Home Battery Backup Systems Compared
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 12 ธ.ค. 2022
- With so many natural disasters and electric grid failures occurring this year more homeowners then ever before are considering a home battery backup system. But depending on where you live, and what solar system you have, your options can be limited. Thankfully, companies like Tesla with their Powerwall have allowed new companies to emerge with equal or greater home battery features like the FranklinWH or Enphase IQ battery. In this weeks video we compare these three AC coupled home battery backup solutions to each other to find out which is best for you.
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I waited for Powerwalls because I have a Span panel. That integration is very nice.
I appreciate your clear and concise video comparing these things and talking about various aspects. You are right, people could be from all over the world and thus can't all be your potential customerbase, I myself am from Holland (The Netherlands) for example, so far, far away, but I appreciate your video none the less even though I can never use your services for obvious reasons. I have built my own battery bank just because I wanted to, not so much out of need or anything, and as such my storage facility has turned out cheaper, but you raise valid points elsewhere in the comments that this solution could stumble on official approval, also where I live. So I'm not going to tell them. Sometimes you take your chances and pray....
I like the Huawei DC coupled LFP System (Luna 2000) due to its high efficiency and fanless design. It is available throughout Europe and Asia....
No. Franklin does NOT have the best warranty "on paper".
I appreciate your video. Graphics displaying the data for quick reference and comparison as you discuss the details is helpful and something many of your competitors don't seem to care to do. Likewise, amongst other details you discuss throughput, which is a detail oftentimes overlooked. Also, you didn't just say something that amounted to "it has a standard 12 year warranty, so it's better", THANK YOU.
That said, when talking about "on paper" and warranties, I think it's important to give, all the details... on the paper. The least of which shouldn't be left out, warranty remedies. There is a BIG difference between a warranty which obligates the manufacturer to repair or replace first, versus having the option (at their sole discretion) to do a prorated refund. I mean, I don't know about most folks, but a refund of something like $2750 with 30% of the battery' warranty remaining isn't quite a good as a repaired or replaced battery (meaning labor included), IMO.
Also, I think it's important not to completely omit warranty restrictions. In the case of the Franklin battery, it has some of the most restrictive battery temperature requirements of any home backup batteries on the market. (They do have a somewhat interesting patent relating to a system of tracking this.) Certainly they have the most restrictive warranty related to temperatures of the three you compared in this video. So restrictive that the warranty may be in jeopardy if installed in more extreme climates without climate control. Especially so if the Franklin is commissioned during extreme hot cold weather.
Also, I think it's worth discussing what's backing up each batteries warranty. For example, is a publicly traded company with a proven tack record and strong financials which uses separate insurance to underwrite the warranty, or is a privately held company with little record at all with largely unknown finacials and no disclosure of any financial resources backing up their warranty. "On paper", one is a much larger risk.
You mentioned "Sequoia Capital". They've certainly backed some winners, but also had some strikes, including recently writing down their investment in FTX to zero. Also, as far as I've seen they never made an effort at any publicity regarding their minority investment in FranklinWH, though Franklin themselves, as far as I can tell, has never missed an opportunity to mention it.
I'm not try to push down Franklin. I think they've made a great product that may very well be the best product for some folks, and they've made a lot of good moves. For such a small young startup they appear set to leverage their opportunities for good success. Still, that dosen't mean anyone should turn a blind eye to the realities that exist, "on paper".
Interesting thom. You haven’t read the new warranty, as you’ll see heat restrictions have been removed. Additionally, the Lfp automotive grade cells are actually backed by CATL, the worlds largest cell manufacturer.
You do this on every video of FrankinWH. Who do you work for?
@Justin @ FranklinWH You're right. I hadn't read the new warranty and was completely unaware of it. Thanks for making me aware that there is a new one. When was it most recently changed? Kudos to FranklinWH for the positive changes that have been made, especially related to temperatures and remedies. The changes certainly make the product more appealing from my point of view.
It seems you've seen my related posts before, but this is the first time you've written a reply related to warranty and temperatures. Obviously now that it's changed you're more comfortable doing so, but I can understand your hesitation before the changes were implemented. I know I commented a lot, and a lot of my comments suggested folks do their own research and understand exactly what they were getting. So, hopefully, folks will do that, and now, likewise, will see FranklinWH as more appealing.
Ke Bi (with FranklinWH) was supposed to reach out to me when/if changes to the warranty had been (or would be) made. I had made several suggestions as far back as July (2022). I haven't heard from him since August after he offered me a free battery. I hope he reaches back out soon.
I hope you can agree that solar advice channels on TH-cam, solar research website, blog posts, and other common sources that distill warranty information down to, simply, "years" are doing potential customers a disservice. Likewise, they aren't really doing manufacturer's any favors. Sure, if your company has the longest standard warranty and that's all that is mentioned it could be great, but as soon as a competitor decides to create longer but much more restrictive warranty with inferior remedies it's not so great. Looking at the total picture and understanding it is best, IMO. Nobody, customers and companies alike want to end up with a 50 year warranties that don't really cover anything. Maybe folks would think companies would, but really then, the small guys, the startups, could never compete because they'd suffer in the race to the bottom without the benefit of economics of scale.
I don't work for a competitor or in the solar/energy industry whatsoever. That said, I like to think I work for the open and honest dissemination of truth and endeavor to help others understand realities that are oftentimes obscured or overlooked. It is that which motivated many of my comments regarding FranklinWH's battery.
I think you should recognize that surely I wasn't the only one seeing the information FranklinWH had made available, even if I was one of the loudest talking about it. Undoubtedly, some folks may have passed on good hardware due to a poorly drafted and unappealing warranty. Now, it should be MUCH less so.
All of that said, would you please provide some color around what exactly you mean by "backed by CATL" and what that means from FranklinWH buyers? Is CATL underwriting the FranklinWH warranty? If so, that'd be HUGE!! It'd be worthwhile making that known publicly, and if it is the case, it should be done. It'd definitely ease many worries about FranklinWH as a company and it being a startup with largely unknown finacials and the worry of whether or not it will be around as long as the warranty for it. Sure, CATL isn't traded on a US exchange, but it's still a giant with a market cap larger than most other players in the US home backup battery space COMBINED. That includes TSLA, GNRC, ENPH, etc. Of course it's nothing compared to some, like LG, but still way more than enough that if they're underwriting the FranklinWH warranty that's something that would add a lot of value to a lot of people.
If you just mean they're supplying the battery cells (in the FranklinWH battery) and providing FranklinWH with a warranty on them versus providing customers with anything... well, I suppose that's good for FranklinWH, but it doesn't add nearly the same value for potential FranklinWH battery buyers. If that's the case, I'd say it isn't really worth mentioning at all, save for their knowing how to build battery cells. I mean, that isn't truly "backed by CATL" from a FranklinWH buyer's perspective.
@@ThomMurphy thanks Thom. Justin - I, too, would be interested in the details of your "backed by CATL" claim, as I suspect it's the latter of what Thom described and essentially meaningless to consumers, or it would be written into the warranty.
Installed a 7.6kw system ordered directly from enphase. No batteries yet but i did include the smartswitch for future use. Did the work myself, have a licensed friend sign off the paperwork. Only spent 14k dollars total. System has been in a year now and has been trouble free and performed great. Imo enphase is by far the best all around, hardware and sofware/monitoring, also easy installation. There is less electrical code stuff when you eliminate the dc current right away. Not to mention the easy troubleshooting with the individual panel monitoring. Also the 14k was before the federal tax credit 27%, 1000 dollars from state of az, and 500 dollars from local utility company. Spent less than 10k in the end.
Enphase is Top quality you are right about that
From my experience they also have incredible customer service! That is worth it’s weight in and of itself.
Very impressive that you did the work yourself! Kudos. I have a very similar system and had it done by a solar company. 18 each - 410Kwh panels with IQ8s cost me $21,000 installed, $14,700 after the tax credit. I really love the Enphase monitoring website.
Enphase is problematic. Every 2 years inverters change and it is difficult to maintain. They can last up to 15 to 20 years but sometimes less. And you you have to find à New one.
New modèle are not compatible.
Electronic control systems change also and they stopped the support.
4 years ago, thé said to me, you can’t change password to connect we stopped working on your model
@Alans The inverters rarely go out, and with the plc monitoring system you can see exactly which inverter is the problem and replace only that inverter. Enphase still sells the older models.
Great video! Home backup is so important, especially for outdoor enthusiasts like us. Have you looked into the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series? It has an impressive capacity, fast recharging, and waterproof technology. Plus, it's equipped with comprehensive protections and can provide uninterrupted power supply in just 0.03 seconds. Definitely worth considering for your outdoor adventures!
In the UK some good options are GivEnergy, MyEnergi Libbi and Puredrive.
Thanks for this! I looked up and Solaredge Energy Bank is not UL9540A Certified. 6 Feet apart for my install.
Thoughts on AIM Inverter/Charger paired with the EG4-lifepower4 rackmount batteries, not a single box solution or as many pretty graphs ...
I installed a 13.5 kWh SunPower battery backup to compliment my solar array. I need a second battery if I want to handle my 30 amp circuits.
Do you have any suggestions on how to draw attention to these changes to try and prevent or take a closer look at them? Do we reach out to local legislators?
Great video's btw!!
Great video. I am looking at installing a Franklin battery (no solar panels) with a gas powered generator as back up but also want to install a SPAN panel. SPAN does not include Franklin in there list of supported whole home batteries. What kind of issues should I expect or is SPAN not even possible in this mix until they have support for Franklin? If there isn’t integration between the two does it mean that the install is not possible or just that I lose some capability?
They support now, if you havent purchase, I know some one can help you about it from franklin.
What do you think about 48V batteries with inverters like Sol Ark 15K.
Prices are enormous for such small backup capacity. My home uses 20 to 90 kwhr per day depending on the season. One of these battery systems would only provide me enough power for a fraction of a day. Power outages here can be four days. My home uses electric heat. As do many in my area of Canada. Battery solution price must come down before I could go there. I guess I have to look at generators.
These are meant to have solar with them. You charge them constantly with the panels and only use the battery at night.
If you are using electric resistance heat, switch to a cold climate heat pump or mini-splits to cut your heating costs at least in half.
if i am looking to install one of these battery back ups whick is the better one in all of your opions
There are a TON of other options out there.
Personally either a pair of 10kw Victron Quatro's running in Split Phase with 50-70kwh of "Server Rack" batteries like those from Signature Solar, SOK or Trophy is a valid alternative.
The Quatro's are a boosting converter with dual AC inputs. Meaning you can leave the utility power connected and have a generator input as well. And they feature built in transfer switches with backflow prevention, UL certification and more. Lots of programmability. You can set them up to consume from storage during peak meter time and then either recharge from solar or recharge storage from grid during "cheaper" times of day.
And Victron isn't the only one. You have the Sol-Ark, Growwatt, Sunny island and MPP Solar to name just a few.
The biggest thing that Tesla and these other "Whole house" batteries do is put your stats up online and sign contracts with utility providers. And the stats thing you can certainly do from Victron or a plethora of other choices.
Alot cheaper and they are LFP, that Tesla battery is NCA and will die early... gone investment. I like the cars from Tesla. But their home battery and solar panels are crap shit.
You’re talking about systems that are very complex and require a lot of extra components and constant overview. They tend to have increasing failure rates, with limited resources on how to service the systems not to mention companies or technicians to service them. Sure there are other battery systems that you can build yourself; buy a hybrid inverter, buy a solar charger, battery regulator, etc. but it’s a lot of equipment that at this point no city or county in California would approve so when an electrical fire happens the insurance won’t cover your home or losses.
@@dalerolph are there any batteries that can charge from the grid during the cheapest time and unload at the most expensive times?
Wow your prices for solar and battery is more than double price for same system installed in Australia!
I have a 4kw solar only with sunsun but I want to upgrade more panels and battery backup what would you recommend Tesla solar/1-2 batteries or sunrun? Family of 4 plus 1 EV coming this summer.
My enphase envoy is not talking to my solar panels, battery and grid tied. I have to wait for enphase to come out and replace it and not my solar company
very good video! even keeled....... very helpful
Does Next Bolt come close to these using its sodium battery
Okay - I have a 10 year old Sunpower system. (working fine) I am sure it could be AC coupled to a Franklin with a battery or two. But I am close on usage. (Grown in 10 years? - of course) Down the road, could I add another complete solar system and have the Franklin control it as well? (AC coupling) or would that require another box?
The Franklin would be able to support a second solar system that’s ac coupled. Just keep in mind each Franklin battery can only be connected to a 6kW AC system, so two Franklin batteries means your solar system has to be under 12kW AC… the DC size will be larger in most cases and that’s okay, the batteries only care about AC power.
Should review the SunPower sunvault!
Some big differences with FWH that you either left out or don’t know….1) FWH warranty is no joke. The A Power is sealed and is only serviceable by their techs, which they have a bunch of in the field. Translation: In home Factory Service regardless of who you buy your FWH from even if they go out of business.
2) I personally know of a FWH owner who’s A Power sat in 20”+ of water for over 14hrs during Hurricane Ian, it worked the whole time and is working perfectly right now.
3) The A Power backs up your entire home with a 15ms response time. No more blinking clocks after a power outage.
4). The FWH has built in smart circuits to automatically manage your heaviest loads. This makes sure you have power to get through the night.
5) BLACK-START! If you drain your battery all the way, it will auto start up, power up your house and recharge as soon as the sun comes up.
I get that you like to sell ENPHASE because it’s easy to install, but the comparisons aren’t even close, FWH is heads and shoulder over the feast of the other guys.
Thanks Michael
How about IQ7 inverters with Encharge 10?
I've been on the battery fence for years because of limitations of critical loads panels in my situation but now I'm leaning toward the FranklinWH setup. I was looking at getting a SPAN panel to get around the CLP limits but looks like I wouldn't even need that. My house here in SoCal has a lot of circuits and I have two separate solar systems, an older small one with Enphase IQ7 microinverters and a larger one with SolarEdge inverter. Would both solar systems charge the battery, or batteries?
With the FranklinWH and EP Cube you could merge the two systems to work with the batteries.
Yeah same here. I finally decided to just get a Ford Lightning since it can act as a powerwall, and it gives me a vehicle. With how expensive these battery systems are, I just thought it made more sense. Now it's just a question of actually getting the Lightning since Ford has absolutely sucked at keeping up with demand.
Yes. LG Home 8 probably the best option
@@JC-lk3oy don't do it! You will have problems! It is not ready for prime time
Enphase next-gen IQ battery arriving in Q1 2023. You will be pleased with the improvements:)
Eh we’ll see
Source for this claim??
@@dalerolph Eh we'll see if Badri's claim the commissioning time will be under 30 min, 10 min for the second unit. Inverter redundancy remains key on a leased solar array. Historical fact, lease payment delinquency is 99.99% directly correlated to system failures. Think about that. Enphase will be the default inverter for the simple reliability issue. Lease is 70% of all system sales in 2023 nationally. Gen-4 IQ battery with GaN arriving in late 2024. 40% increase in charge density and 98.5% efficiency, an improvement over the 96.5% currently
A quote from Badri in the 2022 annual report to shareholders:
We are already working on our fourth-generation battery, increasing our
energy density by as much as 40%, while reducing cost substantially. This
is achieved primarily by further integrating and optimizing the electronics
inside the battery, utilizing our new 1.92 kW AC microinverter variant with
integrated battery management. We are also working closely with our battery
cell suppliers to advance our battery design life up to 20 years and to further
improve battery safety and reliability
Enphase customer service will save you from a ton of troubles. Kinda numb to the fact you make no mention but you exaggerate the warranty comparison.
Try comparing customer service, this is what people need to know, who is on the other end of the word on paper?
How long will my system be down?
I don't know how all the numbers stack up over there, but looking at my own plans, it's pretty clear that if you're not careful, a solar+battery deployment payback time can end up being longer than 10 years even with today's high energy prices. This makes battery spend pretty poor value because you'd be getting to the point where you need to replace the battery /before/ you've made your money back.
The process of evaluating batteries really has to focus on right-sizing the product, rather than an on-paper comparison of which is 'best' in terms of 'features' - this is gonna lead people to buying a battery because of how feature rich it is, or other factors rather than focussing on what's right for /their home/.
Great points, but I think getting any kind of ROI at all is better than the alternative zero payback electric bill. Once the security of being under power In the multiple grid down situations over the life of the system is factored in, any extra cost that may or may not occur is a bargain IMHO
Im gonna build a system that cost me below 15K Euro, and that is 3phase, 47kWh batteries build in converters. So excluding solar panels including converters. Lets say 200 dollar per 400Wp panel so i will buy 20 of them. So i add 4000 euro for those panels. So lets say a complete full system with 8kWp, 47kWh batteries will cost me 20k euros. I don't only earn from solar, i also earn from arbitraging dynamic net prices. Which can run up to 20 and 30 euro a day.
Can you explain how to do battery back up without solar involved. I mean leave solar out completely. Would like it without lithium phosphate batteries.
I’m seeing a lot of videos regarding the Mango storage system. I am wondering how it would compare. I don’t see anyone mentioning it. Too new or not in this ballgame?
Idk 🤷🏻♂️ mango storage, is this another pop up battery company? There’s been about 500 in the last year
man, I'm glad I found your channel. Franklin is the one I'm going with from your Video. I have solar already. I live in AZ, and looking for Battery. I just didn't know the differences in these brands, so I just assume just go with Tesla. Thanks man
Welcome aboard!
Could you review LG home 8?
Good video. I had 33 KW of Enphase installed about a year ago. It has been rock solid. The 40 KW limit on Enphase is a big limitation especially if you have a larger home and you want to run your air conditioners off of batteries during hours that are peak rates (5 hours) . I waited over a year on a PowerWall before going to Enphase. In my opinion, if you are not getting a solar system installed by Tesla, you have zero chance of getting a PowerWall. Would love your opinion on the HomeGrid batteries.
I second the Enphase thoughts - while the 40KW limit is annoying, the entire system is so well integrated that I don't mind it too much.
I have a 40kw Enphase IQ battery and it has mostly been solid. There have been a few firmware update issues and it is plenty of storage to run my two Mitsubishi 3 ton and 2.5 ton heat pumps and the house load for peak partial peak and peak power on PG&E in California. The horrible Tesla service caused me to to look towards Enphase and their significantly better cell chemistry and cycle life.
How much did you pay for that 33kWh ? from enphase? I can do 33kWh for 8000 to 9000 euro home made. Wonder how much you paid for it. And are they LFP i may hope?
33 kW? What? Are you living in a 30,000 square-foot mansion? 🐷 🐖
@@user-ke9yk5qp3u Nope. I have 2 air condiioning units. When it is 100 degrees and your air conditioners never shut off, you don't want to be paying the 83 cents per KW the electric company is charging.
Any advantages to get 2 of 10T Enpower batteries for 15kW Enphase Eco System if using subpanel backup and load controller? I did not plan to connect as a main panel. Just subpanel for critical loads only. Or maybe 2 battery is overkill. Do not have any different electric price on certain hours. Did not experiences much back out since most incoming cables are underground.
I have a 9.8 or so system with one emphase 10T battery. So far it’s ok, during this time of the year the battery will last from 4 pm to around 10 pm using about 1.3kw. But during the summer it’s not that great because one of our AC systems is connected to the sub panel that the battery is connected to. So IMO 2 batteries would be better.
Do any of these products work with seeking excess power back to the grid? With the ability to earn 300 to 500 dollars back a year in California and eventually Texas makes Tesla even cheaper.
I got a 20kwh BYD HVM system for around 12k euro. 6000cycles at 80%. With 26 solar panels, im 80% of the time offgrid. Wintermonths are tough because lack of sun.
Well. Don't know if have knowledge but for me Generac Pwrcell is the better choice. By efficiency, power and capacity.
Yes u are correct we will see adoption to this in near future
What are the "extra features" that you get with Enphase's solution that you don't get with the other two vendors? I'm just beginning to investigate solar, so I'm just learning, but the use of micro-inverters seems like a solution that just adds more expense and more things that could go wrong......Maybe I just don't fully understand all the benefits that you get with micro-inverter based solution....although I think I understand the basic advantages (panels in partial shade, "eliminates single point of failure", monitoring individual panels (if that's what you enjoy doing), etc.). Maybe you've got another video that addresses this but if not can you elaborate a bit or perhaps make a video to educate us all. Also I'd be interested in understanding what solutions exist for powering your home (or at least being able to access some of the solar generated power) in the event of a power outage but where you don't have a battery. Love to hear your thoughts on this or see a video about it. BTW I'm in SoCal (SD). Personally I'm interested in being able to offset the curse/scam of "time of use" excuse to jack up your power rates that power companies (SDGE I'm looking at YOU) that they have cleverly assimilated us to. I'd like to power my house from 4-9pm from the solar energy I've banked throughout the day in a battery so I could give SDGE THE finger. Maybe even go off grid one day if that becomes cost effective to do so at some point.
I'm also an SDGE customer and have two distinct systems as my house came with a small system with Enphase M190 microinverters. I had a lot of issues with Enphase when my system quit reporting. Enphase resisted supporting them, saying I had to have my installer tell them if they were bad. Turned out it was due to the original installer going out of business, the microinverters didn't turn out to be bad. A second company installed my newer system which uses a SolarEdge single inverter. They were also able to get my Enphase microinverters to start reporting again. I later upgraded the M190s to the IQ7 versions because the M190s are known to have a short lifespan. I was on NEM 1.0 before I added the new system. That required me to go onto NEM 2.0 for both, even though I didn't modify the original system. Now they're coming out with NEM 3.0 but supposedly you can head that off by getting your system in the planning and permit phase before a certain date. I don't know of any way you can get your solar to work during an outage without a battery.
@@nicksgarage2 Thanks for the reply. Since posting my question I've become much more knowledgeable. Enphase does have solution to allow you to power your home (in a limited fashion) without a battery. It's called Sunlight Backup. They are the only vendor that currently offers this capability. It does require installation of additional equipment above and beyond your basic solar install and apparently it will cost you an extra,$4k.
These prices are ridiculous......They are making 33-45 percent profit as that's what most general contractors charge. U can buy components directly from wholesalers. A diy guy can install most of it them selves. In areas with strict building codes u will need an electrician to make final connections.....to pass inspections and get a sign off from the building inspector. I think even in a place without codes having an electrician do the final connections is a smart move. U may not be buying big brand names but should be able to buy the components wholesale for 10,000-20,000....!!!!!!
And the manufacture is making 40-50 precent profit, that's capitalism.
User's comment: "This video is awesome! I love the idea of having a backup power source for my outdoor adventures. Can you recommend any specific brand or model?"Your reply: "I'm glad you enjoyed the video! For outdoor adventures, I highly recommend the Segway Portable PowerStation Cube Series. It's built tough with a mecha design and Magnesium alloy AM60B skeleton shell. With a massive 5kWh capacity and versatile sockets, it can power your devices and appliances for extended periods. Plus, its waterproof technology ensures it's ready for any adventure. Check it out!"
Alright , for anyone not understanding the pricing I just sold my old house that had Tesla battery and I’m purchasing a new and adding Franklin . And I just happened to have that same 5KWh system ,IT IS NOT 50k , is around 36-38 k what you are gonna need for purchase price for either brand . Ok that’s it .
Halo we need installation for Residential energy storage
Enphase shows 10kWh where you show 13.6 What am I missing?
Does this batteries work with gridtied system?
Yes, we only work with grid tied batteries
Battery storage is still so expensive in Canada! Tesla wall will cost $30K cad.
At least they sell it at a realistic price
How did you get your REC Tshirt?
From REC
I suppose you dont have the Huaweioptionin the USA? Also , im surprised that people are not annoyed by the AC coupled battery… its very disturbing
You cannot compare Powerwall to others anymore in a non-Tesla solar system because Tesla only sells them with a new Tesla solar system. Did that change?
I have two co workers that did not go with Tesla Solar. They used Vivint Solar. Vicinity contracts their solar installations out. Two different companies installed PW with Solar for them. I believe Tesla is letting companies buy PW In bulk now.
We are having 31 Q Cell 405-watt panels and 31 Enphase IQ8A Inverters installed soon, we plan on adding batteries next year, If Tesla keeps dragging their feet on the PW3 we will look at other options, said this Tesla Model Y and share owners. The Franklin and Enphase 5P are the future with LFP chemistry and massive surge power. But the Franklins are Made In China and that turns me off. Since we have Enphase IQ8A Inverters we are leaning towards the 5Ps. Hopefully they bundle 3 5Ps to make a 15. Two of those bad boys would be awesome. The Enphase 5Ps beat the Franklin/Tesla today for warranty coverage. Consider comparing 3 5Ps in a future review. a 15 year warranty does sweeten the deal.
can I buy a battery backup system without solar and just charge the batteries from the grid?
Yes, and in 2023 they, essentially, qualify for tax credits like solar (in the USA).
How good is a netzero inverter and battery set up. I have a enphase system myself IQ8 micro inverters
I’m not sure how practical it is for an all electric future… you can change the grid profile on your micro inverters to zero export but you have to have consumption CTs installed. This will throttle the solar to only provide power based on your home usage.
PW’s get stacked up on top of each other. What is the code? Is it by state? Not Fed. Tesla is still installing PW’s like that. Today.
NEC, or National Electric Code is updated regularly but every municipality can decide when they want to bother to adopt the newest codes into local laws, and often a few iterations of code updates are skipped - but eventually NEC changes will work their way nationwide, but it might take a decade.
@@GregHassler Thanks. I’m in Texas. Hopefully it won’t get adopted here. If it was updated.
eVault MAX 18.5 has more storage and more power than all three of these batteries. It's also LFP.
You neglected to mention Tesla's "Auto Bidder" soft ware that lets you become part of the VPP and can create passive income. Huge advantage over the others!
Right it’s an awesome feature. We want to leave it up to your installers who you choose for VPP options, but our hardware and software is ready should a program come through you would like to join.
Virtual power plants are limited at this time and very few utilities support them. There is a large potential for them, just look at what sonnen did in Germany with their Sonnen Community. th-cam.com/video/wCTHAH5eP7Y/w-d-xo.html
4:09 Magnesium is different than Manganese. NMC is Nickel / Manganese / Cobalt
You didn't discuss about how the different systems function during a blackout.
Tesla will use the battery until it gets to 90% then the solar will charge the batteries to 100, then the cycle begins again. REALLY BAD for the batteries, especially NMC.
Enphase uses all the available solar first and then battery if needed.
Huge difference. No idea about Franklin, but it would be interesting to know!
Not sure I understand. During a blackout, my Powerwalls will run down to where I have it set, which is 20%. In the morning, the panels charge them first, then start sending power to the grid at about 11am. But they have never gone below 40% before the sun is out again.
@@cabracove Hi Arne. My understanding is that the majority of systems in a blackout will default to battery. This will mean that if any solar power is being produced, it will effectively be wasted.
For example. You wake up to realise that the grid is down, but thankfully the battery is running everything. The battery will discharge to the point you set, then depending on your system and or setup, the panels will either run the house and recharge the battery if there's an excess. If you need all, or the majority of the power produced to run the house, then the battery will be at the same level it discharged to, or a little above, depending on your output and needs. Therefore it's possible that you could be left with a low charged battery as the sun goes down.
Admittedly an unlikely event, but batteries are meant to work in exactly those unlikely events!
@@simonpaine2347 I guess I'll find out when it happens, seems like if it was in the daytime, I'd just set it to 95% and it should run the house and keep them topped off at the same time. My system makes a 185% of what the house pulls on a clear day.
@@cabracove Yes, setting at 95 would keep your batteries topped up, but that's exactly my point. If you do that then the batteries are cycling all day long, between 100 and 95 or whatever you set it at. Do that for a couple of days and that's a lot of cycling!
Tesla Solar and PW. Will pull from Solar during an outage. If it’s producing. When the battery gets close to full. Yes it will then throttle the inverters. So it won’t or can’t go to grid. Then as your battery level drops. The panels will start producing again. I had my Tesla plugged in charging while my Solar was producing during an outage. It’s about the load and energy needed. Vs what you are producing.
The problem with government is every time there's a technology to give people a leg up government moves the goal post to keep people chained.
7:06 your specs for Powerwall are incorrect, specifically output power.
They’re straight from the manufactures spec sheet, what did we miss interpret?
Tesla not that much cheaper. More importantly, I would prefer the LFP battery, because they have more lifespan, are safer against fire, and you can fully charge & discharge them without damaging them. But if graphene-aluminum batteries can scale, I want those!
Fuel Generators backup systems are not compare ? Too cheap
?
We’re talking about battery backup systems being compared.
mans this video is so limited to 3 systems while we have so many more systems like huawei,lg
I thought Tesla recently switch to LFP
For their Model 3 vehicles in China
Literally went ballistic? So that explains all the people I’ve been seeing spontaneously taking off into orbit
It is cheaper to just buy an F-150 Lightning and the home integration kit then plug it into the house.
Cheaper per kWh but not cheaper overall. And you better have a second vehicle during a power outage or you'll have to unplug your house. Plus there is a high cost to just installing their system to power your house. More than some battery systems.
@@nicksgarage2 It is about $5K to install a home integration kit. Backup batteries are almost never used. When the power does go out it is usually for hours not days or weeks.
@@spacingguild Well if you're planning to get an F150 Lightning anyway, then that works for you. I have no use for that truck as most people don't.
@@nicksgarage2 Already got a Lightning Lariat extended range edition. Already powered my house with it during the California storms. Best decision I ever made.
@@spacingguild So SunRun only charged you a thousand dollars to install it? That's a lot cheaper than I've seen quoted. You're the right customer for it but it's still not cheaper than installing a house battery if you don't need a $70-100k pickup truck. I drive an $8000 truck and will never use enough gas to make up the difference.
LG Home 8 smokes them all.
Franklin. Lol😂 🛑
I would buy one or two of them today. However. $5700 for delivery and install just isn’t happening. If they let me go pick up from a Tesla star and use our own guy. Sold. I’d buy today. Cash. Finance. Whatever you wanna do. But there’s no way I’m paying $8,000 for a Powerwall. And $5,700 for it to get to me.
Why Tesla. Because when you look at the other easy installs. Ecoflow or Fx3800. Their price is almost Tesla high once you build it to a comparable level.
As for Franklin or Banaza or Bongobongo. I’m not buying any $8,000+ battery from a company that came along last year.
Tesla will be here in 10 years. Franklin and the others. Dunno. But anything from a venture capital group in San Francisco. Nope. I’m good.
We just installed 2 of the Enphase 10Ts. We couldn't be happier with their performance. Personally, I hate Elon Musk with a passion so purchasing his dog shit panels was never considered.
SONNEN
I would not touch Tesla..... Blow up coming.
Tesla never been bedst, it has always been most expensive never best.
He showed the incorrect specs for Powerwall.
I have a FranklinWh and i have to say i have not been impressed with thier customer service and thier restrictions on thier software. They do not support DIY installs and make you use thier certified installers. If you want to make changes, thier engineers wont work with you approve plans. Certified Franklin installers only! So if you want to expand your system or make changes you wont be able to do it on your own, but will need to pay a third party.
I don’t think anyone “literally went ballistic.”
I don’t think “literally” means what you think it means.
3.8kW continuous output is laughably low for Enphase, sorry.
Yeah it’s not that amazing given most homes use .6kW continuously 90% of the time in our area
Not literally ballistic!
No one literally went ballistic.
Isn’t it funny how everyone is comparing themselves to Tesla ? Regardless if it’s a battery, a car, a rocket or a robot soon.. love or hate this eccentric guy but he did initiate an industrial revolution..
A lot I didn’t hear … look lifo can’t out live 18650 (8000 cycl ore more) 20 years ..even is the warranty 10years ..lifo take twice the space 10 years max .. look it up for your self .. do they invented a new type. Don’t think so .. al the lifo cels i owned swollen up like puffery fish ,, they suck .. sorry fore the cobalt miners, but keep going .. Elon your right again
Don’t understand how anybody runs a business in California, ridiculous regulations, that never end
tesla all the way....from scotland
Sell out
Not sure how we sold how but we’ll look at things internally to see