Not a like-for-like comparison. Both versions of the Hartman (using either BBD chip, SAD1024 or MN3007) are based on the non-deluxe 9V Mistress. The 9V version has a noticeably different EQ from the non-deluxe 18V (actually 12V) version. The main difference is in two capacitor values in the bit of the circuit that mixes the clean and delayed signals. Larger values were used in the 9V version (and Hartman) so that version lets through more of the lower frequencies and makes it less clear and trebley than the 18V version. The behaviour of the sweep at high rates is also very different on the 9v version.
Yes indeed, I just tweaked the clock bias trimpot in my Hartman a little clockwise and it now sounds exactly like the green machine. I was always slightly disappointed with my Hartman after having a green mistress to play with for a week but this is now solved. Good Times! I believe this tweak speeds up the sweep a little and Theo Hartman loves a slow (glacial) sweep so that's why he sets them up that way.
I agree with that. I wonder whether the bass response could be compensated tweaking the trim pots inside the Hartman. Other than the oscilating bass on the Electric Mistress, the Hartman does sound exactly like it.
Like the guy on That Pedal Show states....the magic of the EM is in the top end. Nothing like it. EM green letter battery version from late 70s is greatest flanger ever bar none.
Thanks Violet, glad you like the video. I love the Hartman because of the sheer reliability of it. Analog is superior as far as sound goes but many new digital modeling devices are fantastic. I have a Line6 MM4 and Strymon El Capistan on my pedal board. G
The reason they Sound so Different, is because; the EHX is cutting-out some of the Bass ( so in essence ) - you are getting all the top-end shimmer from the Mistress. The Hartman is Full Frequency, and not shelving-off the Bass end. I am not saying One is Better then the other. ( as with everything in life ), it is all: Personal Preference. I am currently using the Mooer and I absolutely Love It. No Volume Drop. No Bass Drop. Studio Quiet.
Michael Caz agree with Michael here. I've got 5 original Mistress units, 3 versions of the Deluxe Mistress and the original Hartman. I tried a friends E Lady against these and was super impressed. Sure there are subtle differences but I'd have zero problems gigging the E Lady and actually do. It's really a no-brainer for the price. I can't believe there are no true clones on the original Elec Mistress on the market currently. Since Hartman closed shop no one is doing clones.
@@allthingsclassicrock I love Thorpy stuff. I have the Fallout Cloud on my pedalboard. I'm super-happy with my E-Lady, as I do alot of Police and Pink Floyd. I wish someone would actually Re-Make the Hartman. Nice to have so-many choices & options. Stay Safe everyone.
Michael Caz I was considering buying the Thorpy, it is very tempting but I don’t know if I’m ready to part with that much money. Thanks, stay safe as well.
@@allthingsclassicrock Perhaps more versatile vs. most any Flanger out there? Adrian makes great stuff. Dan from TPS loves it and he is a huge Mistress-fan?
A good comparison thanks Graeme. Like you I owned the DEM first. Loved it. Tried the Hartman, which was louder than unity gain as opposed to a volume drop. I also got noises I couldn't eliminate despite having a PP+2. Got an EM as advised by Pete Cornish who said it can't be touched. For mine it's best by far. Using a Gigrig G2 eliminates the volume drop. For me they aren't close and the compression of a youtube clip only tells part of that story. Great job mate. Love your informative clips. Cheers. Simon in Melbourne. I do have an EM clip if you want to check it out. :-)
strings2wood The Hartman has an internal bypass/level adjust trimpot inside that can be used to either raise or drop volume as you like. There are a few threads in guitar forums about it.
For those who wonder, i've compared my green and vintage deluxe (both reconstructed and re-aligned to factory specs) to this new mooer eleclady flanger. The mooer sounds more organic but tends to go into the bf-2 regeneration/color territory. However for the price is an excellent pedalboard replacement for live gigs. Also you can get the Gilmour flanging tones from the wall live quite easily. You could do a proper graemey review of the Mooer Eleclady. The Eleclady falls in between the deluxe reissue and the deluxe vintage version .
Good point on the Mooer ElecLady. I do own one and I have to admit, it hasnt left my board since I bought it. It really sounds good. Has the typical volume drop but Ive learned to live with it. It also plays very well with other FX. Wampler Velvet Fuzz > Mooer ElecLady > Modtone Aqua Chous II > TC Flashback Delay makes, for me, the perfect solo tone Ive ever dialed up. And Ive exhaustably tweaked tons of FX looking for that perfect solo tone. Still, Id surely buy the Hartman if there werent a 1000 other FX on my list =) Love your vids G.
Thanks for the update! I have an early Hartman, serial #476 or something, with the Reticons, but unfortunately I have never had the pleasure to play with an original Electric Mistress. Now back to playing Police tunes! Cheers!
Ya...The Line 6 MM4 sounds great and you managed to mod it to eliminate the volume drop...Can you reveal your secret to me? I am a modulations freak and I had to take the MM4 and replace it with a bunch of pedals which right now include 2 choruses (Boss CE-5 & E-H Neo-Clone), a Hartman flanger, Phase 90 phaser, and Boss TR-2 tremolo. But that rotary sound on the MM4 is one of my favorites -- I used that in my cover of Soundgarden, "Black Hole Sun" despite the volume problem. Thanks again!!!
the ol eh is sounding better from this end, though I have a soft spot for EH... I have an old mains deluxe mistress, do you know how to tell how old it is?
YES!!! Thanks for doing this! Even though I have already purchased a Hartman because it does not colonize an entire pedalboard the way the Deluxe Electric Mistress does. I am very pleased by the sound of the Hartman, but I'll bet I would have been happy with the Electric Mistress. In my opinion, the Stereo Electric Mistress (a digital flanger/chorus) is a complete fail for making Police-like sounds. Although I am not bent on analog only, in the case of flangers & phasers analog seems better.
Hi Graeme, From here it sounds like the EH has way more bottom end than the Hartman. The original production run of the Hartmans included the Reticon SAD1024 chip. Nowadays they use Panasonic BBD chips from the same era. The Reticons were 16 pin devices, the Panasonic 8 pin Devices. Yours has the Panasonic (top left of board - socketed). Cheers. D
i'm shopping for a flanger but can't find a hartman in my area. will probably go for a cheaper alternative, the mooer elec lady. sounds about the same i suppose.
Sid Fernandez There are rumors that Hartman Effects went out of business. Theo Hartman is working for an IT company in California for at least one year now.
Hartman is expensive...I got mine for like $250...But is a great sounding flanger and it does not take up a lot of space compared to other analog flangers...There is a Deluxe Electric Mistress that will give you great sounds too for $150, but it will eat up pedalboard real estate...If you can afford the space the Deluxe Electric Mistress is good...Do NOT get a Stereo Electric Mistress though (that is a digital chorus/flange that sounds different)...
I don't know why, but he has them set differently and consistently has the color on the Hartman turned up more. The more boxy tone of the Hartman is definitely due to the color control being turned up, which has the effect of limiting the frequency range and making it sound more boxy.
Would love to see a demo of how you replaced the dc jack
Not a like-for-like comparison. Both versions of the Hartman (using either BBD chip, SAD1024 or MN3007) are based on the non-deluxe 9V Mistress. The 9V version has a noticeably different EQ from the non-deluxe 18V (actually 12V) version. The main difference is in two capacitor values in the bit of the circuit that mixes the clean and delayed signals. Larger values were used in the 9V version (and Hartman) so that version lets through more of the lower frequencies and makes it less clear and trebley than the 18V version. The behaviour of the sweep at high rates is also very different on the 9v version.
Yes indeed, I just tweaked the clock bias trimpot in my Hartman a little clockwise and it now sounds exactly like the green machine. I was always slightly disappointed with my Hartman after having a green mistress to play with for a week but this is now solved. Good Times! I believe this tweak speeds up the sweep a little and Theo Hartman loves a slow (glacial) sweep so that's why he sets them up that way.
I agree with that. I wonder whether the bass response could be compensated tweaking the trim pots inside the Hartman. Other than the oscilating bass on the Electric Mistress, the Hartman does sound exactly like it.
Like the guy on That Pedal Show states....the magic of the EM is in the top end. Nothing like it. EM green letter battery version from late 70s is greatest flanger ever bar none.
9 or 18 volt version?
@@sexyguitarboy69 Hint... "2 battery version."
18v 😑
Intro song? Please
Anyone know the serial number cut off point when chip changes to panasonic?
Thanks Violet, glad you like the video. I love the Hartman because of the sheer reliability of it. Analog is superior as far as sound goes but many new digital modeling devices are fantastic. I have a Line6 MM4 and Strymon El Capistan on my pedal board. G
The reason they Sound so Different, is because; the EHX is cutting-out some of the Bass ( so in essence ) - you are getting all the top-end shimmer from the Mistress. The Hartman is Full Frequency, and not shelving-off the Bass end. I am not saying One is Better then the other. ( as with everything in life ), it is all: Personal Preference. I am currently using the Mooer and I absolutely Love It. No Volume Drop. No Bass Drop. Studio Quiet.
Michael Caz agree with Michael here. I've got 5 original Mistress units, 3 versions of the Deluxe Mistress and the original Hartman. I tried a friends E Lady against these and was super impressed. Sure there are subtle differences but I'd have zero problems gigging the E Lady and actually do. It's really a no-brainer for the price. I can't believe there are no true clones on the original Elec Mistress on the market currently. Since Hartman closed shop no one is doing clones.
What do you guys think of the new ThorpyFX flanger? I love my elec-lady I get pretty damn close to some of the Robin Trower Caravan to midnight tones.
@@allthingsclassicrock I love Thorpy stuff. I have the Fallout Cloud on my pedalboard. I'm super-happy with my E-Lady, as I do alot of Police and Pink Floyd. I wish someone would actually Re-Make the Hartman. Nice to have so-many choices & options. Stay Safe everyone.
Michael Caz I was considering buying the Thorpy, it is very tempting but I don’t know if I’m ready to part with that much money. Thanks, stay safe as well.
@@allthingsclassicrock Perhaps more versatile vs. most any Flanger out there? Adrian makes great stuff. Dan from TPS loves it and he is a huge Mistress-fan?
A good comparison thanks Graeme. Like you I owned the DEM first. Loved it. Tried the Hartman, which was louder than unity gain as opposed to a volume drop. I also got noises I couldn't eliminate despite having a PP+2. Got an EM as advised by Pete Cornish who said it can't be touched. For mine it's best by far. Using a Gigrig G2 eliminates the volume drop. For me they aren't close and the compression of a youtube clip only tells part of that story. Great job mate. Love your informative clips. Cheers. Simon in Melbourne. I do have an EM clip if you want to check it out. :-)
strings2wood The Hartman has an internal bypass/level adjust trimpot inside that can be used to either raise or drop volume as you like. There are a few threads in guitar forums about it.
What was that intro song at the start of the video
For those who wonder, i've compared my green and vintage deluxe (both reconstructed and re-aligned to factory specs) to this new mooer eleclady flanger. The mooer sounds more organic but tends to go into the bf-2 regeneration/color territory. However for the price is an excellent pedalboard replacement for live gigs. Also you can get the Gilmour flanging tones from the wall live quite easily. You could do a proper graemey review of the Mooer Eleclady. The Eleclady falls in between the deluxe reissue and the deluxe vintage version .
From your last sentence, I would deduce the Eleclady sounds "better" than the deluxe reissue since it sounds closer to the vintage one.
Alvaro Salinas u
The effect itself sounds pretty much the same, but there's a huge difference in tone between the two.
This is exactly what I thought both good but I prefer the EH but for gigging it's close enough.
Good point on the Mooer ElecLady. I do own one and I have to admit, it hasnt left my board since I bought it. It really sounds good. Has the typical volume drop but Ive learned to live with it. It also plays very well with other FX. Wampler Velvet Fuzz > Mooer ElecLady > Modtone Aqua Chous II > TC Flashback Delay makes, for me, the perfect solo tone Ive ever dialed up. And Ive exhaustably tweaked tons of FX looking for that perfect solo tone. Still, Id surely buy the Hartman if there werent a 1000 other FX on my list =) Love your vids G.
Thanks for the update! I have an early Hartman, serial #476 or something, with the Reticons, but unfortunately I have never had the pleasure to play with an original Electric Mistress. Now back to playing Police tunes! Cheers!
great video. do you know which version Keith Levene used? I'm thinking V2...
This is a later version of the Hartman that uses a Panasonic chip, different from the EM. See other comments for more information.
Ya...The Line 6 MM4 sounds great and you managed to mod it to eliminate the volume drop...Can you reveal your secret to me? I am a modulations freak and I had to take the MM4 and replace it with a bunch of pedals which right now include 2 choruses (Boss CE-5 & E-H Neo-Clone), a Hartman flanger, Phase 90 phaser, and Boss TR-2 tremolo. But that rotary sound on the MM4 is one of my favorites -- I used that in my cover of Soundgarden, "Black Hole Sun" despite the volume problem. Thanks again!!!
the ol eh is sounding better from this end, though I have a soft spot for EH... I have an old mains deluxe mistress, do you know how to tell how old it is?
YES!!! Thanks for doing this! Even though I have already purchased a Hartman because it does not colonize an entire pedalboard the way the Deluxe Electric Mistress does. I am very pleased by the sound of the Hartman, but I'll bet I would have been happy with the Electric Mistress. In my opinion, the Stereo Electric Mistress (a digital flanger/chorus) is a complete fail for making Police-like sounds. Although I am not bent on analog only, in the case of flangers & phasers analog seems better.
Hi Graeme, From here it sounds like the EH has way more bottom end than the Hartman. The original production run of the Hartmans included the Reticon SAD1024 chip. Nowadays they use Panasonic BBD chips from the same era. The Reticons were 16 pin devices, the Panasonic 8 pin Devices. Yours has the Panasonic (top left of board - socketed). Cheers. D
This is correct and important information on the Hartman and very relevant to the comparison!
Thank you! Really actual shootout for me
Very close, how much for the Hartman? Great demo.
Hartman is better, I'll take the EHX Electric Mistress off your hands now you don't need it
Hahaha! ;))
I might be wrong but I have never ever seen a Hartman Flanger with an actual Reticon SAD2014A's.
Yes, the early ones did; the later version used a Panasonic chip and different circuit. The one in the video is the later version!
SAD1024, that is.
Are they difficult to build?
i'm shopping for a flanger but can't find a hartman in my area. will probably go for a cheaper alternative, the mooer elec lady. sounds about the same i suppose.
Sid Fernandez There are rumors that Hartman Effects went out of business. Theo Hartman is working for an IT company in California for at least one year now.
Bummer! I wish good luck to Theo on all his new endeavors!
Hi, wich flanger would you prefer? A/Da Fanger, Mistress or Hartman?
muito bom os dois flanger, simples e com um som fora de série
A TENNER!!! The vintage green goes for 500-700 in Australia if you can find one
Do you build any to sell??
Hi, what is the pedal you are using to switch between the two? thanks
Bright Onion try bypass switcher
Did you build the 5 channel selector switch??
Bright Onion Pedals
To find the MM4 mod at Harmony Central just Google "mm4 volume drop fix" and get ready to do some fiddley work with your soldering iron! G
Have you tried the Hartman on 12volts?
It was designed for 12v but works with 9v.
Great vid. Has anyone tried the Ibanez big box FL-303? Blew my mind!
My FL9 is awesome
Hartman is expensive...I got mine for like $250...But is a great sounding flanger and it does not take up a lot of space compared to other analog flangers...There is a Deluxe Electric Mistress that will give you great sounds too for $150, but it will eat up pedalboard real estate...If you can afford the space the Deluxe Electric Mistress is good...Do NOT get a Stereo Electric Mistress though (that is a digital chorus/flange that sounds different)...
Yep, I did. Actually there is a sixth foot switch just out of view. G
I had the EH for years. Too many problems. Unreliable. I love the Hartman. Sounds the same.
Thanks!!!!
i really think the hartman sounds more pleasant
Close but no cigar!!!!! I hear slight varations between the two!!!
EH more natural open. Hartman very boxy..... I have a hartman, had no idea it was thart different from the original.
I don't know why, but he has them set differently and consistently has the color on the Hartman turned up more. The more boxy tone of the Hartman is definitely due to the color control being turned up, which has the effect of limiting the frequency range and making it sound more boxy.
Yea, its not the settings. They just have different tones.
Sorry, I don't. G
w ww.metzgerralf.de/elekt/stomp/mistress/index.shtml