I just want to say I really appreciate the sheer volume of class videos you've been putting out even if I hate what the video has in it (I'm looking at you Dark Ranger and what you've done to MM!)
Love the videos, - Always fun to dig into the classes a bit, and I think you do a great job talking through each one. I have a couple thoughts on the MM side, I've played a bit of MM in my time, and think you may have missed one or two things, so just friendly discussion here! Firstly, you mention Rapid Fire is our main way to regen focus, and I think this is true on live. This is due to the current tier set leaning heavily into Rapid fire (double shot quantity, plus surging shots resets). I believe that haste is going to be the primary way to regen focus for MM early in the expansion for Dark Ranger. There are some talents that you have not chosen in the MM tree for this - In the Rhythm, and Steady focus. The build for Dark ranger seems to rely much more on funnel damage through kill shot and aimed shot. Additionally, the dark ranger tree adds in focus regen through the Shadow Assassin choice node. Notice that nowhere in the tree does it give multi-shot additional damage, and I think this is on purpose, because It’s incentivizing you to press multi-shot only once every 6 seconds. Notice also that during Trueshot you are hastening black arrow to cause additional procs, which funnels into additional kill shot procs, and aimed shot resets which equal Focus. Keep in mind, less multi-shots=more focus also (multi shot is 20 focus, where kill shot is 10). I do believe the goal Blizzard is going for with the Dark Ranger build is to stop pressing as many multi-shots, and use Rapid fire as a focus generator, but also a haste generator (similar to Eye Beam for Havoc DH). From there, the rotation relies on Kill shot and volley for trick shots, and allows you to take the Heavy/Light ammo node if you need to get to salvo. Down the right side of the tree you can get to a few different interesting talents - Wailing arrow (shadow dmg, aoe) which reduces the reliance again on Multi shot, and Lock and Load which also reduces the reliance on focus, and is based on haste also (8% AA proc). Lastly, I think we’ll have to see how it all plays out, but I think there could be scenarios especially in M+ where you take Calling the Shots for additional Trueshot reduction. We see no problem with focus in Trueshot windows. We also will have to see what the Tier set bonus is for MM, because that could play heavily into how the builds shape up. Just another smaller note, I take hydras bite in this build, to spread serpent sting to multi target. I will attach a possible build for this below: www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/hunter/marksmanship/DAOAJGVCYAhCShkFQCVENVFJJSUQWRUCRQBE For a potential opener in AOE you could do: Wailing arrow>Explosive shot>SS>SS>multi shot>Trueshot>Black arrow>Kill shot>Rapid Fire>Salvo/Volley>Aimed shot>Aimed shot>kill shot>aimed shot>multi shot From there you fill with Aimed shots, with Kill Shot on cooldown when it procs off Black Arrow. It funnels huge priority damage, and is reliant on the black arrow target staying alive, but it fills a different type of build than previous MM builds. I think Dark ranger works much better in single target, with cleave AOE. My main takeaways are that Haste is the main Focus Generator, from double steady shot and Rapid fire with “In the Rhythm”. Let me know your thoughts, and maybe you could try this out on Alpha! Keep the videos coming, and let me know what you think!
with the bm tree restructure that happened since this video, the bestial wrath giving barbed shot charges is much harder to take and makes it a bit harder to keep frenzy up, and might be hard to keep up with low haste at the start of the expansion
shouldve made dark ranger a sv thing with its resets and playing around WF bombs, and for animation it can just shoot black arrow out like SV does with serpent sting with its crossbow, it would have been one the most fun specs in the game with that
@@GhostonTH-cam201x the only spell dark ranger has is black arrow. A dot like serpent sting, something survival already has, you can use the same exact small crossbow animation. Survival has explosive shot too. It works.
Dark ranger should have summoned skeletons instead of animals, like the WC3 heroes. Instead of different animals it could be skeletal warrior, archer and mage
MM main here Focus isn’t actually an issue for MM because you can generate it whenever you want with steady shot; making black arrow reset or rapid fire would be too strong, as rapid fire is by far MMs strongest ability Honesty I would rather it have a chance to buff your next arcane shot/ multi shot, since it’s a button we use naturally in our rotation that isn’t too expensive
Are you guys kidding aim shot is one of the most highest damaging skills its so much better than some tiny barbed shot reset. You guys should be trolling..
Also MM main here, middle of the line 2.6k m+ 1.9k soloq pvp. Focus isn't a massive issue at the moment, but extra Aimed Shots could definitely become a problem, since even now using all Precise Shots drains focus heavily and you must use Steady Shot to refill it, which is absolutely fine, because you're doing it while waiting Aimed Shot/Rapid Fire to come off cd. It's a very balanced flow. Adding extra Aimed Shots now would mean having to occasionally skip on Precise Shots, so you wouldn't overcap Aimed Shots, which is okay, but it shouldn't be a thing in regular rotation. Buffing Arcane/Multi makes no sense, because there's already a talent that hastens Black Arrow during Trueshot and we barely use these abilities during Trueshot anyways, unless it's AoE and we don't have our current tier, which I must say whoever made it is an absolutely tremendous specimen with a jawline sculpted by the Gods. In short my solution to this is to delete the hunter class entirely and call it a day. We won't be missed, especially you BM mains.
Hunter hero trees are a mess. They’re definitely bottom of the barrel, minimal effort. It’s like they forgot and remembered “oh yeah. Hunter needs some trees”. I mean what a boring tree and boring interaction, not to mention the CC abilities are pretty much useless, DK got way better CC in their tree compared to this
They're purposely trying to keep the class extremely simple since legion. Blizzard has decided that hunter is the new player friendly "can't mess up" class
It's time wow players wake up and realise that passive interaction is fine. It can be exciting still. Not only that but passive isn't always so passive. You gotta think of how they proc and how it interacts with active button presses. Passives put the actual brain into active skills. But nah you all think it's dumb cause you don't press a button. Look at Ret Paladin and enhancement shaman. Perfect example of weaving passive effects effectively with active buttons. But not only that BM is supposed to be as passive as possible. I don't know if you noticed but BM is massively popular. There always has to be a set-it-and-forget-it spec. Some just enjoy going around pew pew'ing everything while enjoying the vistas with cool pets. It can't all be arcane mage.
Not super excited for this one, EXCEPT I hate losing stacks and it's hard for my old ass to keep them on DF. So at least there's that. Also I missed having black arrow and explosive shot from way back in classic, so at least part is back
In this specific instance I think your wrong, for BM it’s perfectly fine. You need to know that people who play bm are either lazy or just average joes who won’t be pushing keys or high raid. It’s a simple spec with simplicity as its main focus it doesn’t need to change honestly. As for mm if you play your cards right, your just getting more of your strongest spell in single target, it’s not the most fun or complex but it’s not bad either
Getting more Aimed Shot's is obviously fantastic... I'm wondering about the resource sustain though? Do you think you can keep up your Focus while getting Aimed Shot resets so often?
@@ZucoWoW hey you made an excellent point during the video and yes I do agree that they could have had a better way of making it so that we get some resources back while getting a stack of aimed shot, I just felt like during a high key or during a raid, I can see people using steady shot and same global black arrow to guarantee an aimed shot afterwards
Tbh I disagree with BM being the easiest spec sure you can move around while hitting, but its so much more gcd focused than other classes resulting a high skill cap with less buttons.. building up on this concept. I mean look at the video a pro bm would have not missed all those kill commands (at least 20+ of those were missed) and dps loss build up through a fight significantly. I think you can get what I mean..
@@cankural2501 you make a nice point but I’m sorry my man your just wrong, there isn’t an easier spec to play in the game even if you truly believe that it takes a lot of skill to get globals properly. It’s a nice conversion to have and I’d gladly have it but as a a booster and boosting raid leader Iv played and tried every spec at its highest level, imo there isn’t a easier spec than Beast mastery hunter and I challenge anyone to find me an easier spec haha
@@njavrg.9100 friend, maybe Im misunderstood we are not talking about gameplay simplicity(ofc 3 button with unlimited mobility..) we are talking about min-maxing the dps. It just revolves around not missing kill command so much, with cd reductions.. Other specs have some build in mechanics like shards, or some resources or similar damaging skills that make missing proper skill at end of gcd not so much of a problem.
thank you for your videos. Very sad for all the hunter hero talents. All mostly passive trees with no interesting game play loop you barely notice any visual changes which is a shame especially when compared to the other classes. Feels like a bad AI passive generated tree with awful visuals and no passion for what an actual dark ranger, pack leader or sentinel would be. RIP hunter
Most of Survivals kit is ranged... Serpent Sting, Wildfire Bomb, Kill Shot, Explosive Shot, Kill Command, Death Chakram... You can even make Mongoose Bite ranged if you want... The bigger point is that Survival used to be the only Hunter spec that actually had the ability "Black Arrow"... So it's weird they don't get to have it back now.
MM Hunter just doesn't feel as good as it used to at its peak in like MOP. Now to press Multispot or Arcane shot feels more like a chore rather then actual fun
I don t agree with you, i think its worst for BM becouse it doesnt give them something meaningfull. They just get more of the same and it make this spec even more boring. MM is geting no cast Aim shot, wich is nothing creazy but impacfull. Geting more rapidshot would be unbearable in pvp for others. I play mosty pvp so i have different point of view.
Hot take, every spec should be as easy as BM hunter or at the very least a route in their respective trees that is competitive and results in as easy gameplay as BM. Most other specs of all classes are at least twice as difficult as BM.
I just want to say I really appreciate the sheer volume of class videos you've been putting out even if I hate what the video has in it (I'm looking at you Dark Ranger and what you've done to MM!)
I appreciate it!
Best content creator for war within right now!
Love the videos, - Always fun to dig into the classes a bit, and I think you do a great job talking through each one. I have a couple thoughts on the MM side, I've played a bit of MM in my time, and think you may have missed one or two things, so just friendly discussion here!
Firstly, you mention Rapid Fire is our main way to regen focus, and I think this is true on live. This is due to the current tier set leaning heavily into Rapid fire (double shot quantity, plus surging shots resets). I believe that haste is going to be the primary way to regen focus for MM early in the expansion for Dark Ranger. There are some talents that you have not chosen in the MM tree for this - In the Rhythm, and Steady focus. The build for Dark ranger seems to rely much more on funnel damage through kill shot and aimed shot. Additionally, the dark ranger tree adds in focus regen through the Shadow Assassin choice node. Notice that nowhere in the tree does it give multi-shot additional damage, and I think this is on purpose, because It’s incentivizing you to press multi-shot only once every 6 seconds. Notice also that during Trueshot you are hastening black arrow to cause additional procs, which funnels into additional kill shot procs, and aimed shot resets which equal Focus. Keep in mind, less multi-shots=more focus also (multi shot is 20 focus, where kill shot is 10).
I do believe the goal Blizzard is going for with the Dark Ranger build is to stop pressing as many multi-shots, and use Rapid fire as a focus generator, but also a haste generator (similar to Eye Beam for Havoc DH). From there, the rotation relies on Kill shot and volley for trick shots, and allows you to take the Heavy/Light ammo node if you need to get to salvo. Down the right side of the tree you can get to a few different interesting talents - Wailing arrow (shadow dmg, aoe) which reduces the reliance again on Multi shot, and Lock and Load which also reduces the reliance on focus, and is based on haste also (8% AA proc).
Lastly, I think we’ll have to see how it all plays out, but I think there could be scenarios especially in M+ where you take Calling the Shots for additional Trueshot reduction. We see no problem with focus in Trueshot windows. We also will have to see what the Tier set bonus is for MM, because that could play heavily into how the builds shape up. Just another smaller note, I take hydras bite in this build, to spread serpent sting to multi target.
I will attach a possible build for this below:
www.wowhead.com/talent-calc/hunter/marksmanship/DAOAJGVCYAhCShkFQCVENVFJJSUQWRUCRQBE
For a potential opener in AOE you could do:
Wailing arrow>Explosive shot>SS>SS>multi shot>Trueshot>Black arrow>Kill shot>Rapid Fire>Salvo/Volley>Aimed shot>Aimed shot>kill shot>aimed shot>multi shot
From there you fill with Aimed shots, with Kill Shot on cooldown when it procs off Black Arrow. It funnels huge priority damage, and is reliant on the black arrow target staying alive, but it fills a different type of build than previous MM builds. I think Dark ranger works much better in single target, with cleave AOE. My main takeaways are that Haste is the main Focus Generator, from double steady shot and Rapid fire with “In the Rhythm”. Let me know your thoughts, and maybe you could try this out on Alpha! Keep the videos coming, and let me know what you think!
It's actually an accomplishment to make BM any easier than it already was. Great video as always, Zuco.
with the bm tree restructure that happened since this video, the bestial wrath giving barbed shot charges is much harder to take and makes it a bit harder to keep frenzy up, and might be hard to keep up with low haste at the start of the expansion
shouldve made dark ranger a sv thing with its resets and playing around WF bombs, and for animation it can just shoot black arrow out like SV does with serpent sting with its crossbow, it would have been one the most fun specs in the game with that
ranger and survival don't work lol, survival is a melee spec
@@GhostonTH-cam201x the only spell dark ranger has is black arrow. A dot like serpent sting, something survival already has, you can use the same exact small crossbow animation. Survival has explosive shot too. It works.
Honestly I would have it proc deathblow for MM personally I would prefer that over rapid fire.
Dark ranger should have summoned skeletons instead of animals, like the WC3 heroes. Instead of different animals it could be skeletal warrior, archer and mage
Possible that they want you to talent into lock and load to help with the resource issues. Not ideal though!
Black arrow should obviously reset rapid fire
I feel alpha pred should be bm and survival as is then dark ranger and sentinel swapped. Survival plays more to the Ranger theme.
MM main here
Focus isn’t actually an issue for MM because you can generate it whenever you want with steady shot; making black arrow reset or rapid fire would be too strong, as rapid fire is by far MMs strongest ability
Honesty I would rather it have a chance to buff your next arcane shot/ multi shot, since it’s a button we use naturally in our rotation that isn’t too expensive
Are you guys kidding aim shot is one of the most highest damaging skills its so much better than some tiny barbed shot reset. You guys should be trolling..
Also MM main here, middle of the line 2.6k m+ 1.9k soloq pvp. Focus isn't a massive issue at the moment, but extra Aimed Shots could definitely become a problem, since even now using all Precise Shots drains focus heavily and you must use Steady Shot to refill it, which is absolutely fine, because you're doing it while waiting Aimed Shot/Rapid Fire to come off cd. It's a very balanced flow. Adding extra Aimed Shots now would mean having to occasionally skip on Precise Shots, so you wouldn't overcap Aimed Shots, which is okay, but it shouldn't be a thing in regular rotation.
Buffing Arcane/Multi makes no sense, because there's already a talent that hastens Black Arrow during Trueshot and we barely use these abilities during Trueshot anyways, unless it's AoE and we don't have our current tier, which I must say whoever made it is an absolutely tremendous specimen with a jawline sculpted by the Gods.
In short my solution to this is to delete the hunter class entirely and call it a day. We won't be missed, especially you BM mains.
Hunter hero trees are a mess. They’re definitely bottom of the barrel, minimal effort. It’s like they forgot and remembered “oh yeah. Hunter needs some trees”. I mean what a boring tree and boring interaction, not to mention the CC abilities are pretty much useless, DK got way better CC in their tree compared to this
They're purposely trying to keep the class extremely simple since legion. Blizzard has decided that hunter is the new player friendly "can't mess up" class
@@acphantom6437that's why no one take us seriously
Should make bm focused on buffing undead dogs and mm you spawn skeletal archer that buffs aim or whatever. Warlock person should be doing hunter trees
mm focus will be fine in pvp....i think raids will be a problem
Keep up the good work
It's time wow players wake up and realise that passive interaction is fine. It can be exciting still. Not only that but passive isn't always so passive. You gotta think of how they proc and how it interacts with active button presses. Passives put the actual brain into active skills. But nah you all think it's dumb cause you don't press a button. Look at Ret Paladin and enhancement shaman. Perfect example of weaving passive effects effectively with active buttons.
But not only that BM is supposed to be as passive as possible. I don't know if you noticed but BM is massively popular. There always has to be a set-it-and-forget-it spec. Some just enjoy going around pew pew'ing everything while enjoying the vistas with cool pets. It can't all be arcane mage.
Not super excited for this one, EXCEPT I hate losing stacks and it's hard for my old ass to keep them on DF. So at least there's that. Also I missed having black arrow and explosive shot from way back in classic, so at least part is back
In this specific instance I think your wrong, for BM it’s perfectly fine. You need to know that people who play bm are either lazy or just average joes who won’t be pushing keys or high raid. It’s a simple spec with simplicity as its main focus it doesn’t need to change honestly. As for mm if you play your cards right, your just getting more of your strongest spell in single target, it’s not the most fun or complex but it’s not bad either
Getting more Aimed Shot's is obviously fantastic... I'm wondering about the resource sustain though? Do you think you can keep up your Focus while getting Aimed Shot resets so often?
@@ZucoWoW hey you made an excellent point during the video and yes I do agree that they could have had a better way of making it so that we get some resources back while getting a stack of aimed shot, I just felt like during a high key or during a raid, I can see people using steady shot and same global black arrow to guarantee an aimed shot afterwards
Tbh I disagree with BM being the easiest spec sure you can move around while hitting, but its so much more gcd focused than other classes resulting a high skill cap with less buttons.. building up on this concept. I mean look at the video a pro bm would have not missed all those kill commands (at least 20+ of those were missed) and dps loss build up through a fight significantly. I think you can get what I mean..
@@cankural2501 you make a nice point but I’m sorry my man your just wrong, there isn’t an easier spec to play in the game even if you truly believe that it takes a lot of skill to get globals properly. It’s a nice conversion to have and I’d gladly have it but as a a booster and boosting raid leader Iv played and tried every spec at its highest level, imo there isn’t a easier spec than Beast mastery hunter and I challenge anyone to find me an easier spec haha
@@njavrg.9100 friend, maybe Im misunderstood we are not talking about gameplay simplicity(ofc 3 button with unlimited mobility..) we are talking about min-maxing the dps. It just revolves around not missing kill command so much, with cd reductions.. Other specs have some build in mechanics like shards, or some resources or similar damaging skills that make missing proper skill at end of gcd not so much of a problem.
thank you for your videos. Very sad for all the hunter hero talents. All mostly passive trees with no interesting game play loop you barely notice any visual changes which is a shame especially when compared to the other classes. Feels like a bad AI passive generated tree with awful visuals and no passion for what an actual dark ranger, pack leader or sentinel would be. RIP hunter
The name says way it's not would be my guess. Dark 'RANGER' survival is melee.
Most of Survivals kit is ranged... Serpent Sting, Wildfire Bomb, Kill Shot, Explosive Shot, Kill Command, Death Chakram... You can even make Mongoose Bite ranged if you want...
The bigger point is that Survival used to be the only Hunter spec that actually had the ability "Black Arrow"... So it's weird they don't get to have it back now.
MM Hunter just doesn't feel as good as it used to at its peak in like MOP. Now to press Multispot or Arcane shot feels more like a chore rather then actual fun
I don t agree with you, i think its worst for BM becouse it doesnt give them something meaningfull. They just get more of the same and it make this spec even more boring. MM is geting no cast Aim shot, wich is nothing creazy but impacfull. Geting more rapidshot would be unbearable in pvp for others. I play mosty pvp so i have different point of view.
Hot take, every spec should be as easy as BM hunter or at the very least a route in their respective trees that is competitive and results in as easy gameplay as BM. Most other specs of all classes are at least twice as difficult as BM.
Wow, what a hero talent. Definitely feels heroic 🙄
Thematically, this has nothing dark ranger about it.
The color purple lol
MM hunters needs a huge rework. This tree is by far the worst.