizooker being a bit overpowered right now.
edit: added the info that the Special Gauge being fully charged is also visible on the Mini Map which was also the case here.
The last one was gone over already unfortunately, it's the one situation I can say it wasn't predictable at all that it would be insta-popped. The other two things are very valid
That suction bomb throw is exactly the thing I do to funnel enemies into my kill zone, and I'm still in B rank
@@sonicrunn3r895 It is predictable if you have enough awareness of the enemy player to know that they've been active in the match long enough for them to be close to special. If I got splatted recently and saw an enemy player in my base, I would be better off assuming that they're at least close to trizooka and move according to that expectation. Especially because when I push into enemy base, it's usually when my special is close to being ready
@@michaeleanthonyjr Tbh that’s actually a fair argument too. Sometimes it can be tougher to tell based on the weapon but with the amount of paint around it was likely to be caused mostly from the splattershot.
@@sonicrunn3r895 Especially if you're watching them paint because you're on the kill cam, it can give you an idea of what they're up to
Random thought: I remember back in splatoon 2, I learned to pay attention to the enemy special charge specifically because of splashdown, because as "bad" as it was I still needed to be aware of it, otherwise I might try to camp someone's super jump only to be completely destroyed by a splashdown that's impossible to react to after it's used.
I bet if that was still in this game, more people would be conscious of how important enemy special awareness is, lol
Also I agree on the slow down part but the player could also note that at 6:44 there’s a bomb thrown meaning a enemy could be near by so they could have waited it out or threw a curling bomb where they went and split of to the lower right area
I shouldn't have to be uber-paranoid about an instant e-liter range death shot when every other damaging special gives me a warning built into the special. If every special was this way it would be annoying, so why isn't it okay to be annoyed by this example of it.
As and addition. The tri-zooka problem doesn't bother me personally that bad. But coming from a casual group of friends I play with. I don't want to have to be this good to just play the game dude. But splatoon specifically seems to have such good players that you NEED to be caught up to even stand a chance. Games that have been out for much longer I can hop on and still get qued up with players who are DEFINITELY NOT competitive level at the game. Maybe a few of them are, but for the most part everyone has pretty average levels of skill. I think splatoon has had such a cult following for so long, that balance of skilled to, well, non-skilled players is very unbalanced. and maybe this tri-zooka debacle is just becoming a final straw for a lot of players. I mean i'd be annoyed if I felt like I had to train myself and go watch someone explain how to play just to be able to play... oh wait...
I love how you always have a strong anchor psychology when talking about your subjects. With your example of locus of control, it’s important for people to understand the balance between the external and internal, aka understanding what you could have done better and also what your teammates could have done better. And on top of that recognizing when you’re emotionally compromised and being able to notice when that emotion is making you either blame yourself or them too much.
I love you’re content because you’re such a great coach!
Been using Trizooka since launch it really is just a mind reading game .
Pop Zooka in high traffic areas if no one there check common hiding spots. It really is just whack a mole. And if they are hiding behind a wall they will shoot it upward to try and hit you so look up!
As a former Eliter 3K user the idea of Trizooka being unreactable is so funny S1 Zooka still jump-scares me. A majority of Zooka deaths are hard reads, luck or just poor awareness.
I feel this is an overreaction just like how all the new players claiming Kraken Royale was busted.
Honestly the thumbnail and title are so well crafted it summarizes the entire video in a matter of 10 seconds looking at it, well done!
00:18 that’s me right there I’m the wiper deco!!!
100% agree. I do think the startup time is silly but only in the context of using it as a last resort panic button where using other specials would just get you killed. Although i always did have that problem with zooka since launch LOL
This is also my only issue with it; the fact that they can finish charging the special, pop it, and kill you with it within about 30 total frames just feels silly. It means you can't wait to see the enemy's special being available on the UI since the time between it showing up, you seeing it, and dying to it is fast enough that the only way to avoid it is to assume they can pop it at all times if you are close-medium range and in line of sight.
I only want start up frames added to remove that "panic instakill when you're in a bad position" stuff. Even like 10 frames would go a long way to making it not an obscenely strong defensive tool without affecting its healthier use cases much.
Feels like getting inundated with constant bomb and special spam then many times navigate that only to get sniped reaching the front
i did actually watch the stream of the player in question explaining the clip yesterday, it seemed to me as complaining for its own sake rather than trying to attempting to find what he actually could've done differently. focusing on that single 4 second clip does not give any information about his patterns up to that point. like you say part of improving is not putting yourself in questionable situations and relying on your reaction time to save you. the clip owner also made a point of saying the spot he got shot on was still in his spawn and behind cover to an extent, but ignores the bombs being thrown and enemy paint going down directly where he's attempting to move. at some point a player has to recognize the options that the enemy has available to them and choose their decisions accordingly, if the enemy has 2 trizookas and knows you're respawning, it doesn't matter if they have them yet or not, you shouldn't rush forward recklessly cause you should expect them to have zookas soon. reaction time isn't really a factor.
Since when is "I'm still in spawn" supposed to mean you're untouchable, anyway? I get killed out of spawn all the time, tilts me like hell but I can at least recognise that it's within the bounds of the game's rules.
@@flight5091 i completely agree. no it's not fun when it happens but you can't blame the game for it. it's any given player's responsibility to adapt to the situation they're in, not vice verca.
imo tri-zooka is like a tri-stringer that has full charge immediately and a bigger kill radius
also twitter doing that “so you hate waffles” stuff again
Tbh they never should’ve buffed Tri stringer in normal battles, it was perfect as is. Now it doesn’t require skill and you can spam ism and thermal to spam level one torpedos and cheese the whole game 💀not to mention the fact the torpedos are pretty much free 90 Dmg on 3 of them
@@andrewenderfrost8161are you honestly saying that tri stringer is broken?
@@enecofan888 Tbh they never should’ve buffed Tri stringer in normal battles, it was perfect as is. Now it doesn’t require skill and you can spam ism and thermal to spam level one torpedos and cheese the whole game 💀not to mention the fact the torpedos are pretty much free 90 Dmg on 3 of them
@@zeatehkcasualaccount uh sure. I dunno I think Tri stringer is okay right now.
@@enecofan888it’s a twitter copypasta. I *am* a tristringer main but I fully recognize it’s mid
Aside from talk of the new HUD features "missing the point", the glow of the Trizooka user's icon was too brief to respond to anyway.
Also, you could surprise someone like that with an unscoped long-range charger, too!
Just lisen to that loud sound start up and hide or if using a wepon that can shark and flank them
I find the subpar matchmaking in open where strong players are matched with weaker players who maybe arent as aware and have no will to improve as theyre having fun. Said strong players will be able to pop zooka and obliterate someone who had no idea it was coming and its easy to feel cheated after that. Matchmaking makes zooka seem more problematic than it is
Splat 1 veteran here. You are spot on.
In fact that click sound was still there in S1. I think the trizooka could use a nerf but it's not OP and this is coming from a back liner, one of the most common targets of these weapons.
This video should just be called how not to be a sploosh player lol, every sploosh I encounter plays like this just rushing forward
What's your BlueSky? I don't see it in your links and I would love to find more Splatoon folks to follow there!
.
As for Trizooka, my only complaint is that everyone is a sniper with it and I can't seem to hit anything. But that is a PEBCAC (Problem Exists Between Chair And Controller) issue that I will resolve with practice. 😅
@gemthesquid.bsky.social
Say, I wanna thank you for this video. After watching this, I start to pay more attention to where I stand, making sure I have cover everytime while still in a safe range to shoot.
Thank you so much, Teach!
Hey Gem, can you turn up your mic audio in videos? You are very quiet in comparison to your intro video. Thanks for such great content!
amazing thumbnail, makes me giggle every time I see it
oh yeah a forum kind of space would be cool, maybe like
SQUIDBOARDS
EVERYONE SHOULD USE SQUIDBOARDS
i think zooka is only somewhat a problem from point blank, in my experience it seems a lot of players use it as a panic button and seems to work a decent amount of time
The maps don’t have cover though. Where am I supposed to go when there isn’t cover?
This was exactly my reaction to people going way overboard with said clip. Even at a casual level I knew going up that ramp was a bad play not even considering the player potentially already having developed a pattern it was just a safe play for the opponent to make with their zooka
Thank you for this video! I've been stuck at A+ since I lost S at the start of fresh season, wondering what's holding me back. Sorella brella made this the best season yet, but I still couldn't reach S again and that eventually broke my resolve. I've been tilting over 'zooka, my teammates, everything, and I don't usually tilt. This level of awareness, thinking about other players' perspectives in an active way, I think is the missing piece for me. The game is in its best state it has been; I want to continue enjoying that.
Getting behind cover isn't the problem. The problem is that it does 60 damage at a radius that's higher than the width of most covers so that you get hit even if you were hiding.
True. It still needs a wind up time though. It looks silly how fast it is currently. Like, almost buggy or jank. One second there’s nothing. Half a second later there’s a massive bazooka and it’s ready to fire. So I agree but gosh darn do I still stand by the call for a nerf to it’s insta shot.
Yeah the zooka startup is faster than reef slider. They should switch reef and zooka startup time lol
By that metric, you'd have to nerf Inkjet too since you can't react to the first shot popping out of the ink or behind a box or under a ledge.
@@paul_lan3794 no special should get such a short startup, it would make the special a panic button that could be popped at a losing situation and still get some value from just pushing a button
As a tetra player, I definitely stand by that reef should get some type of buff (maybe a slightly shorter startup, higher speed or make its trail invisible to make it more unpredictable) but i don't think it should make it a splashdown "30% less crappy" edition
@@paul_lan3794absolutely not
I watched Zorkonic's video about his take and both of you seem to agree on most of your points, I think it's just a misscomunication issue. The tweet was venting but it was a bit more facetious. Anyway, good video as always and I hope there is no beef between two of my fav splatubers :( it's like watching my parents fight 😢
Can’t wait to see the angry Twitter responses to this one
I thought Goku was better than this 😔
I dont think it’s an over powered auto win but i think it's a tad over tuned.
Ive had moments where i have been in otherwise complete safe positions trying to play defensively in a range where the enemy shouldn't really be able to hit me then some one gets trizuka and immediately hits special and yoinks me before i have the opportunity to even try to run away.
The main problem is the near instant activation.
I think you should atleast have time to try and move before the opponent gets a shot off.
Oh how I miss the S1 inkzooka
That quote at 11:16. Top quality advice 🎉
In 1 we did have a way to know who on the other team had special ready but yeah the UI changes are much nicer than Glowy Hair Callouts
That _barely counts_
If someone is in a position to jump you with inkzooka in splatoon 1, odds are they're hiding so that you can't see them at all. I think the special glow maybe helped to predict invincibility specials, but against good inkzooka players there was pretty much no way to see it coming back then
As much as I agree with everything said, there is a problem of balance in curent Zooka (not a big, but still a problem)
Ok for """random""" player on twitter, but when even Madness (probably one of the best player in the western comp scene) complains about it, it means something.
It is on twitter, so to be taken with a grain of salt, but in their clip they aren't playing mindlessly or in the open
I don't say the shot Madness showed shouldn't have hit, just that maybe it should be a little harder to hit this kind of shot
(For those who don't see what I'm talking about, Madness get splat by an arched shot, being on the box between snipe and corner, those pretty much behind cover and beyond the front line)
1:01
/coughs in Squidboards
If I had the option to choose
-nerf trizooka in any way I would want
Or
-people could debate splatoon3 without attacking the person instead of debating the argument
I would go for the 2nd all the way.
I want to be able to debate with people, thus more people need to exist instead of the Twitter gremlins that reply with skill issue, you are bad at the game and git gud(not in an ironical way)
I agree. I feel like the community have been getting toxic nowadays.
@@Riodile I think it is just Twitter
The algorithm rewards bad and toxic behavior a lot
I'm just tired of having to pay heavy attention to potential Tri-zookas when I play a Crab Tank weapon, and still sometimes getting caught out by them.
My only issue with trizooka is that you can angle it so that it hits over cover, it’s inconsistent as hell but super annoyed to get hit by
i agree with this, i'd like to add a scenario where zooka was actually unavoidable. i pushed up, a splattershot took a fight with me, few seconds of no one dead, they popped zooka just outside of my dualies range and one shot me. they charged it mid fight so i couldnt tell they had it before, and it activated too fast for me to be able to see it and dodge behind cover. zooka being able to do that as a long range special is a little bit too good imo
I don't and won't join Bluesky just for competitive Splats. Man I want a forum as well.
Great thumbnail 10/10
Twitter didn't like that one
well that was a good time to drop twitter then
Omg that’s me! Chy_tea 💕🎉 great video 😁
The first game has an inkling named booga
Wouldn’t say people don’t check the HUD, but the main issue is that I feel like most people complaining (probably…?) aren’t moving around.
((the real issue is just no startup.
Instructions unclear: got hit by a bus.
Ok I felt bad to just comment a dumb joke. For me whenever I get jumpscared by a kill I know I did something wrong, whether its a zooka, a charger or a roller, I always go back and see what I could've done better
Not people complaining about specials that punish bad approaches (trizooka) or your team bunching up on one spot (kraken royal) again 🥴
I realize a special can have a lot of good things going for it (like crab with damage output, HP, duration) and people won’t unanimously share opinions on what they feel are solutions to problems (in this case, nerfs to overpowered weapons). But that doesn’t stop me from being amused by people who complain about zooka being a “panic special” (that doesn’t reposition you or give you any invincibility) or that it’s AOE damage is too high or wide, but then they post a clip like this supporting their case that the special is OP and neither of their nerfs would have saved them.
My only recommendation would've been to censor the names of the players in the clip just in case. Otherwise great video!
I disagree. The startup sound (very low box-hitting sound) and time-before-use for trizooka is way too silent to actually give other players awareness about it, as opposed to something like the ultra stamp (quick high pitched ring).
Seeing the subtle rainbow disappear from a user's icon to signify a special is used (as opposed to an actual LOG in splatoon 2) does not give me enough visible indicator. A particle effect on the player's icon would help.
No person would realistically take the right wall when approaching the scenario. The top plat there is reasonably safe and has moderate cover in case of shots. It gives immediate access to build up points for special too.
The fact that a trizooka shot arches over lots of cover makes it EXTREMELY difficult to take safe positions as opposed to an eliter.
The point about the log is inaccurate because it only ever showed when your teammates used a special. Never your opponents.
My problem with a special like this however shouldn't be "im not a competitive/higher level solo que play." im pretty much a casual player who doesn't WANT to focus on things like awareness and potential places for an enemy to be. Now do I want to try higher levels of play? yeah but everything is pretty inaccessible to me because I have no clue how to start. But I digress. Zooka is just too much of a hassle to try and deal with. not being seen or not interacting with enemy ink or not getting out of spawn differently to me means I can't play splatoon. maybe im just complaing like a goddamn scrub and I need to get better but I already know that. I only reached X rank in this game once and my max power was around 1600 on tower control.
Tbh, I feel weirded out by this because even though I play Zooka sometimes, I always feel like I missed a shot or someone not splatted when they should've... And yes, I can still react to Zooka, so I don't feel like it's THAT broken...?
tbf i think the zorconic tweet that blew up was a super bad example of this
Damn why my man getting ran over? 👀
To me Trizooka feels like 3 quick oneshots. I can't stand it on Sloshing Machine Neo, since it makes a great weapon even better. I've grown to call it the "pocket oneshot" because of this, it feels kinda cheap
But at least you can counter it pretty reliably with longer range
If you were to take into account for every possible way you could die to the enemy, you would be wrong in some way in every conceivable interaction.
To avoid dying to random splat bombs you would have to play slow and careful, being aware at all times, but by being slow and aware, the enemy just pushed further in. Your danged if you do your danged if your not.
Splatoon is just a series of unpredictable scenarios where you have to hope you get lucky with your 20% chance predictions.
Well, on one hand youre right, you cant *always* go slow and steady because you might lose too much time.
On the other, its really not as random as you say. Each game is a different set of players, strategies, Weapons and map.
It may feel random, but if you pay attention to what weapons (& kits) both teams have during the spawn cutscene, you will already know factors to look out for.
splatoon is overflowing with information (audio cues, HUDS, the map, weapon kits), so i cant blame anyone for struggling to concentrate or notice crucial cues.
however, its not completely unpredictable, and *definitely* not random. only lag or hacks will be randomly splatting you.
even when someone is camping, you will usually recognize the pattern and act accordingly.
stealth, element of suprise, as well as visible threat (like a hydra on an elevated level) are all things your enemies will use against you,
but you can too.
you dont need to consider EVERY possibility at once while hiding in ink or spawn. but being aware of common ones will help you make decisions fast.
like a ninja squid carbon roller -> stealthy, fast & short range -> needs lots of their ink around you to get close unnoticed -> coloring around you to not give them that opening
someone squid jumping? before you patiently wait to shoot them, remember what weapons they have. a charged weapon wont splat you first, but a roller, bucket or splatana can.
& if youre just standing there & shooting, or sitting in the ink unmoved, someone else might notice and splat you.
i dont need to know the location of every weapon, the status of my teammates, dont even need to check the map nonstop.
its a balance between information and action. not easy to find, but not impossible either.
I mean, even in your own hypothetical:
Sure. You can blame everything on "random" splat bombs.
... Or you could try to understand:
* How and why your enemies are putting "random" splat bombs there.
* Why you keep dying to the "random" splat bombs.
* How you can reduce the chances of you dying to those "random" splat bombs.
* How you can punish the enemies who are now low on ink.
9:24 “A single streak of green” not trying to be rude, just genuinely curious but Mr. Squid School do you have color blindness?
I think the criticism was valid but the way some people responded to the tweet was pretty obnoxious which may have caused them to be overly defensive to disagreements However, a lot of the replies were fairly neutral/helpful which didn't exactly warrant them being angry towards everyone who gave counterarguments
I feel like there is a genuine middle ground between both sides and this doesn't particularly need to be a debate. It's always good to understand when you could have done something better and improving by looking back at your mistakes, but in the clip used in this video, you see that the shot's special meter was shown to be full for a fraction of a second, and there are only two exits in the spawn which can't possibly be described as just an error in positioning. There is real merit to the argument that Trizooka is broken since there are situations like this where you couldn't have possibly known it was coming or gone anywhere safer that would constitute as a reasonable decision. I feel like looking back and saying "I need to improve because I was distracted looking at the map or went the wrong way out of spawn" would be counterproductive since there isn't anything this player could have realistically done in this instance. Now you certainly shouldn't blame zooka in every instance it kills you, because awareness can prevent it from getting kills, but the problem is that you need to be aware of the possibility of a Trizooka suddenly being on the map with you potentially in its sight mline at all times when it is present. When a charger is on the enemy team, it's a reasonable variable. The charger is either alive and you have to be wary of its sightline, or it's dead/splatted and you can move more freely. With Trizooka though, there are often multiple of them and it has has a very forgiving hitbox, can be lobbed over walls in certain instances, when it's active the activation sound doesn't have enough delay to properly warn you anyway (and the fact that zooka was worse in a previous game doesn't change the state of zooka in this game), AND cooler/savers make it harder to counter someone building zooka because they'll have it when they respawn (though that is also kind of an issue with cooler I suppose). Now I was mostly countering the argument presented by the side that claims good awareness can always counter zooka because I disagree with this more, but the opposite side is just as extreme, and I will make it clear that I don't think zooka is unfair in every scenario. I think it's most reasonable for everyone to recognize it's overtuned, but not totally broken, and not make it two ends of both extremes. This comment is also not addressed to Gem or anyone in particular, I just thought I'd give my opinion on the matter, because why not? I'm sure most of us can agree though that it is dominating the meta, which is never really a good thing no matter the special, and there should always be a healthy variety of options to keep the game interesting and comps unique.
Also sorry this isn't broken up into paragraphs. I forgor.
I don't even care about who's right when it comes to discourse like this, I'm just tired of seeing people getting dog piled for shit that really shouldn't start a fight. Honestly I can't imagine anything more embarrassing than getting a whole video made about your silly tweet by one of the community's biggest content creators to cap off people yelling at you for a whole day. I would've preferred seeing this discussed as general advice disconnected from the Twitter drama. Hope that doesn't come off as too harsh.
And from reading the comment section here, also then having to see a comment section full of more people talking trash about you who may have not even known about the Twitter drama otherwise =(
The whole claim of dogpiling on Twitter is just restating how Twitter works. It's a vast, interconnected network of people. Outreach, signal boosting, potential virality, the ability to interact with thousands or even millions of people at once - that's what Twitter provides. And it's what people WANT it to provide, because that's how influencers, content creators, and suchlike get seen and heard and build a base.
That it's a double-edged sword is an inevitable feature, not a bug. The exact same mechanisms of internet fame must also be able to produce internet infamy. Do or say something that lots of people consider foolish, and every last one of them has a direct line to say it to your face. It sure FEELS like everyone's uniting against you, but it's really a whole lot of independent actors individually dropping their two cents.
@flight5091 yes that's true, it still doesn't make it ok tho??
Coming from splat1 experience, my ears are always open for trizooka activation, even after ignoring splat 1 for splat 2 for some years. Splat 1 zooka was also way more unreasonable to deal with due the faster projectile thats harder to see and the lack of startup delay upon activation. It really does get my thinking that the majority of zooka critics didn't get their start from splat 1 or at least had not played it extensively. Keep in mind, a lot of competitive players started from splatoon 2. Those who started competing or content creation since splat 1 were truly dedicated since day 1.
The HUD is your best friend here, always be looking to see if someone has zooka if you know they have a weapon with zooka.
Squid school is based
I do think this clip is absolutely a matter of not swimming into the enemy team. Like the same play just dies to a roller or blaster under that ledge, for example. However, I do think that Trizooka is still generally extremely overtuned for being unreactable. You simply cannot play the entire match in fear that you will instantly die any time any of the 3 Trizooka weapons on the enemy team has a special or may get it soon. It only takes around 30 frames to fire the first shot, which is too fast to react to the audio cue or animation, and it can just delete you as you are spawning, or any time you fire your weapon as a backliner or midliner, or any time you attempt to approach these weapons. If you are a midliner with a slow kill time (e.g. Wiper, Rapid), you can often get the first shot at your ideal range against these weapons and be punished for it by them reactively trizooka-ing you in the face with an unavoidable shot.
Bro, you didn't mention that in some cases, the Zooka can be really overpowered.
The Zooka is like a sniper without line, and it can move around easily without the need for precise aiming and a charging time.
When the other team is pushing on certain maps, there are only a few places where you can counter-attack. If you go to these places, you'll be taken out by the Zooka. If you don't, you'll have a tough fight against the other team because you won't be in the 'right place.'
Yes, you can wait and see where the opponents are, but Zooka players can do the same.
And remember, they are 'pushing', which means the more time you take, the more points you'll lose.
Ah BTW imagine 2 or 3 of "them", that is totally not an awareness problem.
We don’t need you to mention the zooka guy, we all know who they are, but I won’t if you somehow don’t know. Anyways, I’m not a very good player by many standards, I’m a range main two months in and starting to get good and I play dynamo with excellent results, but even then I don’t have too much trouble with zooka.
Every second your not running, a zooka shot is getting closer to your exact location.
Since I play backline I know for a fact that a inkzooka will be aimed towards me so now I been taking into account what weapons have the inkzooka special and when their special is ready. I also listen for the sound of when Inkzooka is activated so either I take cover or take a position where I can snipe them when they are unaware of my position.
It’s Twitter I don’t have a account on there. Some people don’t want to take criticism and learn from them, they just wanna complain. Recently I been trying to give my friend advice on Splatoon since he can get quite tilted so I watch his replays to try and give him feedback.
I've been killed by a few trizookas this season that I couldn't have reacted to, and I've seen it as a wake-up call of sorts that my special awareness needs work. I actually think that the current zooka meta (at least, for soloQ players like myself) is a great opportunity to improve special awareness since the penalty of not being aware is so high.
Thanks for the video it helped me out a lot🤓
Is this a philosophy channel now?
We shouldn’t have to be this proactive to avoid getting blasted by a single special. There’s too much going on in a splatoon match be conscious of a random trizooka thatll wipe the team. Plus, it’s boring to stay back behind cover and not engaging just to not get splatted by a trizooka.
Check out the Lemmy Splatoon community.
Um jammer lammy lol
Gotta love the senseless whining
Also, alternative title for this is:
Splatoon players once again fail at basic problem-solving
part of this issue is not realizing that no matter how unfair the way you got splatted is, you still got splatted. Dying from lag is understandable, but it doesn't change the outcome of the situation. A trizooka shot that you feel you couldn't react to still doesn't change the fact you got killed in spawn and now have to wait even longer before you can play the game again. which is a detriment to the team.
Whenever someone says they want a weapon or special to be nerfed, and the one in question is fairly balanced and good at its job [Blob Lobber and any kind of charger come to mind immediately], I have to think it's because they don't know how to deal with said weapons or specials. And some don't want to, because it means they may have to look at themselves and recognize they're playing badly, or something like that. I say this as a player who's not really even close to being the best.
Zooka is more broken than marth's grab
As someone who’s played splattershot since launch I think that Nintendo should listen to Gem and not Twitter bc if zooka gets nerfed to low tier I am going to have to use tentatek splattershot and I will be very mad
What really annoys me about the salty player that posted the video is that he actually hurts the argument for nerfing Zooka. By showing a blatantly careless play and blaming the special, it forces people to ignore genuine issues that the special has because they're too focused on the absolutely irrelevant complaint that he made in the video! I saw another player who showed a genuine problem where he got one-shotted through a wall, which is an ACTUAL issue that needs to be fixed, but that complaint didn't get nearly as much traction as the irrelevant one with the bad play. Bottom line, if you want Zooka nerfed, show real examples of its problems, don't blame the special for your own lack of awareness!
I hope your not talking about zorc
The funniest thing about the whole trizooka debate is how nobody complained about the special design prior to the radius buff. Suddenly the issue is the concept rather than the radius? People genuinely don't know how to play against the special and that's become increasingly obvious.
Exactly I don’t want to be negative on the competitive community but I fell like the casual community blindly follows the negativity that the comp scene has.
I personally love Trizooka and Triple Inkstrikes, This Dead and Corrupted Platform, X loves complaining like a baby over Trizooka.
Haven’t played this game a lot for so long.
I’ve been waiting for my BlueSky invite also, because thank god i don’t have a X account.
Just because a discussion comes from twitter doesn’t mean it’s automatically wrong or “baby” arguments. I think it’s fair to say the zooka simply has too short of a wind up, I don’t agree there’s nothing to do about it but I see why it feels unfair and looks janky
Yes, social media in general can lead to yelling without any discussion. But, I don't think complaining is bad if it leads to an actual discussion afterwards. In this case it did, and seeing what people are saying on all sides was good.
terrible take