Those people making these shows [Time Team & History C. C.] have created an amazing enthralling episodic scientific that WE CAN NOT TURN OFF!!! I hope it is still on.
This is a truly fascinating series! Forensics done on bones from centuries and even millennia ago. The process of discovery is so intriguing. The piecing together of the lives of these individuals is too. I would recommend this series to any science nerd. One like me!
I totally agree, especially given that "forensic Anthropology" nay Forensics as we know it, is only just over a hundred years old, Professor Keith Simpson ( Born: 20 July 1907, Brighton ,, Died: 21 July 1985). Who was inspired by Bernard Spilsbury being the pioneer, I do believe. I think the way these scientists , like Sue Black , are advancing leaps and bounds with modern technology and computers is nothing short of fantastic.
Really amazing! Providing us with insight into the past and what occurred in our humanity, showing us how we evolved. Makes us appreciate everything that we have access to now. It’s really quite astonishing and remarkable.
Ари Фёдорович time team is made fantastic by Tony Robinson’s involvement can you imagine the pitch to TV executives we want to go dig some big holes and look for tiny fragments of pottery and go look we have a bowl!
Absolutely fascinating ! I love history and archeology and I really enjoyed this series. I know Sue didn’t like the set-up and felt that it wasn’t organic enough but I think (listening to her interviews) she was very surprised at how much we as an audience loved it..
I would prefer the names of these ladies in this team to be more apparent in the film. I have seen this lady before and have the utmost respect for her speech on child abuse.
I was part of a small dig as a child. It was my dream job. Sadly I ended up in different directions. However this is an addictive watch. Please make more.
For those griping about commercials every 5-10 minutes, watching from Korea, I have Korean "commercials" come up with some being 10-30 minutes long. Needless to say, I hit "skip ads."
In the US we have commercials with TV shows thrown in every few minutes. Not really but thats exactly how it looks and it got way worse during the pandemic.. The companys know more people are pretty much forced to sit in front of the things out of complete boredom so they're going to try to make a buck off this horrible thing. It wouldn't be America if someone didn't try to profit from others misfortune...thats why I don't bother watching TV anymore for any reason, only TH-cam shows. It got to be so annoying that I really couldn't deal with it no longer. So I just ignore the Televisions in my house and rely on my TH-cam channels. Lot less stress that way. And I've learned so many things things in 2020 because of it. Thanks to all the people within channels that have probably really helped keep me sane all these months. Its 1/1/21 now hopefully this will be a better year.🙏
@@tross8863 Companies exist to make money, so yea, I do believe and expect them to put commercials in. But at some point, enough is enough and it turns people away and they get less views and thus less profits. Law of diminishing returns....
Wow these people are awesome in what they do thank you for the respect you guys show them may they rest in peace awesome jobs bless you guys abundantly
For those griping about commercials every 5-10 minutes, watching from Korea, I have Korean "commercials" come up with some being 10-30 minutes long. Needless to say, I hit "skip ads."
it's amazing how these skeletal remains in mass graves .I've always wondered how they know whose bones belong to who I love history and this series is so catching from start to finish thankyou
If the bones are not articulated it often comes down to educated guesswork. This amount of individuals is quite managable. It also comes down to basic locig. Easy example: A human only has 1 right leg. So if you have 2 right upper thigh bones, ther MUST have been two individuals. The size (or more profecionally the robustness) of the bones make it possible to associate the bones with skulls of certain genders and ages. I don't know the in-situ situation of this case but they seem to have been at least somewhat articulated.
"Actual face" - there are so many choices that were made without DNA that not much can be considered "actual". But it helps to tell the story and its tragedy.
All great stuff !! riveting & marvellous to watch & learn, and yet a big flaw in it is this ;- If these folk were bumped off & just dumped down the shaft, where are the rest of their bone ?animals could not scavenge down there & clamber out again..
He looks like someone we might see reading a paper while having a coffee , waiting for friends in their local cafe 😊 can almost see him jumping up with a big smile to greet people..
This is absolutely great. That's the first example for what might be considered infotainment. Lots of sound information, a thrilling story, no pussyfooting around certain anatomical facts. And, just to make it even more enjoyable, the lady with the very short blond hair doing most of the interviewing ist just absolutely cute!
My first thought was, if the family was thought to have a disease, a plague of some sort...perhaps the village decided the infected family had to be killed. Going out of your way to take all the bodies any distance to toss down a very deep hole would make sense. The trauma could easily be from the males fighting back. Plus the additional trauma from being dropped into the cave.
@@anthonytindle5758 looking back to historical maps of the area it is known as both Slip and Snip Gill. In 1949 it’s Snip Gill and then in 1974 it’s Slip Gill…. This suggests both names were used at different times in the past…
I love this series. Just found it. However, I have questions about the huge tent they’ve set up. Who watches over the contents when no one is in there? Why is it on the flat ground and not raised up so it won’t flood during rain and it looks very cold in there during the winter.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Because it's a tv show. Practical considerations must bow to the videographic effects, which are all taken down after filming to prevent accidents.
The hot air from the cave might have been a draw on the cold Yorkshire moors. It’s quite possible some may have decided to live or at least winter there. One family member goes venturing and disappears others go looking for them and also also disappear. As someone said earlier the four deaths could have happened over a couple of hundred years. Random people wandering through the caves and following into the same trap.
I used to live near a windy cave. It was also a really narrow shaft with constant 20-25°C air blowing out, but since outside it was 40°C during the summer the cool air of the cave was a major draw. Caves are dangerous without a light source too. Climb into a cave for warmth, not realize how deep the drop is, accidentally fall and get banged up and be unable to climb out, badly injured and in complete darkness.
The 4 persons in the pit may not have been related, and if this is a ritualistic sacrifice they might have been sacrificed in different times within the period, not at once as implied in the investigation.
I thought when something's been in a certain place for so long the body kind of engraved itself into the dirt or ground it's on so there should be like an imprint of the bodies on their matching tablet to a lot maybe I'm not understanding this I don't know
I am curious as to where the remaining body parts ended up??...it doesn't seem like any type of Animal could have entered Slip Gill and taken body parts? So many lives lost in the scariest ways possible....May all their souls be at peace
It's a pity that this archaeological site was discovered in the 1950s when archaeology was a bit of a joke and not much better than what Heinrich Schliemann did at Troy. That's probably why the bones were contaminated to the point that separable DNA could not be obtained. Heinrich Schliemann was so ignorant, foolish, and incompetent in his excavations at Troy that he unknowingly dug through and destroyed the very layer of archaeology that he was looking for, the archaeological layer that dated from the time of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
The first thoughts that came to me, is that these people were criminals. Their legs were broken to stop escape, then their throats were slit and they were pushed into the abyss. I have a hard time believing that scalping was considered cleaning the skull for purification, but more like debasing someone as a sign of shame.
Yes, criminals! In psychology psychopaths (depending where on the spectrum they lie) have no hesitation in despatching people who get in their way. Yet Inuits in the past dealt with psychopaths (called kunlangeta) by pushing them in the icy sea to get rid of them. So the mystery lies in who were the Psychopaths, the people in the gill, or the people/person who despatched them:-)
That makes sense, I don't understand how breaking their legs is part of human sacrifice, they were purposely keeping them unable to run. Sacrifice was voluntary
I really like that Sue stopped herself from speculation. She went with the evidence. Not jumping to a “cannibalism” conclusion however more exotic that might have been. BBC should, by law, be forced to follow up on such shows every 10 years for 50 years for new findings. 😉😁
I love this show, but the only part that I don’t understand? These skeletons were discovered and researched by countless people by now and they JUST noticed markings on the skull because she was taking a second look?
Wait, Sue is saying that she didn't expect it to go to ritual killing and sacrifice, but that was at the top of my list when I heard ancient, isolated and not easily fallen into. It would seem to me that the bodies/skeletons would have to have been put there on purpose and while it isn't a given that that purpose would be be ritualistic, it doesn't seem like it should be a surprise.
I immediately thought of sacrifice as well. Her complete aversion to even thinking about it, plus her very vocal dislike of the subjects of ritual and sacrifice, was very off-putting to me. As an anthropologist she should be open to the fact that both are very well represented in historical cultures all around the world. I think the reason she didn't see the cut marks on the skull until the very end is because she simply didn't want to.
She DOES want to stay open to all ideas. Her entire career is built on seeing where the facts take her, rather than assume anything. Too many archeologists think first that everything is ritual or religious and overlook more everyday answers.
@@markwilliamson8047 , unless you're a sociopath, you wouldn't want those marks to be from ritualistic sacrifices. Sue tried to see where the facts took her, rather than try to assume it, just because it went to the history of that age.
I don't know what happened, it must be ritual.....er..NO...this thinking is the First resort of the unscientific. Imagine they found a medieval body which had been on the rack, hung, drawn and quartered. Without the written records such a person would be beating the "it's ritual" drum immediately. When this is known to be how criminals were punished. Why dismiss such brutal punishment deaths in prior ages.
@@madinahagberg4942 - Looking around the internet, Wikipedia says "In England in 1036, Earl Godwin, father of Harold Godwinson, was reportedly responsible for scalping his enemies." In the United States, it would appear that both the British and the French rewarded Native Americans for enemy scalps. Lovely.
There is evidence of scalping before English influence... or French, or Spanish... it seems to just be a barbaric inhumane way of warfare, practiced around the world.
Caves have spiritual meaning for most ancient cultures. I haven’t watched it all but I immediately thought of a sacrifice. “I used to work in a butcher shop.....” 👀
Of course these dark woods etc. look 'Spooky' to our eyes. WE are used to shops, houses, street-lamps, cars, buses etc. This is normal for our brains. Would these woods have looked 'spooky' to the people of the time, though? That is what THEIR brains were used to.
See, dark woods don’t look spooky to me, they are comforting and familiar. I grew up right next to woods, spent my childhood and part of my teen years in them, in the dark too. I know the sounds, the smells, the movements. My eyes would adjust to the darkness at night, and I could see where I was going or feel it
Surprised the bodies didn't get caught on the rocks on the way down. I can't imagine these bodies were brought down one by one but left to free fall into that exact location.
The only thing I find baffling here, is how a forensic anthropologist can be so averse to the idea of ritual sacrifice. I'm not an archeologist, but I do have a keen interest in the subject. As soon as I heard the time-period, and the location of the bodies, sacrifice was my first thought.
Anthropology and archaeology are quite different. She wants to stay from the sensationalism of sacrifice and cannibalism. That there could have been a different cause.
Great topic, but the "Blair Witch" theatrics and use of high speed movement from from frame to frame gives it a Hollywood -Halloween feel, rather than an interesting Archeological and forensic story. The Brits do documentaries so well, why stoop to pop culture tropes to appeal to the lazy mind?
It's extremely brutal for a sacrificial dead. Somehow I don't believe that it was a ritual dead for this family, I believe they were slaughtered and dropped in this pit. Normally I would think that a sacrifice would be done on 1 person, but 4 people, I have my doubts about this found. As well there talk about other sacrificial dead person there found, but it's always one and not 4.
it was explained in the show why it was over the top. You also got to remember that during these rituals people were usually high af. The problem is your using your own modern assumptions. Why wouldn't people of the past be sacrificed in groups?
I hate when archeologists don’t want to consider cannibalism. Its common in ancient cultures and I’m sorry if you think it only happened in other places
According to folklore, Druidic ritual murder at that time was by the 'triple death' (Usually reserved for 'sorcerers' or 'witches') specifically strangling, beating and throat slitting. The 'Bog bodies' and Windy Pits remains look like they confirm these folk tales.
Yes, and they all have the same 'chipmunk cheeks' from person to person and across ethnicities. I really wonder if a different person doing these reconstructions would actually come up with different looking people~
I think they may have jumped to the wrong conclusion.From a practical point of view, when a small community is invaded it is best to get rid of the males of fighting age, leaving the women and children to take away. The males may well have been incapacitated and then killed and scalped, for trophy or maybe ritual purposes.
How do they get scans so fast? I've been waiting since June to look at a lump in my neck. They are saying it will be December at the earliest. Not cool.
Because they pay biiiiiiig bucks for the scans and tests they want to feature on their show which includes a speed bonus. Cops can't get DNA evidence back as quick as the tv show does either..
What would anyone want to go in these holes in the earth! Those bodies would never found if you wanted me to go down there! I guess I am not that curious nor crazy!!!!!
Religious rituals - lots of speculation. Let's apply Occam's Razor. A man in the village found out his wife had cheated on him, killed her children, the suspected father and her. Or. One of the earliest gods, at least since agriculture, but likely also in mining cultures, must have been "Mother Earth" - a couple years of failed harvest and mother Earth needed to be pacified/satisfied. Still in recent history, jungle tribes were found (deep in Borneo, IIRC) with extreme "guilt" rituals. When somebody died in the village of tribe A, they marauded village B because somebody in there must have caused the death in village A, generally killing the person with the highest visible anxiety level. Whatever the rituals have been, they were insanely cruel and what is more interesting is how they picked their victims. And let's not forget that we all likely descend from the violent survivors, not the people who got slaughtered.
My first inclination action was... wow a really cool pit. Two of the bodies are teenagers and probably curious. Maybe they went exploring and died in the act one way or another. Why does it have to be murder?
Because 20 people were dumped there in a crumpled heap after they were essentially beaten and probably killed elsewhere. Ancient teenagers aren't known for their spelunking lol
A less "sinister" idea about the kerf marks, to get rid of the squidgie bits to make transportation of the remains easier or less messy. Modern humans, in the US, cremate and transport to places of importance to the deceased. Not a huge reach. Not sure if cremation was a thing in 1st century British Isles.
Wierd woman "expert" on sacrifice. She is scary. I don't think her correct about the cave victims being thrown down dead. The leg fractures seem like the people fell in standing position and landed that way. Died shortly after the fall.
sonicetobehere I’d imagine the whole theatrics of the “triple death”sacrifice might involve the finale of pushing the victim down the shaft at the same time as the throat cutting? So the victim might have been bleeding out on the way down? Awful to think of.
What about wild animals eating them? A wolf bites leg, breaks it, and then eats victim. Rain washes bones down into cave? Guess I need to finish watching episode before guessing.
I love these shows but have to wonder why they would be studying the bones in a tent in the freezing snow in a field. Surely it would be much more convenient to transport them to a warmer area
Meh, I've seen three episodes so far and all the time they really try and dramatize the story in every possible way, there are logical jumps the size of the Grand Canyon in all the reconstructions they do and every time they are aimed at making the story a bit more juicy than a straight up plausible explanation of the events. It's tv entertainment, we get it, people are not going to watch it without some shady allusion to a mystery and a creepy soundtrack, but when they make up stories just for the sake of having a story it gets stale very quickly.
Those people making these shows [Time Team & History C. C.] have created an amazing enthralling episodic scientific that WE CAN NOT TURN OFF!!! I hope it is still on.
I do wish these videos were captioned. And that there were more of them. What a great series!
They are captioned now.
Tap the top right of your screen then tap on cc. I usually keep it off because it interferes with watching sometimes.
They should be captioned. Just click the "CC" icon.
This is a truly fascinating series! Forensics done on bones from centuries and even millennia ago. The process of discovery is so intriguing. The piecing together of the lives of these individuals is too. I would recommend this series to any science nerd. One like me!
I totally agree, especially given that "forensic Anthropology" nay Forensics as we know it, is only just over a hundred years old, Professor Keith Simpson ( Born: 20 July 1907, Brighton
,, Died: 21 July 1985). Who was inspired by Bernard Spilsbury being the pioneer, I do believe. I think the way these scientists , like Sue Black , are advancing leaps and bounds with modern technology and computers is nothing short of fantastic.
Really amazing! Providing us with insight into the past and what occurred in our humanity, showing us how we evolved. Makes us appreciate everything that we have access to now. It’s really quite astonishing and remarkable.
Examination of ancient bones always leaves me with a strong sense of sadness...so many unanswered questions.
Great great storytelling. One of the best shows anywhere.
Diane Brazil ....so true. I wish they made more episodes. This and Time Team are awesome.
Ари Фёдорович time team is made fantastic by Tony Robinson’s involvement can you imagine the pitch to TV executives we want to go dig some big holes and look for tiny fragments of pottery and go look we have a bowl!
you need to watch vedio\\\\ideos dude
I’ve watched it twice. First time maybe 5 years ago. I don’t do that very often.
Absolutely fascinating ! I love history and archeology and I really enjoyed this series. I know Sue didn’t like the set-up and felt that it wasn’t organic enough but I think (listening to her interviews) she was very surprised at how much we as an audience loved it..
I would prefer the names of these ladies in this team to be more apparent in the film. I have seen this lady before and have the utmost respect for her speech on child abuse.
Oh, I remember seeing that! Very powerful
Professor Dame Sue Black.
Dr xanthe mallet, living in Australia atm I believe.
Professor Sue Black is rhe UKs leading forensic pathologist, she is already somewhat famous!!!
Lovely and interesting
I was part of a small dig as a child. It was my dream job. Sadly I ended up in different directions. However this is an addictive watch. Please make more.
I really wish there was another series of this, the English version. Such an amazing programme.
It's set in England for the most part and nearly all of the people in it are English.
@@MsGothmum : imho, I don’t think 🤔 that’s what she meant
This is an English programme
Otherwise the narrator would be American.
this is the english version they’re speaking english like
She meant she wants more english series like this
For those griping about commercials every 5-10 minutes, watching from Korea, I have Korean "commercials" come up with some being 10-30 minutes long. Needless to say, I hit "skip ads."
Or you could drag the time to end and hit replay to be ad free.
Best choice on the internet: SKIP ADS.
download Adblocker, its free.
In the US we have commercials with TV shows thrown in every few minutes. Not really but thats exactly how it looks and it got way worse during the pandemic.. The companys know more people are pretty much forced to sit in front of the things out of complete boredom so they're going to try to make a buck off this horrible thing. It wouldn't be America if someone didn't try to profit from others misfortune...thats why I don't bother watching TV anymore for any reason, only TH-cam shows. It got to be so annoying that I really couldn't deal with it no longer. So I just ignore the Televisions in my house and rely on my TH-cam channels. Lot less stress that way. And I've learned so many things things in 2020 because of it. Thanks to all the people within channels that have probably really helped keep me sane all these months. Its 1/1/21 now hopefully this will be a better year.🙏
@@tross8863 Companies exist to make money, so yea, I do believe and expect them to put commercials in. But at some point, enough is enough and it turns people away and they get less views and thus less profits. Law of diminishing returns....
Wow these people are awesome in what they do thank you for the respect you guys show them may they rest in peace awesome jobs bless you guys abundantly
For those griping about commercials every 5-10 minutes, watching from Korea, I have Korean "commercials" come up with some being 10-30 minutes long. Needless to say, I hit "skip ads."
I love sue.....a no nonsense Inverness lady. Her books are great as well.
Love this show..wish they would've kept it on..
Thank you for sharing! I love archaeology.
it's amazing how these skeletal remains in mass graves .I've always wondered how they know whose bones belong to who I love history and this series is so catching from start to finish thankyou
If the bones are not articulated it often comes down to educated guesswork. This amount of individuals is quite managable. It also comes down to basic locig. Easy example: A human only has 1 right leg. So if you have 2 right upper thigh bones, ther MUST have been two individuals. The size (or more profecionally the robustness) of the bones make it possible to associate the bones with skulls of certain genders and ages.
I don't know the in-situ situation of this case but they seem to have been at least somewhat articulated.
"Actual face" - there are so many choices that were made without DNA that not much can be considered "actual". But it helps to tell the story and its tragedy.
Fascinating ,I really admire Sue Black she's a very intelligent lady her books are brilliant too.
Facinating Show!!! I'm hooked!
All great stuff !! riveting & marvellous to watch & learn, and yet a big flaw in it is this ;- If these folk were bumped off & just dumped down the shaft, where are the rest of their bone ?animals could not scavenge down there & clamber out again..
He looks like someone we might see reading a paper while having a coffee , waiting for friends in their local cafe 😊 can almost see him jumping up with a big smile to greet people..
This is absolutely great. That's the first example for what might be considered infotainment. Lots of sound information, a thrilling story, no pussyfooting around certain anatomical facts. And, just to make it even more enjoyable, the lady with the very short blond hair doing most of the interviewing ist just absolutely cute!
i agree, no repeating over and over bits of info just to fill the hour.
Dry good ptogracm.
These ladies are world renowned professionals in their fields.
Really enjoyed this. So informative and they did such great work!
I wonder what else could be discovered from the debris at the bottom of the cave: What artifacts might the owners of the bodies had on their persons?
I got all the way to the end before I realized I've already watched this video twice. Obviously still very interesting.
But not very memorable?
Without equipment to hoist yourself up, without light to look for a way out, it does become a burial hole. A final resting place.
Alex Lao Along with a broken femur..., yep.
A final testing place? It is a tomb whose occupants dropped into unwillingly.
what a great program
So 2,000 years ago important and prominent people were ritually sacrificed. Today they get elected to parliament. Is that progress?
My first thought was, if the family was thought to have a disease, a plague of some sort...perhaps the village decided the infected family had to be killed. Going out of your way to take all the bodies any distance to toss down a very deep hole would make sense. The trauma could easily be from the males fighting back. Plus the additional trauma from being dropped into the cave.
Why is the narrator saying slip Gill when in the first few mins of this do u the bones are marked up as snip Gill?
@@anthonytindle5758 looking back to historical maps of the area it is known as both Slip and Snip Gill. In 1949 it’s Snip Gill and then in 1974 it’s Slip Gill…. This suggests both names were used at different times in the past…
I would like to see new episodes of this series. Interesting and fascinating.
I love this series. Just found it. However, I have questions about the huge tent they’ve set up. Who watches over the contents when no one is in there? Why is it on the flat ground and not raised up so it won’t flood during rain and it looks very cold in there during the winter.
HAHAHAHAHAHA!!! Because it's a tv show. Practical considerations must bow to the videographic effects, which are all taken down after filming to prevent accidents.
I hope there will be a third season!!!!
I enjoy watching these videos. I wish this was still on
The hot air from the cave might have been a draw on the cold Yorkshire moors. It’s quite possible some may have decided to live or at least winter there. One family member goes venturing and disappears others go looking for them and also also disappear. As someone said earlier the four deaths could have happened over a couple of hundred years. Random people wandering through the caves and following into the same trap.
You puzzle me ! If your watching this you have google 🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️🤦♀️
I used to live near a windy cave. It was also a really narrow shaft with constant 20-25°C air blowing out, but since outside it was 40°C during the summer the cool air of the cave was a major draw. Caves are dangerous without a light source too. Climb into a cave for warmth, not realize how deep the drop is, accidentally fall and get banged up and be unable to climb out, badly injured and in complete darkness.
The 4 persons in the pit may not have been related, and if this is a ritualistic sacrifice they might have been sacrificed in different times within the period, not at once as implied in the investigation.
True. Very precise dates are hard to get from so long ago. We couldn't really tell if it was say one every 10 years.
You might have been able to tell if they had been studied in situ. Unfortunately it seems they were just brought up by locals.
@@Nyctophora or even if it was done a year or 2 apart
Yes maybe an offering to the Gods that was done when say the summer was bad
Celtic tribe 🤔 are they offered in sacrifice? So sad but really interesting channel.
Love this series!
vielen Dank für das neue Video!
Thinks what a quaint little cave.
* Lives near Carlsbad Caverns.
I love this show. I have been binge watching every episode I can find.
Wow ! Amazing info !!
The cave that falls 16 meters is called “Slip Gill” for good reason. 😦
Thank you for an interesting and unusual topic.
Great episode as ever. What happened to the other sculls though....
People had very odd beliefs thousands of years ago . May they rip . Interesting but sad . Thank u
He was a MC Cloud! Romans were there in his day! Thank you! I seeing family!
What effect does the increased temperature of the Gill have on the actual age of the bones as opposed to the apparent age?
I thought when something's been in a certain place for so long the body kind of engraved itself into the dirt or ground it's on so there should be like an imprint of the bodies on their matching tablet to a lot maybe I'm not understanding this I don't know
I am curious as to where the remaining body parts ended up??...it doesn't seem like any type of Animal could have entered Slip Gill and taken body parts? So many lives lost in the scariest ways possible....May all their souls be at peace
Awesome.
It's a pity that this archaeological site was discovered in the 1950s when archaeology was a bit of a joke and not much better than what Heinrich Schliemann did at Troy. That's probably why the bones were contaminated to the point that separable DNA could not be obtained. Heinrich Schliemann was so ignorant, foolish, and incompetent in his excavations at Troy that he unknowingly dug through and destroyed the very layer of archaeology that he was looking for, the archaeological layer that dated from the time of the Iliad and the Odyssey.
Who is to say a hundred years from now they will be saying the same thing about our procedures, limitations and tainting of evidence happening today?
Indeed some times modern archeologist don’t excavate for that very reason.
Schlieman and the other early 'archaeologists' were nothing more than treasure hunters searching for jewels, gold and silver.
The first thoughts that came to me, is that these people were criminals. Their legs were broken to stop escape, then their throats were slit and they were pushed into the abyss. I have a hard time believing that scalping was considered cleaning the skull for purification, but more like debasing someone as a sign of shame.
Yes, criminals!
In psychology psychopaths (depending where on the spectrum they lie) have no hesitation in despatching people who get in their way. Yet Inuits in the past dealt with psychopaths (called kunlangeta) by pushing them in the icy sea to get rid of them. So the mystery lies in who were the Psychopaths, the people in the gill, or the people/person who despatched them:-)
That makes sense, I don't understand how breaking their legs is part of human sacrifice, they were purposely keeping them unable to run. Sacrifice was voluntary
I really like that Sue stopped herself from speculation. She went with the evidence. Not jumping to a “cannibalism” conclusion however more exotic that might have been. BBC should, by law, be forced to follow up on such shows every 10 years for 50 years for new findings. 😉😁
I wonder if we'll ever know for sure what these ancient people believed in?
I wonder if we'll ever know... is there life on Mars?
Most of the ancient Europeans were pagans.
and the team are brilliant each in their area of expertise ,excellent series really enjoyable
I wish i was susan’s assistant. I am so grilled to do this science
You would never catch me going in those dangerous places.
Why is it dangerous?
I love this show, but the only part that I don’t understand? These skeletons were discovered and researched by countless people by now and they JUST noticed markings on the skull because she was taking a second look?
Wait, Sue is saying that she didn't expect it to go to ritual killing and sacrifice, but that was at the top of my list when I heard ancient, isolated and not easily fallen into. It would seem to me that the bodies/skeletons would have to have been put there on purpose and while it isn't a given that that purpose would be be ritualistic, it doesn't seem like it should be a surprise.
I immediately thought of sacrifice as well. Her complete aversion to even thinking about it, plus her very vocal dislike of the subjects of ritual and sacrifice, was very off-putting to me. As an anthropologist she should be open to the fact that both are very well represented in historical cultures all around the world. I think the reason she didn't see the cut marks on the skull until the very end is because she simply didn't want to.
She DOES want to stay open to all ideas. Her entire career is built on seeing where the facts take her, rather than assume anything. Too many archeologists think first that everything is ritual or religious and overlook more everyday answers.
@@markwilliamson8047 , unless you're a sociopath, you wouldn't want those marks to be from ritualistic sacrifices. Sue tried to see where the facts took her, rather than try to assume it, just because it went to the history of that age.
yes unfortunately this series would be better and more credible if they were less dramatic for tv purposes
I don't know what happened, it must be ritual.....er..NO...this thinking is the First resort of the unscientific.
Imagine they found a medieval body which had been on the rack, hung, drawn and quartered. Without the written records such a person would be beating the "it's ritual" drum immediately. When this is known to be how criminals were punished. Why dismiss such brutal punishment deaths in prior ages.
Why don't we have such interesting shows in Germany? It's a pitty.
Because leftist morons the same second would yell 'Naaa.ziiiis!'
Now they even try us to to tell we are no country, and we never had any history.
Addictive series
Very interesting. I remember hearing, at some point, that native Americans claimed it was the British who taught them scalping.
monelle yeh it was during one of the wars I dont remember which. They paid them per scalp which was proof of a kill.
@@prehistoriconion - Thanks, Courtney. Love this show, combining mysteries with history. Thanks!
Not the British, the French. They paid the natives ,per British scalp to prove kills
@@madinahagberg4942 - Looking around the internet, Wikipedia says "In England in 1036, Earl Godwin, father of Harold Godwinson, was reportedly responsible for scalping his enemies." In the United States, it would appear that both the British and the French rewarded Native Americans for enemy scalps. Lovely.
There is evidence of scalping before English influence... or French, or Spanish... it seems to just be a barbaric inhumane way of warfare, practiced around the world.
Caves have spiritual meaning for most ancient cultures. I haven’t watched it all but I immediately thought of a sacrifice. “I used to work in a butcher shop.....” 👀
I used to work at a produce store, I guess carrot tops doesn't fit.
Wtf - an ad every five minutes ?
Is this a new TH-cam thing ?
Get AdBlock
either that or pay for it
It's a year later.
Now it's every four minutes.
I had no ads
Interesting . But also sad 😞
Of course these dark woods etc. look 'Spooky' to our eyes. WE are used to shops, houses, street-lamps, cars, buses etc. This is normal for our brains. Would these woods have looked 'spooky' to the people of the time, though? That is what THEIR brains were used to.
See, dark woods don’t look spooky to me, they are comforting and familiar. I grew up right next to woods, spent my childhood and part of my teen years in them, in the dark too. I know the sounds, the smells, the movements. My eyes would adjust to the darkness at night, and I could see where I was going or feel it
Lexi must live in a city and has no idea what the woods are.
But yeah for someone like that, the woods are indeed, spooky.
and you’re upset about this why? they’re just commenting. your anger is irrational lol
Surprised the bodies didn't get caught on the rocks on the way down. I can't imagine these bodies were brought down one by one but left to free fall into that exact location.
The only thing I find baffling here, is how a forensic anthropologist can be so averse to the idea of ritual sacrifice. I'm not an archeologist, but I do have a keen interest in the subject. As soon as I heard the time-period, and the location of the bodies, sacrifice was my first thought.
Anthropology and archaeology are quite different. She wants to stay from the sensationalism of sacrifice and cannibalism. That there could have been a different cause.
Great topic, but the "Blair Witch" theatrics and use of high speed movement from from frame to frame gives it a Hollywood -Halloween feel, rather than an interesting Archeological and forensic story. The Brits do documentaries so well, why stoop to pop culture tropes to appeal to the lazy mind?
Fascinating
"Hold that thought" when explaining the sacrifice ;-)
I wonder if sacrifices similar to this are still being performed today
Interesting
It's extremely brutal for a sacrificial dead. Somehow I don't believe that it was a ritual dead for this family, I believe they were slaughtered and dropped in this pit. Normally I would think that a sacrifice would be done on 1 person, but 4 people, I have my doubts about this found. As well there talk about other sacrificial dead person there found, but it's always one and not 4.
😮 I agree, sacrifice was voluntary most times so why brake their legs to prevent them from running away?
it was explained in the show why it was over the top. You also got to remember that during these rituals people were usually high af. The problem is your using your own modern assumptions. Why wouldn't people of the past be sacrificed in groups?
@@dinarusso3320 Because people don't always want to die it seems like a great idea to volunteer until it actually starts to happen
Clearly it's an old dragon's den..
Researchers use B.C.E. and C.E. not antiquated bc/ad.
And if they used that terminology the viewers wouldn't have a clue what they were going on about ffs
Does anyone recognise where Dr Rick Schulting's accent is from? 44:39
American or Canadian, one who has been in the UK for quite some time.
How can they tell which bones belong to each other?
Kathryn Shaw I was thinking the same thing
Size of the bones due to age and gender
Bone size relative to other bones, fitting the ball joints together, colour of the bones.....
I hate when archeologists don’t want to consider cannibalism. Its common in ancient cultures and I’m sorry if you think it only happened in other places
Lol Prof Sue Black is an anthropologist different from a archeologist.
Thousands of years ago, it's possible because those people were just trying to survive, starving and malnutrition was common.
I just think they were drawn to thr warm wind in the cold weather and fell in ,then couldnt get out and died
According to folklore, Druidic ritual murder at that time was by the 'triple death' (Usually reserved for 'sorcerers' or 'witches') specifically strangling, beating and throat slitting. The 'Bog bodies' and Windy Pits remains look like they confirm these folk tales.
William Sticker folklore?? Whose folklore?
That is not accurate at all.
Not folk tales, but described by Greeks, and Romans. It wasn't just propaganda to invade the barbarians, those were barbaric times
Love this series, except that all of the reconstructions by her look the same -from show to show.
Yes, and they all have the same 'chipmunk cheeks' from person to person and across ethnicities. I really wonder if a different person doing these reconstructions would actually come up with different looking people~
How’d they find the cave
Donna Smith they didn’t. It was found in 1955. Bones were dug up at that time
I think they may have jumped to the wrong conclusion.From a practical point of view, when a small community is invaded it is best to get rid of the males of fighting age, leaving the women and children to take away. The males may well have been incapacitated and then killed and scalped, for trophy or maybe ritual purposes.
How do they get scans so fast? I've been waiting since June to look at a lump in my neck. They are saying it will be December at the earliest. Not cool.
Because they pay biiiiiiig bucks for the scans and tests they want to feature on their show which includes a speed bonus. Cops can't get DNA evidence back as quick as the tv show does either..
I find it hard to believe they only discovered the skull scrape marks so late on.Didn't they do a proper inspection?.
me too
@@hallscroft Bizarre. Thank you. I have my doubts about Doctor Black after watching the series again.
@@moogdome2562 I think that if you google her name and her achievements and extraordinary work, you will find out that she doesn't need your approval.
She probably fits this sort of thing in between her "proper" jobs. She gets called out by the Police when they find dead bodies too.
All images of the cut marks were shown through a magnifying glass or very zoomed in.
They probably could've extracted dna from the pulp in the molars...
What would anyone want to go in these holes in the earth! Those bodies would never found if you wanted me to go down there! I guess I am not that curious nor crazy!!!!!
Think of all the spiders, which would be huge, and bugs. Just thinking about it çreeps me out lol. 😳🕷🕸🦗🐞🦟
@@grammargrandma1234 😨😨😨😨😱😱😱
😮 I agree, caves are scary
Lindow Man was a high-status Prince from Ireland
Then why the nose like they claim?
@@camouflagejumpsuit The noose was for the sacrifice. In a way, you could look at it as a sacrifice, kinda like Jesus one dying for our sins
@@stephaniebake417 I said nose 👃 and I was referring to the artistic rendering of the skull. Looked like a biased probiscus to me.
@@camouflagejumpsuit I am sorry,
Religious rituals - lots of speculation. Let's apply Occam's Razor. A man in the village found out his wife had cheated on him, killed her children, the suspected father and her. Or. One of the earliest gods, at least since agriculture, but likely also in mining cultures, must have been "Mother Earth" - a couple years of failed harvest and mother Earth needed to be pacified/satisfied. Still in recent history, jungle tribes were found (deep in Borneo, IIRC) with extreme "guilt" rituals. When somebody died in the village of tribe A, they marauded village B because somebody in there must have caused the death in village A, generally killing the person with the highest visible anxiety level. Whatever the rituals have been, they were insanely cruel and what is more interesting is how they picked their victims. And let's not forget that we all likely descend from the violent survivors, not the people who got slaughtered.
How we live 2000 year ago same as today...people are monster😥
That cave man looks like Bruce Dickinson in 1982
My first inclination action was... wow a really cool pit. Two of the bodies are teenagers and probably curious. Maybe they went exploring and died in the act one way or another. Why does it have to be murder?
Because 20 people were dumped there in a crumpled heap after they were essentially beaten and probably killed elsewhere. Ancient teenagers aren't known for their spelunking lol
The marks on the bones.
A less "sinister" idea about the kerf marks, to get rid of the squidgie bits to make transportation of the remains easier or less messy. Modern humans, in the US, cremate and transport to places of importance to the deceased. Not a huge reach. Not sure if cremation was a thing in 1st century British Isles.
I wonder if they used samples from inside the teeth? I would think this material would be less prone to contamination.
In my mind,there is no such thing as a willing victim.
Xanth looks much better as a brunette.
Let me guess, they were enemies,traitors in eyes of the strong and therefore all were executed and dumped into the cave.
they were all killed by the dragon after trying to take the gold
Wierd woman "expert" on sacrifice. She is scary. I don't think her correct about the cave victims being thrown down dead. The leg fractures seem like the people fell in standing position and landed that way. Died shortly after the fall.
sonicetobehere I’d imagine the whole theatrics of the “triple death”sacrifice might involve the finale of pushing the victim down the shaft at the same time as the throat cutting? So the victim might have been bleeding out on the way down? Awful to think of.
What about wild animals eating them? A wolf bites leg, breaks it, and then eats victim. Rain washes bones down into cave? Guess I need to finish watching episode before guessing.
laying out bones in a freezing tent!!! would there possibly be a warmer place to lay out bones??
The bones are not going to notice the cold are they.
Could this bone with the cut mark in it, be caused by a battle axe???? A possible beheading???
I love these shows but have to wonder why they would be studying the bones in a tent in the freezing snow in a field. Surely it would be much more convenient to transport them to a warmer area
I think not there is so much equipment evolved and to be near the cave...very interesting.
Meh, I've seen three episodes so far and all the time they really try and dramatize the story in every possible way, there are logical jumps the size of the Grand Canyon in all the reconstructions they do and every time they are aimed at making the story a bit more juicy than a straight up plausible explanation of the events. It's tv entertainment, we get it, people are not going to watch it without some shady allusion to a mystery and a creepy soundtrack, but when they make up stories just for the sake of having a story it gets stale very quickly.
This is around the corner from me
You should do some exploring and metal detecting, you may find some ancient artifacts 😊