HIS101 - From IE to OE
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ต.ค. 2012
- This E-Lecture deals with the development from Indo-European to Old English with special emphasis on the grouping of English into the branches of Indo-European. The focus is historical rather than linguistic. However, in order to understand the linguistic principles underlying this development, it is recommended to consult the E-Lecture "Language Reconstruction" first.
This person's accent is spectacular.
Not for someone who has heard Germans speaking other languages than their own before.
Very nice presentation! Thank you...This is one of my favorite topics since taking German in high school long ago. It seemed so obvious as a 9th grade student that German-English words still "ring" the same when using words of family-relations, body parts, simple action verbs and nouns that have been around for thousands of years such as bread, beer and apples.
As a child I would spent any chance I had comparing the varied translations accompanying instructions on items imported to the USA that had found their way into our home. Included were the Germania languages, the Latin ,the Magyar and such. My interest was natural and keen as was that my early fascination and grasp of ancient history, anthropology, archeology and things I refer to as the ripples of the ebb and flow of mankind.
Unfortunately I was early on convinced, or coerced into believing that I was "not college" material by a very troubled man, my father. I ended up drinking and drugging decades away but today at 63 am grateful for that grasp that has persisted and finds me in very good company as I further explore the efforts of those who were encouraged rather than suppressed.
I'm glad to find that much of what is presented in the is quite familiar to me, including the squabbles concerning PIE points of supposed origin. We speculate as is our nature but that is best done when emotions and national, cultural biases are set aside.
Thank you, and all who post for providing a joy, for that seven year old kid now grown, in seeing you who persisted.
Tsree.mahkah.see from Bon Air, Virginia - which I hereby assert and assign as being ground zero for PIE!
(You guys used up all the Germanic 'Thank you's')
Just found this treasure trove of linguistic studies..so happy!
wonderful thank you so much. will keep on watching and try and learn this old language.
“e-lecture” …lol. I love our early tech vocabulary.
Very interesting presentation. Thank you for sharing 🙏
You're absolutely right. But for reasons of didactic simplification we only mentioned the central non-IE languages in the video. A complete list would have to include Turkish, Tatar, the Sa(a)mi varieties used in Finland, Cypriotic Arabic, and the Kartvelian languages in the Caucasus: for an overview lecture, far too many. But we still have our in-class meetings....
Well..Very Good education channel. Linguistic trough History so be explicit, Well done Prof Handke. Danke .!
Sugar Cane Thanks, we try our best.
Jv
Found it! ... from the online etymology dictionary: c.1300, from Old French bataille "battle, single combat," also "inner turmoil, harsh circumstances; army, body of soldiers," from Late Latin battualia "exercise of soldiers and gladiators in fighting and fencing," from Latin battuere "to beat, to strike" (see batter (v.)). Phrase battle royal "fight involving several combatants" is from 1670s.
thanks for the great lecture series
Treta,this is very useful,to learn free at home.thanks
Just stumbled across this. Very interesting presentation and I appreciate your usage of 'Before Christ' instead of the pretentious BCE. Hope you are well!
Why do you have a graphic showing the discredited Anatolian origin theory of indo European in the lecture. Even the lecturer doesn't say that. The theory of the origin of indo European in eastern Europe (Ukraine) is the consensus theory and supported by the overwhelming weight of evidence. The Anatolian hypothesis of Colin Renfrew is completely refuted by the wheel archeological horizon and the presence of cognate wheel technology vocabulary in all Indo European languages.
I'd argue that Proto-Germanic had a wider scope into central Europe than he indicated as well. By the time of Christ their territory would have had to have extended into the Swiss Alps.
He says "words pertaining to the sea and battle were introduced first". So, not the words "sea" and "battle" themselves but words that have to do with such things.
Btw, the word "kamp" in Scandinavian is actually a loanword from Low German which in turn borrowed it from the Latin "campus".
I'm glad to find this video! Most of these things I already knew but it's good to have a little repetition. I'll definitely have a look at other videos on this channel as well.
I'd like to give a little nitpick, not really relevant to the topic but since it did come up: There are actually more Uralic languages in Europe. Hungarian, Finnish and Estonian are just the only ones that are used as state languages. But I know that this lecture is not the place to talk about Uralic minorities.
good presentation! thanks!!
You forgot Manx. That's Gaelic spoken on the Isle of Man. These lectures are great though. They've been a fantastic help in my revision on this topic.
This is well done.
18:08 Actually, Christianity was driven into Celtic fringe and if Mercia was part of it evn out of parts of that, and reintroduced AFTER conquest was done, by St Augustine of Canterbury, sent by Pope Gregory I.
This means, Latin was introduced a second time, as a foreign language - but not by the invaders during invasion.
Very informative.
love linguistics!!
Herzlichen Dank für diese Vorlesung und Ihre ausgezeichnete Arbeit hier überhaupt. In einem anderen VLC Video erfuhr ich, dass das Altenglische einen instrumentalen Fall hatte. War es auch so im auf dem Festland gesprochenen Altsächsischen?
Merci, Danke, Met Dank, Tack, Takk, Thanks... :)
+M.T.G Grazie.
Tak ;-)
I don't want to make an issue out of this, but saying 'met dank' in Dutch sounds very odd. We usually say 'bedankt', or (very formally), 'hartelijk dank', and this expression is mostly reserved for mailing.
@@Jotizs I was so young when I wrote that, now I am too old to care.
4:50 he says by jacob grimm's law we recognize language families like this : in germanic family letters v and f changed to b for brother and bruder....now i say did you know that in persian(iran) the word for brother is baraadar and in provincial areas of iran is beraader or braader, very similar to british brother and german bruder...so by that jacob grimm's rule, is persian language in germanic family ?!...may be , because pronunciation of word "year" in avestan persian and german and dutch is yaar ! (yaare , jahr ,jaar)
Wait, it may seem he says that, but in reality is talking about PI sound */bh/. Of course, */bh/ turns into /b/ both in Farsi and in germanic languages, but that doesn't make them belong to the same group. What about the word for "father"? Does the first consonant also in Farsi change from /p/ into /f/ or it stays /p/? Guess it stays /p/, right? ;)
How does one differentiate between the Angles and Jutes and the Danes.
Looter92 The same way you'd differentiate between a Spartan and an Athenian.
Looter92 Danes are the present day population of all of Denmark, who are mainly descended from
Jutish ( from Jutland in the West of Denmark), Anglian ( Southern Jutland, Scheleswig ), Frisians ( South West Jutland), Saxon ( Holstein / Holsten ) and Danian tribes ( the latter originally from Southern Sweden ) in the East of DK - and
Southern Sweden ( although they are part of Sweden now ) .
But basically there isn't much difference - they were similar Germanic cultures with closely related languages. The Anglo-Saxons, Jutes and Frisians invaded Britain from ca. 450 and onwards, settled and founded several kingdoms ( at least 7 ) and spoke various West Germanic languages or dielects. The Danes in this respect refer to the Vikings who arrived from roughly the same shores with a now North Germanic language about 350-400 years later. The Germanic branches had split up only a few centuries earlier, so they could still communicate to some degree with the A,S, F & J, since many basic words were still very similar.
+Looter92 It has not really been proven that the Jutes were from Jutland. In Old English the Jutes were called Eotas, and were probably a Saxon tribe that'd been influenced by the Franks. The Angles were West Germanic like the Jutes, and the Danes were North Germanic. However, because the Angles (English) were the most northerly of the west germanic tribal groups, they were probably influenced by the Danes, and vice-versa.
@@markusass The Angles' and Nord Frisians' dialects were very close back then. They had a LOT of common words. There was substantial influence of Danish on Angelsc and Nord Friesisch and influence from both of them on Danish - especially the Danish dialects that would develop later in Jutland (Jysk).
@@markusass Good point. Angelsc and Juttish (Jysk) certainly had an influence on Danish. About 250 northern Plaatdeutsch vocabulary words were added into Dansk during the hundred or so years after The Kingdom of Danmark conquered Jutland. That is one of the main reasons why Danish has a larger and more varied vocabulary than Norwegian.
Stem from, or is cognate with ? I'm guessing the second.
it's very minor thing but quite surprising for me - I though brother in Greek was adelphos. when did it change and where did come from?
Hmmm I wonder if "battle" is not only from French "bataille" but that both words are some sort of Norman or North Men word? Just curious.
A good overview, with a few mistakes, and at least one controversial point presented as settled. :)
Thank
Why no reference to Scots which is significantly closer to Frisian and Dutch?
Good point. Scots had less influence from the more southern Low Saxon dialects, and Jutish, who settled in England's southeast, while Northumbria and lowland southeastern Scotland was settled mostly by The Angles and Nord Fries. Scots has a lot more Old Frisian vocabulary words than standard English, as well as retaining more of the sound elements of Frisian (many that also remain in Dutch) that have been dropped when Old English evolved into Middle English.
9:56 East Frisian is a Saxon dialect. It is called Frisian but it is not actually Frisian.
That is correct, but FRIES means also a STORY which never ENDS like 'designs' in a COMIC, since STRING means in Dutch 'onderbroek' what means 'CARNAVAL (i.c. 'onderbroekenlol'). So, look at the molecules on Wikipedia: luteoline, quercetine and rutine. You see 'the three LAMBS'.
I'm afraid you forgot turkish (Altaic) and Maltese (Afro-asiatic). A question: is Yiddish a Germanic or a Semetic Language?
Yiddish is a Germanic language with a significant percentage of Northwest Semitic (Hebrew and some Aramaic) loan words. It doesn't have much Semitic influence on its grammar.
Similarly, I'd like to know how Spanish ended up with "hermano." I know it has the word "fraternal."
What do you mean by "oldest language in the world"? That the ancestors of Basques began to speak earlier than anyone else tens of thousands years ago? I doubt if science will ever be able to tell that for sure.
He means that Basque has changed very little over the centuries. It is believed to also be the last remainder of a language family, that is now extinct otherwise.
I would submit that Welsh had more of an influence than mentioned in this video. John McWhorter, in "Our Bastard Tongue," hypothesizes that the syntactic form encompassed by the use of "do," as in "Do you want to go?" or "I don't (do not) want a drink" are directly descended from the Welsh use of "dw," as in "Dw i ddim isio diod," or "I 'don't' want a drink." The fact that English moved away from the syntactic form "I want not a drink," a form much more common in the Germanic languages, to utilize its Celtic cousin's form is not insignificant in the modern language's history.
Hairmetallurgist I’ve seen some of these proposed examples of Celtic influence and I find them shaky at best. First, I would ask why the influence would be restricted to grammar and virtually no words (other languages which definitely influenced English grammar like Old Norse also left very clear influences on vocabulary) and second, many of the examples given of supposed influence are not convincing. For example, the use of “do” in questions, etc didn’t begin until the Middle English period. If this was influenced by the speech of the pre-Saxon inhabitants of England, you’d expect it to have become used much earlier than that, not hundreds of years after English was already established as the mother tongue.
Finnish, estonian, basque and hungarian. Just keeping this interactive xD
Seriously? Hungary? Not Persian? What like Anatolia...is that Carian migration from Middle America 40,000bc and from Australia before that? And the thing is...Today's mainstream image of Finnish isn't an accurate depiction of that area 25,000bc, unless we're being misled regarding the test result timeline. I wouldn't be surprised. The fact is Finnish were not white. White skin wasn't made available until 7,000bc; and even then only for Ancient Ireland whom preferred the thaw over cannibalism; and slowly spread to Scotland and Norway's southern coastline after 6,000bc. So nevermind 25,000 years; I want to know where this female lineage was at 5,000bc, 4,000bc, 3,000bc ...etc. Also, Finn can be Mongol Asian or Native American Green Race thru Norway or possibly Sami something (idk?); and before Asia, this female lineage would have come thru India on its way from Australia's original location. Both lines from Australia, Bone wing from Atlantis Antarctica, and the firstborn son of Divine alpha Collins dropped off from a UFO onto ancient Ireland 8,ooo years ago who took over the world. Jesus was an only son.
There is the Sami language as well. It's Uralic, like Finnish and Estonian.
Put down the turpentine! See what it's done to your brain? (it's in even worse shape than it was before you started huffing solvents!) LOL!
@@traviscollins830 "Divine alpha Collins
YESS 100% I dont need these classes pfffft
I only used Frisian from the German town Leer as an example to show its similarties with PDE. I did not say anything about the situation of Frisian in general, which, by the way is also spoken on the North-Frisian Islands in Germany where you find sth. like 10,000 speakers. But thanks for your comment anyway.
Do many people speak pure Fries in Leer? Their dialect there seems to me to be a Plaatdeutsch dialect mix of more Low Saxon with less Frisian words, not nearly as pure as Noardfrysk and Westfrysk. And aren't The Saterland Enclave Eastfrysk speakers mostly in the farm country east of Leer? And aren't they mostly old people now?
Funnily enough, as a native 'English' speaker (American, bit different), at 12:10ish, i didn't know the example words you choose until you said then in German. It looked, and sounded like slip, it, & make, written in a weird way and spoken with an accent.
Would have been clearer to write them properly.
Oy, another wierd standard snob. They were not written properly, because they weren't written in English. THAT was the point. Not to trigger your snobbery over some incomprehensible scrawl that makes no sense without training on/in it. I'm sure it performs a task, and if it does what you want it to, great. But you knew what I mean, there was no point to your comment. (for the record, I am aware of what it was written with, again, that was the point I was making - don't use that, use English spelling, then there'd be no confusion, or use both even)
Strange, how my language (Frisian) still has really many simularities, sometimes english people even understand what were talking about.
Wêrom, fynst dat frjemd? Old English and Old Fries are sister languages. A Frisian or Dutchman who has learned no modern English could easily understand Old English. You could read and enjoy "Beowulf" in its original text with little problem.
Anatolia??? wrong...
I came across a theory somewhere that the Britons living in what is now south-eastern and central England spoke Belgic, which is the Germanic language spoken by the Belgae, who where otherwise culturally Celtic in terms of religion, dress and other customs. When the Anglo-Saxons invaded, they were few in number, but the Belgic speaking Britons readily adopted the Anglo-Saxon language because it was so similar. Has any one else encountered this theory and do you think it's credible?
this theory fits my geographic observations. Warrior King Royalty began with Scottish people, "Haplogroup I", in the Year 6,000 bc and hightailed it down and across the map. Land bridge from briton connects a strait path more or less to Rome
Possibly. I don't know enough about it to be very credible, but to my knowledge, native Britons weren't particularly renown for their sea-faring and certainly had little to no dealings with peoples on the continent until the migration period. But as far as I know the Belgae could have had a veeeeery early common mother tongue coming from a time when east Britain and Belgium/Frisia/Netherlands were connected via Doggerland. Any similarities in native languages between the Britons and the Belgae, I imagine, would have come from that time. But I'm just speculating.
Not creditable. Current theory is the Belgae ruled southern England as a warrior elite and soon adopted the local Celtic language. In later Roman times many Saxons and other Germanic peoples were brought to Britain as auxiliary troops, often with their families. It is possible that, once Roman rule collapsed and the native Britons brought in more Germanic mercenaries, the resident Germanics swoped sides.
Geoff Boxell Oh: forgot to add Lecturer in Old Engish History, University of Waikato, retired.
It is credible considering I have also heard this theory in Stephen Oppenheimer's book - The Origins of the British. He discusses, using genetic data and historical sources, the possibility that germanic languages were spoken in Britain (specifically South Eastern Britain) in pre-Roman times, more specifically from the Iron Age I think.
"germanic" term was invented by Julius Caesar when he wrote their memories and chronicles.
4:33 Atta, attas, ojciec, tevas ...
Romani and Basque
Paused the video at 2:54, I say: Basque maybe? :O
Basque(Euskara), Finnish, Hungarian
Plus Turkish, Tatar, Georgian, Ossetian, Chechen Chuvas, Abkhaz,Azeri, Hebrew, Sami, Komi, Nenets, Mari, Mansi,Khanti, Udmurt. Maltanese aren't indo-european as well
John Aybier Ossetian is indo-iranian/indo-europian.
So is Turkish, Tatar, Georgian, Hebrew (which isnt native to Europe anyway) and idk about the others.
Basque, the Uralic languages, the Caucasian languages, and some Mongolic and Semitic languages spoken by foreigners.
I would disagree that "battle" comes from Scandinavian. I speak Norwegian and the word for battle is "kamp". I would have thought battle comes from French bataille
Polish, Czech, Belarusian, and Slovakian are Slavic languages. Austrians speak German, and Hungarian is Uralic (there is no Austrio-Hungarian language). I don't know any credible academic source that would give any support to your claim.
Fail. The example of Frisian is not Frisian at all, it is East Frisian Low Saxon, which is a Low German dialect, not Frisian at all. The Frisian languages are much more similar to English.
Jesper Engelbrektsson;
would disagree that "battle" comes from Scandinavian. I speak Norwegian and the word for battle is "kamp". I would have thought battle comes from French bataille
I think "kamp" is like German "Kampf" that means "fight" not "battle". Battle means in German "Schlacht" which sonds like Norwegian "slag"
jewie mcdreidelheeb Finally, Half Life 3 confirmed.
+Hh Xsx "kamp" is probably of German origin ( Kampf) - you shouldn't confuse
present day Norwegian with Old Norse, although there are of course many links.
+Hh Sxx Yeah, not quite sure where he got that from. "Battle" comes to English from Latin (battuere- to beat) via French (bataille). Old English had the word "feohtan" for fight, but when the Normans invaded and won, their word for the conflict was used.
PacificRimNZ: "Cart" is not a Celtic word either. "Car" might be though.
god
It's a Germanic language with a lot of Semitic vocabulary. It has a kind of a Semitic substratum, I guess you could say? Or is it adstratum? I'm not sure.
Also, good point there about Turkish and Maltese!
Germanic.
no one migrated. The Scotish took over the map; First they went all the way to India, and then backtracked to arrive in Syria and set up the largest ever city-state called Ebla in 5,500 bc, which is right around when "I-E" language happened. After that no migrations, the lucky wealthy elites were relocated into Germany, poland, france, Greece, italy
Are you one of those "conspiritards" that the likes of Cool Hard Logic talk about?
I'm not a conspiritard, I'm a complainist.
I assume that you are joking, yes? A reference to the DNA family history services trying to tell more than is possible with haplogroup data. Ebla was founded by Northwest Semitic Amorites during the 4th Millenium BC.
MrViTopol, I think you're reading too much into things. I think that the instances you bring up are really just coincidences rather than actual cognates and borrowings. Your bias is showing.
First off, in the name of self defense, priority is Self preservation, bias is the least to be expected. The problem is one cannot be trusted to be telling the truth. I can't count how many times "The People" have tried to kill me ...literally, countless times. All of the observations only fit one ideal scenario, which is the only thing suspiciously missing from the nightmare establishment which you defend. It doesn't matter what you think. It's the smartest answer on the table...by far; either the powers shift, or they don't. No use worrying weather you agree with fate or not?