Alright I talked about why consulting might not be a right fit. Click here to watch a video on why I thought consulting was worth it in the end: th-cam.com/video/eaTnQnjnGO8/w-d-xo.html
don't join consulting if... 1. you do not enjoy working with others 1:06 2. you hate change and competition 2:48 3. you want a work life balance 4:19 4. you have a hard time saying no 7:03 5. you hate writing 9:08
@LaMelo Ball I'm still pretty new, I started last January. I work for Armanino and so far it's nothing like that. My worst work weeks have been 55 minimum billable hours and everyone is super awesome and likes working here. I have peers at Deloitte tax and other Big 4 firms and while I don't hear anything about stepping on one another a common complaint is hours and one of my peers who previously worked at PwC said it was all bad pretty much. People do generally seem happier at National and regional firms. I would do your best and hopefully you land. If it's your only offer take it and if you get more than one consider your options at the end of the recruiting cycle.
@LaMelo Ball interning doesn't mean full time. so you can treat interning as an experience in which you evaluate if its a good fit or not and then if not, you can rerecruit for full time. consulting is probably a lot more competitive than tax.
@@harlyslamm2888 You get yourself hired by a client at a level (and salary) you would never get if you came through the front door. Not bad for a dude with only 3 years of experience.
For young people leaving University -> joining a Big-4 consultancy for 3 to 4 years WILL help you learn what would take 10 years in an organisation. My advice is join a consultancy and gather as much information (structures, methodologies, etc knowledge slides, process assurance , assessment check lists, etc) and leave after 3 years to work for an organisation. Of course, if you enjoy your work, you may decide remain put.
Hey, if you had to choose between an audit or management consulting graduate scheme, which would be the better option for a future move into deal advisory, particularly M&A. And then into IB/PE?
@@adamlasry1691 thanks for the info, I'm curious why you would pick consulting over audit? Due to more transferable skills? I spoke to another M&A senior in the big 4 who said audit just slightly edges over consulting due to more technical knowledge. But the move can be done from consulting too
@@HtheKing A lot folks who work in M&A Financial Advisory bucket at big 4 accounting firms spend some time in audit. I've seen some folks get the roles right out of school (this is tougher to do). From what I have seen, folks with some audit experience are generally able to get up to speed rather quickly because of the transferability of their audit background (hard skills). Have seen those same folks leave and go into banking, corporate development, in-house M&A teams, PE, VC, and/or consulting (operations) after. Management consulting at the big 3 (Bain, McKinsey, BCG) generally looked at as a tad more prestigious than even a big 4 for some work streams and even greater barrier to entry. So if you have the options to be at one of those in Management consulting, I would say, it considering, even over a big 4. Really depends what your goal is. I think after those Big 3 consulting, Big 4 accounting firms are next and some argue even better starting place for the depth of services offered, culture, and networking. I would say if you want to position yourself for the jump by leveraging management consulting (maybe transferring from audit or M&A to the consulting), of the big 4, Deloitte may have the advantage, only because their consulting group is the biggest of the big 4 and generally rank 4th on the list of top consulting firms. Sounds like you are in a good spot either way, best of luck.
knowing when to say no is really the most important skill. Worst people are those that always seem to say no. Another is saying yes but can't deliver and blame you because you did not know they are incompetent and don't acknowledge it. So if you know you are good, the tendency is work will be pilled into your face and no one appreciates you and just complains if you don't deliver somehow because you have tons of items to do, all tactical and lots of technical debt. So I have learned to always minimize tactical even though 90% of work is tactical in consultancy. Planning is still strategic regardless they say it is tactical. Because at the end of the day, if issues happen, they will not accept the blame and you will not get enough time to fix problems. So you should always do something in a way no blowback comes back to you, and say No to stuff that you know will cause blowback. Say no to things damn if you do, damn if you don't. Might as well be damn if you don't. 😂 Who cares if they get angry. They will still get angry if you do it.
@@earlnoli Exactly ! I had a colleague that would always underestimate the lenght of a task and then, obviously, would be late. He was meaning well and trying to say what he thought people wanted to hear. Sadly, that led to many people being upset with him. I knew that so I would always ask him to reconsider his first assessment. But not everyone is like this. Of course, you need to learn WHEN to say NO. But first you've got to learn HOW to say NO. So many people are non confrontational and cannot refuse when asked. If you're a pushover, you're going to get flooded with work.
I have a superior who cannot says no, even when he doesn't have tha authority to say yes or doesn't know if it's possible to do (I'm in the military now, so he is not my direct superior but is of a superior rank and working in the same department). So when someone needs a modification on one of the systems we have, they come to me, I say no can't do (since I'm the specialist I have authority to do this), they them go to him and ask if we (the department can delivery this), he says yes and come and give me a order to do, since now is a order from a superior ranking officer I have to do. But since I'm the specialist I have to do, but I'm not obligated to say when I will delivery because the priorities of the projects is decided by our boss who is way above him on the hierarchy. And this is the reason I have changes requests with more than three years. And more pilling up.
@@foca2002 Wow ! Sounds like you're in quite the pickle... Good thing you can at least adjust your own deadlines. Managers that say "yes" whithout asking their experts first are baffling to me.
I got my first job at a Tier 1 engineering firm in environmental consulting. I was honestly shocked at the game-playing, manipulation, competition and aggressiveness of my colleagues. Me being someone who cares about others' wellbeing, didn't know what hit me. It is unbelievable how these organisations can promote such a toxic culture. I was efficient and others took credit for my work, stole my projects and more. Two years in I had severe burnout and it took me years to recover but I still feel the effects 10 years later and has severely impacted my career, finances and personal life. Nothing is worth working in such a toxic environment. Thanks for the video. Good luck to anyone wanting to pursue a career in consulting - my advice is to never climb over others in your journey to 'success'.
Aww I’m so sorry to hear that!!! I HOPE you started trying to stand up and speak up for yourself a lil more, because yeah unfortunately there are very sneaky backstabbing and lying people who either try to steal credit or throw blame somewhere else, they are one of the worst and definitely make for an ugly environment! Good luck to you wherever ur at now!
The work places are full of incompetent people who need to play games to get ahead. That's what they do when they go to work every day. Pretend to work some of the time and spend most of the time taking advantage of the people who really care about the work.
this is what happens in most organisations and its sickening.The culture makes u wanna throw up the first week.ihv been so unlucky with these fucked up companies with people who would bend and break every bit of morality just to get higher up the ladder.
Growing up my dad was a consultant. Although his career definitely provided us with a very nice life, all my childhood I watched how he was overworked, always traveling, and always taking calls and e-mails and meetings when we were supposed to be having “family” time. When it came time for me to graduate college, he told me explicitly: choose any career path except consulting.
@Mira Bella it's all about what you enjoy. If you truly enjoy your job, it's like binge watching a series or playing an addictive video game. I know this firsthand as a data engineer. If I do stuff I like and make progress I just want to keep going. In that context working long hours isn't that bad. It's when you do grindy and boring work that it becomes draining.
I've been with a consulting firm for nearly 25 years. I'm a partner and on the leadership team. Mika is absolutely correct. I'm fortunate because I work for a relatively small company and we've created a family environment. The management and leadership are key to a great experience-that's critical to evaluate when considering joining a consulting firm. Work life balance is always something to monitor. However, being overworked isn't restricted to consulting. I think this a consistent theme in the majority of IT projects.
I am an MBA student and I will finish my course later this year, I watch this video and I got worried but when I read your comment I feel good because I thought all the bosses are like this they don't care about their employees and will not be supportive but after reading your comment I feel ok because there are some bosses that can be supportive and look after their employees WLB.
@@recursion. Lol at the end of the day you are still a replaceable asset but having a nicer working environment where everyone isn't trying to screw you over is still better than a shit one.
I’m so glad I didn’t get my consulting grad scheme , it was truly a blessing. I ended up working for start up and I’m so grateful I did. When things don’t work out it’s because something better is coming!
@@HtheKingNot for everybody, though. Plenty of young people have died of heart attack every year due to the cut-throat education/corporate environment.
In my own experience working as a consultant, the most mentally draining thing is the intense unfair competition between colleagues. In my opinion, this is due to the individual growth structure in the consulting career and not in growing the business practice as a work team.
You need to consider the culture of the organization in your decision-making process. Publicly traded, privately held, and employee-owned companies all have unique cultures based on how they incentive growth and professional development.
Very interesting because the research says that collaborative working cultures tend to produce greater burnout because you're not just doing your own job. Japan and other Asian countries are extremely collaborative, and people do burn out in this part of the world.
My own experience: unhealthy competition among colleagues. They might not say/show it in front of you, but you will definitely get hit with something like this: “oh I heard this person was so this so that” from another manager. Toxic environment.
This is so true. I got in to one of the big four right after graduation and quit after a year for these reasons - I was literally burning out. I wish all new grads aspiring to go into consulting especially with the big four would actually listen to advice like this and assess if they can actually fit into this world before blindly delving into it.
@@temitopeolatinwo So sorry! What was it like? Recently got interested in the idea of working in consulting but don't know especially in this country and our crazy work ethics.
Such a good video! When I was in uni, consulting was so overhyped and it felt like everyone wanted to get into consulting. Nobody ever talks about why NOT to get into consulting! Glad that my introverted self is in a research-focused role instead 🤣
My mother said to never compare yourself to others. You can reach great success. Too much competition divides the team and customers. It was good that you walked away from it.
thanks mika for giving an honest view of consulting! it's such a breath of fresh air to have someone just talk about the facts, without trying to sell us the dream back when i was in uni, everybody would talk about how consulting was the dream job, and literally all my peers (and myself) tunnel visioned into getting into bain, mckinsey, big 4 etc. but yeah, thanks for giving a straight & down to earth explanation of the consulting world
Did not expect this video to be 100% truth. My first job was in consulting and I had no idea what I was getting myself into and about none of the things mentioned here. Working full days, I never said no, maneger was manipulating us and also taking the best projects. I didn't feel we are a team but like everyone is against one another. I was burned out and unhappy. I'm not there anymore and never going back to consultancy
Which firm did u work for? Did u ever share any of these issues with anyone? I hear certain ones have a much more competitive cut throat atmosphere n therefore less friendly. It’s like maybe ppl throwing others under the bus or generally just watching out for themselves only. It could also be that people in general just suck too lol. It is weird tho and unfortunate when I hear stories of people of any level lying, stealing or trying to take things like credit, hours, or just not give credit to really good people. N I’ve heard, like you might say about people not being a team, others will do less work, leave it to others to pick up slack, lie, or even take up more time for one group working on protect to leaving the other group with a fraction of the time the other group took and is then expected to do it the day of and weekends. It’s real if ugly and selfish behavior. So I wonder, is it the same in all the big 4? I hope you also leave a comment to whatever firm you worked for, to help point out obvious unhealthy behaviors that put stress or make people feel alone, and like Mika said, regarding clients, some can be temperamental. That emergency thing she speaks of, I hear yeah some people are notorious for that, which they don’t think of the unhealthy unnecessary pressure they are giving people and then you wonder why stress kills people! Oh n then like Mika said lol it wasn’t even really an emergency! Those are very selfish people! Good luck tho wherever ur at now, hope it’s better and a better environment! :)
Me as an introvert: I had been a consultant for 2.5 years. I was always depressed, anxious, severely underpaid, had no work life balance, and always feeling burnt out. It was clearly a mistake but had no other options. Now that I moved to another country, I'm having a last stage interview for a consulting firm next week and I'm already thinking of calling it off when all of a sudden your video shows me and reminds me of the horrors I endured 😂 NEVER AGAIN
@@malek4581 ive been through this in the banking industry for 2.5 yrs just like you. Just find something more stable. Honestly i recommend something like procurement or a support role in a multinational company that has their own resources and doesnt rely on consulting much. Im in the food industry and i much prefer it.
Haha. Excellent summary. I also worked for one of the big four when I was young (in my time it was the big five). Most of the frustrations you have described are due to poor management skills and absolutely tragic communication between the senior levels, who deal with the senior leaders of the client, and the people on the ground who actually do the work. Consultancies are not the only sector that suffers from this. But hey, we were young and were surfing on all the adrenaline and cortisol this lifestyle brings :) I personally enjoy the regular change, the working with a different client and a different team each six months, but I joined a smaller company later in life where I had more flexibility - and I learned that cherishing the lunch hour improves the team dynamics and work/life balance improves focus and productivity. The "you do this asap because I said so" it's just an ego ride which is actually bad for business in the long term.
As a tech consultant, I truly agree with each and every word Mika said here. Being from a computer science background, I feel out of space, most of the time because of the sheer chaos.
Thank you Mika for creating this video, because I don't think I've ever seen anyone being this honest about the consulting job. I seriously would've never figured this out myself as a recent college graduate. Keep up the good work!(:
One thing I learned pretty quickly is that if you feel like you're in an "ok" or "neutral" mood, then most people will interpret that you're in a bad mood or that you don't like them. And you will be weeded out (not just in consulting, but from any group) very quickly based on that alone.
Accurate (I'm was senior mgr, Big4, as well as a former boutique mgmt consulting firm). It is not everyone's cup of tea. Ironically enough, I spent time as a police officer early in my life. That sort of prepared me for (1) talking with plenty of random people to get information, (2) dealing with uncooperative people that lie to you (3), long working hours under a great deal of stress. It helped that I had good mentors when I first moved into consulting but I found much of the social skills to be similar.
Hi, that's very funny, because I have a job interview for becoming a consultant next week and worked in my earlier life as a police officer as well. Would you decide for the same job if you had the choice again? I also have the option between deloitte consulting and in-house consulting from another company
@@dianahuhn3105 Life sometimes offer you opportunities and if the timing is right, take it and don't look back. I suggest you take the DC option as it would give you much greater exposure and exit options. Consulting is really about exit options, which you will not get if you go in-house. NB: I was from Deloitte Consulting until last month :)
@@dianahuhn3105 Can I ask how you both went from police into consulting in terms of study or application route? It seems to me that career change is not easy as most job applications are looking for recent graduates.
@@Nick-tp4xy sure, in my case I had to quit police service directly after getting detective degree, because of medical issues. So I restarted and studied business with real estate specification (at least it was completely paid by my employer back then). Thanks to a security project I managed during my second study experience, I got a scholarship for a semester abroad and then after my second study degree it was pretty easy to find a job, because of the "Police USP".
coming from a big 4 tax group I agree with all points! I do see more and more people leaving big 4 (especially post covid) and poor souls remaining will have more and more to work on until the whole industry reforms
That's right! Attrition rate is super high right now and the ones that stayed back are definitely feeling that burnout. I guess after a point you just stop caring!
Whenever you're tempted by the astronomically high salaries in consulting, see this video. I once provided some spreadsheet advice to a Goldman Sachs junior consultant. She was often on the phone (on a Sunday afternoon) asking her husband (another GS consultant) when they were ever getting together. I wondered, "How did they find time to get married?"
I'm not yet in consulting, but I do have some life experience. I think this is good thought and I appreciate that you are leaving a lot of the anger out. I do feel that most of these five things will make you a better person. Namely learning to work with people, adapting to change, challenging yourself, learning to say no, and understanding that writing and reading are a way of life in the white collar world. I would say the only one that is personally detrimental or violates personal growth is #3 work life balance. I will certainly have to navigate and negotiate what I want and am willing to do on this front, but nevertheless I think everyone should be striving to self-actualize in the other four areas so I don't think overall the changes that consulting brings is a bad thing. Note: I realize this is not the point you are are trying the make. I'm just point out that this video may be a call up to those watching it, rather than a call out on the big 4.
I used to work for an MBB company with a very different approach to work/personal time. We would never contacted on weekends. Also we had a lot of more mature consultants who were more happy to say no. Also, working long hours is usually an example that the manager hasn’t clarified the story that they wish to tell.
accurate video. A little advice from a programmer who worked for one of the big consulting companies... if you have the time: 1) when starting a new project, you should be spending 12 hours a day learning the ins and outs of the system(s) for the first couple of months 2) take as much responsibility as possible 3) Make your company not be able to live without you 4) When you get your raise, interview at other companies and tell them your new salary (or bump it up a little... you know 401k, education, ect.) - get offers from these companies 5) bring these offers to your current company and in my experience they will match it - so every year you essentially get 2 raises. 6) repeat steps 2-5 every year.
In consulting for 1.5 hours, can relate a lot. Hate being understaffed on a project and very frustrated with partners over promising work which makes me have no work life balance
I'm really sorry to hear that and I feel your pain! One thing that helped me push through this was to come up with a support system (colleagues, friends, family) and also to make a plan of what you foresee your career looking like. So for instance if you have an exit strategy in mind, then you have that end light you can look forward to and have a purpose while going through these grindy times
@@MikaKim shouldn't there be some law that would punish managers for creating such environments where you have to work insane hours just not to be fired. that's like being silently threatened all your career life.
@@XAE_A_Xii yes but the HR org is not autonomous. If there is an employee that goes to HR because there is an issue, HR will conduct an investigation and speak to the people that run the business. The employee thinks HR will look out for them when in reality HR only works on behalf of the business executives. It is the business that calls the shots on HR. HR are just employee like any other that live pay packet to pay packet. They can be disposed of at anytime
I worked as a Sr. consultant with PwC and it was an amazing experience. I am now a Sr. VP at an international bank but would love to go back into consulting any time. Consulting gives you a big picture and the networking is great, however, you will be poached. I used to get at least one call/ a day for an interview when I was with PwC. Finally I left PwC for a 80% hike and there has been no looking back since then
Apparently she had been a business analyst. How long have you worked as a senior cons? As you have experinced, there are tons of errend in consulting and when someone climbs higher in these Ponzi organizations, they throw all those errend to juniors without any empathy.
@@reynanregaladonow6426 Probably because he may love his current job similarly and also he gets paid 80% more right now. When people say they would go back to an career field at any time, they usually base that statement on the job activities and functions, not external factors such as pay and competition.
After I graduated, McKinsey tried to lure me into their world with pizza parties etc which I never attended. I was never convinced about the consulting approach and what this kind of job does. I know several who joined consulting companies - they all left, I heard horrible stories about mgmt and working hours there. Colleague competition seems to be at its worst there, too. People join consulting companies for the salary and opportunities which might open after leaving the consulting company. I understand now that already the interview process selects personalities of candidates who are very adaptable, socially, and yes-sayers. Nothing I personally fit in. Glad I never applied. Your video confirms that I would hate this job. Hey, I don't even like travelling!
Sounds fake, pizza party really lol? McKinsey doesn't give a shit about you. While you sit here typing this nonsense there are tens of thousand of students waiting in line trying to to break into MBB.
I have been working in consulting for most of my career. What I hate the most about it, is how little value non deliverable requirements matter to them. For example software architecture, which I value greatly, isn't taken into account. Projects I have lead the architecture of have been delivered on or ahead of deadlines. But to a consultancy, how maintainable, flexible etc the code base is doesn't matter much, as the code base doesn't belong to them. They, in the end, just want to deliver in the time that was agreed upon
It really depends on the personal choices. What you said, I agree. But I feel every job have some advantages and disadvantages. Few people may not like consulting jobs but there are a lot of opportunities and scope for consulting role and also salary is good for this role. Even a business analyst has to write. But somehow it improves our writing skills too and helps to understand project requirements. For Inside Sales role also, we need to write, convince the customers and its target based. So every job have some advantages and disadvantages. As you said, we need to work with different clients, which is good. We will eventually learn to adapt, we will be interactive, proactive. If we need money, we need to do hardwork.
It's a mystery to me how hyper-competitive people can also be good team players and likable to colleagues, given they're (intentionally/unintentionally) trying to one up everyone all the time or tend to dominate projects. But somehow it works for some people. Hello from Law btw, 어느정도 공감이 가요 ^^
Great point. A psychologist on workplace politics has addressed this topic. To paraphrase him, they are all narcissists and all narcissists recognise one another and get on very well because they all think alike and share the same negative energy. People who have a moral compass stick out like a sore thumb and are quickly removed from the environment.
@@davidelu5313 I have met several of them at my past workplace. Glade I'm out from there and building my own business. Anyone with empathy can see their insanity, they seeems possessed with evil.
They are good team players for a reason. Most companies have peer to peer recognition, they fish for it like a Bonus coins in Video game ! Or in review meeting they inform their managers they helped so and so in order to get hike / promotion. Human mind is wired for Recognition. Hyper competitive have more strong wiring!
It's called being a sociopath, or at least have enough cognitive-dissonance about the whole thing to pretend to be a sociopath. Sociopathy is required for narcissists to work with anyone, especially other narcissists. Two narcissists are like vampires trying to suck each other's blood.
This was a great honest video! I think too many times consulting and similar industries are sugar-coated but I'm glad you kept things super transparent
@@my-vn8nw I did not write anything that should trigger your comment! I ask what did they do after they quit their job so obviously jobwise and moneywise....how did you put your mind on me meaning being a wife is not enough i have no idea because i did not write anything like that. in fact i am a wife and stay at home mom at the moment but you can not earn money by being a wife or mom. hence why i wrote what i wrote...
I took a consulting job after engineering cause it came easy and it was a pretty well known international firm, I stuck with it cause the pandemic spoiled my plans to job hop 😂 So I don’t have work life balance issues cause I was an inexperienced fresher but I see ALL of these problems plaguing my older colleagues I also very casually say not to things cause I know I want to switch careers eventually The main factor I stuck with the job was the last point in the video: I love to write 😁😁 Once I got the hang of what clients want to hear I was filling decks with numerical storytelling and thinking to myself wow I’m getting paid for this(not much but still😂)
I never seriously considered going into consulting but this just supports my suspicion that it's not for me. hate competition like that, need a healthy work-life balance, and absolutely despise writing 😅
hi, just found your channel from my timeline, and YESSS ALL OF THEM ARE EXACTLY TRUE 😂😂 got these stories from a friend like when she complained a lot about the whole thing - the politics, the “yes man” employee, the competition, the working hours. it’s so relatable to my friend’s story! and she alr moved out tho. 😂 stay healthy! and will be enjoying more of your videos 😊
On the bright side you’ll learn a lot. For those of us who are not in such challenging environment have to be proactive else you’ll basically forget all your skills.
I was a “consultant” as a software engineer and it was not challenging, no engineering culture, a bunch of boomer managers that don’t code and never have. No growth, no technical expertise being built. Hopped to FAANG and will never look back. I think only a business major or data analyst that isn’t serious about data would enjoy it. For software engineers, the ones that majored in IT or don’t code will also enjoy it since the bar is so low.
I am stuck in this situation now. Applied to a SE job at a consultancy firm. Went through general training and then cloud training. Had a meeting with senior management about a role, said I wasn't that interested because it wasn't active dev work and their response was "I've been here 10 years and there isn't much dev work in [insert expensive location] because you are too expensive". Why advertise for a SE role then?
Omg I joined consulting last year because lost my old job to COVID (airline) and I can confirm all these points are true. I was not familiar making decks and stuff since I came from a more IT background and I had a manager would literally scream at me when I made mistakes on my decks though I would be spending until 11pm working on them after waking up at 6am. I was working from home and had to be available all the time in case he tells me do something - so much so I would forget to eat lunch or get up from desk even once cause I was scared I would miss something. The most horrible thing is one time on Sunday, I told him I was taking PTO the next day cause I wasn't feeling well and he literally told me - "next time please notify me earlier". Like wtf how am I supposed to know IN ADVANCE I wasn't feeling well?!!! Don't go into consulting! It's horrible. I'm planning to get my masters and hopefully leave within the next year.
Honestly, that manager sounds like a total assh*le. I once had a manager (not in consulting but another job long ago) yell at top of lungs in crazy anger like an ass too with super low EQ, bcuz I was calling out, which I rarely ever did, always worked weekends and I could barely even talk and muster any sound out of my voice and definitely felt sick. The crazy part was, saw him again years later n he gave such a cheerful greeting me as if we were such good friends. Psycho. I’ve seen that guy make females cry, young girls that worked there and even old women or woman that was a customer. So I can definitely empathize with you there. I was a lot younger too, I thought he was so rude and disrespectful and didn’t know what to do, unfortunately u want the job but if ur sick ur sick and people act like we are fovyrs, they are heartless. I wasn’t going in regardless, and other than that, whatever I’ll just ignore him. Back to you tho, Also, it was Sunday n u did notify n u weren’t feeling well. That person shouldn’t be a manager managing people or they should not get promoted prolly sorry bcuz there are either toxic ppl and who are power hungry or are so EQ deficient. I have heard of some people that take a whole vacation without planned in advance notice when work is really needed the most at quarters or something like that, and leaves loads of work on other ppl, I think that’s not thoughtful or nice either, especially if such short notice. In ur case tho, it’s better u stay home than go to work n if ur sick then getting others sick n who needs that?! Idk if it was emergency work that day u called out but if ur really not feeling well, n u need rest, like health is more important and some people forget that. I know a lot of ppl work frm home too but idk what ur situation is there. Maybe you could talk to someone about the manager? I hear they do reviews for them too? If you feel comfortable and if u feel trust n good vibes, maybe talk to their boss being like the director of the group? At the least I know a director can have much more time and experience, there are some good ones, and a manager could have just been promoted from being a senior associate, so not far off in difference. I hear some managers get pressure frm different sides but so can an associate if they also have like 10 bosses, so I’ve heard. idk if it’s the same rn tho, but also sounds like some groups and people are more lenient and take advantage but I think that depends on one’s own personality and work ethics. If that guy continues to act like that, do you think bringing that up to that director would help? Or possibly maybe tell the manager it’s inappropriate to yell at you like that for actually being sick?? It’s not producing a healthy work environment. Besides reviews, director, speaking to that manager or when the manager does that again on the spot, then I could only think of HR?? Jobs look at things like that too, how they manage people, some they look at are if they make mistakes, are truly knowledgeable, ofc the bs of politics n if they are friends, family even, or are liked n they know how to play the game, oh and of if they bring in money, but some people sounds like are promoted when they shouldn’t n that’s when ppl should speak up. If a person is sneaky or doing bad things, they do get caught and fired or something, if they lack doing their job, they’ll be warned and be on like a help/probationary type of program to see how they do before and of getting fired. But hopefully by notifying others of this manager, it should be about how the manager treats ppl and hopefully that’d be considered, yelling doesn’t always equal power but low eq ppl n power hungry think it makes them powerful n authoritative, but they just lack control. You might be saving many others from that managers treatment and saving the job a headache from keeping someone like that around. That’s not how they should be proving themselves. People can’t be expected to work to death or put work before health, unfortunately a lot of cold heartless jobs and ppl expect this. I do know some directors or managers will vouch for others by the way, in defense and for wlb! Good luck! Hope that helps! Oh by chance is it in a big 4 ur at, which one is it? I’m curious if ppl are worse in one than the other, I hear Deloitte may be a very cute throat type of environment.
Hi guys! I’ve worked for Kpmg for about 2 years now, I hate my life and have developed seasonal depression through the scheduled busy seasons. Take care!
Hey Mika, thanks for the perspective, it is true that any consulting jobs can be very demanding and these kind of workloads doest not give any concern for well being of a normal human. Nevertheless though from the business side we still need this kind of consultant often, especially in modern times. I think the government should took a real to remind these consulting agencies that those who worked for them are a real human being, so stop exploiting them so much.
Whew! You helped me dodge a bullet so to speak. I'm finishing my master's in Human Resource Management and Development at NYU in May 2023. Recruiters are after us, and my gut kept telling me I needed more of this kind of insight than what was being presented to us. Grateful.
I was so stressed out by trying not to be so stressed. 😅 A lot of the work culture you mentioned is also applied to a lot of other roles as well. These have been the last 4 years of my life. A lot of crises, everything is urgent no matter how well planning has been done there will always be something that's urgent and last minutes. And thing goes wrong all the time.
Some of the points apply not only to consulting jobs though - I loved how you spoke about the fight to get the "visibility projects" and "simply doing a good job is not enough" - like, totally, that's what I've seen in corporate/white collar jobs generally! (Amazon, Samsung, even small tech companies...) If you're a person who just wants to do a good job silently, you won't be a fit. You need to focus 90% of your time on aggressively selling yourself. So much bullshit...
Wow, I can relate to a lot of this. I am a consultant for a year and a half. But man the toxic work environment is something that gets under my skin. I am still learning how to deal with this properly but man some people are toxic as in putting themselves above you. I have an example where I was late 15 min and a colleague would talk bad about me because of it. Some days later, he was running late 45 min himself, I decided not to talk bad of him, he even thought I would use the opportunity to bash him and he apologized in a chat. I told him that I dont like putting people down for stuff like that and he shouldnt either. I see so many stuff like this being taken advantage of. Its like you always have to be onguard. Like on a project, I was doing the hard stuff while he was doing the easier stuff. You can get more done doing easy stuff and less when you do hard stuff. He would use that as a metric to say that he is good and that I am worse, he would do so behind my back and also since management and project managers are not technical they did slightly believe him. He was also playing politics behind my back to get a promotion over me, in the end we both had a raise. However I decided to quit anyway half a year later and go to another company because of me having so many responsibilities while being in a junior position. I applied for a mid position and got it because I could convince them of my time at that difficult project and being able to take responsibilities. And sure it was a formula for burnout. Hope you will not encounter this, I mean promotion yes but not the toxicity :)
I'm here because of youtube recommendation, and so glad cause I didn't find any worst case about working at consulting company on google. I love your advice, please keep doing it!
So glad I work for a small consulting firm, rather than big 4. Totally different culture at smaller firms... we support each other, not compete against each other.
Very true ! As anything else, everyone is built to do certain things. Choosing the industry and job that is right for you is key. In Consulting , you sometimes get carried away with the trend ignoring your inner voice. So make sure you listen to inner voice and choose what is right for you. You will have a better life.
Your video is a concise, sweet and creative version of "House of Lies: How Management Consultant Steal Your Watch and Then Tell You the Time." Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
When you share the story about getting anxiety from a notification bell and having to Hotspot in the car to work on a deck asap... oh my God I really relate also! Where are you working now
This is very correct. I’m leaving a big 4 and I would also add that.. they are cheap. People think if you join you’ll be making stacks. No, you’ll be the worker ant and that is where you’ll stay. You can get multiple high end certs, experience and accolades, but expect marginal raises by people who don’t know what you do on a day to day. You are only an asset if you’re quiet and CHEAP.
You're making one big big mistake! Once you get those high end certificates, experience, accolades, that's the KEY moment for you to RUN!!!! Due to the fact you have so much well versed experience accumulated from different business and branches, you have a versatility other candidates don't have.
As a consultant, I agree with everything you said especially #3 xD And for the sake of viewers: I will add two important points to it: 6- The actual services you provide is not real consultancy: : The international big companies do research based on different competitors and show their client what other companies are doing since they have the exposure, but the employees we have aren't really technical nor experienced, they literally enter each sector and they're not specialized people to give actual helpful consultancy. 7-A lot of dirty work/ unnecessary work : Formatting, plotting data, cleaning slides, etc. ( The presentation is more important than the content) And many international companies will ask you to fill on a daily basis your hours in details, forecasting projects, client details, opening projects, reserving rooms, bringing new clients, new subcontractors ( A lot of admin work goes under the consultant responsibility)
I just got about five and a half minutes into your video and noped out of this career path. Thank for giving me your inside perspective. You have just saved me a whole lot of time, and even protected me from the misery, should I have gotten that type of job.
One couldn't have a said it better. I can vouch for every single thing she has said. The gist of it would be 'competition' which is fundamentally violence and is not easy to identify if you don't observe life closely. We all know what violence is, we do it and regret it later. I was lucky to work with leaders who were compassionate and supportive, but that's very unlikely in big4.
I think it also depends on the firm you work at and the type of consulting you do. Deloitte for example, is known to be pretty competitive & backstabbing, and offers no wlb which is why I rejected my offer from there. KPMG and Slalom on the other hand surprisingly has good WLB on average and the Big 4 I'm at is really friendly. I don't think I've ever felt the need to compete with anyone else. It's all dependent on your team at the end of the day and if you're lucky to be in a supportive practice. (E) just saw that you did work at Deloitte. Yep, that explains a lot. That place is toxic af...
I have read on some business site comparing these companies n yeah, saw some comments about Deloitte n the people and someone even saying the way the even practice with others in the big 4 when they are both working for a client, like they don’t share info when they should, are deliberate, and mistrusting it sounded, when people have to work together for the client and it would work more smoothly. I don’t think it was EY, I might have to ask. KPMG sounds awesome just on the whole wlb! Like Kim said, she’d receive emails to get something done asap like it was an emergency only to find out it wasn’t and that just puts unnecessary stress on people, as well as having people work the weekend bcuz of the client OR because the other group took longer doing their part.
That sounds horrible! I also hate the fact how these companies try to sell the idea of how great it is to work as a consultant...thank you for shedding light on this issue!
Interesting video. You definitely have managed to successfully discourage many of us from doing consulting. Personally, I love writing and I'm very good writer and I have written a book. However, writing is a very slow and refined process. I don't think I could function in that kind of environment. I think the work would actually make me hate writing.
I don't think these things should exactly scare you off. I'm not a consultant, but I came onto a rotational leadership program where the expectation is pretty damn high and everything is fast paced. I think these environment helps provide tons of experience in a short amount of time and really mold you and your career. A good advice I got from one of the leaders in my company is to go and do the hard work no one wants. You'll learn and grow so much more than doing a job You're comfortable with. If you find out later on it's not for you, at least you can transition with these major experiences on your belt
I'm currently working in a tech consultancy; I'm pretty new but my experience has been so different so far. I'm blessed to be in a good company that actively prioritises my wellbeing and work-life balance.
Tech consulting might be different. I work at big4 as a tech junior consultant and I haven't experience nothing she mentioned. I guess management consulting attracts these competitive hotshots playing stupid politics.
Advantage of tech consulting is that you have an ability to “make something happen” that is more concrete. It’s easier to prove that software you’ve developed works and meets the client’s specifications than to prove that a business plan or strategy you’ve put together will do the same. There is still some politics, because you have to manage the disconnect between what the client wants and what is actually possible, but it’s not like management consulting where more often than not you are really being hired by an executive to carry out their political schemes against their rivals.
I 100% agree, especially working for some of the “big” consulting firm. Here the work politics are toxic and burn-out inducing. I also worked for smaller software companies as a consulting expert. Here the politics are way less and it’s easier to differentiate yourself in bringing value because of specialist/niche knowledge. If you value work-life balance and hate politics. Stay away from the “glamorous” big 4.
After being into consulting for over 7 years, I can say is it's really challenging job both mentally and physically. By end of week you will be too exhausted to even get out of bed. Forget about weekend fun n all🤣🤣 It's doable till the time one is single. After having a family really tough and one has to ultimately compromise on growth. It's like constantly on a fight between and personal and professional aspirations.
I'm a freelancer and I usually go direct to client but once I went through a consultancy firm and it was one of the worst mistakes of my life lol. Essentially they wanted someone to be a punching bag for the client while they kept many other consultants doing very little in the clients organisation. I figured this out pretty quickly and started standing up frr myself and they fired me after 2 months. It was well payed but was toxic for sure . It worked out fine for me as I picked up work immediately and I just keep the gig off my CV. You have to be a total politician to prosper in these environments but there is a lot of money to be made if you can do it.
I used to think consulting is the ideal job after graduating - but I think the big 4 is overrated imo. Maybe if you join the Big 3 it's a different story. But If you join either as a fresh/junior you don't get much exposure unless you go out your way to build some connections that can help you climb faster. Especially in asian markets, top management always has political agendas. And projects take forever, sometimes you get stuck in a project. If you'd like to still learn and have a parallel exposure in management/consulting, my advise is try doing B2B sales in a large company. The pace is faster, shorter client lifecycle (close a deal, move to the next), faster time-to-exposure to various industries and their challenges, and you can make a ton of money at the same time meeting new people. The best part is...In Sales your numbers will protect you wherever you go. So your merits is directly translated to your reputation - which means it's a fair game, no biasness. You can have the whole team hating you, but if you bring in the revenue, you're untouchable. And the relationships you build, revenue you created, track record you established will follow you everywhere, including your next company
I can actually get what you went through, I co-founder a startup and what your describing is VERY similar to what I went through 😭 I wish I had said 'no' more often
I have had a very similar experience: 1) extreme micromanagement 2) underpaid and feeling very undervalued in general 3) people meddling in my work duties, competing for projects, career ladder, etc. 4) simply working good enough is not enough, trying to squeeze everything out of me 5) constant bombardment of messages made my nervous system dysregulated, started to have insomnia
I just finished watching the entire 9 seasons of suits and that drama series really seems to portray whatever you are saying now ....granted law firms are also really considered consulting firm in the legal aspect of things ....
Most office jobs are like that. Especially, politics, you can never avoid politics especially as you go higher up the ladder. It's a skill that anyone should hone early on in your career.
@8:20 - Bingo! I work for a pretty famous consulting firm and was told the same exact words last week :D. Well, dropping my papers soon and moving to a product based company!
I just got accepted at one of the big 4 consulting firm. I am currently watching your video while I am writing this comment and I think I can relate to some of the points in the video such as working with others or competitive environment since I have heard it before from others too. However, when it comes to politics, I'm not the type of person that like to bring other people down just to shine brighter but I have heard about office politic too. I am still new at my current company but I am hoping that I can do well. I am not saying that I am going to work forever at this company because I don't know what is going to happen in the future but I just really hope that I am going to do well. This video is very informative! ^^ Love this!
Sales Consultanting is for someone who is into improving one's self. It's for people who want to work on their communication skills. It also matters what company and products you are selling. A lot of factors matter. But more importantly are you on your purpose? If not burn out will get you.
I think this is an interesting video. I have worked all my life in a Big4 firm and I agree that 1) teamwork is essential 2) you need to be able to adapt to change quickly and be competitive 3) you need to love what you do, because you´ll be doing a lot of it 4) you need to be able to work within a hierarchical structure and if your boss tells you to do something, obviously within the ethical guidelines, you have to do it 5) you need to know how to think coherently and communicate verbally and in writing. If you think about it, all of these requirements (except maybe 5) are necessary in this hypercompetitive world we live in. So if you go to work at Apple, Tesla, Google, Coca-Cola, Citi, Pfizer, or any other big company you will encounter teamwork, competition, a lot of work, a boss, an you will need communication skills. To go even further, lets say you want to really do well in World of Warcraft (WoW) (the massively multiplayer online role-playing game), and I mean make money you will need 1) teamwork 2) be immensely competitive 3) love what you do and put in 12+hours 4) you simply cannot do as you please, you need to follow the plan which is like taking orders and 5) being a skillful communicator is definitely a plus. So, bottom line, if you don´t like working in teams, are not competitive, want to work 8 hours a day, can´t take orders and can´t communicate all I have for you is GOOD LUCK. By the way, WLB is all about priorities. My priorities are my family and my work, that´s it. That is my balance and I love it.
Unfortunately, being competitive and being a team player are contradicting terms, I currently still am working as a consultant in one of the big four companies. People say things just to be politically correct, but if you don't perform as they expect, e.g. working after hours and weekends, you immediately get judged. Also unfortunately, when people get promoted based on merits, it is not indicative of whether they will be a good manager or not, people and projects are mismanaged all the time, and the nature of being in a big corporate company exacerbates the issue. Leaders are not leaders and are very manipulative, they are essentially sales persons, they say things just to get what they want, they always have a hidden agenda. I've met bad managers who won't even take responsibility for their own shortcomings and put the blame on their team, it's extremely bad.
I'm a senior software engineer consultant with Slalom and I have to say all these things are so foreign to me. It's been 4 years ans still goinf strong. One of our core values is authenticity and senior leadership is serious about this. You don't have to be a social butterfly to do your job. You must be able to be your professional self. And it's not like there's nothing ugly about consulting but at least our leadership is transparent about it.
@@anarki777 No one does before starting. Thats why you should look for small consulting companies. They are more likely to hire you and you will learn a lot more in contrast to working at a big consulting firm right from the beginning. Also maybe management consulting isn't the best way to start a career because you will have no practical knowledge about management. If you want to go for that you start to work in a department of some company as an inhouse consultant or a normal employee where you will learn how to manage internal processes and how to improve them. Consultancies need people that understand business and you will gain that knowledge better by working with and on internal processes.
@@bimjean1053 - I'm already 32, bro. I'm not starting from the bottom now, to maybe have a management consultancy job when I'm in my 40's or something. The truth is, you need to get a good job soon after leaving university while you're still in your early 20's. This sets off the whole trajectory of your career.
Alright I talked about why consulting might not be a right fit. Click here to watch a video on why I thought consulting was worth it in the end: th-cam.com/video/eaTnQnjnGO8/w-d-xo.html
Just now I mailed to delloite for a job and TH-cam recommended this video. This big tech companies are harvesting our data :(
What position did you start as before consultant or was that where you began at the company?
@@tylermcdonald4375 this was my job out of undergrad!
@@MikaKim thank you!
I'm a consultant. A psychiatric consultant. It's quite different.
don't join consulting if...
1. you do not enjoy working with others 1:06
2. you hate change and competition 2:48
3. you want a work life balance 4:19
4. you have a hard time saying no 7:03
5. you hate writing 9:08
Thank you very much
Thanks buddy
Thanks!!
❤️
thank you for saving me 10 minutes
"Why do you want to join consulting?"
"For the exit opportunities."
That''s why most people go into audit, that's why I wanted to go into audit. But instead I wound up in tax. I like it so far.
@LaMelo Ball I'm still pretty new, I started last January. I work for Armanino and so far it's nothing like that. My worst work weeks have been 55 minimum billable hours and everyone is super awesome and likes working here. I have peers at Deloitte tax and other Big 4 firms and while I don't hear anything about stepping on one another a common complaint is hours and one of my peers who previously worked at PwC said it was all bad pretty much. People do generally seem happier at National and regional firms. I would do your best and hopefully you land. If it's your only offer take it and if you get more than one consider your options at the end of the recruiting cycle.
@LaMelo Ball interning doesn't mean full time. so you can treat interning as an experience in which you evaluate if its a good fit or not and then if not, you can rerecruit for full time. consulting is probably a lot more competitive than tax.
What's an exit opportunity?
@LaMelo Ball i thought u play basketball???
Consulting. Get in, earn the bag $$, learn skillsets, network, and get out.
+1
lol, how do you earn Big $$...
He said $$ not $$$$
@@harlyslamm2888 You get yourself hired by a client at a level (and salary) you would never get if you came through the front door. Not bad for a dude with only 3 years of experience.
So how many years you would advise?
For young people leaving University -> joining a Big-4 consultancy for 3 to 4 years WILL help you learn what would take 10 years in an organisation. My advice is join a consultancy and gather as much information (structures, methodologies, etc knowledge slides, process assurance , assessment check lists, etc) and leave after 3 years to work for an organisation. Of course, if you enjoy your work, you may decide remain put.
Hey, if you had to choose between an audit or management consulting graduate scheme, which would be the better option for a future move into deal advisory, particularly M&A. And then into IB/PE?
@@adamlasry1691 thanks for the info, I'm curious why you would pick consulting over audit? Due to more transferable skills? I spoke to another M&A senior in the big 4 who said audit just slightly edges over consulting due to more technical knowledge. But the move can be done from consulting too
Is this opinion also applicable for sustainability/ESG consulting jobs?
This
@@HtheKing A lot folks who work in M&A Financial Advisory bucket at big 4 accounting firms spend some time in audit. I've seen some folks get the roles right out of school (this is tougher to do). From what I have seen, folks with some audit experience are generally able to get up to speed rather quickly because of the transferability of their audit background (hard skills). Have seen those same folks leave and go into banking, corporate development, in-house M&A teams, PE, VC, and/or consulting (operations) after. Management consulting at the big 3 (Bain, McKinsey, BCG) generally looked at as a tad more prestigious than even a big 4 for some work streams and even greater barrier to entry. So if you have the options to be at one of those in Management consulting, I would say, it considering, even over a big 4. Really depends what your goal is. I think after those Big 3 consulting, Big 4 accounting firms are next and some argue even better starting place for the depth of services offered, culture, and networking. I would say if you want to position yourself for the jump by leveraging management consulting (maybe transferring from audit or M&A to the consulting), of the big 4, Deloitte may have the advantage, only because their consulting group is the biggest of the big 4 and generally rank 4th on the list of top consulting firms. Sounds like you are in a good spot either way, best of luck.
Learning how to say "no" is a vital skill no matter what your job is and where you work.
knowing when to say no is really the most important skill.
Worst people are those that always seem to say no.
Another is saying yes but can't deliver and blame you because you did not know they are incompetent and don't acknowledge it.
So if you know you are good, the tendency is work will be pilled into your face and no one appreciates you and just complains if you don't deliver somehow because you have tons of items to do, all tactical and lots of technical debt.
So I have learned to always minimize tactical even though 90% of work is tactical in consultancy. Planning is still strategic regardless they say it is tactical. Because at the end of the day, if issues happen, they will not accept the blame and you will not get enough time to fix problems. So you should always do something in a way no blowback comes back to you, and say No to stuff that you know will cause blowback. Say no to things damn if you do, damn if you don't. Might as well be damn if you don't. 😂 Who cares if they get angry. They will still get angry if you do it.
@@earlnoli Exactly !
I had a colleague that would always underestimate the lenght of a task and then, obviously, would be late. He was meaning well and trying to say what he thought people wanted to hear. Sadly, that led to many people being upset with him.
I knew that so I would always ask him to reconsider his first assessment. But not everyone is like this.
Of course, you need to learn WHEN to say NO. But first you've got to learn HOW to say NO.
So many people are non confrontational and cannot refuse when asked.
If you're a pushover, you're going to get flooded with work.
Really agree with you bro
I have a superior who cannot says no, even when he doesn't have tha authority to say yes or doesn't know if it's possible to do (I'm in the military now, so he is not my direct superior but is of a superior rank and working in the same department).
So when someone needs a modification on one of the systems we have, they come to me, I say no can't do (since I'm the specialist I have authority to do this), they them go to him and ask if we (the department can delivery this), he says yes and come and give me a order to do, since now is a order from a superior ranking officer I have to do.
But since I'm the specialist I have to do, but I'm not obligated to say when I will delivery because the priorities of the projects is decided by our boss who is way above him on the hierarchy.
And this is the reason I have changes requests with more than three years.
And more pilling up.
@@foca2002 Wow ! Sounds like you're in quite the pickle... Good thing you can at least adjust your own deadlines.
Managers that say "yes" whithout asking their experts first are baffling to me.
I got my first job at a Tier 1 engineering firm in environmental consulting. I was honestly shocked at the game-playing, manipulation, competition and aggressiveness of my colleagues. Me being someone who cares about others' wellbeing, didn't know what hit me. It is unbelievable how these organisations can promote such a toxic culture. I was efficient and others took credit for my work, stole my projects and more. Two years in I had severe burnout and it took me years to recover but I still feel the effects 10 years later and has severely impacted my career, finances and personal life. Nothing is worth working in such a toxic environment. Thanks for the video. Good luck to anyone wanting to pursue a career in consulting - my advice is to never climb over others in your journey to 'success'.
Aww I’m so sorry to hear that!!! I HOPE you started trying to stand up and speak up for yourself a lil more, because yeah unfortunately there are very sneaky backstabbing and lying people who either try to steal credit or throw blame somewhere else, they are one of the worst and definitely make for an ugly environment! Good luck to you wherever ur at now!
The work places are full of incompetent people who need to play games to get ahead. That's what they do when they go to work every day. Pretend to work some of the time and spend most of the time taking advantage of the people who really care about the work.
@@sunway1374full agree
this is what happens in most organisations and its sickening.The culture makes u wanna throw up the first week.ihv been so unlucky with these fucked up companies with people who would bend and break every bit of morality just to get higher up the ladder.
@@ceerod9861you would think remote work helped the situation somewhat.
Growing up my dad was a consultant. Although his career definitely provided us with a very nice life, all my childhood I watched how he was overworked, always traveling, and always taking calls and e-mails and meetings when we were supposed to be having “family” time.
When it came time for me to graduate college, he told me explicitly: choose any career path except consulting.
So weird my dad is a senior systems engineer and he had that same life and told me the same thing
Here's some more advice: Avoid investment banking and corporate law
@@abelievereverrising283 Dumb advice.
Just cause you're not built for it, doesn't mean others aren't as well.
@Mira Bella it's all about what you enjoy. If you truly enjoy your job, it's like binge watching a series or playing an addictive video game. I know this firsthand as a data engineer. If I do stuff I like and make progress I just want to keep going.
In that context working long hours isn't that bad. It's when you do grindy and boring work that it becomes draining.
@@mirabella2154 This thread was about family life. If you don't want a family, then sure go ahead. Read between the lines...
The correct answer for the famous interview question ‘tell me about yourself’ is “I’d rather not”.
😂
They don't have idea why the asked that
Anyone dare to do so?😂
or Good question, can you tell me what you know so far?
XD
I've been with a consulting firm for nearly 25 years. I'm a partner and on the leadership team. Mika is absolutely correct. I'm fortunate because I work for a relatively small company and we've created a family environment. The management and leadership are key to a great experience-that's critical to evaluate when considering joining a consulting firm. Work life balance is always something to monitor. However, being overworked isn't restricted to consulting. I think this a consistent theme in the majority of IT projects.
I am an MBA student and I will finish my course later this year, I watch this video and I got worried but when I read your comment I feel good because I thought all the bosses are like this they don't care about their employees and will not be supportive but after reading your comment I feel ok because there are some bosses that can be supportive and look after their employees WLB.
What was your sallary as consultant..
How are kids going to consult for big people?
Family environment 🚩🚩🚩
@@recursion. Lol at the end of the day you are still a replaceable asset but having a nicer working environment where everyone isn't trying to screw you over is still better than a shit one.
I’m so glad I didn’t get my consulting grad scheme , it was truly a blessing. I ended up working for start up and I’m so grateful I did. When things don’t work out it’s because something better is coming!
Such bullshit. You think about consulting everyday that’s why you clicked on this video.
@@111Econ Jeez bro no need to hate lol. I think things do tend to work out in the end.
hey please give me some advice how to start to work in a start up or consulting. I want to change my career
It's the £700,000 average salary PwC partners in the UK earn why I searched for Big 4 accountancy videos.
@@HtheKingNot for everybody, though. Plenty of young people have died of heart attack every year due to the cut-throat education/corporate environment.
In my own experience working as a consultant, the most mentally draining thing is the intense unfair competition between colleagues. In my opinion, this is due to the individual growth structure in the consulting career and not in growing the business practice as a work team.
You need to consider the culture of the organization in your decision-making process. Publicly traded, privately held, and employee-owned companies all have unique cultures based on how they incentive growth and professional development.
Very interesting because the research says that collaborative working cultures tend to produce greater burnout because you're not just doing your own job. Japan and other Asian countries are extremely collaborative, and people do burn out in this part of the world.
@@alanjyuProbably the reality is that, in late, frenetic capitalism, humans are burning out everywhere.
My own experience: unhealthy competition among colleagues. They might not say/show it in front of you, but you will definitely get hit with something like this: “oh I heard this person was so this so that” from another manager.
Toxic environment.
performance reviews are sabotaged by peers that u trust most. toxic af backstabbing competition
YES! The worst part of this job! Absolutely hunger games type!
Em chào anh. Em đang có định hướng theo consultant, em có thể connect anh được không ạ?
She is right. I really appreciate her coming out and presenting these realities.
This is so true. I got in to one of the big four right after graduation and quit after a year for these reasons - I was literally burning out. I wish all new grads aspiring to go into consulting especially with the big four would actually listen to advice like this and assess if they can actually fit into this world before blindly delving into it.
Was this in the UK? Or america?
Nope. It was in Nigeria
Did they make you travel a lot or something?
@@temitopeolatinwo So sorry! What was it like? Recently got interested in the idea of working in consulting but don't know especially in this country and our crazy work ethics.
Will like to hear more. Considering working in consulting but work life balance is key to me
Such a good video! When I was in uni, consulting was so overhyped and it felt like everyone wanted to get into consulting. Nobody ever talks about why NOT to get into consulting! Glad that my introverted self is in a research-focused role instead 🤣
May I ask what specific role your in now?
I’m also curious ☺️
@@kawaiikoibito3268 hellooo, I'm in an analyst role for a financial markets data company! doing research & write ups on various market transactions
@@RuzeReine That sounds super interesting, can you give a bit more info on what you do day to day?
@@RuzeReine how does one get into that role with no experience?
My mother said to never compare yourself to others. You can reach great success. Too much competition divides the team and customers. It was good that you walked away from it.
thanks mika for giving an honest view of consulting!
it's such a breath of fresh air to have someone just talk about the facts, without trying to sell us the dream
back when i was in uni, everybody would talk about how consulting was the dream job, and literally all my peers (and myself) tunnel visioned into getting into bain, mckinsey, big 4 etc.
but yeah, thanks for giving a straight & down to earth explanation of the consulting world
Consulting is outsourcing. Only MBB is real consulting
Did not expect this video to be 100% truth. My first job was in consulting and I had no idea what I was getting myself into and about none of the things mentioned here. Working full days, I never said no, maneger was manipulating us and also taking the best projects. I didn't feel we are a team but like everyone is against one another. I was burned out and unhappy. I'm not there anymore and never going back to consultancy
Which firm did u work for? Did u ever share any of these issues with anyone? I hear certain ones have a much more competitive cut throat atmosphere n therefore less friendly. It’s like maybe ppl throwing others under the bus or generally just watching out for themselves only. It could also be that people in general just suck too lol. It is weird tho and unfortunate when I hear stories of people of any level lying, stealing or trying to take things like credit, hours, or just not give credit to really good people. N I’ve heard, like you might say about people not being a team, others will do less work, leave it to others to pick up slack, lie, or even take up more time for one group working on protect to leaving the other group with a fraction of the time the other group took and is then expected to do it the day of and weekends. It’s real if ugly and selfish behavior. So I wonder, is it the same in all the big 4? I hope you also leave a comment to whatever firm you worked for, to help point out obvious unhealthy behaviors that put stress or make people feel alone, and like Mika said, regarding clients, some can be temperamental. That emergency thing she speaks of, I hear yeah some people are notorious for that, which they don’t think of the unhealthy unnecessary pressure they are giving people and then you wonder why stress kills people! Oh n then like Mika said lol it wasn’t even really an emergency! Those are very selfish people! Good luck tho wherever ur at now, hope it’s better and a better environment! :)
if you don't mind me asking, what did you do after consulting?
Me as an introvert: I had been a consultant for 2.5 years. I was always depressed, anxious, severely underpaid, had no work life balance, and always feeling burnt out.
It was clearly a mistake but had no other options. Now that I moved to another country, I'm having a last stage interview for a consulting firm next week and I'm already thinking of calling it off when all of a sudden your video shows me and reminds me of the horrors I endured 😂 NEVER AGAIN
Heey, did you call it off? 😃
@@_Sharon_J Yes, I did call it off
@@malek4581 😁
@Malek did you end up changing careers? Would love to know how you're doing now 😊
@@malek4581 ive been through this in the banking industry for 2.5 yrs just like you. Just find something more stable. Honestly i recommend something like procurement or a support role in a multinational company that has their own resources and doesnt rely on consulting much. Im in the food industry and i much prefer it.
Haha. Excellent summary. I also worked for one of the big four when I was young (in my time it was the big five). Most of the frustrations you have described are due to poor management skills and absolutely tragic communication between the senior levels, who deal with the senior leaders of the client, and the people on the ground who actually do the work. Consultancies are not the only sector that suffers from this. But hey, we were young and were surfing on all the adrenaline and cortisol this lifestyle brings :)
I personally enjoy the regular change, the working with a different client and a different team each six months, but I joined a smaller company later in life where I had more flexibility - and I learned that cherishing the lunch hour improves the team dynamics and work/life balance improves focus and productivity. The "you do this asap because I said so" it's just an ego ride which is actually bad for business in the long term.
As a tech consultant, I truly agree with each and every word Mika said here. Being from a computer science background, I feel out of space, most of the time because of the sheer chaos.
Thank you Mika for creating this video, because I don't think I've ever seen anyone being this honest about the consulting job. I seriously would've never figured this out myself as a recent college graduate. Keep up the good work!(:
Thank you for your comment! That really means a lot :) If you have any other insights or questions please feel free to let me know :)
@@MikaKim What exactly is consulting? Is it a business analyst type role?
One thing I learned pretty quickly is that if you feel like you're in an "ok" or "neutral" mood, then most people will interpret that you're in a bad mood or that you don't like them. And you will be weeded out (not just in consulting, but from any group) very quickly based on that alone.
That comment made ZERO sense?!
So true. Making a happy face everyday is often considered as fake-attitude but people can't often handle the normal neutral mood of the person
Ooohhh I wish I could shake your hand right nooooowww, you get it!!!!
@@Belihoney That's the right energy! Right here! You get it too!
I fucking hate being chipper when i'm not in the mood, i consider people who are stoked all the time as fucking terrorists.
i'm a lawyer and these are the exact same cons for the law career! when i hear my phone goes ding i get anxious every single time lol
Accurate (I'm was senior mgr, Big4, as well as a former boutique mgmt consulting firm). It is not everyone's cup of tea. Ironically enough, I spent time as a police officer early in my life. That sort of prepared me for (1) talking with plenty of random people to get information, (2) dealing with uncooperative people that lie to you (3), long working hours under a great deal of stress. It helped that I had good mentors when I first moved into consulting but I found much of the social skills to be similar.
Hi, that's very funny, because I have a job interview for becoming a consultant next week and worked in my earlier life as a police officer as well. Would you decide for the same job if you had the choice again? I also have the option between deloitte consulting and in-house consulting from another company
@@dianahuhn3105 Life sometimes offer you opportunities and if the timing is right, take it and don't look back. I suggest you take the DC option as it would give you much greater exposure and exit options. Consulting is really about exit options, which you will not get if you go in-house. NB: I was from Deloitte Consulting until last month :)
What is it that you do now?
@@dianahuhn3105 Can I ask how you both went from police into consulting in terms of study or application route? It seems to me that career change is not easy as most job applications are looking for recent graduates.
@@Nick-tp4xy sure, in my case I had to quit police service directly after getting detective degree, because of medical issues. So I restarted and studied business with real estate specification (at least it was completely paid by my employer back then). Thanks to a security project I managed during my second study experience, I got a scholarship for a semester abroad and then after my second study degree it was pretty easy to find a job, because of the "Police USP".
coming from a big 4 tax group I agree with all points! I do see more and more people leaving big 4 (especially post covid) and poor souls remaining will have more and more to work on until the whole industry reforms
I really hope that kind of culture can change for the better :(
That's right! Attrition rate is super high right now and the ones that stayed back are definitely feeling that burnout. I guess after a point you just stop caring!
Hey same is the case with Taxation department . As i was thinking to join it.
Whenever you're tempted by the astronomically high salaries in consulting, see this video. I once provided some spreadsheet advice to a Goldman Sachs junior consultant. She was often on the phone (on a Sunday afternoon) asking her husband (another GS consultant) when they were ever getting together. I wondered, "How did they find time to get married?"
This is a lie
stop caping bro 😂
I started my career with a big four consultancy. And can 100% relate with your experience. Thanks for sharing.
What exactly is consulting? Is it a business analyst type role?
@@MrBunny53It's actually 'body leasing'.
I'm not yet in consulting, but I do have some life experience. I think this is good thought and I appreciate that you are leaving a lot of the anger out. I do feel that most of these five things will make you a better person. Namely learning to work with people, adapting to change, challenging yourself, learning to say no, and understanding that writing and reading are a way of life in the white collar world. I would say the only one that is personally detrimental or violates personal growth is #3 work life balance. I will certainly have to navigate and negotiate what I want and am willing to do on this front, but nevertheless I think everyone should be striving to self-actualize in the other four areas so I don't think overall the changes that consulting brings is a bad thing. Note: I realize this is not the point you are are trying the make. I'm just point out that this video may be a call up to those watching it, rather than a call out on the big 4.
I used to work for an MBB company with a very different approach to work/personal time. We would never contacted on weekends. Also we had a lot of more mature consultants who were more happy to say no. Also, working long hours is usually an example that the manager hasn’t clarified the story that they wish to tell.
Tgh
the closing sentence!!
accurate video.
A little advice from a programmer who worked for one of the big consulting companies... if you have the time:
1) when starting a new project, you should be spending 12 hours a day learning the ins and outs of the system(s) for the first couple of months
2) take as much responsibility as possible
3) Make your company not be able to live without you
4) When you get your raise, interview at other companies and tell them your new salary (or bump it up a little... you know 401k, education, ect.) - get offers from these companies
5) bring these offers to your current company and in my experience they will match it - so every year you essentially get 2 raises.
6) repeat steps 2-5 every year.
bruh 😂
I'd rather live, thanks
@@SantoRedentor lmao
I heard one of the benefits of being a consultant is being surrounded by a lot of assertive type A personalities and learning to become the same.
That's just the nice way of saying you're surrounded by assholes and become one.
@@zvxcvxcz No, just because some people have strong personalities doesn't meet they are assholes
Wrong! They are.
In consulting for 1.5 hours, can relate a lot. Hate being understaffed on a project and very frustrated with partners over promising work which makes me have no work life balance
I'm really sorry to hear that and I feel your pain! One thing that helped me push through this was to come up with a support system (colleagues, friends, family) and also to make a plan of what you foresee your career looking like. So for instance if you have an exit strategy in mind, then you have that end light you can look forward to and have a purpose while going through these grindy times
@@MikaKim shouldn't there be some law that would punish managers for creating such environments where you have to work insane hours just not to be fired. that's like being silently threatened all your career life.
@@XAE_A_Xii there is no such thing as HR in a business because HR is owned by the business
@@ReedoAce HR is human resource, many organisations have this department, unless we are speaking about different stuff
@@XAE_A_Xii yes but the HR org is not autonomous. If there is an employee that goes to HR because there is an issue, HR will conduct an investigation and speak to the people that run the business. The employee thinks HR will look out for them when in reality HR only works on behalf of the business executives. It is the business that calls the shots on HR. HR are just employee like any other that live pay packet to pay packet. They can be disposed of at anytime
I worked as a Sr. consultant with PwC and it was an amazing experience. I am now a Sr. VP at an international bank but would love to go back into consulting any time. Consulting gives you a big picture and the networking is great, however, you will be poached. I used to get at least one call/ a day for an interview when I was with PwC. Finally I left PwC for a 80% hike and there has been no looking back since then
Apparently she had been a business analyst. How long have you worked as a senior cons? As you have experinced, there are tons of errend in consulting and when someone climbs higher in these Ponzi organizations, they throw all those errend to juniors without any empathy.
You make no sense. If you would go back anytime, why arent you doing it?
Cool story bro
@@reynanregaladonow6426 Probably because he may love his current job similarly and also he gets paid 80% more right now. When people say they would go back to an career field at any time, they usually base that statement on the job activities and functions, not external factors such as pay and competition.
How can i start my career as a consultant. What certification should I do?
Please help
After I graduated, McKinsey tried to lure me into their world with pizza parties etc which I never attended. I was never convinced about the consulting approach and what this kind of job does. I know several who joined consulting companies - they all left, I heard horrible stories about mgmt and working hours there. Colleague competition seems to be at its worst there, too. People join consulting companies for the salary and opportunities which might open after leaving the consulting company. I understand now that already the interview process selects personalities of candidates who are very adaptable, socially, and yes-sayers. Nothing I personally fit in. Glad I never applied. Your video confirms that I would hate this job. Hey, I don't even like travelling!
Sounds fake, pizza party really lol? McKinsey doesn't give a shit about you. While you sit here typing this nonsense there are tens of thousand of students waiting in line trying to to break into MBB.
And what did you end up doing?
@@kolobok3882 Science. Successfully for > 20 years now.
I have been working in consulting for most of my career. What I hate the most about it, is how little value non deliverable requirements matter to them. For example software architecture, which I value greatly, isn't taken into account. Projects I have lead the architecture of have been delivered on or ahead of deadlines. But to a consultancy, how maintainable, flexible etc the code base is doesn't matter much, as the code base doesn't belong to them. They, in the end, just want to deliver in the time that was agreed upon
It really depends on the personal choices. What you said, I agree. But I feel every job have some advantages and disadvantages. Few people may not like consulting jobs but there are a lot of opportunities and scope for consulting role and also salary is good for this role.
Even a business analyst has to write. But somehow it improves our writing skills too and helps to understand project requirements.
For Inside Sales role also, we need to write, convince the customers and its target based. So every job have some advantages and disadvantages.
As you said, we need to work with different clients, which is good. We will eventually learn to adapt, we will be interactive, proactive. If we need money, we need to do hardwork.
It's a mystery to me how hyper-competitive people can also be good team players and likable to colleagues, given they're (intentionally/unintentionally) trying to one up everyone all the time or tend to dominate projects. But somehow it works for some people. Hello from Law btw, 어느정도 공감이 가요 ^^
Great point. A psychologist on workplace politics has addressed this topic. To paraphrase him, they are all narcissists and all narcissists recognise one another and get on very well because they all think alike and share the same negative energy.
People who have a moral compass stick out like a sore thumb and are quickly removed from the environment.
@@davidelu5313 I have met several of them at my past workplace.
Glade I'm out from there and building my own business.
Anyone with empathy can see their insanity, they seeems possessed with evil.
@@charlt7670 You are so funny
They are good team players for a reason. Most companies have peer to peer recognition, they fish for it like a Bonus coins in Video game ! Or in review meeting they inform their managers they helped so and so in order to get hike / promotion. Human mind is wired for Recognition. Hyper competitive have more strong wiring!
It's called being a sociopath, or at least have enough cognitive-dissonance about the whole thing to pretend to be a sociopath.
Sociopathy is required for narcissists to work with anyone, especially other narcissists. Two narcissists are like vampires trying to suck each other's blood.
This was a great honest video! I think too many times consulting and similar industries are sugar-coated but I'm glad you kept things super transparent
My friends were consulting in their 20's. They were traveling all the time. When they got married they quit. They are in their 30's now.
What work did they do after their ,30's?
@@brigittabottlik7042 Same question!
@@brigittabottlik7042 being wives. Do they need another job?
@@my-vn8nw I did not write anything that should trigger your comment! I ask what did they do after they quit their job so obviously jobwise and moneywise....how did you put your mind on me meaning being a wife is not enough i have no idea because i did not write anything like that. in fact i am a wife and stay at home mom at the moment but you can not earn money by being a wife or mom. hence why i wrote what i wrote...
Ex-MBB here, don't know why I am here as you're preaching to the choir.
I took a consulting job after engineering cause it came easy and it was a pretty well known international firm, I stuck with it cause the pandemic spoiled my plans to job hop 😂
So I don’t have work life balance issues cause I was an inexperienced fresher but I see ALL of these problems plaguing my older colleagues
I also very casually say not to things cause I know I want to switch careers eventually
The main factor I stuck with the job was the last point in the video: I love to write 😁😁
Once I got the hang of what clients want to hear I was filling decks with numerical storytelling and thinking to myself wow I’m getting paid for this(not much but still😂)
I'm glad that you are able to stand up and say no to things because that is something I wish I did earlier in my career :/
Which firm? Sound like it has balance lol
What exactly is consulting? Is it a business analyst type role?
Note that the work life balance is mainly a HUGE problem in the big firms. I’m an engineering consultant in pharma and my work hours are great!
College has ruined "teamwork" for me, I hate working with others so I automatically hate this job.
Freaking truth
Ugh Same, is there any jobs that dont involved teamwork ?
@@mfvech7720 lol right?
@@duncansiror5033 my sister works as front office and she is lot happier, do u think that's one of non teamwork job ?
omg true. esp virtual group projects. in person group projects are better
I never seriously considered going into consulting but this just supports my suspicion that it's not for me. hate competition like that, need a healthy work-life balance, and absolutely despise writing 😅
hi, just found your channel from my timeline, and YESSS ALL OF THEM ARE EXACTLY TRUE 😂😂 got these stories from a friend like when she complained a lot about the whole thing - the politics, the “yes man” employee, the competition, the working hours. it’s so relatable to my friend’s story! and she alr moved out tho. 😂 stay healthy! and will be enjoying more of your videos 😊
On the bright side you’ll learn a lot. For those of us who are not in such challenging environment have to be proactive else you’ll basically forget all your skills.
I was a “consultant” as a software engineer and it was not challenging, no engineering culture, a bunch of boomer managers that don’t code and never have. No growth, no technical expertise being built. Hopped to FAANG and will never look back. I think only a business major or data analyst that isn’t serious about data would enjoy it. For software engineers, the ones that majored in IT or don’t code will also enjoy it since the bar is so low.
I am stuck in this situation now. Applied to a SE job at a consultancy firm. Went through general training and then cloud training. Had a meeting with senior management about a role, said I wasn't that interested because it wasn't active dev work and their response was "I've been here 10 years and there isn't much dev work in [insert expensive location] because you are too expensive". Why advertise for a SE role then?
Omg I joined consulting last year because lost my old job to COVID (airline) and I can confirm all these points are true. I was not familiar making decks and stuff since I came from a more IT background and I had a manager would literally scream at me when I made mistakes on my decks though I would be spending until 11pm working on them after waking up at 6am. I was working from home and had to be available all the time in case he tells me do something - so much so I would forget to eat lunch or get up from desk even once cause I was scared I would miss something.
The most horrible thing is one time on Sunday, I told him I was taking PTO the next day cause I wasn't feeling well and he literally told me - "next time please notify me earlier". Like wtf how am I supposed to know IN ADVANCE I wasn't feeling well?!!! Don't go into consulting! It's horrible. I'm planning to get my masters and hopefully leave within the next year.
I wish I had seen your comment earlier. 😢😢.
@@isiomaizegbune9622 can you tell me your experience please?
@@isiomaizegbune9622 what happend? Where do you live/work?
Honestly, that manager sounds like a total assh*le. I once had a manager (not in consulting but another job long ago) yell at top of lungs in crazy anger like an ass too with super low EQ, bcuz I was calling out, which I rarely ever did, always worked weekends and I could barely even talk and muster any sound out of my voice and definitely felt sick. The crazy part was, saw him again years later n he gave such a cheerful greeting me as if we were such good friends. Psycho. I’ve seen that guy make females cry, young girls that worked there and even old women or woman that was a customer. So I can definitely empathize with you there. I was a lot younger too, I thought he was so rude and disrespectful and didn’t know what to do, unfortunately u want the job but if ur sick ur sick and people act like we are fovyrs, they are heartless. I wasn’t going in regardless, and other than that, whatever I’ll just ignore him.
Back to you tho, Also, it was Sunday n u did notify n u weren’t feeling well. That person shouldn’t be a manager managing people or they should not get promoted prolly sorry bcuz there are either toxic ppl and who are power hungry or are so EQ deficient. I have heard of some people that take a whole vacation without planned in advance notice when work is really needed the most at quarters or something like that, and leaves loads of work on other ppl, I think that’s not thoughtful or nice either, especially if such short notice. In ur case tho, it’s better u stay home than go to work n if ur sick then getting others sick n who needs that?! Idk if it was emergency work that day u called out but if ur really not feeling well, n u need rest, like health is more important and some people forget that. I know a lot of ppl work frm home too but idk what ur situation is there. Maybe you could talk to someone about the manager? I hear they do reviews for them too? If you feel comfortable and if u feel trust n good vibes, maybe talk to their boss being like the director of the group? At the least I know a director can have much more time and experience, there are some good ones, and a manager could have just been promoted from being a senior associate, so not far off in difference. I hear some managers get pressure frm different sides but so can an associate if they also have like 10 bosses, so I’ve heard. idk if it’s the same rn tho, but also sounds like some groups and people are more lenient and take advantage but I think that depends on one’s own personality and work ethics. If that guy continues to act like that, do you think bringing that up to that director would help? Or possibly maybe tell the manager it’s inappropriate to yell at you like that for actually being sick?? It’s not producing a healthy work environment. Besides reviews, director, speaking to that manager or when the manager does that again on the spot, then I could only think of HR?? Jobs look at things like that too, how they manage people, some they look at are if they make mistakes, are truly knowledgeable, ofc the bs of politics n if they are friends, family even, or are liked n they know how to play the game, oh and of if they bring in money, but some people sounds like are promoted when they shouldn’t n that’s when ppl should speak up. If a person is sneaky or doing bad things, they do get caught and fired or something, if they lack doing their job, they’ll be warned and be on like a help/probationary type of program to see how they do before and of getting fired. But hopefully by notifying others of this manager, it should be about how the manager treats ppl and hopefully that’d be considered, yelling doesn’t always equal power but low eq ppl n power hungry think it makes them powerful n authoritative, but they just lack control. You might be saving many others from that managers treatment and saving the job a headache from keeping someone like that around. That’s not how they should be proving themselves. People can’t be expected to work to death or put work before health, unfortunately a lot of cold heartless jobs and ppl expect this. I do know some directors or managers will vouch for others by the way, in defense and for wlb! Good luck! Hope that helps! Oh by chance is it in a big 4 ur at, which one is it? I’m curious if ppl are worse in one than the other, I hear Deloitte may be a very cute throat type of environment.
Hi guys! I’ve worked for Kpmg for about 2 years now, I hate my life and have developed seasonal depression through the scheduled busy seasons. Take care!
Consultant or accountant ?
have mercy! LEAVE!!
Never stay in any job for 2 years if you hate it!
Hey Mika, thanks for the perspective, it is true that any consulting jobs can be very demanding and these kind of workloads doest not give any concern for well being of a normal human. Nevertheless though from the business side we still need this kind of consultant often, especially in modern times. I think the government should took a real to remind these consulting agencies that those who worked for them are a real human being, so stop exploiting them so much.
Can relate to the burnout. You have to learn to market yourself effectively. It’s not for everyone.
Whew! You helped me dodge a bullet so to speak. I'm finishing my master's in Human Resource Management and Development at NYU in May 2023. Recruiters are after us, and my gut kept telling me I needed more of this kind of insight than what was being presented to us. Grateful.
Where did you end up working?
@@andrzejowcz Hi! I did an internship last year and I am in law school at the moment.
Thank you very much for this very helpful informative video!
@sakisrouvas7112 That is true, you need an expert broker and account manager to make good profit from Bitcoin trade.
I worked 5 years at a Big Four - you are speaking from my heart!
I was so stressed out by trying not to be so stressed. 😅 A lot of the work culture you mentioned is also applied to a lot of other roles as well. These have been the last 4 years of my life. A lot of crises, everything is urgent no matter how well planning has been done there will always be something that's urgent and last minutes. And thing goes wrong all the time.
Some of the points apply not only to consulting jobs though - I loved how you spoke about the fight to get the "visibility projects" and "simply doing a good job is not enough" - like, totally, that's what I've seen in corporate/white collar jobs generally! (Amazon, Samsung, even small tech companies...)
If you're a person who just wants to do a good job silently, you won't be a fit. You need to focus 90% of your time on aggressively selling yourself. So much bullshit...
Its important to speak for yourself because you are a part of politics!
This is true, but is this possible when you're on client site?
Wow, I can relate to a lot of this. I am a consultant for a year and a half. But man the toxic work environment is something that gets under my skin. I am still learning how to deal with this properly but man some people are toxic as in putting themselves above you. I have an example where I was late 15 min and a colleague would talk bad about me because of it. Some days later, he was running late 45 min himself, I decided not to talk bad of him, he even thought I would use the opportunity to bash him and he apologized in a chat. I told him that I dont like putting people down for stuff like that and he shouldnt either. I see so many stuff like this being taken advantage of. Its like you always have to be onguard. Like on a project, I was doing the hard stuff while he was doing the easier stuff. You can get more done doing easy stuff and less when you do hard stuff. He would use that as a metric to say that he is good and that I am worse, he would do so behind my back and also since management and project managers are not technical they did slightly believe him. He was also playing politics behind my back to get a promotion over me, in the end we both had a raise. However I decided to quit anyway half a year later and go to another company because of me having so many responsibilities while being in a junior position. I applied for a mid position and got it because I could convince them of my time at that difficult project and being able to take responsibilities. And sure it was a formula for burnout. Hope you will not encounter this, I mean promotion yes but not the toxicity :)
You are lying
I'm here because of youtube recommendation, and so glad cause I didn't find any worst case about working at consulting company on google. I love your advice, please keep doing it!
So glad I work for a small consulting firm, rather than big 4. Totally different culture at smaller firms... we support each other, not compete against each other.
Very true ! As anything else, everyone is built to do certain things. Choosing the industry and job that is right for you is key. In Consulting , you sometimes get carried away with the trend ignoring your inner voice. So make sure you listen to inner voice and choose what is right for you. You will have a better life.
This is true worked for PwC, please add Accenture also in the list
Your video is a concise, sweet and creative version of "House of Lies: How Management Consultant Steal Your Watch and Then Tell You the Time."
Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
When you share the story about getting anxiety from a notification bell and having to Hotspot in the car to work on a deck asap... oh my God I really relate also! Where are you working now
haha yea that trauma lives on... I'm at a tech company as a software engineer now!
Thanks for sharing an honest video on consulting that was engaging and straight to the point!
Thank you Moki ☺️ Means a lot to me!
@Moki Coffee
What kind of words would U use to say no and be polite at the same time ?
This is very correct. I’m leaving a big 4 and I would also add that.. they are cheap. People think if you join you’ll be making stacks. No, you’ll be the worker ant and that is where you’ll stay. You can get multiple high end certs, experience and accolades, but expect marginal raises by people who don’t know what you do on a day to day. You are only an asset if you’re quiet and CHEAP.
You're making one big big mistake! Once you get those high end certificates, experience, accolades, that's the KEY moment for you to RUN!!!! Due to the fact you have so much well versed experience accumulated from different business and branches, you have a versatility other candidates don't have.
@@ABC-ABC1234 leaving a big 4 with my certs was the best thing I could have done, left making 76k to over 100k.
"I had to pull up my laptop, in the middle of a crowded street car to fix something on this deck"
lol
been there done that
THIS ACTUALLY CONVINCED ME THIS IS FOR ME
Omg i love it 😂
As a consultant,
I agree with everything you said especially #3 xD
And for the sake of viewers: I will add two important points to it:
6- The actual services you provide is not real consultancy:
: The international big companies do research based on different competitors and show their client what other companies are doing since they have the exposure, but the employees we have aren't really technical nor experienced, they literally enter each sector and they're not specialized people to give actual helpful consultancy.
7-A lot of dirty work/ unnecessary work
: Formatting, plotting data, cleaning slides, etc. ( The presentation is more important than the content)
And many international companies will ask you to fill on a daily basis your hours in details, forecasting projects, client details, opening projects, reserving rooms, bringing new clients, new subcontractors ( A lot of admin work goes under the consultant responsibility)
I just got about five and a half minutes into your video and noped out of this career path. Thank for giving me your inside perspective. You have just saved me a whole lot of time, and even protected me from the misery, should I have gotten that type of job.
Oof, graduating this May and going into Big 4 consulting... some of these definitely apply to me, so wish me luck!
good luck!!
One couldn't have a said it better. I can vouch for every single thing she has said. The gist of it would be 'competition' which is fundamentally violence and is not easy to identify if you don't observe life closely. We all know what violence is, we do it and regret it later. I was lucky to work with leaders who were compassionate and supportive, but that's very unlikely in big4.
The world needs more people like you - honest and speaking up your mind. Thank you!
im on the verge of accepting a consultant role with the big 4 and this was really helpful! thanks
What’s it been like?
I think it also depends on the firm you work at and the type of consulting you do. Deloitte for example, is known to be pretty competitive & backstabbing, and offers no wlb which is why I rejected my offer from there. KPMG and Slalom on the other hand surprisingly has good WLB on average and the Big 4 I'm at is really friendly. I don't think I've ever felt the need to compete with anyone else. It's all dependent on your team at the end of the day and if you're lucky to be in a supportive practice.
(E) just saw that you did work at Deloitte. Yep, that explains a lot. That place is toxic af...
My friend worked at Deloitte and she said the people there are toxic so I'm not surprised to read your comment
I have read on some business site comparing these companies n yeah, saw some comments about Deloitte n the people and someone even saying the way the even practice with others in the big 4 when they are both working for a client, like they don’t share info when they should, are deliberate, and mistrusting it sounded, when people have to work together for the client and it would work more smoothly. I don’t think it was EY, I might have to ask. KPMG sounds awesome just on the whole wlb! Like Kim said, she’d receive emails to get something done asap like it was an emergency only to find out it wasn’t and that just puts unnecessary stress on people, as well as having people work the weekend bcuz of the client OR because the other group took longer doing their part.
This kind of work culture does not only exist consulting. It exists essentially in all corporate jobs involving a top down organisation.
Where the money is where the assholes are
💯
That sounds horrible! I also hate the fact how these companies try to sell the idea of how great it is to work as a consultant...thank you for shedding light on this issue!
Interesting video. You definitely have managed to successfully discourage many of us from doing consulting. Personally, I love writing and I'm very good writer and I have written a book. However, writing is a very slow and refined process. I don't think I could function in that kind of environment. I think the work would actually make me hate writing.
I don't think these things should exactly scare you off. I'm not a consultant, but I came onto a rotational leadership program where the expectation is pretty damn high and everything is fast paced. I think these environment helps provide tons of experience in a short amount of time and really mold you and your career. A good advice I got from one of the leaders in my company is to go and do the hard work no one wants. You'll learn and grow so much more than doing a job You're comfortable with. If you find out later on it's not for you, at least you can transition with these major experiences on your belt
I'm currently working in a tech consultancy; I'm pretty new but my experience has been so different so far. I'm blessed to be in a good company that actively prioritises my wellbeing and work-life balance.
One of the Big 4 company?
Tech consulting might be different. I work at big4 as a tech junior consultant and I haven't experience nothing she mentioned. I guess management consulting attracts these competitive hotshots playing stupid politics.
Advantage of tech consulting is that you have an ability to “make something happen” that is more concrete. It’s easier to prove that software you’ve developed works and meets the client’s specifications than to prove that a business plan or strategy you’ve put together will do the same. There is still some politics, because you have to manage the disconnect between what the client wants and what is actually possible, but it’s not like management consulting where more often than not you are really being hired by an executive to carry out their political schemes against their rivals.
I 100% agree, especially working for some of the “big” consulting firm. Here the work politics are toxic and burn-out inducing. I also worked for smaller software companies as a consulting expert. Here the politics are way less and it’s easier to differentiate yourself in bringing value because of specialist/niche knowledge. If you value work-life balance and hate politics. Stay away from the “glamorous” big 4.
After being into consulting for over 7 years, I can say is it's really challenging job both mentally and physically. By end of week you will be too exhausted to even get out of bed. Forget about weekend fun n all🤣🤣
It's doable till the time one is single. After having a family really tough and one has to ultimately compromise on growth.
It's like constantly on a fight between and personal and professional aspirations.
I'm a freelancer and I usually go direct to client but once I went through a consultancy firm and it was one of the worst mistakes of my life lol. Essentially they wanted someone to be a punching bag for the client while they kept many other consultants doing very little in the clients organisation. I figured this out pretty quickly and started standing up frr myself and they fired me after 2 months. It was well payed but was toxic for sure . It worked out fine for me as I picked up work immediately and I just keep the gig off my CV. You have to be a total politician to prosper in these environments but there is a lot of money to be made if you can do it.
I used to think consulting is the ideal job after graduating - but I think the big 4 is overrated imo. Maybe if you join the Big 3 it's a different story. But If you join either as a fresh/junior you don't get much exposure unless you go out your way to build some connections that can help you climb faster. Especially in asian markets, top management always has political agendas. And projects take forever, sometimes you get stuck in a project. If you'd like to still learn and have a parallel exposure in management/consulting, my advise is try doing B2B sales in a large company. The pace is faster, shorter client lifecycle (close a deal, move to the next), faster time-to-exposure to various industries and their challenges, and you can make a ton of money at the same time meeting new people.
The best part is...In Sales your numbers will protect you wherever you go. So your merits is directly translated to your reputation - which means it's a fair game, no biasness. You can have the whole team hating you, but if you bring in the revenue, you're untouchable. And the relationships you build, revenue you created, track record you established will follow you everywhere, including your next company
It took 1st 2 minutes for me to hit the subscribe button. You seemed like a person who get to the main points straightforward.
I can actually get what you went through, I co-founder a startup and what your describing is VERY similar to what I went through 😭
I wish I had said 'no' more often
I have had a very similar experience: 1) extreme micromanagement 2) underpaid and feeling very undervalued in general 3) people meddling in my work duties, competing for projects, career ladder, etc. 4) simply working good enough is not enough, trying to squeeze everything out of me 5) constant bombardment of messages made my nervous system dysregulated, started to have insomnia
I just finished watching the entire 9 seasons of suits and that drama series really seems to portray whatever you are saying now ....granted law firms are also really considered consulting firm in the legal aspect of things ....
Most office jobs are like that. Especially, politics, you can never avoid politics especially as you go higher up the ladder. It's a skill that anyone should hone early on in your career.
@8:20 - Bingo! I work for a pretty famous consulting firm and was told the same exact words last week :D. Well, dropping my papers soon and moving to a product based company!
I just got accepted at one of the big 4 consulting firm. I am currently watching your video while I am writing this comment and I think I can relate to some of the points in the video such as working with others or competitive environment since I have heard it before from others too. However, when it comes to politics, I'm not the type of person that like to bring other people down just to shine brighter but I have heard about office politic too. I am still new at my current company but I am hoping that I can do well.
I am not saying that I am going to work forever at this company because I don't know what is going to happen in the future but I just really hope that I am going to do well.
This video is very informative! ^^
Love this!
So how is it going now dude
How’s it going? I got accepted too and it’s been my second day and i’m absolutely LOVING it
@@apricusenchant2825 It's going quite well
@@BuzziMuzzi congrats and enjoy it!
Sales Consultanting is for someone who is into improving one's self. It's for people who want to work on their communication skills. It also matters what company and products you are selling. A lot of factors matter. But more importantly are you on your purpose? If not burn out will get you.
I think this is an interesting video. I have worked all my life in a Big4 firm and I agree that 1) teamwork is essential 2) you need to be able to adapt to change quickly and be competitive 3) you need to love what you do, because you´ll be doing a lot of it 4) you need to be able to work within a hierarchical structure and if your boss tells you to do something, obviously within the ethical guidelines, you have to do it 5) you need to know how to think coherently and communicate verbally and in writing. If you think about it, all of these requirements (except maybe 5) are necessary in this hypercompetitive world we live in. So if you go to work at Apple, Tesla, Google, Coca-Cola, Citi, Pfizer, or any other big company you will encounter teamwork, competition, a lot of work, a boss, an you will need communication skills. To go even further, lets say you want to really do well in World of Warcraft (WoW) (the massively multiplayer online role-playing game), and I mean make money you will need 1) teamwork 2) be immensely competitive 3) love what you do and put in 12+hours 4) you simply cannot do as you please, you need to follow the plan which is like taking orders and 5) being a skillful communicator is definitely a plus. So, bottom line, if you don´t like working in teams, are not competitive, want to work 8 hours a day, can´t take orders and can´t communicate all I have for you is GOOD LUCK. By the way, WLB is all about priorities. My priorities are my family and my work, that´s it. That is my balance and I love it.
what about your health as a top priority, before family and work? 🙂
Sounds awful. I’ll pass
@@iamsmilingelleyou nailed it
Unfortunately, being competitive and being a team player are contradicting terms, I currently still am working as a consultant in one of the big four companies. People say things just to be politically correct, but if you don't perform as they expect, e.g. working after hours and weekends, you immediately get judged.
Also unfortunately, when people get promoted based on merits, it is not indicative of whether they will be a good manager or not, people and projects are mismanaged all the time, and the nature of being in a big corporate company exacerbates the issue.
Leaders are not leaders and are very manipulative, they are essentially sales persons, they say things just to get what they want, they always have a hidden agenda. I've met bad managers who won't even take responsibility for their own shortcomings and put the blame on their team, it's extremely bad.
This is about business consulting, not IT consulting.
I used to work for two of the Big4 companies, so I agree with every point you mentioned
I'm a senior software engineer consultant with Slalom and I have to say all these things are so foreign to me. It's been 4 years ans still goinf strong. One of our core values is authenticity and senior leadership is serious about this. You don't have to be a social butterfly to do your job. You must be able to be your professional self. And it's not like there's nothing ugly about consulting but at least our leadership is transparent about it.
does it have a better work life balance compared to finance industry?
I never had a chance to go into management consulting. Every time I've ever applied for a job worth having I've never even gotten an interview.
Me too
Why not start at a small consultancy?
@@bimjean1053 - Because I have no training in anything worth consulting on.
@@anarki777 No one does before starting. Thats why you should look for small consulting companies. They are more likely to hire you and you will learn a lot more in contrast to working at a big consulting firm right from the beginning. Also maybe management consulting isn't the best way to start a career because you will have no practical knowledge about management. If you want to go for that you start to work in a department of some company as an inhouse consultant or a normal employee where you will learn how to manage internal processes and how to improve them. Consultancies need people that understand business and you will gain that knowledge better by working with and on internal processes.
@@bimjean1053 - I'm already 32, bro. I'm not starting from the bottom now, to maybe have a management consultancy job when I'm in my 40's or something. The truth is, you need to get a good job soon after leaving university while you're still in your early 20's. This sets off the whole trajectory of your career.
Everything Mika shared is 100% so true! Thanks for sharing Mika!