My Rhodonite changes to a dark copper on the dried pan but when rewet and applied to paper it is true to the original tube color. I haven't noticed any browning or fading on my artwork. I dont care how the color changes in the pan as long as its still Rhodonite pink. I always keep a pan or dollop on my palette, its one of my favorites.
I have a few of the Primateks and enjoy using them however folks need to be aware that many of them show a sparkle, particularly in heavier applications, as if they have mica in them. They don't have added mica, the sparkle is the mineral's crushed crystals but it does limit their use. I use them in areas that work well for the sparkle effect, for instance, the blue gray kyanite makes lovely icey winter ponds, the bronzite ones look great in dessert hills or sunset landscapes. Rhodonite has a tiny amount of sparkle, not enough to limit the use, in my opinion anyway, certainly not as much as the Red Fuchsite, Amethyst, Kyanite, Fuchsite (green) and the bronzites.
You are so right, and I totally agree with you. As the series go on, for the colors that have a lot of sparkles, I'll be sure to be mentioning them. So glad I am not the only one that feels limited by their sparkle-ness :)
My artwork includes multi-dimensional pieces that have gold leaf borders and/or copper (sometimes silver) line art. These paints are perfect for my art style and aesthetic, so yes do let us know how they glimmer & shimmer. Personally, I'd take them more as encouragement than as a warning 😋
Rhodonite itself oxidizes. It's not light that changes the color, but oxygen (look it up, it's true.) I have had significant color shift in the granulation (just the granulation) of my swatch after a month. I put it in a dark closet and left it where air would touch it.
Interesting. I just moved to massachusetts last year. Learned something new. As always. Love your channel and the work you do and the great amounts of research that go into it all. Thank you!
I own both Rhodonite and Quin Rose, and I have to say, I 100% agree with you. You don't need the Rhodonite if you own either Quin Rose or Quin Pink. It does mix very pretty but I feel it tends to mute some colors more than mixing with Quin Rose would, which could be a desirable effect, but for some things, I prefer really bright colors. What I do absolutely LOVE about this color is the texture it creates. DS colors are so unique that it's hard to choose some times, and I'm currently trying to (very carefully) expand my palette, so I'm binge watching a lot of your videos!
I agree with the granulation it is in my granulating pallet right now and I love it I have not seen it turn colour as of yet but I don’t even using it for a couple of years
It appears that rhodonite gemstone has a tendency to have many inclusions or impurities (this is usually other minerals that occur naturally with the Rhodonite when mined) in the stone unless you have the absolutely finest gem quality crystal. The brown sediment in Rhodonite genuine is likely the result of these inclusions being included when grinding the mineral for the paint. I notice the brown particles separate out and settle when mixed with water on your pallet and allowed to sit for a little while. I suppose the brown particles have a heavier molecular density than the pink particles that seem to stay suspended in the water longer...so the brown particles granulate while the pure pink color does not. I'm guessing Daniel Smith is not using the absolute finest quality Rhodonite to grind up into watercolor paints....which would seem a little crazy, because no doubt a pure finest gem quality stone is worth far more as an actual gem...than ground up into a fine dust in order to be painted on our relatively low valued watercolor paintings. ;-)
I have Rhodonite Gen. I really like it a lot. I use it mostly on trees and branches to add warmth and brightness. or in the background of woodlands. I think although it's bright, it is a bit earthy and I do get slight granulation I think you're right and it's the brown from oxidation. Although I never noticed a browning on my palette, I must see a little brown in the pink so it's a different look for me than Quin Rose - which is my very favorite pink color. You mentioned scanning color cards and I was wondering what scanner you use. I am thinking of buying one and didn't want to spend a lot. I was considering an Epson Perfection v600.
You are so right. It is a softer pink than Quin Rose (high five for loving quin rose). The scanner I use is Canon CanoScan LiDE 220. I like it as it is happy to be stored upright & comes with a stand for doing just that.
I just love this series you have put together. Watching it before I buy a color has been tremendously helpful. I got excited about this color, bought it to paint peonies. Thought it would be a good substitute for Opera. Nope, the brownish rustish color ruined my peonies. It made it look like a dying flower. However, if you're going for a vintage, rustic or dying flower look this is perfect. I like it but it has limited uses because of the oxidation. TFS.
You've mentioned that Sennelier Rose Madder Lake is a fugitive color which is made of PV19. Is that based on a particular lightfastness test ? Because on the tube it's labeled/rated as "I"or "three stars" which suggests that it's actually in the excellent lightfastness group.
Thank you so much for the variety of things you take into consideration. I am seduced by the official colour swatch of this but looking at your comparison paint out it doesn’t look like that at all. Saved me some money, cheers! 🍻
Just bought the original Primatek set along with the essential one, thank you so much for these videos! Can't wait to dive into some swatching and mixing.
I really appreciate these reviews! I learn so much about the colours and their properties, and it really helps me as an amateur decide what colours and supplies could work for me. Thank you.
So much pink on one sheet, it made me so happy, haha! XD I love Rhodonite genuine, it's pretty interesting that a color made from rocks would end up that lively and bright (so many are... brown). Great new series, I can't wait to watch Purpurite :D
I have several tubes from Daniel Smith's Primatek series. Some I use more than others; but, I don't have Rhodonite Genuine. I already have Quin Rose, Red, and Magenta. So, I don't feel that I'm missing the Rhodonite Genuine. Washington state designated petrified wood as the state's gem in 1975. While it is rock-hard and jewel-like when polished, it's not a gem stone. It's a fossil and some of these fossils can be really pretty. I love petrified wood.
Thank you so much for making these videos... they are a great resource. Even though I own a lot of the colors you test, it is still helpful for me to see another person's techniques and mixes with the same colors!
Wow! Thank you soooo much! I have this color and I bought it without looking up swatches. I have experienced the browning issue on my palette as well. Thought it was just me!! It makes some lovely mixes for flowers.
Hi Oto so happy you made this video! I'm building my pinks in my pallet and was researching this color as one of my next to buy and just wanted you to know you're my "go-to" now for a professional opinion before I make my purchases. Thank you as always my friend :)
Rhodonite is beautiful, as long as you're prepared for the granulation turning a doe coat tan or buff as it oxidizes. :) It's LIGHTfast, but not colorfast.
I just bought this color a few months ago because I felt like it was a perfect color for behind an egrets beak! I tried it from the DS dot chart. I don't use it too much but it is sparkly and so much fun! I can't wait to see your video on it.
I was going to say that i never experienced oxidisation or any of the granulation when i used Rhodonite but when i went to check the tube i got with the primatek set it turned out it was Quinacridone rose which i somehow missed when i was initially squeezing it out into a pan. I didn't already have Quin rose so maybe i was lucky to get it instead.
I wish I'd seen this a month ago when I bought this paint on a whim... I was really excited about it because I've seen many people swatch it out on youtube from the dot cards and the color is lovely. Unfortunately, I encountered the oxidation right away when I tested it out myself, and all my enthusiasm for the color went out the window. I primarily do botanical paintings, so my only real use for this color is maybe a dried or dying rose, which I don't find particularly inspiring. I also bought Sodalite Genuine when I purchased the Rhodonite, and it exceeded all of my expectations. I love the granulation, and the deep, dark blue hue. I can't wait to find out which other primatek colors are actually worth the money! Thank you very much for the video, and I'll definitely be tuning in for more of this series :)
US states have a lot of official state things. Gemstones/minerals is definitely one of the more fun ones. : ) That info about the oxidization is really interesting. I actually knew that about rhodonite - but I somehow didn't make the connection. I agree that it definitely feels like the brand should have provided that kind of information - and I think it might be something interesting to work with, if you kept how it was going to age in mind deliberately. I actually kind of like the oxidation, but I certainly wouldn't be pleased with it as a surprise! Super excited to see you run the next color through its paces as well. Thanks!
When I looked into all this US state official things, I was so impressed that you have so many! I think Japanese prefectures tend to have flowers and trees and that's it? So it's totally awesome that you guys go ALL OUT on your states! I don't personally mind the oxidisation, and I really like the color. But yeah, it if is a surprise, I would be really bummed about it too.
Hey Oto! I would suggest doing a shorter more intense light fastness test instead of over 6mo with normal light conditions. This would give the paint less time to oxidize and therefore might be a more true light fastness test because over time you might not be able to tell what change was from light and what change was from oxidation. Maybe also have one swatch cut off from oxygen and kept in a dark place while another is kept in the same dark place but allowed access to air to see what just oxidation does by itself? Also not every state has a gemstone. Some have really random stuff like state fossil, but not everyone has one!
I am fascinated by their primateks especially as a paint maker. I think when it comes to mineral colours there's a lot of variation which cant be controlled I have also seen varied effects from my own mineral paints I've made. It's terrible DS havent tested this pigment properly and warned about the oxidisation issue. I'm too scared to use this colour for this purpose at least when it comes to poor lightfastness in other paints I know how the paint will fade.
Oh, I had the Rhodonite in the Primatek set and it's so lovely. I didn't use it a lot, but never saw the brown come through. Now I'm a little worried about it... but it could also be an interesting effect. Thank you for this video! There's just so much to learn. :)
I just got this for Christmas so I was curious. I'm wondering if perhaps sealing work made with this in something airtight will help keep it decent while waiting to be scanned? I'm going to try it with different types of water and see if that has any effect on the browning. I usually use tap that I've let sit out as that takes some of the hardness out of it. I guess I'll try bottled, fresh tap, and tap that's been sitting out. We'll see. The mixes are AMAZING. Especially with ultramarine blue, wow!
Hi thanks for another interesting review and comparison. I was wondering if the daily creative break videos were going to continue. I have missed them. When I didn’t see them I was really hoping that everything was going well and was happy to see that you were posting other things. Just wanted to let you know that they were useful to me and I have shared them with some friends.
Hi Spiroffd, yes, I am sorry I had to cut that series.... I'll copy and paste what I wrote on the day 8 video here: I am really sorry but I am going to have to cut this series short. The low views to this series is seriously hurting this channel already, and I fear that if I keep going with it, the channel will take a lot of damage. I really appreciate everyone taking part and you are so precious to me. Since I already have a year's worth of questions, I will continue to make a weekly post on Patreon (www.patreon.com/otokano) where low views won't affect anything. I realise this is not the same as a daily video, but it is for now the best solution I can think of. Perhaps further down the line I can create a second channel that is dedicated to these daily creative breaks. Again, I am so sorry for having to cut this series short. I totally understand that it is a disappointment to those of you who have taken part in it so far. For that, I can only apologise.
Dr. Oto Kano I’m not quite sure how I missed that. I am disappointed, but completely understand. Again I wanted to thank you for taking the time to seriously address these issues. I do think that there is a real place for this within the art community as a whole and this small one in particular. As we all know you can have a ton of art supplies, but it’s truly the process of creating a piece of artwork that is what drives us. Everything that goes into and around that creative process is important. Including all of the ups, downs, emotional, financial ba
If there's an oxidation problem, it's likely to show up right away. Especially in the thin washes since there's virtually no protection from the medium. The paint turning brown on the palette sounds suspicious to me, almost like someone put too much water on the palette in a brown color and contamination occurred. I also imagine the careless way some watercolor artists clean their brushes between colors might have something to do with it. Also, was there atmospheric pollution thick in the air? That can cause a color change real easily.
I was just thinking the same thing. Air isn't like light. Oxidation doesn't need 6 months to show up. If oxidation is an issue, it would've occurred during the mulling process when the mineral was first crushed and ground up into paint. Being tiny particles, the exposure to air would've had an immediate effect. I think the brown color that people see stem from the natural earthy bits that can be found on the actual rock. Artists aren't scientists and aren't necessarily creating the right controls to verify this oxidation, however what I've seen consistently in the comments is that some are seeing brown in their paint and some aren't. This tells me that what they're seeing is the variation of color that comes from a natural mineral. No 2 rocks are alike, and people are mistaking this as oxidization -- but if it were true that it oxidizes, then that browning would occur for everyone. Instead, we see that many who already have this paint aren't having any color shifting issues.
thank you so much for these series! i work with rhodonite watercolor for already a year, and i didn't have issues with it. i also have the crystal itself and i can see these grey-yellow-brown things in it. so maybe it is concerned with the crystal itself in nature?
Looking forward to independent lightfast results. Wonder what would happen if you put a swatch of rhodonite genuine in a drawer or closet shelf, away from light but in open air? Would oxidation change the color if a piece was left out vs being in a journal? (It's the curious experimenter in me coming out...) Thanks for another great video!
That's how I do lightfastness test anyway. Put one half on a window, the other half between a catalogue and put into a drawer. So we will see how it goes :)
If it's in a drawer with air touching it, yes it will oxidize. If you put it in an airtight bag and suck the air out enough it wouldn't oxidize. Maybe putting it between the pages of a book is enough to protect it, but just a drawer would absolutely not be enough if it's oxidation doing the discoloration
Thank you again, interesting review :D I had DS Rhodonite in my storage for a long time and once considered to put it on my travel palette cause it mixes quite well as you said. But those oxidisation issues always pushed me away from it. I guess i find more easier and beautiful quinacridones for they shine and vibrancy. And i think Senneliers Rose Madder Lake is really similar in tones with Rhodonite.
You are so welcome Tintti! Yes the sennelier Rose Madder Lake is really similar to Rhodonite. I was mistaken when I said in the video that the Sennelier Rose Madder Lake was fugitive. Another viewer pointed out to me that it is made with PV19 so very lightfast indeed!
I have this and its wonderful! Its a soft baby pink and doesn't get too dark. Mine has not changed color yet and doesn't have any brown granulation. it doesn't dry to a duller pink color like most other pinks. My 1st tube was slightly granulating with brownish flecks but not my 2nd tube. I have yet to see a Daniel Smith watercolor of any pigment that didn't have flecks in it now and then.They do not use super finely ground pigments. What kind of paper do you use for these tests?
hmmm, there are definitely plenty of transparent pinky colors that would do the job, and probably better. I don't hate the oxidization factor, I really enjoy paints that have unique and somewhat unpredictable qualities as long as I know what they are and can work with them instead of being surprised, however I feel like with this type of pink it doesn't make a ton of sense for too many applications. Maybe for wilting flowers or really desaturated styles? I'd really be interested in that quality in some earthy greens and reds, i think it could really add something cool to landscapes. Maybe.
As far as I know it does change color. It will become brown/copper. But not due to light but oxidisation so when exposed to air it will change color over time
I just love this color but am so sad that it deteriorates. I was wondering if mixing it with other colors reduces the degradation? Or if there is a way to seal it to protect it from oxidation?
I'm sure a fixative should prevent it from oxidizing. Then again, not many people have seen this oxidation in their hung artwork. I suspect the oxidation is in the crystal itself. The reason I say that is bc the oxidation should've occurred during the mulling process when the mineral is crushed & exposed to the air. If it hadn't already oxidized by then, it's unlikely to oxidize later. The brown that people claim to see is actually the natural mineral characteristics. You can see these brown bits in the rock itself. This could be oxidation that occurred before it was mulled, but again, once it's oxidized then it's already browned & unlikely to brown further than it already has.
INTERRESTING! If this color were sealed, would that stop oxidation? It looks like a possible replacement for Opera, which is fugitive. Thanks much for your reviews!
My Rhodonite changes to a dark copper on the dried pan but when rewet and applied to paper it is true to the original tube color. I haven't noticed any browning or fading on my artwork. I dont care how the color changes in the pan as long as its still Rhodonite pink. I always keep a pan or dollop on my palette, its one of my favorites.
I have a few of the Primateks and enjoy using them however folks need to be aware that many of them show a sparkle, particularly in heavier applications, as if they have mica in them. They don't have added mica, the sparkle is the mineral's crushed crystals but it does limit their use. I use them in areas that work well for the sparkle effect, for instance, the blue gray kyanite makes lovely icey winter ponds, the bronzite ones look great in dessert hills or sunset landscapes. Rhodonite has a tiny amount of sparkle, not enough to limit the use, in my opinion anyway, certainly not as much as the Red Fuchsite, Amethyst, Kyanite, Fuchsite (green) and the bronzites.
You are so right, and I totally agree with you. As the series go on, for the colors that have a lot of sparkles, I'll be sure to be mentioning them. So glad I am not the only one that feels limited by their sparkle-ness :)
My artwork includes multi-dimensional pieces that have gold leaf borders and/or copper (sometimes silver) line art. These paints are perfect for my art style and aesthetic, so yes do let us know how they glimmer & shimmer. Personally, I'd take them more as encouragement than as a warning 😋
I 've had a swatch of rhodonite hanging in my greenhouse for about 6 weeks so has seen some intense sunlight and so far no change
That's super useful to know, thank you Kaz!
Maybe it's the water some people are using, hard water would probably make a difference.
That is a very good point Elizabeth!
Rhodonite itself oxidizes. It's not light that changes the color, but oxygen (look it up, it's true.) I have had significant color shift in the granulation (just the granulation) of my swatch after a month. I put it in a dark closet and left it where air would touch it.
Interesting. I just moved to massachusetts last year. Learned something new. As always. Love your channel and the work you do and the great amounts of research that go into it all. Thank you!
I own both Rhodonite and Quin Rose, and I have to say, I 100% agree with you. You don't need the Rhodonite if you own either Quin Rose or Quin Pink. It does mix very pretty but I feel it tends to mute some colors more than mixing with Quin Rose would, which could be a desirable effect, but for some things, I prefer really bright colors. What I do absolutely LOVE about this color is the texture it creates. DS colors are so unique that it's hard to choose some times, and I'm currently trying to (very carefully) expand my palette, so I'm binge watching a lot of your videos!
I agree with the granulation it is in my granulating pallet right now and I love it I have not seen it turn colour as of yet but I don’t even using it for a couple of years
It appears that rhodonite gemstone has a tendency to have many inclusions or impurities (this is usually other minerals that occur naturally with the Rhodonite when mined) in the stone unless you have the absolutely finest gem quality crystal. The brown sediment in Rhodonite genuine is likely the result of these inclusions being included when grinding the mineral for the paint. I notice the brown particles separate out and settle when mixed with water on your pallet and allowed to sit for a little while. I suppose the brown particles have a heavier molecular density than the pink particles that seem to stay suspended in the water longer...so the brown particles granulate while the pure pink color does not. I'm guessing Daniel Smith is not using the absolute finest quality Rhodonite to grind up into watercolor paints....which would seem a little crazy, because no doubt a pure finest gem quality stone is worth far more as an actual gem...than ground up into a fine dust in order to be painted on our relatively low valued watercolor paintings. ;-)
This is so helpful ! It's unfortunate that this wasn't pinned. Thank you for sharing your knowledge.
Oho! This'll be a great series, Oto! Can't wait for the others too (especially Fuchsite Genuine)!
So glad you like it Grace :D Fuchsite is coming! I think I will do the first 18 Primatek colors, as those are the bright colorful ones.
I have Rhodonite Gen. I really like it a lot. I use it mostly on trees and branches to add warmth and brightness. or in the background of woodlands. I think although it's bright, it is a bit earthy and I do get slight granulation I think you're right and it's the brown from oxidation. Although I never noticed a browning on my palette, I must see a little brown in the pink so it's a different look for me than Quin Rose - which is my very favorite pink color. You mentioned scanning color cards and I was wondering what scanner you use. I am thinking of buying one and didn't want to spend a lot. I was considering an Epson Perfection v600.
You are so right. It is a softer pink than Quin Rose (high five for loving quin rose).
The scanner I use is Canon CanoScan LiDE 220. I like it as it is happy to be stored upright & comes with a stand for doing just that.
I just love this series you have put together. Watching it before I buy a color has been tremendously helpful. I got excited about this color, bought it to paint peonies. Thought it would be a good substitute for Opera. Nope, the brownish rustish color ruined my peonies. It made it look like a dying flower. However, if you're going for a vintage, rustic or dying flower look this is perfect. I like it but it has limited uses because of the oxidation. TFS.
You've mentioned that Sennelier Rose Madder Lake is a fugitive color which is made of PV19.
Is that based on a particular lightfastness test ?
Because on the tube it's labeled/rated as "I"or "three stars" which suggests that it's actually in the excellent lightfastness group.
Thank you so much for the variety of things you take into consideration. I am seduced by the official colour swatch of this but looking at your comparison paint out it doesn’t look like that at all. Saved me some money, cheers! 🍻
Just bought the original Primatek set along with the essential one, thank you so much for these videos! Can't wait to dive into some swatching and mixing.
I really appreciate these reviews! I learn so much about the colours and their properties, and it really helps me as an amateur decide what colours and supplies could work for me. Thank you.
So much pink on one sheet, it made me so happy, haha! XD
I love Rhodonite genuine, it's pretty interesting that a color made from rocks would end up that lively and bright (so many are... brown). Great new series, I can't wait to watch Purpurite :D
So glad you like this series, I'm enjoying making it :D
Hey Oto, just wondering if any of your test sheets or tests ever showed the oxidization problem now that its been quite a few months now.
Couldn’t you seal it if oxygen is the problem?
Thank you. Can someone link me to the 6 month follow up on the oxidation? I could not find it in the channel. Thanks!
Could you link your lightfastness results? Very curious! And thank you for your work on this!
I have it and adore this colour
I would love to try it I think it's so pretty
I have several tubes from Daniel Smith's Primatek series. Some I use more than others; but, I don't have Rhodonite Genuine. I already have Quin Rose, Red, and Magenta. So, I don't feel that I'm missing the Rhodonite Genuine.
Washington state designated petrified wood as the state's gem in 1975. While it is rock-hard and jewel-like when polished, it's not a gem stone. It's a fossil and some of these fossils can be really pretty. I love petrified wood.
cool!
That is so cool Donna. We have a petrified wood in our botanical garden. Ours have a really lovely ochre color to it.
Thank you so much for making these videos... they are a great resource. Even though I own a lot of the colors you test, it is still helpful for me to see another person's techniques and mixes with the same colors!
Wow! Thank you soooo much! I have this color and I bought it without looking up swatches. I have experienced the browning issue on my palette as well. Thought it was just me!! It makes some lovely mixes for flowers.
You are definitely not on your own, I've heard other people say the same thing. I agree with you, it does make the most gorgeous mixes!
Hi Oto so happy you made this video! I'm building my pinks in my pallet and was researching this color as one of my next to buy and just wanted you to know you're my "go-to" now for a professional opinion before I make my purchases. Thank you as always my friend :)
Rhodonite is beautiful, as long as you're prepared for the granulation turning a doe coat tan or buff as it oxidizes. :) It's LIGHTfast, but not colorfast.
S Rose Madder Lake is not fugitive, its listed as level 1, the highest lightfast rating Sennelier gives.
Oh this series is so much fun. Thank you for doing it💕
So glad you are liking this new series Rene! Thank you for watching it.
Please do fuchsite genuine! I’d love to see a comparison/alternatives
Your color is already in the works ;)
I just bought this color a few months ago because I felt like it was a perfect color for behind an egrets beak! I tried it from the DS dot chart. I don't use it too much but it is sparkly and so much fun! I can't wait to see your video on it.
Thank you very much for this series! And it came at a great time because I've been eyeing some primatek colours myself 😁
Aw I am so glad it's coming at a good time for you Aiman :) Thank you for watching!
i have a half pan and absolutely adore this color! Very interested in your lightfastness testing before I commit to a tube...
Me too! It is such a nice color, and I love it so much too.
I was going to say that i never experienced oxidisation or any of the granulation when i used Rhodonite but when i went to check the tube i got with the primatek set it turned out it was Quinacridone rose which i somehow missed when i was initially squeezing it out into a pan. I didn't already have Quin rose so maybe i was lucky to get it instead.
I wish I'd seen this a month ago when I bought this paint on a whim... I was really excited about it because I've seen many people swatch it out on youtube from the dot cards and the color is lovely. Unfortunately, I encountered the oxidation right away when I tested it out myself, and all my enthusiasm for the color went out the window. I primarily do botanical paintings, so my only real use for this color is maybe a dried or dying rose, which I don't find particularly inspiring. I also bought Sodalite Genuine when I purchased the Rhodonite, and it exceeded all of my expectations. I love the granulation, and the deep, dark blue hue. I can't wait to find out which other primatek colors are actually worth the money! Thank you very much for the video, and I'll definitely be tuning in for more of this series :)
Sodalite is one of my favourite primateks as well. It has such a wide range of values. So sorry that you had the browning as well :(
US states have a lot of official state things. Gemstones/minerals is definitely one of the more fun ones. : )
That info about the oxidization is really interesting. I actually knew that about rhodonite - but I somehow didn't make the connection. I agree that it definitely feels like the brand should have provided that kind of information - and I think it might be something interesting to work with, if you kept how it was going to age in mind deliberately. I actually kind of like the oxidation, but I certainly wouldn't be pleased with it as a surprise!
Super excited to see you run the next color through its paces as well. Thanks!
When I looked into all this US state official things, I was so impressed that you have so many! I think Japanese prefectures tend to have flowers and trees and that's it? So it's totally awesome that you guys go ALL OUT on your states!
I don't personally mind the oxidisation, and I really like the color. But yeah, it if is a surprise, I would be really bummed about it too.
Did we ever get to the bottom of the oxidation mystery? I now have 2, 5ml tubes of this color and I'm just feeling hesitant about even using it.
I was just considering getting rhodonite! This video came just in time haha
Do you think you will buy it?
Dr. Oto Kano Think I’ll head towards getting the alternatives instead! Not too sure about the oxidisation aspect of the paint:)
I don't blame you at all! Good decision.
I love this color so much, it's just so delicious.
Love this new series!!
So glad you like it Julia!
Thank you so much for these excellent reviews. I really appreciate them! :)
Hey Oto! I would suggest doing a shorter more intense light fastness test instead of over 6mo with normal light conditions. This would give the paint less time to oxidize and therefore might be a more true light fastness test because over time you might not be able to tell what change was from light and what change was from oxidation. Maybe also have one swatch cut off from oxygen and kept in a dark place while another is kept in the same dark place but allowed access to air to see what just oxidation does by itself? Also not every state has a gemstone. Some have really random stuff like state fossil, but not everyone has one!
Thanks Caitlin, I'll take your suggestions into consideration :)
I am fascinated by their primateks especially as a paint maker. I think when it comes to mineral colours there's a lot of variation which cant be controlled I have also seen varied effects from my own mineral paints I've made. It's terrible DS havent tested this pigment properly and warned about the oxidisation issue. I'm too scared to use this colour for this purpose at least when it comes to poor lightfastness in other paints I know how the paint will fade.
I totally understand where you are coming from Dan. I love this color but I have been too scared to use it in any piece so far.
Oh, I had the Rhodonite in the Primatek set and it's so lovely. I didn't use it a lot, but never saw the brown come through. Now I'm a little worried about it... but it could also be an interesting effect. Thank you for this video! There's just so much to learn. :)
So glad you like the Rhodonite as well. I really like the color, it is so pretty :)
I just got this for Christmas so I was curious. I'm wondering if perhaps sealing work made with this in something airtight will help keep it decent while waiting to be scanned? I'm going to try it with different types of water and see if that has any effect on the browning. I usually use tap that I've let sit out as that takes some of the hardness out of it. I guess I'll try bottled, fresh tap, and tap that's been sitting out. We'll see. The mixes are AMAZING. Especially with ultramarine blue, wow!
Hi thanks for another interesting review and comparison. I was wondering if the daily creative break videos were going to continue. I have missed them. When I didn’t see them I was really hoping that everything was going well and was happy to see that you were posting other things. Just wanted to let you know that they were useful to me and I have shared them with some friends.
Hi Spiroffd, yes, I am sorry I had to cut that series.... I'll copy and paste what I wrote on the day 8 video here:
I am really sorry but I am going to have to cut this series short. The low views to this series is seriously hurting this channel already, and I fear that if I keep going with it, the channel will take a lot of damage.
I really appreciate everyone taking part and you are so precious to me. Since I already have a year's worth of questions, I will continue to make a weekly post on Patreon (www.patreon.com/otokano) where low views won't affect anything. I realise this is not the same as a daily video, but it is for now the best solution I can think of. Perhaps further down the line I can create a second channel that is dedicated to these daily creative breaks.
Again, I am so sorry for having to cut this series short. I totally understand that it is a disappointment to those of you who have taken part in it so far. For that, I can only apologise.
Dr. Oto Kano I’m not quite sure how I missed that. I am disappointed, but completely understand. Again I wanted to thank you for taking the time to seriously address these issues. I do think that there is a real place for this within the art community as a whole and this small one in particular. As we all know you can have a ton of art supplies, but it’s truly the process of creating a piece of artwork that is what drives us. Everything that goes into and around that creative process is important. Including all of the ups, downs, emotional, financial ba
Battles. You were beginning to address all of that here. Thanks again.
If there's an oxidation problem, it's likely to show up right away. Especially in the thin washes since there's virtually no protection from the medium. The paint turning brown on the palette sounds suspicious to me, almost like someone put too much water on the palette in a brown color and contamination occurred. I also imagine the careless way some watercolor artists clean their brushes between colors might have something to do with it. Also, was there atmospheric pollution thick in the air? That can cause a color change real easily.
I was just thinking the same thing. Air isn't like light. Oxidation doesn't need 6 months to show up. If oxidation is an issue, it would've occurred during the mulling process when the mineral was first crushed and ground up into paint. Being tiny particles, the exposure to air would've had an immediate effect. I think the brown color that people see stem from the natural earthy bits that can be found on the actual rock. Artists aren't scientists and aren't necessarily creating the right controls to verify this oxidation, however what I've seen consistently in the comments is that some are seeing brown in their paint and some aren't. This tells me that what they're seeing is the variation of color that comes from a natural mineral. No 2 rocks are alike, and people are mistaking this as oxidization -- but if it were true that it oxidizes, then that browning would occur for everyone. Instead, we see that many who already have this paint aren't having any color shifting issues.
thank you so much for these series! i work with rhodonite watercolor for already a year, and i didn't have issues with it. i also have the crystal itself and i can see these grey-yellow-brown things in it. so maybe it is concerned with the crystal itself in nature?
Looking forward to independent lightfast results. Wonder what would happen if you put a swatch of rhodonite genuine in a drawer or closet shelf, away from light but in open air? Would oxidation change the color if a piece was left out vs being in a journal? (It's the curious experimenter in me coming out...) Thanks for another great video!
That's how I do lightfastness test anyway. Put one half on a window, the other half between a catalogue and put into a drawer. So we will see how it goes :)
If it's in a drawer with air touching it, yes it will oxidize. If you put it in an airtight bag and suck the air out enough it wouldn't oxidize. Maybe putting it between the pages of a book is enough to protect it, but just a drawer would absolutely not be enough if it's oxidation doing the discoloration
Thank you again, interesting review :D I had DS Rhodonite in my storage for a long time and once considered to put it on my travel palette cause it mixes quite well as you said. But those oxidisation issues always pushed me away from it. I guess i find more easier and beautiful quinacridones for they shine and vibrancy. And i think Senneliers Rose Madder Lake is really similar in tones with Rhodonite.
You are so welcome Tintti! Yes the sennelier Rose Madder Lake is really similar to Rhodonite. I was mistaken when I said in the video that the Sennelier Rose Madder Lake was fugitive. Another viewer pointed out to me that it is made with PV19 so very lightfast indeed!
I have this and its wonderful! Its a soft baby pink and doesn't get too dark. Mine has not changed color yet and doesn't have any brown granulation. it doesn't dry to a duller pink color like most other pinks. My 1st tube was slightly granulating with brownish flecks but not my 2nd tube. I have yet to see a Daniel Smith watercolor of any pigment that didn't have flecks in it now and then.They do not use super finely ground pigments. What kind of paper do you use for these tests?
hmmm, there are definitely plenty of transparent pinky colors that would do the job, and probably better. I don't hate the oxidization factor, I really enjoy paints that have unique and somewhat unpredictable qualities as long as I know what they are and can work with them instead of being surprised, however I feel like with this type of pink it doesn't make a ton of sense for too many applications. Maybe for wilting flowers or really desaturated styles? I'd really be interested in that quality in some earthy greens and reds, i think it could really add something cool to landscapes. Maybe.
I agree with you, this pink, as lovely as it is, does have limited uses. Shame really.
That color is lovely, but the browning kind of scares me off. And the mixes look soft and charming. Interested in what you find out.
I will let you know about the lightfastness thing :)
How was the lightfastness of this colour? And did it change colour wise?
As far as I know it does change color. It will become brown/copper. But not due to light but oxidisation so when exposed to air it will change color over time
I love my primateks. you make me want to buy it in tubes.
he he so glad you like them :D
Any update on the color change?
I just love this color but am so sad that it deteriorates. I was wondering if mixing it with other colors reduces the degradation? Or if there is a way to seal it to protect it from oxidation?
I'm sure a fixative should prevent it from oxidizing. Then again, not many people have seen this oxidation in their hung artwork. I suspect the oxidation is in the crystal itself. The reason I say that is bc the oxidation should've occurred during the mulling process when the mineral is crushed & exposed to the air. If it hadn't already oxidized by then, it's unlikely to oxidize later. The brown that people claim to see is actually the natural mineral characteristics. You can see these brown bits in the rock itself. This could be oxidation that occurred before it was mulled, but again, once it's oxidized then it's already browned & unlikely to brown further than it already has.
some company's do put permanence or colour shift info, for me I would go for a quin of even light magenta, thanks for your review
You are so welcome. I think that's a sensible option. Thank you for watching Ian :)
INTERRESTING! If this color were sealed, would that stop oxidation? It looks like a possible replacement for Opera, which is fugitive. Thanks much for your reviews!
Handprint says quin rose rates 7,8… I mean, it’s not bad but it turns me off. I’m looking into rhodonite as a perfect lightfastness substitute.
Its such a lovely color a lil sad that it changes to a brown color
Weird - I chose to repurchase this specifically because mine granulated...?!
Yes I think this color granulates too. But on their website they say non-granulating, which had me miffed too.
As beautiful as Rhodonite is, it fades. It's the only one of the Primatek line I'd pass on. Thanks for this video.