Deborah Meaden: Money Shouldn't Be Your Goal

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 153

  • @EamonCoyle
    @EamonCoyle 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +78

    Deborah Meaden on the pod, I do believe Making Money is making waves !!

  • @oakpurple
    @oakpurple 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +33

    Isn’t it amazing
    That once they have made there big money ,they all start soul searching and then it’s not about the money.There all on journey and full of patronising soulfull advice,trying to convince you to (visualise and it will come true)in reality,most are stuck in dreadful low paid jobs while the multimillionaires are distancing themselves from the reality of most people’s lives.
    Very few award the hardworking people who work for them.

    • @silvafox7719
      @silvafox7719 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

      I like Deborah Meaden, but yeah...she has loads of money and made loads more money on DD. I've even heard her say 'that's not for me as the returns just aren't enough'. The super class own everything, and they always want more. It's definitely about the money.
      Most of us just want enough to pay our rent, mortage or gas bill, have a night out on the piss and a holiday to some where that doesn't rain once a year....What a shambles modern society is!

    • @NN-jd5ul
      @NN-jd5ul 6 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      I remember her saying to Levi Roots that Reggae Reggae Sauce was not going to big enough for her and declared herself out but it outsold Heinz Tomato Ketchup etc and now the rest is history

  • @christianhannah9764
    @christianhannah9764 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +10

    This is a great conversation and interview, but I feel Meaden was not being totally honest here.
    She did not grow up with "not a lot of money", she went to a private boarding school.
    Deborah is clearly a very hard working person with excellent talents but when she isn't honest with her background and buying a business from her parents (many millions of £ for her parents' business but also had little money?) Her parents had a successful multi million pound business but at no point did she get any teaching or information about running a business? It just seems very unlikely.
    I like her talking about sensible business ideas and concepts such as Director's Loan Accounts being an actual loan. But it's so hard to take anything she says as fair when she is either disingenuous or unaware of her own advantages.

    • @Jkobe2345
      @Jkobe2345 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Maybe her mum worked hard enough to pay for private school? Not impossible. We don't know the fees, what her mum did, how long she went for etc. Gotta bear in mind how long ago and the relative prices to wages has changed over the years. She's always come across as the most genuine dragon for me. I think some people are just more business-savy, she's obviously very smart and probably picked up business ideas quickly.

  • @amalali504
    @amalali504 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +12

    Loved this. Thank you! Deborah is the sort of person who's held on to her exuberance, enthusiasm and optimism while keeping it real in business. Sometimes people loose that in the course of pursuit of success.

  • @JodieTarot
    @JodieTarot 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Ordered! After reading the reviews on Amazon I do believe this book will help all my children, including my 20 year old son👀

  • @eheld27
    @eheld27 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    How has this TH-cam channel only got 7.4k subs is beyond me best podcast I’ve watched hands down learnt a lot already only after a couple of episodes!

    • @cfcbeanz1122
      @cfcbeanz1122 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

      This soon changed… double now!

  • @flameacademy
    @flameacademy 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Congrats on having Deborah Meaden on the podcast! Incredible episode

  • @DavidThomasGrant
    @DavidThomasGrant 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    This is amazing, thank you for this podcast! Huge fan of Deborah

  • @Thegreat772
    @Thegreat772 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Never taught about money. Ended up in serious debt. All I was told about was that credit cards are bad but never the details and how to manage your money properly. Got carried away and its taken me to get to me 40s to get back on track.

    • @marthlikinte5607
      @marthlikinte5607 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      There's not even necessarily anything inherently wrong with credit cards. You just have to know (and be taught) the correct way to use them

    • @stevenlahori2665
      @stevenlahori2665 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Welll done you still got back to track..

    • @gazza2933
      @gazza2933 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Finance was never taught when I was at school in the sixties and as far as I know, it still isn't. Ridiculous!
      Good Luck 👍

  • @lawsonium
    @lawsonium 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    The opening line about no fun looking at numbers in the bank almost made me switch this off. Nobody thinks counting money is where happiness is, that's a total myth. Also, nobody wants to hear things like "Money isn't everything" from a multi millionaire. That's possibly the most infuriating thing to hear on any subject.
    It's only because I truly believe that you don't judge a book by it's cover that I kept watching.

    • @donaldlyons17
      @donaldlyons17 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      She is like some of these rich TH-camrs who don't tell the story of their money in a clear way..... For example Andrie J. he told us his investment growth rate but then did not tell us he averaged 21K per year in after tax dollars for 6 year straight!!!! WTF he knows that will make everything make some sense yet his description left that out!!!!

  • @jakkuwolfinsomnia8058
    @jakkuwolfinsomnia8058 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +8

    Wow I can’t believe you’re actually talking to Deborah Meaden this is amazing!! She’s so down to earth, it’s so much better seeing her talk here because on tv her personality isn’t fully shown

    • @DamienTalksMoney
      @DamienTalksMoney 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Yeah it was a pinch me moment that i was in the same room as her and honestly she was lovely.

    • @jakkuwolfinsomnia8058
      @jakkuwolfinsomnia8058 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@DamienTalksMoney I bet! I saw a different side to her in this video than all of Dragon’s Den. Thanks for the great video Damien ! 👍

  • @IAmebAdger
    @IAmebAdger 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Never watched anything with her, am now a fan. She knows what's important.

  • @johndodds7949
    @johndodds7949 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    😂😂my daughter used to say just go the the machine in the wall….

  • @SR-007
    @SR-007 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

    Great discussions and points made that resonate clear and simple. Well done!

  • @razorphone77
    @razorphone77 7 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Isn't it funny how people with pots of money, that clearly set their stall out to make pots of money, insist that it isn't about the money.
    So she never drove a hard bargain with a DD contestant then? cause it wasn't about the money, it was about the thrill of the chase, building the business.
    Presumably she wouldn't mind gifting me a few mill then, since the money doesn't matter.

    • @James_36
      @James_36 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

      its because they don't want to come across as the heartless crazy relentlessly ruthless all about the money people they are lol

  • @JYCrazy1
    @JYCrazy1 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I love Deborah Meaden, she’s so straight-talking and wise!

  • @cptwhite
    @cptwhite 5 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Just bought the book for my 8 and 10 year olds, financial education is so important, thanks for the heads up.

  • @polhemic
    @polhemic 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Can you win a BAFTA for a podcast? You seriously deserve one for this episode, very watchable. I'm looking forward to when you invite Deborah back in the future!

  • @robmurphy1558
    @robmurphy1558 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Thoroughly enjoyed this. It looked like a lot of fun. Deborah seems like a such a humble person. 😊

  • @goodquestion8064
    @goodquestion8064 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +15

    She hit the nail on the head when she said we can influence kids at 5-6 . That’s why home schooling is so important until you find a school fit of educating your child . Schools are a systematic place of indoctrination

    • @IAmebAdger
      @IAmebAdger 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Depends. There are tons of schools that are chaotic places of wild development, and home schooling is just another form of indoctrination too, as is any kind of schooling. The only person free from other people's biases is some variation of Tarzan. Of course some sort of order is needed for learning to happen, but some sort of chaos is also needed for social things to happen.

  • @iain1019
    @iain1019 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I like debra meaden. Her outlook on wealth is amazing.

  • @TapDanceExchange
    @TapDanceExchange 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +9

    National treasure is Deborah Meaden!

  • @Goady1000
    @Goady1000 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    Everyone in my family is shit with money, I'm the only one who's good with it (oddball) but I seen how hard life was for my mum and my dad having nothing and credit card debts

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      Thanks for the comment - good to hear you've broken the cycle

  • @MrKTroopA
    @MrKTroopA 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    another excellent video and lots of useful insights. this series is on fire!😀

  • @pippenlapue9643
    @pippenlapue9643 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    When you can no longer earn money because of old age. Its nice to have it and live comfortable.
    Many retired people look back, some didnt have inheritance. Not money savvy. Wish they thought about money. I dont agree with her about not thinking about money.
    They had financial advisores that helps. She worked long hours. We need money for our old age. You
    Also who can

  • @gavloft
    @gavloft 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    She came from wealth so not entirely self made. She lives off the people she taxes. For instance steve jobs comes into the den and she gives him 20k now apple has to give her 20% of its profits to her forever.

    • @Billyturner47
      @Billyturner47 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

      Not really how it works

    • @johnnylima9632
      @johnnylima9632 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@Billyturner47he’s not too far off either.

  • @ToothlessDragon536
    @ToothlessDragon536 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    They are really invested in engaging with her. It's not just an expected interaction in an interview.

  • @LynneF-jx2uj
    @LynneF-jx2uj 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    What a fantastic podcast, you are going from strength to strength! Thanks for all your hard work, you deserve every success.

  • @DeputyChiefWhip
    @DeputyChiefWhip 8 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    42:11 this is the best part of the pod

  • @nicolehilton8787
    @nicolehilton8787 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    so many gems in this!👏🏾

  • @Asif24960
    @Asif24960 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    You havnt done a good job promoting this channel. Have come across it by chance. Glad I have!

  • @carolineb7796
    @carolineb7796 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I love Deborah Meaden, she’s incredible! Smartest dragon out there

  • @julianfarquhar
    @julianfarquhar 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Really good atmosphere to this podcast. Plus the woman really was naturally engaging and unpretentious. I usually cannot stand the attitude of the Dragons den hosts, but she was great

  • @thesunrising4982
    @thesunrising4982 10 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Comment to support the channel. I love Deborah, she's a star ❤

  • @dallassukerkin6878
    @dallassukerkin6878 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Good catch to have this lady on!

  • @jam99
    @jam99 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I respect some of the reasons why some people voted for Brexit. But anybody who says that Brexit has not been bad for the UK economy so far should not be entertained with silence or a lie.

  • @bruthurnature
    @bruthurnature 5 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really Great Episode! Found your channel from Gary Stevenson (would be great to listen you guys chat again) and loving it! Lots of perspective and truth 🙏🏼✨

  • @MostAlpha
    @MostAlpha 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Deborah Meaden is a great role model.

  • @withwilk7473
    @withwilk7473 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    As a seasoned hospitality worker, greenwashing is rampant. Camp/glamping sites that claim they recycle, mostly don't. The customer divides into plastic, glass, paper etc and then it all goes in one skip or 1 lorry and off to landfill. Most eco things are grant based, not out of the business owners good nature. Councils want to look good, for funding etc, they give grants, businesses misuse them. The waste in finance and literal resources is astronomical.

  • @ivanahappiness
    @ivanahappiness 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Fantastic podcast, well done 👏 Great energy as always, thank you 😊

  • @digitaldadprenuer
    @digitaldadprenuer 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    15.05 simple breathing technique will sort your nervous system out, no need for gadgets

  • @patgrant149
    @patgrant149 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    She seems like a nice lady.

  • @DeputyChiefWhip
    @DeputyChiefWhip 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hey damo. What about this crowdcube thing? Do you have any experience with it, or any videos?

  • @gazza2933
    @gazza2933 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    When Deborah speaks.
    You listen!
    Thank you for this. 👍

  • @onlyagreeingsometimes
    @onlyagreeingsometimes 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Most people have a clue on what they want to invest in, but don't know what platforms to invest on vs what platforms not to invest on. Banks, robot investing, etc🤔

  • @mwscuba
    @mwscuba 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    loved this, why cant Deborah be PM and you could be both in her cabinet along with Mr Pension Craft and Mr Meaningful money

  • @keithlos1497
    @keithlos1497 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Just come across this...an excellent watch. 👍👍👍
    More guests please.

  • @annagilda1
    @annagilda1 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Notice she said her partner doesnt "earn." Not that he doesnt work. I really like this lady. I remember listening to her on the radio many years ago and thinking she had really good priorities and values.

  • @phonkshop23
    @phonkshop23 8 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Why would companies not just use the same plastic, one that would be the easiest to recycle?

  • @AMEE330
    @AMEE330 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Deborah was so good on this pod but thing that put me off most is the other guy barely lets the other guy speak , he just cuts him off . So rude

  • @mihaisabau7713
    @mihaisabau7713 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    It’s not only a British thing. I’m from Romania and the same happens here. People don’t talk very easy about money. I

  • @MrDaeltaja
    @MrDaeltaja 7 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Deborah is awesome. Everyone can learn something from her.

  • @AR-fy2qo
    @AR-fy2qo 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You guys controlled this to the tee. Great navigation of a podcast!

  • @GU__NI
    @GU__NI 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Plastic breaks down when reused especially bottles.

  • @dakzer55
    @dakzer55 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great video, and loving the guests you have on the channel. Thank you 😊

  • @MattMarsh2
    @MattMarsh2 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Love the shirt!

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      It was a particularly important occasion!

  • @justliving83
    @justliving83 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Thank you for sharing her with us guys! Very engaging interview. Loved every minute of it

  • @tomdavis8644
    @tomdavis8644 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Getting this book for the kids for sure!

  • @Premier_lawns_official
    @Premier_lawns_official 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Fantastic interview, my favourite dragon

  • @ayandaveli2882
    @ayandaveli2882 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great interview fellas and it was just natural and flowed.

  • @jn5433
    @jn5433 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Brah hoovered up a line or two before this interview for sure

  • @minimad8793
    @minimad8793 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +16

    Brilliant Job boys on getting Deborah meaden on the Podcast. Down to earth lady who is good at what she does. Glad to see the book she has wrote for the right age group.

    • @atheistium
      @atheistium 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I don't really know much about her businesses but she's always come across so down to earth and says it how it is without coming across bolshy and mean or super show-offy. This was really interesting

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It was an absolute honour to have her on

  • @SkeletonDrums1
    @SkeletonDrums1 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    I totally agree that basics in finance should be in the curriculum. If we all had a basic understanding of even small scale investment as a child, we'd all be in a better place as young adults.
    I'd love to live in a world where the government provide a small amount of investment capital to every school child and show them how to invest it. Years later as they see it grow, it would firstly inspire them to invest more and also they would know where to start with investing more. It could reduce the burden on the state pension system and generate security for all.

  • @computertechhelper
    @computertechhelper 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I treat money as my time, say you earn £12 an hour and I go to buy a Costa coffee and it costs me £6 for a coffee and a cake then I see that is I'm wasting 30 minutes of my life or robbing that 30 mins for my future self, obviously you need to be logical and can't apply it to everything but it once you think of it that way you stop and think more before buying

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That's exactly what I very first guest Claer Barrett from the FT says as well: to work out what our hourly rate is and apply that to what we buy.

  • @onlyagreeingsometimes
    @onlyagreeingsometimes 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How not to have shareholders and do some work on ours

  • @comeplague
    @comeplague 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    i hope this books gets translated to norwegian

  • @onlyagreeingsometimes
    @onlyagreeingsometimes 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You don't have to take a side to have an opinion.

  • @NihilisticHedonism
    @NihilisticHedonism 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I bet you two had to scrape a few pennies together to get her on. She's very strong-minded and sharp type A personality - no wonder the husband is the Beta in the relationship.

  • @davidwalsh9807
    @davidwalsh9807 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Much anticipated after you both spilling the beans as soon as it was confirmed 👍 but congrats 👏 delighted for you all

  • @tone.1
    @tone.1 6 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really enjoyed that…❤

  • @DarrenSmith-zz6fk
    @DarrenSmith-zz6fk 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Deborah mentions storing wealth in pieces of paper i store my hard work in real money assets

  • @thenoodlebuddy
    @thenoodlebuddy 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    My first episode and what a great one it was, well done for getting Deborah Meadon on and thanks for a Great podcast

  • @goodquestion8064
    @goodquestion8064 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    28.52 the biggest lie

  • @tbask
    @tbask 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Quality content!

  • @planeguy95
    @planeguy95 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Brilliant woman

  • @robkyle2008
    @robkyle2008 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Aced it♠♥♦♣

  • @iancoulson5822
    @iancoulson5822 10 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Deborah = 💎

  • @hachimaru295
    @hachimaru295 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Great podcast people ! The quality of the guests gives an idea whos really watching , Good evening Rishi, Boris , Jezzer

  • @Christoff8188
    @Christoff8188 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    You've probably had this feedback already, but FYI:
    The mic volumes need some more balance. Deborah was way louder than you guys, and it was kind of jarring as I had to keep turning the volume up/down.
    Outside of that, loved this video! Got a subscribe from me (I already follow Damien).

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

      Thanks for getting in touch. No one else has commented this and the mic volumes were levelled and this has been re-checked now but we'll keep an eye on this as we take the quality of our production very seriously.

    • @Christoff8188
      @Christoff8188 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@MakingMoneyPodcast I was listening on my phone out loud, so before commenting I probably should have double checked with headphones too!
      Either way, thanks for the response, it's appreciated. Keep up the fantastic work. 😁

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      It's always good to get feedback. Thanks for letting us know and really happy you like the podcast :)

  • @issiewizzie
    @issiewizzie 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great works guys

  • @1701Starfish
    @1701Starfish 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great interview.

  • @sambamberofficial
    @sambamberofficial 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Which manual plan are you on?

    • @DamienTalksMoney
      @DamienTalksMoney 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I get the one with the pills, spray and shampoo

  • @Muricastuff
    @Muricastuff 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I would..

  • @lloydbutcher964
    @lloydbutcher964 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    That was a super video!

  • @lifeisagame2023
    @lifeisagame2023 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    What a coup for you! Good stuff

  • @warrenb243
    @warrenb243 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Really enjoyed it and ordered the book for my 6 year old daughter

  • @SirLallington
    @SirLallington 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Best one yet! Lots of golden nuggets!

  • @jamespawson6045
    @jamespawson6045 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    22k views after 4 days? What’s happeneing? Such a good interview with a great person! Let’s hope more people find this.

    • @jn5433
      @jn5433 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Brah why do you care

    • @donaldlyons17
      @donaldlyons17 9 หลายเดือนก่อน

      22K views sound like plenty to me.......

  • @glowgirl8072
    @glowgirl8072 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great interview! Just came across your podcast. I think both hosts need to ask questions and be able to speak without interrupting each other. One of the hosts is tending to dominate slightly.

    • @DamienTalksMoney
      @DamienTalksMoney 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Good feedback and you made your point in a constructive way, I will work on this going forwards.

  • @leoncounsell8572
    @leoncounsell8572 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Another top interview, really nice to see Deborah Meaden on here.

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Thanks so much, glad you enjoyed it

  • @laurindamota5791
    @laurindamota5791 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +6

    Awesome podcast. Loved the energy 👏 👌 🙌

  • @goodquestion8064
    @goodquestion8064 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    She found this channel, the channel didn’t find her .. this is gold, scripted payed gold

  • @essentialmtb8683
    @essentialmtb8683 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I do believe teachers have a big play in it as well. For example in year 4 I had all the beast quest books and my mates wanted to use them and I was like I’ll rent them too you for 1£ a month. Long story short I got in quite a bit of trouble with that.

  • @liamgriffin5583
    @liamgriffin5583 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I love this podcast. Watch every video. Well done chaps

  • @Hope-is-not-a-strategy
    @Hope-is-not-a-strategy 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    my fav podcast!! amazing work!!

  • @DB25k
    @DB25k 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +4

    Another great interview, with a fantastic guest. It's a great shirt. I think we should ask more questions for very knowledgeable people that give up thier time to be here.

    • @MakingMoneyPodcast
      @MakingMoneyPodcast  11 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Glad you enjoyed the episode - and the shirt!

  • @MATTPARKER-z1u
    @MATTPARKER-z1u 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    This was great, interesting and informative and really a lot of fun..

  • @garethgazz9332
    @garethgazz9332 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    Brilliant conversation. I love that she did this pod. She had no real reason to; i mean alright she's got a kids book on money, but it's not like she desperately needs that to make a fortune. She's great.

  • @Brunty_Vegas
    @Brunty_Vegas 11 หลายเดือนก่อน

    This one had me glued boys. Learned a lot and now I want that book for my kids. Great episode!

  • @matthewryan4844
    @matthewryan4844 11 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I went to a rural cafe where there were no prices on the menu, the cakes at the counter or any of the boards. I asked the waitress how much some things were and she didnt even know until she put it in the till. Now thats the sneaky way to do it