Wow. First time I’ve heard an rv dealer talk the truth about the quality or lack of quality with a particular brand. Almost every rv dealer I’ve shopped recently pushes junk on you. I’m now going to ROA’s website. Thank you
They'll talk truth now that they've dropped them, but will still spew BS about any brand they do carry. Any RV made after 2019 is highly suspect of being garbage. And that doesn't even cover the legal crap crap they do to strip a buyer of any rights to address a bad product.
@@jamesperkins5468 Agreed. Truth? Sounds like ROA is just trying to save face, with a hint of background litigation. What would cause you to make a video like this? I own a 2019 HQ19. I am completely happy with it. It tows beautifully, it's very comfortable, it's great off-road, built like a tank, and has no more issues than any of the other brands. Most issues associated with Black Series are industry wide, some are dealer issues, and some are from operator naivety or error. Covid did not help anyone. I am no fan of China either, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a bad product, it's more to do with trade inequality. Am I to believe that every other brand they sell has no association with China? This video seems like a cop out, ROA was completely in on Black Series and just bailed on them, will they do the same thing with any of the newer brands they are pushing? They'll never drop Roamer until they do. He thinks Air Streams are perfect? Enough said.
THANKS SO MUCH! I was almost buying a 19 here in Colorado. The front and side diamond plate felt like it was 3D printed. A cabinet in the bathroom had a door broken, washer cabinet was broken. everything felt poorly made. Since they were on sale for 50% off MSRP it was tempting but we passed. THANKS! Really appreciate that you'll still support those who had already gotten one. U ROCK!
According to Harvard Business Review, historically, 70 - 90% of mergers and acquisitions fail. It is how once great companies/products die. Usually a smaller company pioneers something great and builds (or taps into) a market for it, then a larger company runs it to the ground because they really did not understand the unique market positioning of the product and/or (many times both) try to squeeze more profit (partly to pay back the acquisition quickly) and ruin the products quality and unique features. Some do survive and go on to thrive, but the odds are against it.
Hi mate, I got a black series here in Australia back in 2015 and had nothing but issues with it from straight from the showroom floor. The after sales service was infuriating as I was blatantly lied too about parts being in the mail (so I could fix the first issue myself) and then I was avoided like the plague. No returned calls or emails and every time I called the warranty representative was "busy" or "not in at that moment". I ended up having a couple of issues with the trailer that could have been deadly and when i approached the company about these failures they wanted nothing to do with me. By 2018 the camper had literally fallen apart and unroadworthy. I couldnt even sell the thing so off to the scrap yard it went. The fact this company was still operating blew me away with all the fair trading claims and law suits I read about on the black series Facebook pages. Probably a very good choice to drop them mate. They were nothing but a bunch of money grabbing grubs.
I know a feller who works at a local RV dealer's arts and service department. He said they're all pieces of crap, so justt pick the one you like the best. I think that little pearl of wisdom perfectly sums up the RV industry.
Hey Shane! I have to say that my 2021 HQ19 that I bought from ROA has been a real cherry. 44,000 miles in 2 1/2 years. Lots of gnarly off roading. Finally replaced the stock flexible solar panels and batteries. Refer has worked perfectly. Stairs still good. No problems with the stabilizers and none of the wheel studs have sheared off (that would be a deal breaker for me to have a wheel pass me on the road…). If that happened to a car or truck, the NHTSA would be issuing a recall notice! Thanks for keeping us ROAmers in the family despite you moving on from carrying BS trailers.
Hi Shane, I congratulate you on your honesty, on your integrity and on your loyalty to your customers and viewers alike. It takes a lot of courage especially in today's world to admit to admit mistake(s) whether conscious or not. Telling the truth pays off in the end. It shows your sense of responsibility to your supporters and "is just about doing the right thing" (i.e. you are setting the example for people to follow). May Peace be with you, Ciao, L (Veteran)
We were seriously going to buy a Black Series after looking at one in 2017 or 2018. The quality of the one we looked at in 2021 combined with the price hikes completely eliminated them from consideration unfortunately.
recently gone 100% remote worker, so I've been shopping for my first off-road trailer and your videos have been helpful and also fun to watch. really appreciate what you guys are doing even if I don't buy a trailer from you. (I'm in AZ) Was looking at black series because they're cheaper, though I suspected the quality was probably bad. thanks for being honest.
Which RV did you end up going with I am soon going full remote and off- grid. Looking for a really good toy hauler that will be a great new home for me and my motorcycle.
@@blaqgatodroner2269 had to put it on hold for awhile because i'm trying to get rid of some things first. but I'm likely getting the pause reboot edition and modifying it.
Love your videos and was a little ticked that you dropped BS since your videos were partly the reason why I got one. I would love to hear the real reason they were dropped such as not fulfilling their warranty commitments, poor service and training, etc. As far as quality they are still well above any rv made in the USA especially airstream. If you think there is a safety issue you owe it to your audience to discuss those issues especially if it can save lives. That’s my rant.
I’ve had to drop boat lines and it’s always a difficult decision when you’ve invested in a brand. Things do change and the customer is the most important responsibility. Glad you made the change. Over
This scam company; no integrity nor ethics whatsoever. I met Jack Qui, Jackass will be more appropriate, the president black series about a year ago and talked about the product and since I was somewhat interested in a camper we worked a deal where I was going to help them move / deliver some of the campers from CA through out the USA. We helped them moved many campers on 2023 and had to stopped due to lack of payment. Blackseries still owe TXL Group ( a third party logistic company) over $30k. We are in the process to sue Blackseries and willing to expose their deceptive business practices. I will definitely be extremely cautious when dealing with this dishonest company. Grace and Jack are scammers and I hope this prevents others from having to go through issues. If there are more companies in same situation I invite them to expose this scam companies
I hate this kind of company in China, so i support you to make your rights and get the money back, and these kind of bad seller won't ever enter into the foreign market.
Airstream just plain suck these days. They get all excited about duel batteries and a solar panels barely big enough to power a watch. Whilst distracting you from the appalling thermodynamics and dubious build quality.
ALL RV manufactures produce garbage.. it’s a issue of which is the least garbage of the lot… was it made in Meth Monday, tranquilizer Tuesday, Whiskey Wednesday, Thirsty Thursday or Fentanyl Friday ??
I have fetishized Airstreams for years but have noticed a lot of complaints when I was researching them. I think in this case it's a scaling issue, where there are gowing pains. Where Airstream just got greedy and was trying to cut costs and jack up profits.
Thanks for the transperancy. A big dealer in CA refused to sell the last one they had to me as they deemed it unsafe. Seems like they are being dropped across the board by multiple reputable dealers.
I noticed the quality shift by the 3rd year and that was when we turned our back on black series. We talked to a dealer in boise and he said the made some major changes to the quality but I don’t trust this product any longer.
So what brand makes a smallish 4-season camper in 2024 with an inside kitchen and moderate off road suspension?? Thank you for this vid! So refreshing an a great brand builder for you! Trust is king!!
I totally respect the dealership who will come out and say that’s their products they’re getting from outside source suck and won’t sell them anymore and don’t recommend them.👍👍
Nicely put Shane. We are still happy with the 2021 HQ19 we bought from ROA. Yes, there were quality issues, i'd say 'cosmetic', but I was always able to fix them. So far, no safety issues. I am concerned about the wheel studs issue though - but so far, we are still happy and use our HQ19 whenever we can.
Yes. Just make sure they are torqued to the right spec every trip and you should be fine. They only have issues if they are too tight or too loose. 😀 Always happy to hear that from our ROAMERS! Hopefully we see you at the Rally in September! 😀
I just appreciate the honesty and a high-level explanation. I would much rather work with a dealer that is only willing to sell products that meet a certain quality standard.
Hey Shane, remember me, Jan Sugalski. I bought my HD17 from you in the summer of 2019 (I think?) and I am happy with it. The installation of the skylight was sloppy as well as the stability of the table, but overall the quality seems good. I think I bought mine before the quality went downhill and the prices went way up. My main gripe has always been that no actual manual was provided, no structural diagram was provided so the owner could make modifications and no electrical diagram was provided for tracing problems. Hopefully you now fixed these things. I like your philosophy of marketing in terms of passing the business to your grand children, but by that time I expect to see parking meters at all the parking spots in the national parks. Good luck with the business.
Of course Jan! I am happy you got a good one. Yes, Black Series would never share wiring diagrams with us. Made it much harder to work on the trailers. 😀 Thank you!
Shane, Thanks much for the transparency regarding the Black Series. I too have seen these in person and at first glance was impressed. The USA is making far better coaches now.
RV’s are a light box sitting on top of a light frame! 😆 Pulling them down the road and through the mountains with all the twists and tweeks they go through takes its toll on all of them. I tighten all the nuts, bolts and screws I can reach on my RV’s yearly. It’s constant maintenance for any RV if you want them to perform properly. Obviously this brand has major issues.
Who needs Black Series built by communist China when there's Ember RV anyway any more? Black Series has reached out to us and I'd much rather support fellow Americans rather than some products from a communist regime. Kudos to you for standing up for what's right for the customer in the long run. This is an example of a dealership doing right by the customer.
This was the video I was looking for, not shocked to find. Looking at a trailer purchase and noticed at few dealers nearby discounting the Black Series by 50%. If it was the trailer described then it shouldn’t be selling for that cheap.
Hi Shane, I like your video and your presentation about the cooperation issue with Black series, quality issue will always come when a company system changes, you know, there are many company in China they build it by family members, but some of them is not professional, or even lack of experience, so quality control is equal to the quality management, they cannot manage it well, so it will out of control, also the big reason is how their boss control the quality and stuff that he's using, if a big boss take this thing not serious, that's not worth to cooperate with this kind of company, I see airstram works perfect and a half century business that they're running, that's why their product quality stable and they customer like them and support them.
I bought mine from you and honestly only had a couple minor issues. solar panels, batteries and light switches. The alignment is off but that should get easily remedied. I don’t feel bad for buying it, and in fact feel good that i made to trip to buy from ROA. particularly due to the way you support the customer. I appreciate al you’ve done Hollywood 🤣
So I also happen to be a business owner and a dealer. I am a dealer in a large metropolitan area for medical equipment. Things like lasers and x-ray machines. My point is as a dealer we take on risks associated with vendors and manufacturers, etc. At the end of the day you have every right to protect your business and your dealership when things start going wrong. These things happen. I think the way you were explaining it is perfect and your customers will understand. In the last 25 years of doing business, there have been several manufacturers that I’ve had to steer away from even after heavily pushing their product For years, for one reason or another over time. I would have to steer away for one reason or another. At the end of the day, if you’re taking care of your customer, that’s really all that matters. If you’re operating in good faith, that’s all that matters because at the end of the day your reputation is all you have. It’s perfectly fine to push a product that you believe in. But once that business transaction no longer make sense i.e., Manufacturer support, poor quality, control, etc. you have to protect yourself and your customers.
Thanks so much for this comment. It is spot on. It feels nice to know that you are not alone in experiencing something like this. We put all our eggs in their basket and when things turned we had our hardest year in business. Lot’s of people were upset saying we misled them when we felt misled. It would have been easy to keep selling but long term we felt it was wrong.
@@ROAOffRoad I couldn’t agree with you more and I understand how you feel. At the end of the day all you can do is be honest and explain to your customers. You were not misleading your customers because at that time the product makes sense. Your customers should understand and be reassured that you have their best interest and you’re not going to support the product when the manufacturer starts going downhill. I hope that makes sense.
I have been following RoA since you first started carrying Black Series, fell in love with the 19...started saving up as it were, then covid hit...decimated my bank account due to lost hours and bills still needed to be paid...so i waited, got to know RoA better, Honesty and Integrity in my opinion IS RoA....and this is the only reason why I will make my purchase through you...and I have had a few years to look into other dealers both here in canada and the U.S. Even though I am still not yhere quite ues, ( getting there) I jave reached out and emailed and texted to a couple of the staff at RoA and I can say that RoA is the only company that will go above and beyond to answer a stranger's questions without hesitation....that is integrity
..those that sit and bash this company without even dealing with them in my opinion should just keep their proverbial mouths shut..( nothing good to say then say nothing ) my grandma used to say..k..rant over...just tired of the bashing without knowing all the details...
That’s how you’re supposed to do business. I run a medical dealership and that’s exactly how I run my business. I take phone calls from new customers all the time. I offer free, technical phone support to people that I’ve never even spoke to. That’s how I build my customer base, by being honest and taking care of the customer.
49,890 is MSRP for a 2024. Loaded.. RoA over priced things like 30 grand.. they love them when they took them out on the trails,, no issues couldn't say anything bad about them, then they deleted all the videos of the way they loved em.. stop lying..
Would be helpful to mention potential hazards others have seen in terms of wires being routed through junctiom boxes without sheathing and chaffing until they arced out and almost caught on fire.
Here in Australia the hybrid caravan (trailer) market is growing strong… chassis and body is manufactured in China with fitout done locally. We are aware of the quality issues with suspension and components used on the electrical 12v systems. Knowing these issues, I’ve still gone ahead and paid a deposit on a new hybrid caravan. Purchased from a local company who seem to have a good service team, and provide a five year warranty. There are full 100% Aussie built units available, but are usually double the price of the Chinese ones.
We have been able to read between the lines, glad you filled in the blanks. You are a very positive guy and you try not to come against other manufacturers. I think you were successful in your goal here. Thank you.
I have one of the earlier models. Actually came from you guys. I’m happy with mine. But a lot of people with newer ones hate them. I think they had serious growing pains.
Hi, Thank You for this video It has really opened my eyes to the truth. I just inherited a 2020 Black Series HQ15 from my brother who passed in July 2023. He would spend months at a time off the grid in the wilderness with his black series. But after he bought it he was driving it to utah where he purchased it often for issues that kept coming up. I would like to know if i should keep it or sell it? Are there any unforseen issues i should look out for? Thank You
Some used models have users that have already worked out many of the issues that come up. Your model is probably old enough that it didn't have many of the issues we started running into. Did he purchase it from ROA? We made sure every unit went out safe and good
@@ROAOffRoad I think he did. I would love to chat with you through email or phone if you are open to that, then I could give you info about his camper. I am trying to figure out if I should keep it or sell it.
It was a toss up between this camper and Airstream. Decided on the latter. But glad to hear when they first came out they were solid trailers. Hopefully thos who purchased then are enjoying them. For ME I've been totally trouble free with my trailer knock on wood. Be safe and enjoy.
Never seen a ROA video before, this is my first, and i will say the level of transparency and honesty is something ive rarely seen across RV Dealers in my short span on this earth, You will go far with this level of humility, Youve earned a sub and a potential customer, keep it up!
A few years ago I seriously considered buying a Black Series from ROA. Quality issues aside, they clearly weren’t designed for the colder climates of much of North America. ROA offered some great mods at the time, but in end, I had to pass. We eventually found a great deal on an Airstream, but these have issues as well. I love the current offerings from ROA. Hopefully when we’re in the market again, we’ll come in and buy something.
@@hfk1001 We’ve had our Airstream for a little over two years now. For the most part it has been a good experience. But recently we noticed a few “soft spots” on our floor. From my brother in law’s experience, I know that this is the floor rotting, likely from water intrusion. In my opinion, this is the Achilles heal of Airstreams. So many potential points of failure as far as leaks go. The fact that an undetected leak can have such a costly result is maddening to me. My understanding is that as of 2022, Airstream stopped using plywood as the subfloor and is now using some sort of composite material. This would make a leak issue like mine not nearly as costly to repair.
I bought an HQ12, the very first one ROA sold, and beyond quality issues it had some major design flaws. Driving it home from the ROA, it swayed so badly I couldn't go over 45, I was white knuckled and full of regret. I spent thousands trying to resolve the sway, trying all kinds of different products. The final solution was to remove the dual spare tire rack and mount one tire under the front of the trailer to move weight forward, problem solved, but how did they ship something with such a fundamental and dangerous design flaw? In addition it leaked when it was brand new. ROA was helpful in helping me address the problems, and once it was dialed in it was a pretty fun trailer. Ultimately it was just too heavy to comfortably tow with my midsize truck, and the articulating hitch was a huge hassle. I sold it and it soured me to RVs. I'm back to tent camping and couldn't be happier.
Multiple people have had entire wheel/brake/hub assemblies separate from these trailers while on the road, the suspension systems were designed by a guy with no engineering education whatsoever, the guy who started Black Series went to school for business and economics and one day just decided he would start designing hard core off road trailers.
I have a 2022 HQ19, your hinting at safety issues is nonsense. Either tell everything or say nothing. I suspect that you have found out that selling 500 Black Series per year to a few way overpriced models you currently offer has to hurt the bottom line. Plus, you were charging people thousands of dollars for upgrades etc. I am sorry, but the only thing this "rant" has done has helped me to decide that ROA is not for me. What few "workmanship issues" I have discovered are related entirely to California and not the China portion of assembly. You were honest about one comment, and that is that "they all have issues". Even if it were perfect, drag it on the highways for a few thousand miles and see what you have. Let alone taking anything off-road, that will expose the weaknesses much quicker. I know people who have owned some of the brands you currently sell, be careful because they are not all you claim them to be either. I even had one person tell me that if I give ROA $5,000.00 that I can "be a roamer too". Really? Your that special? At the end of the day margin and volume both count. You can tell everyone that selling RV's isn't important to you. I say "BS".
I have looked at RV's that are 2 to 3 times more expensive than what I paid that are junk... Even if the perfect RV exists, drag it over the highways, roads, and off-road and it won't be perfect for long. I agree that they are not without issues, but since I have resolved those issues myself, it has been solid, very solid.
I think your too offended to be logical. I was in retail sales for years and one thing I learned is manufacturers will come in with great ideas, award winning, head turning products, great warranties and manufacturing outstanding quality control and the product goes off the shelf like a hot new music album. Then suddenly, everything changes and you're left wondering what happened? Typically what happens is the cost overrun of quality gives way to trying to increase profit. This results in cutting costs by lowering quality control standards, substituting cheaper parts, all to speed up production to insure more product for less cost. The outcome: more failures, more down time, more returns and warranty claims and ultimately less customer service. I believe ROA 100% and have no doubt about the situation.
@@troyezell5841Actually, I am not offended at all. I too have worked in sales, service, and manufacturing and understand things to a level way deeper than "sales" - no offense intended. I have a very good understanding of production costs, warranty costs and the rest of expenses involved in manufacturing. I don't claim that Black Series is the perfect camper, such a camper as mentioned more than once has yet to be built. My statement is if there is truly a "safety issue" that ROA is aware of, they should feel obligated to make people aware of it. I personally know Black Series owners who have purchased from ROA, they haven't been notified either. So, if it is a real issue, why would you not at least tell your customers about it to keep them safe? I feel that ROA has great intentions and are trying to do as many things as possible differently from other RV Sales locations but back to your statement about bottom line. This 500 unit per year loss in sales volume has hurt their bottom line. This of course doesn't include the massive profits they made on upgrades they sold. The other brands they have moved to, specifically the Forest River - Palomino Pause give me great reasons for concern. I see the potential for a very real very large safety issue that no one wants to discuss. This is a great example of what will happen when sales volume doesn't meet the expected levels which will create the exact thing that you mentioned, reduce the cost of manufacturing. Face it, 8% plus interest, a very soft economy, and people struggling to survive will certainly dampen the ability to move $138K products built by the consistent top 5 worst RV manufacturing companies in the USA. Yeah, I know "Pause is a complete different division given additional latitude to build something that is different. Time will tell the story about that too. At the end of the day, if you are satisfied with whatever you have and actually use it, that's terrific!
Being in Canada we don’t have many off-road bigger trailers to pick from. I’ve seen Black series, Opus and that’s about it. Hopefully the Palomino Pause comes here, and the imperial outdoors.
While I didn’t buy a HQ21 from you. I did travel to your store in late 2020. But no one ever informed us that you were having issues with quality or that you were looking at severing ties. Also interesting that you waiting until 2023 to explain why you dissolved your relationship.
Old school. Respect for this Man . Some people love to buy something to pass to they generations. Like me with my very unique and well maintained 1994 dutchman fifth wheel. Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
Yeah, there’s this thing happening in the world and it’s build something and then charge an outrageous price for it to the point where you could build three of these from the profit of one it’s always about the money. They didn’t care about the quality it’s garbage and stay away from it. My friend had one and it was nothing but problems, and he made sure he didn’t sell it to anybody he knew!
Black Series definitely have their issues, but they are also priced (generally) 30k less than the next comparable trailers. Compare a HQ19 to a Dweller 19. You get what you pay for. That being said, kudos to ROA for sticking to their guns, but unfortunately by doing so they are excluding a large portion of consumers the opportunity to join in their awesome culture. Hopefully Black Series can sort out their manufacturing and quality control standards in the future. If they can do that there's a huge market for their trailers in that price range!
Glad you cut ties with them. I noticed their quality dropped as well over the years. I wonder what other Australian trailers are actually made in China as well?
The trailer is not made in China, the chassis is and so are the Australian ones. I am beating mine hard offroad and nothing has gone wrong at all. Good luck finding a chassis made here without spending over 100k, lippert chassis are Chinese as well and they build a bunch. Quality didnt drop, others just surpassed them and available materials got worse. I am saying this because I have one and compared it to other brands, same garbage on everything but functional.
Same here in the US, besides the ugly welds on the black series i have beat it hard and it does hold up well. Your guys designed the original, Jack took it here to the states.
So I can only offer my personal view. I used ROA videos a lot for initial decision on Black Series purchase but found my 2021 HQ19 on east coast delivered in Oct of 2020 at $60k USD MSRP which for quality and capability was a FAR better deal than airstreams and the “off road camper” type did not have as many options as now. I have and still am living in my full time on my land in TN and I build a barndo. My main failures or issues that drove me to upgrade/replace have all been with 3rd party parts other than annoyance issues like delaminating things due to humidity. Failure of dometic fridge to keep cool, failure of dometic ac to not freeze up, some minor replaceable parts in the dometic water heater. Failure of the gel batteries to hold a charge. For the dometic parts those were in last 8 months so for living full time, I feel I got the normal consumer use out of a cheap throw in brand. The batteries are purchased by dealers not black series though issue of what caused the batteries to fail may have been cheap solar charger and inverter or wrong settings and happened early on. But replacement of rest of electrical was an upgrade decision with new lithium batteries not because they failed. So IMO yes quality went down from what I got from the postings I have seen once COVID went into full swing which impacted every brand and demand was still climbing. It’s the nature of the beast. It still goes back to anyone should have awareness and min skills to inspect and check out whatever they are purchasing. Would I buy one again? Yes if I checked it out and it’s in same shape as my current one and at same MSRP with some markup for inflation. But I would not for the extra 30k that was being added for shipping costs last year.
I'm glad that you are satisfied with your purchase. That's all that really matters in the end. However, I don't believe that a $60k unit should have anything cheap or throw-away used by the manufacturer. As buyers, we have been conditioned by the RV industry to accept their high prices and subpar quality for years. If you bought a comparably priced car/truck and had the same 'issues', you would be irate and rightfully so. I don't own a BS unit but do have a 28' Grand Design Imagine. The quality for my unit has been okay but several upgrades have been made to give better usage and reliability.
@@brucejones1867 I agree just I think that is an entire industry problem not just black series based on my purchases. The only thing that failed far quickly than it should was my agm batteries which the dealers purchase and install when delivered not black series so I can’t hold them accountable
Well. As a long term camper. I can definitely see the quality issues. Over the years the manufacturers have cheapened their quality for profits. My last purchase was a 2014. It's had a few issues but nothing major until just the last couple of years. Roof leak around the dumbest thing. The antenna. Now we're having delam issues. May be time to look into something else or rebuild. Which I like to do
i watched many videos from ROA and i was sold on Black series, only to come across a forum post on a really bad Experience someone had had. I started researching on my own only to find out these are Chinese made blank trailers, which is fine, but they are shipped in and modified by black series. It's the reason they only have 30 gallons of water, their frames are universal and they can only use certain size tanks. I started looking elsewhere and ended up with Northwest manufacturing, they make Arctic Fox, Outdoors RV and Nash. All are exceptionally high-quality trailers but do not have the cool factor of a black series. I've had my outdoors RV 23 DBS since January 2022. It is literally unbelievable how overbuilt my trailer is!
OMG! This video was about 3 weeks too late. I remember seeing Black Series on other videos and your videos, so when I saw them at the Flagstaff, Overland Expo, I was all over it. My wife and I purchased a MARS-13. She had to have a toilet & shower. Anyway, I was wondering why they were all Asian. I'm a blue collar tradesman and really hate buying China made products! I don't mind buying any other countries products imported from that country. I kept thinking as we walked around the trailer for pick up, this didn't look as well built as I thought it would be. When I got home I went to set the support legs and sure enough, 1 didn't work. I filed my warranty claim. Let's see how this goes. I really wish I had seen your video a month early. Keep up the great work. I knew it was too good to be true. 😡🤬🤦♂
If you are doing an explanation video? Please do so! Stop telling us how much you don’t want to talk about it. Come on big boy just spit it out or say nothing. If you are standing on something? Then stand up and stand on it. That’s all I want to say so I don’t hurt anyone’s feelings. Feelings are the first consideration lol. See what I mean? Wishy washy is not confidence inspiring salespeople.
We just finished camping in West Yellowstone, MT, and saw ~5 Black Series campers in the wild! They must be popular. When we saw their trailers at a dealer last year, we weren't impressed with the finishings. We went with Ember (which, as a company, has had its own issues) instead and have been happy overall.
Once you see these selling at the big rv lots you know it’s a piece 😂 I wish all rv dealers had this type of integrity when they know a brand is building poor quality trailers.
You don't have to apologize for protecting your customers from bad craftsmanship. Lots of brands suffer quality issues over time, especially when trying to be competitive by using cheap materials. Anyone who can't understand this is a customer you wouldn't want at any price. Thanks for the explanation though... it means alot.
Sorry to hear about the Black series products quality issues. We are fairly new to RV life. We have Off-Roaded and tent camped for years. We have a Intec Sol Horizon Rover trailer. We know it is not a true HD off-road package, however it seems fairly well constructed and we will use it as a base camp and then go wheeling in our 4Runner. What do you think of this type of trailer and do you have anything similar without a lot of additional cost. I appreciate your integrity and we may get something more serious in the future.
I’ve heard so many horror stories about quite expensive trailers failing almost immediately on the road, and a lot of them just being such cheap quality it’s crazy.
Looks like there's a huge market for off-road capable expedition type trailers. Weird no one in the US has bothered. Australia has the off-road vehicle upgrade market perfected.
I saw one of these in Vermont last July . I felt so bad for the family that shelled out over 60 grand for it . I mean it was a real joke just an average camper with some bolt on crap accessories. I love the rock bars that have stickers on them that say no step . They are useless thin pipes 😂
Hey. Great video. Thanks for being honest. Would like to come over from Denver to see you guys and what you have.some day. Thanks from bills cool projects on youtube.
I own a Black Series HQ15 2020 the good years; from being part of a FB owners group its clear the lack of quality control has lead to many different issues for different years and even within the same years. (electrical issues, suspension issue, rating and alignment, as well as improperly install laminate during a large run of them., Warranty been good and bad depending who still working there (and maybe you can say that about many manufactures idk)). So maybe odd one good after 2020/21 but many aren’t. If you’re not into dong your own upgrades and repairs don’t go there. There are many who done mods to their BS and once over that hump are very happy. And maybe i speak for those who cant or wont reach for the price of the new TOP DOGS. I guess too we’ll see what coms next from BS if the new BAJA will be all that and rumoured to be priced lower… I understand BS is selling them cheat cause there’s too many sitting around, these days wouldn’t surprise me that they are on their way out. They had the playing field and now sadly they don’t in my opinion. I’m happy with my HQ15 I been full time RV in it for almost 4 years; I’ve done ton of mods to help suit Canada weather. I know of two BS that caught fire (one with real sad outcome) hard to say on one of the incidents what ultimately caused it to go up in smoke. If you own one I highly recommend the OWNERS FB group…. Id like addd i have channel you can see my opinion of BS there as well. I also agree that the problems have stemmed from final assembly in California.
I am so glad I haven't bought one. I did drove to Orlando and look at a 19 series. I noticed the oven looked cheap. Had Sharpe corners. It looked like bent angles with no roll over for strength and gaps between the metals. Right off the bat I thought this isn't good the quality control looked shabby and cheap.
I built my own trailer because the trailer market is just way inflated. If anything I might shift my business to building trailers because I’m tired of seeing people get milked by big business. There is a huge market for well built low cost trailers.
Not exactly what I wanted to hear I had been waiting along time for this. But understandable. Some day I will hopefully meet you in person to have this conversation. The web is not the place. Until then (Thank You)
I still got one earlier today. There are definitely some issues in quality. But they seem more like things I can fix. I’d be curious to hear about the safety issues he mentioned. I got a video on my channel on the one I just picked up 2023.
Something that I don't feel was touched on by in the video is, whilst Black Series had falling quality issues, other brands were consistently improving. The marketplace has changed most dramatically in the past few years, technology, ideology, and warranty. ROA seems to understand the nature of good business, meaning, look after your customers, and they come back time and time again. You cannot do that if you don't have faith in what you sell. Similarly, Black Series still provides a tremendous product, much better than many mainstream US rv's. But much-much better, reliable, easier to use trailers are available. Plus, you can go American made, South African, Canadian, or Australian, and know that it is the best manufactured product of the moment. For the record too, I loved the little HQ12 when if first released. There was nothing like it. Today, it feels old fashioned.
Well, that makes sense. Same thing with my personal experience on a whole different type of products. The original product was great. It was produced by a German company. The production got shipped to China. The product became complete garbage. This happens so often, and the scary thing is. In my business, this can be life threatening.
Everyone in Australia always new they weren't built here and they were not anyone's favourite. No wonder they went to the US. There is a reason why the Australian top full offroad trailers & campers are twice the price of a Black Series, the Aussie trailers go the distance in the tough conditions. Buyer beware. I feel sorry for the buyers who bought the Black Series. Check out Aussie brands like ZoneRV, Kedron, AOR (Australian Off Road), Bushtracker, Mountain Trail and watch their TH-cams and take note of the build. We see a lot of Aussie component designs like Cruisemaster airbags suspension and composite slowly making it into USA design and build. Look after your local manufacturers and they'll come up with the goods. The above mentioned Aussie brands have been around for a long time because they don't build junk and quality and tech is industry leading.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Wow. First time I’ve heard an rv dealer talk the truth about the quality or lack of quality with a particular brand. Almost every rv dealer I’ve shopped recently pushes junk on you. I’m now going to ROA’s website. Thank you
They'll talk truth now that they've dropped them, but will still spew BS about any brand they do carry.
Any RV made after 2019 is highly suspect of being garbage. And that doesn't even cover the legal crap crap they do to strip a buyer of any rights to address a bad product.
@@jamesperkins5468 Agreed.
Truth? Sounds like ROA is just trying to save face, with a hint of background litigation. What would cause you to make a video like this? I own a 2019 HQ19. I am completely happy with it. It tows beautifully, it's very comfortable, it's great off-road, built like a tank, and has no more issues than any of the other brands. Most issues associated with Black Series are industry wide, some are dealer issues, and some are from operator naivety or error. Covid did not help anyone. I am no fan of China either, but it doesn't necessarily mean it will be a bad product, it's more to do with trade inequality. Am I to believe that every other brand they sell has no association with China? This video seems like a cop out, ROA was completely in on Black Series and just bailed on them, will they do the same thing with any of the newer brands they are pushing? They'll never drop Roamer until they do. He thinks Air Streams are perfect?
Enough said.
It takes a man to talk like this. I have great respect for you and your company. Greetings from South Africa.
THANKS SO MUCH! I was almost buying a 19 here in Colorado. The front and side diamond plate felt like it was 3D printed. A cabinet in the bathroom had a door broken, washer cabinet was broken. everything felt poorly made. Since they were on sale for 50% off MSRP it was tempting but we passed. THANKS! Really appreciate that you'll still support those who had already gotten one. U ROCK!
By once cry once. Sometimes you really do get what you pay for.
According to Harvard Business Review, historically, 70 - 90% of mergers and acquisitions fail. It is how once great companies/products die. Usually a smaller company pioneers something great and builds (or taps into) a market for it, then a larger company runs it to the ground because they really did not understand the unique market positioning of the product and/or (many times both) try to squeeze more profit (partly to pay back the acquisition quickly) and ruin the products quality and unique features. Some do survive and go on to thrive, but the odds are against it.
Hi mate, I got a black series here in Australia back in 2015 and had nothing but issues with it from straight from the showroom floor. The after sales service was infuriating as I was blatantly lied too about parts being in the mail (so I could fix the first issue myself) and then I was avoided like the plague. No returned calls or emails and every time I called the warranty representative was "busy" or "not in at that moment". I ended up having a couple of issues with the trailer that could have been deadly and when i approached the company about these failures they wanted nothing to do with me. By 2018 the camper had literally fallen apart and unroadworthy. I couldnt even sell the thing so off to the scrap yard it went. The fact this company was still operating blew me away with all the fair trading claims and law suits I read about on the black series Facebook pages. Probably a very good choice to drop them mate. They were nothing but a bunch of money grabbing grubs.
I know a feller who works at a local RV dealer's arts and service department. He said they're all pieces of crap, so justt pick the one you like the best. I think that little pearl of wisdom perfectly sums up the RV industry.
Hey Shane! I have to say that my 2021 HQ19 that I bought from ROA has been a real cherry. 44,000 miles in 2 1/2 years. Lots of gnarly off roading. Finally replaced the stock flexible solar panels and batteries. Refer has worked perfectly. Stairs still good. No problems with the stabilizers and none of the wheel studs have sheared off (that would be a deal breaker for me to have a wheel pass me on the road…). If that happened to a car or truck, the NHTSA would be issuing a recall notice! Thanks for keeping us ROAmers in the family despite you moving on from carrying BS trailers.
Hi Shane, I congratulate you on your honesty, on your integrity and on your loyalty to your customers and viewers alike. It takes a lot of courage especially in today's world to admit to admit mistake(s) whether conscious or not. Telling the truth pays off in the end. It shows your sense of responsibility to your supporters and "is just about doing the right thing" (i.e. you are setting the example for people to follow). May Peace be with you, Ciao, L (Veteran)
We were seriously going to buy a Black Series after looking at one in 2017 or 2018. The quality of the one we looked at in 2021 combined with the price hikes completely eliminated them from consideration unfortunately.
I appreciate the honesty. I had been on the fence for a future purchase and my suspicions have been confirmed.
recently gone 100% remote worker, so I've been shopping for my first off-road trailer and your videos have been helpful and also fun to watch. really appreciate what you guys are doing even if I don't buy a trailer from you. (I'm in AZ) Was looking at black series because they're cheaper, though I suspected the quality was probably bad. thanks for being honest.
My friend look for something made around 2018-2020, when rv makers started to cash in on covid they sent out countless cases of trash build quality.
Which RV did you end up going with I am soon going full remote and off- grid. Looking for a really good toy hauler that will be a great new home for me and my motorcycle.
@@blaqgatodroner2269 had to put it on hold for awhile because i'm trying to get rid of some things first. but I'm likely getting the pause reboot edition and modifying it.
Love your videos and was a little ticked that you dropped BS since your videos were partly the reason why I got one. I would love to hear the real reason they were dropped such as not fulfilling their warranty commitments, poor service and training, etc. As far as quality they are still well above any rv made in the USA especially airstream. If you think there is a safety issue you owe it to your audience to discuss those issues especially if it can save lives. That’s my rant.
I’ve had to drop boat lines and it’s always a difficult decision when you’ve invested in a brand. Things do change and the customer is the most important responsibility. Glad you made the change.
Over
This scam company; no integrity nor ethics whatsoever. I met Jack Qui, Jackass will be more appropriate, the president black series about a year ago and talked about the product and since I was somewhat interested in a camper we worked a deal where I was going to help them move / deliver some of the campers from CA through out the USA. We helped them moved many campers on 2023 and had to stopped due to lack of payment. Blackseries still owe TXL Group ( a third party logistic company) over $30k. We are in the process to sue Blackseries and willing to expose their deceptive business practices. I will definitely be extremely cautious when dealing with this dishonest company. Grace and Jack are scammers and I hope this prevents others from having to go through issues.
If there are more companies in same situation I invite them to expose this scam companies
I hate this kind of company in China, so i support you to make your rights and get the money back, and these kind of bad seller won't ever enter into the foreign market.
Airstream quality control is no longer what it once was either...
Airstream just plain suck these days. They get all excited about duel batteries and a solar panels barely big enough to power a watch. Whilst distracting you from the appalling thermodynamics and dubious build quality.
ALL RV manufactures produce garbage.. it’s a issue of which is the least garbage of the lot… was it made in Meth Monday, tranquilizer Tuesday, Whiskey Wednesday, Thirsty Thursday or Fentanyl Friday ??
I have fetishized Airstreams for years but have noticed a lot of complaints when I was researching them. I think in this case it's a scaling issue, where there are gowing pains. Where Airstream just got greedy and was trying to cut costs and jack up profits.
This is good to know. I’ve been trying to help my mom camper shop and the airstreams are gorgeous, but always have to play devils advocate.
NEWS ALERT. "NOTHING" IS!!
Thanks for the transperancy. A big dealer in CA refused to sell the last one they had to me as they deemed it unsafe. Seems like they are being dropped across the board by multiple reputable dealers.
Yes
Good on them, nice display of ethics
I noticed the quality shift by the 3rd year and that was when we turned our back on black series. We talked to a dealer in boise and he said the made some major changes to the quality but I don’t trust this product any longer.
Glad to hear the honesty and integrity form you. ROA consistently shows you truly care about your roamers.
So what brand makes a smallish 4-season camper in 2024 with an inside kitchen and moderate off road suspension?? Thank you for this vid! So refreshing an a great brand builder for you! Trust is king!!
I totally respect the dealership who will come out and say that’s their products they’re getting from outside source suck and won’t sell them anymore and don’t recommend them.👍👍
Nicely put Shane. We are still happy with the 2021 HQ19 we bought from ROA. Yes, there were quality issues, i'd say 'cosmetic', but I was always able to fix them. So far, no safety issues. I am concerned about the wheel studs issue though - but so far, we are still happy and use our HQ19 whenever we can.
Yes. Just make sure they are torqued to the right spec every trip and you should be fine. They only have issues if they are too tight or too loose. 😀 Always happy to hear that from our ROAMERS! Hopefully we see you at the Rally in September! 😀
Hey Shane! I’m about to purchase a 2021 HQ17. What should I torque the lug nuts to?
@@richrdr1000dees nuts tight or goodandtighten!! But seriously, don’t buy it.
I just appreciate the honesty and a high-level explanation. I would much rather work with a dealer that is only willing to sell products that meet a certain quality standard.
Thanks for the straight talk. I was considering one until I saw your Romer and Pause.
Hey Shane, remember me, Jan Sugalski. I bought my HD17 from you in the summer of 2019 (I think?) and I am happy with it. The installation of the skylight was sloppy as well as the stability of the table, but overall the quality seems good. I think I bought mine before the quality went downhill and the prices went way up. My main gripe has always been that no actual manual was provided, no structural diagram was provided so the owner could make modifications and no electrical diagram was provided for tracing problems. Hopefully you now fixed these things. I like your philosophy of marketing in terms of passing the business to your grand children, but by that time I expect to see parking meters at all the parking spots in the national parks. Good luck with the business.
Of course Jan! I am happy you got a good one. Yes, Black Series would never share wiring diagrams with us. Made it much harder to work on the trailers. 😀 Thank you!
I heard many complaints about the quality of Air Streams also.
Shane, Thanks much for the transparency regarding the Black Series. I too have seen these in person and at first glance was impressed. The USA is making far better coaches now.
Well said Shane!
Much respect for being honest and upholding your integrity!
RV’s are a light box sitting on top of a light frame! 😆 Pulling them down the road and through the mountains with all the twists and tweeks they go through takes its toll on all of them. I tighten all the nuts, bolts and screws I can reach on my RV’s yearly. It’s constant maintenance for any RV if you want them to perform properly. Obviously this brand has major issues.
I recall watching a TH-camr talking about Australian trailer “manufacturers” merely assembling trailer kits that were actually made in China.
Who needs Black Series built by communist China when there's Ember RV anyway any more? Black Series has reached out to us and I'd much rather support fellow Americans rather than some products from a communist regime.
Kudos to you for standing up for what's right for the customer in the long run. This is an example of a dealership doing right by the customer.
This was the video I was looking for, not shocked to find. Looking at a trailer purchase and noticed at few dealers nearby discounting the Black Series by 50%. If it was the trailer described then it shouldn’t be selling for that cheap.
Hi Shane, I like your video and your presentation about the cooperation issue with Black series, quality issue will always come when a company system changes, you know, there are many company in China they build it by family members, but some of them is not professional, or even lack of experience, so quality control is equal to the quality management, they cannot manage it well, so it will out of control, also the big reason is how their boss control the quality and stuff that he's using, if a big boss take this thing not serious, that's not worth to cooperate with this kind of company, I see airstram works perfect and a half century business that they're running, that's why their product quality stable and they customer like them and support them.
I bought mine from you and honestly only had a couple minor issues. solar panels, batteries and light switches. The alignment is off but that should get easily remedied. I don’t feel bad for buying it, and in fact feel good that i made to trip to buy from ROA. particularly due to the way you support the customer. I appreciate al you’ve done Hollywood 🤣
Wondering what you did to solve your battery and light switch problem? I am having the same issues with zero support. Thank you
Wish I could help, zero support at least from the manufacturer seems to be the theme.
So I also happen to be a business owner and a dealer. I am a dealer in a large metropolitan area for medical equipment. Things like lasers and x-ray machines.
My point is as a dealer we take on risks associated with vendors and manufacturers, etc. At the end of the day you have every right to protect your business and your dealership when things start going wrong. These things happen. I think the way you were explaining it is perfect and your customers will understand.
In the last 25 years of doing business, there have been several manufacturers that I’ve had to steer away from even after heavily pushing their product For years, for one reason or another over time. I would have to steer away for one reason or another.
At the end of the day, if you’re taking care of your customer, that’s really all that matters. If you’re operating in good faith, that’s all that matters because at the end of the day your reputation is all you have.
It’s perfectly fine to push a product that you believe in. But once that business transaction no longer make sense i.e., Manufacturer support, poor quality, control, etc. you have to protect yourself and your customers.
Thanks so much for this comment. It is spot on. It feels nice to know that you are not alone in experiencing something like this. We put all our eggs in their basket and when things turned we had our hardest year in business. Lot’s of people were upset saying we misled them when we felt misled. It would have been easy to keep selling but long term we felt it was wrong.
@@ROAOffRoad I couldn’t agree with you more and I understand how you feel. At the end of the day all you can do is be honest and explain to your customers. You were not misleading your customers because at that time the product makes sense. Your customers should understand and be reassured that you have their best interest and you’re not going to support the product when the manufacturer starts going downhill. I hope that makes sense.
I have been following RoA since you first started carrying Black Series, fell in love with the 19...started saving up as it were, then covid hit...decimated my bank account due to lost hours and bills still needed to be paid...so i waited, got to know RoA better, Honesty and Integrity in my opinion IS RoA....and this is the only reason why I will make my purchase through you...and I have had a few years to look into other dealers both here in canada and the U.S.
Even though I am still not yhere quite ues, ( getting there) I jave reached out and emailed and texted to a couple of the staff at RoA and I can say that RoA is the only company that will go above and beyond to answer a stranger's questions without hesitation....that is integrity
..those that sit and bash this company without even dealing with them in my opinion should just keep their proverbial mouths shut..( nothing good to say then say nothing ) my grandma used to say..k..rant over...just tired of the bashing without knowing all the details...
@@williamwhitbread1885I never owned a Yugo but I know that they are crap.
That’s how you’re supposed to do business. I run a medical dealership and that’s exactly how I run my business. I take phone calls from new customers all the time. I offer free, technical phone support to people that I’ve never even spoke to. That’s how I build my customer base, by being honest and taking care of the customer.
49,890 is MSRP for a 2024. Loaded.. RoA over priced things like 30 grand.. they love them when they took them out on the trails,, no issues couldn't say anything bad about them, then they deleted all the videos of the way they loved em.. stop lying..
Would be helpful to mention potential hazards others have seen in terms of wires being routed through junctiom boxes without sheathing and chaffing until they arced out and almost caught on fire.
Yeah, I just watched "Texas to Table" channel and he had a bad time with them. Good to know, thanks!
Here in Australia the hybrid caravan (trailer) market is growing strong… chassis and body is manufactured in China with fitout done locally. We are aware of the quality issues with suspension and components used on the electrical 12v systems. Knowing these issues, I’ve still gone ahead and paid a deposit on a new hybrid caravan. Purchased from a local company who seem to have a good service team, and provide a five year warranty. There are full 100% Aussie built units available, but are usually double the price of the Chinese ones.
We have been able to read between the lines, glad you filled in the blanks. You are a very positive guy and you try not to come against other manufacturers. I think you were successful in your goal here. Thank you.
Thank you!
It's all over the place now that this company puts out garbage and that their "warranty" is a joke.
I have one of the earlier models. Actually came from you guys. I’m happy with mine. But a lot of people with newer ones hate them. I think they had serious growing pains.
Happy you got a good one. So wish it was just growing pains… We would still be selling them if it was only growing pains. 😊
Are you servicing the black series after you sold them ? Can you get parts and install them as backed warranty?
We still service our customers. We don’t do outside service.
Hi, Thank You for this video It has really opened my eyes to the truth. I just inherited a 2020 Black Series HQ15 from my brother who passed in July 2023.
He would spend months at a time off the grid in the wilderness with his black series. But after he bought it he was driving it to utah where he purchased it often for issues that kept coming up. I would like to know if i should keep it or sell it? Are there any unforseen issues i should look out for?
Thank You
Some used models have users that have already worked out many of the issues that come up. Your model is probably old enough that it didn't have many of the issues we started running into. Did he purchase it from ROA? We made sure every unit went out safe and good
@@ROAOffRoad I think he did. I would love to chat with you through email or phone if you are open to that, then I could give you info about his camper. I am trying to figure out if I should keep it or sell it.
Sure thing! Just give us a call sometime (801) 860-0035
It was a toss up between this camper and Airstream. Decided on the latter. But glad to hear when they first came out they were solid trailers. Hopefully thos who purchased then are enjoying them. For ME I've been totally trouble free with my trailer knock on wood.
Be safe and enjoy.
Never seen a ROA video before, this is my first, and i will say the level of transparency and honesty is something ive rarely seen across RV Dealers in my short span on this earth, You will go far with this level of humility, Youve earned a sub and a potential customer, keep it up!
Thank you and welcome to the community! :)
A few years ago I seriously considered buying a Black Series from ROA. Quality issues aside, they clearly weren’t designed for the colder climates of much of North America. ROA offered some great mods at the time, but in end, I had to pass.
We eventually found a great deal on an Airstream, but these have issues as well.
I love the current offerings from ROA. Hopefully when we’re in the market again, we’ll come in and buy something.
Hi, I am researching a possible RV purchase, my first, and Airstream is on the list. Can you describe the issues with your Airstream?
@@hfk1001
We’ve had our Airstream for a little over two years now. For the most part it has been a good experience. But recently we noticed a few “soft spots” on our floor. From my brother in law’s experience, I know that this is the floor rotting, likely from water intrusion. In my opinion, this is the Achilles heal of Airstreams. So many potential points of failure as far as leaks go. The fact that an undetected leak can have such a costly result is maddening to me.
My understanding is that as of 2022, Airstream stopped using plywood as the subfloor and is now using some sort of composite material. This would make a leak issue like mine not nearly as costly to repair.
Yes please tell issues with airstream
I bought an HQ12, the very first one ROA sold, and beyond quality issues it had some major design flaws. Driving it home from the ROA, it swayed so badly I couldn't go over 45, I was white knuckled and full of regret. I spent thousands trying to resolve the sway, trying all kinds of different products. The final solution was to remove the dual spare tire rack and mount one tire under the front of the trailer to move weight forward, problem solved, but how did they ship something with such a fundamental and dangerous design flaw? In addition it leaked when it was brand new. ROA was helpful in helping me address the problems, and once it was dialed in it was a pretty fun trailer. Ultimately it was just too heavy to comfortably tow with my midsize truck, and the articulating hitch was a huge hassle. I sold it and it soured me to RVs. I'm back to tent camping and couldn't be happier.
Can you give an example of quality issues that you encountered?
Multiple people have had entire wheel/brake/hub assemblies separate from these trailers while on the road, the suspension systems were designed by a guy with no engineering education whatsoever, the guy who started Black Series went to school for business and economics and one day just decided he would start designing hard core off road trailers.
Thank you for pronouncing "important" correctly.
QC is a constant issue these days, as companies regularly seek to cut corners and drive the quality down to the lowest the customers will accept.
I have a 2022 HQ19, your hinting at safety issues is nonsense. Either tell everything or say nothing. I suspect that you have found out that selling 500 Black Series per year to a few way overpriced models you currently offer has to hurt the bottom line. Plus, you were charging people thousands of dollars for upgrades etc. I am sorry, but the only thing this "rant" has done has helped me to decide that ROA is not for me. What few "workmanship issues" I have discovered are related entirely to California and not the China portion of assembly. You were honest about one comment, and that is that "they all have issues". Even if it were perfect, drag it on the highways for a few thousand miles and see what you have. Let alone taking anything off-road, that will expose the weaknesses much quicker. I know people who have owned some of the brands you currently sell, be careful because they are not all you claim them to be either. I even had one person tell me that if I give ROA $5,000.00 that I can "be a roamer too". Really? Your that special? At the end of the day margin and volume both count. You can tell everyone that selling RV's isn't important to you. I say "BS".
Sorry, I work at a dealer who dropped black series too. Absolute junk.
I have looked at RV's that are 2 to 3 times more expensive than what I paid that are junk... Even if the perfect RV exists, drag it over the highways, roads, and off-road and it won't be perfect for long. I agree that they are not without issues, but since I have resolved those issues myself, it has been solid, very solid.
Sorry moved to main comment
I think your too offended to be logical.
I was in retail sales for years and one thing I learned is manufacturers will come in with great ideas, award winning, head turning products, great warranties and manufacturing outstanding quality control and the product goes off the shelf like a hot new music album. Then suddenly, everything changes and you're left wondering what happened? Typically what happens is the cost overrun of quality gives way to trying to increase profit. This results in cutting costs by lowering quality control standards, substituting cheaper parts, all to speed up production to insure more product for less cost. The outcome: more failures, more down time, more returns and warranty claims and ultimately less customer service. I believe ROA 100% and have no doubt about the situation.
@@troyezell5841Actually, I am not offended at all. I too have worked in sales, service, and manufacturing and understand things to a level way deeper than "sales" - no offense intended. I have a very good understanding of production costs, warranty costs and the rest of expenses involved in manufacturing.
I don't claim that Black Series is the perfect camper, such a camper as mentioned more than once has yet to be built.
My statement is if there is truly a "safety issue" that ROA is aware of, they should feel obligated to make people aware of it. I personally know Black Series owners who have purchased from ROA, they haven't been notified either. So, if it is a real issue, why would you not at least tell your customers about it to keep them safe?
I feel that ROA has great intentions and are trying to do as many things as possible differently from other RV Sales locations but back to your statement about bottom line. This 500 unit per year loss in sales volume has hurt their bottom line. This of course doesn't include the massive profits they made on upgrades they sold.
The other brands they have moved to, specifically the Forest River - Palomino Pause give me great reasons for concern. I see the potential for a very real very large safety issue that no one wants to discuss. This is a great example of what will happen when sales volume doesn't meet the expected levels which will create the exact thing that you mentioned, reduce the cost of manufacturing.
Face it, 8% plus interest, a very soft economy, and people struggling to survive will certainly dampen the ability to move $138K products built by the consistent top 5 worst RV manufacturing companies in the USA. Yeah, I know "Pause is a complete different division given additional latitude to build something that is different.
Time will tell the story about that too.
At the end of the day, if you are satisfied with whatever you have and actually use it, that's terrific!
Being in Canada we don’t have many off-road bigger trailers to pick from. I’ve seen Black series, Opus and that’s about it. Hopefully the Palomino Pause comes here, and the imperial outdoors.
While I didn’t buy a HQ21 from you. I did travel to your store in late 2020. But no one ever informed us that you were having issues with quality or that you were looking at severing ties. Also interesting that you waiting until 2023 to explain why you dissolved your relationship.
Let’s talk about the catastrophic axel failure .
I greatly appreciate your integrity. 👍😃
Thank you for answering the Black Series question.
Old school. Respect for this Man . Some people love to buy something to pass to they generations. Like me with my very unique and well maintained 1994 dutchman fifth wheel. Cheers from Canada 🇨🇦
Yeah, there’s this thing happening in the world and it’s build something and then charge an outrageous price for it to the point where you could build three of these from the profit of one it’s always about the money. They didn’t care about the quality it’s garbage and stay away from it. My friend had one and it was nothing but problems, and he made sure he didn’t sell it to anybody he knew!
Thank you for the information, as im looking to buy an off road trailer, and i was looking at the Black Star 15 as a possibility.
You may want to look at the MDC 16 Island or MDC 16 East-West. They are much higher quality and the support is great. 😊
th-cam.com/video/7pRrOkS6H8o/w-d-xo.htmlsi=QGZRAAM4g-JeU6hk
Mine has been amazing. Almost No problems and 30,000miles. With thousands on dirt roads and trails.
Black Series definitely have their issues, but they are also priced (generally) 30k less than the next comparable trailers. Compare a HQ19 to a Dweller 19. You get what you pay for. That being said, kudos to ROA for sticking to their guns, but unfortunately by doing so they are excluding a large portion of consumers the opportunity to join in their awesome culture. Hopefully Black Series can sort out their manufacturing and quality control standards in the future. If they can do that there's a huge market for their trailers in that price range!
Glad you cut ties with them. I noticed their quality dropped as well over the years. I wonder what other Australian trailers are actually made in China as well?
Black Label were *never* made in Australia. They are now and always have been made in China.
The trailer is not made in China, the chassis is and so are the Australian ones. I am beating mine hard offroad and nothing has gone wrong at all. Good luck finding a chassis made here without spending over 100k, lippert chassis are Chinese as well and they build a bunch. Quality didnt drop, others just surpassed them and available materials got worse. I am saying this because I have one and compared it to other brands, same garbage on everything but functional.
@@canzcustoms the chassis is the easiest part, yes I'm Australian and yes I'm a fabricator.
Same here in the US, besides the ugly welds on the black series i have beat it hard and it does hold up well. Your guys designed the original, Jack took it here to the states.
Sucks because that’s the camper that brought me to you guys.
So I can only offer my personal view. I used ROA videos a lot for initial decision on Black Series purchase but found my 2021 HQ19 on east coast delivered in Oct of 2020 at $60k USD MSRP which for quality and capability was a FAR better deal than airstreams and the “off road camper” type did not have as many options as now. I have and still am living in my full time on my land in TN and I build a barndo. My main failures or issues that drove me to upgrade/replace have all been with 3rd party parts other than annoyance issues like delaminating things due to humidity. Failure of dometic fridge to keep cool, failure of dometic ac to not freeze up, some minor replaceable parts in the dometic water heater. Failure of the gel batteries to hold a charge. For the dometic parts those were in last 8 months so for living full time, I feel I got the normal consumer use out of a cheap throw in brand. The batteries are purchased by dealers not black series though issue of what caused the batteries to fail may have been cheap solar charger and inverter or wrong settings and happened early on. But replacement of rest of electrical was an upgrade decision with new lithium batteries not because they failed. So IMO yes quality went down from what I got from the postings I have seen once COVID went into full swing which impacted every brand and demand was still climbing. It’s the nature of the beast. It still goes back to anyone should have awareness and min skills to inspect and check out whatever they are purchasing. Would I buy one again? Yes if I checked it out and it’s in same shape as my current one and at same MSRP with some markup for inflation. But I would not for the extra 30k that was being added for shipping costs last year.
I'm glad that you are satisfied with your purchase. That's all that really matters in the end. However, I don't believe that a $60k unit should have anything cheap or throw-away used by the manufacturer. As buyers, we have been conditioned by the RV industry to accept their high prices and subpar quality for years. If you bought a comparably priced car/truck and had the same 'issues', you would be irate and rightfully so. I don't own a BS unit but do have a 28' Grand Design Imagine. The quality for my unit has been okay but several upgrades have been made to give better usage and reliability.
@@brucejones1867 I agree just I think that is an entire industry problem not just black series based on my purchases. The only thing that failed far quickly than it should was my agm batteries which the dealers purchase and install when delivered not black series so I can’t hold them accountable
Well. As a long term camper. I can definitely see the quality issues. Over the years the manufacturers have cheapened their quality for profits. My last purchase was a 2014. It's had a few issues but nothing major until just the last couple of years. Roof leak around the dumbest thing. The antenna. Now we're having delam issues. May be time to look into something else or rebuild. Which I like to do
i watched many videos from ROA and i was sold on Black series, only to come across a forum post on a really bad Experience someone had had. I started researching on my own only to find out these are Chinese made blank trailers, which is fine, but they are shipped in and modified by black series. It's the reason they only have 30 gallons of water, their frames are universal and they can only use certain size tanks. I started looking elsewhere and ended up with Northwest manufacturing, they make Arctic Fox, Outdoors RV and Nash. All are exceptionally high-quality trailers but do not have the cool factor of a black series. I've had my outdoors RV 23 DBS since January 2022. It is literally unbelievable how overbuilt my trailer is!
OMG! This video was about 3 weeks too late. I remember seeing Black Series on other videos and your videos, so when I saw them at the Flagstaff, Overland Expo, I was all over it. My wife and I purchased a MARS-13. She had to have a toilet & shower. Anyway, I was wondering why they were all Asian. I'm a blue collar tradesman and really hate buying China made products! I don't mind buying any other countries products imported from that country. I kept thinking as we walked around the trailer for pick up, this didn't look as well built as I thought it would be. When I got home I went to set the support legs and sure enough, 1 didn't work. I filed my warranty claim. Let's see how this goes. I really wish I had seen your video a month early. Keep up the great work. I knew it was too good to be true. 😡🤬🤦♂
We really hope you have a good experience! We don't wish a frustrating experience on anyone.
If you are doing an explanation video? Please do so! Stop telling us how much you don’t want to talk about it. Come on big boy just spit it out or say nothing. If you are standing on something? Then stand up and stand on it. That’s all I want to say so I don’t hurt anyone’s feelings. Feelings are the first consideration lol. See what I mean? Wishy washy is not confidence inspiring salespeople.
I appreciate this video and support your decision
We just finished camping in West Yellowstone, MT, and saw ~5 Black Series campers in the wild! They must be popular. When we saw their trailers at a dealer last year, we weren't impressed with the finishings. We went with Ember (which, as a company, has had its own issues) instead and have been happy overall.
Companies who do not build quality will surely fail. Just a matter of time.
Good on you.
If ask any RV dealership or technician for vehicles being built over COVID, it’s the same story for every brand
Are you going to service the Black series
Once you see these selling at the big rv lots you know it’s a piece 😂 I wish all rv dealers had this type of integrity when they know a brand is building poor quality trailers.
You don't have to apologize for protecting your customers from bad craftsmanship. Lots of brands suffer quality issues over time, especially when trying to be competitive by using cheap materials. Anyone who can't understand this is a customer you wouldn't want at any price. Thanks for the explanation though... it means alot.
Everyone you sold to you should support.
Sorry to hear about the Black series products quality issues. We are fairly new to RV life. We have Off-Roaded and tent camped for years. We have a Intec Sol Horizon Rover trailer. We know it is not a true HD off-road package, however it seems fairly well constructed and we will use it as a base camp and then go wheeling in our 4Runner. What do you think of this type of trailer and do you have anything similar without a lot of additional cost. I appreciate your integrity and we may get something more serious in the future.
"I'm gonna try and not talk too much about it" 10 minutes later..................
Your the man--Good Rant and common sense
I’ve heard so many horror stories about quite expensive trailers failing almost immediately on the road, and a lot of them just being such cheap quality it’s crazy.
Looks like there's a huge market for off-road capable expedition type trailers. Weird no one in the US has bothered. Australia has the off-road vehicle upgrade market perfected.
It looks like they stopped selling them new in Australia a year or two back. Only used ones available now.
they actually all got dumped at an Auction House for tens of thousands of dollars below MRSP. Their reputation in Australia was so bad.
Absolutely love how you represent this in a very professional way the concept of being involved with your buyers to be ROAMERS is awesome
I saw one of these in Vermont last July . I felt so bad for the family that shelled out over 60 grand for it . I mean it was a real joke just an average camper with some bolt on crap accessories. I love the rock bars that have stickers on them that say no step . They are useless thin pipes 😂
I have a classic double and the paint is not holding up in several places. Kinda worried about getting parts and anything covered on warranty.
Hey. Great video. Thanks for being honest. Would like to come over from Denver to see you guys and what you have.some day. Thanks from bills cool projects on youtube.
I own a Black Series HQ15 2020 the good years; from being part of a FB owners group its clear the lack of quality control has lead to many different issues for different years and even within the same years. (electrical issues, suspension issue, rating and alignment, as well as improperly install laminate during a large run of them., Warranty been good and bad depending who still working there (and maybe you can say that about many manufactures idk)). So maybe odd one good after 2020/21 but many aren’t. If you’re not into dong your own upgrades and repairs don’t go there. There are many who done mods to their BS and once over that hump are very happy. And maybe i speak for those who cant or wont reach for the price of the new TOP DOGS. I guess too we’ll see what coms next from BS if the new BAJA will be all that and rumoured to be priced lower… I understand BS is selling them cheat cause there’s too many sitting around, these days wouldn’t surprise me that they are on their way out. They had the playing field and now sadly they don’t in my opinion. I’m happy with my HQ15 I been full time RV in it for almost 4 years; I’ve done ton of mods to help suit Canada weather. I know of two BS that caught fire (one with real sad outcome) hard to say on one of the incidents what ultimately caused it to go up in smoke. If you own one I highly recommend the OWNERS FB group….
Id like addd i have channel you can see my opinion of BS there as well. I also agree that the problems have stemmed from final assembly in California.
I am so glad I haven't bought one. I did drove to Orlando and look at a 19 series. I noticed the oven looked cheap. Had Sharpe corners. It looked like bent angles with no roll over for strength and gaps between the metals. Right off the bat I thought this isn't good the quality control looked shabby and cheap.
Grand design was acquired by winnebago and went down hill some.
I appreciate your honesty!
Well said.
Integrity…either you have it or you don’t.
THANK YOU!
I built my own trailer because the trailer market is just way inflated. If anything I might shift my business to building trailers because I’m tired of seeing people get milked by big business. There is a huge market for well built low cost trailers.
Yeah go for it dude good luck
Not exactly what I wanted to hear I had been waiting along time for this. But understandable. Some day I will hopefully meet you in person to have this conversation. The web is not the place. Until then (Thank You)
I still got one earlier today. There are definitely some issues in quality. But they seem more like things I can fix. I’d be curious to hear about the safety issues he mentioned. I got a video on my channel on the one I just picked up 2023.
Something that I don't feel was touched on by in the video is, whilst Black Series had falling quality issues, other brands were consistently improving. The marketplace has changed most dramatically in the past few years, technology, ideology, and warranty. ROA seems to understand the nature of good business, meaning, look after your customers, and they come back time and time again. You cannot do that if you don't have faith in what you sell. Similarly, Black Series still provides a tremendous product, much better than many mainstream US rv's. But much-much better, reliable, easier to use trailers are available. Plus, you can go American made, South African, Canadian, or Australian, and know that it is the best manufactured product of the moment.
For the record too, I loved the little HQ12 when if first released. There was nothing like it. Today, it feels old fashioned.
Thanks for the great comment!
Well, that makes sense. Same thing with my personal experience on a whole different type of products. The original product was great. It was produced by a German company. The production got shipped to China. The product became complete garbage.
This happens so often, and the scary thing is. In my business, this can be life threatening.
Everyone in Australia always new they weren't built here and they were not anyone's favourite. No wonder they went to the US. There is a reason why the Australian top full offroad trailers & campers are twice the price of a Black Series, the Aussie trailers go the distance in the tough conditions. Buyer beware. I feel sorry for the buyers who bought the Black Series. Check out Aussie brands like ZoneRV, Kedron, AOR (Australian Off Road), Bushtracker, Mountain Trail and watch their TH-cams and take note of the build. We see a lot of Aussie component designs like Cruisemaster airbags suspension and composite slowly making it into USA design and build. Look after your local manufacturers and they'll come up with the goods. The above mentioned Aussie brands have been around for a long time because they don't build junk and quality and tech is industry leading.
What camper do you recommend now?
The solar panels are crap on those ….well basically the whole electrical system
I thought of getting a camper trailer here in AU. What's the latest year you would recommend buying? Thnx in advance