I will never forget that day. I was on duty as Duty Manager in Athens International Airport and we were waiting the flight from LCA . Our Operations Dept said that there will be a delay upon arrival of the flight but at that time noone was worried about that. As time passed we were informed that 2 F16 were scrambled to find the Helios flight , as the captain didnt respond to calls. Even then, we were not worried . When the plane started to decent from holding point, we were ordered for a state of full emergency and made all the necessary arrangements. That was the time that we realized how serious the situation was . Unfortunately, after 10 minutes ,I received a phone call from my Station Manager who told me the horrific news. After all these years I still remember this phone call. The rest of the day was a nightmare and I dont feel very comfortable describing what we had to do. The next day was even more heart breaking ,as the families of the passengers arrived from Cyprus with a charter flight. Unimaginable pain and sorrow...
Everyone in my office was following the Lear Jet flight on the news in real time. Any plane crash is bad. But watching a plane and its souls flying inexorably toward their unavoidable fate just left us all sick to our stomachs. It was so unspeakably sad.
Oh my, I can't believe the massively experienced pilot and copilot overlooked such a basic issue 3 times, it shows the checks just being perfunctory. What a totally avoidable tragedy. Imagine how the ground engineer must feel.
Unfortunately I doubt he could've save anyone else but himself, he entered the cockpit more than 2 hours after there was no more oxygen from the masks. I cannot imagine his desperation. RIP Andreas.
My heart just breaks for the fear the flight attendant Andreas P. Must have felt as he tried to gain control of the plane. Ouch. God bless him, and all of them.
What better way to go? Get up, do you daily routine, get on an aircraft and just fall asleep. Really no different from dying in your sleep after a normal day. Beats the hell out of yrs in a nursing home with dementia, cancer or some other horrible disease.
As an Ag Pilot myself and coming from a long history of pilots in my family one thing I always remember is a pilots checklists are the difference between life and death…don’t let routine and ego keep from maintaining constant checklist use.::that’s why we have them in the first place to help stop problems before they become unavoidable
I can't imagine what FA Andreas suffered on Helios, the only person conscious and aware of what was happening. Talk about the horrifying stuff of nightmares!
I imagine he did everything his training told him to do, but the being out of fuel and without proper time on the controls of this aircraft, it'd have been a terrible predicament to be in not mention that portable oxygen cylinder was probably almost out by the time he reached the cockpit and he was struggling to do much... If you've never been on ported oxygen before its difficult to imagine, I can only describe it as having air then breath by breath not having air and as this continues, its like your lungs though functioning feel... crushed, as though you can't breathe although you are infact breathing and in his case rippng off would do little good... At least the passengers went out peacefully or at least as peacefully as possible, especially when during routine ascent the oxygen masks drop and they all strap'em on wondering wtf is going on for the next 12mins then one by one passing out, either still in their masks or having ripped them off only to discover theres no air outside the mask either...
@@Feiora He did nothing. He didn't enter the cockpit at the time when the pilots were still alive, he didn't switch the pressure control unit to the "auto" mode, he didn't descend the airplane. He had a pilot license!
@@al-uw4ln you've never been oxygen deprived have you? Also having a pilot license means nothing if you have no time on the aircraft you now have to fly due to crew incapacitation, sure you'll know rudimentary things like the stick and some of the dials but to fly a fuel starved airliner while suffering the stupor you fall into with lack of oxygen and with all the electronic controls off due to engine 1 being off and probably unable to deploy the APU, there was no way to control the aircraft no matter what he tried to do.
@@Feiora Seems he could've used the captain's or FA's O2 mask if he did enter the cockpit. Or portable O2 from one of the other FA stations. Easy to second-guess, though.
Very sadly, I was directly involved with the events that resulted in the tragic death of Payne Stewart. I ran the Flexjet fleet, at the time. We had more than 100 jets in service. Payne had to use a charter aircraft for this last flight, because he was being paid for the trip to Dallas, and couldn’t use his share in one of our Learjet 31A aircraft. With Flexjet, it is standard procedure to reset the autopilot to below 13,000 feet, as soon as any Master warning was triggered. This would return the aircraft to a safe altitude, even if the crew were unconscious. The Learjet 35 crash was the result of inexperience, weak training and a failure to arm the oxygen and pressurization systems. Such a tragedy.
Business Jet Guru, As a passenger, I wish there was a way to better vet competence and safety practices. We can look at historical info and read NTSB reports, but without expertise that's barely useful. I guess people without medical training probably feel the same way about choosing healthcare providers. If I was an entrepreneur I'd start some kind of a co-op where professionals in different fields helped vet services for each other.
Well obviously, planes have oxygen masks and they keep peoples lives, but... if the plane was controlled by a flight crew that’s learning how to fly could save people lives some master warnings are reminders of emergency
@@reyesguerra1829 pilots are usually very well-trained. To try and help, they have exhaustive pre-flight checklists. These pilots weren’t even trained to fly this version of the Learjet 35A. What’s worse is that they made so many mistakes, before they even started an engine. A safe operator would never allow two pilots onboard with so little experience on this aircraft type. There’s a limit to how many safety systems, and alerts, you can put on an aircraft. At some point you have to believe the pilots are competent. Following a checklist just isn’t that hard.
For everyone moaning that this is just a repeat video of a crash this channel has already covered, if you actually watch the vid and not comment 5 minutes after it was uploaded you’ll realise that the crash now has an explanation into the cause - which the other vid didn’t.
@@FATTIEASMR it's happened to me, up in the rockies at 14000 feet and change. You get giddy, stupid silly, and then just start nodding off. They never felt a thing. A four hour flight with no oxy, they were already dead.
If you are suffering, you don't notice anything. The real world seamlessly transitions into a dream, and then you wake up confused... if you wake up. It has to be one of the best ways to go, tbh.
I have climbed in the Himalaya at 20000 ft and was well acclimatised, you had to move very slowly, and any slight over exertion would send you dizzy and close to fainting. I am sure the pilots would have lost consciousness by circa 15000 ft. You can even feel altitude problems in the alps when you take a ski lift from the valley bottom to say 11000ft, the rapid ascent can make you feel dizzy.
Can you imagine the horror all those people on that German wings airplane that was deliberately brought down by the copilot in 2015 faced when they saw the captain beating on the cockpit door trying to get in as the plane was about to crash in the Alps in broad daylight?
Note the Date @11:29 was before 9/11/2001. Scrambling fighters to a unresponsive or a hijacked airplane was standard procedure. Operation Able Danger. Looking it up is important to your freedoms.
In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times to planes who either strayed off course or didnt respond to ATC. All successfull intercepted the target planes within 15 mins. On 911 someone didnt want those planes stopped from hitting there targets. In my view Dick Chaney should be the first put against a wall and shot.
@Ben P, If you're going to comment, make it relevant. Do you have trouble reading dates here @11:29 ? It's all that's on an otherwise black screen "October 25th, 1999".
One lesson is that checklists will fail occasionally. Aside from clear alarms when something looks very wrong, there should be a summary panel which specifically reports any non-standard configuration; so you don't have to check every switch and lever and ask yourself if that's where it's supposed to be.
One rule I've heard is that you should never get to where you feel you have memorized the checklist. Always go through the checklist as if it's your first time each and every time, even if you've done it a thousand times before.
I remember listening to the incident with the lear, it was a famous golfer. What totally amazed me was the control tower and engineers came within a hundred yard of where they said it would crash and when it would run out of fuel. RIP
Oh yes...I believe this crash was featured on "Crash Investigations" or one of those series that spoke to the preciseness of investigators in how much fuel the jet had and where they would end up. I believe CNN covered the incident live as it flew for hours, everyone knowing of course pro-golfer Payne Stewart was aboard. I can't imagine what it was like for those families knowing their loved ones were doomed.
As one of these fighter pilots I would've been permanently scarred flying along side living corpses that are the citizens I've dedicated my life to protect. Totally powerless.
I hear you. I’m a Paramedic/Emergency Medical Dispatcher & have to sit on the phone when there are some horrific emergencies going on & apart from sending help & trying to give instructions to get the caller to try to help the patient, there’s nothing I can do. If the caller can’t or won’t help, all I can do is bear witness. It definitely gets to me, so I can’t imagine how frustrating it is for the crews of those fighter jets being unable to do anything & knowing that they may have to take the plane down to prevent it crashing in heavily populated areas
@@allisonjames2923 as a once firefighter/EMT in the 90s, ive had people die in my arms and them telling me to let their loved one know they love them. or me just being the last human they see. there are some things i will never ever forget -- and some smells I will never ever forget. life is precious.
I was living in South Dakota when Payne's plane went down. I remember everyone talking about how eerie it was. We also wondered if the F-16s would have shot it down if necessary to avoid crashing into an urban area.
@@NicE-jq3wv This. Missing it once, happens; that's why there are multiple checks. Bobbling it _three different times_ takes a depressingly common skillset.
I remember the Learjet (Payne Stewart) accident. I watched the footage from one of the F-16's and seeing the cockpit windows look as if they were fogged up. It was one of the most eerie things I have ever watched, it was one of the most helpless feelings ever 😢😢
I remember it also. When I saw it on the news, I was shocked. I used to watch pro golf all the time, and watched Payne Stewart play several times. Loved his plus-fours!
I can only imagine what that must have been like for the military pilots. The five minutes or so that it took for the Learjet to fall from 49,000 feet must have felt like an eternity. I know that they are professionals and they are conditioned to deal with it. But that has to be something that haunts you for a long time.
Or some kind of O2 sensor that when detects low levels it sounds warning and if no human acknowledges alarm, plane automatically decends to flight level that humans can breath at.
Many planes can actually do that. If the oxygen level drops, the flight descends on autopilot to "safe" altitude (10-13.000 feet). However thi feature probably has to be configured and enabled. Obviously it was not the case here. (in either case)
I can't believe it's over 20 yrs I remember this, like it was yesterday. We had just left Hallandale driving up 95 heading to West Palmbeach. I believe it was Monday, because we arrived the day before on Sunday evening. We were in Florida at the time visiting our paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather. I remember what a great time we all had together. Then, all of a sudden this came on the radio, live, In real time!! as it was happening, they said Payne Stewart was on a flight from Orlando, I think two of his agents and a friend of Jack Nicklaus were also on that Learjet, I remember hearing that ATC had tried to contact the Pilot's but there was no response!! I remember this going on for like 3 or 4 hrs. with frequent and constant updates. when we heard that they were scrambling Jets to get information from the Learjet, to see what was going on, we still were holding out some hope that whatever the problem was it could be rectified, Then a few more updates and then the inevitable, that the plane might have run out of fuel, and then it crashed, so heartbreaking I remember,
There is a separate light for cabin altitude (pressurisation). Pilots just didnt look what was causing the alarm. I don't know how it works in the older 737. I often fly 737-800 in xplane11 so i know that in the ng it ismnext to the takeoff config but it is a separate light
Correction, both conditions are incredibly vital. That might be why they shared the same tone. Other than that, Boeing angers me with their switch to a financial focus from an engineering focus.
I am so impressed! This channel gives a superb depiction of flight mishaps with awesome graphics and to the point subtitled narrative. Even the sound effects of jet engines and cabin ambient noise add to the detail. But best of all is how they respect the folks that perish during these incidents by avoiding displays of gratuitous scenes of crashes or visuals of destruction. Kudos my friends, you have a new subscriber! 👏👍
This is one of those "layers of Swiss cheese" things (where a hole in each slice aligns with a hole in the others). So many opportunities to prevent the fatal situation were overlooked. Serious maintenance mistake, alarm sound poorly designed, pilots who forgot the alarm sound could mean 2 things, failure to account for all the warning lights, failure to notice the pressurization system was set to manual (during 3 occasions), no one alerting the cockpit that passenger oxygen masks had deployed. Very sad, and hits harder because it was so preventable.
@@ianmoseley9910 no, but without going in to how it works, for obvious reasons, there is a way for the cabin crew to get into the cockpit in such circumstances.
You got to feel for the engineer who asked the captain if ''the pressurization panel is set to AUTO?'' The same engineer who had conducted the pressurization leak check, and left the switch set to manual before flight.
The engineer made a mistake by not resetting the switch, but the crew made 3 mistakes by not noticing 3 times. I wonder if this is actually a separate item on the checklists ?
@@lansilver9217 In no way. The pressurization switch is on several checklists used in every takeoff. On top of that the pilots even managed to misinterprate the altitude warning. The consequences of this crash should be in pilot training, and maybe the inclusion of some autopilot software that automatically descends to fl100 if the pilots show no signs of conciousness for long periods. Even trains have a "I am awake"-button that must be pressed periodically.
The first one has to be a quintuple pilot error. 1. Missing the pressurization in the pre-flight procedure 2. Missing the pressurization in the after-start check 3. Missing the pressurization in the after take-off check 4. Hearing an alarm but instead of reasoning that maybe the alarm is for something else, insisting that it is a takeoff configuration warning even though that warning shouldn't be going off given the circumstance 5. Instead of listening to the engineer's advice, the captain reacts with a meaningless question This flight could have easily been saved. It's weird that a captain with so much experience fails to do anything.
The last one is not an error you can blame the pilot for. At that point he was already under the effects of O2 deprivation. No matter what the engineer said, his brain would not be able to process that information
All the deaths were (obviously) tragic. But I really felt for the flight attendant who was still conscious and had made his way into the cabin shortly before the plane crashed. Man...that's just....whew...oh boy....😞
I do ask myself why he waited almost three hours before he tried it (he was able to bring the plane down from 10.000 to less than 3.000 meters). Gut the main question is: Why did none of the cabin crew members tell the pilots immediately what happened (that the oxygen masks fell down in the cabin) so that they could have taken on their masks and bring the plane down before it was too late. The crew must have known that the oxygen justs helds for 12 minutes. They must know what they have to do in such cases. There are still so many questions.
A system of pre-departure cut-outs may work better or in addition to the checklist for the most critical items. For example, modern cranes over 50 ton capacity often have computerized cut-outs that will disable certain functions unless the safety thresholds are met. Even some of the higher manlifts do likewise. For example, If your boom is fully extended, it will not allow you to travel with the wheels or boom down too far. Applied to an aircraft, a cutout could disable the plane from taking off until the switches are in the appropriate settings.
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More great content. I'm always pleased to see this channel upload, but it always means I'm going to learn of something horrific.
Can y’all not put these kinds of stupid comments like: First, second, third, fourth, etc. That’s not appropriate at all. It just makes you look disrespectful/disgusting to the doomed passengers and crew who died on these two flights. Seriously though, just stop and don’t even think about replying with negative or stupid comments like: Shut up or something like that, ok? >:( Also, R.I.P. to all the passengers and crew who perished on board these planes. You all will be missed. Prayers go out for the heartbroken/upset families. :(
Hanro Look, I didn’t mean to be rude if my comment is disrespectful but seriously though, nobody should put inappropriate comments in a sad video for a reason. It’s rude and bad to do these types of things. Just because you can write these types of comments doesn’t mean you should do it in a sad video, especially when it happened in real life so, I’m sorry if I made you feel sad for posting this comment but still I have my reasons why I don’t like these types of comments people post. I hope you understand. Have a nice day. :)
@@jerrycartledge8267 this is my favourite educational channel. The creator? He's really amazing. He puts so much into these vids. I learn a lot every time I tune in.
The quality of the videos and reporting of these air disasters is very professional and wonderful. Thank you for showing what the outcome was, too. I will be back to watch again, but the incidents are so heart wrenching that I can't watch that many close together. Sorry, and, thank you.
Astonishing such a thing can happen. But as usual, hindsight makes the difference. At least is a rather peaceful way to go. Less the one person who made it to the cockpit. Wish he could have nose dived the plan. I wonder if any of us cats would have known what to do? Respect and prayers for those lost.
It seems odd that there isn’t better automated systems for this… strange anyway to even have a switch for cabin pressurization that basically amounts to a “flip the switch and die, don’t flip the switch and live” situation. In other words - an unnecessary single point of failure. Actually, it also baffles me in general that all flight data isn’t transmitted from all aircraft via satellite and monitored on the ground. It wouldn’t take all that much bandwidth to do it - a number of aircraft engine manufacturers already do something like this on all their aircraft engines in service. Imagine if all airports staffed a couple of flight engineers to monitor all aircraft status and immediately advise pilots on alerts and how to beat mitigate issues! It might sound like overkill to some but all medium and large aircraft used to staff a dedicated flight engineer station on the flight deck and some still do. They don’t have to balance the tasks of flying - they only monitor and adjust the machine itself. Ah well, typical of industry nowadays - Owned and operated by managers and bean counters doing the absolute minimum or less to comply with regulations, rather than engineers seeking best practices. Often in our world it’s not an issue of problems that can’t be solved, just problems that no one at the top wants to pay to solve...
Wouldn’t say single point of failure as it didn’t “fail” as the cabin altitude warning did go off, there is a warning light to tell you it’s in manual mode and it’s even part of the checklist. That why I’ve long preferred airbus when it comes to cockpit layout. If the cabin altitude is in manual mode (push button) it shows it in ECAM and button lights up
The trouble is each piece of automation brings MORE complexity, an ADDITIONAL point of failure - and one a pilot will then have NO control over I'm all for flight Engineers though
It wasn't a single point of failure, it was multiple poor choices lead to this failure. The warning sound is point 1 they somehow confused it with a take-off sound? Like they didn't put 2 and 2 together. 2.) the master light comes on they STILL think it's a take-off configuration warning. 3.) the oxygen masks dropped and they didn't realize it. 4.) They over looked the switch FOUR different times. 5.) When the engineer asked if the switch was in auto they ignored him and asked a question in return.
Nearly all newer airplanes have a description attached to the master caution or master warning aural and visual signal of a problem. This makes it easier to diagnose. For both pilots to overlook the pressurization problem is extremely rare. I’m certain there have been numerous similar failures that have been corrected properly.
@@Reaperdeathpunchthe only thing that holds in your argument is 4. 1 and 2 they were confused and they did ask for advice/help. And im more stuck on why two warning sounds sound that similar 3 they had no way to know that the Oxygens mask came down unless theirs a button that lights up notifying them, however given that that are missing warnings along side not knowing whats going and trying to receive help that would've been missed on unless a flight attendant told them. 4. that argument holds 5. Hypoxia had already kicked in at this point thus the captain unable to get his thoughts together
flying on a Britannia aircraft out of Luton UK some years ago I informed the FA that the door seal next to me was icing up and had a thick build up on the inside of the exit door. I was informed by the uninterested attendant that they all do this! So this door seal causing the accident has really flipped me.
On the bright side, if the FA had cared enough to tell someone perhaps a ground engineer would have tested the cabin pressure and forgot to set the pressurization system back to auto. Then everybody on the next flight would have died. So really your FA was a hero.
This is by far thee most compelling channel on TH-cam. It’ll scare the living daylights out of you, make you emotional, will you come make your palms sweat make you all nervous and tense, make you cheer with relief. It’s like nothing else. I mean, How haunting was it in the first one to read “the F-16 pilots observes at 11:50 an unknown person not wearing an oxygen mask enter the cockpit and occupy the captains chair.” Jesus. One passenger was still f#%king conscious. My god. This channel just blows my mind
this is one of the reasons i keep sensor app open during my flights (as a passenger). pressure sensor on phones could save their lives if it was a thing back then.
@@A.R.77 Oxygen levels are fairly the same even at very high altitudes. However the partial pressure of oxygen drops significantly for the human lungs to breath.
The flight attendant, Andreas, on the Helios flight may well have prevented a greater tragedy by diverting the aircraft away from heavily populated areas where it may well have crashed after running out of fuel if it had maintained its programmed holding pattern... This is almost certainly what happened to MH370, although, with it being over the ocean, there weren't any fighters scrambled to identify the situation...
Addicted!!✈✈✈ Watching one video right after another. I never realized how much actually goes into flying these huge aircrafts!! The loss of lives is so very sad but the survivors one's are really great to watch! BTW I'm 41 years old and I've been in a helicopter once in my life for like 7 minutes!! I would NEVER do it again, nor fly in an airplane!!
This brings it all back...I was at home online in Jacksonville, when this broke. I saw it online as my brother was a paramedic for JFRD back them. I heard the squaking on my scanners and followed this online, in real time, one of the first times to do this for me. RIP to all.
Americans don't believe in oxygen. To them it's a "conspiracy theory". If it's not on TV it's a conspiracy. This is why pilots never bothered to take seriously that engineer. He thought that engineer does not now a shit. It's TV fault. TV must announce to Americans that oxygen is important and is not a conspiracy theory.
I don't understand how " put on o2 mask" is not the first thing to do from the beginning. If you are above the altitude that O2 is scarce , staying awake and alert should have always been the 1st thing to do. It boggles my mind that this rule had to be changed at all. RIP to those that died. It also seems like work done on an airplane should be automatically given to the next crew, just in case.
I love the idea of putting similar crashes together. For example, American Flight 96 and Turkish Flight 981 could also be combined, though the results of the crashes ended up quite different.
I remember in a simulator when I first heard this alarm, I thought how weird it is to have such an important system tied to such an innocent alarm. It was confusing as heell and I only realized after 20k and passed out.
Why didn't they use a different sound? You can set your phone to use a different ringtone for each contact so why reuse sounds for two different functions when confusion can lead to life-or-death situations.
They need to show pictures to American pilots. In MacDonalds they know how to select the right picture. American Pilots need to see picture of a crashed plane and a sexy girl in front of that instead of this sound. Sound is confusing, reading is boring , pictures are fun. Americans know that.
How horrific for the fighter pilots seeing one pilot amd he’s slumped over, and then no movement from the passengers dealing it was essentially a ghost jet full of people. God that’s be such a helpless feeling!!
I am the same age as was Payne Stewart and began playing competitive golf at 7. Offered an assistant pro job in Hawaii after turning 13. I took my first lessons at flying at 16. IFR a few years later. A simple thing of not checking to see that the pressurization switch was in auto position has caused many aircraft crashes due to no oxygen. Very sad that day I heard of this occurring.
Also questions the value of flight hours. An attentive private pilot who spends (1) hour flying through a thunderstorm, would have gained more experience than a pilot flying (10) hours through clear skies, while on auto-pilot...
I was working a vendor booth at the Tour Championship in Houston where Payne Stewart was due to play and I will never forget that day. I wasn't a huge golf fan, but I loved Payne and watched sometimes because of him. The only reason I was excited to be there working was to see Payne in his funky knickers (and - ngl - hopefully get his autograph), but that opportunity would never come. As the news about his plane spread, a few of us gathered in an ambulance that was there to provide EMT services for the tournament and they had a TV where we watched the situation unfold. I knew where the player's parking lot was located and the next day, I walked to Payne's reserved spot to pay my respects and it was overflowing with flowers and tributes to Payne. It was a very moving sight to behold and one that will be etched in my mind forever.
Hey TFC I've always been freaked out about plane crashes but your videos are very interesting. The amount of hard work and detail you put into every video is amazing. Keep it up fam!
Ugh, when in training to be a Flight Engineer I had pounded into my head that no matter what if on climb out you get cautions you make the pilots level off so you can trouble shoot it.
@@johnsteward8325 Climbing puts a great deal of stress on an airplane, so in an unknown situation you by leveling off you buy time to trouble shoot the problem.
From the crash information online, it looks like Andres P entered the cockpit approx. 2 hours after the pilots passed out. What do you think was the cause of such an lengthy delay to check on the pilots and take action??
I think that's because he had to break in the cockpit first. After 9/11 during flights that door can be open only by the crew inside. Or maybe he was incapacitated too and then somehow ne regained consciousness...who knows
The official report ( aaiasb.gr/imagies/stories/documents/11_2006_EN.pdf ) says they found it "quite puzzling" on page 129. It doesn't seem to contain anything more relevant. According to the Guardian ( www.theguardian.com/business/2006/dec/19/theairlineindustry.travel ), locked doors might have been the cause. Hopefully it's more reliable than some other articles found online which seem to speculate or outright make things up.
I wonder the same thing. As someone else stated, post 9/11 cockpit doors are almost impossible (if not completely impossible) to open from the outside. Even a bullet wouldn’t penetrate that door. I have no idea how he even got in the cockpit in the first place.
Only thing I didn't get is if you are a flight attendant and the oxygen masks fall, first step im taking just before putting my mask on is ringing the cockpit and asking wtf oxygen masks just dropped.
That's 2nd step.....first step is HUFFIN ON A COUPLE OF THOSE MASK THEMSELVES TO CALM THEIR NERVES, GO ON A TOOT TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO GO UP FRONT TO ASK PILOT ...WTF ARE YOU DOI G!!???
I thought the same thing! I’ve seen a few more videos in which there’s something obvious taking place abs it’s affecting the passengers, and the flight attendants don’t bother to check in.
You fail to maintain Pawne Stewart Also in later, Andreas wasn’t the only one who survive before 737 crash Haris Charalambous, Andrea girlfriend was also survive. She was seen in the control to help Andrea regain control. They manage to divert the plane to rural area.
I remember reading, immediately after the Payne Stewart plane crash, that inspectors suspected that the seal on one of the windows broke--not huge, but enough to make a difference. I had also read that a couple of learjets had experienced the same thing before and calls were made to have the windows checked. My heart still aches for the Stewart Family. I don't know. I keep being told flying is still safer than driving, however, if I'm driving and something happens, at least I'm driving and in control--sort of.
Given my first and only accident in a car while driving was another car grazing side to mirror because they made a jump into the left turn lane prematurely before I was going to with signal on. There isn't controlling another person's driving thus my mirror bit into their SUV. I frankly would feel less nervous about flying.
@@VenomCold Much lower rate, but that also means you are a lot more likely to suffer long term from a car crash while alive. A person I know is in a nursing home in his 20s from traumatic brain injury from a car accident. My mom has had dentures since 17 from a car accident in the 1970s. There is no guarantee you will have full quality of life as she hates being in the passenger seat and the other guy is well, a shell of his former self. But that is a philosophical difference as I see no pleasure in a near vegetative state.
@@Facebook-StevenSchmidlap you're such an angry little man aren't you? Calm the fuck down already! There's no need for you to be such an asshat in all of your responses
This incident has always intrigued me. Craig David Button (24 November 1964 - 2 April 1997) was a United States Air Force captain who died when he crashed a Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft under mysterious circumstances on 2 April 1997. Button's aircraft zig-zagged near the end of its flight. It was last spotted in the air about 100 miles (160 km) west of Denver. The jet impacted terrain about 15 miles (24 km) SW of Vail, Colorado, on Gold Dust Peak (39°28′44″N 106°35′40″W in a remote part of Eagle County. His jet was armed with four [live] Mark 82 bombs, 60 magnesium flares and 120 metal chaff canisters, and its GAU-8 Avenger gun was loaded with 575 rounds of 30-millimeter ammunition. The four Mark 82 bombs have never been recovered after at least 6 ground searches in the area, with the last being Aug. 2018.
Andreas had his girlfriend in the flight with him... so imagine tha situation... trying to save a plane with your gf already dead and low on oxygen brake in to the cockpit while the plane its going to ran out of fuel... that s so bad..
I remember reading about the golfer’s learjet when I was in middle school. I remember how eerie the story was of how a ghost jet was flying over the United States with no one having control of it.
Still hope you'd do one of the big ones (PSA Flight 182 from 78 and JAL Flight 123 from 85) in the future. Besides that, great remastered clips of these tragic crashes.
There are actually quite a few different aircraft, both commercial and private, that don't have an overwhelming alarm of depressurization. It is one of the most insidious and serious fails and yet sometimes only a small blinking light on the control panel signals the problem.
This might sound like science fiction, but why, in the 21st century do we NOT have a way to link up with and guide a troubled plane to a lower altitude, if not a landing from the ground? If only to avert a destructive crash let alone potentially save the lives of the people on the planes?
I love the idea of seeing 2 different incidents with a similar cause in the 1 video. I think it provides more understanding of the issue involved, nice work
I saw this episode on May Day and they made an excellent point that I will never forget the next time I jump in my airplane They said that aircraft can fly virtually on the edge of the atmosphere... It's nearly a spaceship Here is the point... They said next time you look at your Cabin Pressurization switch, translate that in your head to LIFE SUPPORT I never looked at that switch the same again
After watching numerous uploads from your channel, i`m amazed at how a lot of pilots seem to be arrogant and think they know everything without checking, or how they miss gauges warning them.
I remember watching the 737 in another flight channel and your video was spot on. I would hope future pilots watch your detailed videos for educational purposes because your videos could save future lives. The one button that didn't get switch is a matter of life and death. On both videos, both pilots took too long to troubleshoot, before the human body passes out.
I can still remember were I was when Payne Stewart plane went down. I was listening to it on the radio as I was driving to Philadelphia pa to pick up my kids for a weekend down Cape May New Jersey. Am not a golfer but everyone knew of Payne Stewart he was a great golfer and from what I can tell he seem to be a good person. I hope his wife and kids were able to move on with their lives but always remembering Payne.
this is one of the problems with the current system. When stuff happens in the cabin, the Attendants are trained to assume the Flight Crew knows what's going on and is responding. And, assuming the pilots are busy, flight attendants typically neglect contacting the pilots and possibly 'overwhelming' them. If the Attendants would have contacted the pilots here, there's a possibility the situation would have been overcome. In another video, with the engine blow-up over NY, the attendants didn't bother telling the pilots that a window had blown out (as well as a passenger) until the pilot just decided to make an unroutine check on the cabin. This prompted them to descend and slow. Ensuring passengers could breathe. Even with the Hudson landing, there was zero communication with the cabin/pilots except for one transmission. Never once did the pilots ask the attendants to look out the window and report the status of the engines. In their situation though, it didn't prove necessary, but it still couldn't have hurt. This 'automatic assumption' that the pilots are aware of exactly what is occurring needs be reviewed. There needs to be mandatory reporting of specific events. Masks deployed, Hull Breech, engine damage, passenger fly-out, etc.
I will never forget that day. I was on duty as Duty Manager in Athens International Airport and we were waiting the flight from LCA . Our Operations Dept said that there will be a delay upon arrival of the flight but at that time noone was worried about that. As time passed we were informed that 2 F16 were scrambled to find the Helios flight , as the captain didnt respond to calls. Even then, we were not worried .
When the plane started to decent from holding point, we were ordered for a state of full emergency and made all the necessary arrangements. That was the time that we realized how serious the situation was . Unfortunately, after 10 minutes ,I received a phone call from my Station Manager who told me the horrific news. After all these years I still remember this phone call.
The rest of the day was a nightmare and I dont feel very comfortable describing what we had to do.
The next day was even more heart breaking ,as the families of the passengers arrived from Cyprus with a charter flight. Unimaginable pain and sorrow...
Andres P needs a memorial to honour his bravery. Both incidents are just so incredibly sad. RIP to all the victims.
Julie Balfour 100% yes
Agree to your statement
Agree
Totally true
That’s affirmative
It's amazing to think that things like this go on while most of us in the world are completely unaware that it's happening
Exactly. It haunts me.
Everyone in my office was following the Lear Jet flight on the news in real time.
Any plane crash is bad. But watching a plane and its souls flying inexorably toward their unavoidable fate just left us all sick to our stomachs. It was so unspeakably sad.
Oh my, I can't believe the massively experienced pilot and copilot overlooked such a basic issue 3 times, it shows the checks just being perfunctory. What a totally avoidable tragedy. Imagine how the ground engineer must feel.
Yeah errors all around caused all the deaths. Reprehensible actually
Four times. The fourth was when the ground engineer asked if the switch was set to auto, and instead of checking they responded to a question.
I was thinking, why did they not check altitude and realize it was that alarm? Something doesn't seem right
@@Reaperdeathpunch that was hypoxia in effect the captain couldn't gather his thought's similar to you just before you go out from antistatics
@@maximwannabepro3021 ah yes 5,000 feet above the ground where there's oxygen yeah hypoxia set in.
Bless Andreas for making an effort to save all of those people
I wish he could have saved everyone... he tried his best
Unfortunately I doubt he could've save anyone else but himself, he entered the cockpit more than 2 hours after there was no more oxygen from the masks.
I cannot imagine his desperation. RIP Andreas.
@@darcanxIn the later, Haris(Andreas girlfriend) also helping Andreas at the end
My heart just breaks for the fear the flight attendant Andreas P. Must have felt as he tried to gain control of the plane. Ouch. God bless him, and all of them.
Another one who also help Andreas.P at the end
She is Andreas.P girl friend, Haris Charalambous
As horrible as it is, at least the passengers were unconscious before the horrific descent. I was actually thankful for that.
Me.too.
What better way to go? Get up, do you daily routine, get on an aircraft and just fall asleep. Really no different from dying in your sleep after a normal day. Beats the hell out of yrs in a nursing home with dementia, cancer or some other horrible disease.
How the fuck did you get the name Jane doe.
@@chocolatechipcoochie3677 how the fuck did you get the name Chocolatechip coochie? 🤣
@@ItsMOMOBitches I typed it in and it worked. Sheer luck I suppose lol.
As an Ag Pilot myself and coming from a long history of pilots in my family one thing I always remember is a pilots checklists are the difference between life and death…don’t let routine and ego keep from maintaining constant checklist use.::that’s why we have them in the first place to help stop problems before they become unavoidable
I can't imagine what FA Andreas suffered on Helios, the only person conscious and aware of what was happening. Talk about the horrifying stuff of nightmares!
I imagine he did everything his training told him to do, but the being out of fuel and without proper time on the controls of this aircraft, it'd have been a terrible predicament to be in not mention that portable oxygen cylinder was probably almost out by the time he reached the cockpit and he was struggling to do much... If you've never been on ported oxygen before its difficult to imagine, I can only describe it as having air then breath by breath not having air and as this continues, its like your lungs though functioning feel... crushed, as though you can't breathe although you are infact breathing and in his case rippng off would do little good... At least the passengers went out peacefully or at least as peacefully as possible, especially when during routine ascent the oxygen masks drop and they all strap'em on wondering wtf is going on for the next 12mins then one by one passing out, either still in their masks or having ripped them off only to discover theres no air outside the mask either...
@@Feiora He did nothing. He didn't enter the cockpit at the time when the pilots were still alive, he didn't switch the pressure control unit to the "auto" mode, he didn't descend the airplane. He had a pilot license!
@@al-uw4ln you've never been oxygen deprived have you? Also having a pilot license means nothing if you have no time on the aircraft you now have to fly due to crew incapacitation, sure you'll know rudimentary things like the stick and some of the dials but to fly a fuel starved airliner while suffering the stupor you fall into with lack of oxygen and with all the electronic controls off due to engine 1 being off and probably unable to deploy the APU, there was no way to control the aircraft no matter what he tried to do.
It is scary AF
@@Feiora Seems he could've used the captain's or FA's O2 mask if he did enter the cockpit. Or portable O2 from one of the other FA stations.
Easy to second-guess, though.
Very sadly, I was directly involved with the events that resulted in the tragic death of Payne Stewart. I ran the Flexjet fleet, at the time. We had more than 100 jets in service. Payne had to use a charter aircraft for this last flight, because he was being paid for the trip to Dallas, and couldn’t use his share in one of our Learjet 31A aircraft. With Flexjet, it is standard procedure to reset the autopilot to below 13,000 feet, as soon as any Master warning was triggered. This would return the aircraft to a safe altitude, even if the crew were unconscious. The Learjet 35 crash was the result of inexperience, weak training and a failure to arm the oxygen and pressurization systems. Such a tragedy.
Business Jet Guru, As a passenger, I wish there was a way to better vet competence and safety practices. We can look at historical info and read NTSB reports, but without expertise that's barely useful. I guess people without medical training probably feel the same way about choosing healthcare providers. If I was an entrepreneur I'd start some kind of a co-op where professionals in different fields helped vet services for each other.
That is very sad.....
Well obviously, planes have oxygen masks and they keep peoples lives, but... if the plane was controlled by a flight crew that’s learning how to fly could save people lives some master warnings are reminders of emergency
@@reyesguerra1829 pilots are usually very well-trained. To try and help, they have exhaustive pre-flight checklists. These pilots weren’t even trained to fly this version of the Learjet 35A. What’s worse is that they made so many mistakes, before they even started an engine. A safe operator would never allow two pilots onboard with so little experience on this aircraft type. There’s a limit to how many safety systems, and alerts, you can put on an aircraft. At some point you have to believe the pilots are competent. Following a checklist just isn’t that hard.
@@businessjetguru1298 I’ll try fly a plane
For everyone moaning that this is just a repeat video of a crash this channel has already covered, if you actually watch the vid and not comment 5 minutes after it was uploaded you’ll realise that the crash now has an explanation into the cause - which the other vid didn’t.
still the same video. fc has a reputation of that.
I guess the word "updated" is a bit too much to ask for the title.
EDIT: This looks like it combines two videos into one...so it's a bit different.
the previous video also had an explanation, it's EXACTLY the same
@@ki5aok It's NOT updated, it's exactly the same, same explanation. The 82 people who liked his comment were misled.
For those complaining this is recycled material - it’s not JUST recycled material - it’s A BONUS DOUBLE DOSE of recycled material!
Wow, this was a lot more sad than expected. Especially the first one. The idea of hypoxia really is terrifying, and eerie.
Omg...hypoxia..is it that difficult to handle in an airplane
Andreas is a hero, I cannot imagine the fear and sense of isolation he must have felt when he entered the cabin. God bless him for trying😔🙏
Andreas and Haris are hero in this case
I remember when Stewart died. It was on tv while the flight was still airborne! That was very sad and frightful.
The sad thing about depressurization is you dont realise your going through it until its to late
So true! You don’t know when you’re hypoxic.
@@FATTIEASMR it's happened to me, up in the rockies at 14000 feet and change. You get giddy, stupid silly, and then just start nodding off. They never felt a thing. A four hour flight with no oxy, they were already dead.
It's a peaceful way to go
If you are suffering, you don't notice anything. The real world seamlessly transitions into a dream, and then you wake up confused... if you wake up. It has to be one of the best ways to go, tbh.
I have climbed in the Himalaya at 20000 ft and was well acclimatised, you had to move very slowly, and any slight over exertion would send you dizzy and close to fainting. I am sure the pilots would have lost consciousness by circa 15000 ft.
You can even feel altitude problems in the alps when you take a ski lift from the valley bottom to say 11000ft, the rapid ascent can make you feel dizzy.
My heart really breaks for that poor flight attendant. They knew they were screwed. How horrifying.
But He Tried to save them poor flight attendant and the rest of them
Can you imagine the horror all those people on that German wings airplane that was deliberately brought down by the copilot in 2015 faced when they saw the captain beating on the cockpit door trying to get in as the plane was about to crash in the Alps in broad daylight?
@@rangerider51 Ya I felt Bad for them
"He". The others were unconcious.
@@Facebook-StevenSchmidlap I see civility and decorum are alive and well on TH-cam.
If you even know what those are.
Note the Date @11:29 was before 9/11/2001. Scrambling fighters to a unresponsive or a hijacked airplane was standard procedure. Operation Able Danger. Looking it up is important to your freedoms.
In the year 2000 jets were scrambled 129 times to planes who either strayed off course or didnt respond to ATC. All successfull intercepted the target planes within 15 mins. On 911 someone didnt want those planes stopped from hitting there targets. In my view Dick Chaney should be the first put against a wall and shot.
It wasn’t Cheney or anyone in the government’s fault
@Ben P, If you're going to comment, make it relevant. Do you have trouble reading dates here @11:29 ? It's all that's on an otherwise black screen "October 25th, 1999".
@Ben P, You're on the wrong thread. This is about fighter scrambling prior to 9/11/01.
Peter Duffy 129 times out of how many ?
One lesson is that checklists will fail occasionally. Aside from clear alarms when something looks very wrong, there should be a summary panel which specifically reports any non-standard configuration; so you don't have to check every switch and lever and ask yourself if that's where it's supposed to be.
One rule I've heard is that you should never get to where you feel you have memorized the checklist. Always go through the checklist as if it's your first time each and every time, even if you've done it a thousand times before.
I remember listening to the incident with the lear, it was a famous golfer. What totally amazed me was the control tower and engineers came within a hundred yard of where they said it would crash and when it would run out of fuel. RIP
Oh yes...I believe this crash was featured on "Crash Investigations" or one of those series that spoke to the preciseness of investigators in how much fuel the jet had and where they would end up.
I believe CNN covered the incident live as it flew for hours, everyone knowing of course pro-golfer Payne Stewart was aboard. I can't imagine what it was like for those families knowing their loved ones were doomed.
As one of these fighter pilots I would've been permanently scarred flying along side living corpses that are the citizens I've dedicated my life to protect. Totally powerless.
I hear you. I’m a Paramedic/Emergency Medical Dispatcher & have to sit on the phone when there are some horrific emergencies going on & apart from sending help & trying to give instructions to get the caller to try to help the patient, there’s nothing I can do. If the caller can’t or won’t help, all I can do is bear witness. It definitely gets to me, so I can’t imagine how frustrating it is for the crews of those fighter jets being unable to do anything & knowing that they may have to take the plane down to prevent it crashing in heavily populated areas
Dead men flying.
@@allisonjames2923 as a once firefighter/EMT in the 90s, ive had people die in my arms and them telling me to let their loved one know they love them. or me just being the last human they see. there are some things i will never ever forget -- and some smells I will never ever forget. life is precious.
Living corpse?
Well they are dead from lack of air
RIP TO ALL THOSE WHO DIED.YOUR VIDEOS ARE SO DAMN GREAT YOU DESERVE MORE SUBSCRIBERS
I was living in South Dakota when Payne's plane went down. I remember everyone talking about how eerie it was. We also wondered if the F-16s would have shot it down if necessary to avoid crashing into an urban area.
No one: (Awkward Silence)
TH-cam: Hey you want to be completely depressed and disturbed for the rest of the day?
Everyone: Sure, I’m bored. (Click)
That helios one was sooooo close to being saved, had they just registered that question from the engineer
Seems like if they got hold of the engineer just seconds sooner the plane would've been saved
@@chiantiar yeah man, literally seconds could have saved this plane
Or caught the setting on the different checks
@@NicE-jq3wv This. Missing it once, happens; that's why there are multiple checks. Bobbling it _three different times_ takes a depressingly common skillset.
@@jeffdickey too true :/
I remember the Learjet (Payne Stewart) accident. I watched the footage from one of the F-16's and seeing the cockpit windows look as if they were fogged up. It was one of the most eerie things I have ever watched, it was one of the most helpless feelings ever 😢😢
I remember it also. When I saw it on the news, I was shocked. I used to watch pro golf all the time, and watched Payne Stewart play several times. Loved his plus-fours!
I can only imagine what that must have been like for the military pilots. The five minutes or so that it took for the Learjet to fall from 49,000 feet must have felt like an eternity. I know that they are professionals and they are conditioned to deal with it. But that has to be something that haunts you for a long time.
Or some kind of O2 sensor that when detects low levels it sounds warning and if no human acknowledges alarm, plane automatically decends to flight level that humans can breath at.
Many planes can actually do that. If the oxygen level drops, the flight descends on autopilot to "safe" altitude (10-13.000 feet). However thi feature probably has to be configured and enabled. Obviously it was not the case here. (in either case)
I thought the same as Julie Balfour, Andres P. needs some type of recognition for his bravery.
Sorry for my insufficient knowledge but could you give me context on Julie Balfore?
I can't believe it's over 20 yrs I remember this, like it was yesterday. We had just left Hallandale driving up 95 heading to West Palmbeach. I believe it was Monday, because we arrived the day before on Sunday evening. We were in Florida at the time visiting our paternal grandmother and maternal grandfather.
I remember what a great time we all had together. Then, all of a sudden this came on the radio, live, In real time!! as it was happening, they said Payne Stewart was on a flight from Orlando, I think two of his agents and a friend of Jack Nicklaus were also on that Learjet, I remember hearing that ATC had tried to contact the Pilot's but there was no response!! I remember this going on for like 3 or 4 hrs. with frequent and constant updates.
when we heard that they were scrambling Jets to get information from the Learjet, to see what was going on, we still were holding out some hope that whatever the problem was it could be rectified, Then a few more updates and then the inevitable, that the plane might have run out of fuel, and then it crashed, so heartbreaking I remember,
Tarra Sage these heart breaking memories do not go !! 😞
over 20 years? It happened 15 years ago lol
@@bena6575 She's referring to the 1999 learjet accident, not the 2005 helios accident.
@@franrc265 oh ok! my bad
@@franrc265 yes!! Thank-u
It seems ludicrous the two alarms sound the same. One being incredibly vital. And no warning light flashing? Bring back flight engineers.
There is a separate light for cabin altitude (pressurisation). Pilots just didnt look what was causing the alarm. I don't know how it works in the older 737. I often fly 737-800 in xplane11 so i know that in the ng it ismnext to the takeoff config but it is a separate light
Correction, both conditions are incredibly vital. That might be why they shared the same tone.
Other than that, Boeing angers me with their switch to a financial focus from an engineering focus.
I am so impressed!
This channel gives a superb depiction of flight mishaps with awesome graphics and to the point subtitled narrative. Even the sound effects of jet engines and cabin ambient noise add to the detail. But best of all is how they respect the folks that perish during these incidents by avoiding displays of gratuitous scenes of crashes or visuals of destruction. Kudos my friends, you have a new subscriber! 👏👍
Almost impossible to believe how two highly experienced pilots on the Helios flight could miss setting the pressurization system correctly. Sad.
Because their human and simple chased the wrong ghost. These are complicated machines and stressing environments there, Ace.
it is sad that the 2 warnings would be so simular in sound. No pressurization is a BIG deal, its sound should be unmistakeable.
@UCbHNwr8rBzt5WokltcGbYjQ it's start about 10,000ft... And thet talked to rhe engineer at ,18000ft so it where started
@@batsonelectronics Yes, much like the "pull up" alarm, "cabin pressure" should start screaming at them.
This is one of those "layers of Swiss cheese" things (where a hole in each slice aligns with a hole in the others). So many opportunities to prevent the fatal situation were overlooked. Serious maintenance mistake, alarm sound poorly designed, pilots who forgot the alarm sound could mean 2 things, failure to account for all the warning lights, failure to notice the pressurization system was set to manual (during 3 occasions), no one alerting the cockpit that passenger oxygen masks had deployed. Very sad, and hits harder because it was so preventable.
I guess now if I'm on a flight and the oxygen masks deploy and we haven't descended in 10 minutes I'm getting my ass up.
10? Better make it less than 5
No need. Cabin crew are now trained to go up after 80 seconds.
passengers probably could not get through the door with today's security measures
@@ianmoseley9910 no, but without going in to how it works, for obvious reasons, there is a way for the cabin crew to get into the cockpit in such circumstances.
The flight attendants can though
16:57 anyone else feel weirdly bad for the planes, too? this beautiful bird, she did a good job, she didn't deserve to go down this way...
You got to feel for the engineer who asked the captain if ''the pressurization panel is set to AUTO?'' The same engineer who had conducted the pressurization leak check, and left the switch set to manual before flight.
SPACE ODDITY Was it the same?
@@ianmoseley9910 Yes it was the same engineer.
The engineer made a mistake by not resetting the switch, but the crew made 3 mistakes by not noticing 3 times. I wonder if this is actually a separate item on the checklists ?
That dumb ads engineer should be held responsible for all lives lost on flight !!
@@lansilver9217 In no way. The pressurization switch is on several checklists used in every takeoff. On top of that the pilots even managed to misinterprate the altitude warning. The consequences of this crash should be in pilot training, and maybe the inclusion of some autopilot software that automatically descends to fl100 if the pilots show no signs of conciousness for long periods. Even trains have a "I am awake"-button that must be pressed periodically.
The first one has to be a quintuple pilot error.
1. Missing the pressurization in the pre-flight procedure
2. Missing the pressurization in the after-start check
3. Missing the pressurization in the after take-off check
4. Hearing an alarm but instead of reasoning that maybe the alarm is for something else, insisting that it is a takeoff configuration warning even though that warning shouldn't be going off given the circumstance
5. Instead of listening to the engineer's advice, the captain reacts with a meaningless question
This flight could have easily been saved. It's weird that a captain with so much experience fails to do anything.
Exactly
1-3, yes. 4/5 hypoxia affecting him
The last one is not an error you can blame the pilot for. At that point he was already under the effects of O2 deprivation. No matter what the engineer said, his brain would not be able to process that information
All the deaths were (obviously) tragic. But I really felt for the flight attendant who was still conscious and had made his way into the cabin shortly before the plane crashed. Man...that's just....whew...oh boy....😞
Two flight attendants made it at the end
I do ask myself why he waited almost three hours before he tried it (he was able to bring the plane down from 10.000 to less than 3.000 meters). Gut the main question is: Why did none of the cabin crew members tell the pilots immediately what happened (that the oxygen masks fell down in the cabin) so that they could have taken on their masks and bring the plane down before it was too late. The crew must have known that the oxygen justs helds for 12 minutes. They must know what they have to do in such cases. There are still so many questions.
@@luuduonghy659 There were two of them?
So much for checklists! No amount of checklists will work unless pilots actually check through them methodically.
A system of pre-departure cut-outs may work better or in addition to the checklist for the most critical items.
For example, modern cranes over 50 ton capacity often have computerized cut-outs that will disable certain functions unless the safety thresholds are met. Even some of the higher manlifts do likewise. For example, If your boom is fully extended, it will not allow you to travel with the wheels or boom down too far.
Applied to an aircraft, a cutout could disable the plane from taking off until the switches are in the appropriate settings.
More great content. I'm always pleased to see this channel upload, but it always means I'm going to learn of something horrific.
Can y’all not put these kinds of stupid comments like: First, second, third, fourth, etc. That’s not appropriate at all. It just makes you look disrespectful/disgusting to the doomed passengers and crew who died on these two flights. Seriously though, just stop and don’t even think about replying with negative or stupid comments like: Shut up or something like that, ok? >:(
Also, R.I.P. to all the passengers and crew who perished on board these planes. You all will be missed. Prayers go out for the heartbroken/upset families. :(
Your comment is also disrespectful.
Waiting for some knucklehead to write "FIRST TO AGREE! YEAH!"
7033giorgio
Well said and thank you.
Hanro Look, I didn’t mean to be rude if my comment is disrespectful but seriously though, nobody should put inappropriate comments in a sad video for a reason. It’s rude and bad to do these types of things. Just because you can write these types of comments doesn’t mean you should do it in a sad video, especially when it happened in real life so, I’m sorry if I made you feel sad for posting this comment but still I have my reasons why I don’t like these types of comments people post. I hope you understand. Have a nice day. :)
Pockets MacCartney Yeah, me too and it’s annoying!
No offense to anyone who writes these kind of comments. :/
RIP to all those involved this is heartbreaking. Great informative video.
I really appreciate that the channel dedicates the films to the deceased.
Flight Channel: video notification
Me(in middle of a movie): bye movie! Something more interesting just came up!
Lol!
Already a comment in one minute feel like...WOAH
@@jerrycartledge8267 this is my favourite educational channel. The creator? He's really amazing. He puts so much into these vids. I learn a lot every time I tune in.
movies are lame anyways. a waste of time. go outside and do something you only live once.
@@Maplelust have to wait till April. I'm asthmatic. Can't go outside till the weathrer improves.☹
The quality of the videos and reporting of these air disasters is very professional and wonderful. Thank you for showing what the outcome was, too. I will be back to watch again, but the incidents are so heart wrenching that I can't watch that many close together. Sorry, and, thank you.
Astonishing such a thing can happen. But as usual, hindsight makes the difference.
At least is a rather peaceful way to go. Less the one person who made it to the cockpit. Wish he could have nose dived the plan. I wonder if any of us cats would have known what to do?
Respect and prayers for those lost.
Nowadays we wouldn’t be able to get into the cockpit, most likely.
Rest in peace all passengers that died on this flight.
It seems odd that there isn’t better automated systems for this… strange anyway to even have a switch for cabin pressurization that basically amounts to a “flip the switch and die, don’t flip the switch and live” situation. In other words - an unnecessary single point of failure.
Actually, it also baffles me in general that all flight data isn’t transmitted from all aircraft via satellite and monitored on the ground. It wouldn’t take all that much bandwidth to do it - a number of aircraft engine manufacturers already do something like this on all their aircraft engines in service. Imagine if all airports staffed a couple of flight engineers to monitor all aircraft status and immediately advise pilots on alerts and how to beat mitigate issues!
It might sound like overkill to some but all medium and large aircraft used to staff a dedicated flight engineer station on the flight deck and some still do. They don’t have to balance the tasks of flying - they only monitor and adjust the machine itself.
Ah well, typical of industry nowadays - Owned and operated by managers and bean counters doing the absolute minimum or less to comply with regulations, rather than engineers seeking best practices. Often in our world it’s not an issue of problems that can’t be solved, just problems that no one at the top wants to pay to solve...
Wouldn’t say single point of failure as it didn’t “fail” as the cabin altitude warning did go off, there is a warning light to tell you it’s in manual mode and it’s even part of the checklist. That why I’ve long preferred airbus when it comes to cockpit layout. If the cabin altitude is in manual mode (push button) it shows it in ECAM and button lights up
The trouble is each piece of automation brings MORE complexity, an ADDITIONAL point of failure - and one a pilot will then have NO control over
I'm all for flight Engineers though
It wasn't a single point of failure, it was multiple poor choices lead to this failure. The warning sound is point 1 they somehow confused it with a take-off sound? Like they didn't put 2 and 2 together. 2.) the master light comes on they STILL think it's a take-off configuration warning. 3.) the oxygen masks dropped and they didn't realize it. 4.) They over looked the switch FOUR different times. 5.) When the engineer asked if the switch was in auto they ignored him and asked a question in return.
Nearly all newer airplanes have a description attached to the master caution or master warning aural and visual signal of a problem. This makes it easier to diagnose. For both pilots to overlook the pressurization problem is extremely rare. I’m certain there have been numerous similar failures that have been corrected properly.
@@Reaperdeathpunchthe only thing that holds in your argument is 4.
1 and 2 they were confused and they did ask for advice/help.
And im more stuck on why two warning sounds sound that similar
3 they had no way to know that the Oxygens mask came down unless theirs a button that lights up notifying them, however given that that are missing warnings along side not knowing whats going and trying to receive help that would've been missed on unless a flight attendant told them.
4. that argument holds
5. Hypoxia had already kicked in at this point thus the captain unable to get his thoughts together
flying on a Britannia aircraft out of Luton UK some years ago I informed the FA that the door seal next to me was icing up and had a thick build up on the inside of the exit door. I was informed by the uninterested attendant that they all do this! So this door seal causing the accident has really flipped me.
On the bright side, if the FA had cared enough to tell someone perhaps a ground engineer would have tested the cabin pressure and forgot to set the pressurization system back to auto. Then everybody on the next flight would have died. So really your FA was a hero.
What doorseal caused the accident. Watch it again
Simple mistakes that cost the lives of many. So sad
This is by far thee most compelling channel on TH-cam. It’ll scare the living daylights out of you, make you emotional, will you come make your palms sweat make you all nervous and tense, make you cheer with relief. It’s like nothing else.
I mean, How haunting was it in the first one to read “the F-16 pilots observes at 11:50 an unknown person not wearing an oxygen mask enter the cockpit and occupy the captains chair.” Jesus. One passenger was still f#%king conscious. My god.
This channel just blows my mind
Thats gotta be a wrong timestamp..🙄
this is one of the reasons i keep sensor app open during my flights (as a passenger). pressure sensor on phones could save their lives if it was a thing back then.
The pressure may have been within range, just too low oxygen.
you didn't need to put as a passenger. have a little more faith that not everyone is a complete imbecile.
@@Maplelust faith sure didn't help these people. besides, i don't only do it for safety, i do it because i'm curious.
which app do you use?
@@A.R.77 Oxygen levels are fairly the same even at very high altitudes. However the partial pressure of oxygen drops significantly for the human lungs to breath.
The flight attendant, Andreas, on the Helios flight may well have prevented a greater tragedy by diverting the aircraft away from heavily populated areas where it may well have crashed after running out of fuel if it had maintained its programmed holding pattern...
This is almost certainly what happened to MH370, although, with it being over the ocean, there weren't any fighters scrambled to identify the situation...
I hope to see mh130 located in my life time
This did not happen to MH370. To much input from pilots for one.
@@gregoryconnor9333 Exactly. The pilot dumped MH370 intentionally.
Addicted!!✈✈✈ Watching one video right after another. I never realized how much actually goes into flying these huge aircrafts!! The loss of lives is so very sad but the survivors one's are really great to watch! BTW I'm 41 years old and I've been in a helicopter once in my life for like 7 minutes!! I would NEVER do it again, nor fly in an airplane!!
This brings it all back...I was at home online in Jacksonville, when this broke. I saw it online as my brother was a paramedic for JFRD back them. I heard the squaking on my scanners and followed this online, in real time, one of the first times to do this for me. RIP to all.
Americans don't believe in oxygen. To them it's a "conspiracy theory". If it's not on TV it's a conspiracy. This is why pilots never bothered to take seriously that engineer. He thought that engineer does not now a shit. It's TV fault. TV must announce to Americans that oxygen is important and is not a conspiracy theory.
I don't understand how " put on o2 mask" is not the first thing to do from the beginning. If you are above the altitude that O2 is scarce , staying awake and alert should have always been the 1st thing to do. It boggles my mind that this rule had to be changed at all. RIP to those that died. It also seems like work done on an airplane should be automatically given to the next crew, just in case.
the oxygen tanks on a plane like that only hav about 5-10 minutes worth of air, pilots hav may hav more
I love the idea of putting similar crashes together. For example, American Flight 96 and Turkish Flight 981 could also be combined, though the results of the crashes ended up quite different.
That's so sad about Andreas ☹️
I remember in a simulator when I first heard this alarm, I thought how weird it is to have such an important system tied to such an innocent alarm. It was confusing as heell and I only realized after 20k and passed out.
Why didn't they use a different sound? You can set your phone to use a different ringtone for each contact so why reuse sounds for two different functions when confusion can lead to life-or-death situations.
They need to show pictures to American pilots. In MacDonalds they know how to select the right picture. American Pilots need to see picture of a crashed plane and a sexy girl in front of that instead of this sound. Sound is confusing, reading is boring , pictures are fun. Americans know that.
How horrific for the fighter pilots seeing one pilot amd he’s slumped over, and then no movement from the passengers dealing it was essentially a ghost jet full of people. God that’s be such a helpless feeling!!
Dang i had to stop after the first one. i dont want to get too emotional. Thank you though. I like your work.
I am the same age as was Payne Stewart and began playing competitive golf at 7. Offered an assistant pro job in Hawaii after turning 13. I took my first lessons at flying at 16. IFR a few years later. A simple thing of not checking to see that the pressurization switch was in auto position has caused many aircraft crashes due to no oxygen. Very sad that day I heard of this occurring.
It's true what they say, the words on the emergency checklists are often written in blood.
Also questions the value of flight hours. An attentive private pilot who spends (1) hour flying through a thunderstorm, would have gained more experience than a pilot flying (10) hours through clear skies, while on auto-pilot...
I don't know man wouldn't that be a biohazard?
Both comments regarding hours and checklists are spot on.
I was working a vendor booth at the Tour Championship in Houston where Payne Stewart was due to play and I will never forget that day. I wasn't a huge golf fan, but I loved Payne and watched sometimes because of him. The only reason I was excited to be there working was to see Payne in his funky knickers (and - ngl - hopefully get his autograph), but that opportunity would never come. As the news about his plane spread, a few of us gathered in an ambulance that was there to provide EMT services for the tournament and they had a TV where we watched the situation unfold. I knew where the player's parking lot was located and the next day, I walked to Payne's reserved spot to pay my respects and it was overflowing with flowers and tributes to Payne. It was a very moving sight to behold and one that will be etched in my mind forever.
Beautifully, sensitively executed; thank you for this.
Crazy how a single button that was suppose to be set to auto killed two different airliners
Amazing video, really well put together. Informative and thought provoking.
Hey TFC
I've always been freaked out about plane crashes but your videos are very interesting. The amount of hard work and detail you put into every video is amazing. Keep it up fam!
Ugh, when in training to be a Flight Engineer I had pounded into my head that no matter what if on climb out you get cautions you make the pilots level off so you can trouble shoot it.
Yea it's common sense but pilots gotta stick to procedures
How many flight engineer jobs still exist? Seems like no major carrier uses them.
@@33moneyball bout 1200 in the usaf but they are trying to get rid of them. In civil sector mostly just ups and fed ex.
@@Irishhaf why though? Is it to cut down costs?
@@johnsteward8325 Climbing puts a great deal of stress on an airplane, so in an unknown situation you by leveling off you buy time to trouble shoot the problem.
I remember when Payne's plane went down. All of Springfield, and all of the PGA, were in total shock.
I liked the 2 airplane incidents in one video.
These were heartbreaking, all over again. RIP to all who perished in these tragedies.
9:30 Had the ground engineer's question about the switch being set to AUTO come a minute or two earlier the pilot might have been able to change it.
From the crash information online, it looks like Andres P entered the cockpit approx. 2 hours after the pilots passed out. What do you think was the cause of such an lengthy delay to check on the pilots and take action??
sctmcg uno
I'm thinking it occurred to him when the jets were surrounding them that there might be an issue up front.
I think that's because he had to break in the cockpit first. After 9/11 during flights that door can be open only by the crew inside. Or maybe he was incapacitated too and then somehow ne regained consciousness...who knows
The official report ( aaiasb.gr/imagies/stories/documents/11_2006_EN.pdf ) says they found it "quite puzzling" on page 129. It doesn't seem to contain anything more relevant.
According to the Guardian ( www.theguardian.com/business/2006/dec/19/theairlineindustry.travel ), locked doors might have been the cause. Hopefully it's more reliable than some other articles found online which seem to speculate or outright make things up.
I wonder the same thing. As someone else stated, post 9/11 cockpit doors are almost impossible (if not completely impossible) to open from the outside. Even a bullet wouldn’t penetrate that door. I have no idea how he even got in the cockpit in the first place.
Fantastic video as always!! This channel is the best for air disaster videos
So very tragic. Great recreations as always!
Only thing I didn't get is if you are a flight attendant and the oxygen masks fall, first step im taking just before putting my mask on is ringing the cockpit and asking wtf oxygen masks just dropped.
That's 2nd step.....first step is HUFFIN ON A COUPLE OF THOSE MASK THEMSELVES TO CALM THEIR NERVES, GO ON A TOOT TO HAVE THE COURAGE TO GO UP FRONT TO ASK PILOT ...WTF ARE YOU DOI G!!???
I thought the same thing! I’ve seen a few more videos in which there’s something obvious taking place abs it’s affecting the passengers, and the flight attendants don’t bother to check in.
@@JaneDoe-rj4jn That's because they assume the captain and first officer know what's going on. So they don't bother checking.
Yet another excellent vid and yes, I did like the two incident format.
You fail to maintain Pawne Stewart
Also in later, Andreas wasn’t the only one who survive before 737 crash
Haris Charalambous, Andrea girlfriend was also survive. She was seen in the control to help Andrea regain control.
They manage to divert the plane to rural area.
I remember reading, immediately after the Payne Stewart plane crash, that inspectors suspected that the seal on one of the windows broke--not huge, but enough to make a difference. I had also read that a couple of learjets had experienced the same thing before and calls were made to have the windows checked. My heart still aches for the Stewart Family.
I don't know. I keep being told flying is still safer than driving, however, if I'm driving and something happens, at least I'm driving and in control--sort of.
yea i have that same feeling. the fear of being killed by something stupid without having any control is frightening
Given my first and only accident in a car while driving was another car grazing side to mirror because they made a jump into the left turn lane prematurely before I was going to with signal on. There isn't controlling another person's driving thus my mirror bit into their SUV. I frankly would feel less nervous about flying.
Hammable Of Carthage you have to compare it to fatal car crashes because plane crashes are 99% just that
@@VenomCold Much lower rate, but that also means you are a lot more likely to suffer long term from a car crash while alive. A person I know is in a nursing home in his 20s from traumatic brain injury from a car accident. My mom has had dentures since 17 from a car accident in the 1970s. There is no guarantee you will have full quality of life as she hates being in the passenger seat and the other guy is well, a shell of his former self. But that is a philosophical difference as I see no pleasure in a near vegetative state.
@@Eibarwoman better than dying 99,9%
Absolutely terrific shows, Down to detail clinical precision on everything, nice.
Also my question is, what if the flight was going to run out of fuel over a city? What would've been there plan of action to prevent that?
most likely shoot it down before a heavily populated area to prevent more casualties
@@gizzmo952 lol
@@gizzmo952 fucking hell. Imagine having to make that decision...
@@Facebook-StevenSchmidlap you're such an angry little man aren't you? Calm the fuck down already! There's no need for you to be such an asshat in all of your responses
@@gizzmo952 mind the debris, but still better than whole plane
This incident has always intrigued me. Craig David Button (24 November 1964 - 2 April 1997) was a United States Air Force captain who died when he crashed a Fairchild A-10 Thunderbolt II aircraft under mysterious circumstances on 2 April 1997. Button's aircraft zig-zagged near the end of its flight. It was last spotted in the air about 100 miles (160 km) west of Denver. The jet impacted terrain about 15 miles (24 km) SW of Vail, Colorado, on Gold Dust Peak (39°28′44″N 106°35′40″W in a remote part of Eagle County. His jet was armed with four [live] Mark 82 bombs, 60 magnesium flares and 120 metal chaff canisters, and its GAU-8 Avenger gun was loaded with 575 rounds of 30-millimeter ammunition. The four Mark 82 bombs have never been recovered after at least 6 ground searches in the area, with the last being Aug. 2018.
Flight Attendant Andreas had the lungs you'd want to fight Corona
Good point
Andreas had his girlfriend in the flight with him... so imagine tha situation... trying to save a plane with your gf already dead and low on oxygen brake in to the cockpit while the plane its going to ran out of fuel... that s so bad..
I remember reading about the golfer’s learjet when I was in middle school. I remember how eerie the story was of how a ghost jet was flying over the United States with no one having control of it.
Still hope you'd do one of the big ones (PSA Flight 182 from 78 and JAL Flight 123 from 85) in the future. Besides that, great remastered clips of these tragic crashes.
I want him to redo Tenerife collision, but with better intro than season 1
@Luchino Bruttomesso I know. I think he did it like a month or two after my post.
There are actually quite a few different aircraft, both commercial and private, that don't have an overwhelming alarm of depressurization. It is one of the most insidious and serious fails and yet sometimes only a small blinking light on the control panel signals the problem.
This might sound like science fiction, but why, in the 21st century do we NOT have a way to link up with and guide a troubled plane to a lower altitude, if not a landing from the ground? If only to avert a destructive crash let alone potentially save the lives of the people on the planes?
Hypoxia is a scary thing that I am always mindful of at work inside confined spaces. Very sobering video. Very tragic stories.
When learjets actually have to inspect and not intercept. A double whammy of sadness. Thank you for the videos. RIP.
I love the idea of seeing 2 different incidents with a similar cause in the 1 video. I think it provides more understanding of the issue involved, nice work
I saw this episode on May Day and they made an excellent point that I will never forget the next time I jump in my airplane
They said that aircraft can fly virtually on the edge of the atmosphere... It's nearly a spaceship
Here is the point... They said next time you look at your Cabin Pressurization switch, translate that in your head to LIFE SUPPORT
I never looked at that switch the same again
After watching numerous uploads from your channel, i`m amazed at how a lot of pilots seem to be arrogant and think they know everything without checking, or how they miss gauges warning them.
"Put on your own oxygen mask gefore assisting others"
Even passengers get told to do that!
I remember watching the 737 in another flight channel and your video was spot on. I would hope future pilots watch your detailed videos for educational purposes because your videos could save future lives. The one button that didn't get switch is a matter of life and death. On both videos, both pilots took too long to troubleshoot, before the human body passes out.
This accident is well known in the aviation industry..
If you want to make another double-episode, I strongly suggest United 585 and USAir 427
I can still remember were I was when Payne Stewart plane went down. I was listening to it on the radio as I was driving to Philadelphia pa to pick up my kids for a weekend down Cape May New Jersey. Am not a golfer but everyone knew of Payne Stewart he was a great golfer and from what I can tell he seem to be a good person. I hope his wife and kids were able to move on with their lives but always remembering Payne.
Great content ,video suggestion : Uberlingen mid air collision , you would make it great thank you
This Channel is one of my favorites
You'd think someone would've went and told the pilots that the oxygen masks just deployed and asked them wtf are they doing.
this is one of the problems with the current system. When stuff happens in the cabin, the Attendants are trained to assume the Flight Crew knows what's going on and is responding. And, assuming the pilots are busy, flight attendants typically neglect contacting the pilots and possibly 'overwhelming' them.
If the Attendants would have contacted the pilots here, there's a possibility the situation would have been overcome.
In another video, with the engine blow-up over NY, the attendants didn't bother telling the pilots that a window had blown out (as well as a passenger) until the pilot just decided to make an unroutine check on the cabin. This prompted them to descend and slow. Ensuring passengers could breathe.
Even with the Hudson landing, there was zero communication with the cabin/pilots except for one transmission. Never once did the pilots ask the attendants to look out the window and report the status of the engines. In their situation though, it didn't prove necessary, but it still couldn't have hurt.
This 'automatic assumption' that the pilots are aware of exactly what is occurring needs be reviewed. There needs to be mandatory reporting of specific events. Masks deployed, Hull Breech, engine damage, passenger fly-out, etc.
@@maxdecphoenix - Hi, is the engine blow-up you refer to above covered on this channel? I would like to know more.
@@Richard_Straker th-cam.com/video/Ll3HnxBWDwM/w-d-xo.html
They were too busy huffin on one or two of those mask themselves getting totally tooted!!
@orange70383 ya know?! I thought the same