Russian here, love the show. So the obrez is basically a criminals or a partizans gun. The main goal was ease of concealment. The word comes from the verb обрезать [obrezAt] which means to cut in length and funny enough it also means circumcise. They were somewhat popular during the revolution and the civil war.
C&Rsenal and Forgotten Weapons have great in-depth episodes about the Mosin and its development. Poor planning by the Russian imperial government prior to World War I spawned some interesting happenings. That’s how Winchester model 95s chambered in 7.62 x 54R came to be. They had stopped making rifles prior to World War I thinking that they had made enough to satisfy their needs. Then the war started and they realized that they were losing rifles so fast that they were going to run out before they could get their own production going again, so they began desperately searching the world for more rifles. Winchester made those 95s, But Remington and Westinghouse and possibly a third company were contracted to build Mosins for the imperial Russian government. However, there was a little revolution in Russia prior to the delivery of those rifles and they never left the USA. So, there are quite a few Mosins that were manufactured in the US.
Yeah, about half were shipped. Interestingly, many of the Finn M1891s I see are New England Westinghouse. I suspect the majority of those first shipments only made it as far as Helsinki.
Jeez...SOOOO much misinfornation. In 1930, the 3-line rifle (Mosin Nagant as it is known in Russia) was updated. The upper handguard and barrel bands were changed, and sights were updated and graduated in meters. Thus, the Soviet M91/30, M38, M44, and M1891/59 sights are all graduated in meters, while the M1891 Infantry Rifle, Dragoon, Cossack, and M1910 Carbine sights are all graduated in arshins, which equate to about 28.5", or about one Imperial Russian pace. M91/30 receivers were hexagonal until 1935 (Izhevsk) and 1936 (Tula). The following year, they were changed to round receivers. Any M91/30 rifles dated prior to 1932 are referred to as ex-dragoons, as most dragoons were upgraded with the new upper handguards, barrel bands, and sights. You can tell for sure as these have a small gap under the rear sight base, as the new rear sight blocks were slightly longer than the older ones. The Mosin bolt handle is straight to assist with leverage. Many other rifles (Mausers, Arisakas) also had straight bolt handles...nothing to do with hammer usage. The 7.62x54r is also known as the 7.62 Russian, whereas the 7.62x39 is also known as the 7.62 Soviet, reason being that the former was designed and produced during the days of Imperial Russia, while the latter was designed and produced in the era of the Soviet Union. Standard Mosin M91/30 rifles were all zeroed with bayonet attached. Soviet production: M91/30s were made until 1945, with sniper variants made until 1947 or 48. M38 (not 39) carbines were made from 1939-45. M44 carbines were made from 1943-48. The M1891/59 carbine appears to have been a works project to convert M91/30 rifles with worn out or otherwise damaged barrels into carbines. As with the M38, they were not issued with bayonets. They're marked 1891/59 and have the 1100-2000 meter portions of their rear sights ground flat. There were no "scout" versions of the Mosin made by any official arsenals. Regarding barrel length, carbines had 20" barrels, while 91/30 rifles, dragoons, and cossacks had 29.5" barrels and the original M1891 rifles had 31.5" barrels. The Obrez pistols were the result of partisans / revolutionaries during the era prior to and during the revolution, generally Bolshevik muckrakers, since pistols were very hard to obtain at that time. Soviet snipers absolutely used scopes. They started off with the PE and later PEM (modernized) scopes around 1932 and running through about 1939. These scopes were in 4x, but were slow to produce and were prone to fogging and breakage. PU production started in late 1942, and these were 3.5x. They were a better, more resilient design, simplified for mass production. The overwhelming majority of sniper scopes produced were of the PU variety. Soviet snipers used scoped rifles. Finnish M1891 infantry rifles had their rear sight blocks recalibrated to meters. They're marked 200, 300, 400, 550, 700, and 850 meters. Finland was essentially a Russian territory until 1918, although the Finns switched over to the metric system starting in 1861, completing the transition by 1880. When Russia had its October Revolution, Finland took the opportunity to declare its independence. Finland suffered a civil war similar to Russia, except in Finland's case, the Whites were victorious. The Mosins in Finnish armories became property of Finland, and while the Finns produced their own models of Mosins, they never produced receivers. They simply upgraded existing infantry rifles, dragoons, cossacks, and possibly 1910 carbines with new barrels, sights, and stocks. They would later capture Soviet Mosins during the Winter and Continuation wars, usually just marking the captured arms with an [SA] on the barrel and / or receiver (Finnish army property mark). Finland would develop their own models of the Mosin, starting with an upgraded M1891 infantry rifle (new Arctic Birch 2 and 3 piece stocks, upgraded sights) for the army. They would also develop a cavalry carbine known as the M91rv. The Civil Guard (essentially Finnish militia forces) would further refine the M1891 into its M1924 rifle, which had a heavier barrel profile as well as an improved stock and sights. Both the army and civil guard would have their own rifle development programs from 1924 until about 1939. Army rifles were marked [SA], while Civil Guard rifles were marked S.Y and later Sk.Y. Most small arms would eventually be marked [SA] after the Civil Guard was folded into the national army. In 1927, the army developed a "short rifle" known as the M27 with a roughly 27" barrel, 4" shorter than the 1891 infantry rifle, along with a cavalry carbine, the M27rv. The civil guard would follow suit with their M28 in 1928, upgrading it in 1930 with new sights and a new stock. These M28/30s are really great rifles. This is most likely the rifle that renowned sniper Simo Häyhä used so effectively against the invading Soviets during the Winter War, along with an M24 infantry rifle and M31 Suomi submachine gun. Very few if any Finns used telescopic sights, as they were fragile, prone to fogging, and easier to see at distance. In 1939, the Finns took the M28/30, tweaked the barreled action a bit, and dropped it into a heavier pistol grip stock. This became the M39 and was to be the standard rifle for both Army and Civil Guard personnel going forward. These are considered the best of the Mosin family of rifles and were assembled for use by reserve Finnish units as late as 1970. As an aside, you should really slug the bores of any M27, M27rv, M28, M28/30, M28/57, M27/66, or M28/76 you may have. The Finns actually chambered these rifles for 7.62x53r, and the bores are often closer to .3085 or .309. I have an M28/76 that shows signs of excessive pressure (flattened primers, sticky cases) if I fire standard 54r rounds through it, so I handload for it. I have similar issues with an M27. Most of the M39s are a true 54r, but not all, so still worth checking. You can buy 7.62x53r online from Lapua, but they'll run you quite a bit more per round. Besides the Soviet Union and Finland, other countries that fielded Mosins were Czechoslovakia (VZ54 sniper rifle), Hungary (M91/30, M44), Poland (M44), Romania (M91/30, M44), Albania (M91/30), Yugoslavia (M44), and China (T53, a copy of the M44). There's a lot more detail to the Mosin Nagant, aka the 3-Line Rifle. I would encourage you to watch C&Rsenal's video on the Mosin Nagant 1891, as well as Forgotten Weapons videos on some of the more popular Mosin variants. I enjoy your content overall and own several of your scopes. That said, when you discuss the historic military models and cartridges, you really should review what you're planning to present and make sure the information is accurate. A lot of misinformation gets spread this way, and it takes a lot more effort to correct it than it would to make sure that what you're presenting is factual...just my $0.02
arshin The basic unit was the Russian ell, called the arshin, which came into use in the 16th century. It was standardized by Peter the Great in the 18th century to measure exactly twenty-eight English inches (71.12 cm). Thus, 80 vershoks = 20 pyad's = 5 arshins = 140 English inches (355.60 cm).
@walidqaissi9292 the Fins just accurized it. Did some adjustments to the bedding, improved the trigger, and polished the sear were the main changes to improve accuracy. But yeah it can reach out and touch something that far if the shooter is skilled enough, and they get a good example.
@acester86 I m an air rifles fan .. I am getting chines cheap spring air rifles and costimizing furniture and iron sights it becomes very accurate. thanks for improving
The video game comment actually has some truth to it. I played Call of Duty: Finest Hour when I was a little kid. The first gun you get is the Mosin. That gun left an impression, and when I'd play WWII games, I'd always use the Mosin. Now I own a real Mosin and it's one of my favorite guns.
If you want the history on these I highly recommend C&Rsenal. They do videos on different WW1 small arms (which the Mosin served in both WWs) they are starting to branch out to some other cool gun history, no WW2 yet...
It was not an M39 it was an M38 also known as the tanker model: short barrel began production in 1938 with no bayonet. In 1944 the began to put the bayonet on the M38 and called it the M44.
I've had my Mosin for probably 15 years, I got it when you could still find them for $100.. I started upgrading it within the first year with a thorough cleaning and refinished the wood stock, and added a 2X fixed Burris scope on the front sight mount. This year I added the Archangel stock. I'm getting the Timney trigger for it next. I started hand loading 7.62x54r for it, just got my first batch of powder coated cast bullets through it. I used various amounts of powder, including a Hodgkins FFFG substitute and some homemade black powder loads. It really is one of the more fun rifles I've had. I shot 3 times the amount of rounds through it then I did my 7mm-08 yesterday. It can be very accurate. I only have 1- 7 point whitetail under it though.
Canadian Rangers replacement for the Lee-Enfield was a special Tikka rifle in 7.62x51 NATO adopted in 2018. RCMP officially never used the Lee-Enfield but, they did use Winchester model 1894 in 30-30win extensively.
the m44 was actually made at the end of World War II because they were having problems Clearing Houses in Leningrad and Stalingrad with the very long 91/30 and I needed a shorter rifle for urban combat. Shortly after that the SAS came into play.
I had a m44 given to me about a year ago bolt on muzzle brake modified bolt handle traditional floating scope mount w/ yalls own vortex 4-16x44 crossfire2 in a black monte carlo stock and I absolutely love it! Still have the original stock, the best I could find out its a 1955 Romanian variant according to the symbols on the receiver
Incorrect it was meters the Russian unit of measurement you're referring to is arshens which became obsolete in the twenties when Russia decided to quit using it so any gun made with that style of rear sight uses meters the earlier m1891 long rifles did you use rear sights marked in arshens. And on the bolt topic the majority of modern hunting rifles use a 90° throw the thing is the bolt handle is just bent making it seem a lot longer. When you started talking about having to beat the bowl open with a hammer that is due to the weapon being improperly cleaned.
Some of the advantages to the bolt design….almost everywhere in Russia is cold and winter weather. Soldiers needed to be able to work the action with mittens on. The simpler the better!,
I sporterized a pawn shop special . My wife's grandfather had it with the price tag of $120.00. It was given to me after he passed. I put a synthetic monte carlo style stock. Had receiver drilled and tapped for scope mounts. Turned down bolt handle. Took off about 6 inches of barrel and threaded for a brake. This thing shots alot smoother now. I'm hitting about 1 moa at 100 yards. Grandpa "obtained" a shorter model during his time in Korean War. It is untouched in my safe. Qould love to get info on it but I don't know how to proceed. Thank you for such amazing content!!!!
The 30-03 wasn't originally chambered in 30-06. The '03 was chambered in 30-03. Which had a slightly longer case and used a 220 gr roundnose bullet. In '06 they changed to a 150 gr spritzer bullet and shortened case. When this was done, they rechambered the '03 to '06.
Love this podcast! I have a Finnish M39 Mosin VKT 1942 (war era rifle) that is an excellent shooter. Purchased it for $80 and sold it a year later for $100. Found out that a co-worker had purchased it, so I "re-purchased" the same rifle, still in excellent condition. I intend to reload some ammo for it, for hunting purposes.
Arshin is the unit of measurement the guy was trying to remember in the very start of the video. 1 arshin = 71.12 cm (28 in). 400 arshins = 284.48 m (311.111 yd)
I know the video is two years old, but there is some decent info here. Could have been a LOT more info given here since the development history of the round by the Russians (pre-Soviet) and Russian royals were actually helping American manufacturers with much needed contracts. The 7.62x54 is Russia's 30-06. Kinda really disappointed that Vortex wouldn't bring someone on that wasn't a WHOLE LOT more schooled in the history of the Mosins for this length of broadcast. Have had 5, now have 3, a 91/30, a 44 and a Cossack. Had an old friend that, shortly before her death, locked her front door, disappeared into her bedroon and came back in her powerchair with an old rifle. "I got this in trade for one of my (sentry) dogs back in the 60's. It was from a friend of my husband who killed a lot of hogs with it but I don't think it's legal here" she said. I looked and it was a badly sporterized Mosin. Then to my amazement and horror I saw the date stamp and cartouche showed it was a Cossack Mosin that had 10 or so inches cut off the barrel. When I told her it's history, she was mad and told me to get that "Russkie rifle" out of her house. I still have it in my safe. Had it not been butchered, it would probably be worth thousands today...
Man the guy totally mis stated the M39. The Finish M39 is the best mosin ever made and a gun they should have really been mentioned. It was totally accurized by using the Mosin action captured from the Russians by Finland. I have one and it’s amazingly accurate.
The M91/30 rear sight measures in Meters, not Arshin. US Troops who were sent to Russia during the Russian Revolution complained alot about the M1891 rear sight since it does not measure in Meters. The reason for 2,0000 meters on a Mosin M91/30 rear sight is for the concept of Volley Fire. Mosin Nagants to the best of my knowledge were only fielded on the "Eastern Front" during WW2.
We have a bunch of these in our collection and really enjoy restoring, shooting and sporterizing them. Would love to see what others are doing with theirs!
I’d love to see someone rock a mosin in a modern PRS/NRL match. I’d run one in a modified MPA/MDT 700 Long action chassis, and magpul long action 10 rd mags. Throw on a Gen II Razor in a custom scope rail, and neck down the 7.62x54R to 6mm, and rebarrel to a Bartlein heavy Palma contour, and I’d be good to go!
bought my first mosin in 2012 for $125 and so it began... so cool that you invite active listeners onto your podcast. would be cool to make it out to that way one day. just took a deer this year @ 20yards open sights. I will say less blowout damage than the 308 I'm used to but still went down in 40yds.
One extra minute of research and you would learn that in the 91/30 the sites are in meters. It was part of the movement away from the time of the Tsars. Also the movie is “Enemy at the Gates” not enemy in the gate.
Bought my first Mosins with my cousins in Mena AR. for $49.95 and as far as I am concerned that is what they are still worth. Would never consider spending what they are asking for them these days. Kinda like the newly listed Italian Carcano rifles showing in 2020. Would not give $250+ for one of those. The quality is just not there to rationalize their current prices.
Chad and Eric (iv8888) cut a mosin down to a "pistol" and also "modernized" it with a suppressor too. Thing is freaking hilarious. Also, the Finnish M39 is actually a former 91/30 but when the Finns bought them from Russia, they replaced every stock, barrel, sling mounts and sight markings to make the perfect duty weapon for their Soldiers AND Guard. They did tweak the triggers a tiny bit but I honestly cant feel the difference, myself. I absolutely LOVE mine tho! P.S.- 17,000,000 Russian mosins made and the Finns made 103,000 of them. Tika and Sako were the barrel manufacturers. 🤘
I had mine rebarreled. Nobody makes new barrels for them with the old iron sights though. A friend used one on a deer at 80 yds. Left a baseball size hole exiting the neck. I believe he used a 180 grain Winchester super x which I think is just a soft point slug,
old Russian unit of measurement for distance. arshin- The basic unit was the Russian ell, called the arshin, which came into use in the 16th century. It was standardized by Peter the Great in the 18th century to measure exactly twenty-eight English inches (71.12 cm). Thus, 80 vershoks = 20 pyad's = 5 arshins = 140 English inches (355.60 cm).
The main reason why Mosin Nagant's were sold in such numbers on the western market was because the Russian military was replacing the Mosin Nagant's (Bolt rifles from 1900's to 1945) with AK 47's from 70's 80's for their emergency military weapon stockpiles in hardened Bunker Storage. Still Mosin Nagant's are gem's when it comes to WW1 and WW2. P.S you may not be aware that the CZARIST RUSSIA GAVE A CONTRACT TO A US ARMES MANUFACTURER TO PRODUCE MOSIN NAGANT's DURING WW1, BUT WHEN THE CZARIST MONARCHY WAS OVERTHROWNED BY COMMUNISTS THE ARMES CONTRACT WAS VOIDED. THE US GOVERNENT WAS STUCK WITH AROUND over 100.000 MOSIN NAGANT RIFLES. Some of those rifles were issued to US NATIONAL GUARD, TEXAS RANGERS, FOREST PARK RANGERS, US BORDER PATROL AND RUSSIAN WHITE ARMY THAT FOUGHT THE COMMUNIST REDS. I've seen one of these MOSIN NAGANT Rifle's IN A MUSEUM IN TEXAS that were assigned to Texas Rangers with made in the USA engraved on them. GREAT VIDEO.
You should try an M28/30 or M28/76...phenomenal rifles. Only thing is, most have true .308 caliber (as opposed to .311) barrels, so you have to handload for them or spend $2-$3 a round for Lapua 7.62x53r ammo.
Big, heavy, clunky and gorilla proof! I had about 4 Mosins, bought over a period of a year or two at Big 5 Sporting Goods, for $89 each. I gave one away and had to sell 2 for $100 each. All of them were Russian "Dragoon", but I held onto the oddball carbine M91-59. I'm glad I did, it's allegedly one of the more interesting versions and slightly more "rare" than most. I saw one beater at a gun shop in early 2023 with an asking price of $499. *oof!* that hurts
Also originally produced by Remington in the Untied States under contract for the Zsar of Russia. These have hexagon receivers and short front section of the barrel. Many of these receivers were rebelled and refurbished for use in WWII.
Where are you getting your information on the Remingtons and M38 "tankers"? Tank crews carried the PPD40, PPSh41, and PPS43. The M38 was produced from 38 to 45. The M44 was produced concurrently from 43 to 45, continuing production until 48, largely as a replacement for the M91/30. Some Remington and other M91s were cut down and restocked in Czechoslovakia and are known as M91/38s, but they're fairly uncommon. The Finns used M91 receivers from every arsenal including Remington in building their family of rifles, but they didn't cut any down.
While I appreciate that this guy is a Mosin enthusiast, you should probably vet the guests a little more when it comes to talking about significant historical firearms. Some of the facts weren’t exactly factual and his knowledge of the development, models and history was spotty at best. But I love that you guys are starting to go into firearms for the podcast. I think this would have worked better as a 10min on the 7.62x54r and then maybe a 30min episode on the firearm. Hope to see more like this.
You have to wonder if he knew he was blowing smoke or if he'd been fed a load of bull from someone else. Either way, it was painful to hear that much misinformation at one sitting.
Just moving from modern firearms to learning past designs I’m curious what you noted as false, just so I’m not the guy blowing smoke up someone else’s ass
Remington had produced just under eight hundred and fifty thousand guns between 1915 and 1917 with only a little more than one hundred and thirty thousand having reached Russia by January of that year and of the seven hundred seventy thousand guns Westinghouse made, a quarter-million of those had made it to its destination by the time the Tsar’s government was overthrown the next month.
Don't forget that both Remington and New England Westinghouse also made M91 Mosin-Nagants. That the Russian Government didn't want after Lenin came to power. Sold in US for about ten dollars.
Thanks guy great info but I think the rcmp stopped using the 303 a while ago. The Canadian rangers just stopped or could be still using . For ww2 sniper interviews check out black watch snipers on youtube
Bolt on a mosin gets taken down with the bolt itself. You don't need the bayonet for that. You split the bolt by hand in 2 pieces and use the other end to take it apart.
Mosin twist rates are 1:9.5" RH. They seem to really prefer the heavier (174-182 grain) projectiles. The original load was a 210 grain round nose bullet @ 2200 fps from a 31" barrel. The light ball load (148 grain spitzer @ 2800 fps) was developed in 1908 to compete with the German 7.92x57JS load. Interestingly, they kept that fast twist rate.
Just pedantic, but the Russians fought on the Eastern Front, not Western. That's where we (US) fought. And Ryan, the obrez (обрез in Russian) cut-down Mosin was a real thing, but I don't think it was widespread. Here is video evidence of their existence, but it's in Russian so I'm sorry, the info the guy gives won't be much use. Suffice it to say, the "rifle" he's holding is from the Izhevsk arms factory and was made in the 1940s. He shoots small blanks at the end just to prove it can. th-cam.com/video/jFlA_0QtdmM/w-d-xo.html
It's real the obrez, it was done mostly by people in their garage. I don't know for certain the intent though I always imagine its a resistance style weapon. Places under occupation so you needed a concealed weapon. Mostly a gun to get you to a better gun.
There's actually quite a few more variants. Russians had the 91, 91/30, m38, m44 and m59. Finnish also had the M28, M28/30, the M39 and a few more. Not counting Czech sniper versions.
Not terribly rare. They seem to pop up on Gunbroker in waves every so often. I've got 5-6...really cool little carbines and extremely accurate thanks to the heavier barrel profile.
You where close when saying the RCMP just recently replaced their no4 lee enfields for the Tikka T3X, it was the Canadian Rangers. They are the most nothern force presence in Canada, our back door defenses, their uniform is a red hooded sweater and coat. I hope Russia never invades our Arctic with thier growing fleet of ice breakers and subs lol. They won't stand a chance against our impossible to spot Rangers with their Tikka bolt actions!
The Mosin pistol is known as the Obrez. During WW1, Imperial Russia was in severe political turmoil. Communist revolutionaries would take the original M91 Mosin and cut them down into pistols for assassinations.
If you’re looking for the Obrez, at the very least, look up the video Brandon Herrera did on the pistol. From what I understand it’s a custom job. I could be wrong as it’s been a time since I watched it, but I could never do that to my Mosin.
I sold a hex and kept an early Chinese carbine version that looks like crap. I'm not into the Mosin for rifle-ishness. I wanted a boom stick with a working bolt
What made mil-surp cool was the fact that it was so cheap back when the cheapest AR you could get was about $800, with 90% of mil-surp stuff under $200. Keep in mind this was 20 to 30 years ago, so it would be like if the cheapest AR you could get today was $1200 to $1600 and 90% of all mil-surp was under $400 and you could easily find a lot of it under $200. Now the market is complete and total trash. Kids that want a "video game gun" that they know nothing about combined with a dash of political BS, and boomers or scam companies(RTI, Classic Firearms, Ect...) looking to rip them off have killed it completely. If you're a teenager today and you're looking to buy your first rifle with your dad, that's cheap, available, fun, cool, and economical to run for hours at the range, you're gonna buy a $400 AR and a case of 5.56mm. That's part of the reason the AR market exploded, they became super affordable and available. I love old gats more than I can express and I'm sad to see that those 3 elements have destroyed the market. Maybe once the kids quit caring about them because they're too expensive compared to modern arms, and the boomers die, and the companies go out of business, maybe the market will come back slightly, but it'll never be as good as it used to be.
Blitz creed?! WTF is that? I don't know what he's talking about, but bayonets on Russian rifles had nothing to do with blitz krieg if that's what he meant.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The Mosin-Nagant was issued with a bayonet from its inception because that was standard for ALL major military rifles of the time. Bayonet combat was definitely a thing in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and only died out (mostly) when firearms got larger magazines and functioned more reliably (mid 1900s). Also, while the word "blitzkrieg" was first used by a German military periodical in 1935, it was mostly a term used by Western journalists to describe the style of German warfare, and was not used by the German military themselves.
Wow, I can't believe none of them know anything about Mosins. The ignorance is palatable. Why didn't they bring some one on the show that knew something? Model 1891's had sights that measured in Archines. In 1930 the sights were updated to meters. The receivers were extruded in the round. The bolts were lengthened to aid extraction. In 1916 Russia invaded Finland. The Fins took their guns and used them. In 1928 the Fins upgraded the fit of the mosins to make them super accurate. They upgraded the Mosins again in 1939, but didn't make it any more accurate. They gave them better stocks, and .308 barrels.
I made one of my best long range shots with my mosin m44. 1200 yards standard open sights on a 22" x24" steel target. And it only took me 51 rounds from a bench. I did have a spotter and the target was painted safety orange. I stopped shooting after that for the day.
Russian here, love the show. So the obrez is basically a criminals or a partizans gun. The main goal was ease of concealment. The word comes from the verb обрезать [obrezAt] which means to cut in length and funny enough it also means circumcise. They were somewhat popular during the revolution and the civil war.
I’m pretty sure that there are over a dozen versions of the mosin. The m38 was the carbine. The m39 was the Finnish mosin.
I’m almost positive the m44 was a carbine as well fam
@@sparky2721 yes updated version of the 38 in 1944
C&Rsenal and Forgotten Weapons have great in-depth episodes about the Mosin and its development. Poor planning by the Russian imperial government prior to World War I spawned some interesting happenings. That’s how Winchester model 95s chambered in 7.62 x 54R came to be. They had stopped making rifles prior to World War I thinking that they had made enough to satisfy their needs. Then the war started and they realized that they were losing rifles so fast that they were going to run out before they could get their own production going again, so they began desperately searching the world for more rifles. Winchester made those 95s, But Remington and Westinghouse and possibly a third company were contracted to build Mosins for the imperial Russian government. However, there was a little revolution in Russia prior to the delivery of those rifles and they never left the USA. So, there are quite a few Mosins that were manufactured in the US.
I believe some of those US Mosins did end up in Russia, with US Troops supporting the White Russian Army.
Yeah, about half were shipped. Interestingly, many of the Finn M1891s I see are New England Westinghouse. I suspect the majority of those first shipments only made it as far as Helsinki.
$300 is now the bottom of Mosin prices. I just got a 1946 M44. First time to the range and I was hitting a 200 yard steel.
Jeez...SOOOO much misinfornation. In 1930, the 3-line rifle (Mosin Nagant as it is known in Russia) was updated. The upper handguard and barrel bands were changed, and sights were updated and graduated in meters. Thus, the Soviet M91/30, M38, M44, and M1891/59 sights are all graduated in meters, while the M1891 Infantry Rifle, Dragoon, Cossack, and M1910 Carbine sights are all graduated in arshins, which equate to about 28.5", or about one Imperial Russian pace. M91/30 receivers were hexagonal until 1935 (Izhevsk) and 1936 (Tula). The following year, they were changed to round receivers. Any M91/30 rifles dated prior to 1932 are referred to as ex-dragoons, as most dragoons were upgraded with the new upper handguards, barrel bands, and sights. You can tell for sure as these have a small gap under the rear sight base, as the new rear sight blocks were slightly longer than the older ones. The Mosin bolt handle is straight to assist with leverage. Many other rifles (Mausers, Arisakas) also had straight bolt handles...nothing to do with hammer usage.
The 7.62x54r is also known as the 7.62 Russian, whereas the 7.62x39 is also known as the 7.62 Soviet, reason being that the former was designed and produced during the days of Imperial Russia, while the latter was designed and produced in the era of the Soviet Union. Standard Mosin M91/30 rifles were all zeroed with bayonet attached.
Soviet production: M91/30s were made until 1945, with sniper variants made until 1947 or 48. M38 (not 39) carbines were made from 1939-45. M44 carbines were made from 1943-48. The M1891/59 carbine appears to have been a works project to convert M91/30 rifles with worn out or otherwise damaged barrels into carbines. As with the M38, they were not issued with bayonets. They're marked 1891/59 and have the 1100-2000 meter portions of their rear sights ground flat. There were no "scout" versions of the Mosin made by any official arsenals.
Regarding barrel length, carbines had 20" barrels, while 91/30 rifles, dragoons, and cossacks had 29.5" barrels and the original M1891 rifles had 31.5" barrels. The Obrez pistols were the result of partisans / revolutionaries during the era prior to and during the revolution, generally Bolshevik muckrakers, since pistols were very hard to obtain at that time.
Soviet snipers absolutely used scopes. They started off with the PE and later PEM (modernized) scopes around 1932 and running through about 1939. These scopes were in 4x, but were slow to produce and were prone to fogging and breakage. PU production started in late 1942, and these were 3.5x. They were a better, more resilient design, simplified for mass production. The overwhelming majority of sniper scopes produced were of the PU variety. Soviet snipers used scoped rifles.
Finnish M1891 infantry rifles had their rear sight blocks recalibrated to meters. They're marked 200, 300, 400, 550, 700, and 850 meters. Finland was essentially a Russian territory until 1918, although the Finns switched over to the metric system starting in 1861, completing the transition by 1880. When Russia had its October Revolution, Finland took the opportunity to declare its independence. Finland suffered a civil war similar to Russia, except in Finland's case, the Whites were victorious. The Mosins in Finnish armories became property of Finland, and while the Finns produced their own models of Mosins, they never produced receivers. They simply upgraded existing infantry rifles, dragoons, cossacks, and possibly 1910 carbines with new barrels, sights, and stocks. They would later capture Soviet Mosins during the Winter and Continuation wars, usually just marking the captured arms with an [SA] on the barrel and / or receiver (Finnish army property mark).
Finland would develop their own models of the Mosin, starting with an upgraded M1891 infantry rifle (new Arctic Birch 2 and 3 piece stocks, upgraded sights) for the army. They would also develop a cavalry carbine known as the M91rv. The Civil Guard (essentially Finnish militia forces) would further refine the M1891 into its M1924 rifle, which had a heavier barrel profile as well as an improved stock and sights.
Both the army and civil guard would have their own rifle development programs from 1924 until about 1939. Army rifles were marked [SA], while Civil Guard rifles were marked S.Y and later Sk.Y. Most small arms would eventually be marked [SA] after the Civil Guard was folded into the national army.
In 1927, the army developed a "short rifle" known as the M27 with a roughly 27" barrel, 4" shorter than the 1891 infantry rifle, along with a cavalry carbine, the M27rv. The civil guard would follow suit with their M28 in 1928, upgrading it in 1930 with new sights and a new stock. These M28/30s are really great rifles. This is most likely the rifle that renowned sniper Simo Häyhä used so effectively against the invading Soviets during the Winter War, along with an M24 infantry rifle and M31 Suomi submachine gun. Very few if any Finns used telescopic sights, as they were fragile, prone to fogging, and easier to see at distance.
In 1939, the Finns took the M28/30, tweaked the barreled action a bit, and dropped it into a heavier pistol grip stock. This became the M39 and was to be the standard rifle for both Army and Civil Guard personnel going forward. These are considered the best of the Mosin family of rifles and were assembled for use by reserve Finnish units as late as 1970.
As an aside, you should really slug the bores of any M27, M27rv, M28, M28/30, M28/57, M27/66, or M28/76 you may have. The Finns actually chambered these rifles for 7.62x53r, and the bores are often closer to .3085 or .309. I have an M28/76 that shows signs of excessive pressure (flattened primers, sticky cases) if I fire standard 54r rounds through it, so I handload for it. I have similar issues with an M27. Most of the M39s are a true 54r, but not all, so still worth checking. You can buy 7.62x53r online from Lapua, but they'll run you quite a bit more per round.
Besides the Soviet Union and Finland, other countries that fielded Mosins were Czechoslovakia (VZ54 sniper rifle), Hungary (M91/30, M44), Poland (M44), Romania (M91/30, M44), Albania (M91/30), Yugoslavia (M44), and China (T53, a copy of the M44).
There's a lot more detail to the Mosin Nagant, aka the 3-Line Rifle. I would encourage you to watch C&Rsenal's video on the Mosin Nagant 1891, as well as Forgotten Weapons videos on some of the more popular Mosin variants. I enjoy your content overall and own several of your scopes. That said, when you discuss the historic military models and cartridges, you really should review what you're planning to present and make sure the information is accurate. A lot of misinformation gets spread this way, and it takes a lot more effort to correct it than it would to make sure that what you're presenting is factual...just my $0.02
Super glad to have discovered this channel. Great podcasts, seriously
That's Wisconsin quality there. Good efficiency of words and zero bs. Most honest hard working people on the planet
The original mosin had sites measured in Arshin about .71 meter
Thanks for sharing. What a fun hobby!
arshin
The basic unit was the Russian ell, called the arshin, which came into use in the 16th century. It was standardized by Peter the Great in the 18th century to measure exactly twenty-eight English inches (71.12 cm). Thus, 80 vershoks = 20 pyad's = 5 arshins = 140 English inches (355.60 cm).
Guy over at 9 hole reviews shot a Finnish Mosin out to 1k meters with iron sights. They can be incredibly accurate.
russian mosin can do eather, but people of practical accuracy did not want to
@walidqaissi9292 the Fins just accurized it. Did some adjustments to the bedding, improved the trigger, and polished the sear were the main changes to improve accuracy. But yeah it can reach out and touch something that far if the shooter is skilled enough, and they get a good example.
@acester86 I m an air rifles fan .. I am getting chines cheap spring air rifles and costimizing furniture and iron sights it becomes very accurate. thanks for improving
The video game comment actually has some truth to it. I played Call of Duty: Finest Hour when I was a little kid. The first gun you get is the Mosin. That gun left an impression, and when I'd play WWII games, I'd always use the Mosin. Now I own a real Mosin and it's one of my favorite guns.
same here!
If you want the history on these I highly recommend C&Rsenal. They do videos on different WW1 small arms (which the Mosin served in both WWs) they are starting to branch out to some other cool gun history, no WW2 yet...
About the bolts, put on big winter gloves and the straight bolt is much easier to manipulate
It was not an M39 it was an M38 also known as the tanker model: short barrel began production in 1938 with no bayonet. In 1944 the began to put the bayonet on the M38 and called it the M44.
I've had my Mosin for probably 15 years, I got it when you could still find them for $100.. I started upgrading it within the first year with a thorough cleaning and refinished the wood stock, and added a 2X fixed Burris scope on the front sight mount. This year I added the Archangel stock. I'm getting the Timney trigger for it next. I started hand loading 7.62x54r for it, just got my first batch of powder coated cast bullets through it. I used various amounts of powder, including a Hodgkins FFFG substitute and some homemade black powder loads. It really is one of the more fun rifles I've had. I shot 3 times the amount of rounds through it then I did my 7mm-08 yesterday. It can be very accurate. I only have 1- 7 point whitetail under it though.
Canadian Rangers replacement for the Lee-Enfield was a special Tikka rifle in 7.62x51 NATO adopted in 2018. RCMP officially never used the Lee-Enfield but, they did use Winchester model 1894 in 30-30win extensively.
Just found the channel! Eff yea! Looking forward to binge listening at work!
Highly recommend the Mcarbo trigger kit for the Mosin too. Real improvement on the trigger pull
the m44 was actually made at the end of World War II because they were having problems Clearing Houses in Leningrad and Stalingrad with the very long 91/30 and I needed a shorter rifle for urban combat. Shortly after that the SAS came into play.
I had a m44 given to me about a year ago bolt on muzzle brake modified bolt handle traditional floating scope mount w/ yalls own vortex 4-16x44 crossfire2 in a black monte carlo stock and I absolutely love it! Still have the original stock, the best I could find out its a 1955 Romanian variant according to the symbols on the receiver
New subscriber, love the talk on these. I listen to them while doing stuff around the house very good content.
Incorrect it was meters the Russian unit of measurement you're referring to is arshens which became obsolete in the twenties when Russia decided to quit using it so any gun made with that style of rear sight uses meters the earlier m1891 long rifles did you use rear sights marked in arshens. And on the bolt topic the majority of modern hunting rifles use a 90° throw the thing is the bolt handle is just bent making it seem a lot longer. When you started talking about having to beat the bowl open with a hammer that is due to the weapon being improperly cleaned.
Some of the advantages to the bolt design….almost everywhere in Russia is cold and winter weather. Soldiers needed to be able to work the action with mittens on. The simpler the better!,
I sporterized a pawn shop special . My wife's grandfather had it with the price tag of $120.00. It was given to me after he passed. I put a synthetic monte carlo style stock. Had receiver drilled and tapped for scope mounts. Turned down bolt handle. Took off about 6 inches of barrel and threaded for a brake. This thing shots alot smoother now. I'm hitting about 1 moa at 100 yards. Grandpa "obtained" a shorter model during his time in Korean War. It is untouched in my safe. Qould love to get info on it but I don't know how to proceed. Thank you for such amazing content!!!!
Look up mosin markings online, arsneal stamps and distinguishing features should help you figure out the model
Love your guys podcast man all the way thom new Zealand 👍
Great discussion!
Click on video and first thing i hear you discussing is Arshins. Get a thumbs up for that
If there is an episode on the Russian mosin, we’ve GOT to have an episode on the ‘Merican 1903 Springfield chambered in the granddaddy 30-06!
Yes yes, make it so.
The 30-03 wasn't originally chambered in 30-06. The '03 was chambered in 30-03. Which had a slightly longer case and used a 220 gr roundnose bullet. In '06 they changed to a 150 gr spritzer bullet and shortened case. When this was done, they rechambered the '03 to '06.
@leonhart2452 I don't think any 30-03s even exist. If they do your looking at $1,000s, like a untransitioned Schmidt Rubin 1896.
M44 carbine is my favorite!
Love this podcast! I have a Finnish M39 Mosin VKT 1942 (war era rifle) that is an excellent shooter. Purchased it for $80 and sold it a year later for $100. Found out that a co-worker had purchased it, so I "re-purchased" the same rifle, still in excellent condition. I intend to reload some ammo for it, for hunting purposes.
About 700 bones now for a M39.
Great podcast and conversation! 😃👍🏻
Best mosin video on TH-cam
I have an M-44 Mosin carbine I've named Uncle Dimitry after the character in Lord of War.
I paid $75 for mine back in the day. Imagine my surprise when i went looking for another few months ago and they were $400+. Eesh
Arshin is the unit of measurement the guy was trying to remember in the very start of the video.
1 arshin = 71.12 cm (28 in). 400 arshins = 284.48 m (311.111 yd)
Mosin rear sight is in Arshin. 1 Arshin = 2.333 feet. 1000 setting on the sight is 1000 Arshin = 2333 feet = 777.5 yards
I know the video is two years old, but there is some decent info here. Could have been a LOT more info given here since the development history of the round by the Russians (pre-Soviet) and Russian royals were actually helping American manufacturers with much needed contracts. The 7.62x54 is Russia's 30-06. Kinda really disappointed that Vortex wouldn't bring someone on that wasn't a WHOLE LOT more schooled in the history of the Mosins for this length of broadcast. Have had 5, now have 3, a 91/30, a 44 and a Cossack. Had an old friend that, shortly before her death, locked her front door, disappeared into her bedroon and came back in her powerchair with an old rifle. "I got this in trade for one of my (sentry) dogs back in the 60's. It was from a friend of my husband who killed a lot of hogs with it but I don't think it's legal here" she said. I looked and it was a badly sporterized Mosin. Then to my amazement and horror I saw the date stamp and cartouche showed it was a Cossack Mosin that had 10 or so inches cut off the barrel. When I told her it's history, she was mad and told me to get that "Russkie rifle" out of her house. I still have it in my safe. Had it not been butchered, it would probably be worth thousands today...
Man the guy totally mis stated the M39. The Finish M39 is the best mosin ever made and a gun they should have really been mentioned. It was totally accurized by using the Mosin action captured from the Russians by Finland. I have one and it’s amazingly accurate.
I like the M28/30 better.
Did this rifle save a life? Thats a beautiful way to say it! The glass is half full!
Y’all should do an episode on the Lee enfields. Great episode!
The M91/30 rear sight measures in Meters, not Arshin. US Troops who were sent to Russia during the Russian Revolution complained alot about the M1891 rear sight since it does not measure in Meters. The reason for 2,0000 meters on a Mosin M91/30 rear sight is for the concept of Volley Fire. Mosin Nagants to the best of my knowledge were only fielded on the "Eastern Front" during WW2.
We have a bunch of these in our collection and really enjoy restoring, shooting and sporterizing them. Would love to see what others are doing with theirs!
I’d love to see someone rock a mosin in a modern PRS/NRL match. I’d run one in a modified MPA/MDT 700 Long action chassis, and magpul long action 10 rd mags. Throw on a Gen II Razor in a custom scope rail, and neck down the 7.62x54R to 6mm, and rebarrel to a Bartlein heavy Palma contour, and I’d be good to go!
😳😳😳🙄🙄🙄
How would you modify the bolt face for a 6mm case head?...or would you just neck the 54r brass down to 6mm?
bought my first mosin in 2012 for $125 and so it began... so cool that you invite active listeners onto your podcast. would be cool to make it out to that way one day. just took a deer this year @ 20yards open sights. I will say less blowout damage than the 308 I'm used to but still went down in 40yds.
What bullet did you use?
@Dale Myers some cheep tula
One extra minute of research and you would learn that in the 91/30 the sites are in meters. It was part of the movement away from the time of the Tsars. Also the movie is “Enemy at the Gates” not enemy in the gate.
Bought my first Mosins with my cousins in Mena AR. for $49.95 and as far as I am concerned that is what they are still worth. Would never consider spending what they are asking for them these days.
Kinda like the newly listed Italian Carcano rifles showing in 2020. Would not give $250+ for one of those. The quality is just not there to rationalize their current prices.
Chad and Eric (iv8888) cut a mosin down to a "pistol" and also "modernized" it with a suppressor too. Thing is freaking hilarious. Also, the Finnish M39 is actually a former 91/30 but when the Finns bought them from Russia, they replaced every stock, barrel, sling mounts and sight markings to make the perfect duty weapon for their Soldiers AND Guard. They did tweak the triggers a tiny bit but I honestly cant feel the difference, myself. I absolutely LOVE mine tho!
P.S.- 17,000,000 Russian mosins made and the Finns made 103,000 of them. Tika and Sako were the barrel manufacturers. 🤘
I had mine rebarreled. Nobody makes new barrels for them with the old iron sights though. A friend used one on a deer at 80 yds. Left a baseball size hole exiting the neck. I believe he used a 180 grain Winchester super x which I think is just a soft point slug,
thank you for the info
ryan was thinking about the japanese gun that has the cover. arisaka type 38
old Russian unit of measurement for distance.
arshin-
The basic unit was the Russian ell, called the arshin, which came into use in the 16th century. It was standardized by Peter the Great in the 18th century to measure exactly twenty-eight English inches (71.12 cm). Thus, 80 vershoks = 20 pyad's = 5 arshins = 140 English inches (355.60 cm).
The main reason why Mosin Nagant's were sold in such numbers on the western market was because the Russian military was replacing the Mosin Nagant's (Bolt rifles from 1900's to 1945) with AK 47's from 70's 80's for their emergency military weapon stockpiles in hardened Bunker Storage. Still Mosin Nagant's are gem's when it comes to WW1 and WW2. P.S you may not be aware that the CZARIST RUSSIA GAVE A CONTRACT TO A US ARMES MANUFACTURER TO PRODUCE MOSIN NAGANT's DURING WW1, BUT WHEN THE CZARIST MONARCHY WAS OVERTHROWNED BY COMMUNISTS THE ARMES CONTRACT WAS VOIDED. THE US GOVERNENT WAS STUCK WITH AROUND over 100.000 MOSIN NAGANT RIFLES. Some of those rifles were issued to US NATIONAL GUARD, TEXAS RANGERS, FOREST PARK RANGERS, US BORDER PATROL AND RUSSIAN WHITE ARMY THAT FOUGHT THE COMMUNIST REDS. I've seen one of these MOSIN NAGANT Rifle's IN A MUSEUM IN TEXAS that were assigned to Texas Rangers with made in the USA engraved on them. GREAT VIDEO.
I enjoy the pieces I have. They're becoming expensive, but are quality firearms
91/30 round receiver, vs the hex receiver. A shortened barrel, different bayonet, Type 1 to Type 2.
There is a safety lol pull cocking peice back and turn to left.
M39 Finnish is the best of the Mosin by far !!!!!!
@@carolinausedmachinery Wow fantastic price !!!
You should try an M28/30 or M28/76...phenomenal rifles. Only thing is, most have true .308 caliber (as opposed to .311) barrels, so you have to handload for them or spend $2-$3 a round for Lapua 7.62x53r ammo.
I'm now waiting on a lee Enfield episode. Please!!!!!!
Big, heavy, clunky and gorilla proof!
I had about 4 Mosins, bought over a period of a year or two at Big 5 Sporting Goods, for $89 each.
I gave one away and had to sell 2 for $100 each. All of them were Russian "Dragoon", but I held onto the oddball carbine M91-59. I'm glad I did, it's allegedly one of the more interesting versions and slightly more "rare" than most.
I saw one beater at a gun shop in early 2023 with an asking price of $499.
*oof!*
that hurts
Also originally produced by Remington in the Untied States under contract for the Zsar of Russia. These have hexagon receivers and short front section of the barrel. Many of these receivers were rebelled and refurbished for use in WWII.
Where are you getting your information on the Remingtons and M38 "tankers"? Tank crews carried the PPD40, PPSh41, and PPS43. The M38 was produced from 38 to 45. The M44 was produced concurrently from 43 to 45, continuing production until 48, largely as a replacement for the M91/30.
Some Remington and other M91s were cut down and restocked in Czechoslovakia and are known as M91/38s, but they're fairly uncommon. The Finns used M91 receivers from every arsenal including Remington in building their family of rifles, but they didn't cut any down.
While I appreciate that this guy is a Mosin enthusiast, you should probably vet the guests a little more when it comes to talking about significant historical firearms. Some of the facts weren’t exactly factual and his knowledge of the development, models and history was spotty at best. But I love that you guys are starting to go into firearms for the podcast. I think this would have worked better as a 10min on the 7.62x54r and then maybe a 30min episode on the firearm. Hope to see more like this.
You have to wonder if he knew he was blowing smoke or if he'd been fed a load of bull from someone else. Either way, it was painful to hear that much misinformation at one sitting.
Just moving from modern firearms to learning past designs I’m curious what you noted as false, just so I’m not the guy blowing smoke up someone else’s ass
Remington had produced just under eight hundred and fifty thousand guns between 1915 and 1917 with only a little more than one hundred and thirty thousand having reached Russia by January of that year and of the seven hundred seventy thousand guns Westinghouse made, a quarter-million of those had made it to its destination by the time the Tsar’s government was overthrown the next month.
On 91/30, m-38, and m-44's the sights are in meters!
I got 3 incinch group of 3 with open sight at 100 yards using mosin nagant
Don't forget that both Remington and New England Westinghouse also made M91 Mosin-Nagants. That the Russian Government didn't want after Lenin came to power. Sold in US for about ten dollars.
Thanks guy great info but I think the rcmp stopped using the 303 a while ago. The Canadian rangers just stopped or could be still using . For ww2 sniper interviews check out black watch snipers on youtube
Love this podcast. I have a 1917.
Bolt on a mosin gets taken down with the bolt itself. You don't need the bayonet for that. You split the bolt by hand in 2 pieces and use the other end to take it apart.
Loved the episode. Glad to see another member of the milsurp gun collectors family.
What is the twist rate in most mosin's
Mosin twist rates are 1:9.5" RH. They seem to really prefer the heavier (174-182 grain) projectiles. The original load was a 210 grain round nose bullet @ 2200 fps from a 31" barrel. The light ball load (148 grain spitzer @ 2800 fps) was developed in 1908 to compete with the German 7.92x57JS load. Interestingly, they kept that fast twist rate.
An Arshin is 28 inches. 2000 Arshins is 1555.55 yards or 1421.77 meters.
Just pedantic, but the Russians fought on the Eastern Front, not Western. That's where we (US) fought. And Ryan, the obrez (обрез in Russian) cut-down Mosin was a real thing, but I don't think it was widespread. Here is video evidence of their existence, but it's in Russian so I'm sorry, the info the guy gives won't be much use. Suffice it to say, the "rifle" he's holding is from the Izhevsk arms factory and was made in the 1940s. He shoots small blanks at the end just to prove it can. th-cam.com/video/jFlA_0QtdmM/w-d-xo.html
The Orbitz pistols are a real thing. They were not made in the factory though, they were field made.
I got my Mosin for $100 when they first came around about ten or so years ago. Russian Tula 1940. I only wish I had bought more great gun.
It's real the obrez, it was done mostly by people in their garage. I don't know for certain the intent though I always imagine its a resistance style weapon. Places under occupation so you needed a concealed weapon. Mostly a gun to get you to a better gun.
There's actually quite a few more variants. Russians had the 91, 91/30, m38, m44 and m59. Finnish also had the M28, M28/30, the M39 and a few more. Not counting Czech sniper versions.
There’s also the Chinese Type 53
I think the max is 2000 yards if not more but the 2000 yards is with iron I believe
M91/59 is very rare Mosin .
Have one myself. All matching numbers
@@ryanstahl6547 I also have all matching and love it
Not terribly rare. They seem to pop up on Gunbroker in waves every so often. I've got 5-6...really cool little carbines and extremely accurate thanks to the heavier barrel profile.
You where close when saying the RCMP just recently replaced their no4 lee enfields for the Tikka T3X, it was the Canadian Rangers. They are the most nothern force presence in Canada, our back door defenses, their uniform is a red hooded sweater and coat. I hope Russia never invades our Arctic with thier growing fleet of ice breakers and subs lol. They won't stand a chance against our impossible to spot Rangers with their Tikka bolt actions!
The only defense infantry had against artillery was to volley fire at to those multi thousand meter ranges.
If I remember correctly that scope was pretty expensive back in the day
The unit of measure is the "ARSHIN" 1 Arshin is equal to 28 paces in Russian!
The Mosin pistol is known as the Obrez. During WW1, Imperial Russia was in severe political turmoil. Communist revolutionaries would take the original M91 Mosin and cut them down into pistols for assassinations.
Great show boys, but there is no way that single rifle took 4k+ lives in WW2.
If you’re looking for the Obrez, at the very least, look up the video Brandon Herrera did on the pistol. From what I understand it’s a custom job. I could be wrong as it’s been a time since I watched it, but I could never do that to my Mosin.
Yep...never produced by any arsenals.
I've got a 1942 version, wouldn't sell it for any reason...
Me too. A M91/59
The sight goes that far for platoon volley fire.
Remington also made mosin nagant for Russia
I want new production mosins. Receivers with built in scope mounting
If your looking for a couple obrezs look up “gunchucks”
I sold a hex and kept an early Chinese carbine version that looks like crap. I'm not into the Mosin for rifle-ishness. I wanted a boom stick with a working bolt
Compare this with the 303 Britt
What made mil-surp cool was the fact that it was so cheap back when the cheapest AR you could get was about $800, with 90% of mil-surp stuff under $200. Keep in mind this was 20 to 30 years ago, so it would be like if the cheapest AR you could get today was $1200 to $1600 and 90% of all mil-surp was under $400 and you could easily find a lot of it under $200. Now the market is complete and total trash. Kids that want a "video game gun" that they know nothing about combined with a dash of political BS, and boomers or scam companies(RTI, Classic Firearms, Ect...) looking to rip them off have killed it completely. If you're a teenager today and you're looking to buy your first rifle with your dad, that's cheap, available, fun, cool, and economical to run for hours at the range, you're gonna buy a $400 AR and a case of 5.56mm. That's part of the reason the AR market exploded, they became super affordable and available. I love old gats more than I can express and I'm sad to see that those 3 elements have destroyed the market. Maybe once the kids quit caring about them because they're too expensive compared to modern arms, and the boomers die, and the companies go out of business, maybe the market will come back slightly, but it'll never be as good as it used to be.
Arshins is the measurement
They were designed to always be with a bayonet attached. They did not even Make a scabbard for the bayonet.
35 dollars in early 90s. 303 brit 35 dollars box of hunting rounds 35 dollars for mosin in 1990,s 25 dollars for 303
Blitz creed?! WTF is that? I don't know what he's talking about, but bayonets on Russian rifles had nothing to do with blitz krieg if that's what he meant.
Yeah, I was thinking the same thing. The Mosin-Nagant was issued with a bayonet from its inception because that was standard for ALL major military rifles of the time. Bayonet combat was definitely a thing in the late 1800s and early 1900s, and only died out (mostly) when firearms got larger magazines and functioned more reliably (mid 1900s). Also, while the word "blitzkrieg" was first used by a German military periodical in 1935, it was mostly a term used by Western journalists to describe the style of German warfare, and was not used by the German military themselves.
Mosin m91/30s dights are in meters. mosin original m91 mosins are in arshins a form of imperial Russian measurement
I wish I was into this stuff when you could get a mosin for 80 buks. Paying more than a new ar15 is just a little bit hard to justify 😢
“I had to take a hammer to it” okay sure buddy. 👍
uses the same bullet diameter as the 303 british
The smell of Ballistol on my weapons… hmmmmm
I have a 44 and 91 and my 44 shoots 7.65x51 (.308 but rimmed ) and it will not chamber a 7.65x54
Wow, I can't believe none of them know anything about Mosins. The ignorance is palatable. Why didn't they bring some one on the show that knew something? Model 1891's had sights that measured in Archines. In 1930 the sights were updated to meters. The receivers were extruded in the round. The bolts were lengthened to aid extraction. In 1916 Russia invaded Finland. The Fins took their guns and used them. In 1928 the Fins upgraded the fit of the mosins to make them super accurate. They upgraded the Mosins again in 1939, but didn't make it any more accurate. They gave them better stocks, and .308 barrels.
I made one of my best long range shots with my mosin m44. 1200 yards standard open sights on a 22" x24" steel target. And it only took me 51 rounds from a bench. I did have a spotter and the target was painted safety orange. I stopped shooting after that for the day.