Aluminium Hawse vs Roller Fairlead for 4x4 Winching
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 13 พ.ย. 2020
- In this episode, we compare the aluminium hawse and roller fairlead for 4x4 winching. Do they work for high fleet angles and what about additional load?
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Has the testing changed your mind? Will you now be swapping over from one to the other? Let us know below!
Before watching, I'd be going for the Hawse.
What about this as a topic for a future series:- How to build a 4x4 for touring (not rock climbing) that is as LIGHT as possible? How to strip non essential items and replace overly heavy accessories with lighter counterparts from your tourer without compromising safety and reliability.
After watching, I'd still go for the Hawse and perhaps find some dry lube for it.
@@BenMitro I think after the second round of testing, epecially if I can get those roller rolling, I'll swap the Zook over to a Roller. I'm still thinking about the 80, maybe a different design roller would suit.
No. I am comfortable with the very small number of times I might actually need to use my winch in this fashion that the load is not that much of an issue.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing good plan
Rollers all the way. This is purely a function of the roller diameters and minimum radiuses. You cannot 'lube' that away for the hawse. The heat generated by the small radius of current hawse FH's will ruin your ropes.
Orient the recovery rig proper and change directions with additional proper gear if required.
Great video as always. Keep up the great work. I really enjoyed the test you did on the Snatch Blocks.
Thanks!
Well done Simon, great video.
Thanks mate, I look forward to your next video as well!
Thanks Simon , another great informative vid , thanks mate cheers from Wagga
Thanks, glad you liked it!
great video simon 👌
Cheers! Glad you liked it.
i feel the difference between the roller and the hawse at 8 minutes may also be due to the larger turn radius of the steel, there are several company making hawse fair leads with a much larger exit radius to try and increase that efficiency in extreme situations like that.
I think that may be a contributing factor.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing may be? More heat generated by a non-rolling, small radius IS the main issue. :)
There's yer friction. Been doing this since the 80's
Great vid, and part 2 can't arrive soon enough.
Thanks!
What an interesting vid, great data! Thanks mate for the upload. Give us a shout if you're up in QLD at some point!!
Thanks!
Nice video as always. Bringing that bit of science and logic to the game.
Just be careful with your graphs your making 26% difference look like a 500%.
Yep, I hate it when people misrepresent the data by manipulating the way graphs etc look, that's why I made a point of letting people know at the start of the graph about the range and put figures and percentages at the top of each bar on the graph. Transparency of the information in the videos is very important to us here at LYH4WDing.
Look forward to part 2. I expected the roller actually to perform than it did TBH.
Hopefully we can get them actually rolling next time!
Good video, you can actually get urethane rollers for the roller fairlead which would mitigate the weight issue slightly. The thing I like about the hawse is that the friction surface is fairly well protected, whereas with a roller the friction surface is the leading edge, even in a bullbar designed for it, and if you get a nick or gouge in that surface, it will tear your rope apart under load.
It's important not use a roller that's already been used with wire, with synthetic. I might loom into the urethane rollers, thanks!
Spoiler:
Nicks aside; It is more about the larger radius of the rollers which makes them better with respect to rope wear.
Well you made me a happy man as I thought I was the only dumb bunny to have a roller fairlead to look after my Dyneema Rope. It just made sense to me as in my mind, that extra drag mast be going somewhere, and I figure it is being transferred to the rope via abrasion? I wanna see your next vid. Cheers mate.
After round 2 of the testing (where I try to get those darn rollers rolling under heavy load) both my 4WDs will end up sporting rollers, I'm pretty sure.
Good video. I'll be sticking to my alloy plate. Hopefully I don't need it too often.
Thanks, if you ever feel like winching, I can point out some tracks! :)
@@LockyourHubs4WDing sounds like another video.
For me, it was an easy decision. My winch, an early Aldi model, has an unusually wide drum and the roller fairlead that came with the winch was badly damaged during a recovery. I've not been able to find a roller fairlead with a wide enough opening, whereas modifying an offset aluminium hawse to suit was fairly simple. For the rare occasion that I use a winch these days, the extra loading doesn't really bother me.
I agree, if you only have the winch there on the off chance you might need it one day and don't intentionally drive terrain that might see you stuck, I would probably stick with the hawse as well if it was already installed.
Great informative vid. Roll on part 2 ;) So is there any better brand of roller fairlead than another? as I have an Ironman 12,000lb winch on an Ironman bullbar.
That I'm not sure of, I've had a supplier contact me, wanting to add their surface treated failead into the mix, so as soon as that arrived, I'll make a start in part 2.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Cool, I look forward to seeing it ;) thanks.
8:44 Did you ever do the follow up video to this?
The wire rope should get the rollers moving. My fairlead rollers are marked up from the cable strands right around their circumference from side load winch pulls. Try marking the rollers with black & white sections on them so you can film them better.
That's a great idea! Thanks.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing P.S I'll be sticking to wire rope & roller fairleads on all my WARN 4x4, SxS & ATV winches, The only place for Dyneema is on my fishing reels.
@@dustyfarmer interesting, I swapped over to synthetic rope on all of mine. Why don't you like it?
100% my cable makes the rollers move. But moved to rope now and had to swap it out, but was super happy as I saved 15kg+ going to rope and swapping the roller out
@@LockyourHubs4WDingSynthetic rope suffers U.V degradation which leads to breakage, lack of abrasion resistance over rocks or sharp edges, lack of line length carried compared to cable & wire cable lasts longer, costs less & is just better in every way.
As others have said, I'd like to see how you go with a thicker hawse that has a larger internal radius.
There's a quality American brand that does a very nice hawse in 2 different thicknesses with a sort of "slippery" coating. Im pretty sure you know the brand im thinking of.
id be interested to see if results vary based on hawse thickness.
I would like to compare the hard anodized teflon impregnated coating vs the cerecote anti-friction coating when that becomes avaliable.
Do you think that the coefficient of friction is the only explanation. I’m wondering if the radius of the roller vs the hawse may also have something to do with the additional load. I’m really curious because I’m thinking a steel hawse may be a consideration if it’s down to coefficient of friction.
Co-efficient of friction, length of contact and the surface finish will all have a bearing on frictional losses. The minimum bend radius will have a bearing especially on the wear on the rope, the more generious the better in my book.
Has anyone used the roller fairlead made for synthetic rope? I’m just using to plow
Interesting....
I'm wondering if the soild horse had the same bigger radius if the kgs added would be the same.
On a trip away a new line looked melted after one use. I'm wondering if the tighter radius adds more friction to a smaller area and hence more heat.
Seen others run rollers and the rope looked like new after many uses...
Even with a larger radius on the hawse, the friction I assume would still be higher than a rolling element, add to that the additional coefficient of friction of aluminium vs steel and the Hawse is always going to be worse off.
@LockyourHubs4WDing would be a interesting comparison 🤔 but science could already give the difference. The real world values are more interesting.
Some also say the colour coatings make it better some also say worse. The worse is my assumption from the acid part making the surface textured.
It's also interesting that the roller does not turn... the friction is one direction so the roller not turning from the load is weird. You would assume it's direction if drawn as a vector would be to the centre of the roller or close to.
They might have turned, but would need some black stripes to show definitely.
My steel wire turns them but seem only when it also leaves marks/imprints of the wire strands.
I paused the video and I'm predicting the Hawse will add more load, because there is no roller, turning with the rope. I hope it's not significant, because I would rather have the Hawse.
Keep watching! And let me know what you think after watching the results so far.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing After watching the rest of the video, I'll probably keep what I already have, and that's roller Fairlead.
@@CamperKev Yep, after round two of testing I think both of mine will eventually get swapped over to roller fairleads
No hasn’t changed my mind at all because unfortunately your test has missed the whole concept of why the Hawse aluminium was designed. “Pinch points” .... this is the sole reason in its initial design years ago when rope was introduced. The roller fair lead literally renders the rope unserviceable & unusable if line pull happens in the corners.
In competition steel hawse have been used & also polished both alloy & steel with steel being chrome plated being very common in Winch truck fraternity to reduce friction as companies like Gigglepin supply with the winches.
So I don’t mean to discredit your video but you have missed the reason for point of difference.
That was the very point of the video! The rope was deliberately run right in the corner to put that miconception to bed once and for all.
That was a pull running 90 degrees to the winch straight down a steep hill (about 35 degrees). And it didn't even look like pinching the rope, even though the rollers were static.
That's probably worse than you'll encounter in the field. I knew it wouldn't bind (I've been involved in similar testing before) but was primarily interested it if hawse was going to use more energy than the rollers.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing sorry mate not trying to discredit you but not at any point did I see in the vid the rope pulling in the corner, near it yes but not buried in the corner.
If rollers & rope was fine then the hawse mouth would never have been created as my experience in competition if you can reduce frictional load you go for it. But it’s horses for courses & if you run rope you take the efficiency loss & gain the safety benefit in not risky destroying the rope.
I’ve seen rope get sucked in between rollers under load it was game over on the Recovery & had to cut rope out & the ability to self recover was gone.
But your video definitely shows the reduced efficiency factor but I think it could be improved with a polished or chrome plated hawse.
Another factor that creates greater loading is the radius point. The rollers diameter would help this as well.
But that’s all I’ll comment. Good vid though & shows a factor that probably many wouldn’t have realised for sure 👍
While I like the concept unfortunately I think the testing needs more depth, not all Hawses are created equal with many different bend radii, thickness and surface coatings, Equally there are a number of roller fairleads that will catch out the untrained, be good to show this side too. Plus I don't think you looked at just how much winch rope you could actually load on that side of the drum before it would foul. Thumbs up for me but ill be looking for part 2..
Binding, of course might be an issue, especially if you don't get down to the bottom layer on the drum. There are some hard anodised coatings avaliable and one in particular (not released as yet I believe) cerecote coated hawse I'm interested in testing as part of round 2.
@@LockyourHubs4WDing Catch up with me I'll organise a sample.
Cheers!