True story: In June 1992 when I was 20 years old I started studying with JW and attending KHall meetings. Less than a month later my non-JW Mom died at 58. By late summer certain co-workers of mine found out I had been studying and one of them was a college student at Northeastern Illinois Chicago. He brought me James Penton's book "Apocalypse Delayed". I brought it home, skimmed it over, slightly intrigued, yet I was scared to go further and had started to read about "apostate" writings during my study at some point. So I brought the book to my JW "bible study conductor", he skimmed it not really reading any of it, shoved it back across the table to me and looked me dead in the eye stating "David, I won't read this because this book is designed to destroy my faith". I thought about it after going home and returned Penton's book back to my co-worker who was quite upset and angry at me for getting involved with Jehovah's Witnesses. He was a sort of pure anarchist. He never spoke to me again. I honestly thought that was "Jehovah directing matters" and unfortunately I wound up continuing my study with JW and got baptized in 1994 pre-internet. If only I had read Jim Penton's book instead of skimming and dismissing it I could have avoided the JW hijacking but I was already too indoctrinated. My sad story of losing the young prime of my adulthood to watchtower for 25+ years before finally awakening in 2017. And it takes a long time for the high control cultic cobwebs to be cleaned off.
I agree with you. Don't lose heart. I'm 62 and spent my life from about 7 years old being indoctrinated into the cult. I'm free of it for only about 5 months now. But I can honestly say that everything that I did in my past decades has been all for Jehovah God, regardless of being in a cult. I've gone through the mourning period and now can look back and see good things and it's been a real wake up call. All the red flags or problems I've had through the years in many different congregations that I've been in, all make sense once I left. I'm free. You're free.
I Dont believe Nothing was/is wasted in our learning process (experiences in life) to conform to the intended image of God in Sonship (likeness in charachter and qualities) . The one quality seen and shaped by God in us ( in whatever denomination) is our motivation through Christ's reconcillation process working in us as adopted sons. Ephesians 1 colossians 1 Romans 8 Hebrew 2 ....2 Corinthians 5 Shalom in Christ Im out also ..done my boot camp ! Still trucking along...
David Wicklin Very good explanation to high control cobwebs in a cult,it’s weird sometimes to me that it takes a while to just forget the lies,but it is a severe brainwashing technic that Watchtower uses and did me under for ten of my senior years,feel so dumb ,angry and gullible .
@@sasquatchmeridian3094 The REAL, ACTUAL facts of reality about this the watchtower organization that calls itself "the truth", which we audaciously and arrogantly repeated to each other in the Borg and those coming "in" to the Borg. Where can I start about what I awokened to? How about the watchtower child sexual abuse cover-ups and their own in-house database protecting and hiding JW pedophiles on their internal list they refuse to turn over to police authorities or to court subpoenas unredacted, let alone specifically notifying other parents and congregants of the dangers these individuals present knowing the high recidivism rate child molestors have. You see, in my 25 years as a devout Jehovah's Witness I actually fervently believed we truly ascribed to the pinnacle of the highest moral standards above and beyond anyone else out there. I thought discipline was administered "properly" for many years and that the elders themselves were fully compliant with laws and statutes and were proactive in helping the victims. Instead what I researched was that the victims of pedophilia/child abuse were often blamed such as the cases of Erica Garza, Candace Conti, Holly Brewer, Stephanie Fessler just to name a few cases to begin with as the list is exhaustively huge for an organization comprised of 8 million+ to have thousands of perverts on a database who have engaged in criminal Sodom & Gomorrah-type behavior despite having supposed in-depth systematic Bible study encompassing morality and virtues, let alone the abhorrence scripture itself expresses toward such perverted criminal acts. I had NO IDEA, NO CLUE that there was such a problem. I thought these were anomalies, an aberration, an isolated incident like with the Bethelite elder Jesus Manuel Cano getting busted at O'Hare airport. (Google his name and you'll see the news stories). What else? How about the flip-flops on the blood doctrine costing JW lives. The perpetual shunning that goes on for years. Beth Sarim & Beth Shan as RutherFraud lived like a pimped out prosperity preacher in his posh, palatial palace much of his later years between 1929-1942 along with having two 16-cylinder Cadillacs at his disposal during the Great Depression. I wasn't aware of that until recently. Nor was I aware of how many times the Borg predicted, prophesied or expected Armageddon falsely, hijacking members lives by telling us don't go to college or don't seek out higher advanced education, that it's all "from Satan". That's the tip of the Iceberg with those major issues of integrity and seriousness.
Even though I was disfellowship years ago, I always continued to pray for guidance to find the truth. You and your information are uplifting and strong in my heart. Thank you...
@@hopalonglost Jason Zelda was huge for me. After that I read one of the "Red Letter" bibles that put all Jesus words in Red. It all makes sense now, why the worshipers of Jehovah thought he was a demon possessed blasphemer... Jesus clearly pointed out that they were worshiping the devil who requires human sacrifice and accepts blood sacrifice. Jehovah is Satan the devil a liar and a murder, god of this world. John 8: 1-58 & Hosea 6:6. Jesus broke Jehovah's law refusing to stone the adulterous, broke the sabbath and denounced Jehovah's earthly organization and its leaders.
What a wonderful brother. I was very young when I had my first judicial committee meeting. It’s put so much fear in me. I now have problems that hold me back in life.
Dear Eric, Thank you , Thank you so much . This interview was amazing to the core . This is exactly what I feel wasting my time for the last 17 years and putting my family thru this. The door to door ministry is a colossal waste of time and sadly so many young families struggle to spend quality family time. I will be writing to Jim . I will be supporting your works Eric. I would not want young families like mine was back then to go through what I went and am going through now.
I have had many talks with District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, elders, etc. about my last marriage to a 'brother.' He did not provide for me, punched me in the face, admitted to reviling me for 22 years, he abused the kids mentally and physically, wouldn't provide for us and on and on. I told those brothers that this organization is a boys' club. I have never had justice for me nor the kids with the ex-husband. The ex only got a slap on the hand, private reproof. I couldn't believe it. Yet, I'm the one who had to stay faithful to Jehovah and not date or remarry. Forget that! I'm free of Watchtower now and thankful for it. And you're both right about feeling a freedom that you never had whilst in the organization. It feels good to be one to one with the true God, and to feel dedicated to him alone and not to the Satanic Watchtower organization.
I think its about dossiers.. Almighty God is collating one with a list of names. Those whose names are listed Are there because of their integrity , This dossier is being kept, as it were, for all whose consciences have been stirred Yet remain undeterred By the rocking of the nations By the teachings that have gone like the waves, hither and thither, Because they accept they're following the appointed leaders Like the Israelites did with Moses and Aaron his brother Oh , they also had a sister Who though prominent Her hand was made to wither By various tests of faith The people then were sifted You could tell by who was alive when the scourge was lifted. Why He himself sinned when his patience reached its limit When leading the great host There were many hardships but maybe there was no love or meekness left in him.. I used to think The Almighty was somewhat harsh in the severity with which He punished him .. In the same way, of humanity, all will face an accounting . That includes those who are spiritually governing . The man of lawlessness Even if he is right there, in the boardroom A participant in Making decisions and policies Like judas, who was corrupt and a traitor from within A greedy man with his selfish agenda... All of this Jah , factors in . Nothing is missing. By tests and trials Jah can tell Who is and who is not , GENUINE. That's a prejudicial statement Which for some might be upsetting Those who cant keep in step Because they like to dance to another rhythm. We can look at things physically or we can do so spiritually , Had we been back there, would we have accused Moses, of nepotism ? Well,my point is.. HE wasnt perfect, nor infallible, so DEFINITELY , NOT BEYOND CRITICISM. On top of that, did he not have a Midianite wife ? So how can we now expect to have 8 men , that are perfect and infallible then ? In revelation 11 : 5 & 6 besides, It tells us God made provision for them , He there tells us ,they're Licensed ..to strike earth with all manner of plagues. .... Yeah..you might say Caught up in the fray It's not these, Ok..so When they arrive, How can you be sure you will be ready for them ? For they are ordained to bring NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES . Will we be like Job Who forgave the errant men. After all, by whom was it said "The time will come , when those who deliver you up to be persecuted or killed , will imagine they've rendered a sacred service ", was it not Christ? And which are the ones who have the identical profile or the exact same sentiments ? Just as the psalmist said They're on the verge of violence Which you ll find at psalm 2 :3, Of Gods peoples ' enemies. Have no fear, For this also, must be In order to fulfill prophecy.
D Cee. I've had so called brothers do wicked things to me, and heard of others that experienced simlarly, I take comfort in ps 37 Speaking of the time when reward is being handed out of everlasting life In paradise , " you will look for them, and they will not be " They may fool us now, pretending to be something they're not at heart , but they dont fool the Almighty , That's a fact !
I'm so happy for you l experience the same abuse your children growing up in the organization. My friends later told me they knew what was going on but didn't know how to help they all sat around one and talked about it. I always love my Dad ❤️ he just didn't know how to deal with his pass effectively and being witness didn't help much either but look at God. He showed up and showed out 😂 made my life way better than what my friends could of did for me. When you learn of the Father Son and Holy Spirit the truth of Gods Word of salvation you are set free as Jesus said. We both are free.
We loved it. You are both so well-spoken and sharp. I do love Watch tower history. I'm surprised at how much I missed. I surely missed everything about Jim penton's experience in Canada until recently. But now I know you both and feel very privileged to call you my brothers and friends. Sheryl 😊
Amazing interview!! I lived through the 1975 prediction as well and can relate so well to everything discussed. You are my brothers. Thank you for the work you are doing.
I fully appreciate your choice to address the teachings and policies of the jw org. with humility and grace and that you have continued your service to Jesus Christ
I love these interviews, you can’t make these experiences up. I’m so happy he encouraged his children to pursue a good education. Thank you for producing such informative and important videos, they’re life-saving.
Thank you Mr Penton for taking time to do this interview. I grew up as a Witness, never baptized,kinda faded away,however never really doing any serious research to discover whether teachings were true or not. Upon delving further, finding the twisted verses, hidden information, incorrectly interpetated scriptures which have no biblical basis any longer, abuse, I can in good faith say that this organization does not have the truth. I implore anyone currently in it,or in the midst of getting into it, to get researching everything you can get your hands on. If this was the truth, it should be able to stand up to the research and scrutiny, after all the truth should be the truth. However the WT,does not want you researching, I believe they know that once you start looking and researching,you will find enough serious issues within the organization, that your eyes will be open to the fact that they are not the truth.
Because none of you listened to Jesus... He said you live where Satan dwells and to come out of the church and their beliefs and follow CHRIST through the narrow path inside the house of YOU where the Kingdom of God is CHRIST within the house of YOU, Jees he's us Yesh u are, .... GREAT seducing spirit posing as Jesus, the fake Jesus...all religions, None of you listened to Jesus, your name was recorded in the lambs book of Life since before this world was created, oh by the way you live where Satan dwells, this is not your home, ..it's a video game called Life... wake up sleepy Angels
Dear Eric thank you so much for the two recent videos I’ve just watched with your interview with Jim Penton. I’m so grateful for your own insight and the wonderful past knowledge that Jim has amassed over the years especially with regard to the early history and past presidents of the Watchtower. I left the organisation 20 years ago but am only now getting to know the truth about the truth so thanks once again and keep up the good work.
Hi Eric, I don't know if you will read this but I've been brought up in the truth for 57 years but this last year I only went to the memorial, n I felt like something is wrong, then in August this year I found a video on child abuse n then saw the Australian royal commission, n I felt so sick inside. I have felt like I have never fitted In the organisation, but since I've found out bout all these thing's, I've felt physically sick n actually had panic attacks over it. I feel so scared that my family who are still in the truth will find out that I'm not excepting it any more n they will shun me. I was brought up from birth. I cannot get out of my head that I'm going to be destroyed at armaggedon. I've watched your videos n you sound like the most honest person I know. The way you explain the scriptures makes so much sense to me, I really don't know where to turn anymore, the bible was always so hard for me to understand, but the way you explain the scriptures is unbelievable, I can actually grasp what your saying. I feel so scared inside because I feel my world has totally been destroyed, I still love jehovah and jesus christ but I don't know where to turn anymore. I'm under a psychiatrist and have explained everything to him about it, but the problem is, is that if the jws are not the "truth" then who is! Where do I turn to. I really love listening to your videos Eric, please keep them coming, thank you so much x
@@moondust7902 Ive Read Your Testimony An Felt Your Hurt it's Sad What Happened . I Also SeeThat You Have Love For God Yahweh &His Christ In Your Heart & What is Going On In This Religion .Ive Read Other People's Um Storie's. An Ouite Shocking At What Has Happened. I Don't Know What ICan Say To Ease The Pain Hurt Of You. So Here is What I Have To Say I see that you have faith and God in Christ and also I guess you're a little afraid. That your family will find out that you know the truth of what is happening. I Believe The Yahweh is using People To expose What Is Going On In This Religion An As More &More People Are Waking Up He God Will Take Action At The Appointed Time To See This Organization Pay For its Wrong Doing. Jesus Said Keep on Asking &Keep Knocking For Anwser's I Am Not An X jw Or. A Member Just An Person Who Happened To Come Across These Video's I Know Of Family &Friend's That Are J W. Hope That Some How This Has Helped In A. Way
@@mervjohnson2140 thank you so much for your support, this is the first time I have ever made a comment on any video. I was brought up to be absolutely terrified of apostates etc, but since I've been watching different videos, I've realised that they are just ordinary people who are just telling they're story. I've learnt more now since I started watching these videos back at the end of August this year than I have the entire 57 yrs I've been in the, 'truth' I just feel totally devastated that I've been so black and white all my life, n now I don't know what is the Real Truth! I am going to start reading the bible from scratch but not the NWT. When I listen to Eric explain the scriptures, it really makes sense to me, the problem is that I'm so indoctrinated and conditioned in the JW beliefs, that I can't seem to get any of it out of my head, I'm convinced I'm going to be destroyed when the end comes. I've prayed to jehovah to actually ask him if he can put me to sleep when the time comes because I still love him n jesus christ, I just can't do this anymore! Anyway I really appreciate you taking the time to write a comment to me, thank you, God bless x
@@moondust7902 I just Read Your Comment An Thanks . If I Can Say This One Thing Remember That. Yahweh &Christ Have Love For You. An It's. A Person's Heart That God &Christ Look At So Have Faith In Both An when The Time Come's For Christ To judge Mankind He Will Remember Thoese That Have Love For God & Christ & Thier Fellow Man .I Hope This Give's You Some Kind of assurance. An Like I Said. Keep Asking An Knocking For Answers An continue to study the Bible With a sincere heart. An God Bless Your Effort's In Your Search For Him Amen
Excellent, balanced discussion. My dad (who remained a nominal JW until his death in 2009) was mad as hell after reading the July 15, 1979 Watchtower. He said "... they're blaming the rank and file for 1975. That's bullsh*t". He never forgave The Society. When he had a stroke years later and lost his vision, he only wanted me to read the Bible to him. He said "The Society has become a corporate religion". Thanks again.
You are both my heros!! I've been out since 1986 and learned of Jim Penton shortly after and many of the other "Apostate Greats" of the time. Blessings!!!
Thank u brothers I love truth so much thanks for your share I watched Raymond Frez. Video. Some time back all you older gentlemen are so inspirational to me. You may have left watchtower but never left Jehovah and his begotten one and only son we are to help everyone that we can and you guys are doing a great job may jehovah bless u both keep up the good work
This is interesting! I’ve read several books including the report that journalist wrote about the way the witnesses hounded and harassed anyone who would support Mr. Penton. It was a very ugly story and went on for a long time. I’ve found it almost impossible to convince the JWs who still speak to me about the despicable way dissenting witnesses are treated. Several people have asked me why I left and then refused to believe what happened to me. I’ve come to regard this as a good example of what the mental health people call “hysterical blindness”. The fog of brainwash is so ingrained it also causes “fixed delusions”. This religion is one of the most evil, devious and intellect destroying cults ever invented. Many decades ago I tried to get the book “Crisis of Conscience” from the Vancouver public library. Every time I went there it was always signed out. The clerk told me the waiting list was so long she couldn’t believe it! I then suspected that every elder in town was signing the book out so congregants couldn’t get to read it. Later I found out this was true. Glad to be out, educated and free! I for one don’t regard JWs as wonderful but misguided people. My experiences with them were mostly unpleasant... slandering miserable women, philandering husbands, nasty couples living double lives.
im always happy to hear from you eric, thank you james, I am deeply shocked from what ive heard tonight, thank you both again for giving us a lot more strength to go forward
muted spark Hi, yes sadly that can be the case, but I will always have faith and I will never let anyone take that away from me. Only one would be myself...! I love God & his son Christ Jesus. ☺️
His book was what woke me up, that's how I found out about R Franz. I saw his book in the library, curiosity got the best of me. Thank you sir for your attention to detail in your book.
I only go to meetings to support my wife and friends but cannot focus on much of the talks or WT studies. Actually I find myself studying other topics while at the studies. I still love those brothers and not going to change that and will stick with it until I cannot. Keeping my mouth shut in the meantime and not interested in service obviously.
busymountain, so many of us have been in or currently in similar situations. I was serving as an elder for at least five years feeling like this. But at the time I could see no way out. Maybe you are too. Then one day it literally was all too much and things had to change. I resigned, walked out of the KH and have never been back. That was two years ago... and as our friends here have said, the freedom is truly wonderful. Yes, we have lost some family and almost all our friends.... even though we are not DFed or officially disassociated we are shunned by most. This is the price of real truth. True freedom awaits you when you are ready along with friends that have no conditions attached to their friendship.
Thank you Eric and Jim. I studied with a very fine elder but had some doctrinal disagreements that I expressed to both the US branch and the governing body. It became very apparent to me that the governing body has no interest in bible truth. When you send a dissenting letter to the governing body they just simply forward it to the local elders. The elders requested a meeting with me in which two elders insulted me. They had no interest in bible truth. They questioned my intelligence and warned me about the dangers of the internet. They terminated my bible study. Their attitude was get in line, sit down, shut up, or don't let the door hit you in the ass when you leave. The more study and research that I do only reinforces my view that this organization is bad news and I strongly encourage any witness or would be witness to carefully consider Jesus warning at Luke 21:8 because in my view this is a pointed warning about the Jehovah's Witness organization.
Luke 21:8 is spot on also 2 Corinthians 22 1-15. Different Jesus (Michael) Different Gospel (The Watchtower) Satan is cunning and devious and very, VERY clever.
*“Look! I am sending to you E·liʹjah the prophet before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah. And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons, and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.” (Mal. 4:5,6).* Who is this prophet sent to God's people before Armageddon? How will he reconcile fathers to sons (and whole families) by doing away with the unbiblical and cruel disfellowshiping doctrine? Why is this so important that if he does not do it, all those who dwell on the earth will be destroyed, including Jehovah's Witnesses? What other Bible truths will he "restore?" (Matt. 17:11). I have recently been made homeless because of the truth i speak. I was also thrown in jail because i defended myself against the actions of an apostate and yet i am the one facing criminal charges. This is what the "truth" has done to me.
Excellent video. Thank you both. A few points regarding the house to house ministry as so eloquently summerised by James Penton. In acts 20:20, 5:42 and 2:46 ...και κατ οικους. The apostle Paul was addressing the elders of the congregation of Ephesus speaking of his ministry to them specifically. There is no door to door evangelizing inferred in any of these verses. A better translation can be found in the Watchtowers own Kingdom Interlinear which gives it as : 'and according to houses'. In 20:20 there is no 'from' (απο) and οικους is in the plural form not singular.
Jim's efforts have been instrumental in helping many of us over the years. A BIG thanks to Jim. And thanks Eric too, for your efforts. I pray for you both and for the body of Christ of which we are all part. I am a 4th generation JW. When I say that, I am not laying claim to the 'title' with pride or anything. I have been 'attending' the Watchtower religion up till the time of this writing, for the many years. In fact, I am still part of the 'body' in a congregation, if you can swallow that. Only "showing the face" as we call it, because of delicate familial responsibilities. It is a willing sacrifice, but one which is coming to its end shortly. By the way, you'd be surprised at how little you can do and still be on the body. As I have been 'associated' with the "religion" (and I will use the term to the dismay of dubs), I have had the opportunity to help many out of the "religion", they at various stages of opening their eyes, many already free and away. This is ongoing. I feel like a prison guard with a secret tunnel. Back in the 80's I wrote to 'the society' on certain issues. I saw then that they had no interest in anything but in deifying the watchtower and its leader governing body. They were god unto themselves. So I began my own studies. It didn't take long to figure out some of the most important things. I got the address of Commentary Press, used a PO box and money orders, and began buying books. It was from Ray that I got Jim's book. It's right here on my shelf till now. In one of my shipments, I got many, Ray was unable to complete the shipping, as some new rules were put in place at the post office. Ray made every effort to find out my name, never had the chance to ask how he did it, and was able to finally get my last shipment to me, I no longer being anonymous. I was afraid of course. Seems funny now. But that opened the door to communication with Ray. Letters and phone calls... what a fine brother. In the end, my last email to him was when I sent him the letter from the UN DPI for publication in Crisis of Conscience 4. Jim's book was instrumental in my personal education and in the education of others whom I have had the privilege to help. It continues so. And Eric's work is proving beneficial for many people as he presses forward. I have directed person there. In one of the last discussions I had with Ray, I expressed something to him. If it had not been for the fact that I grew up in the watchtower religion, then I would not have had this one experience. That experience is, I feel, the first century experience of belonging to a culture like early Judaism and becoming aware of the truth, and being persecuted by those of your own faith. It truly put me in the mind of those who followed Jesus 2000 years ago. I believe that we are in the final days before Jesus finishes His work, as I see many more understanding Jesus' true teachings, (if they are able to put pride aside.) The "number of a man". This is not any one man. It is all men (persons). A person's number, you are born with it, is derived by a process... 666. It will be used to identify you. It is indelible. You cannot hide your number, you cannot change your number. It is part of you from the day you were conceived and we only discover it and use it. The changes now taking place are pushing the world into that paradigm. It will be humbling.
It's amusing that Brother Franz' was so consciencious about completing your book order that he broke your cover. I'm actually laughing out loud. But it's great that you had the opportunity to know him personally. I could have done the same if I had woke up sooner. :(
@@vintage6346 I was on the phone just yesterday speaking with my best friend in the world, and brother in Christ, and he brought this up. We had a window to jump on a plane and zip down to ATA for the weekend with Ray and Cynthia. We kick ourselves over this, that we didn't just drop everything and go. It bothers me still.
What a great discussion. James came to his conclusions regarding the Watchtower around the same time as I did. I read a number of books and listened to audio tapes from the folks who left Bethel around the late 70's. These materials helped me not only to realize that the Watchtower was false, but more importantly helped me to know the real Jesus Christ. Your discussion with James brought back many memories. Thank you.
I am Brother Wilson's assistant, Vintage. Hi Daniel, I "heard about" you fellows back in those days. I was pioneering in South America at that tme. Of course, I didn't have access to those materials, and wouldn't have read them anyway. It sure would have saved me from much wasted time if I'd known what you knew back then. I only woke up two years ago.
All the stories of leaving are so eerily similar. The elders turn out to be so rigid and Pharisee-like, dogmatic and hardline in their approach. And the sad part is that so many of their dogma that they have persecuted people for over the years have changed and changed and changed sometimes morphing into the very interpretation that they were too blind to have seen before
Great point Jim makes there when he mentions "Primitive Christianity" and what it was all about! This being a primary focus for truth. This morning, 05:30 I went out for a walk and was asked by a passer by "where's the train station" I pointed in the direction I was walking and said "about two miles that way". The passer by kept going the wrong way! Not easy to point some people in the right direction. Thanks both for pointing in the right direction!
Interviews like this which show us men & women who were in organization for long time who were elders, ms and pioneers of any kind have seen things which a normal publisher would never observe or face and how it made them feel disgusted by GB.
Elders , pioneers and Bethelites alike are not necessarily , "spiritual" men & women Like king Saul, who was once a humble man , if we aren't careful, can adopt negative attitudes, to the point that as with Judas, if could be said, " Satan entered into him '. Tests of our faith Like Job faced What was so admirable Was he never knew of the Devil He accepted both Good and bad , "Shall we only accept what is good from the Almighty and not accept also what is bad.. ? Naked l came out from my mother, and naked l shall return to the dust.".or words to that effect. No problem if we stumble, Thats not the problem The problem is, Staying down Not being humble and getting up! Who does that in a race in real life ? It's TRUE, it can be disappointing But, hey, who doesn't at some point ?? Dont allow Pride to stop us from getting life ! That's why flip flopping doctrines ROCK the nations and ONLY the desirable ones, will come in. Testing as to whom Is really GENUINE.
If the criteria for life everlasting is being meek and teachable Able to , like Christ, take humiliation , being despised and mockery, Then how else can we demonstrate we fit the criteria ?? Is it more important to be right than it is to be peaceable, in paradise ? Jesus was and is preparing a people.
Thank you so much brothers your talk and most encouraging I was in the truth many years as they say and I started thinking for myself, unless that is the last thing you are allowed to do. Why would they not encourage education purely to keep the masses dumb. I miss my association with some of the sisters who were very nice but obviously still dumb.
I know what you mean, Anna. Sometimes I remember a few of the sisters who had a "kind streak". But I know that if I were to contact them and encourage them to "think" and to leave Watchtower, they would be horrified and run to report me to the Society.
@@fitcwebb I believe the most difficult thing is realizing you have been deceived and now have a life and friends that are inseparable from that deception. Its maddening terrifying and plainly a disgrace.
Wonderful interview. Dr. Penton's book, Apocalypse Delayed was the third book I read when I was waking up. In fact I ordered it from Ray Franz before he passed away. I read Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz.
I can verify much of the 1975 debacle. In 1976 at the District assembly a speech was given condemning the brothers for "reading" too much into the writings. That speech, talk, dissertation, really set it motion my distrust, not of the failure of their projections, but the way they treated the brothers. Later, in late 70's, a Circuit overseer was even quoted as saying, "the end may come in the 80's", in the newspaper! At one point years later,, in my inner conflict of all this, I had a dream, a very strange dream, I even shared with an elder, that I felt safe with. He could not say, what it meant or why. He just said, it's an unexplained observation of the brain. The dream was about, how, what we felt was a source of God's word, , when one looked carefully, it was the Bible of Satan, not God. After that, I felt, it was a gift to me from my own reasoning with God's help.
I also feel the bible, especially the Old Testament has been hijacked by the wicked one, a kind of identity theft. The New Testament has also been corrupted, I feel as though anything past the four gospels is not anything true Christian need to concern themselves with. I question how a Pharisee who has never married or had children has authority to lay down laws on both subjects. Also when he said Jesus spoke to him on the road to Damascus why was it that no one else heard? How very convenient to say this so you now say you have the authority to hijack the entire movement from the apostles. Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit to help them and continue teaching, he never said he would send a Pharisee or any other human.
Thanks to both of you Brothers Pickets and Penton , for that enlightening discussion on how abusive the WT has been to those that do not completely agree with the societies teachings and demanding unquestionable loyalty and silence when trying to share their concerns about teachings that a lot of times are changed or revised as " NEW LIGHT " later on , but only by some GB member having a revelation from their god , or their DEPLETED bank accounts . I refer to ya'll as brothers because of your continued research and help understanding scripture to those who lack the knowledge or skills to discern the misguiding man made elements that make up a lot of the context that is within the societies publications . If all these publication were so full of nothing but the truth , then why would the society tell its cult members to get rid of a lot of the older Publications . The GB has a lot to answer for , to Jehovah for their pride and arrogance , which is a verse that they should read more often .....Proverbs 16 : 18 - 20 . Thanks again and God Bless Ya'll .
Very good interview Eric and Jim. Because of this service mandate, one could never feel 'enough' unless putting in 80 + hours per month in 'feild service', risking poverty and shirking other more important responsibilities. Personally I felt as if in an arranged marriage where the expectation is that you would obey and fulfill all obligations once baptized, regardless of how oppressed this could make you feel at times with the time commitments, the erroneous restrictions (no pants for women, no facial hair for men, no personal thoughts or opinions contrary to the org's., no birthdays, nor any holidays, no 'worldly' friends ...meaning no other association than JW's...). This was overreach by any organization. The refreshment promised by Christ Jesus was lost amidst the constant admonition from the 'society' ..if not castigation, to be perfect which is contrary to the comportment displayed by our Lord in that he required above all else to have love for one another. This love would be the basis for our salvation not how many hours we put in, while our families struggled, and our consciences were torn in 2 faced with the decision to serve God and somewhat abandon our family or become an outcast... divorced if you will. Elizabeth
Question for Professor Penton: What is your view now of the transition of JW's going much more to "Cart Witnessing" instead of door-to-door and what are your thoughts on Watchtower's move toward Televangelism on their website broadcasting, especially after the clear condemnatory mindset toward televangelism back in the 1980s through the 2000s?
Hello David, yes for sure there is cart witnessing now , but no less of door-to-door, for cart witnessing one has to qualify to be allowed to cart witness , and the qualification , you guessed it, you need to have high number of service hours in the door-to-door preaching work.
I got disfollowship after I wrote my disassociation letter two months before in October because they saw me doing my job at a day care the children had parade on the unerversity ground so I felt like l wanted to wear my fun colorful mask l made in my art appreciation class the cart holder was on the college ground they told the elders two days later I was disfollowship after I agree to follow up on my letter yes I nicely explain my belief in the Trinty and I found out the real deal about the JW GB . What really got me is how in the world can you have a cart on the college ground but not want members to go to a University really 😒. I thank God for my presentation to those Elders with confidence warmth and knowledge being a sister when The left all they could said is thank you for meeting with us 😊. I feel so much freedom it is wonderful to know the power of the blood of Jesus and the power the Holy Spirit and the true love of the Father. I wouldn't give that truth up to ever be a JW again. being a born in JW God showed me great attention to bring me out and l Love him for the salvation he gave me. Praise the Lord for his everlasting Loving Kindness all should know his how awesome his Power and Wisdom is . He said it is not wise to follow men. I also let them know that there is no need for me to be a JW anyway because I am not going out in the field after what l know l can't help bring people into Babalon The Great l can't do it.
Omg! It's the same story over and over regarding education. Men in positions are punished if they or their children are found to be going to 4 year college. This just happened to our family this year and finally woke me up!
William Imrie Mann was my great grandfather (my grandmother was his daughter, Margaret), and I learned about his connection to the Witnesses only in the last few years. I discovered James Penton's Apocalypse Delayed on the Internet Archive and am looking forward to reading it. I was raised in a Reformed church, and the Witnesses (or JWs, as we called them) were considered a cult. Regardless, I'm interested to learn about the early history of the movement, when WIM would have been involved, and how that affected my family history. I'm finding a line of brilliant and troubled souls descending from WIM, of which I am a part, and I want to understand it better.
I'm a worldly person, but Lloyd Evans (John Cedars channel) pointed out Deuteronomy 18: 20-22 "20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or[a] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’- 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him."
Great interview with James who always provides sound reasoning, when considering the validity of the Watchtower, you need only to analyse the subliminal images of the Watchtower to see what they are truly about, as for their so called judicial procedures, none of this is scriptual, they have added to the holy writings and as such will in due course recieve the plagues from such , they will be fully exposed long before the end of this old sytstem as nothing more than car salesmen.
John Contrary Unfortunately I was raised a Jw. The ARC woke me up and Brother Jacksons lying ass whilst being questioned by the RC. I then read Ray’s book that answered every single querie that thinking Jw’s ever had or have.
Frank, even though I disagree with you, I appreciate the respectful and calm way that you stated your thought. Otherwise, I'd be reluctant to respond. To me, the Bible is God's trusted communication with us humans. It's my compass in life. I have a BA and was a member of Mensa... too pricey to continue. :) It took me a lifetime to see the fallacy of Watchtower, whereas many with less formal education, and less test-passing ability, spotted the lie "right off the bat". But the Bible is trustworthy. Watchtower has misused it for it's own selfish purposes. Jesus' way of dealing with others, as documented in the Bible, clears up the confusion that Watchtower created. Have you left a religious organization?
@@vintage6346 I believed the Bible because my parents taught me to, but I bogged down trying to read it (that was back then, I have by now read it several times, except maybe Jeremiah which I can't do more than just scan). Then came the idiocy in Vietnam with atheists trying to impose their ideas on Roman Catholics and the latter trying to take over a Buddhist nation, all in the name of the Bible. I find good things in the Bible, but it's like the proverbial state of Texas, with a lot of scrub between the good parts. I also find good things in the Pali texts of Buddhism, the Confucian Ethics, etc., etc. Besides, really now, there is so much in the Bible that contradicts science, is unethical and even hateful. (I especially dislike Timothy) I don't mind having the Bible quoted to me, but I am not more persuaded than if someone quotes Shakespeare.
Would love to know if anyone has information on my great aunt Ivy (brown)? was disfellowshiped in the early 90s after many years and believed wrote a book. She would be dead now moved to Canada from England in the war and was not spoken of from about 1992 dispite being a hero in the family and possibly the root to our JW background. She visited us in the 80s and she was a lovely outgoing lady who apparently found herself a toyboy pior to getting out RIP auntie Ivy
I'm glad these guys are out of the religion, but it's hard to feel sorry for people who believed such horrible things in the first place. At one time these beliefs were just fine with them. So it's hard to have a lot of respect for them.
Mandy, Many of us were "born in". It was all we knew. I think that,... just reading people's stories online,... it has been easier for those who were not "born in" to leave Watchtower. But looking at this from a different angle, the two brothers in this video are drawing on their own experiences to help others get free. That's the best that any of us can do. And, btw, having people "feel sorry for them" seems to be the furtherest thing from their mind. I'm amazed at their knowledge of history and scripture, and I respect them.
Brother Wilson, I would love to see you do an interview with Lloyd Evans (john cedars). You both have such a simple calm peaceful approach. However he is now agnostic atheist. I feel like it would be an extremely thought provoking conversation
I actually am not sure that their current belief systems would be the main focus but they each are well spoken and respectful and extremely knowledgeable about the watchtower organization. I am moved and inspired by how passionate they each are when it comes to the tyranny of the wt organization
In my experience lloyd is a skilled interviewer. He puts the focus on the person with whom he is speaking. I enjoyed his interview with jim penton immensely. He is excellent at providing a vehicle for a person to fully explain thoughts and viewpoints. The interviews I have seen were respectful and unbiased. I think avoiding a person or platform because that person holds to a belief system that differs from your own is dangerously similar to the watchtower's approach. I think a discussion between these 2 men would be interesting and thought provoking. But that is just my opinion. I respect that you dont agree and understand your perspective.
Yes I can agree that debate was cringeworthy. I dont share Lloyd's conclusion and beliefs but I dont think it is fair to say he only cares about material things. He speaks a lot of morality and what drives humanity. He just doesn't think that stems from a diety. I am unsure if he would debate with a truly knowledgeable person surrounding the topic of the bible but I would really love to see it. I most certainly have my doubts especially around some things in the scriptures that strike me as immoral. I hope you are wrong and lloyd wouldn't shy away from it. But it sounds like you have a better idea from previous attempts to engage in conversation.
I wish I was in Australia ;-) New York. I'm half asleep but off the top of my head.... jehovah killing David's child because of his adultery. Hardly seems fair to the child. I know the watchtower's answer and it reeks of bull crap
It is important to me because if the bible depicts God as immoral or unjust then the bible is unreliable because in other verses it clearly states the opposite (that he is loving and fair) so it would be a complete contradiction and untrustworthy.
Hello Eric, I need help , I may (only) May need blood fir a cancer checking surgery, the reason dosnt matter, I’m an ex j w so it’s not that, I follow Jesus and in the bible there is a passage about blood, it’s life, and partaking if it means you are not going to be part of the resserection, I have to read find the scripture, I googled scriptures on blood ignoring anything to do with j w s so I could get a clean christan perspective, do you have an opinion or a scripture I could look up?, this scripture went Past the animal blood draining , it went into blood as life, I’m not able to read the bibje like you, as hard as I might and I prayed in tears, anything you could help me with? I’m probably won’t need blood, but as the put me to sleep I will know the possibility is there and it will be a horrible feeling taking that chance, I know the g b changed the rules but, I follow god before men and it didn’t matter if the g b said all blood now, it’s what’s in the bible
Rita McDonald I’m sorry to hear about your surgery. I’ve been trying to find the scripture you talk about that says having a blood transfusion will cut you off from the resurrection. Can you please tell me what scripture you’re referring to so I can see this?
@@alanachamberlain5257 We as JW's were given Acts Chapter 15, verses 20 and 29 regarding "abstaining from blood" as interpreted by WT as being a death penalty at Armageddon. Nathan Knorr & Freddy Franz pulled this out of the sky as it turns out in 1945 and then enforced it as a disfellowshipping offense if a JW got a blood transfusion by 1961.
I'm sorry you are going through this. I do not have this scripture you are looking for,however through a bunch of research I have been doing, I do not believe we were mandated not to have a medical procedure,but in eating blood only.One thing I have recently also pondered is. The WT changed to allow so blood blood fractions, I believe in the 80s,but still do not allow white blood cells. If you look at a nursing women with babies and young children,our bodies were made to produce milk. If you look it up,there are billions of white blood cells in a millilitre of breast milk. We feed our children by nursing,so we are actually doing a body to body transfer of white blood cells, therefore when we drink milk from other animals, I would think the same as well. However we have no mandates in regards to feeding milk,and/or drinking milk. I hope all goes well for you.
Alana Chamberlain I looked again and I can come up with Leviticus 17 and I know I spelled wrong, I hope this can help, I’m not sure this is the one but it’s close , thankyou
It is my opinion that our heavenly Father allowed this organization to function to accomplish His will . . . on some levels - perhaps in assisting to identify some false doctrine(s) (i.e. Trinity, hell, immortal soul), and to some degree, even perhaps the msg of the "kingdom" (Luke 4:43), albeit, attached to a plethora of false doctrines attached to it. But it has become more than abundantly clear to me that our Lord is allowing them to be exposed for what they really are, and always have been - - - genuine false prophets, standing as gods to be lauded by men . . . forcing, more than ever, the follower's to take their stand on THEIR side. Doing so is an incredible level of contempt for our Lord Jesus, and our Father Jah!
Welcome to the place where Satan dwells, the DECEPTION is they think they can be saved from being where they are and Jesus gave warning, your name was recorded in the lambs book of Life since before this world was created, nothing can pluck you out of FATHERs hand's except if you choose to believe the lies of the church Jesus said come out of, Angels in hell, college, here under contract of which none know about nor have remembered, seduced by the the spirit of the fake Jesus, the Real Jesus said would come
Yes, and then a prophet is sent to them before Armageddon to "turn back fathers hearts to sons" and vice versa. In other words, he will abolish the cruel and unbiblical disfellowshiping doctrine which seperates fathers from sons and splits whole families apart, otherwise God will destroy EVERYONE (read Malachi 4:5,6). This "Elijah" prophet will also "restore all things" (all Bible truths) (Matt. 17:11). Who is he? What truths does he know? How will he be given this power? (Rev. 11: 11).
It speaks volumes about Mr. James Penton's character, that he had over 80 people follow him out of that cult.
True story: In June 1992 when I was 20 years old I started studying with JW and attending KHall meetings. Less than a month later my non-JW Mom died at 58. By late summer certain co-workers of mine found out I had been studying and one of them was a college student at Northeastern Illinois Chicago. He brought me James Penton's book "Apocalypse Delayed". I brought it home, skimmed it over, slightly intrigued, yet I was scared to go further and had started to read about "apostate" writings during my study at some point.
So I brought the book to my JW "bible study conductor", he skimmed it not really reading any of it, shoved it back across the table to me and looked me dead in the eye stating "David, I won't read this because this book is designed to destroy my faith". I thought about it after going home and returned Penton's book back to my co-worker who was quite upset and angry at me for getting involved with Jehovah's Witnesses. He was a sort of pure anarchist. He never spoke to me again. I honestly thought that was "Jehovah directing matters" and unfortunately I wound up continuing my study with JW and got baptized in 1994 pre-internet. If only I had read Jim Penton's book instead of skimming and dismissing it I could have avoided the JW hijacking but I was already too indoctrinated. My sad story of losing the young prime of my adulthood to watchtower for 25+ years before finally awakening in 2017. And it takes a long time for the high control cultic cobwebs to be cleaned off.
I agree with you. Don't lose heart. I'm 62 and spent my life from about 7 years old being indoctrinated into the cult. I'm free of it for only about 5 months now. But I can honestly say that everything that I did in my past decades has been all for Jehovah God, regardless of being in a cult. I've gone through the mourning period and now can look back and see good things and it's been a real wake up call. All the red flags or problems I've had through the years in many different congregations that I've been in, all make sense once I left. I'm free. You're free.
I Dont believe Nothing was/is wasted in our learning process (experiences in life) to conform to the intended image of God in Sonship (likeness in charachter and qualities) .
The one quality seen and shaped by God in us ( in whatever denomination) is our motivation through Christ's reconcillation process working in us as adopted sons. Ephesians 1 colossians 1 Romans 8 Hebrew 2 ....2 Corinthians 5
Shalom in Christ
Im out also ..done my boot camp !
Still trucking along...
David Wicklin Very good explanation to high control cobwebs in a cult,it’s weird sometimes to me that it takes a while to just forget the lies,but it is a severe brainwashing technic that Watchtower uses and did me under for ten of my senior years,feel so dumb ,angry and gullible .
David Wicklin: can I ask you, what is it you have awoken to? Thanks in advance..
@@sasquatchmeridian3094 The REAL, ACTUAL facts of reality about this the watchtower organization that calls itself "the truth", which we audaciously and arrogantly repeated to each other in the Borg and those coming "in" to the Borg.
Where can I start about what I awokened to? How about the watchtower child sexual abuse cover-ups and their own in-house database protecting and hiding JW pedophiles on their internal list they refuse to turn over to police authorities or to court subpoenas unredacted, let alone specifically notifying other parents and congregants of the dangers these individuals present knowing the high recidivism rate child molestors have.
You see, in my 25 years as a devout Jehovah's Witness I actually fervently believed we truly ascribed to the pinnacle of the highest moral standards above and beyond anyone else out there. I thought discipline was administered "properly" for many years and that the elders themselves were fully compliant with laws and statutes and were proactive in helping the victims. Instead what I researched was that the victims of pedophilia/child abuse were often blamed such as the cases of Erica Garza, Candace Conti, Holly Brewer, Stephanie Fessler just to name a few cases to begin with as the list is exhaustively huge for an organization comprised of 8 million+ to have thousands of perverts on a database who have engaged in criminal Sodom & Gomorrah-type behavior despite having supposed in-depth systematic Bible study encompassing morality and virtues, let alone the abhorrence scripture itself expresses toward such perverted criminal acts. I had NO IDEA, NO CLUE that there was such a problem. I thought these were anomalies, an aberration, an isolated incident like with the Bethelite elder Jesus Manuel Cano getting busted at O'Hare airport. (Google his name and you'll see the news stories).
What else? How about the flip-flops on the blood doctrine costing JW lives. The perpetual shunning that goes on for years. Beth Sarim & Beth Shan as RutherFraud lived like a pimped out prosperity preacher in his posh, palatial palace much of his later years between 1929-1942 along with having two 16-cylinder Cadillacs at his disposal during the Great Depression. I wasn't aware of that until recently. Nor was I aware of how many times the Borg predicted, prophesied or expected Armageddon falsely, hijacking members lives by telling us don't go to college or don't seek out higher advanced education, that it's all "from Satan". That's the tip of the Iceberg with those major issues of integrity and seriousness.
2 men I greatly admire. Mr Wilson & Mr Penton.
Thank you for sharing your story 😊
Even though I was disfellowship years ago, I always continued to pray for guidance to find the truth. You and your information are uplifting and strong in my heart. Thank you...
Mark Garcia watch Jason Zelda , he will blow you away.
@@hopalonglost Jason Zelda was huge for me. After that I read one of the "Red Letter" bibles that put all Jesus words in Red. It all makes sense now, why the worshipers of Jehovah thought he was a demon possessed blasphemer... Jesus clearly pointed out that they were worshiping the devil who requires human sacrifice and accepts blood sacrifice. Jehovah is Satan the devil a liar and a murder, god of this world. John 8: 1-58 & Hosea 6:6. Jesus broke Jehovah's law refusing to stone the adulterous, broke the sabbath and denounced Jehovah's earthly organization and its leaders.
What a wonderful brother. I was very young when I had my first judicial committee meeting. It’s put so much fear in me. I now have problems that hold me back in life.
This was a wonderful interview .. thank you both Eric and Dr Penton so much for your honesty and integrity for truth.
Dear Eric, Thank you , Thank you so much . This interview was amazing to the core . This is exactly what I feel wasting my time for the last 17 years and putting my family thru this. The door to door ministry is a colossal waste of time and sadly so many young families struggle to spend quality family time. I will be writing to Jim . I will be supporting your works Eric. I would not want young families like mine was back then to go through what I went and am going through now.
I have had many talks with District Overseers, Circuit Overseers, elders, etc. about my last marriage to a 'brother.' He did not provide for me, punched me in the face, admitted to reviling me for 22 years, he abused the kids mentally and physically, wouldn't provide for us and on and on. I told those brothers that this organization is a boys' club. I have never had justice for me nor the kids with the ex-husband. The ex only got a slap on the hand, private reproof. I couldn't believe it. Yet, I'm the one who had to stay faithful to Jehovah and not date or remarry. Forget that! I'm free of Watchtower now and thankful for it. And you're both right about feeling a freedom that you never had whilst in the organization. It feels good to be one to one with the true God, and to feel dedicated to him alone and not to the Satanic Watchtower organization.
D Cee.
Jah alone knows what goes on behind closed doors.
Sounds like that ex had issues .
Glad you're safe.
@@compositioncompilation Thanks.
I think its about dossiers..
Almighty God is collating one with a list of names.
Those whose names are listed
Are there because of their integrity ,
This dossier is being kept, as it were, for all whose consciences have been stirred
Yet remain undeterred
By the rocking of the nations
By the teachings that have gone like the waves, hither and thither,
Because they accept they're following the appointed leaders
Like the Israelites did with Moses and Aaron his brother
Oh , they also had a sister
Who though prominent
Her hand was made to wither
By various tests of faith
The people then were sifted
You could tell by who was alive when the scourge was lifted.
Why He himself sinned when his patience reached its limit
When leading the great host
There were many hardships but maybe there was no love or meekness left in him..
I used to think The Almighty was somewhat harsh in the severity with which He punished him ..
In the same way, of humanity, all will face an accounting .
That includes those who are spiritually governing .
The man of lawlessness
Even if he is right there, in the boardroom
A participant in Making decisions and policies
Like judas, who was corrupt and a traitor from within
A greedy man with his selfish agenda...
All of this Jah , factors in .
Nothing is missing.
By tests and trials
Jah can tell
Who is and who is not ,
GENUINE.
That's a prejudicial statement
Which for some might be upsetting
Those who cant keep in step
Because they like to dance to another rhythm.
We can look at things physically or we can do so spiritually ,
Had we been back there, would we have accused Moses, of nepotism ?
Well,my point is..
HE wasnt perfect, nor infallible, so DEFINITELY ,
NOT BEYOND CRITICISM.
On top of that, did he not have a Midianite wife ?
So how can we now expect to have 8 men , that are perfect and infallible then ?
In revelation 11 : 5 & 6 besides,
It tells us God made provision for them ,
He there tells us ,they're
Licensed ..to strike earth with all manner of plagues. ....
Yeah..you might say
Caught up in the fray
It's not these,
Ok..so
When they arrive,
How can you be sure you will be ready for them ?
For they are ordained to bring
NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES .
Will we be like Job
Who forgave the errant men.
After all, by whom was it said
"The time will come , when those who deliver you up to be persecuted or killed , will imagine they've rendered a sacred service ", was it not Christ?
And which are the ones who have the identical profile
or the exact same sentiments ?
Just as the psalmist said
They're on the verge of violence
Which you ll find at psalm 2 :3,
Of Gods peoples ' enemies.
Have no fear,
For this also, must be
In order to fulfill prophecy.
D Cee.
I've had so called brothers do wicked things to me, and heard of others that experienced simlarly,
I take comfort in ps 37
Speaking of the time when reward is being handed out of everlasting life In paradise ,
" you will look for them, and they will not be "
They may fool us now, pretending to be something they're not at heart , but they dont fool the Almighty ,
That's a fact !
I'm so happy for you l experience the same abuse your children growing up in the organization. My friends later told me they knew what was going on but didn't know how to help they all sat around one and talked about it. I always love my Dad ❤️ he just didn't know how to deal with his pass effectively and being witness didn't help much either but look at God. He showed up and showed out 😂 made my life way better than what my friends could of did for me. When you learn of the Father Son and Holy Spirit the truth of Gods Word of salvation you are set free as Jesus said. We both are free.
We loved it. You are both so well-spoken and sharp. I do love Watch tower history. I'm surprised at how much I missed. I surely missed everything about Jim penton's experience in Canada until recently. But now I know you both and feel very privileged to call you my brothers and friends. Sheryl 😊
Amazing interview!! I lived through the 1975 prediction as well and can relate so well to everything discussed. You are my brothers. Thank you for the work you are doing.
I fully appreciate your choice to address the teachings and policies of the jw org. with humility and grace and that you have continued your service to Jesus Christ
I love these interviews, you can’t make these experiences up. I’m so happy he encouraged his children to pursue a good education. Thank you for producing such informative and important videos, they’re life-saving.
Thank you Mr Penton for taking time to do this interview. I grew up as a Witness, never baptized,kinda faded away,however never really doing any serious research to discover whether teachings were true or not. Upon delving further, finding the twisted verses, hidden information, incorrectly interpetated scriptures which have no biblical basis any longer, abuse, I can in good faith say that this organization does not have the truth. I implore anyone currently in it,or in the midst of getting into it, to get researching everything you can get your hands on. If this was the truth, it should be able to stand up to the research and scrutiny, after all the truth should be the truth. However the WT,does not want you researching, I believe they know that once you start looking and researching,you will find enough serious issues within the organization, that your eyes will be open to the fact that they are not the truth.
Thank you so much Eric and James! We need people like you. We need your wisdom. Keep up the good work!
Thank you Eric and James for your information to us . Greatly appreciated .
Thanks Eric, and James, for sharing the interesting experiences you have had. It is very helpful to me.
Wow, wow wow...Amazing work James..Thank you very much for sharing your story...
The watch tower is simply a manmade, legalistic corporation managed by men....no Holy Spirit in such a place. Great interview!
Because none of you listened to Jesus... He said you live where Satan dwells and to come out of the church and their beliefs and follow CHRIST through the narrow path inside the house of YOU where the Kingdom of God is CHRIST within the house of YOU, Jees he's us Yesh u are, .... GREAT seducing spirit posing as Jesus, the fake Jesus...all religions,
None of you listened to Jesus, your name was recorded in the lambs book of Life since before this world was created, oh by the way you live where Satan dwells, this is not your home, ..it's a video game called Life... wake up sleepy Angels
Great interview I really appreciate this one Eric
Dear Eric thank you so much for the two recent videos I’ve just watched with your interview with Jim Penton.
I’m so grateful for your own insight and the wonderful past knowledge that Jim has amassed over the years especially with regard to the early history and past presidents of the Watchtower.
I left the organisation 20 years ago but am only now getting to know the truth about the truth so thanks once again and keep up the good work.
Extremely grateful for these videos! Thank you for taking your time to make these!
Hi Eric, I don't know if you will read this but I've been brought up in the truth for 57 years but this last year I only went to the memorial, n I felt like something is wrong, then in August this year I found a video on child abuse n then saw the Australian royal commission, n I felt so sick inside. I have felt like I have never fitted In the organisation, but since I've found out bout all these thing's, I've felt physically sick n actually had panic attacks over it. I feel so scared that my family who are still in the truth will find out that I'm not excepting it any more n they will shun me. I was brought up from birth. I cannot get out of my head that I'm going to be destroyed at armaggedon. I've watched your videos n you sound like the most honest person I know. The way you explain the scriptures makes so much sense to me, I really don't know where to turn anymore, the bible was always so hard for me to understand, but the way you explain the scriptures is unbelievable, I can actually grasp what your saying. I feel so scared inside because I feel my world has totally been destroyed, I still love jehovah and jesus christ but I don't know where to turn anymore. I'm under a psychiatrist and have explained everything to him about it, but the problem is, is that if the jws are not the "truth" then who is! Where do I turn to. I really love listening to your videos Eric, please keep them coming, thank you so much x
@@moondust7902 Ive Read Your Testimony An Felt Your Hurt it's Sad What Happened . I Also SeeThat You Have Love For God Yahweh &His Christ In Your Heart & What is Going On In This Religion .Ive Read Other People's Um Storie's. An Ouite Shocking At What Has Happened. I Don't Know What ICan Say To Ease The Pain Hurt Of You. So Here is What I Have To Say I see that you have faith and God in Christ and also I guess you're a little afraid. That your family will find out that you know the truth of what is happening. I Believe The Yahweh is using People To expose What Is Going On In This Religion An As More &More People Are Waking Up He God Will Take Action At The Appointed Time To See This Organization Pay For its Wrong Doing. Jesus Said Keep on Asking &Keep Knocking For Anwser's I Am Not An X jw Or. A Member Just An Person Who Happened To Come Across These Video's I Know Of Family &Friend's That Are J W. Hope That Some How This Has Helped In A. Way
@@mervjohnson2140 thank you so much for your support, this is the first time I have ever made a comment on any video. I was brought up to be absolutely terrified of apostates etc, but since I've been watching different videos, I've realised that they are just ordinary people who are just telling they're story. I've learnt more now since I started watching these videos back at the end of August this year than I have the entire 57 yrs I've been in the, 'truth'
I just feel totally devastated that I've been so black and white all my life, n now I don't know what is the Real Truth! I am going to start reading the bible from scratch but not the NWT. When I listen to Eric explain the scriptures, it really makes sense to me, the problem is that I'm so indoctrinated and conditioned in the JW beliefs, that I can't seem to get any of it out of my head, I'm convinced I'm going to be destroyed when the end comes. I've prayed to jehovah to actually ask him if he can put me to sleep when the time comes because I still love him n jesus christ, I just can't do this anymore!
Anyway I really appreciate you taking the time to write a comment to me, thank you, God bless x
@@moondust7902 I just Read Your Comment An Thanks . If I Can Say This One Thing Remember That.
Yahweh &Christ Have Love For You. An It's. A Person's Heart That God &Christ Look At So Have Faith In Both An when The Time Come's For Christ To judge Mankind He Will Remember Thoese That Have Love For God & Christ & Thier Fellow Man .I Hope This Give's You Some Kind of assurance. An Like I Said. Keep Asking An Knocking For Answers An continue to study the Bible With a sincere heart. An God Bless Your Effort's In Your Search For Him Amen
Susy Q watch Jason Zelda ,he will blow you away.
Brilliant!
Thank you !
Enjoying the interviews, hope you are planning more in the future.
the kindness of these men especially for the sisters who have been put thru the horror of a judicial committee, i thank you.
Thank you both very, very much! One of the BEST videos ever! I disassociated in 2000 and can relate to your experiences....best wishes!
Excellent interview ! Thank you Jim for sharing your experience hope to see more of you brothers for I'm so encouraged by it
Thank you , Bro. Penton! Enjoyed your book! You too, Eric!! 👍👍
Excellent, balanced discussion.
My dad (who remained a nominal JW until his death in 2009) was mad as hell after reading the July 15, 1979 Watchtower. He said "... they're blaming the rank and file for 1975. That's bullsh*t".
He never forgave The Society.
When he had a stroke years later and lost his vision, he only wanted me to read the Bible to him.
He said "The Society has become a corporate religion".
Thanks again.
Your father was obviously a very wise man . The cult hates wise men .
Brilliant!! Would love to see more James Jim Penton online ….such an important voice on all matters WatchTower, he credible sincere …& very likeable
Thanks you Brothers
What a wonderful interview brothers I am learning so much.Thanks May God spirit continue to guide you.
You are both my heros!!
I've been out since 1986 and learned of Jim Penton shortly after and many of the other "Apostate Greats" of the time.
Blessings!!!
Thank you James for sharing your story!
Another brilliant interview sir. Mr. Penton is genius. Crisis of Conscience is on my table.
Thank u brothers I love truth so much thanks for your share I watched Raymond Frez. Video. Some time back all you older gentlemen are so inspirational to me. You may have left watchtower but never left Jehovah and his begotten one and only son we are to help everyone that we can and you guys are doing a great job may jehovah bless u both keep up the good work
You guys are amazing, I have learned a mass amount of information about this cult. Now I am learning how to sew the seed of doubt to JW's.
Thank you dear Brothers for this encouraging video . Four years later and still touching our bruised hearts in such healing and loving way.
This is interesting! I’ve read several books including the report that journalist wrote about the way the witnesses hounded and harassed anyone who would support Mr. Penton. It was a very ugly story and went on for a long time.
I’ve found it almost impossible to convince the JWs who still speak to me about the despicable way dissenting witnesses are treated. Several people have asked me why I left and then refused to believe what happened to me. I’ve come to regard this as a good example of what the mental health people call “hysterical blindness”. The fog of brainwash is so ingrained it also causes “fixed delusions”. This religion is one of the most evil, devious and intellect destroying cults ever invented.
Many decades ago I tried to get the book “Crisis of Conscience” from the Vancouver public library. Every time I went there it was always signed out. The clerk told me the waiting list was so long she couldn’t believe it! I then suspected that every elder in town was signing the book out so congregants couldn’t get to read it.
Later I found out this was true.
Glad to be out, educated and free! I for one don’t regard JWs as wonderful but misguided people. My experiences with them were mostly unpleasant... slandering miserable women, philandering husbands, nasty couples living double lives.
Joan, find non trinitarian former JWs here at - facebook’s - - non-trinitarian help for Jehovah’s Witnesses
im always happy to hear from you eric, thank you james, I am deeply shocked from what ive heard tonight, thank you both again for giving us a lot more strength to go forward
steve austin watch Jason Zelda, he will blow you away.
muted spark Hi, yes sadly that can be the case, but I will always have faith and I will never let anyone take that away from me. Only one would be myself...! I love God & his son Christ Jesus. ☺️
His book was what woke me up, that's how I found out about R Franz. I saw his book in the library, curiosity got the best of me. Thank you sir for your attention to detail in your book.
thank you for sharing your story, James
I enjoyed that conversation. I wish my parents had opened their minds like you. It's all very sad.
Thanks so much both of you. Really appreciate it.
The more I look into this the worse it seems to get.
busymountain, that’s because it is as bad as it looks
I only go to meetings to support my wife and friends but cannot focus on much of the talks or WT studies. Actually I find myself studying other topics while at the studies. I still love those brothers and not going to change that and will stick with it until I cannot. Keeping my mouth shut in the meantime and not interested in service obviously.
busymountain, so many of us have been in or currently in similar situations. I was serving as an elder for at least five years feeling like this. But at the time I could see no way out.
Maybe you are too. Then one day it literally was all too much and things had to change. I resigned, walked out of the KH and have never been back. That was two years ago... and as our friends here have said, the freedom is truly wonderful. Yes, we have lost some family and almost all our friends.... even though we are not DFed or officially disassociated we are shunned by most. This is the price of real truth. True freedom awaits you when you are ready along with friends that have no conditions attached to their friendship.
@@busymountain We should talk.
Earnest Hemmingpants what do you suggest?
Thank you Eric and Jim. I studied with a very fine elder but had some doctrinal disagreements that I expressed to both the US branch and the governing body. It became very apparent to me that the governing body has no interest in bible truth. When you send a dissenting letter to the governing body they just simply forward it to the local elders. The elders requested a meeting with me in which two elders insulted me. They had no interest in bible truth. They questioned my intelligence and warned me about the dangers of the internet. They terminated my bible study. Their attitude was get in line, sit down, shut up, or don't let the door hit you in the ass when you leave. The more study and research that I do only reinforces my view that this organization is bad news and I strongly encourage any witness or would be witness to carefully consider Jesus warning at Luke 21:8 because in my view this is a pointed warning about the Jehovah's Witness organization.
Luke 21:8 is spot on also 2 Corinthians 22 1-15.
Different Jesus (Michael)
Different Gospel (The Watchtower)
Satan is cunning and devious and very, VERY clever.
*“Look! I am sending to you E·liʹjah the prophet before the coming of the great and awe-inspiring day of Jehovah. And he will turn the hearts of fathers back toward sons, and the hearts of sons back toward fathers, so that I may not come and strike the earth, devoting it to destruction.” (Mal. 4:5,6).*
Who is this prophet sent to God's people before Armageddon? How will he reconcile fathers to sons (and whole families) by doing away with the unbiblical and cruel disfellowshiping doctrine? Why is this so important that if he does not do it, all those who dwell on the earth will be destroyed, including Jehovah's Witnesses? What other Bible truths will he "restore?" (Matt. 17:11).
I have recently been made homeless because of the truth i speak. I was also thrown in jail because i defended myself against the actions of an apostate and yet i am the one facing criminal charges. This is what the "truth" has done to me.
@@ElectricEarth 😟
😢
Excellent video. Thank you both.
A few points regarding the house to house ministry as so eloquently summerised by James Penton. In acts 20:20, 5:42 and 2:46 ...και κατ οικους. The apostle Paul was addressing the elders of the congregation of Ephesus speaking of his ministry to them specifically. There is no door to door evangelizing inferred in any of these verses.
A better translation can be found in the Watchtowers own Kingdom Interlinear which gives it as : 'and according to houses'. In 20:20 there is no 'from' (απο) and οικους is in the plural form not singular.
Jim's efforts have been instrumental in helping many of us over the years. A BIG thanks to Jim. And thanks Eric too, for your efforts. I pray for you both and for the body of Christ of which we are all part.
I am a 4th generation JW. When I say that, I am not laying claim to the 'title' with pride or anything. I have been 'attending' the Watchtower religion up till the time of this writing, for the many years. In fact, I am still part of the 'body' in a congregation, if you can swallow that. Only "showing the face" as we call it, because of delicate familial responsibilities. It is a willing sacrifice, but one which is coming to its end shortly. By the way, you'd be surprised at how little you can do and still be on the body.
As I have been 'associated' with the "religion" (and I will use the term to the dismay of dubs), I have had the opportunity to help many out of the "religion", they at various stages of opening their eyes, many already free and away. This is ongoing. I feel like a prison guard with a secret tunnel.
Back in the 80's I wrote to 'the society' on certain issues. I saw then that they had no interest in anything but in deifying the watchtower and its leader governing body. They were god unto themselves. So I began my own studies. It didn't take long to figure out some of the most important things.
I got the address of Commentary Press, used a PO box and money orders, and began buying books. It was from Ray that I got Jim's book. It's right here on my shelf till now.
In one of my shipments, I got many, Ray was unable to complete the shipping, as some new rules were put in place at the post office. Ray made every effort to find out my name, never had the chance to ask how he did it, and was able to finally get my last shipment to me, I no longer being anonymous. I was afraid of course. Seems funny now.
But that opened the door to communication with Ray. Letters and phone calls... what a fine brother. In the end, my last email to him was when I sent him the letter from the UN DPI for publication in Crisis of Conscience 4.
Jim's book was instrumental in my personal education and in the education of others whom I have had the privilege to help. It continues so. And Eric's work is proving beneficial for many people as he presses forward. I have directed person there.
In one of the last discussions I had with Ray, I expressed something to him. If it had not been for the fact that I grew up in the watchtower religion, then I would not have had this one experience. That experience is, I feel, the first century experience of belonging to a culture like early Judaism and becoming aware of the truth, and being persecuted by those of your own faith. It truly put me in the mind of those who followed Jesus 2000 years ago.
I believe that we are in the final days before Jesus finishes His work, as I see many more understanding Jesus' true teachings, (if they are able to put pride aside.)
The "number of a man". This is not any one man. It is all men (persons). A person's number, you are born with it, is derived by a process... 666. It will be used to identify you. It is indelible. You cannot hide your number, you cannot change your number. It is part of you from the day you were conceived and we only discover it and use it. The changes now taking place are pushing the world into that paradigm. It will be humbling.
It's amusing that Brother Franz' was so consciencious about completing your book order that he broke your cover. I'm actually laughing out loud. But it's great that you had the opportunity to know him personally. I could have done the same if I had woke up sooner. :(
@@vintage6346 I was on the phone just yesterday speaking with my best friend in the world, and brother in Christ, and he brought this up. We had a window to jump on a plane and zip down to ATA for the weekend with Ray and Cynthia. We kick ourselves over this, that we didn't just drop everything and go. It bothers me still.
Excellent truths!!
I enjoy this man's videos greatly.
Very eye opening
”Ran afoul” ❤️❤️❤️❤️😂😂😂😂
Love you both!
Thank you for your support for JW women.
Great interview!
God bless you BOTH always! ✝️
Great interview!! 👍👍👍
Keep up the good work! 👍😀
What a great discussion. James came to his conclusions regarding the Watchtower around the same time as I did. I read a number of books and listened to audio tapes from the folks who left Bethel around the late 70's. These materials helped me not only to realize that the Watchtower was false, but more importantly helped me to know the real Jesus Christ. Your discussion with James brought back many memories. Thank you.
I am Brother Wilson's assistant, Vintage.
Hi Daniel,
I "heard about" you fellows back in those days. I was pioneering in South America at that tme. Of course, I didn't have access to those materials, and wouldn't have read them anyway. It sure would have saved me from much wasted time if I'd known what you knew back then. I only woke up two years ago.
Well I understand how you feel. However being shunned by my family for the past 38yrs has not been fun either. I'm glad we are both out though.
All the stories of leaving are so eerily similar. The elders turn out to be so rigid and Pharisee-like, dogmatic and hardline in their approach. And the sad part is that so many of their dogma that they have persecuted people for over the years have changed and changed and changed sometimes morphing into the very interpretation that they were too blind to have seen before
Great point Jim makes there when he mentions "Primitive Christianity" and what it was all about! This being a primary focus for truth. This morning, 05:30 I went out for a walk and was asked by a passer by "where's the train station" I pointed in the direction I was walking and said "about two miles that way". The passer by kept going the wrong way! Not easy to point some people in the right direction. Thanks both for pointing in the right direction!
Unless maybe the passerby was trying to get "away" from the train station? :)
Interviews like this which show us men & women who were in organization for long time who were elders, ms and pioneers of any kind have seen things which a normal publisher would never observe or face and how it made them feel disgusted by GB.
Elders , pioneers and Bethelites alike are not necessarily , "spiritual" men & women
Like king Saul, who was once a humble man , if we aren't careful, can adopt negative attitudes, to the point that as with Judas, if could be said, " Satan entered into him '.
Tests of our faith
Like Job faced
What was so admirable
Was he never knew of the Devil
He accepted both Good and bad ,
"Shall we only accept what is good from the Almighty and not accept also what is bad.. ?
Naked l came out from my mother, and naked l shall return to the dust.".or words to that effect.
No problem if we stumble,
Thats not the problem
The problem is,
Staying down
Not being humble and getting up!
Who does that in a race in real life ?
It's TRUE, it can be disappointing
But, hey, who doesn't at some point ??
Dont allow Pride to stop us from getting life !
That's why flip flopping doctrines ROCK the nations and ONLY the desirable ones, will come in.
Testing as to whom
Is really GENUINE.
If the criteria for life everlasting is being meek and teachable
Able to , like Christ, take humiliation , being despised and mockery,
Then how else can we demonstrate we fit the criteria ??
Is it more important to be right than it is to be peaceable, in paradise ?
Jesus was and is preparing a people.
Very powerful.
Good interview
Wonderful information ! Thank you
Thank you so much brothers your talk and most encouraging I was in the truth many years as they say and I started thinking for myself, unless that is the last thing you are allowed to do. Why would they not encourage education purely to keep the masses dumb. I miss my association with some of the sisters who were very nice but obviously still dumb.
I know what you mean, Anna. Sometimes I remember a few of the sisters who had a "kind streak". But I know that if I were to contact them and encourage them to "think" and to leave Watchtower, they would be horrified and run to report me to the Society.
It’s always about staying in power and maintaining their positions. Same fears that the Pharisees had with Jesus preaching.
It really does seem like the whole thing boils down to a "power trip"
@@fitcwebb I believe the most difficult thing is realizing you have been deceived and now have a life and friends that are inseparable from that deception. Its maddening terrifying and plainly a disgrace.
Wonderful interview. Dr. Penton's book, Apocalypse Delayed was the third book I read when I was waking up. In fact I ordered it from Ray Franz before he passed away. I read Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz.
I can verify much of the 1975 debacle. In 1976 at the District assembly a speech was given condemning the brothers for "reading" too much into the writings. That speech, talk, dissertation, really set it motion my distrust, not of the failure of their projections, but the way they treated the brothers. Later, in late 70's, a Circuit overseer was even quoted as saying, "the end may come in the 80's", in the newspaper! At one point years later,, in my inner conflict of all this, I had a dream, a very strange dream, I even shared with an elder, that I felt safe with. He could not say, what it meant or why. He just said, it's an unexplained observation of the brain. The dream was about, how, what we felt was a source of God's word, , when one looked carefully, it was the Bible of Satan, not God. After that, I felt, it was a gift to me from my own reasoning with God's help.
I also feel the bible, especially the Old Testament has been hijacked by the wicked one, a kind of identity theft. The New Testament has also been corrupted, I feel as though anything past the four gospels is not anything true Christian need to concern themselves with. I question how a Pharisee who has never married or had children has authority to lay down laws on both subjects. Also when he said Jesus spoke to him on the road to Damascus why was it that no one else heard? How very convenient to say this so you now say you have the authority to hijack the entire movement from the apostles. Jesus said he would send the Holy Spirit to help them and continue teaching, he never said he would send a Pharisee or any other human.
His book got me out in 1995 never read anything but his book first out of curiosity.
This is a great interview!!
Thanks to both of you Brothers Pickets and Penton , for that enlightening discussion on how abusive the WT has been to those that do not completely agree with the societies teachings and demanding unquestionable loyalty and silence when trying to share their concerns about teachings that a lot of times are changed or revised as " NEW LIGHT " later on , but only by some GB member having a revelation from their god , or their DEPLETED bank accounts . I refer to ya'll as brothers because of your continued research and help understanding scripture to those who lack the knowledge or skills to discern the misguiding man made elements that make up a lot of the context that is within the societies publications . If all these publication were so full of nothing but the truth , then why would the society tell its cult members to get rid of a lot of the older Publications . The GB has a lot to answer for , to Jehovah for their pride and arrogance , which is a verse that they should read more often .....Proverbs 16 : 18 - 20 . Thanks again and God Bless Ya'll .
Very good interview Eric and Jim.
Because of this service mandate, one could never feel 'enough' unless putting in 80 + hours per month in 'feild service', risking poverty and shirking other more important responsibilities.
Personally I felt as if in an arranged marriage where the expectation is that you would obey and fulfill all obligations once baptized, regardless of how oppressed this could make you feel at times with the time commitments, the erroneous restrictions (no pants for women, no facial hair for men, no personal thoughts or opinions contrary to the org's., no birthdays, nor any holidays, no 'worldly' friends ...meaning no other association than JW's...). This was overreach by any organization.
The refreshment promised by Christ Jesus was lost amidst the constant admonition from the 'society' ..if not castigation, to be perfect which is contrary to the comportment displayed by our Lord in that he required above all else to have love for one another. This love would be the basis for our salvation not how many hours we put in, while our families struggled, and our consciences were torn in 2 faced with the decision to serve God and somewhat abandon our family or become an outcast... divorced if you will.
Elizabeth
Great interview thank-you !
Herzlichen Dank, meine Herren, für dieses informative und interessante Interview. Eure Arbeit wird auch hier in Übersee beachtet und geschätzt.
Great interview 👍 I follow you in Spanish as well 😀
Thank 😊 🙏 you Eric just watching ...
Thank you brothers😢
Question for Professor Penton: What is your view now of the transition of JW's going much more to "Cart Witnessing" instead of door-to-door and what are your thoughts on Watchtower's move toward Televangelism on their website broadcasting, especially after the clear condemnatory mindset toward televangelism back in the 1980s through the 2000s?
David Wicklin Biggest hypocrites and liars one can imagine,so disgusting.
Hello David, yes for sure there is cart witnessing now , but no less of door-to-door, for cart witnessing one has to qualify to be allowed to cart witness , and the qualification , you guessed it, you need to have high number of service hours in the door-to-door preaching work.
I got disfollowship after I wrote my disassociation letter two months before in October because they saw me doing my job at a day care the children had parade on the unerversity ground so I felt like l wanted to wear my fun colorful mask l made in my art appreciation class the cart holder was on the college ground they told the elders two days later I was disfollowship after I agree to follow up on my letter yes I nicely explain my belief in the Trinty and I found out the real deal about the JW GB . What really got me is how in the world can you have a cart on the college ground but not want members to go to a University really 😒. I thank God for my presentation to those Elders with confidence warmth and knowledge being a sister when The left all they could said is thank you for meeting with us 😊. I feel so much freedom it is wonderful to know the power of the blood of Jesus and the power the Holy Spirit and the true love of the Father. I wouldn't give that truth up to ever be a JW again. being a born in JW God showed me great attention to bring me out and l Love him for the salvation he gave me. Praise the Lord for his everlasting Loving Kindness all should know his how awesome his Power and Wisdom is . He said it is not wise to follow men. I also let them know that there is no need for me to be a JW anyway because I am not going out in the field after what l know l can't help bring people into Babalon The Great l can't do it.
Omg! It's the same story over and over regarding education. Men in positions are punished if they or their children are found to be going to 4 year college. This just happened to our family this year and finally woke me up!
How?
William Imrie Mann was my great grandfather (my grandmother was his daughter, Margaret), and I learned about his connection to the Witnesses only in the last few years. I discovered James Penton's Apocalypse Delayed on the Internet Archive and am looking forward to reading it. I was raised in a Reformed church, and the Witnesses (or JWs, as we called them) were considered a cult. Regardless, I'm interested to learn about the early history of the movement, when WIM would have been involved, and how that affected my family history. I'm finding a line of brilliant and troubled souls descending from WIM, of which I am a part, and I want to understand it better.
I'm a worldly person, but Lloyd Evans (John Cedars channel) pointed out Deuteronomy 18: 20-22 "20 But the prophet who presumes to speak a word in my name that I have not commanded him to speak, or[a] who speaks in the name of other gods, that same prophet shall die.’ 21 And if you say in your heart, ‘How may we know the word that the Lord has not spoken?’- 22 when a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord, if the word does not come to pass or come true, that is a word that the Lord has not spoken; the prophet has spoken it presumptuously. You need not be afraid of him."
Very interesting interview
Thank you
Morris the third came across this video and put a dislike.
That's whiskey Morris the third
Thank you Erick and Jim very very helpful
Great interview with James who always provides sound reasoning, when considering the validity of the Watchtower, you need only to analyse the subliminal images of the Watchtower to see what they are truly about, as for their so called judicial procedures, none of this is scriptual, they have added to the holy writings and as such will in due course recieve the plagues from such , they will be fully exposed long before the end of this old sytstem as nothing more than car salesmen.
Love this interview. Reminds some of us how ridiculously ignorant we had become .Thank you 👌
John Contrary Unfortunately I was raised a Jw. The ARC woke me up and Brother Jacksons lying ass whilst being questioned by the RC. I then read Ray’s book that answered every single querie that thinking Jw’s ever had or have.
Watchtower is just like the movie the Godfather. Using religion as a cover for their real job.
I don't see how intelligent, educated people can still believe the Bible to be any more authoritative than any other well meaning book.
Frank, even though I disagree with you, I appreciate the respectful and calm way that you stated your thought. Otherwise, I'd be reluctant to respond. To me, the Bible is God's trusted communication with us humans. It's my compass in life. I have a BA and was a member of Mensa... too pricey to continue. :) It took me a lifetime to see the fallacy of Watchtower, whereas many with less formal education, and less test-passing ability, spotted the lie "right off the bat". But the Bible is trustworthy. Watchtower has misused it for it's own selfish purposes. Jesus' way of dealing with others, as documented in the Bible, clears up the confusion that Watchtower created. Have you left a religious organization?
@@vintage6346 I believed the Bible because my parents taught me to, but I bogged down trying to read it (that was back then, I have by now read it several times, except maybe Jeremiah which I can't do more than just scan). Then came the idiocy in Vietnam with atheists trying to impose their ideas on Roman Catholics and the latter trying to take over a Buddhist nation, all in the name of the Bible. I find good things in the Bible, but it's like the proverbial state of Texas, with a lot of scrub between the good parts. I also find good things in the Pali texts of Buddhism, the Confucian Ethics, etc., etc. Besides, really now, there is so much in the Bible that contradicts science, is unethical and even hateful. (I especially dislike Timothy) I don't mind having the Bible quoted to me, but I am not more persuaded than if someone quotes Shakespeare.
I remember Dr Penton being mistreated during this time. A family moved from Lethbridge to my hometown. Quite a disruptive period.
Poor dear sisters in commitee meetings.
Worse than catholic confessional as its in a lit backroom face to face w/ three old men.
So wrong.
If you believe in Jesus Christ for what he done for all mankind , you will be saved at Armageddon .
Would love to know if anyone has information on my great aunt Ivy (brown)? was disfellowshiped in the early 90s after many years and believed wrote a book. She would be dead now moved to Canada from England in the war and was not spoken of from about 1992 dispite being a hero in the family and possibly the root to our JW background. She visited us in the 80s and she was a lovely outgoing lady who apparently found herself a toyboy pior to getting out RIP auntie Ivy
Free Bible student's ✌️🤣
I too live close to Lethbridge Alberta, My wife was a JW, she died Dec. 1/ 2018 so I know all about the JW's.
❤❤❤
I'm glad these guys are out of the religion, but it's hard to feel sorry for people who believed such horrible things in the first place. At one time these beliefs were just fine with them. So it's hard to have a lot of respect for them.
Mandy,
Many of us were "born in". It was all we knew. I think that,... just reading people's stories online,... it has been easier for those who were not "born in" to leave Watchtower. But looking at this from a different angle, the two brothers in this video are drawing on their own experiences to help others get free. That's the best that any of us can do. And, btw, having people "feel sorry for them" seems to be the furtherest thing from their mind. I'm amazed at their knowledge of history and scripture, and I respect them.
Brother Wilson, I would love to see you do an interview with Lloyd Evans (john cedars). You both have such a simple calm peaceful approach. However he is now agnostic atheist. I feel like it would be an extremely thought provoking conversation
I actually am not sure that their current belief systems would be the main focus but they each are well spoken and respectful and extremely knowledgeable about the watchtower organization. I am moved and inspired by how passionate they each are when it comes to the tyranny of the wt organization
In my experience lloyd is a skilled interviewer. He puts the focus on the person with whom he is speaking. I enjoyed his interview with jim penton immensely. He is excellent at providing a vehicle for a person to fully explain thoughts and viewpoints. The interviews I have seen were respectful and unbiased. I think avoiding a person or platform because that person holds to a belief system that differs from your own is dangerously similar to the watchtower's approach. I think a discussion between these 2 men would be interesting and thought provoking. But that is just my opinion. I respect that you dont agree and understand your perspective.
Yes I can agree that debate was cringeworthy. I dont share Lloyd's conclusion and beliefs but I dont think it is fair to say he only cares about material things. He speaks a lot of morality and what drives humanity. He just doesn't think that stems from a diety. I am unsure if he would debate with a truly knowledgeable person surrounding the topic of the bible but I would really love to see it. I most certainly have my doubts especially around some things in the scriptures that strike me as immoral. I hope you are wrong and lloyd wouldn't shy away from it. But it sounds like you have a better idea from previous attempts to engage in conversation.
I wish I was in Australia ;-) New York.
I'm half asleep but off the top of my head.... jehovah killing David's child because of his adultery. Hardly seems fair to the child. I know the watchtower's answer and it reeks of bull crap
It is important to me because if the bible depicts God as immoral or unjust then the bible is unreliable because in other verses it clearly states the opposite (that he is loving and fair) so it would be a complete contradiction and untrustworthy.
How does the jw explanation of the two witnesses of rev 11, factor in to the plagues they had been given permission to inflict upon earth ?
Free Bible students is what Christ wants. Free from the pious Pharisees of Jesus day and their traditions and manmade orders.
Je suis français et j'aimerais bien que la vidéo soit sous-titrée en cette langue. Merci 🙏❤😀☮️
Hello Eric, I need help , I may (only) May need blood fir a cancer checking surgery, the reason dosnt matter, I’m an ex j w so it’s not that, I follow Jesus and in the bible there is a passage about blood, it’s life, and partaking if it means you are not going to be part of the resserection, I have to read find the scripture, I googled scriptures on blood ignoring anything to do with j w s so I could get a clean christan perspective, do you have an opinion or a scripture I could look up?, this scripture went
Past the animal blood draining , it went into blood as life, I’m not able to read the bibje like you, as hard as I might and I prayed in tears, anything you could help me with? I’m probably won’t need blood, but as the put me to sleep I will know the possibility is there and it will be a horrible feeling taking that chance, I know the g b changed the rules but, I follow god before men and it didn’t matter if the g b said all blood now, it’s what’s in the bible
Rita McDonald I’m sorry to hear about your surgery. I’ve been trying to find the scripture you talk about that says having a blood transfusion will cut you off from the resurrection. Can you please tell me what scripture you’re referring to so I can see this?
@@alanachamberlain5257 We as JW's were given Acts Chapter 15, verses 20 and 29 regarding "abstaining from blood" as interpreted by WT as being a death penalty at Armageddon. Nathan Knorr & Freddy Franz pulled this out of the sky as it turns out in 1945 and then enforced it as a disfellowshipping offense if a JW got a blood transfusion by 1961.
Acts 15:20, 29 is what the WT society put into both our "No Blood" cards we kept in our wallet along with the "Durable Power of Attorney".
I'm sorry you are going through this. I do not have this scripture you are looking for,however through a bunch of research I have been doing, I do not believe we were mandated not to have a medical procedure,but in eating blood only.One thing I have recently also pondered is. The WT changed to allow so blood blood fractions, I believe in the 80s,but still do not allow white blood cells. If you look at a nursing women with babies and young children,our bodies were made to produce milk. If you look it up,there are billions of white blood cells in a millilitre of breast milk. We feed our children by nursing,so we are actually doing a body to body transfer of white blood cells, therefore when we drink milk from other animals, I would think the same as well. However we have no mandates in regards to feeding milk,and/or drinking milk. I hope all goes well for you.
Alana Chamberlain I looked again and I can come up with Leviticus 17 and I know I spelled wrong, I hope this can help, I’m not sure this is the one but it’s close , thankyou
It is my opinion that our heavenly Father allowed this organization to function to accomplish His will . . . on some levels - perhaps in assisting to identify some false doctrine(s) (i.e. Trinity, hell, immortal soul), and to some degree, even perhaps the msg of the "kingdom" (Luke 4:43), albeit, attached to a plethora of false doctrines attached to it. But it has become more than abundantly clear to me that our Lord is allowing them to be exposed for what they really are, and always have been - - - genuine false prophets, standing as gods to be lauded by men . . . forcing, more than ever, the follower's to take their stand on THEIR side. Doing so is an incredible level of contempt for our Lord Jesus, and our Father Jah!
Welcome to the place where Satan dwells, the DECEPTION is they think they can be saved from being where they are and Jesus gave warning, your name was recorded in the lambs book of Life since before this world was created, nothing can pluck you out of FATHERs hand's except if you choose to believe the lies of the church Jesus said come out of, Angels in hell, college, here under contract of which none know about nor have remembered, seduced by the the spirit of the fake Jesus, the Real Jesus said would come
Yes, and then a prophet is sent to them before Armageddon to "turn back fathers hearts to sons" and vice versa. In other words, he will abolish the cruel and unbiblical disfellowshiping doctrine which seperates fathers from sons and splits whole families apart, otherwise God will destroy EVERYONE (read Malachi 4:5,6). This "Elijah" prophet will also "restore all things" (all Bible truths) (Matt. 17:11).
Who is he? What truths does he know? How will he be given this power? (Rev. 11: 11).
@@ElectricEarth he knows we live where Satan dwells.. and christianity and all the other religions, are about to have plenty repentances to confess
You just nail it and You read it my mind.