Rolling Stock of Sydney: The Red Rattlers (Standard, Tulloch and Sputnik Suburban Stock)
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 ก.พ. 2023
- I tried a new audio and video editing style for this video, so feedback on that aspect is appreciated! Otherwise, I hope you enjoy this deep dive into on of Sydney's most inconic trains.
Thumbail Photo: W. Langford, www.westonlangford.com/images...
Video on the Bradfield trains: • Rolling Stock of Sydne...
Organisations mentioned in the video:
Sydney Electric Train Society: www.sets.org.au/fleet/index.ph...
Historic Electric Traction: het.org.au/car-collection
NSW Railway Museum Thirlmere: www.nswrailmuseum.com.au/
Sources: docs.google.com/document/d/10...
Additional info: docs.google.com/document/d/1b...
I’m 40, and remember the very end of the red rattlers. Dude they were LOUD! But you could open the door any time you liked, which was not safe. I remember little paper tickets that got ripped by the conductor in their hat. Then I remember magnetic stripe tickets and the uniforms changing. I’m old 😊
Mate I'm nearly 30 years older than you(!) and I too remember the open doors particularly on a hot day going to school. Bench seats all sweaty if you sat inside with a carriage full of other punters. And smoking was allowed in those earlier days too. Loud, yes they certainly were, and the smell of the brakes when you came into a station. The non motorised cars used to judder, jolt and bang when taking off from a station and were very un-smooth. A friend was invited into the drivers compartment one day as they nearly missed the train from Parra to Central so a limited stops. Apparently the speedo hit near 80kph. Imagine that with the doors open!
I’m 37 I remember the very tail end. I also remember the two car diesel that went to Richmond.
In 1988 used to take a Red Rattler to school in the morning from Pennant Hills to Wahroonga, and a Tangara on the way home, you couldn't picture two such totally different trains.
I used to love hanging out the doors of the red rattlers on a hot day. 🙂🇦🇺
The contract between the Tangaras and rattlers is something the fascinates me. I can't imagine how sci fi the Tangara would have looked back then.
My grandpa lived at Blakehurst when he was young and went to the Hurlstone agricultural high school, he told me that one time he and his friend were on two different trains traveling the same direction and they opened the doors and shook hands while the trains were moving, however a pole hit their hands while they were doing it and so they didn't try that again, he always reminisced about his time on the red rattlers and it was mostly his story's that got me interested in their history.
I'm 63. Loved the smell, sound and swaying of the red rattlers when i was visiting Sydney in the 60's. Fond memories brought back. Thank you.
This is a fantastic presentation, and for me, a very educational experience. I don't ever remember being cooked on these old girls because the windows and doors were wide open for the majority of the time and I and many other children of the time spent most of the journey hanging out of the doors and windows. The cooking began with the introduction of sliding windows and locked doors, which reduced the airflow dramatically. We knew no better until the introduction of air-conditioning. The double deck cars were a novelty when first introduced, but we did cook in those because of the dreaded sliding windows. The noise in the subway combined with the smell of the brakes is something I will never forget and still long for. Those were the days of adventurous commuting. Thanks for the memories.
The smell you refer to in the subway was from the soot that was caked onto the walls and roof from the old steam engines. 😀
@Ceedeekaytee I don't ever remember steam engines operating in the Sydney underground. The smell I remember was from the brakes and the pantograph. Steam engines were used to weight test the Sydney Harbour Bridge. Electric trains commenced from the opening of the underground but please show me if I am incorrect.
@@aussiejohn5835 It appears you are correct steam was never permitted in the tunnels. When I asked about the smell when I was a kid in the 60's my old man told me it was soot. I just assumed he meant coal soot not brake dust. Thanks for clearing that up.
@@ceedeekaytee1961 no worries 👍 memories can sometimes get jumbled.
Such a long time ago, but I seem to recall the red rattlers had a lot of brass. Door handles, the door steps and window frames and fittings. The windows slid up enough to put one's head through, resulting in some fatalities. The double-decker aluminium windows had a much smaller opening because of the risk of hitting the platforms. The aluminium windows in the rattlers also had restricted openings. They severely restricted ventilation in summer, and a packed train running to St Mary's was like the black hole of Calcutta. Those with power doors would have them forced open. Sims Metal had a recycling plant next to Mascot airport, where many red rattlers were shredded but not before the valuable brass was carefully removed first.
Oh the memories the video has invoked. Travelling by red rattlers to school down the North Shore line 1968-1972 then after that to work in the city (over the bridge).
I have super vague memories of these as a very young kid. I’m sure the lights inside had these funky lantern designs. So much more class and character than the modern stuff. Everything today is just so .. clinical. Things were just better when there was a bit more danger.
They were very classy inside, I remember as a little boy being amazed at the craftmanship and feeling as though as a whole society had lost it's way.
I caught these trains from around 1970 to about 1991. I loved these trains. Awesome. I miss the,. So much character
I remember my dad holding me back when I was a kid because the door was open. Good old Marrickville days 🤙🏽
I started travelling to school on the Bankstown line in Sydney from 1962 on. We school kids would sometimes be running late for our train, so just as the train was pulling out of the station, some of us were tempted to run along the platform and jump into the nearest open foyer of a carriage. Not as easy as you may think, running and jumping with the weight of a heavy suitcase in one hand (no school backpacks in those days), and it was in contravention of platform rules, as we well knew; but I don't know of anyone doing this ever being penalised.
One thing that people did on those pre-double-decker trains with no aircon, which isn't needed now, was deciding where to sit in the carriage based on the airflow. A window seat was the premier choice, because it meant you could control the window, and therefore manage the air temperature. Many's the miserable time I couldn't avoid sitting next to, or just behind, someone who had their window wide open, with their elbow on the sill, and cold air blasting in, all the time the train was in motion, in the dead of winter! You were pretty much forced to ask them to close the window. Most would do so, but grumpily. During scorching hot days going home after work (the worst time of day, because the dark-roofed carriages had been absorbing hot sunlight all day) you prayed to get a window seat, or else stand in a doorway, so you would at least get a breeze. The breeze would be a hot breeze, but it was better than nothing. People standing in the aisles were furthest away from the windows, so that was the worst position to be in. One good thing was that the windows had blinds you could pull down, for blocking the hot sun when it was streaming straight in on you. I often wish our trains of today still had those blinds.
Stories like this make me glad I've only ever experienced trains with climate control. I do think re-adding blinds or smart glass to train windows would be a good idea, specially for intercity trains. There's been many a time where I've been on the train to Newcastle and I've been unable to do my work because the suns glare blocks out my laptops screen.
I grew up in Maitland i used to take the from Maitland to Newcastle. I only have great memories of the train and the noise and the speed of the train. In the sommer monthes you could have the window open only to annoy the person behind you. In winter the heaters either end of the carrage was always more than adequate. I travelled down to Tenterfield were they have one. But very sadly don't run it. An awesome post thank you
They were also like being in an icebox in the worst of winters in the earlier hours.
8:25 Further expansion of electrification in the late 1950s (e.g. Blue Mountains) and to Cowan as part of the Gosford electification put more strain on the existing supply of electric sets. Added to that was the withdrawal of a lot of the wooden trailers when accidents at Berala (1952) and Sydenham (1953) exposed their vulnerabilities in an accident. This saw the return of steam hauled services out of Central to Blacktown under the wires in peak periods, Auburn to Blacktown in peak periods, and even Granville to Fairfield in the p.m. peak! There were not a lot of these steam trains but enough scheduled to relieve the pressure on electric sets. Peak period steam services between Blacktown and Central continued right up to 1969.
I would add that the Auburn-Blacktown service was a 7 car end platform set pulled by a 32 class in school terms, but reverted to a 4 car electric train in school holidays. The timetable didn't change, however, and the 4 minute dwell time at Parramatta for loco watering stayed in place. This made passengers in the electric service to wonder why their train spent 4 minutes at Parramatta station!
I used to watch them disappear into the tunnel as they left an underground station and see the tunnel lights illuminating them.
Sydney's underground sections were like a mini New York subway.
I remember these well on the trip to Sydney and Parramatta from seven hills, and on Saturday mornings, I used to catch steam trains as well, or though they weren't in service every weekend. The only thing I have a problem with is that what you call Cars have always been called Carriages, cars is the name that Americans give their train carriages and it does matter.
I think calling them 'cars' might just be an adaptation taken from the americans in recent years, since most of the train crew I know call them cars, unless I misremember. Or maybe it's just my kiwi coming through, since I think they call them cars.
Either way, I do think trying to use the correct terminology is probably a wise idea in future.
Great video, but the term "red rattler" is a Melbourne expression describing their trains. It has crept into Sydney usage to the extent we now think ours were actually called that, which they weren't.
Thanks!
I'm sorta 50/50 on whether or not it is. I've got lots of comments saying they did call them that at the time, but a lot of people saying it's a retronym. I might have to look into it.
Having travelled on these trains since the early 1950s I have both fond and dreadful memories of them. I remember people standing in open doorways reading their news paper and not holding on to anything. A good lurch of the train could have sent them in to eternity. I also recall hanging out the door as a youngster as we raced a C38 from Strathfield to Central . The one thing I don't recall is the term "Red rattlers" used to describe these trains. I first heard the term in Melbourne in the 60s to describe their red trains as apposed to their Blue and yellow ones. I think the term has been imported from Melbourne by Victorian journalists and rail fans who know no better, unfortunately the term has stuck. I enjoyed your info, Thanks
I also think the term has been imported. I've got no sources from prior to about 1990 that use the term, so I think it might have just been what they were called in their final years. The term is also used quite commonly around the world. My Grandparents use it to refer to 620/720 railcars working the Hunter line, and I know in NYC they use it to refer to their 1950s era cars. So it could have been imported from a lot of places. I might do a video looking into the origin of the term tbh
@@CityConnectionsMedia I am sure you are right. The term was unheard of in Sydney until around 1990 when the Usual Suspects in the tabloid press and their TV equivalents latched on to the term; useful clickbait. Then the transport bureaucrats/cardiganmen also started using the term "red rattler" to boast how they were replacing these sets with "modern dynamic Tangaras". They omitted to mention of course that the Tangaras were coming with fixed seating instead of the reversible seats Sydneysiders so like and were first introduced in the first American end platform cars in 1879. That issue has come up again with the fixed seating being put in the new Intercity fleet.
@@ktipuss You'd think they'd learn the first time, but no. Maybe I should do a video on reversible seating in NSW trains.
Absolutely correct, I'm almost 70 and a railfan as a kid. I can never remember single deck trains in Sydney being called 'red rattlers' at all until maybe into the 1980s. And then it was more to do with opposition politicians using it as a term of abuse for them because they hadn't been all replaced as yet. It was used for as long as I can remember for the old sets in Melbourne. It's an insulting term I resist at any opportunity.
The term red rattlers came in as soon as the new stainless steel double decker stock with automatic doors came into service, and it wasn't in the nineties.
A friend of mine lent out too far in the doorway of a Red rattler one night and a “staunching “ struck him on his side He was very lucky he wasn’t killed 7:05 that night but lost a kidney.
That's rough, your mate was lucky :/
Well done, great information. I loved them, I'd hang out the door especially around city circle trying to see the track ahead. Cheers.
Loving this content.
Looking forward to a V set analysis, as I’m kind of sad that they’re just gonna be scrapped. i’m sure lots of other intercity people feel the same
love your content mate
It's weird all the comment about red rattler being a Melbourne term as I have never heard it here. But I do remember living in Sydney in the 80's and being very envious of the people hanging out the doors of the red rattlers ( a term sydneysiders were using then) as the line I used had the new double deckers.
Boy they were sweat box's so as kids we would stand in the open between carages and catch the breeze, and watch out for ticket snappers😂
great video thank you
I liked the red rattlers and don't recall them being hot. I do recall them being cold however! I moved to brisbane in 1990 and the old un-airconditioned brisbane trains were hot! Thank goodness they got rid of those soon after. One thing I don't remember is the blue-and-white livery but there it is.
You're right - they were never hot inside. I've got no idea why he said that in the video.
The blue and white was introduced by the Askin/Lewis/Willis NSW Liberal Govt {1966 - 1976) when they renamed the NSWGR to the PTC along with buses and ferries. When the Wran Labor Govt was elected they returned to trains to red and called it the SRA.
Thanks for the video, it was great! I remember catching these all of the time and used to enjoy seeing the manufacture date on the plaques (under the door from memory). Do I recall rightly that some cars were 'smoking' and others 'non-smoking'?
Fascinating! Thank you. 🇷🇺
Walsh Island, which was in the middle of two arms of the Hunter River, is now but a memory as it has been swallowed up by *Kooragang Island* together with Dempsey, Ash and Moschetto(pronounced as Mosquito) Islands.
Very good video thanks. I don't think they were ever called red rattlers in their day, at least until right near the end when there were calls for them to be phased out. I agree this is a Melbourne term that has somehow been transplanted.
I don't think so either. I never found the term used prior to about 1990 in my research, so it probably was imported.
@@CityConnectionsMedia We called them Red Rattlers in the 70s.
I've experienced riding in a red rattler on historic tours.
I loved the Red Rattlers, best trains ever and I do miss them. The new Chinese built trains have no soul
Hello, this is my first time to view your program. I used to be a Sydney resident(from late 1980s-early 1990s). Back then, those Red Rattlers were still seen in service. In 1992, I left Sydney and moved up to north. 30 years on, I now live in SE Asia. Could you please tell me when these old time trains went out of service?
FYI it was engineer Roy Leembruggen who designed the first double decker trains in Sydney when most people said it was impossible.
He was a close family friend and mad inventor, sadly he passed away in 2018.
I'll have to look into him a bit. I'm planning on doing a separate video on the first double deckers, that's why I just skimmed over them.
It's a shame he's passed away, I'm sure he'd have some great storeies, but death waits for no man unfortunatley.
I remember them well.. Imagine having open doors nowadays..
I Remember those old trains well.
Best Trains Ever 👍
The wooden cars disappeared after a fatal crash at Berala in which 10 passengers died they were in a wooden car which crumpled when a train from Bankstown ran into a stationary train fro Liverpool stopped at Berala station in the late 1950s….they were only ever trailer cars not power cars and were never leading or rear cars, being protected by motor cars which were much heavier, 35 Tons compared to 50 tons.
As. Youth I worked at ELCAR Chullora, where such wreckage was stored for many years until scrapped. On reflection the place had a store of history which was probably overlooked at the time?
Stavros
Yep suburban trains with leave open doors 😊. In the 90s.... No need to shut them. Super safe right 😁
I used the trains from 1966 until 1978. All I knew where the red rattlers mainly single deck but with double decks becoming more common in the later years. I started my carpentry trade in 1970 mostly working in Sydney CBD and would get so tired I would sleep from Wynyard until West Ryde being woken by the Meadowbank bridge. I liked the old single deck as I could prop my elbow on the window sill and rest my head on my hand. I only missed my stop twice but the walk from Denistone to west Ryde was quite short.
Sounds like you've got some fond memories of those old trains. That's one thing I don't like about the newer trains, you can't rest your elbow on the window sill to sleep. At least we've got AC now I suppose.
I remember the non smoking were one carriage at front and one at the rear. On one trip a lady sitting in front of me was smoking and when I suggested she stop she stood up and roundly abused me at the top of her lungs. She left and people around me said good on you.
Another occasion I embarrassed myself by laughing out loud while readin Henry Lawsons The Loaded Dog. If you haven’t read do so.
Your subways and the regional rail network are one system?
These were famous for wheel spin.
That caused ruts in the rails, especially in stations and signal's facing up hill.
I used to be a track supervisor based at west Ryde.
We used to walk and inspect the track, 3 times a week, could always hear them coming.
I bet the trackworkers would have loved that!
@@CityConnectionsMedia the noise or the wheel spin ? I was track supervisor at West Ryde when they finished the John witton bridge I was there for the opening
@@kevinduffy6712 Honestly, both. Also, that's cool!
@@CityConnectionsMedia I ran team 8 up grading after a 12 month stint as track supervisor .
We did the track realignment for the xpt from Campbelltown to mossvale
That would have been an interesting job!
red rattlers were timbers only thay rattle the other were just single deck
my dad was one of the guards on the fish & chips
and I delivered the traction motor on the tanga trains to Ganions in Newcastle
Was S10 ever considered red rattlers? C3804 sounded like a standard so it would rattle
For my purposes? I guess not. They were red, and had windows that rattled. But the S sets were the same in their early years, and I don't consider them red rattlers.
Those things were super noisy, hot and leaky. They had a particular smell and as the doors didn’t close automatically we kids just hung out in the way home from school. The new ones seem somehow to have less room …
Well, they kinda do. Single deckers were 3.12m wide while doubles were 3.05m wide.
Are you going to do the Usets?
Of course!
I'm gonna try and do something other than NSW stock for the next video, but the U sets will have a video of their own in the very near future.
@@CityConnectionsMedia nice
the red rattler's are good the motors sure did humm well .but reliable
Every time I am in a train now i am grateful it's not a red rattler. Air con is wonderful.
As someone that doesn't have AC at home, I agree.
Bring them back you stand by the open doors and look at the mirror girls 💖💖💖