I loved this. Just two chill dudes talking about a game. respectfully and reasonably debating each other with a critical lens and having fun along the way. All debates should be like this
Damn I came here fully expecting to disagree with Mayo and hate everything he said based on his part one video. But man, dude articulated himself well and made some great points. Thank you guys for making this video happen
Honestly I agreed with mayo on everything minus Atreus I wanted to love the new god of war it looked awesome but ended up a little disappointed but I do think the combat is fun
How could you disagree with mayo? Sure i absolutly love gow2018 but compared to the old ones the 2018 is a brainless gameplay movie. 2018 lives by his perfect athmosphere and setting.
Mayo’s interest in design comes from his history in fighting/arcade games. Arcade games are “short” but have really complex in-depth interactive systems which multiply your score, give damage bonuses, or even give you an upper hand in a fighting game. The downside of RPG elements is it allows players to brute force their way through bosses without learning patterns or mastering combat systems. Even the souls genre has this issue. Simply put, Mayo is upset that the new GOW replaces arcade mechanics with RPG ones. Great discussion.
I want to apologize to Mayo too. Now understanding the first video was not made in the same time frame, explaining some tone shifts. You brought some very good points and flaws in the vid, that I do agreed with. Certain things and mechanics should change how the previously were, like climbing. Everyone did kind of over reacted, we should definitely respect everyones opinion. Nice to know you do respect and get why people love the game, and always nice to know you like the game too. I watched part 2, and it's a good watch, to give more context :)
I really didn’t like his review. Cuz it *felt* like he never gave the game a chance, now I know he does btw, and he talked really condescending which annoyed me a bit. But now I have found way more respect for him because that’s not here anymore and it’s way nicer to listen to and watch
At about 17:50 I have to agree with mayo extremely. The enemies are so spread out with a camera that can only see in front and half of them enemies are behind, forces you to move into a position in which all enemies are in front a.e keeping a wall to your back. When you get to close your camera zooms in and there in lies your problem!
This is something the Arkham games did well imo, while most of the time the camera is over the shoulder same as in God of War, during combat the camera zooms out so that you can see what most if not all of your enemies are doing.
@@Blue-Apple-fc9eo literally every enemy? If a enemy attacks with a melee attack it shines red, if it's a ranged attack it shines purple, not to mention Atreus shouts when an enemy Is attacking behind you so you have like multiple ways to dodge
@@redninja3056 this is true. I play in immersive so I have my complete hud and indicators off for a harder/better experience. Even then Atreus and mimir definitely let you know when someone’s behind you or about to attack but I just get left with him constantly screaming “BEHIND YOU” lol. Not terrible but could be better
@@redninja3056 but they can improve it. I have an idea where the camera is over the shoulder but the camera can be manually fixed a little far away according to the player's comfort zone and they can add a lock on. In this way people like mayo and the people who like an immersive camera angle both can be satisfied.
I loved that you brought up ghost of sparta, during that whole conversation about the shift in krato’s personality and how it isn’t explained, all i was thinking about was ghost of sparta’s story
@@KaptainKuba seriously man your ability to come up with compelling discussions on games is great. Dont limit your discussions to god of war (as much as i love the franchise) your discussions would do great with the general gaming industry. Especially with the high profile guests you have had. Arguments like this need to be seen by the developers. From one Canadian to another keep up the great work
This was great. I only recently starting watching your videos and you both handled this talk very well. Like under the mayo said at the end, this was handled very objectively without getting at each other at a personal level, and it speaks to both of their characters. I would gladly watch another one of these with Mayo!
I think Mayo himself has also got a lesson from the feedbacks of this talk that: if you want your audience to hear out and understand what you're saying and if you want your words to have a useful/constructive impact on people, avoid talking in a way like you're shiting on the subject. JUST BE A CALM AND REASONABLE PERSON and people will listen to you.
*as for Mayo's critique of not being able to see enemies behind you.. That's the point you're supposed stay on guard & constantly moving if you stand still you'll die*
that's is not the only issue the issue he's pointing out is having less option for combat mechanics juggling the enemy on air with 3-4 attack indicators the only option is to dodge
He also for some reason complains about Atreus yelling "Behind you!" (Mimir does that as well) which is really odd. Bcs when im too invested on attacking, I forget about the indicators therefore from them yelling "behind me", snaps me out of it and I dogde.
@@Mikkeru dude if you repeatedly play the game but for me who always want to master the combat system in the highest difficulties it's start to get annoying in the 5-6 hours none stop yelling
I disagree with Mayo on this camera critique. I played the whole game without indicators/a hud on GMGOW, and relied on Atreus/Mimir. It helps so much with immersion and you have to be strategic about how you approach your enemies. Idk just my 2 cents.
I absolutely agree with the RPG system. After putting on a set of fully upgraded Valkyrie armor and all the best enchantments in the game and on God of War difficulty, Sigrun became a joke. She went from kicking my ass for hours to me defeating her first try. This is why the Zeus set is my favorite armor in the game. It makes it so that enemies don't take forever to kill, but also has you take a lot more damage and almost everything kills you in one hit on God of War difficulty.
yes but once you are able to beat her you already know what to do. the armor may have helped but it is also down to your skill. but yeah I never really sweated for the best armor. just used the stuff that I found along the story. hardest valkery was the one in the small room. she kicked my ass over and over for like 14hrs split in 2 days. I never really abused the magic stuff since mine were shit so I had to be smart about my timing and where I was dodging and such. only reason I wanted to kill sigrun was for that axe thing that made my axe fly really fast and really far without stopping. it was fun to through around. sigrun was fun to fight cause I had the knowledge of all the other valkerys moves to use for her patterns. was a cool combat kinda reward to incorporate. she still put me in the dirt for hours tho.
Well what you described is a typical RPG sspect like yes if you are willing to sacrifice that much time to grind or not grind but farm materials to level up your armor to max stats and litteraly destroy that bitch Sigrun is that level satisfaction at least for me
I agree with mayo's incentives argument. I wanna be rewarded for playing smart and having skill and all that that just makes the combat feel so much more rewarding and satisfying knowing that your getting better at the game and the game will reward u for your efforts
This is mayos strongest argument by far. Doesnt mean that the combat in 2018 is 10% as bad as mayo said, but I like being rewarded for playing smart/well outside of cool factor/fun
You disagree with everything but you pointed out zero reasons why , sounds absurd to me , that's usually the ,, fanboy ,, mindset , oh I disagree but I can't explain a single reason why .
@@nik774 No I'm not if you disagree give an example of why otherwise it sounds empty , I am not a fanboy of either but as a person who values logic and reason if all you do is say nothing but complain then you have no argument and people will not take you seriously at all .
@@saula8948 He should give examples only if he was presenting his disagreement as a factual statement or he's willing to participate in a debate with which he obviously didn't do instead he presented it as a personal opinion that shouldn't be taken seriously. If I say "I despise All MCU movies" I don't need to give examples why I despise it unless I'm saying all MCU movies are objectively trash.
I am wondering how they show Ragnarok like kratos and Atreus fighting. In background giants marching and surtr,fenrir everyone fighting with GOW 2018 camera angle. If it was fixed like old it provide a cinematic experience like God of war 3
Great seeing you guys just talk and chill and I feel like you really understand each other more now even if you still disagree which is fine. I haven't finished the video, but I wanted to write this because I'm currently at this part: You guys say that MGS5 has no punishment for not using stealth but it kinda does. Your "punishment" is having to deal with all of the enemies coming at you and them calling in backup like choppers and stuff. It's a lot easier to get stuff done when you're not being hunted. Also the game has a sort of adaptive difficulty mechanic where if you use certain tactics too often the game will adapt. So say if you headshot alot of enemies with a sniper rifle all the time, then more enemies will start wearing helmets. So if you go in guns blazing a lot you'll see more enemies in body armor. If you sneak around a lot you'll see mines and claymores and stuff in certain areas. You might see more searchlights and cameras around. The incentive to play stealth is there, but it also attempts to punish you a bit for playing stealth. You can also send squads on side missions in the background to sort of get around this. So for example you could send a squad to intercept a shipment of helmets. Which would prevent them from adapting to your headshotting, but maybe by doing so you had to trade out a different mission with its own benefit. Sure it could be better, but I feel like MGS5 was really not a good example to support your point.
Damn I loved this how u guys dissected the game from head to toe. I wasnt really thinking about this stuff until I found ur channel and Mayos points are really good. Now im just thinking how much are Santa Monica really gonna change for Ragnarok. Im a little worried not much is gonna change but im hoping and praying they have been given the freedom to innovate and improve the systems and fill in the missteps of GOW 2018
I think it would be nice if as soon as enemies show up, the camera zooms out a little, then they would keep the “emotional” side of the game and have combat smoother.
As I thought and pointed out in my comment to your reaction video, Mayo stayed humble. plus, he addressed his critic video. However, kudos to you as well for going to a friendly approach and not sparking a channel war.
Yeah, He said that he didn't expect many people to see his video in the first place and that the whole thing was just expressing himself only in the form of a TH-cam video, that's why he didn't express it better with his criticism video.
I appreciate that you two can sit and talk about this like adults, we need more gamers and tubers like this. But I will say, him going up against the wall and the camera going to shit really seemed like he was fishing for a shit camera angle. I've beat the game maybe 3 times, one of them a platinum and not once did I come across that angle problem.
I love player-controlled cameras. Having a spatial map in your mind of an environment, enemy positions and then executing camera movement to monitor the environment during combat is something I just enjoy. I never once had a fleeting thought about the camera “issues” in God of War because it didn’t bother me that I couldn’t see enemies behind me because I found it fun to adapt my play style to it. That’s just me.
What mayo said about sekiro is wrong, you can attack in a direction the camera is not facing if you are not locked on. You can even change the direction mid attack with the left stick. It would be great if we could do it in God of War tho.
@@underthemayo Nah all of them let you attack in a direction with the left stick independent from the camera position, as long as you're not locked on. Ds2 doesn't let you change direction mid attack though. God of War definetly doesn't let you and would be great if they changed it. It would make getting surrounded not so bad. PS. Big fan btw Mayo, glad you responded.
@@metallicawiz33 Thanks. I guess what I'm more referring to is the one v one fights. Bosses, big guys. It's very "attack directly in front of you". GOW 2018's combat feels like that.
@@underthemayo Yeah and its like that the whole game. I would like the camera to be pulled back abit or just give us an fov slider, and also make Kratos's movement independent from the camera while not locked on making easier to change targets mid combat. That would make unlocked combat useful is some situations while still having the 1v1 duel feel other times. I think most of your ideas for improvemts are great and hope alot make it in.
Resource System for GoW Ragnarok Proposal: Brutal Kills give Rage, Using Rage procedrually fills Health when active and attacking. The Harder the Combo in not Rage the more rage-o-meter you get and the harder the attack combo in Rage the more Health you get. You gain Magic through filling your Rage bar past its Limit for your Heavy Runic Attacks, while the Light ones become button combos that you have to get through mini Challenges like upgrades in Doom. Atreus has a no magic mode where he shoots normal arrwos and arrows that use Magic when empowered cost Magic-o-meter.
Interesting Podcast, I enjoyed it. Thank you guys. Now about that Camera, you can have it over the shoulder but when a fight area starts you can move it back a bit to make you see the room better kinda like DMC5 camera, but do not move it back that far because that camera serves the DMC5 combat but it does not serve GOW 2018 to move it that far.
DMC 5 Proves that it still can be done today like with the camera. Sure you can still move it but the camera pans out whenever there's a combat encounters with multiple enemies and bosses.
Played gow 1,2 and 2018, sadly i haven't played gow 3 yet but i enjoyed 2018 combat system the most, theres plenty combos u can do if you actually experience with it and im not talkin about braking game combos
Can you play them on ps4? Via PSNow or some? And do they have a lot of nudity? And if yes, can you turn it off. I know 3 has Persephone and there’s a bathhouse in the beginning of 2 but I’d there any in Ascension or something?
Something that would fix the camera is this little feature that Roblox of all games has. But games like Skyrim use it too. In Roblox it’s called shift lock, basically in third person you camera moves with the character so you don’t also need to move the camera. In Skyrim when you are in third person you don’t need to move the camera it just turns with your charcter. That system has its ups and downs but the way Roblox does it is that you can toggle it on and off. If they just dedicated a button to toggle on and off shift lock then it wouldn’t be a problem. I’m using the term shift lock knowing it doesn’t make sense bc on pc for Roblox the button you use to toggle this is shift but they could just call it action/combat camera or something.
In regards to the fixed camera vs player controlled camera, I just replayed God of War 3 and it frustrated the hell out of me that I couldn't target a specific enemy, when trying to grapple you couldn't really grab a specific one, just whichever one the game decided
@@daryllfavortio6944 it's not that simple, the main problem I had was when there were the flying enemies and a gorgon or minotaur. No matter what I did I would grapple the bigger enemy 99% of the time, even if I was facing away
@@collinowen5758 this is more advance mechanic in the GOW prequel is the ( enemies placement ) you need to use in the higher difficulties utilizing your movement when your enemies follows you weather it's a flying or ground enemy is a mechanic specially in the challenge if you back padle to much the enemies will bundle
When i was playing i didnt use magic much until later playthroughs because i came from games like resident evil where you have finite resources, and then the old rpg habit from final fantasy of hoarding your potions and ethers for when you really need it
Lol it looks like more than half of this comment section didn't even watch the podcast and is once again repeating all the misunderstandings people have about both Mayo's and Kuba's takes on God of War 2018, it's hillarious to see.
I know a lot of people have do not like that you can’t jump in God of war Ragnarok but the thing is if they add jumping the need to add double jumping and they would need to Make new animations for air combat and runic and would have to create some thing so it would make sense to why Kratos is able to stay in the air while fighting and being able to double jump I would love it if they added double jumping but it would be very tedious to do it
If they add something story related to For making Kratos be able to double jump and doing stuff that would not make sense in the lore I am all for it cool idea that you can rip out the heart of enemies to gain health tell Santa Monica Studio to do that
They are going with a more realistic approach to it now unlike the other God of war games like in the lore it would no make no sense why Kratos would be able to jump on the air I guess God of war three gave a reason why because they added the wings so if they want to add double jumping they would have to think of something a reason why Kratos is able to do this
They could do a last second Change and add a double jump and reveal that Kratos had the wings all along but just didn’t use them so it is completely possibly
Hey @kaptain kuba and @Under The Mayo , thanks for video. I watched KK's reaction to UTM's video and I got to be honest didn't like UTM that much. I have a whole new respect for you now Under The Mayo! I see ya and I actually agree with some of your points now that I have more context. Thank you guys for this! it was needed.
Came here for Mayo. Advice for Kuba the interviewer : let the person finish talking, research more, articulate and give examples, and remove your emotions from games as it will only get in the way of researching games better
Kuba, I love you man, and love your videos, I feel like you really understand the core heart of God of war. Please next time, don't let these guys who come to criticise God of war, intellectually bully you, cause I felt like that really happened in this video and I got kinda pissed at times. Maybe just the way I saw it. Really enjoy your videos and will continue to support you mate. "Go forth, in the name, of Ragnarok".
I’d say that you should leave the collecting armors but make it mean more. Maybe we find an enemy with the armor on and we kill them and rip it off their body. Maybe it’s a piece we are putting together for Brok and Sindri again. Don’t give them boring buffs either and no rarities. I hate having green armor or blue armor and weak things when I’m end game or too many in the way.
Kratos was not one dimensional in god of war 2. The whole reason he was angry in the beginning was because, they didn’t take the nightmares away, they wouldn’t let him kill himself, and they tricked him into killing his own mother much like ares did, and they stole his brother away and chained him up who died while fighting Thanatos so ofc he was angry. Then on top of that Zeus kills kratos and his whole army, and then later his entire city. Did everyone forget about the last spartan and the kraken scene? Not to mention Kratos didn’t yell at people and had no intention of killing anybody until they decided they wanted to kill him or stop him from his mission. He had no problem letting Theseus, Perseus, or the sisters of fate, live. But it was them who decided to attack him. It wasn’t till god of war 3 where he became deranged and it made sense in that game. But even in that game he wasn’t one dimensional, he was just at the breaking point and didn’t learn to forgive himself until the end of the game while fighting Zeus.
This really cleared up a lot of things. When I first saw his review I was just so confused on how someone could hate the game that much but I understand where’s he’s coming from even tho I don’t agree with much of what he said. But when he clarified most of his criticism were nitpicks that don’t ruin the game but it just needs be improved then I saw him different and appreciated his review. Well at least part 2 of the review the first one was just kinda of a rant to me since I didn’t agree with what he was saying. Edit: Kaptain Kuba the goat for hearting my comment. Also I edited my comment cause my grammar was horrible since I wrote it really fast 😂 Second Edit: Bruh it took away the heart cause I edited my comment 🤦♂️ p a i n
34:46 One real quick thing about metal gear v, (assuming that’s phantom pain), one of the things going stealth vs going in guns blazing rewarded you with was better base personnel. If you’re stealthier it’d much easier to ~~kidnap~~ recruit talented people, which levels up your base much faster. I sort of dislikes that myself since it felt like, to me, it disincentivized actual up front combat, but MGSV Phantom Pain was my first MGS so…I’m not a good judge haha.
I was going to make the same point but come to think about it, the game actually rewards "non-lethal" instead of stealth. You can technically go guns blazing and still get the personnel as long as you use stun/sleep guns. But anyways the game does punish you for not doing stealth in the early game since you don't (yet) have the health pool, superhuman mobility, superior firepower or any form of quick health regen to play the shooter game. You wanna try dancing with Quiet early game instead of playing hide and seek? You'll get two shot or one shot. But that changes as you progress. The game gives you heavy armor later for occasions where you need to go gun blazing. Such as the save Quiet mission where you need to kill hords of enemy tanks and armored vehicles. The final boss "Sahelanthropus" is also a shooter boss that needs nothing less than an arsenal filled with heavy weapons like rocket launcher and grenade launcher to take down. You can not "stealth" these and you don't get punished for gunning.
@@physxme Those two boss fights are the exceptions however. And while you can go guns blazing with the rubber bullet rifles or tranquilizer guns, you can’t really do that guns blazing because they wake up a lot easier, so you’re sort of still punished for it imo.
The way to fix the armor issue if they want you to be able to change/upgrade armor why don’t they just have you have one of 2 armors that you can upgrade throughout your playthrough maybe one based on strength and one based on defense depending on your play style
I believe that yes it needs to be fixed. But not in the way most people think. Just a couple more weapons. And making weapon specific enemies. Like how in the early part of 2018 your axe doesn’t work against the ice guys. Later on if you power up enough it does, and that should be fixed. And for the runic spells, having 2 on a trigger cool down to be used whenever, keep it as is. Just add all the others as special combo finishers. The cueing system. Watch Joseph Anderson’s video on it. That is a very game breaking issue especially with revenants. And finally…make enchantments more generalized, upgradable and maybe even combinable like how new game plus does with the burn, poison and frost resistance enchants. Aside from that it’s great. I wouldn’t even mind having to relearn the tech tree entirely again, like a reset like they do in every game.
Great vid! I think alot of people misunderstood Mayo intentionally. Selling points is necessary for his point to get across about his opinion, if he used less provocative clips to showcase the problems, people would go "Well thats not that bad.", when its obvious that he means it by when its at its worst, wich is the whole point about critizing it.
My main gripe about this game was the climbing mechanics, and the crawling through narrow spaces constantly just for the game to load before you made it to the new area too fast
what bothers me about the narrative of gow 2018 is that Kratos seems to be doing everything because he has to, but he doesn't want to be there or doesn't care
My issue is that Kratos seems to regress in the lessons he learned or already was in the Greek saga. Like Kratos was already a father and a husband who was really loving and enthusiastic about them, like how he made a flute for his daughter Calliope and found peace with Lysrandra who was one of the few women to stand up to him. Kratos had already learned about the destructive nature of vengeance in the conclusion of GOW3 and to have the power to forgive himself and move on from his tragedy.
I was just now thinking more about gow2018 and the thing that pisses me off is the armor, like for example i love the og armor kratos is wearing in the begining of the game in gow2018 but the game forces me to put on a higher level armor. They could fix this like spiderman 2018 remember the level system in spiderman ps4? You can just make the leveling system into gaining skills and not into gaining them in armor peices and also not giving the enimies any leveling system and you are the only one with the leveling system and you wont be too op because the only thing giving you streangth is the skills you buy with the leveling and not because of your level also i really want the runes to be gone the cooldown is too fast and it takes the challenge away.
I just think Mayo shot himself in the foot when putting God of War 4 on such a high / specific expectation. I have done that myself with movies, shows and such. And you can almost never come back from that & you just remain salty through the whole thing. Like in his review, he intentionally made God of War 4 combat system sound so boring bcs he cant get over the fact that it changed so much. And before even playing the game, he hated Atreus therefore held to that through out the whole game.
I know right he just couldn’t let go of the old game and constantly compared them to one another while playing which made him care less and less every minute.
@@rickyrackey7930 He does indeed nitpick way to much. Like about stuff that most people won't care about but i have watched his videos about God of war twice and finished GOW 4 three times as well as the old games and i have to say that i do agree with alot of the points he had. It feels like they wanted to focus on giving us a story with cliche rpg gameplay on the side. While the older games focused on both but slightly on gameplay more than the story. It wasn't perfect by any means but the older games did have a deeper combat mechanics imo.
I hope SantaMonica see this podofcast because there is a looooooot of points that im agree with. Man, the camera issue is huge point to fix, because me too i have a big issue with it. Beside that, the analysis of the kratos caracter is deep. As the Mayor said, they should put something that motive kratos because he is not interesting of all of that. Thanks a lot both of you.
I feel that some of the problems with combat are mitigated when playing GMGOW on NG+. You will need to think out your runics and switch weapons to defeat the valkyries. Nevertheless someone who is not impressed enough with the combat during the main story will most likely never get to that point in the game.
You should check out the last half hour or so of Joseph Anderson's video. It highlights how GMGOW actually exposes how inconsistent/numbers-driven the games combat is.
I have an issue that everyone seems to only point towards the Valkyries as the point of actual challenge. A piece of OPTIONAL content in a 30-hour game that is predominantly about combat that actually requires skill is not good game design.
I think a good compromise in camera presentation can be sought in something like Devil May Cry 5. It's camera is zoomed out a bit more than GOW 2018. Not only that, but old school GOW and DMC both have fixed camera angles in common so it also shows that games defined by their fixed cameras can do well---if not better---if that aspect is taken out while still retaining the somewhat zoomed out look (RE2 is another example). DMC 5 is like a nice in-between.
The great thing about Capcom games is that enemies will not attack you when they are fully off the camera. They will move into the camera view first before attacking.
Here's my take on the whole grounded idea. This is a game series about Gods and Monsters and centaurs and whatever there's nothing grounded about any of that. This is a game where you haven't asked that can freeze people on contact that you can throw miles away and call to your hand just by opening up your palm. Kratos juggling someone in the air for 15 seconds is not the craziest thing that he would be doing in God of War 4 let alone Ragnarok or any of these other games.
His comparison of ghost of Tsushima and sekiro was really dumb. The only difference is that in got the camera is more zoomed out. In sekiro you can still attack to your right by using the left stick gow 2018 is totally different because there you have to move your camera to change where you attack.
The only thing i don't like about GOW 2018 is that a lot of the people who played the game haven't even touched the originals and then go rambling about how gow 2018 is the holy grail of gaming, they get GOW 2018 related tatoos and everything, before knowing where you're headed you gotta know where you come from, i can assure you 85 percent of the momentum the game has earned prior to release was due to the succes of the originals but now these so called fans insult the originals and call them mindless button mashers without trying them in the first place, I love the 2018 game, but if santa monica wants ragnarok to be the norse saga's swanson, maybe even the whole franchise's swansong, they need to make a giant callback to the originals, so yeah, it needs to change and be a game made for the true fans
I know right. Before playing the new game I haven’t played a god of war game before so I played every single one before I even looked at the new one and it was the best gaming experience of my life.
Jumping can't be in the game because of the no camera cuts. U played a clip earlier where you were on the ship and when u walked to the edge of the thing u pressed o to grab atreus to bring him down to the lower level. If u could jump, that scene couldn't happen cause u could jump over the ledge breaking the immersion of that part they set in place. So for no jumping there has to be some sacrifices. The continuous camera being one of them. If I'm wrong someone correct me
Atreaus can take a punch from balder but he can't jump down a ledge. And if they want to add moments like this they can do it in the cutscenes as this game has plenty of cutscenes.
I promised myself a challenge that i best god of war on the highest difficulty without dying and got more frustrated at walking slowly until to the troll fight to finally be able to run than dying at 80% through the Game (Sorry for my bad English)
for me the story of gow 2018 is something that even an amateur writer can write giving the context of previous games! what we needed the most was something that could shock us and we didn't expect but makes sense with the lore. i wanted change sure but the way they went with that change is just painful to see. yeah i for one knew kratos would have a different life and there would be some people that hold grudges against him and would drag him into chaos again duh! but he got married and have a kid?? like what? how could he forgive himself? and lets not forget that 2018 totally forgot about kratos's wife and daughter. like seriously we need david jaffe back. here from the mayo's channel btw
You can say the same for every other god of war. But at least 2018 had characters with personality. Old god of war. So dull. Athena has no emotion or development. Zeus is bad for no reason. Baldr actually has a backstory
"Hkw can kratos forgive himself " Did....did you not see the cheesy hope message and hug scene in god of war 3? Might wanna....take off those rose tented nostalgia goggles bud
10:58 Really? C'mon now, that's bullshit. He 100% went in with expectations. He contradicts himself by bringing up over-the-shoulder camera issues he has with the new GOW game. He DEFINITELY saw that coming beforehand. He was never going to like the game. You're telling me, that if another DOOM sequel is coming out, he isn't going to be looking up trailers and gameplay videos constantly? No way dude.
Yes it does! I was playing Horizon 2 and instead of pumping up stats all the time I just switched to easy mode. Hope GOW Ragnarok simplifies/removes this constant need to pump up stats, which will make the story more immersive. Hope Santa Monica listens!
The thing i love bout Mayo is that he's a good reviewer and you can just say that he's being unbiased and presenting us his honest opinion in every field of the game(be it gameplay,visual presentation, story, etc). Maybe watch some of his other reviews on games like titanfall 2 or dying light to understand what I'm saying. Another thing special about Mayo and his videos is that he sure gets a lot of negative comments but he never really gets offended by it. His videos are kinda addictive to watch for me. I'm sure he's my fav game reviewer or whatever now lol Apologising for the grammatical mistakes i made
Beating give me god of war with deaths vow armor is unnecessarily painful. At least give us the option to transmog if im gonna be stuck with the rpg stats.
I loved this. Just two chill dudes talking about a game. respectfully and reasonably debating each other with a critical lens and having fun along the way. All debates should be like this
if only politics were this way lol
Yeah same, I’m glad Mayo came on Kuba’s podcast.
I understand his video a lot more
@@tankbusterJ agreed then no war an senseless death on both sides
Damn I came here fully expecting to disagree with Mayo and hate everything he said based on his part one video. But man, dude articulated himself well and made some great points. Thank you guys for making this video happen
That's awesome to hear man! Hopefully him and I will talk again when the game comes out
Honestly I agreed with mayo on everything minus Atreus I wanted to love the new god of war it looked awesome but ended up a little disappointed but I do think the combat is fun
@@Nutty1221 the combat is fun when you play the fun way
How could you disagree with mayo? Sure i absolutly love gow2018 but compared to the old ones the 2018 is a brainless gameplay movie. 2018 lives by his perfect athmosphere and setting.
@@debashisprasadjena5075 what’s the fun way?
Was awesome to listen
Thanks for having a calm and reasonable discussion
Kuba: You seem like a calm and reasonable person, are you a calm and reasonable person?
Mayo: *awkwardly* I guess….
Lol
Mayo’s interest in design comes from his history in fighting/arcade games. Arcade games are “short” but have really complex in-depth interactive systems which multiply your score, give damage bonuses, or even give you an upper hand in a fighting game.
The downside of RPG elements is it allows players to brute force their way through bosses without learning patterns or mastering combat systems. Even the souls genre has this issue.
Simply put, Mayo is upset that the new GOW replaces arcade mechanics with RPG ones. Great discussion.
thats a good way to describe it honestly
You two seems like a calm and reasonable persons. Like it.
this is such a good video, i love your chemistry with mayo and i hope you collab with him way more
I hoping he'll be down to talk again after ragnnarok comes out
@@KaptainKuba the god of typos strikes again
@@uwasu521 lol he never disappoints
I want to apologize to Mayo too. Now understanding the first video was not made in the same time frame, explaining some tone shifts. You brought some very good points and flaws in the vid, that I do agreed with. Certain things and mechanics should change how the previously were, like climbing. Everyone did kind of over reacted, we should definitely respect everyones opinion. Nice to know you do respect and get why people love the game, and always nice to know you like the game too. I watched part 2, and it's a good watch, to give more context :)
I really didn’t like his review. Cuz it *felt* like he never gave the game a chance, now I know he does btw, and he talked really condescending which annoyed me a bit. But now I have found way more respect for him because that’s not here anymore and it’s way nicer to listen to and watch
At about 17:50 I have to agree with mayo extremely. The enemies are so spread out with a camera that can only see in front and half of them enemies are behind, forces you to move into a position in which all enemies are in front a.e keeping a wall to your back. When you get to close your camera zooms in and there in lies your problem!
This is something the Arkham games did well imo, while most of the time the camera is over the shoulder same as in God of War, during combat the camera zooms out so that you can see what most if not all of your enemies are doing.
Well they do give you a way to know where the enemies are by giving you arrows showing when they're attacking so it's not a problem
@@Blue-Apple-fc9eo literally every enemy? If a enemy attacks with a melee attack it shines red, if it's a ranged attack it shines purple, not to mention Atreus shouts when an enemy Is attacking behind you so you have like multiple ways to dodge
@@redninja3056 this is true. I play in immersive so I have my complete hud and indicators off for a harder/better experience. Even then Atreus and mimir definitely let you know when someone’s behind you or about to attack but I just get left with him constantly screaming “BEHIND YOU” lol. Not terrible but could be better
@@redninja3056 but they can improve it. I have an idea where the camera is over the shoulder but the camera can be manually fixed a little far away according to the player's comfort zone and they can add a lock on. In this way people like mayo and the people who like an immersive camera angle both can be satisfied.
I loved that you brought up ghost of sparta, during that whole conversation about the shift in krato’s personality and how it isn’t explained, all i was thinking about was ghost of sparta’s story
58:30 This whole segment just blew my mind and is totally true. Great podcast man as usual wow how does this channel not have more subs
I'm so glad you enjoy my content ❤️
@@KaptainKuba seriously man your ability to come up with compelling discussions on games is great. Dont limit your discussions to god of war (as much as i love the franchise) your discussions would do great with the general gaming industry. Especially with the high profile guests you have had. Arguments like this need to be seen by the developers. From one Canadian to another keep up the great work
This was great. I only recently starting watching your videos and you both handled this talk very well. Like under the mayo said at the end, this was handled very objectively without getting at each other at a personal level, and it speaks to both of their characters. I would gladly watch another one of these with Mayo!
I think Mayo himself has also got a lesson from the feedbacks of this talk that: if you want your audience to hear out and understand what you're saying and if you want your words to have a useful/constructive impact on people, avoid talking in a way like you're shiting on the subject.
JUST BE A CALM AND REASONABLE PERSON and people will listen to you.
Well said ❤️
He is a good critique but he is kind of a jerk when it comes to present it calmly but I like it.
He learned absolutely nothing from this. He really is a contrarian douchebag. He's TERRIBLE at taking criticism.
*as for Mayo's critique of not being able to see enemies behind you.. That's the point you're supposed stay on guard & constantly moving if you stand still you'll die*
that's is not the only issue
the issue he's pointing out is having less option for combat mechanics
juggling the enemy on air with 3-4 attack indicators the only option is to dodge
He also for some reason complains about Atreus yelling "Behind you!" (Mimir does that as well) which is really odd.
Bcs when im too invested on attacking, I forget about the indicators therefore from them yelling "behind me", snaps me out of it and I dogde.
@@Mikkeru dude if you repeatedly play the game but for me who always want to master the combat system in the highest difficulties it's start to get annoying in the 5-6 hours none stop yelling
@@daryllfavortio6944
*Maybe for you*
*But obviously not everyone shares that opinion*
I disagree with Mayo on this camera critique. I played the whole game without indicators/a hud on GMGOW, and relied on Atreus/Mimir. It helps so much with immersion and you have to be strategic about how you approach your enemies. Idk just my 2 cents.
Honestly really appreciate the two of you coming together to talk about the game and hash out your differences of opinion.
I absolutely agree with the RPG system. After putting on a set of fully upgraded Valkyrie armor and all the best enchantments in the game and on God of War difficulty, Sigrun became a joke. She went from kicking my ass for hours to me defeating her first try.
This is why the Zeus set is my favorite armor in the game. It makes it so that enemies don't take forever to kill, but also has you take a lot more damage and almost everything kills you in one hit on God of War difficulty.
yes but once you are able to beat her you already know what to do. the armor may have helped but it is also down to your skill. but yeah I never really sweated for the best armor. just used the stuff that I found along the story. hardest valkery was the one in the small room. she kicked my ass over and over for like 14hrs split in 2 days. I never really abused the magic stuff since mine were shit so I had to be smart about my timing and where I was dodging and such. only reason I wanted to kill sigrun was for that axe thing that made my axe fly really fast and really far without stopping. it was fun to through around. sigrun was fun to fight cause I had the knowledge of all the other valkerys moves to use for her patterns. was a cool combat kinda reward to incorporate. she still put me in the dirt for hours tho.
Plus she probably didn’t just spam the bloody command grabs
I hate they added those
Well what you described is a typical RPG sspect like yes if you are willing to sacrifice that much time to grind or not grind but farm materials to level up your armor to max stats and litteraly destroy that bitch Sigrun is that level satisfaction at least for me
I agree with mayo's incentives argument. I wanna be rewarded for playing smart and having skill and all that that just makes the combat feel so much more rewarding and satisfying knowing that your getting better at the game and the game will reward u for your efforts
This is mayos strongest argument by far. Doesnt mean that the combat in 2018 is 10% as bad as mayo said, but I like being rewarded for playing smart/well outside of cool factor/fun
@@720pchannel fax
If they add a feature that you could adjust the camera zooming it out it would feal like the old title's would be nice to have in Ragnarok
I may completely disagree with everything he said but I respect the way this conversation went.
You disagree with everything but you pointed out zero reasons why , sounds absurd to me , that's usually the ,, fanboy ,, mindset , oh I disagree but I can't explain a single reason why .
@@saula8948 he's just giving his opinion stop making a big deal of it. If anything your sounding like the Fanboy now.
@@nik774 No I'm not if you disagree give an example of why otherwise it sounds empty , I am not a fanboy of either but as a person who values logic and reason if all you do is say nothing but complain then you have no argument and people will not take you seriously at all .
@@saula8948 He should give examples only if he was presenting his disagreement as a factual statement or he's willing to participate in a debate with which he obviously didn't do instead he presented it as a personal opinion that shouldn't be taken seriously. If I say "I despise All MCU movies" I don't need to give examples why I despise it unless I'm saying all MCU movies are objectively trash.
@@nik774 So his comment shouldn't be taken seriously ? I understand perfectly , thanks for the clarification .
I don't see GOW4 as a looter shooter I see it as a stasher slasher
I am wondering how they show Ragnarok like kratos and Atreus fighting.
In background giants marching and surtr,fenrir everyone fighting with GOW 2018 camera angle.
If it was fixed like old it provide a cinematic experience like God of war 3
I guess they could go like God of war three and push back the camera to show what’s happening in the background
@@elviraweekes3906 let's hope ♥️
if they first person it T_T i hope not
The camera in God of War (2018) did push back quite a far bit during that final fight with Baldur so we could see Thamur.
Great seeing you guys just talk and chill and I feel like you really understand each other more now even if you still disagree which is fine.
I haven't finished the video, but I wanted to write this because I'm currently at this part:
You guys say that MGS5 has no punishment for not using stealth but it kinda does.
Your "punishment" is having to deal with all of the enemies coming at you and them calling in backup like choppers and stuff. It's a lot easier to get stuff done when you're not being hunted.
Also the game has a sort of adaptive difficulty mechanic where if you use certain tactics too often the game will adapt. So say if you headshot alot of enemies with a sniper rifle all the time, then more enemies will start wearing helmets. So if you go in guns blazing a lot you'll see more enemies in body armor.
If you sneak around a lot you'll see mines and claymores and stuff in certain areas. You might see more searchlights and cameras around.
The incentive to play stealth is there, but it also attempts to punish you a bit for playing stealth.
You can also send squads on side missions in the background to sort of get around this.
So for example you could send a squad to intercept a shipment of helmets. Which would prevent them from adapting to your headshotting, but maybe by doing so you had to trade out a different mission with its own benefit.
Sure it could be better, but I feel like MGS5 was really not a good example to support your point.
Damn I loved this how u guys dissected the game from head to toe. I wasnt really thinking about this stuff until I found ur channel and Mayos points are really good. Now im just thinking how much are Santa Monica really gonna change for Ragnarok. Im a little worried not much is gonna change but im hoping and praying they have been given the freedom to innovate and improve the systems and fill in the missteps of GOW 2018
To @Under The Mayo real quick: I feel like I gotta apologize for thinking you already hated it from before it came out. :D
I think it would be nice if as soon as enemies show up, the camera zooms out a little, then they would keep the “emotional” side of the game and have combat smoother.
That’s how the Batman games worked
As I thought and pointed out in my comment to your reaction video, Mayo stayed humble. plus, he addressed his critic video.
However, kudos to you as well for going to a friendly approach and not sparking a channel war.
I like how Mayo makes his points better here. When the dude just talks normally, it's much more clear what he's trying to get across
Yeah, He said that he didn't expect many people to see his video in the first place and that the whole thing was just expressing himself only in the form of a TH-cam video, that's why he didn't express it better with his criticism video.
Great interview. I would agree that jumping should come back to the next game.
It wont
The camera in the old god of wars were cinematic it fit the game perfectly and it gave you a great look at the world
Why did this come up on y recommend when there 26 hours left
TH-cam be like:Pod of cast is coming
its that good
So you can put the reminder on
🤣🤦🏽♂️facts we just gotta wait 3 more hours
Mayo controlled the entire cast
The problem of God of war 2018 and ragnarok is that you dont feel like a god any more, you just feel like a strong man!!!
I appreciate that you two can sit and talk about this like adults, we need more gamers and tubers like this.
But I will say, him going up against the wall and the camera going to shit really seemed like he was fishing for a shit camera angle. I've beat the game maybe 3 times, one of them a platinum and not once did I come across that angle problem.
I love player-controlled cameras. Having a spatial map in your mind of an environment, enemy positions and then executing camera movement to monitor the environment during combat is something I just enjoy.
I never once had a fleeting thought about the camera “issues” in God of War because it didn’t bother me that I couldn’t see enemies behind me because I found it fun to adapt my play style to it. That’s just me.
What mayo said about sekiro is wrong, you can attack in a direction the camera is not facing if you are not locked on. You can even change the direction mid attack with the left stick. It would be great if we could do it in God of War tho.
Mayo’s take on Sekiro isn’t really trustworthy in general.
Yeah I should have gone with another example. I don't even remember Sekiro anymore. Maybe just Dark Souls?
@@underthemayo Nah all of them let you attack in a direction with the left stick independent from the camera position, as long as you're not locked on. Ds2 doesn't let you change direction mid attack though. God of War definetly doesn't let you and would be great if they changed it. It would make getting surrounded not so bad.
PS. Big fan btw Mayo, glad you responded.
@@metallicawiz33 Thanks. I guess what I'm more referring to is the one v one fights. Bosses, big guys. It's very "attack directly in front of you". GOW 2018's combat feels like that.
@@underthemayo Yeah and its like that the whole game. I would like the camera to be pulled back abit or just give us an fov slider, and also make Kratos's movement independent from the camera while not locked on making easier to change targets mid combat. That would make unlocked combat useful is some situations while still having the 1v1 duel feel other times. I think most of your ideas for improvemts are great and hope alot make it in.
Resource System for GoW Ragnarok Proposal: Brutal Kills give Rage, Using Rage procedrually fills Health when active and attacking. The Harder the Combo in not Rage the more rage-o-meter you get and the harder the attack combo in Rage the more Health you get. You gain Magic through filling your Rage bar past its Limit for your Heavy Runic Attacks, while the Light ones become button combos that you have to get through mini Challenges like upgrades in Doom. Atreus has a no magic mode where he shoots normal arrwos and arrows that use Magic when empowered cost Magic-o-meter.
Do these resources upgrade your weapons and abilities(from, say, the inventory screen)?
No , you collect your upgrades through progressing the story and sidequests
Really like this video, love when people debate about these games
Interesting Podcast, I enjoyed it. Thank you guys.
Now about that Camera, you can have it over the shoulder but when a fight area starts you can move it back a bit to make you see the room better kinda like DMC5 camera, but do not move it back that far because that camera serves the DMC5 combat but it does not serve GOW 2018 to move it that far.
great video and it's nice to see a friendly conversation
DMC 5 Proves that it still can be done today like with the camera.
Sure you can still move it but the camera pans out whenever there's a combat encounters with multiple enemies and bosses.
Played gow 1,2 and 2018, sadly i haven't played gow 3 yet but i enjoyed 2018 combat system the most, theres plenty combos u can do if you actually experience with it and im not talkin about braking game combos
Can you play them on ps4? Via PSNow or some? And do they have a lot of nudity? And if yes, can you turn it off. I know 3 has Persephone and there’s a bathhouse in the beginning of 2 but I’d there any in Ascension or something?
@@kyellverdonschot9922 yes in ascension you have and in 2 you can ignore it
@@lightmohamed5700 oh okay
Something that would fix the camera is this little feature that Roblox of all games has. But games like Skyrim use it too. In Roblox it’s called shift lock, basically in third person you camera moves with the character so you don’t also need to move the camera. In Skyrim when you are in third person you don’t need to move the camera it just turns with your charcter. That system has its ups and downs but the way Roblox does it is that you can toggle it on and off. If they just dedicated a button to toggle on and off shift lock then it wouldn’t be a problem. I’m using the term shift lock knowing it doesn’t make sense bc on pc for Roblox the button you use to toggle this is shift but they could just call it action/combat camera or something.
*I just don't see what Mayo sees when he talks about Atrues..*
To me he is: in the beginning, pretty cute, in *that* part of the game, a shithead, and during the end and after, a badass
I didn't even play the game and I was annoyed by him just by watching other people play the game.
@@SauciestPrince6 bro atreus is what made me put down ragnarok, i just couldnt deal with him in midgame, so lame and cringe and badly written..m
Both are making great points. Super respectful, loved the video 🤟🏽
In regards to the fixed camera vs player controlled camera, I just replayed God of War 3 and it frustrated the hell out of me that I couldn't target a specific enemy, when trying to grapple you couldn't really grab a specific one, just whichever one the game decided
are you a casual GOW player?
the closest enemy to you
don't get frustrated learn the mechanic
@@daryllfavortio6944 it's not that simple, the main problem I had was when there were the flying enemies and a gorgon or minotaur. No matter what I did I would grapple the bigger enemy 99% of the time, even if I was facing away
@@collinowen5758 this is more advance mechanic in the GOW prequel is the ( enemies placement ) you need to use in the higher difficulties
utilizing your movement when your enemies follows you weather it's a flying or ground enemy is a mechanic specially in the challenge
if you back padle to much the enemies will bundle
Seems like a skill issue to me. I never had this problem at all.
@@baconkiller4789 It was definitely a game issue
my biggest thing is i liked the old voice actor so much more. theres just something so iconic from the cutscenes and everything..
I really wished he stayed. Carson can really pull off a more subdued Kratos as proven from the previous games and other roles.
Atreus jumping into the light of Alfheim wouldn’t age him up, his aging would slow as the world around him moved forward.
When i was playing i didnt use magic much until later playthroughs because i came from games like resident evil where you have finite resources, and then the old rpg habit from final fantasy of hoarding your potions and ethers for when you really need it
Lol it looks like more than half of this comment section didn't even watch the podcast and is once again repeating all the misunderstandings people have about both Mayo's and Kuba's takes on God of War 2018, it's hillarious to see.
They are the ones being blind haters actually and its ironic considering that they call Mayo a blind hater.
I know a lot of people have do not like that you can’t jump in God of war Ragnarok but the thing is if they add jumping the need to add double jumping and they would need to Make new animations for air combat and runic and would have to create some thing so it would make sense to why Kratos is able to stay in the air while fighting and being able to double jump I would love it if they added double jumping but it would be very tedious to do it
If they add something story related to For making Kratos be able to double jump and doing stuff that would not make sense in the lore I am all for it cool idea that you can rip out the heart of enemies to gain health tell Santa Monica Studio to do that
@@elviraweekes3906 double jumping needs a story? I disagree
They are going with a more realistic approach to it now unlike the other God of war games like in the lore it would no make no sense why Kratos would be able to jump on the air I guess God of war three gave a reason why because they added the wings so if they want to add double jumping they would have to think of something a reason why Kratos is able to do this
they have a F tons of money in sales that is not a issue
They could do a last second Change and add a double jump and reveal that Kratos had the wings all along but just didn’t use them so it is completely possibly
Hey ag fahrenheit wants to do a theory video with jon ford. Im sure he would do one with you also.
At the end of the day,everything's subjective
Hey @kaptain kuba and @Under The Mayo , thanks for video. I watched KK's reaction to UTM's video and I got to be honest didn't like UTM that much. I have a whole new respect for you now Under The Mayo! I see ya and I actually agree with some of your points now that I have more context. Thank you guys for this! it was needed.
Check out my Challenge Matters video. It goes into more of what I generally push for on my channel. This podcast was a pleasure to do!
Thanks for Cast.
Mayo got a lot points, and I could not complain.
Came here for Mayo.
Advice for Kuba the interviewer : let the person finish talking, research more, articulate and give examples, and remove your emotions from games as it will only get in the way of researching games better
@@Broken_Lobo Exactly he doesnt even do research stop praising mayo he isnt even that good
Honestly ripping the heart as the health system could be sick, the idea is very similar to Metal gear Rising for me lol
Electrolytes
Kuba, I love you man, and love your videos, I feel like you really understand the core heart of God of war. Please next time, don't let these guys who come to criticise God of war, intellectually bully you, cause I felt like that really happened in this video and I got kinda pissed at times. Maybe just the way I saw it. Really enjoy your videos and will continue to support you mate. "Go forth, in the name, of Ragnarok".
I think they should fix the camera by having it around the height of the Arkham games camera. That way the you can see what's going on around you.
I’d say that you should leave the collecting armors but make it mean more. Maybe we find an enemy with the armor on and we kill them and rip it off their body. Maybe it’s a piece we are putting together for Brok and Sindri again. Don’t give them boring buffs either and no rarities. I hate having green armor or blue armor and weak things when I’m end game or too many in the way.
Kratos was not one dimensional in god of war 2. The whole reason he was angry in the beginning was because, they didn’t take the nightmares away, they wouldn’t let him kill himself, and they tricked him into killing his own mother much like ares did, and they stole his brother away and chained him up who died while fighting Thanatos so ofc he was angry. Then on top of that Zeus kills kratos and his whole army, and then later his entire city. Did everyone forget about the last spartan and the kraken scene? Not to mention Kratos didn’t yell at people and had no intention of killing anybody until they decided they wanted to kill him or stop him from his mission. He had no problem letting Theseus, Perseus, or the sisters of fate, live. But it was them who decided to attack him. It wasn’t till god of war 3 where he became deranged and it made sense in that game. But even in that game he wasn’t one dimensional, he was just at the breaking point and didn’t learn to forgive himself until the end of the game while fighting Zeus.
This really cleared up a lot of things. When I first saw his review I was just so confused on how someone could hate the game that much but I understand where’s he’s coming from even tho I don’t agree with much of what he said. But when he clarified most of his criticism were nitpicks that don’t ruin the game but it just needs be improved then I saw him different and appreciated his review. Well at least part 2 of the review the first one was just kinda of a rant to me since I didn’t agree with what he was saying.
Edit: Kaptain Kuba the goat for hearting my comment. Also I edited my comment cause my grammar was horrible since I wrote it really fast 😂
Second Edit: Bruh it took away the heart cause I edited my comment 🤦♂️ p a i n
yep also loved how he titled it ‘why god of war was ruined’
I’m in the opposite camp of Kuba once the blades were unlocked the axe became an extra weapon while the blades were my main.
34:46 One real quick thing about metal gear v, (assuming that’s phantom pain), one of the things going stealth vs going in guns blazing rewarded you with was better base personnel. If you’re stealthier it’d much easier to ~~kidnap~~ recruit talented people, which levels up your base much faster.
I sort of dislikes that myself since it felt like, to me, it disincentivized actual up front combat, but MGSV Phantom Pain was my first MGS so…I’m not a good judge haha.
I was going to make the same point but come to think about it, the game actually rewards "non-lethal" instead of stealth. You can technically go guns blazing and still get the personnel as long as you use stun/sleep guns. But anyways the game does punish you for not doing stealth in the early game since you don't (yet) have the health pool, superhuman mobility, superior firepower or any form of quick health regen to play the shooter game. You wanna try dancing with Quiet early game instead of playing hide and seek? You'll get two shot or one shot.
But that changes as you progress. The game gives you heavy armor later for occasions where you need to go gun blazing. Such as the save Quiet mission where you need to kill hords of enemy tanks and armored vehicles. The final boss "Sahelanthropus" is also a shooter boss that needs nothing less than an arsenal filled with heavy weapons like rocket launcher and grenade launcher to take down. You can not "stealth" these and you don't get punished for gunning.
@@physxme Those two boss fights are the exceptions however. And while you can go guns blazing with the rubber bullet rifles or tranquilizer guns, you can’t really do that guns blazing because they wake up a lot easier, so you’re sort of still punished for it imo.
The way to fix the armor issue if they want you to be able to change/upgrade armor why don’t they just have you have one of 2 armors that you can upgrade throughout your playthrough maybe one based on strength and one based on defense depending on your play style
this has been a long time coming i've been waiting for this collab
I believe that yes it needs to be fixed. But not in the way most people think. Just a couple more weapons. And making weapon specific enemies. Like how in the early part of 2018 your axe doesn’t work against the ice guys. Later on if you power up enough it does, and that should be fixed.
And for the runic spells, having 2 on a trigger cool down to be used whenever, keep it as is. Just add all the others as special combo finishers.
The cueing system. Watch Joseph Anderson’s video on it. That is a very game breaking issue especially with revenants.
And finally…make enchantments more generalized, upgradable and maybe even combinable like how new game plus does with the burn, poison and frost resistance enchants.
Aside from that it’s great. I wouldn’t even mind having to relearn the tech tree entirely again, like a reset like they do in every game.
Great vid!
I think alot of people misunderstood Mayo intentionally. Selling points is necessary for his point to get across about his opinion, if he used less provocative clips to showcase the problems, people would go "Well thats not that bad.", when its obvious that he means it by when its at its worst, wich is the whole point about critizing it.
My main gripe about this game was the climbing mechanics, and the crawling through narrow spaces constantly just for the game to load before you made it to the new area too fast
ye no shit since they wanted to do no cut camera
what bothers me about the narrative of gow 2018 is that Kratos seems to be doing everything because he has to, but he doesn't want to be there or doesn't care
My issue is that Kratos seems to regress in the lessons he learned or already was in the Greek saga. Like Kratos was already a father and a husband who was really loving and enthusiastic about them, like how he made a flute for his daughter Calliope and found peace with Lysrandra who was one of the few women to stand up to him. Kratos had already learned about the destructive nature of vengeance in the conclusion of GOW3 and to have the power to forgive himself and move on from his tragedy.
Has he played a souls game? Because you do not need to turn the camera to attack.
He’s Kaptain Kanada now!
I was just now thinking more about gow2018 and the thing that pisses me off is the armor, like for example i love the og armor kratos is wearing in the begining of the game in gow2018 but the game forces me to put on a higher level armor. They could fix this like spiderman 2018 remember the level system in spiderman ps4? You can just make the leveling system into gaining skills and not into gaining them in armor peices and also not giving the enimies any leveling system and you are the only one with the leveling system and you wont be too op because the only thing giving you streangth is the skills you buy with the leveling and not because of your level also i really want the runes to be gone the cooldown is too fast and it takes the challenge away.
Nothing like a chill constructive take from both sides. I miss when the rest of the world had this level of critical thought.
I just think Mayo shot himself in the foot when putting God of War 4 on such a high / specific expectation.
I have done that myself with movies, shows and such. And you can almost never come back from that & you just remain salty through the whole thing.
Like in his review, he intentionally made God of War 4 combat system sound so boring bcs he cant get over the fact that it changed so much.
And before even playing the game, he hated Atreus therefore held to that through out the whole game.
Game Breaker God would prove him wrong.
I know right he just couldn’t let go of the old game and constantly compared them to one another while playing which made him care less and less every minute.
@@rickyrackey7930 How many people play like him? Very few so he is a bad example in this regard.
@@mamory3791 I just think Mayo nitpicks way too hard to make Doom Eternal look good in comparasion. Same with Ultrakill
@@rickyrackey7930 He does indeed nitpick way to much. Like about stuff that most people won't care about but i have watched his videos about God of war twice and finished GOW 4 three times as well as the old games and i have to say that i do agree with alot of the points he had. It feels like they wanted to focus on giving us a story with cliche rpg gameplay on the side. While the older games focused on both but slightly on gameplay more than the story. It wasn't perfect by any means but the older games did have a deeper combat mechanics imo.
Lets make the upcoming God of war game accessible to everyone. If you are keeping your combo meter high then you get loot of higher rarity .
I waited for this video ever since the reaction video. Great video guys. Now give me the random Exp 😁😁🤪😂
I hope SantaMonica see this podofcast because there is a looooooot of points that im agree with. Man, the camera issue is huge point to fix, because me too i have a big issue with it. Beside that, the analysis of the kratos caracter is deep. As the Mayor said, they should put something that motive kratos because he is not interesting of all of that. Thanks a lot both of you.
no
I feel that some of the problems with combat are mitigated when playing GMGOW on NG+. You will need to think out your runics and switch weapons to defeat the valkyries. Nevertheless someone who is not impressed enough with the combat during the main story will most likely never get to that point in the game.
You should check out the last half hour or so of Joseph Anderson's video. It highlights how GMGOW actually exposes how inconsistent/numbers-driven the games combat is.
I have an issue that everyone seems to only point towards the Valkyries as the point of actual challenge. A piece of OPTIONAL content in a 30-hour game that is predominantly about combat that actually requires skill is not good game design.
I think a good compromise in camera presentation can be sought in something like Devil May Cry 5. It's camera is zoomed out a bit more than GOW 2018. Not only that, but old school GOW and DMC both have fixed camera angles in common so it also shows that games defined by their fixed cameras can do well---if not better---if that aspect is taken out while still retaining the somewhat zoomed out look (RE2 is another example). DMC 5 is like a nice in-between.
The great thing about Capcom games is that enemies will not attack you when they are fully off the camera. They will move into the camera view first before attacking.
Here's my take on the whole grounded idea. This is a game series about Gods and Monsters and centaurs and whatever there's nothing grounded about any of that. This is a game where you haven't asked that can freeze people on contact that you can throw miles away and call to your hand just by opening up your palm. Kratos juggling someone in the air for 15 seconds is not the craziest thing that he would be doing in God of War 4 let alone Ragnarok or any of these other games.
His comparison of ghost of Tsushima and sekiro was really dumb. The only difference is that in got the camera is more zoomed out. In sekiro you can still attack to your right by using the left stick gow 2018 is totally different because there you have to move your camera to change where you attack.
I did myself a disservice by reading the premiere chat along with this video. Soo many people getting defensive and throwing insults at mayo.
Well mayo did say that people who liked New god of war were "tricked into liking it"
@@frogglen6350 So? That doesn't justify getting in defensive and throwing insults
@@hermonymusofsparta
Idk. Seems fair to me. You give mayo a pass because you are biased
Amazing video, so much i wish i could add that just wouldn’t realistically fit in one comment but nonetheless my hype for Ragnarok is unreal
IMO Sony just doesn't care about gameplay. They just play it as safe possible, which usually means, familiar. boring, and repetitive.
Exactly. Their only game with gameplay I really love is Ghost of Tsushima
games or movies?
So that's why the old gow games play the exact same....
This was recommended to me 26 hours before
W TH-camr bruh I never found a TH-camr this interested in gow
I would like to have a cooldown that becomes higher then more you get hit based on how Much health you loose to the hits
The only thing i don't like about GOW 2018 is that a lot of the people who played the game haven't even touched the originals and then go rambling about how gow 2018 is the holy grail of gaming, they get GOW 2018 related tatoos and everything, before knowing where you're headed you gotta know where you come from, i can assure you 85 percent of the momentum the game has earned prior to release was due to the succes of the originals but now these so called fans insult the originals and call them mindless button mashers without trying them in the first place, I love the 2018 game, but if santa monica wants ragnarok to be the norse saga's swanson, maybe even the whole franchise's swansong, they need to make a giant callback to the originals, so yeah, it needs to change and be a game made for the true fans
I know right. Before playing the new game I haven’t played a god of war game before so I played every single one before I even looked at the new one and it was the best gaming experience of my life.
I am og gow fan and I like new gow it’s even my second fav gow after 2
@@Sammy123ABC Yeah, playing the originals enhances the experience so much
True most people don't even know gow 2 some bullshit
@@bloodmage81 fr people should at least be aware of the old games and either play them or at the very least watch a video.
at 22:00 you talk about attacking in any direction, you can do that in dark souls and elden ring, just dont use the lock on
Jumping can't be in the game because of the no camera cuts. U played a clip earlier where you were on the ship and when u walked to the edge of the thing u pressed o to grab atreus to bring him down to the lower level. If u could jump, that scene couldn't happen cause u could jump over the ledge breaking the immersion of that part they set in place. So for no jumping there has to be some sacrifices. The continuous camera being one of them. If I'm wrong someone correct me
Atreaus can take a punch from balder but he can't jump down a ledge. And if they want to add moments like this they can do it in the cutscenes as this game has plenty of cutscenes.
On the camera one I have nothing to say.
I promised myself a challenge that i best god of war on the highest difficulty without dying and got more frustrated at walking slowly until to the troll fight to finally be able to run than dying at 80% through the Game
(Sorry for my bad English)
for me the story of gow 2018 is something that even an amateur writer can write giving the context of previous games! what we needed the most was something that could shock us and we didn't expect but makes sense with the lore. i wanted change sure but the way they went with that change is just painful to see. yeah i for one knew kratos would have a different life and there would be some people that hold grudges against him and would drag him into chaos again duh! but he got married and have a kid?? like what? how could he forgive himself? and lets not forget that 2018 totally forgot about kratos's wife and daughter. like seriously we need david jaffe back.
here from the mayo's channel btw
You can say the same for every other god of war. But at least 2018 had characters with personality. Old god of war. So dull. Athena has no emotion or development. Zeus is bad for no reason. Baldr actually has a backstory
"Hkw can kratos forgive himself "
Did....did you not see the cheesy hope message and hug scene in god of war 3? Might wanna....take off those rose tented nostalgia goggles bud
I think they should add the double jumping back to Kratos in new one and add a lot of things back
Not gonna lie , I don’t care whatsoever about combos and reward. I just wanna kill some shit as kratos
And play the amazing story.
Reward encourages interesting play. If you're not rewarded there is no reason to try harder.
10:58 Really? C'mon now, that's bullshit. He 100% went in with expectations. He contradicts himself by bringing up over-the-shoulder camera issues he has with the new GOW game. He DEFINITELY saw that coming beforehand. He was never going to like the game.
You're telling me, that if another DOOM sequel is coming out, he isn't going to be looking up trailers and gameplay videos constantly? No way dude.
I generally avoid trailers myself to not get spoiled on either the story or the gameplay which I prefer to learn through experience.
Yes it does! I was playing Horizon 2 and instead of pumping up stats all the time I just switched to easy mode.
Hope GOW Ragnarok simplifies/removes this constant need to pump up stats, which will make the story more immersive.
Hope Santa Monica listens!
Then you’re not just into Rpg in general Horizon is rpg managing stats is integral part of any rpg
@@sakuragi1062 probably you are right!
@@sakuragi1062 sometimes rpg is works wonderfully. Take example of prey and dishonored . Mayo even likes these two games.
@@sakuragi1062 If Horizon is an RPG, it's a poor excuse for one. Horizon is more so an action adventure game with some slight RPG elements
Can we stop pretending that any game that has slight state upgrades or grinding is an RPG, because that is not what it is
"There's no combo meter"
Permafrost and Immolation gauge: 😔
The thing i love bout Mayo is that he's a good reviewer and you can just say that he's being unbiased and presenting us his honest opinion in every field of the game(be it gameplay,visual presentation, story, etc). Maybe watch some of his other reviews on games like titanfall 2 or dying light to understand what I'm saying. Another thing special about Mayo and his videos is that he sure gets a lot of negative comments but he never really gets offended by it. His videos are kinda addictive to watch for me. I'm sure he's my fav game reviewer or whatever now lol
Apologising for the grammatical mistakes i made
Unbiased psshhh yeah 🤣
Yeah just wish he was more consistent with his reviews
@@salty3069 What's wrong?
@@redninja3056 Yeah agreed just watch part 2 on how God of war was ruined it's much better than his last one.
@@Blue-Apple-fc9eo I'm sure but if I watch it I'm sure to still see inconsistencies just like the last one
Beating give me god of war with deaths vow armor is unnecessarily painful. At least give us the option to transmog if im gonna be stuck with the rpg stats.
In my play throughs of the original God of war I only used magic when the weapons weren’t enough.