WHICH IS THE MOST RIGID DIAL INDICATOR HOLDER 703 tubalcain
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 7 พ.ค. 2021
- In this video, I attempt to determine the rigidity of various magnetic base indicator holders.
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I LOVE the way Mr Pete taps on each one with his pointer! This man has a true Teacher's Heart !!
lol
@Clay Johnathan yea, I've been using Kaldrostream for since december myself :)
A polarizing filter might help with the light glare on the indicator faces, but may necessitate more light in general while filming.
Don't worry about the trolls and haters. A great deal of us very much appreciate you for the knowledge and experience you share.
Thanks Mr. Pete!
Tubalcain meets Project Farm! I love it.
My old professor in machine tool design told a story about a now defunct lathe manufacturer. They tested spindle runout using a 3 foot long indicator holder. Which flexed so much that the indicator didn't show almost any runout.
I highly recommend the Flex-Bar type of indicator holder if your objective is to curse and get angry.
Yes
Me too!....bloody useless device😬
We often refer to them as a 'snake' indicator stand.
That is probably the only tool that I was happy when it broke.
agree
I thought it was surprising in the first half of the test. Didn’t move much. Yet adjusting that in small increments in a tight spot would be maddening. Better used to hold a mister or flood coolant nozzle.
I have 2 NOGA type holders, a medium size one like yours and the larger one... I find them brilliant to use and so well made...
NOGA - bar none ~
I also find the NOGA fine adjustment scew in the base very useful.
Mr Pete, I just came across your channel. I spent forty plus years in a machine shop. They called me the old man cause the young fellas coming in were all about CNCs and some of them couldn't sharpen a drill bit or weld a bandsaw blade. I was going to do another six years but due to a back injury I was retired last year. I spent the last thirty years at the last shop as the Operations Manager that was supposed to be only till one was hired. I was there for thirty-two years. Always in trouble for not staying in my office and being out on the floor on a mill or lathe. But I was the one called at three am for a emergency. We offered 7/24 services for our customers.
Did my office work in the morning and the end of the day and kept a scrap paper notepad at alltimes for making a list of tooling, material ect.. that was needed or we were low on stock needed. I went through every job package before I put them on the floor for any print issues and special tooling that may have been needed. The largest lathe I ran had a 72" chuck and I could run 100,000 lbs between centers and 200,000 lbs with a steady rest. That was when I did papermill roll repair. The truck drivers that did the hauling for the mills were amazed at the lathe as it was as long and taller than their rigs. I enjoyed working in a machine shop and made a good living at it.
I turely enjoy your channel and I'll go back and watch every one from your first one. Your basement shop is amazing! If you ever decide to sell any of your equipment please contact me and I'll make a trip from South Carolina. I'd really enjoy just talking shop with you. Stay safe and keep those vids coming!
Wow, you had quite a career. Far more diverse than mine. You should be making the videos, LOL. Keep watching.
@@mrpete222 If I ever find some decent equipment maybe one day. I'm quite content watching yours but you have made shopping around back towards the front of the list. If you ever feel like a road trip down south I'll have to take you to the pond and see if we can catch some fresh supper. I'd make a trip up to you when this C19 is gone cause I'd love to see your basement shop and just chat with you. I'm also a single father of a Downs boy or I should say man. He turns 32 the 29th this month. And he's all about going .. anywhere. You take care my friend I've already started watching your vids from the beginning.
And for your Sir! THANK YOU for YOUR SERVICE .
You built the economy.
I have a pile of the Starrett mag bases and they are ok for up to a 2' indicator before it gets too floppy. What drives me crazy is the center post unscrewing or guys adding a third 5/16" extension arm. Loose tips on the indicator seemed to be a big problem for folks where I used to work. Three things I always look for - repeatability, repeatability, and repeatability ... and if time allows I also look for repeatability. Interesting test - thanks for sharing with us!!!
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Thank you for the Videos Mr Pete. I wish I had more time to watch all of them. I appreciate the time you put into them.
I'm still watching. LOL Right to the end too. Crude setups BUT it proved the point. Well done and THANK YOU for spending so much of your VALUABLE Retirement Time in making these videos. Stay Safe and Well. Regards from Australia.
Came along just at the right time as I am looking to buy a new stand. Thanks 👍😀
I strongly recommend NOGA. MSC carries them online and usually has good stock and pricing.
Not being a machinist leaves me to say, "that was entertaining," thank you sharing this video.
Proof the indicator base and indicator holding structure is as important as the indicator, all too many time I've seen people doing setups with indicator mounts a mile long made from flimsy small diameter rods, this video demonstrates the principal clearly.
Lyle, This Time - You Measured Up - 5 Stars - Thanks, For Teaching Us...God Bless...
As always, I watched to the end and learned a lot. Since I don't own that many indicator stands it's very helpful to see such a direct comparison between so many. Thanks for putting in the time and effort and for sharing.
Thank you for taking the time to do this. I hadn't given it much thought, maybe because I only have one kind of magnetic base and setup. I like what the Noga had to offer, I'll be keeping an eye out for one of those.
Great test, Nice to see the results. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks for all your work. It’s really appreciated :)
Thanks Mr. Pete,
Did not realize how important it was to have a good magnetic indicator base until I worked for a Japanese Mfg company.
Had to perform machine wear set-up standardization after grinding 300K parts by resharpening the grinding stones and setting the bottom stone to a base distance in the bottom guides. The machine self adjusted going upwards by a program instruction set during this dial indicator calibration of the grinding wheel.
Don't ask me to explain, just agreeing to the results of Numbers 1 & 2.
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Great analysis and fun to watch...and your selecting the Noga and Central tool as most solid matches my experience for sure,
This morning I unboxed my new Noga after fussing with a cheap magnetic base. It’s the same one as #1
It appears there’s no need to save the box. Thanks for affirming that. The one I replaced had some stupid fine adjusment on the non-vertical arm. Thanks for producing this video. I wish it had come a week earlier so I wouldn’t have frittered around so much on this decision
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Personally I would favor number 1 because of the experience shown by Mr. Pete and his knowledge of the decimal system, also I really like the way he put everything together for the experiment.
Using the stick to point out certain properties could be from his teaching days, of course there is another reason which I am happy to leave to 'teacher' for now.
The main thing I “look for” is any video by Mr Pete. I get excited because I ALWAYS LEARN SOMETHING! And if we stop learning, we might as well be dead. Thank you sir❤
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Rigidity is an important factor, but so is the ability to get the indicator into position and adjust it precisely. That is where the Noga with base fine adjust kills the old fixed stand types and makes it worth the money in my opinion. I haven't tried any of the cheaper Noga kock offs (buy once cry once is a moto I've taken to heart.)
I have a Noga knockoff from Amazon and it is absolutely useless. I could duct tape the indicator to a twig and get more rigidity.
I'm saving for a Noga. Great demonstration!
That was interesting Lyle.
Thanks for sharing.
Thank you sir. I wasn't aware of the Noga. I'll be keeping an eye out for one.
#2, and have had my Central for 4 yrs, and is my only holder at presentt. Thx Pete, will give her a test using your method. Bear.
VERY interesting. You answered the question I was afraid to ask. Now, I know. Thanks, teach
Still love my Starrett rigid post magnetic base with my Last Word indicator attached to it.😊 Of course, I have one of the import Noga's with a Intrepid indicator I beginning to like, too! Thanks for sharing!!! Ken
Love my Nogas.. My go-to. Thanks for sharing
I admit I really like the articulated type. As long as I am the only one using it. We had knockoffs at work and the arms would fail after about 4 months. Primarily due to people not believing you can over tighten them. My go to for lathe work has always been the Starrett with the solid bars. The bases with the rotating switch I have never been happy with.
I started with a Chinese bar type. Now have the medium size Noga with the adjustment on the base. Makes it so easy to adjust and doesn't wiggle the whole arm around.
Thanks
Great test! I use a flex bar and a starrett and an import like a noga.
Great idea, Mr. Pete. This is the pinnacle of education and entertainment, thank you. PS I think neodymium magnets were not widely available until the 1980s
This was a great experiment. I am surprised how they all held up. The flex-bar really surprised me. It things like this that make one think about the rigidity of an indicator. Thank you for taking the time to make this video.
Thanks
Another interesting experiment was done by Stephan Gotteswinter. He took supposedly rigid high quality indicator stands, zeroed them and then turned them upside down. The results were surprising to some. I was hoping Mr. Pete was going to do that as well with his collection of indicator stands. But none the less, an enlightening experiment. As Robin Renzetti regularly reminds us, "everything is made out of rubber".
I will have to watch that one
Or as I like to say, "Everything I touch is deformed".
THANK YOU...for sharing. Enjoyed.
Really appreciate your time you spent creating this lesson. Excellent demonstration on the rigidity 👍👍. What sort of load can the magnetic base withstand before it becomes detached would be another good test. Hope you have a good weekend.
Excellent video. Thank you for posting.
Thanks very much for your contribution very interesting. I am pleased to know that I purchased the right sort of indicator holder.
Watched all the way to the end, will clean up after breakfast.
I know this is an old video but it would be interesting to see the rigidity difference between the noga holder and the direct import copy for that same size
Wonderful Mr Pete thank you for sharing
As a worker in the QA field I found it very informative. My biggest problem is the tips on indicators getting busted and nobody knows what happened.
great video. a needed comparison.
Love your videos. Been a fan for a long time. I'm actually about to purchase a noga. Do you think the results for 1 and 7 could be a little different than the rest because they are not directly inline with the plate like the rest. Kind of like a crows foot on a torque wrench value is different depending on the angle it is in comparison to the handle direction. Just curious your thoughts.
Lyle I would add one more test, as we do for aligning couplings. Set up a bar in the lathe and set the indicator/magneton the top of the bar. then rotate 180 degrees and measure the sag of each setup, it is a very telling test , Enjoyed the test, although every setup is useable by a competent machinist and do exist out of necessity. Cheers!
I think I'm gonna do a test like this with my stands when I get a chance. Thanks for the video.
Till the end, always interesting Thanks
I’m sure glad you did this because I was thinking about getting a number 6, that’s out now
Nice video MrPete, we use the USA made from our NOS inventory a Federal 1492B-10 as our finest stand in the house here. This is your personal more desired style the vertical post very ridged. We also like its only stock green color no longer offered as well, thank you Lyle for reminding us to be thankful to have such fine measuring tools. Lance & Patrick.
Wow! Must be really busy lately! Haven't seen new Active Atom content since Barney Rubbles' son Bambam joined the Pterodactyl Air Force!
Great information as always sir. Thank you
Hello Mr. Peterson,
An entertaining and informative video... Keep them coming...
Take care.
Paul,,
love the video's and the content. i use to work night shift doing maintenance on CNC and manual machines. the guy I worked with and I would watch your videos in the maintenance shop on breaks and over lunch. A quick question for you, what is the best way to make a two piece bronze bearing? bore it under sized, slit it and scrape it to fit or line bore it? Thanks for all the knowledge you are passing on.
Not really surprised by the results, but the old Central and the Starrett stands did very well. A lot cheaper than a brand new Noga, and readily available used on Ebay!
Good morning Mr Peterson. ☕🙋♀️👩🔧🧰. Ready to learn, Sir!
Yay NOGA! My go to, also, but I have more Central holders, glad they did well.
Enjoyed your video Lyle found it very relevant. I can say since I upgraded to the noga I have not looked back.
I appreciate the 6 hours you spent making it. Too.
Thanks
After being frustrated with the number 2 style in allowing me get a proper setup I bought a medium size Noga. I love it.
Great comparison thanks Mr Pete! If you ever feel up to a rematch I have one of those big 3/4 inch post Heavy Duty Starrett 659's.
Hi Lyle, I like the number 4 stand it is so easy to maneuver, thanks for sharing your knowledge with us, another great video, Cheers from magicbytes 😷
Thanks 👍
Personally I prefer the #6 flex arm because its fast to set up and I know its limits,I know its wonky but at the time the price was right,plus I have learned how to repair it when the crimped ends pull off the cable,that's another story.Thanks for another great video🤗🤗🤗
Good morning Mr Pete! Did i miss the answer video to the what is it series 65a??
I had a feeling that the Noga would be the most rigid. I have the upper fine adjustment and now plan to get the lower fine adjustment as shown in the video. Great video.
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About twenty years ago I came upon the Noga. I have been a believer ever since. It is easy to adjust to a very tight tolerance. It is as sturdy as is needed and is very easy to use.
Thanks
Mr Pete regarding Glare what kind of filter do you have between the light and objects being photographed if any at all. That will cut down glare as well as light angle to camera angle good luck
You should do this test on a flat bar with the indicator at a fixed distance say 8” from the base. Then flip the indicator over upside down and see how much the reading changes to show the deflection just from gravity. You should use the same indicator for every test though so the weight is the same.
Good idea, but too late the job is done
Thanks Mr Pete, another good class, I still haven't got a surface plate yet, but working out to get one, it sure is a lot of money, getting there though. Again thanks for your videos Ron from minnesota.
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Always learn something. And, very interesting.
Good Morning Mr Pete
I have to say, I'm impressed by how rigid the naga was given it's... mechanical complexity. The goose neck one was also surprisingly good(until it wasn't 🤔). I expected it to fail sooner.
Noga convinced me. An interesting approach Me Pete.
My only suggestion would be to roll the audio clip from the Hindenburg disaster at about 11m34s.
excellent video mr. pete 👍 I was very surprised at the rigidity of the flex bar looking at its design I figured it would be the worst I was also impressed by the generic Chinese model
One thing worth checking on the Chinese import mag bases is to see that the base contact area is truly flat to prevent the base rocking slightly. Easiest way to eliminate this is unscrew the stem from the base and with the base held in a milling vise take a light cut of both flat sections to flatten the bottom. Don't forget to switch the magnet to off position.
First test it on a surface plate. First see if it rocks.
If not then go to the second step using a feeler gauge. 001 and poke it all around.
If you mill the base I would try these tests again.
I would have loved to have been in one of Mr. Pete’s Shop Classes.... you sir are a marvelous teacher! It’s been 60 years, but I remember Mr Jones was more interested in his cigarette breaks, accompanied with a little(?) Libation with the Auto shop teacher next door... the stink when they returned inside was overpowering.
Infotainment, thanks. Like that noga
an interesting video and certainly proving the NOGA served way above my expectations. I'm sure someone else would do this differently... People being people. So, friends of MR Pete, go out to your shop and do your own testing. Take your own suggestions for testing and use them to test. Then perhaps share your test standards and procedure with your results.
Thanks MR Pete.
I don't buy many new machine tools. but I bought a new noga about a year ago & I love it
Yes
This.man is a treasure. I wish I could meet him in person some day.
Thanks
Project Farm but with actually useful comparisons 😂
Noga always use, flexible one I use to hold a chip shield pretty much all it's good for.
Yes
Love my NOGA and will order a second one soon. I have to wonder if 1 and 7 didn't get it easy on the first test because if the flexed the last arm just moved parallel to the plate.
You might look for a polarizing filter that is used in photography to eliminate the glare off the glass surfaces of your dial indicators. Thanks for all your informative videos. I taught science classes in a former life and know how much work setting up a demonstration can be.
Thanks
No. 2 is my pick simple less moving parts and both rods are a good diameter
noga deburring tools are excellent
Thanks for sharing!
Still with you at 12:28. Most interesting.
Good one. I was one who watched on Rumble.
Yes, and I think they only one. LOL
I think u should put the load on the center(dail)of the indicator,if u put on the plunger deformation can be local(despute the connection between indicator and stand is solid, result a false positive)
Sad to hear Johnny Crawford passed away last week. The Rifleman is still my favourite western series.
Yes, I watched it yesterday
I thought he got killed in a John Wayne movie.
It'd be interesting to see a test closer to how they are used, maybe put a large round bar in a 4-jaw with a 1" offset and an indicator running on it. Then use second indicator to read the movement of the first indicator. That way you would see the movement caused by the pressure of the indicator plunger. Might have to use a tenth indicator for the second one.
I agree. This would tell way more!
Thanks for a very interesting video. The number 4 type reaches everyware but the type 2 doesn't but it's more rigid in my opinion from my own equipment.
They all bring the same question to me, the torque, the force needed to lock and make them rigid. How long will they last before being done?
That could be a second video, a follow up, to compare the tightening force needed to make them deflect the same small amount. What do You think?
It seems to me that in actual practice the force on the indicator support system is the force generated by the spring of the plunger in the indicator and so the force is very small. What other source of force is there when the indicator measurment is taking place?
#6 is the one I use ! It’s a winner in my book ! Lol
Good one mr pete. I've had my old Starrett "red block" I've always called it, for longer than I can remember. But I'm liking that Noga.
Hey you still adding to your vise collection? I just picked up a vintage Eclipse #180 micro instrument vise no longer made in the UK. I thought of you right away. Look it up you'd like it.
Thanks
This is a special circumstance, but in lathes, a heavy indicator base with a solid post in the middle might not get the job done because it is common to put the indicator on the chuck and then rotate the chuck/indicator around a tool so that the tool is on center line. Since you are rotating the chuck you need a good magnet for when the indicator is under the chuck, and you need an arm that is both long, so that it clears potential aluminum jaws, but also a low profile to clear the bed of the lathe. Basically rigidity concerns give way to these things around lathes.
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I thought the Flexbar one did a lot better than expected. The NOGA performed very well.
I was going to add that the Flex put up a good show. I have one that works well, but Mr. Pete one must have been a dud or faulty.
How did you come to own so many dial indicators, Pete?
I had a half-decent one but then inherited a couple of really nice quality 1940's ones
I have a Noga MG 71003 with the fine adjustment at the top. It's expensive but worth every penny
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