There are alot of "Dead End" signals in the Hunter Valley that allow access into coal balloon loops. There are a few attached to "fixed red signals" that allow access into coal loop arrival roads. One that I see quite regular is at the Hunter Valley, Newdell, and Liddell loop that shows either a Stop aspects or the "Dead End" aspects to allow access into the Arrival Road. There are also "mainline" dwarf signals that act like mainline signals with the yellow light only being illuminated when the block infront of it being clear not the Shunt type that allows you to enter the block if it's occupied.
I saw those the other day on the driver's route knowledge diagrams, sadly not in time to mention it in the video. They also have fixed reds with just shunt aspects, I spotted one the other day at Clyde. They're pretty unique tbh. I'll have to look into those mainline dwarf signals, I didn't spot them in the official documentation so idk why I would have missed them.
This was very informative a bit fast for me, but overall good info. I can always watch this again. Loving it though, im looking at a career in train driving. Looking forward to the next video. Thank you
Actually the low speed (miniature green) assumes that the section ahead is NOT occupied. It's used to bring trains closer together where the overlap of the next signal is a short distance, hence the reason for the low speed. It's the calling on (miniature yellow) that indicates the the section to which the signal applies may be occupied.
@@CityConnectionsMedia it's a great effort nonetheless mate, considering you haven't had the training. The graphics you used are quite decent to help people understand how it all works. Thumbs up!
nice video, I noted in your animated example your yellow marker lights coming on for the distant, and in signal failures the yellow marker light on the distant will come on.
Some questions I had while watching the video: What are the edges of the blocks, and how do you know if you've passed one? How long is the average block? I'm a bit confused by all the variations with the yellow light. Are all signals based on the status of the upcoming block and the one after that, or do some look further ahead on the line? Does "aspect" refer to a light or a combination of lights? Do all junctions get signals, including ones that are only used in very unusual circumstances?
1. In normal systems, each block is defined by the signals. So if you pass a signal, you've entered a new block. As for their length, it varies depending on the type of traffic on the line and the speed, so I can't really give a number on that. 2. For the most part, yes, they're based on the status of the upcoming block. Really you can break signal aspects into two categories, proceed (which is everything from clear to caution) and stop. A signal will display some sort of proceed aspect if the train can continue into the next block. If a signal is at stop, the preceding signals will still show a proceed aspect, but which aspect is dependant on how far they are from the stop signal 3. For the most part, yes. I used the term lights and aspect farily interchangebly, but in general aspect refers to the signal displayed and the arrangement of lights. e.g. Caution is an aspect, but so is aGreen over Red light. 4. Yes, all junctions on mainlines will have signals. If they're in a freight or stabling yard, then it's only sometimes. Even some manually operated points still have signals e.g. at Richmond. I hope that answers your questions, apologies if it's not super clear or I've failed to address something.
@@CityConnectionsMedia Little bit more information too. A block is the section between two signals. If the signal has changed to stop, that means you've entered that block. A train can be in multiple blocks at once. There is no average size of a block. It is only defined as the section between two signals. There's more complicated signals such as the more restrictive low speed signal which is two reds with a small green underneath. And shunting signals too which are small yellow lights underneath two reds. This allows blocks to be filled block by block mostly in peak areas. Caution is not an aspect. It is an indication. The aspect is the light itself. Caution would be a top aspect of green and a bottom aspect of red. On a single light colour light an aspect is the light. The indication of a caution would be a solid yellow light. All interlocked points have signals. These are called home signals and are always controlled signals. This is because the points must be protected at all times.
Great Vid however there is another signal aspect not mentioned, where I live all signals beyond Werris Creek consist of a single red light and a flashing white or clear light.
I do know about those, but for some reason I just never thought to include them. They're called 'proceed into dark territory signals' and allow trains onto lines that don't have signalling.
@@CityConnectionsMedia A driver told me that they need extra paper work to proceed There is signaling on these lines which are two aspect (red and flashing white
Hi Greg, the "signals" that you refer to are train order mainline indicators. Their purpose is to protect infrastructure like points, level crossings, and yard limits.
Sorry, my OCD kicked in. 17:11 The train is entering the platform (1) but the light is RED. Slight goof? Just asking. Oh! Those RED signals are if the train is going the other way?
Question for you - if you don't mind: Strathfield. Platform 3. Signal at the end of the platform Green/Yellow. Signal just west of the platform Green/Yellow. How does that work? Is it the one at the end of the platform a.... No it can't be, as other times it seems to work as per what you explained.
When talking flashing lights the word should be pulsating, the difference being in NSW the light doesn't go out hence pulsating where flashing means the light actually goes out
I made the example, and the GIF on the wikipedia page about the "multiple trains being allowed into a single platform" that they use to do in Town Hall and Wynyard. It's a pretty bad animation but I do know now that the train stops should all start in the "up" position from the time that the front on the previous train passed them, as they do at any normal signal (at least I think they should I have no video evidence for any of this). In the GIF I have them only go up once the rear of the train passes, which is how it works in New York but I'm fairly certain there is no reason to think that the ones in Sydney worked like that. It seems that you did the same thing. I suck at animation so if you wanted to turn yours into a gif and replace the one on the wiki page that would be good. Also, from anecdotes it seems that the amount the trains "overlapped" the platform was only so much that the train would be about 100-120 metres apart, about the last car of the previous train leaving the platform as the first car of the second is in the platform. I assume they could get closer than this if the first train stopped, but the detail are sketchy and come from an old signaller from the 50s.
I actually based mine on the one in wikipedia! I might have to track down some footage or old documents, because right now a lot of the knowledge about this system seem to be not solidly sourced :/ I'd be tempted to put my animation on wikipedia, I just don't have the time to 'pretty it up' so to speak. I also think you're pretty spot on with your assumptions, but it'll still be worthwhile to track down a proper source. I might do a video exploring this system in future once I get some proper sources.
@@CityConnectionsMedia Yeah finding sources is really hard. I've tried to go searching, looking at the old signalling guidebook and stuff. I've only heard from witnesses about it, and apparently at the powerhouse museum there is a timetable for St James station or something from the 50s that has 36 trains scheduled in the hour for one platform. I can't even get solid information on where the train stops are located, because the system was "removed" some time in the early 90s, and there are few videos from the front of train from that era, but it doesn't look like there are any train stop along the platform. It seems like they were removed in the early 90s and some time between then and now they were added back to be as they are now.
Mate,
You're a bloody legend. I'm currently doing the Sydney Trains Trainee Driver program and this vid has helped me make sense of a few signals.
That's good to hear!
The video might not be 100% accurate, but I did my best to represent what's in the official rulebooks.
I’m trainee signaller! So hard
@@jesse8737 as a trainee driver myself, hats off to you mate. Wonder if ive rung you up before lol...
@@jbtdvsets haha I just became AC3 qualified Saturday. Most stressful thing I’ve ever done. I’m not looking forward to work haha
Awesome video, cool illustrations and pretty good explanations.
Thanks!
Thank you, that is a lot to learn. I now view train drivers in a completely different light. 👍👍👍⭐️⭐️⭐️
There are alot of "Dead End" signals in the Hunter Valley that allow access into coal balloon loops. There are a few attached to "fixed red signals" that allow access into coal loop arrival roads. One that I see quite regular is at the Hunter Valley, Newdell, and Liddell loop that shows either a Stop aspects or the "Dead End" aspects to allow access into the Arrival Road. There are also "mainline" dwarf signals that act like mainline signals with the yellow light only being illuminated when the block infront of it being clear not the Shunt type that allows you to enter the block if it's occupied.
I saw those the other day on the driver's route knowledge diagrams, sadly not in time to mention it in the video. They also have fixed reds with just shunt aspects, I spotted one the other day at Clyde. They're pretty unique tbh.
I'll have to look into those mainline dwarf signals, I didn't spot them in the official documentation so idk why I would have missed them.
This was very informative a bit fast for me, but overall good info. I can always watch this again. Loving it though, im looking at a career in train driving. Looking forward to the next video. Thank you
Actually the low speed (miniature green) assumes that the section ahead is NOT occupied. It's used to bring trains closer together where the overlap of the next signal is a short distance, hence the reason for the low speed.
It's the calling on (miniature yellow) that indicates the the section to which the signal applies may be occupied.
Bugger, at least I'll know when I remake this video eventually
@@CityConnectionsMedia it's a great effort nonetheless mate, considering you haven't had the training. The graphics you used are quite decent to help people understand how it all works. Thumbs up!
@@HeathGallagher-xc1bh close ups are still widely used actually. Examples can still be seen in the Hunter and Broadmeadow areas
Looking forward to your next video.
Going all out with the pixel art for this video.
Its all I know how to draw :(
nice video, I noted in your animated example your yellow marker lights coming on for the distant, and in signal failures the yellow marker light on the distant will come on.
That's one small detail I only caught last minute. Although irl some are still red on distant signals, but in the documentation they're yellow.
Some questions I had while watching the video:
What are the edges of the blocks, and how do you know if you've passed one? How long is the average block?
I'm a bit confused by all the variations with the yellow light. Are all signals based on the status of the upcoming block and the one after that, or do some look further ahead on the line?
Does "aspect" refer to a light or a combination of lights?
Do all junctions get signals, including ones that are only used in very unusual circumstances?
1. In normal systems, each block is defined by the signals. So if you pass a signal, you've entered a new block. As for their length, it varies depending on the type of traffic on the line and the speed, so I can't really give a number on that.
2. For the most part, yes, they're based on the status of the upcoming block. Really you can break signal aspects into two categories, proceed (which is everything from clear to caution) and stop. A signal will display some sort of proceed aspect if the train can continue into the next block. If a signal is at stop, the preceding signals will still show a proceed aspect, but which aspect is dependant on how far they are from the stop signal
3. For the most part, yes. I used the term lights and aspect farily interchangebly, but in general aspect refers to the signal displayed and the arrangement of lights. e.g. Caution is an aspect, but so is aGreen over Red light.
4. Yes, all junctions on mainlines will have signals. If they're in a freight or stabling yard, then it's only sometimes. Even some manually operated points still have signals e.g. at Richmond.
I hope that answers your questions, apologies if it's not super clear or I've failed to address something.
@@CityConnectionsMedia Little bit more information too.
A block is the section between two signals. If the signal has changed to stop, that means you've entered that block. A train can be in multiple blocks at once. There is no average size of a block. It is only defined as the section between two signals.
There's more complicated signals such as the more restrictive low speed signal which is two reds with a small green underneath. And shunting signals too which are small yellow lights underneath two reds. This allows blocks to be filled block by block mostly in peak areas.
Caution is not an aspect. It is an indication. The aspect is the light itself. Caution would be a top aspect of green and a bottom aspect of red. On a single light colour light an aspect is the light. The indication of a caution would be a solid yellow light.
All interlocked points have signals. These are called home signals and are always controlled signals. This is because the points must be protected at all times.
Great Vid however there is another signal aspect not mentioned, where I live all signals beyond Werris Creek consist of a single red light and a flashing white or clear light.
I do know about those, but for some reason I just never thought to include them.
They're called 'proceed into dark territory signals' and allow trains onto lines that don't have signalling.
@@CityConnectionsMedia A driver told me that they need extra paper work to proceed There is signaling on these lines which are two aspect (red and flashing white
@@hamwank ill have to look into that further, it sounds like it might be interesting
Hi Greg, the "signals" that you refer to are train order mainline indicators. Their purpose is to protect infrastructure like points, level crossings, and yard limits.
Sorry, my OCD kicked in. 17:11 The train is entering the platform (1) but the light is RED. Slight goof?
Just asking.
Oh! Those RED signals are if the train is going the other way?
Question for you - if you don't mind: Strathfield. Platform 3. Signal at the end of the platform Green/Yellow. Signal just west of the platform Green/Yellow.
How does that work?
Is it the one at the end of the platform a.... No it can't be, as other times it seems to work as per what you explained.
When talking flashing lights the word should be pulsating, the difference being in NSW the light doesn't go out hence pulsating where flashing means the light actually goes out
Not to bad but a lot of mistakes.
oh? I do want this video to be accurate so if I've made mistakes I'd love to know.
I made the example, and the GIF on the wikipedia page about the "multiple trains being allowed into a single platform" that they use to do in Town Hall and Wynyard. It's a pretty bad animation but I do know now that the train stops should all start in the "up" position from the time that the front on the previous train passed them, as they do at any normal signal (at least I think they should I have no video evidence for any of this). In the GIF I have them only go up once the rear of the train passes, which is how it works in New York but I'm fairly certain there is no reason to think that the ones in Sydney worked like that. It seems that you did the same thing.
I suck at animation so if you wanted to turn yours into a gif and replace the one on the wiki page that would be good. Also, from anecdotes it seems that the amount the trains "overlapped" the platform was only so much that the train would be about 100-120 metres apart, about the last car of the previous train leaving the platform as the first car of the second is in the platform. I assume they could get closer than this if the first train stopped, but the detail are sketchy and come from an old signaller from the 50s.
I actually based mine on the one in wikipedia! I might have to track down some footage or old documents, because right now a lot of the knowledge about this system seem to be not solidly sourced :/
I'd be tempted to put my animation on wikipedia, I just don't have the time to 'pretty it up' so to speak.
I also think you're pretty spot on with your assumptions, but it'll still be worthwhile to track down a proper source. I might do a video exploring this system in future once I get some proper sources.
@@CityConnectionsMedia Yeah finding sources is really hard. I've tried to go searching, looking at the old signalling guidebook and stuff. I've only heard from witnesses about it, and apparently at the powerhouse museum there is a timetable for St James station or something from the 50s that has 36 trains scheduled in the hour for one platform.
I can't even get solid information on where the train stops are located, because the system was "removed" some time in the early 90s, and there are few videos from the front of train from that era, but it doesn't look like there are any train stop along the platform. It seems like they were removed in the early 90s and some time between then and now they were added back to be as they are now.
I'll have to try and track down an old signalling book I think.
Also, I think you're spot on, but I'm not sure, more research is needed